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(Some Dad)   Thoughtful, well written message about how non-parents don't know anything about parenting and should keep their filthy mouths shut   (themattwalshblog.com) divider line 537
    More: Amusing, Lacunar amnesia  
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12824 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Sep 2013 at 7:02 AM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



537 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-09-17 07:05:08 AM
if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion
 
2013-09-17 07:06:22 AM
Today's popcorn thread. Go!
 
2013-09-17 07:08:06 AM
Also, we're all forcefully made to contribute monetarily to children that aren't ours. So fark off, parents. YOU farking made the choice to make more people. In most cases, people you cannot afford.
 
2013-09-17 07:10:02 AM

robohobo: Also, we're all forcefully made to contribute monetarily to children that aren't ours. So fark off, parents. YOU farking made the choice to make more people. In most cases, people you cannot afford.


Are you not people!
 
2013-09-17 07:10:45 AM

Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion


Actually, no you don't. Deal with it.
 
2013-09-17 07:10:50 AM
I know well enough to learn from others mistakes
 
2013-09-17 07:11:46 AM
Maybe they'll make nice rooms for people with no kids to go and sit in places they can be (relatively) sure they won't have to hear children crying? I dunno. The blog post seems to be responding to a petty asshole by being a sanctimonious asshole.
 
2013-09-17 07:11:50 AM

Onkel Buck: I know well enough to learn from others mistakes


I highly doubt that.
 
2013-09-17 07:12:41 AM
If I have to tolerate your moronic offspring, then you have to tolerate my opinion

/if you don't like it, too bad
 
2013-09-17 07:12:52 AM
I am not a doctor, but you non-doctors will keep your whore mouths shut and listen to my medical opinions.
 
2013-09-17 07:12:55 AM

earthwirm: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

Actually, no you don't. Deal with it.


That's just a flat out lie. I get to have an opinion on anything. Now, the idea that a person doesn't get to express their opinion because you don't think it's justified or morally acceptable or whatever is fine, but I'm fairly sure that telling them their opinion is flat-out not allowed to exist is, at the very least, dickish.
 
2013-09-17 07:13:03 AM
There's enough to share.

teenthropologist.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-09-17 07:13:59 AM

smoky2010: If I have to tolerate your moronic offspring, then you have to tolerate my opinion

/if you don't like it, too bad


You sound like a moronic offspring...

Too bad.
 
2013-09-17 07:15:29 AM
I have a niece and nephew I take out sometimes and I've never had any problems with their throwing a tantrum or acting up. Take some parenting classes, get a nanny or go to the nearest PetSmart and buy a muzzle. Failing all of that, don't get all indignant when someone expresses annoyance at your shrieking spawn.No one should yell at you or anything but don't get all uppity if someone's natural reaction is to look annoyed in your direction.
 
2013-09-17 07:15:36 AM
This is gonna be good when the "my kids are angels" crowd shows up.
 
2013-09-17 07:15:50 AM

TalenLee: earthwirm: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

Actually, no you don't. Deal with it.

That's just a flat out lie. I get to have an opinion on anything. Now, the idea that a person doesn't get to express their opinion because you don't think it's justified or morally acceptable or whatever is fine, but I'm fairly sure that telling them their opinion is flat-out not allowed to exist is, at the very least, dickish.


No, it's called humanity. Instead of having a rude demeanor and making everyone days bad , you can choose to lighten the mood or help. Being a jack wagon doesn't and won't help.
 
2013-09-17 07:16:05 AM

TalenLee: earthwirm: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

Actually, no you don't. Deal with it.

That's just a flat out lie. I get to have an opinion on anything. Now, the idea that a person doesn't get to express their opinion because you don't think it's justified or morally acceptable or whatever is fine, but I'm fairly sure that telling them their opinion is flat-out not allowed to exist is, at the very least, dickish.


It isn't about your right to have an express an opinion, it has to do with class.  Children are a basic, fundamental, and generally harmless fact of life.  They always will be.  The only attitudes you change by sharing your anti-child views are in how the rest of the world perceives you, not children.

So keep it up.  The "no kids in restaurants!" crowd is a good, simple way to determine if someone is a classless douche, or not.
 
2013-09-17 07:16:25 AM

Mugato: I have a niece and nephew I take out sometimes and I've never had any problems with their throwing a tantrum or acting up. Take some parenting classes, get a nanny or go to the nearest PetSmart and buy a muzzle. Failing all of that, don't get all indignant when someone expresses annoyance at your shrieking spawn.No one should yell at you or anything but don't get all uppity if someone's natural reaction is to look annoyed in your direction.


Wow, you sound like a parenting expert.
 
2013-09-17 07:17:25 AM
The woman in the article was disciplining her child. Isn't that what most of you untouchables (childless and usually mateless people) want her to do?

/Stoke, stoke...
 
2013-09-17 07:17:31 AM
That's okay. I'll be over here enjoying lots of disposable income (post-saving and investing, of course) because I am not chained to one or more squalling proto-humans.


tee hee
 
2013-09-17 07:18:02 AM

Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion


smoky2010: If I have to tolerate your moronic offspring, then you have to tolerate my opinion

/if you don't like it, too bad


Yeap, you're entitled to your opinion. And if you air it instead of keeping it to yourself as is polite, be prepared for someone to air their opinion about you being a prick.
 
2013-09-17 07:18:21 AM
For the most part, most kids aren't that annoying, but there are that select few that you want to throttle with your bare hands, damned the consequences.
 
2013-09-17 07:19:05 AM

Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion


And just like all of your other opinions, it's not going to mean jack shiat to us.
 
2013-09-17 07:19:13 AM

Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion


You'd also better keep it to yourself if you know what's good for you.  Stepping on a parent's last nerve is never a good idea.
 
2013-09-17 07:19:30 AM
Huge huge difference between your toddler having a melt-down at the grocery store... I can feel sorry for that...
It's another reaction when you bring your f*ck trophy on the plane, to the restaurant, movies, at the bar, coffee-shop, bus, DMV, post office, etc..  and don't even bring some crayons/games/snacks  for the kid.  wtf?  Kids are pretty easy; just keep them entertained, fed, hydrated and it's good.

/changing that diaper on the cafe seat is horribly nasty too!
//No, actually, I don't want to see little Johnny/Suzy doing their first show-tune rendition while I'm eating or flying.
///really? you brought your kids to a R-rated movie?
 
2013-09-17 07:19:34 AM

GORDON: So keep it up.


Keep what up? I was complaining about the author's tone. I called the guy who complained an asshole. Is there some side I've signed up for that I don't understand?
 
2013-09-17 07:20:01 AM

robohobo: Also, we're all forcefully made to contribute monetarily to children that aren't ours. So fark off, parents. YOU farking made the choice to make more people. In most cases, people you cannot afford.


Almost caught me.....I wrote an entire reply before going "Wait a minute......"

Nicely played
 
2013-09-17 07:21:24 AM

earthwirm: TalenLee: earthwirm: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

Actually, no you don't. Deal with it.

That's just a flat out lie. I get to have an opinion on anything. Now, the idea that a person doesn't get to express their opinion because you don't think it's justified or morally acceptable or whatever is fine, but I'm fairly sure that telling them their opinion is flat-out not allowed to exist is, at the very least, dickish.

No, it's called humanity. Instead of having a rude demeanor and making everyone days bad , you can choose to lighten the mood or help. Being a jack wagon doesn't and won't help.


You seem to misunderstand me.

I'm not saying 'the opinion about children is A or B.'

I'm saying 'telling someone they're not allowed to have any opinion at all is dickish.'

And... I dunno, it sounds like two people are frustrated and upset with the circumstances, but only one of them is allowed to feel that way because they're a parent, the other is someone uninvolved in the child's life...?
 
2013-09-17 07:21:45 AM
Has a solution:

mimg.ugo.com

/mmmmm.... chicken popcorn
 
2013-09-17 07:21:55 AM
How about you parents quit expecting everyone to change the way they live to accommodate your little farking brat?

Oh. You don't like what's on TV because your snowflake may see it? Here's a news flash: You TV has a power button!
 
2013-09-17 07:21:59 AM
As a new father of twin girls, feel free to express any opinion you want.  I may laugh, I may tell you off.  Either way, we'll be good.

Do NOT, however, just walk up and start rubbing their cheek or stroking their hair.  I just about knocked a woman out last night for doing that.  Didn't say two words to me, just walks up and starts rubbing my youngest's head.  Creepy as hell.
 
GBB
2013-09-17 07:22:20 AM
www.redfoxtees.com
 
2013-09-17 07:22:46 AM

OtherLittleGuy: Has a solution:



/mmmmm.... chicken popcorn


I almost spit out my coffee to that post, good job!
 
2013-09-17 07:23:58 AM

buntz: robohobo: Also, we're all forcefully made to contribute monetarily to children that aren't ours. So fark off, parents. YOU farking made the choice to make more people. In most cases, people you cannot afford.

Almost caught me.....I wrote an entire reply before going "Wait a minute......"

Nicely played


No, no. Elaborate.
 
2013-09-17 07:24:14 AM
Something tells me that many of these parents who want you to "just deal with" their shrieking crotchfruit have a slightly different opinion on second-hand smoke.
 
2013-09-17 07:24:18 AM
Keep your filthy crotchfruit at home.
 
2013-09-17 07:25:04 AM

GORDON: TalenLee: earthwirm: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

Actually, no you don't. Deal with it.

That's just a flat out lie. I get to have an opinion on anything. Now, the idea that a person doesn't get to express their opinion because you don't think it's justified or morally acceptable or whatever is fine, but I'm fairly sure that telling them their opinion is flat-out not allowed to exist is, at the very least, dickish.

It isn't about your right to have an express an opinion, it has to do with class.  Children are a basic, fundamental, and generally harmless fact of life.  They always will be.


Exactly. And since we have little option but to endure and tolerate them, we have no real need to extend such niceties to their shiatty parents. In fact, we're doing society harm by not calling out shiatty parenting. It takes a village, my friend.
 
2013-09-17 07:25:30 AM

Bslim: Keep your filthy crotchfruit at home.


Keep your filthy untouchable ass at home.

Your move
 
2013-09-17 07:25:32 AM
FTA  "Parenting is the easiest thing in the world to have an opinion about, but the hardest thing in the world to do."

This
 
2013-09-17 07:25:35 AM

GORDON: I am not a doctor, but you non-doctors will keep your whore mouths shut and listen to my medical opinions.


I'm not a Parent but I've got the tools to be one. That counts right?
 
2013-09-17 07:25:54 AM
I have a cat, isn't that about the same?
 
2013-09-17 07:26:22 AM
i1025.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-17 07:27:00 AM

Falstaff: As a new father of twin girls, feel free to express any opinion you want.  I may laugh, I may tell you off.  Either way, we'll be good.

Do NOT, however, just walk up and start rubbing their cheek or stroking their hair.  I just about knocked a woman out last night for doing that.  Didn't say two words to me, just walks up and starts rubbing my youngest's head.  Creepy as hell.


The twins in public thing is one of the weirdest phenomenon ever. I can't say we ever had a "strangers touching" problem, but just everywhere, everyone has to know "do they run in your family" or "are they identical". It does lessen the older they get, though.
 
2013-09-17 07:27:40 AM

Falstaff: As a new father of twin girls, feel free to express any opinion you want.  I may laugh, I may tell you off.  Either way, we'll be good.

Do NOT, however, just walk up and start rubbing their cheek or stroking their hair.  I just about knocked a woman out last night for doing that.  Didn't say two words to me, just walks up and starts rubbing my youngest's head.  Creepy as hell.


Some folks, (mostly old women) think they have a god-given right to touch whomever they want with their nasty buzzard claws.
 
2013-09-17 07:27:51 AM

GoldSpider: Something tells me that many of these parents who want you to "just deal with" their shrieking crotchfruit have a slightly different opinion on second-hand smoke.


Yes, because children cause cancer.
 
2013-09-17 07:28:24 AM
I found it odd that the article (and those commenting) all seem to take it as given that children have 'meltdowns' and tantrums in public. This most certainly hasn't been my experience. I didn't see that behavior with my nieces and nephews, the children of my friends or even my own daughter.


No so CSB:

I do remember picking my daughter up from her mother when she was 3. Her mom told me that she had been having trouble all week with her throwing tantrums - throw herself on the floor, kick and scream until she gets her way. Having never seen any such behavior from my kid, I just nodded along and wondered when that started and why.

So my daughter and I stop at the grocery store on the way home and things are going well. She wants me to buy something (can't remember what) and the answer is no. And now I get to see the tantrum. Her face turns red, starts to cry/scream and goes to throw herself on the floor. I caught her by the arm, bent down nose to nose and growled "There will be none of that!". Tantrum over and it was the last time I ever saw that behavior from her.

/CSB

My two cents on parenting - be consistent. Never let them manipulate you, blackmail you, embarrass you or do anything else that makes you change the rules. I don't have a tenth of the problems with my daughter that her mother has and I honestly think it is because she knows the expectations are consistent and punishment will be swift and sure.
 
2013-09-17 07:28:32 AM

RayD8: [i1025.photobucket.com image 100x100]


jayhawk88: Falstaff: As a new father of twin girls, feel free to express any opinion you want.  I may laugh, I may tell you off.  Either way, we'll be good.

Do NOT, however, just walk up and start rubbing their cheek or stroking their hair.  I just about knocked a woman out last night for doing that.  Didn't say two words to me, just walks up and starts rubbing my youngest's head.  Creepy as hell.

The twins in public thing is one of the weirdest phenomenon ever. I can't say we ever had a "strangers touching" problem, but just everywhere, everyone has to know "do they run in your family" or "are they identical". It does lessen the older they get, though.


I raise you..
img.gawkerassets.com
 
2013-09-17 07:28:36 AM
There's no one to root for here.
 
2013-09-17 07:28:36 AM

Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion


No, you do not.
 
2013-09-17 07:28:59 AM

Bslim: Keep your filthy crotchfruit at home.


Yes, kids should never be allowed out into the world to learn and grow.
 
2013-09-17 07:29:24 AM
I guess this is the thread where inconsiderate parents justify being inconsiderate.
 
2013-09-17 07:30:24 AM

Angry_Monkey: I guess this is the thread where inconsiderate parents justify being inconsiderate.


No it is where inconsiderate people justify being inconsiderate.
 
2013-09-17 07:31:08 AM
 
2013-09-17 07:31:29 AM
 Crib midgets. Crotch fruit. Sex trophies. Crotch droppings. Crumb snatchers. Womb rats. Ankle biters. Snowflakes. Spawn.
Miss any?
 
2013-09-17 07:32:16 AM
I don't hate kids.

I hate your kids.
 
2013-09-17 07:32:17 AM

Cyclometh: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

No, you do not.


Yes she does.  She just should not be dickish about it if she chooses to share it with the parent.
 
2013-09-17 07:32:18 AM

jayhawk88: Falstaff: As a new father of twin girls, feel free to express any opinion you want.  I may laugh, I may tell you off.  Either way, we'll be good.

Do NOT, however, just walk up and start rubbing their cheek or stroking their hair.  I just about knocked a woman out last night for doing that.  Didn't say two words to me, just walks up and starts rubbing my youngest's head.  Creepy as hell.

The twins in public thing is one of the weirdest phenomenon ever. I can't say we ever had a "strangers touching" problem, but just everywhere, everyone has to know "do they run in your family" or "are they identical". It does lessen the older they get, though.


Maybe you guys can answer this. Do you dress your twins in identical outfits, if so, why? Is there a twin discount like buy one get one half off or something? And wouldn't that cause identity issues? Anyway, it's creepy, reminds me of The Shining.
 
2013-09-17 07:33:14 AM
Hey oblivious parents, if you don't want people telling you to shut your bratty kids up don't be shiatty parents. Or don't take your bratty kids out to restaurants but that also falls under the category of not being shiatty parents.

I guess don't be shiatty parents is the central theme to my rant.
 
2013-09-17 07:33:58 AM
Eh, the author makes some good points.   He's just switched teams, is all...plenty of entitled douchebags on both sides of the kids/no kids divide.
 
2013-09-17 07:34:51 AM
5k responses?  Jesus.

I don't know who this guy is but three cheers for the Christian breeder right, I guess.
 
2013-09-17 07:34:53 AM
But the minute that kid pops out of your insides, you're a freaking expert.
 
2013-09-17 07:35:27 AM

PunGent: Eh, the author makes some good points.   He's just switched teams, is all...plenty of entitled douchebags on both sides of the kids/no kids divide.


I have found the most crappy on both sides are usually only a few years past being a child themselves. YEMV
 
2013-09-17 07:35:27 AM

robohobo: RayD8: [i1025.photobucket.com image 100x100]

jayhawk88: Falstaff: As a new father of twin girls, feel free to express any opinion you want.  I may laugh, I may tell you off.  Either way, we'll be good.

Do NOT, however, just walk up and start rubbing their cheek or stroking their hair.  I just about knocked a woman out last night for doing that.  Didn't say two words to me, just walks up and starts rubbing my youngest's head.  Creepy as hell.

The twins in public thing is one of the weirdest phenomenon ever. I can't say we ever had a "strangers touching" problem, but just everywhere, everyone has to know "do they run in your family" or "are they identical". It does lessen the older they get, though.

I raise you..
[img.gawkerassets.com image 300x247]



I'm in img.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-17 07:35:47 AM
I have no full-time children but I have a few nieces and nephews that I see every once in a while and I've raised an extremely well-behaved dog, so I really think that my opinion on parenting has merit.
 
2013-09-17 07:36:12 AM
My Mom had 4 children and, back in the day, you were still permitted to spank your child and that took care of most behavioral issues.  I honestly can't remember me or any of my 3 brothers ever throwing a fit.  I'm sure we must have, but you could count on old Mom lowering the boom and that stemmed most bad behavior.

Too bad some stupid jerkoffs had to make that a crime.
 
2013-09-17 07:36:21 AM

justanothersumguy: FTA  "Parenting is the easiest thing in the world to have an opinion about, but the hardest thing in the world to do."

This


i BET rocket science is harder.
 
2013-09-17 07:36:44 AM

edmo: But the minute that kid pops out of your insides, you're a freaking expert.


Nope.  I have a 10 year old and a 7 year old and am still learning.
 
2013-09-17 07:36:56 AM

Angry_Monkey: I guess this is the thread where inconsiderate parents justify being inconsiderate.


C'mon, it's a really hard job and they're more qualified than you because they had sex that caused pregnancy. It's not like you can go do that.
 
2013-09-17 07:38:37 AM

earthwirm: Bslim: Keep your filthy crotchfruit at home.

Yes, kids should never be allowed out into the world to learn and grow.


When you teach them how to behave they are welcome to go out into the world to learn and grow. If you refuse to teach them discipline, keep them locked up at home. It will prepare them for a life they will most likely spend in jail.
 
2013-09-17 07:39:12 AM
I'm always impressed at how proud parents are of having accomplished tasks that the major of organisms on the planet accomplish.
 
2013-09-17 07:40:12 AM

marsoft: Cyclometh: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

No, you do not.

Yes she does.  She just should not be dickish about it if she chooses to share it with the parent.


That's misconstruing what she said by reading the letter of it as opposed to the intent.

 Plenty will display that sense of entitlement coupled with ignorance and selfishness. It's an oafish, arrogant and despicable attitude that says you have a right to be free of encountering a child on a public bus.
 
2013-09-17 07:40:26 AM
I have no problem with kids having a meltdown (which happens, deal with it). I DO have a problem if the response isn't to remove the child from the area or at least minimize the issue as best someone can (taking the child to the bathroom on a plane, for example). If the general response from the parent is "Not this sh** again", I'm much less sympathetic.

Kids are going to be kids, but crappy parenting is what defines them.
 
2013-09-17 07:40:47 AM
Kid melting down in a utilitarian place like a grocery store? Who cares. At a nice restaurant, say Red Lobster or Olive Garden? Not cool man.
 
2013-09-17 07:41:33 AM

Cozret: I'm always impressed at how proud parents are of having accomplished tasks that the major of organisms on the planet accomplish.


Sounds like you really hold your parents in contempt.
 
2013-09-17 07:41:41 AM
When my kids were at the age where they would do shiat like that in public, my wife or I would take them outside and wait for them to calm down before returning. Parents these days simply have no farking respect for the people around them. They feel if they have to listen to their spoiled brat throwing a fit, everyone else should have to as well.

If you're in the damn grocery store and your kid is throwing a fit, it's you job as a parent to leave, not drag him through the place kicking and screaming. Yes it's inconvenient. Yes it means your schedule is going to be thrown off. So what, dinner gets on the table late that night, that's life. The rest of the world should not have to put up with your brats poor behavior.
 
2013-09-17 07:41:49 AM

Mugato: jayhawk88: Falstaff: As a new father of twin girls, feel free to express any opinion you want.  I may laugh, I may tell you off.  Either way, we'll be good.

Do NOT, however, just walk up and start rubbing their cheek or stroking their hair.  I just about knocked a woman out last night for doing that.  Didn't say two words to me, just walks up and starts rubbing my youngest's head.  Creepy as hell.

The twins in public thing is one of the weirdest phenomenon ever. I can't say we ever had a "strangers touching" problem, but just everywhere, everyone has to know "do they run in your family" or "are they identical". It does lessen the older they get, though.

Maybe you guys can answer this. Do you dress your twins in identical outfits, if so, why? Is there a twin discount like buy one get one half off or something? And wouldn't that cause identity issues? Anyway, it's creepy, reminds me of The Shining.


Bear in mind that mine are fraternal twins (not identical) and are only 9 months old, but we only dress them alike for the X months old photos.  Otherwise, they G`ET
 
2013-09-17 07:41:58 AM

Cozret: I'm always impressed at how proud parents are of having accomplished tasks that the major of organisms on the planet accomplish.


Like knowing what majority means?
 
2013-09-17 07:42:02 AM
I just wanna say, it's really great to wake up too early and have an awesome, rapidly growing thread to read. Troll on!
 
2013-09-17 07:42:28 AM
I think the good parents hate the "Don't you dare give me a dirty look because I'm letting my five-year-old and my three-year-old chug Mountain Dew and play 'Scream Tag' in the aisles at this 10PM showing of 'I Spit On Your Grave'"-type parents more than the non-parents hate them.
 
2013-09-17 07:42:49 AM
There's no indignation like righteous indignation.
 
2013-09-17 07:43:08 AM

max_pooper: Hey oblivious parents, if you don't want people telling you to shut your bratty kids up don't be shiatty parents. Or don't take your bratty kids out to restaurants but that also falls under the category of not being shiatty parents.

I guess don't be shiatty parents is the central theme to my rant.


Yes, this too!   It really cracks me up when I'm out drinking,  partying, and being raunchy in Vegas at 2am... but I get dirty looks from the parents rolling their tired/hungry/cranky children around in the middle of the night.   I chose not to have kids, so I can choose when/where/what I want to do in the middle of the night.
You chose to create a f*ck trophy; so take care of it!  That means reasonable bed times, more sober living; and going to Disney instead of Vegas.

//Seriously?  How bad of a parent are you to choose Vegas over Disney?
 
2013-09-17 07:43:27 AM
Congratulations on having a penis squirt inside of you!!  Woohoo!!!  god's little miracle.
 
2013-09-17 07:43:28 AM

Falstaff: Mugato: jayhawk88: Falstaff: As a new father of twin girls, feel free to express any opinion you want.  I may laugh, I may tell you off.  Either way, we'll be good.

Do NOT, however, just walk up and start rubbing their cheek or stroking their hair.  I just about knocked a woman out last night for doing that.  Didn't say two words to me, just walks up and starts rubbing my youngest's head.  Creepy as hell.

The twins in public thing is one of the weirdest phenomenon ever. I can't say we ever had a "strangers touching" problem, but just everywhere, everyone has to know "do they run in your family" or "are they identical". It does lessen the older they get, though.

Maybe you guys can answer this. Do you dress your twins in identical outfits, if so, why? Is there a twin discount like buy one get one half off or something? And wouldn't that cause identity issues? Anyway, it's creepy, reminds me of The Shining.

Bear in mind that mine are fraternal twins (not identical) and are only 9 months old, but we only dress them alike for the X months old photos.  Otherwise, they G`ET


Sorry, one of the girls "helped" me type.  What I meant to say was "Otherwise, they get treated like any two other sisters that just happen to share a birthday."
 
2013-09-17 07:43:38 AM

GoldSpider: Something tells me that many of these parents who want you to "just deal with" their shrieking crotchfruit have a slightly different opinion on second-hand smoke.


And in the reverse: I know for a fact that MANY (by many I mean among my own experiences) 'anti child' people are perfectly okay smoking in public, or drinking and driving, or throwing their own temper tantrums, and expect everyone to 'just deal with it'
 
2013-09-17 07:43:57 AM

Cyclometh: marsoft: Cyclometh: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

No, you do not.

Yes she does.  She just should not be dickish about it if she chooses to share it with the parent.

That's misconstruing what she said by reading the letter of it as opposed to the intent.

 Plenty will display that sense of entitlement coupled with ignorance and selfishness. It's an oafish, arrogant and despicable attitude that says you have a right to be free of encountering a child on a public bus.


encountering =/= encountering screeching brat
 
2013-09-17 07:44:05 AM

RayD8: Cozret: I'm always impressed at how proud parents are of having accomplished tasks that the major of organisms on the planet accomplish.

Like knowing what majority means?


Of knowing the difference between major and majority?
 
2013-09-17 07:44:06 AM

flucto: At a nice restaurant, say Red Lobster or Olive Garden?


(-_-)
 
2013-09-17 07:44:38 AM

earthwirm: Mugato: I have a niece and nephew I take out sometimes and I've never had any problems with their throwing a tantrum or acting up. Take some parenting classes, get a nanny or go to the nearest PetSmart and buy a muzzle. Failing all of that, don't get all indignant when someone expresses annoyance at your shrieking spawn.No one should yell at you or anything but don't get all uppity if someone's natural reaction is to look annoyed in your direction.

Wow, you sound like a parenting expert.


I should hire you as my nanny since you are such an expert. I have 4 children and 3 are boys. Three of them are easy going. I get compliments everywhere I go with them. One is more difficult. He is stubborn and harder to control. He will break you.
 
2013-09-17 07:45:15 AM

abhorrent1: How about you parents quit expecting everyone to change the way they live to accommodate your little farking brat?

Oh. You don't like what's on TV because your snowflake may see it? Here's a news flash: You TV has a power button!


You beat the hell out of that straw man. What are you, some kind of ninja?
 
2013-09-17 07:46:20 AM

smoky2010: If I have to tolerate your moronic offspring, then you have to tolerate my opinion

/if you don't like it, too bad


I can't remember a time when mine threw a fit in public, but I can tell you it would have been a monumentally bad time to come up and share your opinion of my parenting abilities.
 
2013-09-17 07:46:20 AM
Well, that was was written in an insufferable style.

We tolerated this guy when he was a child and behaved badly. He is now obligated to tolerate other children as an adult. It's so simple.

It's called being a good member of an evolving species.
 
2013-09-17 07:47:21 AM
You don't have to be a good singer to know when someone is bombing a song. Similarly, I don't have to be a parent to know when someone is bad at it. I find it weird how someone becomes a parent and suddenly they're grafted with all this knowledge the childless obviously could never know, right? All those parents that claim to be above opinions and criticism forget that everyone the biggest idiots seems to be able to keep their children alive and by virtue of the fact that we all figure out parenting as an instinct (or we'd die out), they aren't really much more knowledgeable than the rest of us.

If a child throws a tantrum in public, you just need to look up at the shiatty, effete parents. That all being said, the large majority of parents and children aren't the problem.
 
2013-09-17 07:47:34 AM
+1000000 points for the blogger.

Every jackass is an expert on parenting before they have any kids of their own. When they do, they discover that parenting is not as simple or as black-and-white as they thought. Moreover, they discover that their priority is always the safety, discipline, and well-being of their child, over the comfort, convenience, and opinions of random passersby.
 
2013-09-17 07:48:09 AM

Xanlexian: Congratulations on having a penis squirt inside of you!!  Woohoo!!!  god's little miracle.


http://www.theonion.com/articles/miracle-of-birth-occurs-for-83-bill io nth-time,775/
 
2013-09-17 07:49:02 AM

marsoft: Sounds like you really hold your parents in contempt.


Contempt, no. They are wonderful people who have always been there for me. Much like the parents of my friends for them, my co-workers, myself for mine, etc. However, many people seem to think that parenting grants magic knowledge or that having (or not having) children affects the truth value of a person's statements, and that I find amusing.
 
2013-09-17 07:49:22 AM

flucto: Kid melting down in a utilitarian place like a grocery store? Who cares. At a nice restaurant, say Red Lobster or Olive Garden? Not cool man.


*clapclapclapclap* good show good show.
 
2013-09-17 07:49:33 AM
I love how parents have come to think that ignoring a temper tantrum is the proper course of action to take, ESPECIALLY in public.
 
2013-09-17 07:50:26 AM

Cozret: However, many people seem to think that parenting grants magic knowledge or that having (or not having) children affects the truth value of a person's statements, and that I find amusing.


Agreed.

Since when did experience count for anything?
 
2013-09-17 07:50:29 AM

Lady J: justanothersumguy: FTA  "Parenting is the easiest thing in the world to have an opinion about, but the hardest thing in the world to do."

This

i BET rocket science is harder.


As fate would have it... I am an Aerospace engineer.  a.k.a....
 
2013-09-17 07:50:46 AM

Doc Daneeka: +1000000 points for the blogger.

Every jackass is an expert on parenting before they have any kids of their own. When they do, they discover that parenting is not as simple or as black-and-white as they thought. Moreover, they discover that their priority is always the safety, discipline, and well-being of their child, over the comfort, convenience, and opinions of random passersby.


Except discipline creates comfort and conveniences for a passerby. Lack of discipline fosters opinions in a passerby.

Don't want people to express their opinions about you being a shiaty parent, don't be a shiaty parent.
 
2013-09-17 07:50:48 AM

ninotchka: earthwirm: Mugato: I have a niece and nephew I take out sometimes and I've never had any problems with their throwing a tantrum or acting up. Take some parenting classes, get a nanny or go to the nearest PetSmart and buy a muzzle. Failing all of that, don't get all indignant when someone expresses annoyance at your shrieking spawn.No one should yell at you or anything but don't get all uppity if someone's natural reaction is to look annoyed in your direction.

Wow, you sound like a parenting expert.

I should hire you as my nanny since you are such an expert. I have 4 children and 3 are boys. Three of them are easy going. I get compliments everywhere I go with them. One is more difficult. He is stubborn and harder to control. He will break you.


Gawd, you are a stupid parent.  Just read a book, and raise them all exactly the same way with simplistic platitudes.  I mean, I don't have kids, but I babysat once for 2 hours, and the kid never once had a problem.
 
2013-09-17 07:51:24 AM
I hate that children are our future. We need another alternative.
 
2013-09-17 07:51:37 AM

max_pooper: RayD8: Cozret: I'm always impressed at how proud parents are of having accomplished tasks that the major of organisms on the planet accomplish.

Like knowing what majority means?

Of knowing the difference between major and majority?


yeah, or that.
 
2013-09-17 07:51:39 AM
These threads are so amusing because it gives you a pretty good idea of who the childless basement dwellers are.
 
2013-09-17 07:51:50 AM
I'm generally tolerant of kids in most places. Public parks, grocery stores, the bus, planes... whatever. I can tune them out.

However, I will not tolerate screeching children in the movie theater. That is the one place where without a shadow of a doubt, a person who opts to remain in their seat with a disruptive child is an inconsiderate asshole. There is absolutely no excuse, no justification for that.
 
2013-09-17 07:52:12 AM
I was reading the blog thinking 'yeah ok, he's got a point - I still hate kids, but grocery shopping is a a no-go area if you want a kid free zone.... then I dcided to read the previous blog entry about evil atheists or some such shiate.

so - applying the same logic from that blog -  the guys a complete, total, utter  moron and all his opinions are worthless, therefore everyone should feel free to casually insult parents of screaming toddlers in supermarkets
 
2013-09-17 07:52:15 AM

Albinoman: You don't have to be a good singer to know when someone is bombing a song. Similarly, I don't have to be a parent to know when someone is bad at it. I find it weird how someone becomes a parent and suddenly they're grafted with all this knowledge the childless obviously could never know, right? All those parents that claim to be above opinions and criticism forget that everyone the biggest idiots seems to be able to keep their children alive and by virtue of the fact that we all figure out parenting as an instinct (or we'd die out), they aren't really much more knowledgeable than the rest of us.

If a child throws a tantrum in public, you just need to look up at the shiatty, effete parents. That all being said, the large majority of parents and children aren't the problem.


A wise man knows how much he doesn't know.  An idiot is confident in his lack of knowledge.  I will let you guess which one you are.
 
2013-09-17 07:53:11 AM
Im only 5 sentences in and the blogger already seems to be a coont. I pity his kids.
 
2013-09-17 07:53:20 AM
I came from a large family. My mother makes fun of people who raised one kid and talks like they are an expert on raising children. There is nothing wrong with everyone having an opinion. I know many people who helped raise their siblings, but of course stupid parents then say they know nothing about raising kids because they have none of their own.
 
2013-09-17 07:54:34 AM

Cozret: marsoft: Sounds like you really hold your parents in contempt.

Contempt, no. They are wonderful people who have always been there for me. Much like the parents of my friends for them, my co-workers, myself for mine, etc. However, many people seem to think that parenting grants magic knowledge or that having (or not having) children affects the truth value of a person's statements, and that I find amusing.


Speaking from my own limited experience here - If it grants you anything beyond stress and sleepless nights, parenting grants you heightened sympathy/empathy for what other parents are going through.  You may not know that guy next to you, and he may not know you.  You both have, however, been screamed at for a few months by someone who can barely communicate back to you, have been worried the first time the little one got sick, wondered if you are doing it right, have been urinated on, etc.
 
2013-09-17 07:56:09 AM
I wonder if anyone has done some realistic investigation into what would happen if people everywhere stopped having children. KInd of like that series on Discovery or whatever channel it was where they looked at what would happen if humans disappeared.
 
2013-09-17 07:56:15 AM
You idiots. Regardless of whether you are whiney parents or whiney bystanders, you should grow up yourselves before you comment on how children should be brought up. So stupid.
 
2013-09-17 07:56:28 AM

TalenLee: earthwirm: TalenLee: earthwirm: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

Actually, no you don't. Deal with it.

That's just a flat out lie. I get to have an opinion on anything. Now, the idea that a person doesn't get to express their opinion because you don't think it's justified or morally acceptable or whatever is fine, but I'm fairly sure that telling them their opinion is flat-out not allowed to exist is, at the very least, dickish.

No, it's called humanity. Instead of having a rude demeanor and making everyone days bad , you can choose to lighten the mood or help. Being a jack wagon doesn't and won't help.

You seem to misunderstand me.

I'm not saying 'the opinion about children is A or B.'

I'm saying 'telling someone they're not allowed to have any opinion at all is dickish.'

And... I dunno, it sounds like two people are frustrated and upset with the circumstances, but only one of them is allowed to feel that way because they're a parent, the other is someone uninvolved in the child's life...?


I've run into this kind of attitude before...

"You can't have an opinion on abortion! You're a MAN!"
 
2013-09-17 07:57:30 AM

Infernalist: I love how parents have come to think that ignoring a temper tantrum is the proper course of action to take, ESPECIALLY in public.


Reading this thread I wonder of they can hear it anymore.
 
2013-09-17 07:57:32 AM
Lady J:

encountering =/= encountering screeching brat

Spare me. You could be on the bus with a mom on her way to the doctor with a child that has an earache, or fell down getting on and barked a shin and is crying about it and you'd be right there with the other delicate flowers in this thread telling her she's a bad mother and should get off the bus until her "fark trophy" calms down, right?

I swear, every one of these threads is like a catalog of entitled snowflakes. Bunch of candy-asses, I can't believe you can possibly function in the real world.

What the fark do you people do when instead of having an encounter with a child, you run into an adult who is actually an asshole?  If you can't handle a child getting worked up, i can't imagine you're well-prepared for the harsh realities of life.

Maybe you should just stay home until you're better prepared to deal with people you might encounter as soon as you leave.
 
2013-09-17 07:57:47 AM
Grocery stores are pretty bad places to let a kid rampage through, actually. Lotta breakable crap, fast moving carts to run into, employees on ladders or carrying boxes. Just take em outside for a sec, hell, even the bathroom.
 
2013-09-17 07:58:24 AM
Three kids, three boys, and I honestly hate parents who let their kids scream incessantly in public because they think that it's the right thing to do.

Pro tip:  It's not.

You don't ignore a tantrum, you catch the child before he can get into tantrum mode and address it head on.  Don't treat your child like a pet.  You 'talk' to them, you cajole them, whatever they want, they're not going to get, but if they're good until they get home, there might be something in it for them.

Yes, it's bribery, but by the time they get home, they've completely forgotten about that little talk in the store.

If they don't take the bribe, then be fully prepared to vacate the store with the child.

I've never had to worry about such things because I never took my kids out without them having a nap and a snack first.  It's called preparation and most parents don't get that aspect.  Kids don't throw tantrums just because.  They throw tantrums because you've had them up for hours, they're hungry and exhausted and you want to spend 20 minutes trying to decide which loaf of bread looks the freshest.

Your kid throwing a tantrum in public is not the kid's fault.  It's YOURS.
 
2013-09-17 07:58:32 AM
You get to inflict your screaming brat on the rest of us and shove your work off on us because you have to stay home with your sick kid and in exchange we get to tell you what we think of you're annoying little brat.

Deal?
 
2013-09-17 07:58:35 AM

Infernalist: I love how parents have come to think that ignoring a temper tantrum is the proper course of action to take, ESPECIALLY in public.


It's really the only way to deal with tantrums.

If you give into the child's demands or fall all over yourself to placate him, the child just learns that throwing a tantrum is an effective way to get what they want, and will do it more often in the future.  If you drop everything and run out of the store, it's the same deal - the child takes away the lesson that they are in control and can get you to stop and leave a place they don't want to be simply by throwing a tantrum.  Threats don't work on a toddler - they're not capable of processing that kind of reasoning, especially when they are in that kind of emotional state.

The only thing to o, if you want to discourage tantrums from happening, is to tell you child calmly that the tantrum won't get them what they want, and then calmly, quickly, and efficiently finish your errand. The child will learn that the tantrum was not an effective way of commanding your attention and actions.
 
2013-09-17 07:59:03 AM

Falstaff: Cozret: marsoft: Sounds like you really hold your parents in contempt.

Contempt, no. They are wonderful people who have always been there for me. Much like the parents of my friends for them, my co-workers, myself for mine, etc. However, many people seem to think that parenting grants magic knowledge or that having (or not having) children affects the truth value of a person's statements, and that I find amusing.

Speaking from my own limited experience here - If it grants you anything beyond stress and sleepless nights, parenting grants you heightened sympathy/empathy for what other parents are going through.  You may not know that guy next to you, and he may not know you.  You both have, however, been screamed at for a few months by someone who can barely communicate back to you, have been worried the first time the little one got sick, wondered if you are doing it right, have been urinated on, etc.


Don't need to be a parent for that, dude.
 
2013-09-17 07:59:27 AM

vudukungfu: Crib midgets. Crotch fruit. Sex trophies. Crotch droppings. Crumb snatchers. Womb rats. Ankle biters. Snowflakes. Spawn.
Miss any?


That about sums up the typical responses.  Of course this is just animalistic dehumanization in a pure form which again pretty much sums up the anti-children crowd mentality.

/You know who else was into dehumanization?
//Godwin'ed
 
2013-09-17 07:59:45 AM

The Muthaship: Since when did experience count for anything?


So an M.D. without kids vs Jenny McCarthy . . .you're taking her view on vaccination then?
 
2013-09-17 08:00:25 AM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: I think the good parents hate the "Don't you dare give me a dirty look because I'm letting my five-year-old and my three-year-old chug Mountain Dew and play 'Scream Tag' in the aisles at this 10PM showing of 'I Spit On Your Grave'"-type parents more than the non-parents hate them.


I think you greatly underestimate how much I hate them.
 
2013-09-17 08:00:57 AM

Cozret: I'm always impressed at how proud parents are of having accomplished tasks that the major of organisms on the planet accomplish.


That's what I don't get.

Every cluster of cells crawling on Earth has figured out how to make more clusters. Being a parent only means you are as smart as a trilobite.
 
2013-09-17 08:01:14 AM

cannibalparrot: I've run into this kind of attitude before...

"You can't have an opinion on abortion! You're a MAN!"


Wow, that sounds quite insane if meant wholeheartedly and not as a shortcut. I have heard "Your opinion about abortion is less valid because you've never experienced any of the related issues," which seems pretty reasonable to me.
 
2013-09-17 08:01:23 AM

Cozret: marsoft: Sounds like you really hold your parents in contempt.

Contempt, no. They are wonderful people who have always been there for me. Much like the parents of my friends for them, my co-workers, myself for mine, etc. However, many people seem to think that parenting grants magic knowledge or that having (or not having) children affects the truth value of a person's statements, and that I find amusing.


I think you are confusing experience with "magical knowledge".  Would you agree that for instance a zoo keeper making statements regarding the care and feeding of zoo animals opinion is more valid on that subject than that of someone who has never had even a pet?
 
2013-09-17 08:01:38 AM

Cozret: The Muthaship: Since when did experience count for anything?

So an M.D. without kids vs Jenny McCarthy . . .you're taking her view on vaccination then?


I swear those goalposts were here a minute ago....
 
2013-09-17 08:01:39 AM

Doc Daneeka: It's really the only way to deal with tantrums.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-09-17 08:02:13 AM

Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion


Done in one.
 
2013-09-17 08:02:25 AM

Albinoman: You don't have to be a good singer to know when someone is bombing a song. Similarly, I don't have to be a parent to know when someone is bad at it. I find it weird how someone becomes a parent and suddenly they're grafted with all this knowledge the childless obviously could never know, right? All those parents that claim to be above opinions and criticism forget that everyone the biggest idiots seems to be able to keep their children alive and by virtue of the fact that we all figure out parenting as an instinct (or we'd die out), they aren't really much more knowledgeable than the rest of us.

If a child throws a tantrum in public, you just need to look up at the shiatty, effete parents. That all being said, the large majority of parents and children aren't the problem.


This, completely this.

every parenting style is as unique as the family unit raising the kids.

also, I think some parents and singles alike forget that it does indeed take a village.

These kids are our future surgeons, police officers, scientists etc.

It really is in our collective interests that they're well taken care of and educated.
 
2013-09-17 08:02:50 AM
You know what, that blog post did raise a good point. I had blindly assumed parents were being selfish dicks when they were ignoring their kids when they could just do something to make the infant shut up. Now I realise it's not that simple, because I never thought about it before.

However please, for the love of god, don't take your kids on holiday by air if they cannot behave. If they're not old enough to not scream then don't bring them on the plane. Or at least beg with us for the airlines to make childless flights. Meet us halfway here. What harm does childless flights do you? None, you get the same plane to get where you're going, and I probably have to pay extra to have a stress free flight. Everyone is happy.

The last 2 flights out of the country I've been on I've been set in front of screaming children. I can't take it. Hours and hours of screaming. If I was American it might be easier because I could drive everywhere, but you can't always drive around Europe, especially when going to island destinations.

I now know why the kids keep screaming, and I can appreciate what you're trying to do, but help us all out here and try to not subject everyone to it in enclosed spaces. Please. You must be able to remember, from your pre-parent days, how angry hearing another persons child scream for an hour can make you. If you hadn't experienced that before becoming a parent then you were probably quite lucky. You put headphones on but that doesn't drown it out, and then for good measure he starts kicking the back of your seat. I could weep with exasperation just remembering it.

What about if we all make an agreement that until childless flights are a thing that you will all do your best to get on flights between 11am and 5pm. Everything out of those hours we can call adult friendly. Is that a fair compromise?  I just want to find a solution to our respective problems. I know we can do it. If there's one think Fark is good for it's rational, and well tempered conversation leading to fruitful debate where all parties leave amicably.

Also, everyone else, don't clap and cheer when the plane lands. Who does that? I mean really. It's just silly.
 
2013-09-17 08:03:00 AM
I am a big fan of opera.  When my two girls used to act up in the store I would begin to belt out the final scene of "Don Giovanni" at the top of my lungs.  Yah, it got me a few looks, but it only took a couple of bars and it was like my kids were walking in a funeral procession.  Worked like the sweet, sweet musical magic it is.
 
2013-09-17 08:03:26 AM
You're kid's right to exist and your right to not be ridiculed as a clueless parent ends at my nose.  If you can't control your kid, remove him/her from society until he/she learns.
 
2013-09-17 08:03:51 AM

Cyclometh: Lady J:

encountering =/= encountering screeching brat

Spare me. You could be on the bus with a mom on her way to the doctor with a child that has an earache, or fell down getting on and barked a shin and is crying about it and you'd be right there with the other delicate flowers in this thread telling her she's a bad mother and should get off the bus until her "fark trophy" calms down, right?

I swear, every one of these threads is like a catalog of entitled snowflakes. Bunch of candy-asses, I can't believe you can possibly function in the real world.

What the fark do you people do when instead of having an encounter with a child, you run into an adult who is actually an asshole?  If you can't handle a child getting worked up, i can't imagine you're well-prepared for the harsh realities of life.

Maybe you should just stay home until you're better prepared to deal with people you might encounter as soon as you leave.


ragey. i hope you don't take out that temper on your kids
 
2013-09-17 08:03:53 AM
I don't understand people who hate children so much. You do know you were that screaming a-hole at one point in your life right?
 
2013-09-17 08:04:35 AM

Tat'dGreaser: at one point


????
 
2013-09-17 08:04:55 AM

flucto: Tat'dGreaser: at one point

????


I meant yesterday
 
2013-09-17 08:04:57 AM
Lady J: ragey. i hope you don't take out that temper on your kids

Bless your heart.
 
2013-09-17 08:04:58 AM

justanothersumguy: I am a big fan of opera.  When my two girls used to act up in the store I would begin to belt out the final scene of "Don Giovanni" at the top of my lungs.  Yah, it got me a few looks, but it only took a couple of bars and it was like my kids were walking in a funeral procession.  Worked like the sweet, sweet musical magic it is.


Ah the power of perceived social stigma.

You.  I like you.
 
2013-09-17 08:05:06 AM

WrathOfCaan: //Godwin'ed


Yes. But it was subtle.
 
2013-09-17 08:06:49 AM

Doc Daneeka: Infernalist: I love how parents have come to think that ignoring a temper tantrum is the proper course of action to take, ESPECIALLY in public.

It's really the only way to deal with tantrums.

If you give into the child's demands or fall all over yourself to placate him, the child just learns that throwing a tantrum is an effective way to get what they want, and will do it more often in the future.  If you drop everything and run out of the store, it's the same deal - the child takes away the lesson that they are in control and can get you to stop and leave a place they don't want to be simply by throwing a tantrum.  Threats don't work on a toddler - they're not capable of processing that kind of reasoning, especially when they are in that kind of emotional state.

The only thing to o, if you want to discourage tantrums from happening, is to tell you child calmly that the tantrum won't get them what they want, and then calmly, quickly, and efficiently finish your errand. The child will learn that the tantrum was not an effective way of commanding your attention and actions.


You're wrong.  Kids aren't that smart.  They're not throwing a tantrum so they can get what they want.  They're throwing a fit because they've reached their limit on coping with denial.  Those limits are usually low to begin with, but when a child is tired and hungry and just wants to go home, those limits are all but nonexistent.

Take any child in the temper tantrum range, keep them up for hours, no nap, no snack, and see how long they last before they lose their shiat.  It's got NOTHING to do with bargaining with the parents.  It's got everything to do with their lack of coping.

Learn to put your child down for a nap an hour before you need to leave for the store.  Feed them some crackers on the way to the store or in the store.  A rested child with a full belly is a happy child that doesn't freak out when you say 'no' to whatever it is that they want.
 
2013-09-17 08:07:12 AM

marsoft: Cozret: marsoft: Sounds like you really hold your parents in contempt.

Contempt, no. They are wonderful people who have always been there for me. Much like the parents of my friends for them, my co-workers, myself for mine, etc. However, many people seem to think that parenting grants magic knowledge or that having (or not having) children affects the truth value of a person's statements, and that I find amusing.

I think you are confusing experience with "magical knowledge".  Would you agree that for instance a zoo keeper making statements regarding the care and feeding of zoo animals opinion is more valid on that subject than that of someone who has never had even a pet?


Zookeepers are professionals who have had professional training in the care of animals. Idiot parents, not so much.
 
2013-09-17 08:07:20 AM
I have the privilege of being able to say "No, I don't have kids. But I've worked with abused and behaviorally challenged kids for the last 5 years. The kind of kids of you have to restrain and seclude, then play legos with 30 minutes later. I know a bit."


That shuts them up.
 
2013-09-17 08:07:33 AM
Screaming kids are obnoxious and annoying.  Sanctimonious, self centered douchbags so offended that anything might inconvenience them slightly are obnoxious and annoying.

One of those two groups is young and doesn't know better.

Get over yourself.  There are a lot of people on this planet, live and let live.  It will be ok.
 
2013-09-17 08:08:15 AM
Got to the point where all I had to do was clear my throat, and they were like...."Holy Shat, dad is going to start singing!"
 
2013-09-17 08:08:51 AM
I never quite understood getting pissed off at parents whose kids throw tantrums in public. Sure, there are places that kids maybe shouldn't be, but they have to learn how to behave in public anyway, and the only way to do that is to take them out into public. And besides, it's way more fun to go talk to the kid (assuming they're not in the process of being punished) and try to distract them from what's upsetting them, especially when you can get them grinning.

And when I have been able to take my cousins on my own (though most of them were past the toddler stage at that point, but not always), they behave great. Because I'm their cousin and not a parent. Same trip with a parent or my grandmother along, and things aren't always as peachy. It does help that if I have them on my own, I have free time and can spoil them with all-day trips to the park and such.
 
2013-09-17 08:13:30 AM

justanothersumguy: Got to the point where all I had to do was clear my throat, and they were like...."Holy Shat, dad is going to start singing!"


I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
 
2013-09-17 08:13:40 AM

MycroftHolmes: Screaming kids are obnoxious and annoying.  Sanctimonious, self centered douchbags so offended that anything might inconvenience them slightly are obnoxious and annoying.

One of those two groups is young and doesn't know better.

Get over yourself.  There are a lot of people on this planet, live and let live.  It will be ok.


You mean the parents are young and don't know better? You're right. Kind strangers will be more than happy to let you know you are being a terrible parent.
 
2013-09-17 08:14:40 AM

TalenLee: cannibalparrot: I've run into this kind of attitude before...

"You can't have an opinion on abortion! You're a MAN!"

Wow, that sounds quite insane if meant wholeheartedly and not as a shortcut. I have heard "Your opinion about abortion is less valid because you've never experienced any of the related issues," which seems pretty reasonable to me.


Nope.  She meant exactly what she said.

/She ended the debate, so I guess there's that.
 
2013-09-17 08:16:11 AM
i used to get annoyed about kids screaming and being loud in public. Then I had a kid. Now I think its endlessly amusing.

Also, there's a world of difference between tantrum throwing and general normal kid noise. 95% percent of the racket is just kid noise. Kids are noisy. Well behaved kids are also loud at times. It's just the way it is.
 
2013-09-17 08:17:45 AM
I don't have kids, but they don't bother me at all. They're pretty funny when they run around screaming and breaking stuff. Even a bawling baby on the airplane is probably having massive stabby pains in the ear, so I feel sorry for them.
I do hate new mommies though. That tone of voice they use, even with other adults. They almost never look happy. And what is it with the farking khaki mom shorts with the little turned up cuffs? And the $2,000 strollers (Hoboken thing maybe)? I can't go to my local Starbucks any more - it's been occupied by lame-shorts-wearing new mommies babytalking to other new mommies about snowflake stuff. farking kill me.
Then there's the mommy bloggers. A real live human woman who is not at all embarrassed to call themselves a mommy blogger or mommy advocate. I can't fap to that. I can't fap to that at all.
 
2013-09-17 08:19:03 AM

marsoft: Cozret: marsoft: Sounds like you really hold your parents in contempt.

Contempt, no. They are wonderful people who have always been there for me. Much like the parents of my friends for them, my co-workers, myself for mine, etc. However, many people seem to think that parenting grants magic knowledge or that having (or not having) children affects the truth value of a person's statements, and that I find amusing.

I think you are confusing experience with "magical knowledge".  Would you agree that for instance a zoo keeper making statements regarding the care and feeding of zoo animals opinion is more valid on that subject than that of someone who has never had even a pet?


Personally, I wouldn't, necessarily. I know a woman who runs a "bird rehab". Her birds are obviously atrociously cared-for. I've never had a kestrel, but I know how to tell one is not well taken care of.

So, keeping the metaphor going, some zookeepers don't know what they're doing. Some zookeepers get eaten by lions, and then even people who have never had a pet can rightly say "Wow, that guy was a bad zookeeper."
 
2013-09-17 08:19:29 AM
You know how the Iraq war turned the country into a terrorist training ground?

This thread is just like that, but for trolls.

Absolutely magnificent.
 
2013-09-17 08:20:20 AM

Luthien's Tempest: I never quite understood getting pissed off at parents whose kids throw tantrums in public. Sure, there are places that kids maybe shouldn't be, but they have to learn how to behave in public anyway, and the only way to do that is to take them out into public. And besides, it's way more fun to go talk to the kid (assuming they're not in the process of being punished) and try to distract them from what's upsetting them, especially when you can get them grinning.

And when I have been able to take my cousins on my own (though most of them were past the toddler stage at that point, but not always), they behave great. Because I'm their cousin and not a parent. Same trip with a parent or my grandmother along, and things aren't always as peachy. It does help that if I have them on my own, I have free time and can spoil them with all-day trips to the park and such.


I had the same experience with my 2 little nephews. Maybe it was because I treated them like little humans and not just as kids.
As soon as my sister was around, different story.
 
2013-09-17 08:23:23 AM

Cyclometh: Lady J:

encountering =/= encountering screeching brat

Spare me. You could be on the bus with a mom on her way to the doctor with a child that has an earache, or fell down getting on and barked a shin and is crying about it and you'd be right there with the other delicate flowers in this thread telling her she's a bad mother and should get off the bus until her "fark trophy" calms down, right?

I swear, every one of these threads is like a catalog of entitled snowflakes. Bunch of candy-asses, I can't believe you can possibly function in the real world.

What the fark do you people do when instead of having an encounter with a child, you run into an adult who is actually an asshole?


Man, I wonder where those people come from? I'm sure their parents raised them right, because parents are always right about their kids.
 
2013-09-17 08:25:21 AM
Isn't parenting nothing more than trial by fire?  Somehow I doubt that by having a child an individual magically becomes a parenting expert.  They know how they deal with their children.  Nothing more, nothing less.  If I went out and purchased a skill saw, lathe, planer and other assorted carpentry tools that doesn't automatically transform me into a master craftsmen.  Same with children and parenting.  Other people's input will help you hone your skills.  Just because you may not agree with or like what is being offered doesn't mean that it doesn't work.  It may be that it just doesn't work for you.  Both sides.  Get over it.
 
2013-09-17 08:26:46 AM

RayD8: Luthien's Tempest: I never quite understood getting pissed off at parents whose kids throw tantrums in public. Sure, there are places that kids maybe shouldn't be, but they have to learn how to behave in public anyway, and the only way to do that is to take them out into public. And besides, it's way more fun to go talk to the kid (assuming they're not in the process of being punished) and try to distract them from what's upsetting them, especially when you can get them grinning.

And when I have been able to take my cousins on my own (though most of them were past the toddler stage at that point, but not always), they behave great. Because I'm their cousin and not a parent. Same trip with a parent or my grandmother along, and things aren't always as peachy. It does help that if I have them on my own, I have free time and can spoil them with all-day trips to the park and such.

I had the same experience with my 2 little nephews. Maybe it was because I treated them like little humans and not just as kids.
As soon as my sister was around, different story.


My mom and I were in charge of my three-year-old baby cousin a couple years ago. I warned him not to cross my mom because she was "the meanest mom". We got into a cute little debate over whose mom was the meanest. A few minutes later, he hit my mom with a toy dinosaur after she'd told him not to, and she made him go to his room for a few minutes.

As he passed me on the way out, he conceded, "She is mean!"

/he was a nightmare around his mom, but pretty good around his dad, and from then on, a friggin' angel around my mom
//she doesn't take shiat from anybody
 
2013-09-17 08:26:53 AM
All you need to know about raising kids is that they don't like bright light, don't get them wet, and no matter how much they beg or cry, never feed them after midnight.
 
2013-09-17 08:27:10 AM
If you sit next to me in a restaurant and give your kids an iPad to shut them up, that's cool. If you think I'm not going to fart at your table if I can HEAR the iPad, then you are in f
 
2013-09-17 08:27:54 AM
or a big sulfur-y surprise!
 
2013-09-17 08:28:52 AM

HaywoodJablonski: The woman in the article was disciplining her child. Isn't that what most of you untouchables (childless and usually mateless people) want her to do?


Didn't read the article, discipline sounds useful.

As far as non-parents knowing more about parenting, I'd have to point out that I watch parents occupy their kids in supermarkets by letting them go annoy others or play with stuff--that is, pull things off the shelf and throw it around, or spin trolleys full of product, essentially "go touch something that isn't yours or mommy's and stop bothering mommy."  Someone else has to deal with them, and clean up their mess.  And when you tell them they're raising their kid wrong... they get all snippy.

Then the kid is 14 and is a shoplifter and drug dealer and likes to tresspass and mess with other peoples' stuff.

Then he gets shot in the face by a farmer with a shotgun.

"ALL HE WAS DOING WAS EATING SOME APPLES!  YOU HAVE TEN MILLION APPLES!"

Yup.  He was stealin' my apples.  Ya don't understand "stealin'"?

We have people who are like... their kids are screaming and slamming toys on someone else's furniture or car, causing damage.  "Well you can't tell him to stop, he's 3 years old, he won't listen."  I've heard this excuse.  A lot.  And then... you have 3 year old Asian kids who suddenly stop and look up to you when they're in your way, and try to find a way to resolve the situation quickly and effectively.  And they clean up their toys.  And try to make sure they're not bothering anyone else or making a mess or damaging anything when they're occupying themselves.  biatch YOU ARE WRONG, SHOUT AT THE THREE YEAR OLD AND TAKE HIS TOYS AWAY.

But no, I'm not a parent, I can't possibly know anything about how kids work.  Obviously asians are just superior and we should euthanize your kids and sterilize you because your genetics are failure and need to be expunged.
 
2013-09-17 08:32:45 AM
Some parents have very well behaved children that do not annoy other adults when in public. If this does not describe your children and you persist in taking them out in public, you are bad and you should feel bad.
 
2013-09-17 08:33:05 AM
time for a send them down the mines joke?
 
2013-09-17 08:33:16 AM
Probably 60 international flights and I only ever had one mid-flight meltdown.... with an 8 month old.   Nothing I could do... but since I'm the Dad I was getting disapproving looks from some females.  Fat, ugly woman right behind me said "why don't you control that child.  She woke me up" in the rudest possible tone.  I asked her if crying babies bothered her on airplanes.  She said yes, of course.  So I told her loud enough for the cabin to hear "the get your own private farking airplane and you won't have that problem".  She got laughed at by about 50 people and, as if by magic, baby stopped crying and started laughing too.
 
2013-09-17 08:34:26 AM

MycroftHolmes: Albinoman: You don't have to be a good singer to know when someone is bombing a song. Similarly, I don't have to be a parent to know when someone is bad at it. I find it weird how someone becomes a parent and suddenly they're grafted with all this knowledge the childless obviously could never know, right? All those parents that claim to be above opinions and criticism forget that everyone the biggest idiots seems to be able to keep their children alive and by virtue of the fact that we all figure out parenting as an instinct (or we'd die out), they aren't really much more knowledgeable than the rest of us.

If a child throws a tantrum in public, you just need to look up at the shiatty, effete parents. That all being said, the large majority of parents and children aren't the problem.

A wise man knows how much he doesn't know.  An idiot is confident in his lack of knowledge.  I will let you guess which one you are.


Dated a woman for a long time with 4 kids (they were from 10 months to 9 years when we started). They'd listen to me and not her, probably had a lot to do with me actually playing with them and treating them like people instead of just screaming at them like she did. Never had to raise my voice, never touched them. I liked being their dad a lot more than being her boyfriend. While I certainly didn't get the whole parenting experience, I found it really is just an extension of your own personality. shiatty people make shiatty parents. Admittedly, being a patient and easy going really helps too.

So, since you made that statement while knowing nothing about me, which one does that make you?
 
2013-09-17 08:35:02 AM
Meanwhile, all of these 'kids causing havoc' things... I mean, I can't honestly think of the last time I've seen that. I do my own grocery shopping, sometimes with my wife, and... like, I can't think of seeing kids bawling in the aisles or throwing tantrums. I'll overhear a "Can I have that?" or a "No we can't have that," or a "Put that back," but it's overhearing.

Sometimes on a bus I'll hear a kid get a real wail on and that makes me super uncomfortable. The sound makes me feel ill and nervous and I fret. Sometimes my wife and I will be bothered by this, and one will roll their eyes and the other will sympathise some and we'll keep it to ourselves. This is like when say, a loud asshole sits too close and sings really loudly along with his phone.

It's this... strange cultural gap, really.
 
2013-09-17 08:36:20 AM

Mugato: jayhawk88: Falstaff: As a new father of twin girls, feel free to express any opinion you want.  I may laugh, I may tell you off.  Either way, we'll be good.

Do NOT, however, just walk up and start rubbing their cheek or stroking their hair.  I just about knocked a woman out last night for doing that.  Didn't say two words to me, just walks up and starts rubbing my youngest's head.  Creepy as hell.

The twins in public thing is one of the weirdest phenomenon ever. I can't say we ever had a "strangers touching" problem, but just everywhere, everyone has to know "do they run in your family" or "are they identical". It does lessen the older they get, though.

Maybe you guys can answer this. Do you dress your twins in identical outfits, if so, why? Is there a twin discount like buy one get one half off or something? And wouldn't that cause identity issues? Anyway, it's creepy, reminds me of The Shining.


And when King wrote The Shining, they were not supposed to be twins. Kubrick thought it would ramp up the creepy or something. Which it did.
 
2013-09-17 08:36:53 AM

Luthien's Tempest: I never quite understood getting pissed off at parents whose kids throw tantrums in public. Sure, there are places that kids maybe shouldn't be, but they have to learn how to behave in public anyway, and the only way to do that is to take them out into public.


If a kid is having a tantrum and the parent is trying to do something about it that's one thing. It's the parents that ignore it and continue about there business as if nothing is going on while their kid loses their mind or is running around creating chaos.

Frankly, I don't understand how even they can stand it.
 
2013-09-17 08:37:52 AM
I can't lay an egg, either. But I can smell a bad one.
 
2013-09-17 08:37:52 AM

robohobo: Also, we're all forcefully made to contribute monetarily to children that aren't ours. So fark off, parents. YOU farking made the choice to make more people. In most cases, people you cannot afford.


Here we go-
I contribute to SNAP and a host of other things that support your elderly parents but my parents are DEAD.
I contribute to legislators that rule on a host of issues that HAVE NO BEARING ON MY LIFE
I pay taxes for things I will NEVER SEE
General Electric PAYS NO TAXES and yet USES MY ROADS.
it's called an inequity.  They're everywhere.  I hope you are never effected by any but if you are, it's too bad, join the club.
Have a great day with perhaps a bit more perspective.

or-

AngryDragon: You're kid's right to exist and your right to not be ridiculed as a clueless parent ends at my nose.  If you can't control your kid, remove him/her from society until he/she learns.

You're kid's

parents right to exist and your right to not be ridiculed as a clueless parentchild ends at my nose.  If you can't control your kid parent, remove him/her from society until he/she learns.

And just keep your smelly whiney dirty diaper Alzheimer or Parkinsons afflicted elderly parents at home where they belong not sucking up state aid by the bucketful.

It's odd how some saws cut in BOTH directions isn't it?

some people choose not to have kids and that's okay.  some people choose to have kids and THAT's okay.
Everyone has parents, and, depending on how you handle it, that's okay.

Is anyone embarrassed when there's a Silver Alert for their parents that effects the entire state?  When everyone that's even passing through the state is requested to be on the look out for an elderly person with no brains or teeth?
Not bloody likely.
Does anyone complain about the expense when the local authorities have to send out search teams with dogs to find the missing elderly?  Like your deadbeat parents?
Not bloody likely.

So learn some simple human compassion.  It's gonna serve you well in the future.  Even if your parents are DEAD.  You know, act like a christian or something - give it a shot.

*stands, wipes hands on pants, walks away*
 
2013-09-17 08:38:41 AM
Kids are kids.  They are great, MOST of the time.  That being said, I have no real issues with kids that are having a bad day, I don't automatically go "wow, shiatty parent there!" and stomp off, giving the stink eye.

However, the blogger is a pants on head retarded douchebag.  Just like the stranger who was a colossal douchebag.  Both douchebags.

The mom, clever girl.  I hope her day got better.

/childless
//love being around all my siblings' kids....for a few hours at a time
///no one needs to be a douchebag about it
///DOUCHEBAGS!

(yes, it's early yet)
 
2013-09-17 08:39:31 AM

bluefoxicy: HaywoodJablonski: The woman in the article was disciplining her child. Isn't that what most of you untouchables (childless and usually mateless people) want her to do?

Didn't read the article, discipline sounds useful.

As far as non-parents knowing more about parenting, I'd have to point out that I watch parents occupy their kids in supermarkets by letting them go annoy others or play with stuff--that is, pull things off the shelf and throw it around, or spin trolleys full of product, essentially "go touch something that isn't yours or mommy's and stop bothering mommy."  Someone else has to deal with them, and clean up their mess.  And when you tell them they're raising their kid wrong... they get all snippy.

Then the kid is 14 and is a shoplifter and drug dealer and likes to tresspass and mess with other peoples' stuff.

Then he gets shot in the face by a farmer with a shotgun.

"ALL HE WAS DOING WAS EATING SOME APPLES!  YOU HAVE TEN MILLION APPLES!"

Yup.  He was stealin' my apples.  Ya don't understand "stealin'"?

We have people who are like... their kids are screaming and slamming toys on someone else's furniture or car, causing damage.  "Well you can't tell him to stop, he's 3 years old, he won't listen."  I've heard this excuse.  A lot.  And then... you have 3 year old Asian kids who suddenly stop and look up to you when they're in your way, and try to find a way to resolve the situation quickly and effectively.  And they clean up their toys.  And try to make sure they're not bothering anyone else or making a mess or damaging anything when they're occupying themselves.  biatch YOU ARE WRONG, SHOUT AT THE THREE YEAR OLD AND TAKE HIS TOYS AWAY.

But no, I'm not a parent, I can't possibly know anything about how kids work.  Obviously asians are just superior and we should euthanize your kids and sterilize you because your genetics are failure and need to be expunged.


Yeah, those damn trolleys. A gateway crime.
 
2013-09-17 08:40:17 AM

TalenLee: Sometimes on a bus I'll hear a kid get a real wail on and that makes me super uncomfortable.


That's because there's actually a physiological reaction to a child's crying. Humans respond to it far more than they do other noises. It's also why even when there's plenty of other stuff going on that's really distracting or noisy, a child's cry is so easy to hear.

We're programmed to respond to it.
 
2013-09-17 08:40:18 AM
TalenLee: Meanwhile, all of these 'kids causing havoc' things... I mean, I can't honestly think of the last time I've seen that. I do my own grocery shopping, sometimes with my wife, and... like, I can't think of seeing kids bawling in the aisles or throwing tantrums. I'll overhear a "Can I have that?" or a "No we can't have that," or a "Put that back," but it's overhearing.

I can tell you don't shop at Wal-Mart on weekends...
 
2013-09-17 08:40:31 AM

Slaxl: What about if we all make an agreement that until childless flights are a thing that you will all do your best to get on flights between 11am and 5pm. Everything out of those hours we can call adult friendly. Is that a fair compromise?


Absolutely.  I LOVE that idea.  In fact, the last time I booked flights with my kids, I planned to leave Toronto at 7am, four hour flight to Denver while they're rested and happy and fed, lots of toys and games to entertain them.  Hour and a half layover in Denver at lunch time, two hour flight to Phoenix with the little one napping and both fed and happy.  It would have been WONDERFUL.

Then, windstorm in Toronto.  Flight delayed, ON THE TARMAC, for 2 hours.  They were getting antsy but the Ipad kept my boy busy (and the de-icer, that was cool for him) - he's 3.  The baby (10 months) we just passed around between the three adults and kept feeding her.  She fell asleep on the flight once we finally took off, and he miraculously kept his cool, with a little bit of excited yelling (THAT'S THE WHEELS COMING OUT MOMMY!  WHOA WE'RE TIPPING!) upon descent in Denver.  Missed our connection, so SEVEN FREAKING HOURS in the Denver airport with two bored kids.  Ran about on the moving sidewalks for a long time.  Finally got on a packed flight to Phoenix, where we had to sit all scattered around.  Both promptly fell asleep and woke when we landed.  No crying.  The only tantrum we had was waiting to board the flight to Phoenix with the 3yo (he just wanted to get on NOW), and my husband when we missed our connection.  OH, and the guy who was politely asked to switch seats so that my husband could sit beside our 3yo.  I was like, Dude, sure, you can stay here with him, I'm sure Dad would love to have a quiet flight somewhere else on the plane.

So, maybe that parent on that plane HAD planned well.  Had scheduled those optimum hours, brought snacks and games to weather a flight or two - and the airlines s*&t all over it.  Hm?
 
2013-09-17 08:41:14 AM
You know what? Fark you you sanctimonious parents.  The author is justifying the parent letting the child be a shrieking nuisance because they "didn't have time" to deal with the child because it was "inconvenient." Tough shiat.  I'm not complaining about your parenting because your child is acting out (yes, I know children do that) but because you are being  selfish and inconsiderate by not dealing with it appropriately and instead making the unilateral choice to make your problem  my problem.  Is it a bigger inconvenience for you to have to stop your shopping and sit in your car with your kid than it is for me to listen to screaming for 40 seconds? Yes, but it's also  not my child and I'm not required to put up with its misbehavior.

And if you are a parent who is not doing something to control a tantruming child in a grocery store, you're damn right I'll have an opinion.  Same as I have an opinion about people who sneeze on the produce or haven't showered in days.Stop trying to blame people for being annoyed at  you for not doing something about that problem that you brought in with you.
 
2013-09-17 08:41:17 AM
"Many people, big and small, are assholes"
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-09-17 08:42:59 AM

shut_it_down: You know what? Fark you you sanctimonious parents.  The author is justifying the parent letting the child be a shrieking nuisance because they "didn't have time" to deal with the child because it was "inconvenient."


I like how you put things the author didn't say in quotes, like it was something in the article, so you can attack it.

That's called a strawman, in case you were wondering.
 
2013-09-17 08:43:40 AM

Civchic: So, maybe that parent on that plane HAD planned well.  Had scheduled those optimum hours, brought snacks and games to weather a flight or two - and the airlines s*&t all over it.  Hm?


Ok, drug them when they board the plane instead.
 
2013-09-17 08:46:03 AM
Did you hear the story about two assholes that met at the supermarket?
 
2013-09-17 08:46:09 AM

Albinoman: MycroftHolmes: Albinoman: You don't have to be a good singer to know when someone is bombing a song. Similarly, I don't have to be a parent to know when someone is bad at it. I find it weird how someone becomes a parent and suddenly they're grafted with all this knowledge the childless obviously could never know, right? All those parents that claim to be above opinions and criticism forget that everyone the biggest idiots seems to be able to keep their children alive and by virtue of the fact that we all figure out parenting as an instinct (or we'd die out), they aren't really much more knowledgeable than the rest of us.

If a child throws a tantrum in public, you just need to look up at the shiatty, effete parents. That all being said, the large majority of parents and children aren't the problem.

A wise man knows how much he doesn't know.  An idiot is confident in his lack of knowledge.  I will let you guess which one you are.

Dated a woman for a long time with 4 kids (they were from 10 months to 9 years when we started). They'd listen to me and not her, probably had a lot to do with me actually playing with them and treating them like people instead of just screaming at them like she did. Never had to raise my voice, never touched them. I liked being their dad a lot more than being her boyfriend. While I certainly didn't get the whole parenting experience, I found it really is just an extension of your own personality. shiatty people make shiatty parents. Admittedly, being a patient and easy going really helps too.

So, since you made that statement while knowing nothing about me, which one does that make you?


Very nice.  You counter your original argument 'I don't have to be a parent to know a bad one' with a litany of your qualifications as a parent.  You realize that you pretty much undermined your own argument.

Also, as an uncle and occasional babysitter of friends kids, my experience indicates that there is a world of difference between having to parent kids full time, and parent them only for small sprints in usually controlled circumstances.

And I made no statement about you.  Just made a declarative statement that I will stand by.  Sensitive much?
 
2013-09-17 08:46:37 AM

Civchic: Slaxl: What about if we all make an agreement that until childless flights are a thing that you will all do your best to get on flights between 11am and 5pm. Everything out of those hours we can call adult friendly. Is that a fair compromise?


Only problem I see with that theory is that if you have to fly from the west coast of the US to the east coast and want to arrive at a quasi-decent hour for kids, you are taking off at 6amish.
 
2013-09-17 08:47:00 AM
Ha! it's funny how butthurt shiatty parents get when they're called on their shiatty parenting.

But don't forget! You're a PARENT, and as such, better than others who aren't.
 
2013-09-17 08:48:18 AM
Perfect for baby showers:
www.barkingpet.com
 
2013-09-17 08:49:31 AM

doubled99: Ha! it's funny how butthurt shiatty parents get when they're called on their shiatty parenting.

But don't forget! You're a PARENT, and as such, better than others who aren't.


Are you honestly arguing that being a parent does not give you more insight in the challenges of being a parent?  Seriously?
 
2013-09-17 08:50:47 AM

safeforwork: And in the reverse: I know for a fact that MANY (by many I mean among my own experiences) 'anti child' people are perfectly okay smoking in public, or drinking and driving, or throwing their own temper tantrums, and expect everyone to 'just deal with it'


Today's lesson:  Don't be a dick in public.
 
2013-09-17 08:50:59 AM

TalenLee: Maybe they'll make nice rooms for people with no kids to go and sit in places they can be (relatively) sure they won't have to hear children crying? I dunno. The blog post seems to be responding to a petty asshole by being a sanctimonious asshole.


This.

Non-parents need to understand that kids throw temper tantrums sometimes, regardless of the quality of the parenting, so learn to deal with it. Alternatively, the author says, "the peanut gallery probably expects you to drop all of your groceries and immediately run into the parking lot, so as to save them from having to deal with the spectacle. But it's not always that simple; maybe you don't have time to shut down the whole operation just because Billy's gone nuclear." Sometimes that is true, but you don't get a free pass every time simply because it is an inconvenience to you to be respectful of everyone else in public.
 
2013-09-17 08:53:15 AM

Mrs.Sharpier: These kids are our future surgeons, police officers, scientists etc.


I'll give you the police officers, but the future scientists and surgeons are sitting down to supper in India right about now.
 
2013-09-17 08:53:47 AM

abhorrent1: How about you parents quit expecting everyone to change the way they live to accommodate your little farking brat?

Oh. You don't like what's on TV because your snowflake may see it? Here's a news flash: You TV has a power button!


I don't get upset about crap like that, because I'm not a sanctimonious biatch. I do, however, get upset when childless people suggest that I should never bring my child out in public because they *might* act out and remind said person that the world doesn't revolve around them. And I'm not talking fancy restaurants (haven't been to one of those in forever). But one day I took my toddler son to Long John Silver's. The place was completely empty, so we stayed to eat. Two enormous women came in as I was throwing our stuff away, and my son was singing a song. Those two cows started making comments very loudly about how they were *going* to eat there, but they couldn't because then they would have to listen to that "brat". It was all I could do to not tell those biatches off with "I wouldn't stay because I'd be afraid you'd eat my 'brat'". One of my husband's friends is a childless lawyer, and he was complaining that parents were always bringing their kids with them to his office. I said "Maybe if you worked past 4 pm in the afternoon, people wouldn't have to. Where are they supposed to find a babysitter at 10:30 am on a Thursday morning?" Same with doctors, mechanics, post offices, etc etc.
 
2013-09-17 08:53:56 AM

earthwirm: Onkel Buck: I know well enough to learn from others mistakes

I highly doubt that.


Then you would be mistaken, see I just learned something else. Never assume

/I dont like your farking cats either
 
2013-09-17 08:53:59 AM

Falstaff: Civchic: Slaxl: What about if we all make an agreement that until childless flights are a thing that you will all do your best to get on flights between 11am and 5pm. Everything out of those hours we can call adult friendly. Is that a fair compromise?

Only problem I see with that theory is that if you have to fly from the west coast of the US to the east coast and want to arrive at a quasi-decent hour for kids, you are taking off at 6amish.


It's a minor problem compared to another flight with a child screaming. Not excitedly talking, laughing, pointing things out, but screaming, wailing, thrashing, screeching, sticking a knife into my eardrums.
 
2013-09-17 08:56:07 AM
You're the only person who likes your kids, well you and the pervert at the park may take a shine to them as well
 
2013-09-17 08:56:57 AM

Doc Daneeka: +1000000 points for the blogger.


And then -10,000,000 points for being a sexist creationist antivaxxer, who never met a strawman he didn't like.
 
2013-09-17 08:58:31 AM
I dated a lady with 5 kids.
All boys.
All very young.
When they would start to get loud, she would say, "Don't be shrill"
She actually kept me around longer than I would have liked because she could handle all 5 at once.
Problem was, she was also handling more than 5 at once, if you know what I mean.
 
2013-09-17 09:00:19 AM
I've never pitched in the big leagues either, but I recognize a guy who can't find the strike zone when I see one.
 
2013-09-17 09:00:37 AM
It's usually hard to fault a parent when you see their child have a public tantrum... the first time.

Repeated public tantrums indicate a child unfamiliar with consequences.
 
2013-09-17 09:01:17 AM
I threw exactly one fit in public. My mom stopped what she was doing, bent me over her knee, spanked me, and then went on shopping. Everyone around me started laughing and clapping. I was mortified and clearly remember it even though I was just about four.

I grew up just fine. Embarrassment, shaming, and spanking are effective parenting techniques, but they have fallen "out" with new age parents. Now we have a generation of entitled little douchebags who can't handle rejection, think they are always special, and are mediocre. Yes, no spanking, time-outs, and bullshiat "achievment" awards have made our society so much better.
 
2013-09-17 09:02:04 AM

MycroftHolmes: Albinoman: MycroftHolmes: Albinoman: You don't have to be a good singer to know when someone is bombing a song. Similarly, I don't have to be a parent to know when someone is bad at it. I find it weird how someone becomes a parent and suddenly they're grafted with all this knowledge the childless obviously could never know, right? All those parents that claim to be above opinions and criticism forget that everyone the biggest idiots seems to be able to keep their children alive and by virtue of the fact that we all figure out parenting as an instinct (or we'd die out), they aren't really much more knowledgeable than the rest of us.

If a child throws a tantrum in public, you just need to look up at the shiatty, effete parents. That all being said, the large majority of parents and children aren't the problem.

A wise man knows how much he doesn't know.  An idiot is confident in his lack of knowledge.  I will let you guess which one you are.

Dated a woman for a long time with 4 kids (they were from 10 months to 9 years when we started). They'd listen to me and not her, probably had a lot to do with me actually playing with them and treating them like people instead of just screaming at them like she did. Never had to raise my voice, never touched them. I liked being their dad a lot more than being her boyfriend. While I certainly didn't get the whole parenting experience, I found it really is just an extension of your own personality. shiatty people make shiatty parents. Admittedly, being a patient and easy going really helps too.

So, since you made that statement while knowing nothing about me, which one does that make you?

Very nice.  You counter your original argument 'I don't have to be a parent to know a bad one' with a litany of your qualifications as a parent.  You realize that you pretty much undermined your own argument.

Also, as an uncle and occasional babysitter of friends kids, my experience indicates that there is a world of difference between having

to parent kids full time, and parent them only for small sprints in usually controlled circumstances.
And I made no statement about you.  Just made a declarative statement that I will stand by.  Sensitive much?


No, not at all. You made that statement after copying my post, who else would it be to? Your statement was to imply my lack of understanding of what it's like to be a parent. I've been there, she's now long gone and I'm still childless. I countered by basically saying you know nothing about me (like you thought I did about parenting), yet felt "confident" in saying I'm an idiot. I was just pointing out your hypocrisy.
 
2013-09-17 09:02:08 AM
Slightly more realistically, the peanut gallery probably expects you to drop all of your groceries and immediately run into the parking lot, so as to save them from having to deal with the spectacle. But it's not always that simple;

Dear random internet guy;

It's exactly that simple.  Note how your car has child locks?

Step 1: "Hey, passerby, could you watch my cart a minute?"

Step 2: Put kid in car.  Crack windows.

Step 3: "I will back in 15 minutes, you'd better be quiet by then or we're going home."  Lock doors.

Step 4: Return to cart.  Check out.

Step 5: Kid still fussing?

y: Go home.  Shopping trip's over.  Make it clear to the kid  why the shopping trip is over.
n: Return to shopping.

Seriously, man, raising a kid is not rocket science.  Any idiot can do it, many idiots  do do it, and statistically at least half those idiots are doing it better than you are.  Well, your kid is throwing fits in public without first suffering pain or injury, so let's be realistic: 9/10 of idiots are doing it better than you.

Sincerely,

One of the people that has to deal with the consequences of your poor decisions when they hit the education system
 
2013-09-17 09:04:34 AM

Jim_Callahan: Seriously, man, raising a kid is not rocket science. Any idiot can do it,


This has to be the funniest single thing I'll see today. You are simultaneously advocating locking children in the car alone, which in most states will get you a free wood shampoo on your way to the pokey, and boasting about your mad parenting skillz.

You are my new hero.
 
2013-09-17 09:06:54 AM

Albinoman: No, not at all. You made that statement after copying my post, who else would it be to? Your statement was to imply my lack of understanding of what it's like to be a parent. I've been there, she's now long gone and I'm still childless. I countered by basically saying you know nothing about me (like you thought I did about parenting), yet felt "confident" in saying I'm an idiot. I was just pointing out your hypocrisy.


So, a guy who says that non-parents are qualified to critique parents, then backs this argument up by saying that he was a de facto parent and then therefore qualified.  So, my label of idiot applies in two ways.  First, you basically misreprented yourself, then tried to claim I was wrong because I was passing judgement based on your original self characterization (as a non-parent).  Second, you undermined your own argument by saying that your right as a non-parent to criticize comes from your experience in a parental role.

So, yeah, idiot applies.
 
2013-09-17 09:08:57 AM

Uranus Is Huge!: It's usually hard to fault a parent when you see their child have a public tantrum... the first time.

Repeated public tantrums indicate a child unfamiliar with consequences.


How can you tell the difference?
 
2013-09-17 09:10:59 AM
I hate kids. Specifically other people's kids. I have one of my own though, and he has been properly acclimated to function in society without causing a disturbance to others - specifically on airplanes and in restaurants. He is better behaved than most adults in similar situations I think. Maybe that is because their parents raised them wrong as well. It is not difficult to create a functioning young person though as a parent, but it does involve discapline, fear of punishment and a 3DS/Iphone.
 
2013-09-17 09:11:40 AM

Bslim: Keep your filthy crotchfruit at home.


this
 
2013-09-17 09:11:48 AM
I just don't get it.  How is this any different than anything else that's annoying in life and that you have to deal with when you go into public?  How is it any different than that guy on his phone who bumps into you on the street?  Or the dude who cut you off on the way to the store?  Or the person in the store who's blocking exactly the item you need to purchase, and can't make up their mind about what they want?  These are instances you come across with in your life as a human being.  It's annoying and frustrating, but honestly there's no reason to be a complete dick over it.  Yeah i have my opinions about these people like anyone else, but a little patience goes a long way.  If you feel the need to publicly shame someone, insult someone, or directly shove you're opinion down their throat, you're an asshole first and foremost.

Is it really that difficult to understand that some kids are just a pain in the ass sometimes?   That not every instance of life can be completely under your control?   I don't think you need to have children to be able to empathize with the struggles it presents.  If the kid is whining, crying, and carrying on for an extended period of time and the parent refuses to do anything, I can see that as a reason to be upset.  But i still don't think its appropriate for you to confront that person with your narrow opinion.  You have no idea what any stranger is currently going through in their life, be it that day, week or year.  Get over yourself.  It really is a very minor inconvenience.
 
2013-09-17 09:12:49 AM

puckrock2000: Doc Daneeka: +1000000 points for the blogger.

And then -10,000,000 points for being a sexist creationist antivaxxer, who never met a strawman he didn't like.


+1 (to Puckrock2000.... not the Ahole blogger)
 
2013-09-17 09:13:12 AM
How has this not been posted yet????

i242.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-17 09:14:00 AM

Jim_Callahan: Slightly more realistically, the peanut gallery probably expects you to drop all of your groceries and immediately run into the parking lot, so as to save them from having to deal with the spectacle. But it's not always that simple;

Dear random internet guy;

It's exactly that simple.  Note how your car has child locks?

Step 1: "Hey, passerby, could you watch my cart a minute?"

Step 2: Put kid in car.  Crack windows.

Step 3: "I will back in 15 minutes, you'd better be quiet by then or we're going home."  Lock doors.

Step 4: Return to cart.  Check out.


Actual Step 5: Get arrested for child abandonment when someone notices unattended children, locked in a car, in a grocery store parking lot.  Dude, our parents may have done this when we were kids but unless you've been under a rock, this is a HUGE bad idea.  You can't even leave a dog in a parked car anymore.  I can't even pump gas at a station without using the pay-at-the-pump, because I'd have to haul two kids out of their car seats and into the station to pay.
 
2013-09-17 09:14:27 AM
Of course non-parents are allowed to have opinions on how to rear human mini-beasts.
It's just that hvaing an opinoin and having a valid opinion is two different things.
And having an opinion and loudly voicing that opinion is two different things.

See, if you think blue is a better color for a car than yellow, that's perfectly okay. Going up to every yellow-colored car you see and loudly proclaiming that they suck at owning cars is still stupid.

And, if you think that it sucks that your your car has four wheels and that it would be better if it had three that is perfectly within your right. You're wrong, but so are we all at some point or another. Not voicing your very very stupid opinion will help you convince others that you are not very very stupid. So please keep your mouth shut.

To paraphrase (and translate) Håvamål:

It's better to keep your mouth shut
And let people belive you a fool
than to open your mouth
and remove all doubt.

PS! in old norse it rhymes and is thus more awsome
 
2013-09-17 09:14:50 AM

Jim_Callahan: Slightly more realistically, the peanut gallery probably expects you to drop all of your groceries and immediately run into the parking lot, so as to save them from having to deal with the spectacle. But it's not always that simple;

Dear random internet guy;

It's exactly that simple.  Note how your car has child locks?

Step 1: "Hey, passerby, could you watch my cart a minute?"

Step 2: Put kid in car.  Crack windows.

Step 3: "I will back in 15 minutes, you'd better be quiet by then or we're going home."  Lock doors.

Step 4: Return to cart.  Check out.

Step 5: Kid still fussing?

y: Go home.  Shopping trip's over.  Make it clear to the kid  why the shopping trip is over.
n: Return to shopping.

Seriously, man, raising a kid is not rocket science.  Any idiot can do it, many idiots  do do it, and statistically at least half those idiots are doing it better than you are.  Well, your kid is throwing fits in public without first suffering pain or injury, so let's be realistic: 9/10 of idiots are doing it better than you.

Sincerely,

One of the people that has to deal with the consequences of your poor decisions when they hit the education system


a: You're on the way to the ER seeking treatment for kid's dehydaration and or heat stroke?
 
2013-09-17 09:15:18 AM

jfivealive: Is it really that difficult to understand that some kids are just a pain in the ass sometimes?


Sure, but you'd have to be living on Mars to not know that there is a special kind of parent out there who just doesn't give a crap about how much disruption their kids are causing. Example: kid on airplane recently who went up and down the aisle knocking over people's drinks. Over and over. Did mom give a crap? Hah. Little Timmy is just being creative, why are you trying to stifle him you bad, bad person.
 
2013-09-17 09:16:24 AM

Jim_Callahan: Slightly more realistically, the peanut gallery probably expects you to drop all of your groceries and immediately run into the parking lot, so as to save them from having to deal with the spectacle. But it's not always that simple;

Dear random internet guy;

It's exactly that simple.  Note how your car has child locks?

Step 1: "Hey, passerby, could you watch my cart a minute?"

Step 2: Put kid in car.  Crack windows.

Step 3: "I will back in 15 minutes, you'd better be quiet by then or we're going home."  Lock doors.


Here in the Sunshine state, that's a second degree misdemeanor with up to a $500 fine and 60 days in jail as penalties.  Hope that shopping trip was worth it to you.
 
2013-09-17 09:17:02 AM

smoky2010: If I have to tolerate your moronic offspring, then you have to tolerate my opinion

/if you don't like it, too bad


You are awesome! "Hey lady, if your 3-yo wants to scream and cry look at me, I'm a grown person who's going to show him up. Look at me!! LOOK AT ME!!"

// Farktard
 
2013-09-17 09:17:14 AM

RayD8: a: You're on the way to the ER seeking treatment for kid's dehydaration and or heat stroke?


No the kid is on his way to the ER and child protective services and

b: he's on his way to the pokey.
 
2013-09-17 09:19:32 AM

Jim_Callahan: Slightly more realistically, the peanut gallery probably expects you to drop all of your groceries and immediately run into the parking lot, so as to save them from having to deal with the spectacle. But it's not always that simple;

Dear random internet guy;

It's exactly that simple.  Note how your car has child locks?

Step 1: "Hey, passerby, could you watch my cart a minute?"

Step 2: Put kid in car.  Crack windows.

Step 3: "I will back in 15 minutes, you'd better be quiet by then or we're going home."  Lock doors.

Step 4: Return to cart.  Check out.

Step 5: Kid still fussing?

y: Go home.  Shopping trip's over.  Make it clear to the kid  why the shopping trip is over.
n: Return to shopping.

Seriously, man, raising a kid is not rocket science.  Any idiot can do it, many idiots  do do it, and statistically at least half those idiots are doing it better than you are.  Well, your kid is throwing fits in public without first suffering pain or injury, so let's be realistic: 9/10 of idiots are doing it better than you.

Sincerely,

One of the people that has to deal with the consequences of your poor decisions when they hit the education system


You know how I know you're southern?
 
2013-09-17 09:19:33 AM

Mugato: I have a niece and nephew I take out sometimes and I've never had any problems with their throwing a tantrum or acting up. Take some parenting classes, get a nanny or go to the nearest PetSmart and buy a muzzle. Failing all of that, don't get all indignant when someone expresses annoyance at your shrieking spawn.No one should yell at you or anything but don't get all uppity if someone's natural reaction is to look annoyed in your direction.


Get a nanny? Yes, if your child EVER throws a tantrum, borrow money from your parents and get a nanny.

// Oh you're NOT a parent? I am going to die of a heart attach from not suprise
// Please do not reproduce
 
2013-09-17 09:21:57 AM

GoldSpider: Something tells me that many of these parents who want you to "just deal with" their shrieking crotchfruit have a slightly different opinion on second-hand smoke.


BREAKING: GoldSpider has successfully linked lung cancer to children screaming. News at 9!

// Anything else you want to pull out of your ass?
 
2013-09-17 09:24:03 AM

MycroftHolmes: Albinoman: No, not at all. You made that statement after copying my post, who else would it be to? Your statement was to imply my lack of understanding of what it's like to be a parent. I've been there, she's now long gone and I'm still childless. I countered by basically saying you know nothing about me (like you thought I did about parenting), yet felt "confident" in saying I'm an idiot. I was just pointing out your hypocrisy.

So, a guy who says that non-parents are qualified to critique parents, then backs this argument up by saying that he was a de facto parent and then therefore qualified.  So, my label of idiot applies in two ways.  First, you basically misreprented yourself, then tried to claim I was wrong because I was passing judgement based on your original self characterization (as a non-parent).  Second, you undermined your own argument by saying that your right as a non-parent to criticize comes from your experience in a parental role.

So, yeah, idiot applies.


First, thanks for admitting you were originally passing judgment this time instead of claiming it was just some "declarative statement" about no one like you did before. I mean really, anyone could see that.

I don't really think it's a hard concept to grasp that while having no children of my own I have had to play that role. I don't see anywhere where I stated otherwise. Feel free to quote me. My opinions about screaming brats and their shiatty parents have never changed. What you don't get is that I did it with out any prior knowledge, you just go into it blind cause you don't have a choice and what that means is what parents think they know through experience really doesn't count for much. You're mostly programmed for it, so the observations of those without children are perfectly valid.
 
2013-09-17 09:24:06 AM
The public temper tantrums aren't a problem because they will happen to most kids at some point.  I just carry on with my business.

It really grinds my gears when it is the parents with <5 yr olds at the Dark Knight (or worse: "Ted" - that Mark Wahlberg movie with the talking teddy bear) matinee or the mommy club with infants at the Hobbit midnight premiere.  Also the parents with their elementary schoolers at Wal-Mart at 11:30 on a school night.  There are age-appropriate activities that set children up for success.  When you become a parent (like we are) you give up your college-aged lifestyle as part of the trade-off.
 
2013-09-17 09:24:26 AM

farm machine: Isn't parenting nothing more than trial by fire?  Somehow I doubt that by having a child an individual magically becomes a parenting expert.  They know how they deal with their children.  Nothing more, nothing less.  If I went out and purchased a skill saw, lathe, planer and other assorted carpentry tools that doesn't automatically transform me into a master craftsmen.  Same with children and parenting.  Other people's input will help you hone your skills.  Just because you may not agree with or like what is being offered doesn't mean that it doesn't work.  It may be that it just doesn't work for you.  Both sides.  Get over it.


Parenting is very much a honed skill that only comes by experience.  One child doesn't exactly makes an expert, however after three I have discovered I can spot a parent of an only child from 20 yards.  I don't mean mom/dad with only one child, I mean I can tell if mom/dad is out with only child or out with the baby while the older kids are at school.  Kids are all very different and yet when it comes to basic needs they are very similar.  Every time a child screams in a store is situational and no blanket response should be thrown out if you really don't know.  It does bother me when a baby is crying because the baby can't control his/her environment and needs something, whether it be food, a changing or is simply tired and can't fall asleep.  An experienced parent can tell by the cry, a new mom will try to rush through shopping instead of helping the child.  The mom is the blog handled it well, keep going mom.  The cases that bother me the most are where I have witnessed the parent inflicting pain on the child for doing nothing wrong before the child started crying out and the parent thens yells at the child for crying.  The worst one I witnessed was a dad who squeezed his daughters arm for singing a made up song about how much he meant to her ON FATHERS' DAY.  It was the only time I wanted to hit a parent for their parenting skills.  Don't get me wrong, if I don't know for a certainty why the child is screaming or crying I don't let myself even think anything in one direction or the other, nor do I offer unsolicited advice.  Folks with multiple children and/or grandchildren have honed their skills if they really spent some time with their children and have a wealth of knowledge to be shared.  The first step is learning to listen to the child.
 
2013-09-17 09:25:01 AM
Jim_Callahan: Slightly more realistically, the peanut gallery probably expects you to drop all of your groceries and immediately run into the parking lot, so as to save them from having to deal with the spectacle. But it's not always that simple;
Dear random internet guy;
It's exactly that simple.  Note how your car has child locks?

Not everyone has a car.

Step 1: "Hey, passerby, could you watch my cart a minute?"
No he can't. And having to stand next to a cart for ten minutes surely is more irritating than listening to a kid crying over at the other isle.

Step 2: Put kid in car.  Crack windows.
What car? And a three year old can open that window by himself so you won't have to.

Step 3: "I will back in 15 minutes, you'd better be quiet by then or we're going home."  Lock doors.
A locked door is hardly an obstacle for a smart three-year old. And he's not going to sit quietly in the car (if you have one). He's going to rip everything on the inside to shreds and draw on everything he can't destroy. If he doesn't have something to draw with replace "draw" with "engrave using your sunglasses".

Step 4: Return to cart.  Check out.
Finally something that I can do.

Step 5: Kid still fussing?
y: Go home.  Shopping trip's over.  Make it clear to the kid  why the shopping trip is over.

If I was to stop shopping every time the kid is crying I'd never get to shop anything. Do you expect all parents to grow/gather/hunt their own food?

n: Return to shopping.
Seriously, man, raising a kid is not rocket science.  Any idiot can do it, many idiots  do do it, and statistically at least half those idiots are doing it better than you are.  Well, your kid is throwing fits in public without first suffering pain or injury, so let's be realistic: 9/10 of idiots are doing it better than you.

Every parent you see shopping with a one-four year old kid who isn't having a tantrum is probably having a good shopping trip, not a non-tantrumy kid.

Sincerely, One of the people that has to deal with the consequences of your poor decisions when they hit the education system
No way you're reflected enough about kids to be a teacher. So that is a blatant lie. Either that or you're a janitor.
 
2013-09-17 09:25:23 AM

jfivealive: I just don't get it.  How is this any different than anything else that's annoying in life and that you have to deal with when you go into public?  How is it any different than that guy on his phone who bumps into you on the street?  Or the dude who cut you off on the way to the store?  Or the person in the store who's blocking exactly the item you need to purchase, and can't make up their mind about what they want?  These are instances you come across with in your life as a human being.  It's annoying and frustrating, but honestly there's no reason to be a complete dick over it.  Yeah i have my opinions about these people like anyone else, but a little patience goes a long way.  If you feel the need to publicly shame someone, insult someone, or directly shove you're opinion down their throat, you're an asshole first and foremost.

Is it really that difficult to understand that some kids are just a pain in the ass sometimes?   That not every instance of life can be completely under your control?   I don't think you need to have children to be able to empathize with the struggles it presents.  If the kid is whining, crying, and carrying on for an extended period of time and the parent refuses to do anything, I can see that as a reason to be upset.  But i still don't think its appropriate for you to confront that person with your narrow opinion.  You have no idea what any stranger is currently going through in their life, be it that day, week or year.  Get over yourself.  It really is a very minor inconvenience.


Some people may think that the parents are struggling needlessly. Like, why take 3 young kids on an 8 hour flight at all? Why do you have to bring your 2 YO to a restaurant? Why is mommy all alone in a grocery store with 2 babies and a giant shopping list? Why do 10 mommies with 20 little kids feel obligated to congregate at the Starbucks on 12th and Hudson for four farking hours at a time - a Starbucks that used to be the best chick-watching place in the known universe before the yuppie mommy mafia took it over?
Some people may dig kids, but hate mommies.
Some people.
 
2013-09-17 09:25:58 AM
As a new parent, I am very aware of my surroundings.  I would never stay in a store if my baby was having a meltdown.  You take her outside and if there's no hope of calming down, you go home.  Sure it's inconvenient, but rolling the dice is part of being a parent.  You take your chances, and many times it's good with a lot of people smiling and saying hi to you and your baby.  But on those bad days you pack it up and go home.  Very very simple.
 
2013-09-17 09:28:02 AM

Fuggin Bizzy: Uranus Is Huge!: It's usually hard to fault a parent when you see their child have a public tantrum... the first time.

Repeated public tantrums indicate a child unfamiliar with consequences.

How can you tell the difference?


Um... I go to the same grocery store all the time.
 
2013-09-17 09:28:11 AM

HaywoodJablonski: The woman in the article was disciplining her child. Isn't that what most of you untouchables (childless and usually mateless people) want her to do?

/Stoke, stoke...


Yes.  Imagine if the woman had caved and given her kid what he wanted?  I guess it boils down to do you want one tantrum today, or a tantrum every week for the rest of the kid's childhood?

I guess non-parent people just don't want a tantrum where *they* can hear it and screw everyone else who has to deal with the bad-behavior-reinforcing-action you want the parent to take for your own temporary benefit.
 
2013-09-17 09:28:22 AM

THE GREAT NAME: You idiots. Regardless of whether you are whiney parents or whiney bystanders, you should grow up yourselves before you comment on how children should be brought up. So stupid.


pot. kettle, black.
 
2013-09-17 09:28:36 AM

max_pooper: Doc Daneeka: +1000000 points for the blogger.

Every jackass is an expert on parenting before they have any kids of their own. When they do, they discover that parenting is not as simple or as black-and-white as they thought. Moreover, they discover that their priority is always the safety, discipline, and well-being of their child, over the comfort, convenience, and opinions of random passersby.

Except discipline creates comfort and conveniences for a passerby. Lack of discipline fosters opinions in a passerby.


The problem is that non-parents too often equate "discipline" with "quiet and meekly behaved at all times."  It's not so.

Sometimes a parent disciplining a child results in explosive outbursts and tantrums.  Sometimes it's because the child wants something (candy, a toy, or to go somewhere else) and the parent is holding firm in saying no.  It's easy to placate a child and prevent tantrums by giving them what they want all the time, but that is not discipline.

What you perceive as "lack of discipline" may in fact be the parent disciplining their child, asserting their authority and teaching the child that they do not always get everything they want, and that a tantrum is not an effective way of influencing their parents' actions.  Despite what you think, parents are not oblivious to their child throwing a tantrum - they are painfully aware of it and likely embarrassed - but they are dealing with it in the best way they know how and trying to discourage (not reward) that kind of behavior.
 
2013-09-17 09:28:55 AM

ph0rk: Some parents have very well behaved children that do not annoy other adults when in public. If this does not describe your children and you persist in taking them out in public, you are bad and you should feel bad.


Lol, no. Sometimes children are well behaved in public. But no children are always well behaved in public. You are wrong, and you should feel wrong.
 
2013-09-17 09:29:30 AM

Jim_Callahan: Slightly more realistically, the peanut gallery probably expects you to drop all of your groceries and immediately run into the parking lot, so as to save them from having to deal with the spectacle. But it's not always that simple;

Dear random internet guy;

It's exactly that simple.  Note how your car has child locks?

Step 1: "Hey, passerby, could you watch my cart a minute?"

Step 2: Put kid in car.  Crack windows.

Step 3: "I will back in 15 minutes, you'd better be quiet by then or we're going home."  Lock doors.

Step 4: Return to cart.  Check out.

Step 5: Kid still fussing?

y: Go home.  Shopping trip's over.  Make it clear to the kid  why the shopping trip is over.
n: Return to shopping.

Seriously, man, raising a kid is not rocket science.  Any idiot can do it, many idiots  do do it, and statistically at least half those idiots are doing it better than you are.  Well, your kid is throwing fits in public without first suffering pain or injury, so let's be realistic: 9/10 of idiots are doing it better than you.

Sincerely,

One of the people that has to deal with the consequences of your poor decisions when they hit the education system


One flaw with your brilliant plan.  If your kid is young enough to throw a tantrum, they are too young to be in a car by themselves.  Most states have a law against it.

Everything that our parents used to do to us in public is now illegal.  It happens, get over it.
 
2013-09-17 09:29:36 AM

Jim_Callahan: {Let me take my asshattery and ignorance and share it as helpful parenting tip]


Congrats, I thought the dumbest farking thing I could ever read would be in the politics tab ... but I can tell your a special kind of stupid.

// Goddamn that was idiotic and we are all are dumber from having read it.
 
2013-09-17 09:29:48 AM
Yes, parents are always smart and do the best for their kids.  Those who only have a basic grasp of reality can't hope to compete with that

http://www.healio.com/pediatrics/journals/pedann/%7Bb09dbfc1-b28f-47 01 -b42c-527bb369f62b%7D/a-3-year-old-girl-with-eye-pain   (Warning: graphic example of the kind of expert having a child makes you)
 
2013-09-17 09:29:57 AM

flucto: jfivealive: Is it really that difficult to understand that some kids are just a pain in the ass sometimes?

Sure, but you'd have to be living on Mars to not know that there is a special kind of parent out there who just doesn't give a crap about how much disruption their kids are causing. Example: kid on airplane recently who went up and down the aisle knocking over people's drinks. Over and over. Did mom give a crap? Hah. Little Timmy is just being creative, why are you trying to stifle him you bad, bad person.


I agree.  And that person's an asshole but I don't believe its the norm, and you must not believe that either judging by your use of adjectives.  So why is the response always that the person you run into is a bad parent?  The behavior could be ranging to speaking loudly in a restaurant all the way up to what you described, yet the reaction is the same.  Those are the people I'm talking about.  Those are the assholes.
 
2013-09-17 09:30:50 AM
I guess no one should ever make fun of any idiot in the news who does something stupid because Hey! You weren't in that situation. You don't know what it's like!
 
2013-09-17 09:31:38 AM

Freudian_slipknot: Yes, parents are always smart and do the best for their kids.  Those who only have a basic grasp of reality can't hope to compete with that


The tastiest cherries are the ones you pick yourself, amirite?

/amirite?
 
2013-09-17 09:33:27 AM

Albinoman: MycroftHolmes: Albinoman: No, not at all. You made that statement after copying my post, who else would it be to? Your statement was to imply my lack of understanding of what it's like to be a parent. I've been there, she's now long gone and I'm still childless. I countered by basically saying you know nothing about me (like you thought I did about parenting), yet felt "confident" in saying I'm an idiot. I was just pointing out your hypocrisy.

So, a guy who says that non-parents are qualified to critique parents, then backs this argument up by saying that he was a de facto parent and then therefore qualified.  So, my label of idiot applies in two ways.  First, you basically misreprented yourself, then tried to claim I was wrong because I was passing judgement based on your original self characterization (as a non-parent).  Second, you undermined your own argument by saying that your right as a non-parent to criticize comes from your experience in a parental role.

So, yeah, idiot applies.

First, thanks for admitting you were originally passing judgment this time instead of claiming it was just some "declarative statement" about no one like you did before. I mean really, anyone could see that.

I don't really think it's a hard concept to grasp that while having no children of my own I have had to play that role. I don't see anywhere where I stated otherwise. Feel free to quote me. My opinions about screaming brats and their shiatty parents have never changed. What you don't get is that I did it with out any prior knowledge, you just go into it blind cause you don't have a choice and what that means is what parents think they know through experience really doesn't count for much. You're mostly programmed for it, so the observations of those without children are perfectly valid.


Oh, it was a declarative statement.  I set forth two objective conditions, and allowed you to pick which one applied.I just chose not to go down the rabbit hole of trying to argue semantics with you when there were more amusing lines of argument.

So, let me see if I can get this straight-your original statement was that you don't need to be a parent to see bad parenting, when challenged you acknowledged that you essentially were a parent, then basically back up your argument by saying that when you were a parent, you didn't really now how to do it, but were able to do it based on programming.

So, your current contention is that parenting is innate and instinctive, and that you do not ever learn anything about parenting based on experience.  So, let me ask you, in your time as a parent, did you learn anything about how to deal with the kids, did you alter the way you interacted with them?  Did you learn what worked and what didn't based on trial and error, or did you, from day one, automatically know how to handle them?
 
2013-09-17 09:34:00 AM

jfivealive: I agree. And that person's an asshole but I don't believe its the norm, and you must not believe that either judging by your use of adjectives. So why is the response always that the person you run into is a bad parent? The behavior could be ranging to speaking loudly in a restaurant all the way up to what you described, yet the reaction is the same. Those are the people I'm talking about. Those are the assholes.


I think you might be missing the flip side of the argument. For the most part, people understand and don't say much. The assholes who show up to lecture people are the minority, just as genuine asshole parents are. It doesn't happen that often but the discussion of it obviously strikes a nerve on both sides.

Unlike dog owners, who all need to be ground into free meatloaf and fed to the poor.
 
2013-09-17 09:34:23 AM

Loucifer: I hate that children are our future. We need another alternative.


Robots.
 
2013-09-17 09:34:58 AM

Freudian_slipknot: Yes, parents are always smart and do the best for their kids.  Those who only have a basic grasp of reality can't hope to compete with that

http://www.healio.com/pediatrics/journals/pedann/%7Bb09dbfc1-b28f-47 01 -b42c-527bb369f62b%7D/a-3-year-old-girl-with-eye-pain   (Warning: graphic example of the kind of expert having a child makes you)


Holy shiat! Something bad happened to a kid? Stop the farking presses.

HEY EVERYONE, Freudian Slipknot just found an article in a medical journal about parents being dumbasses. This means that all parents are stupid, FS is an expert on child rearing, and all of your arguments are invalid.

// Oh bless you kind sir! Bless your little heart!
 
2013-09-17 09:35:28 AM

Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion


Sure, fair enough.  And that opinion should be "Jeez, screeching kids are annoying."  Not "What terrible parents they are" or "I would never let my kid scream on the bus."
 
2013-09-17 09:35:34 AM

vudukungfu: I dated a lady with 5 kids.
All boys.
All very young.


Were you going to St. Ives?
 
2013-09-17 09:35:42 AM

jayhawk88: The twins in public thing is one of the weirdest phenomenon ever. I can't say we ever had a "strangers touching" problem, but just everywhere, everyone has to know "do they run in your family" or "are they identical". It does lessen the older they get, though.


How much older? I'm 46 and random strangers still feel the need to comment on my breasts.
 
2013-09-17 09:35:57 AM

chubby muppet: As a new parent, I am very aware of my surroundings.  I would never stay in a store if my baby was having a meltdown.  You take her outside and if there's no hope of calming down, you go home.  Sure it's inconvenient, but rolling the dice is part of being a parent.  You take your chances, and many times it's good with a lot of people smiling and saying hi to you and your baby.  But on those bad days you pack it up and go home.  Very very simple.


It's not that simple. Nothing ever is. If your toddler is having a tantrum because he doesn't want to be there, leaving immediately effectively teaches him a quick way to get out of an undesirable situation. Continuing to shop may make other shoppers uncomfortable, but it teaches the kid that he doesn't get to dictate the agenda. It depends on the individual kid, of course. There's no simple answer that will make everyone happy.
 
2013-09-17 09:36:22 AM

mightybaldking: Sure, fair enough. And that opinion should be "Jeez, screeching kids are annoying." Not "What terrible parents they are" or "I would never let my kid scream on the bus."


How come nobody mentioned that people who ride buses deserve what they get. Sheesh, get a Prius already.
 
2013-09-17 09:36:29 AM

chubby muppet: As a new parent, I am very aware of my surroundings.  I would never stay in a store if my baby was having a meltdown.  You take her outside and if there's no hope of calming down, you go home.  Sure it's inconvenient, but rolling the dice is part of being a parent.  You take your chances, and many times it's good with a lot of people smiling and saying hi to you and your baby.  But on those bad days you pack it up and go home.  Very very simple.


Grocery stores are the last place on earth I would expect peace and quiet. Who cares? Your crying baby is drowning out the Billy Joel song on the Muzak machine, so thanks for that. You know what's more annoying in a grocery store? The husband/boyfriend who just stands with the cart in front of the tomatoes, staring at his blackberry, while the wife/girlfriend runs around doing the actual shopping. fark that guy. Useless.
 
2013-09-17 09:37:19 AM

Englebert Slaptyback: That's okay. I'll be over here enjoying lots of disposable income (post-saving and investing, of course) because I am not chained to one or more squalling proto-humans.


tee hee


I see you have your TotalFark membership all up to date....

Wait you don't? Maybe all that money you brag about is imaginary......
 
2013-09-17 09:37:38 AM

gglibertine: I'm 46 and random strangers still feel the need to comment on my breasts.


*snert*
 
2013-09-17 09:38:04 AM
I do feel like I should at least point out that the author of this blog is somebody who declined to immunize his children against Hepatitis B because only people who have promiscuous sex get Hepatitis B.

So we're not talking about a rocket surgeon here.
 
2013-09-17 09:38:41 AM

chubby muppet: As a new parent, I am very aware of my surroundings.  I would never stay in a store if my baby was having a meltdown.  You take her outside and if there's no hope of calming down, you go home.  Sure it's inconvenient, but rolling the dice is part of being a parent.  You take your chances, and many times it's good with a lot of people smiling and saying hi to you and your baby.  But on those bad days you pack it up and go home.  Very very simple.


I have two small kids and a full time job. I have a two-hour window every day where I can get some shopping done. sually when I spend that two-hour window shopping rather than teaching my three-year old to read, playing with the kids or just going for a stroll it means that I need something from the store in order to have something to eat. Just going home is not really an option. Woe be unto me if the kids need new clothes, shoes, or if I just want to get something for myself, that's filling up my day. I simply don't have enough spare time while the kids are awake  to abandon planned shopping trips because of a small tantrum. The tantrum will fade within a few minutes usually, and most people understand what is happening and are fine with it.
My inconvenience at having to go home because of the tantrum is surely as bad as the inconvenience the 10% of the passersbys who care suffer from having to listen to a kid scream about dinosaur cupcakes for two minutes.

And my youngest is too young for the three year old elder brother to care for at home alone. And I can't really go anywhere while they're asleep. And I don't have a babysitter, and have never had one (for three years). No relatives live nearby and my friends are not really child-rearing people. They could probably have fun with the kids and give them food, but can't change diapers. And also they probably don't want to be babysitters since they have full-time jobs and stuff to do. So if the kids are home, so am I.

Conclusion: I'm sorry if people think my kids are being loud (they usually aren't, at least not for long) but it will last until it stops.
 
2013-09-17 09:39:25 AM

flucto: I think you might be missing the flip side of the argument. For the most part, people understand and don't say much. The assholes who show up to lecture people are the minority, just as genuine asshole parents are. It doesn't happen that often but the discussion of it obviously strikes a nerve on both sides.

Unlike dog owners, who all need to be ground into free meatloaf and fed to the poor.


You need some more meat to grind in there to make good meatloaf.  I think a touch of ground cyclists will do also.
 
2013-09-17 09:40:39 AM

jfivealive: I think a touch of ground cyclists will do also.


Too much asshole spoils the loaf.
 
2013-09-17 09:40:52 AM
As a parent of 3 who has dealt with a few tantrums in my day, this commercial still cracks me up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM8ym0FqM_k

// Sorry if someone already posted it
// Youngest is now 8 and I do not miss the days of diapers, loss of sleep and the occassional tantrum
// For you non-parents or new parents you think that people say "It goes by so fast" are full of crap. They aren't and it DOES.
 
2013-09-17 09:41:26 AM

Trail of Dead: chubby muppet: As a new parent, I am very aware of my surroundings.  I would never stay in a store if my baby was having a meltdown.  You take her outside and if there's no hope of calming down, you go home.  Sure it's inconvenient, but rolling the dice is part of being a parent.  You take your chances, and many times it's good with a lot of people smiling and saying hi to you and your baby.  But on those bad days you pack it up and go home.  Very very simple.

Grocery stores are the last place on earth I would expect peace and quiet. Who cares? Your crying baby is drowning out the Billy Joel song on the Muzak machine, so thanks for that. You know what's more annoying in a grocery store? The husband/boyfriend who just stands with the cart in front of the tomatoes, staring at his blackberry, while the wife/girlfriend runs around doing the actual shopping. fark that guy. Useless.


I can understand being upset if someone doesn't take their screaming kid out of a movie or nice restaurant, because patrons paid to be there. They have a right to expect a certain atmosphere. Nobody has a right to expect serenity in a grocery store. If they do, their sense of entitlement is as overdeveloped as the snowflakes they most likely complain about constantly.
 
2013-09-17 09:43:11 AM

edmo: But the minute that kid pops out of your insides, you're a freaking expert.


No, you've got that entirely wrong.   You know everything about being the perfect parent UNTIL the kid pops out.  Then you realize you're just winging it.

And smug assholes who haven't had a kid, and still know everything, are happy to correct you every step of the way.
 
2013-09-17 09:43:53 AM

RumsfeldsReplacement: I do feel like I should at least point out that the author of this blog is somebody who declined to immunize his children against Hepatitis B because only people who have promiscuous sex get Hepatitis B.

So we're not talking about a rocket surgeon here.


That is ignorant; VACCINATE your FARKING KIDS, DOLT! It does not however make him any less correct on the article in question.
 
2013-09-17 09:43:56 AM

someonelse: Nobody has a right to expect serenity in a grocery store. If they do, their sense of entitlement is as overdeveloped as the snowflakes they most likely complain about constantly.


Well said.
 
2013-09-17 09:44:43 AM

RumsfeldsReplacement: I do feel like I should at least point out that the author of this blog is somebody who declined to immunize his children against Hepatitis B because only people who have promiscuous sex get Hepatitis B.

So we're not talking about a rocket surgeon here.


Yeah, and I've cringed at his dribblings in the past, but that doesn't make him wrong on this one. He might be an ignorant jerk but even ignorant jerks can be right on some things.
 
2013-09-17 09:45:23 AM

Falstaff: As a new father of twin girls, feel free to express any opinion you want.  I may laugh, I may tell you off.  Either way, we'll be good.

Do NOT, however, just walk up and start rubbing their cheek or stroking their hair.  I just about knocked a woman out last night for doing that.  Didn't say two words to me, just walks up and starts rubbing my youngest's head.  Creepy as hell.


Seriously, WTF.

I actually did one time grab the wrist of an elderly woman who reached for him and told her where to put that hand. Thinking about it later, I realized that I did it forcibly enough that I could have hurt her but I also realized I didn't care.

I honestly never realized how protective I'd be as a parent and I've come to find out I'm middle-of-the-road in that respect.
 
2013-09-17 09:47:47 AM

robohobo: Also, we're all forcefully made to contribute monetarily to children that aren't ours. So fark off, parents. YOU farking made the choice to make more people. In most cases, people you cannot afford.


Replace parents with liberals. How you like that now?

As a parent now, this article was right on the money. I don't care how awesome someone thinks they are, or their kids are, this crap happens.
 
2013-09-17 09:48:34 AM

MycroftHolmes: Oh, it was a declarative statement. I set forth two objective conditions, and allowed you to pick which one applied.I just chose not to go down the rabbit hole of trying to argue semantics with you when there were more amusing lines of argument.

So, let me see if I can get this straight-your original statement was that you don't need to be a parent to see bad parenting, when challenged you acknowledged that you essentially were a parent, then basically back up your argument by saying that when you were a parent, you didn't really now how to do it, but were able to do it based on programming.

So, your current contention is that parenting is innate and instinctive, and that you do not ever learn anything about parenting based on experience. So, let me ask you, in your time as a parent, did you learn anything about how to deal with the kids, did you alter the way you interacted with them? Did you learn what worked and what didn't based on trial and error, or did you, from day one, automatically know how to handle them?


Come on, it's not like you replied to me to imply that I was wise. I just responded to what you were trying to actually say. Yes, to the second paragraph. I did say "mostly programmed" for a reason. But what you learn isn't about raising the child but more of how to handle yourself. There's a lot of patience and controlling yourself involved. How children behave is mostly a result of how they treat them. If a parent is indignant and uncaring, would you expect something else from the kid.
 
2013-09-17 09:48:55 AM

forever_blowing_bubbles: Holy shiat! Something bad happened to a kid? Stop the farking presses.

HEY EVERYONE, Freudian Slipknot just found an article in a medical journal about parents being dumbasses. This means that all parents are stupid, FS is an expert on child rearing, and all of your arguments are invalid.

// Oh bless you kind sir! Bless your little heart!


I've been assured that these folks know more about child rearing than anyone who has not themselves had a child and are therefore beyond reproach.

/didn't start this argument
//just pointing out the HUGE flaw in the logic
///bad parents are easy to recognize, even to the childless
 
2013-09-17 09:49:12 AM

Mugato: jayhawk88: Falstaff: As a new father of twin girls, feel free to express any opinion you want.  I may laugh, I may tell you off.  Either way, we'll be good.

Do NOT, however, just walk up and start rubbing their cheek or stroking their hair.  I just about knocked a woman out last night for doing that.  Didn't say two words to me, just walks up and starts rubbing my youngest's head.  Creepy as hell.

The twins in public thing is one of the weirdest phenomenon ever. I can't say we ever had a "strangers touching" problem, but just everywhere, everyone has to know "do they run in your family" or "are they identical". It does lessen the older they get, though.

Maybe you guys can answer this. Do you dress your twins in identical outfits, if so, why? Is there a twin discount like buy one get one half off or something? And wouldn't that cause identity issues? Anyway, it's creepy, reminds me of The Shining.


Not that often, but it does happen sometimes. It's a mother thing for the most part I think, it looks "cute" and is "adorable". When I dressed them I didn't even bother to put them in matching clothes, which is pretty much the worst thing you could ever do.

Once they got old enough to have input into what they wore, they would want to dress alike themselves, but again, not that often.
 
2013-09-17 09:51:17 AM

RumsfeldsReplacement: I do feel like I should at least point out that the author of this blog is somebody who declined to immunize his children against Hepatitis B because only people who have promiscuous sex get Hepatitis B.

So we're not talking about a rocket surgeon here.


Even blind chickens find corn now and again.

Ye, I've also read some of his earlier blog posts. It's a hard thing to do to have to agree with him on something and praise his writing; but here I am. Doing hard things.

*snicker*
 
2013-09-17 09:52:16 AM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: I think the good parents hate the "Don't you dare give me a dirty look because I'm letting my five-year-old and my three-year-old chug Mountain Dew and play 'Scream Tag' in the aisles at this 10PM showing of 'I Spit On Your Grave'"-type parents more than the non-parents hate them.


Yes, I get pissed off at parents who are shiatty, not their kids. Yesterday I encountered a woman telling her kid, who couldn't have been more than three, to "shut up" in a really mean way. And the kid wasn't even being bad! He was whining a bit because he wanted a little attention from his mom. You can discipline your kids, be firm, be stern if that's the right approach, but to just be rude and nasty to a very young child like that earns you the shiatty parent award. Other ways to earn the award include refusing to discipline and being inconsiderate of other people who have to be exposed to your child's behavior.

My mother works at a public library and there are a lot of parents who treat the place like a daycare, letting their kids run wild and unsupervised, making a mess and destroying books, while the parent plops their lazy ass at a computer and does Facebook for a couple of hours. Yes, I try my very best to teach my kids not to be brats and be responsible for their actions, and I get very mad at these parents. Not the kids, the awful parents.

That being said, I am not going to get all bent out of shape when a kid acts up and a parent is having a hard time but doing the best they can. Sometimes it's easy to get overwhelmed. Not every kid is going to respond perfectly to your parenting technique and they can be a challenge. One of my kids is much more compliant and the other one is very strong willed. I have to discipline them differently. But whatever type of kid you have, I think instilling a sense of respect and consideration for others goes a long way toward curtailing bad behavior.

As for people who apparently hate all children no matter what, I feel sorry for them, I guess. They seem very sour, like those grumpy old people who chase you off their lawn.
 
2013-09-17 09:52:32 AM

Albinoman: MycroftHolmes: Oh, it was a declarative statement. I set forth two objective conditions, and allowed you to pick which one applied.I just chose not to go down the rabbit hole of trying to argue semantics with you when there were more amusing lines of argument.

So, let me see if I can get this straight-your original statement was that you don't need to be a parent to see bad parenting, when challenged you acknowledged that you essentially were a parent, then basically back up your argument by saying that when you were a parent, you didn't really now how to do it, but were able to do it based on programming.

So, your current contention is that parenting is innate and instinctive, and that you do not ever learn anything about parenting based on experience. So, let me ask you, in your time as a parent, did you learn anything about how to deal with the kids, did you alter the way you interacted with them? Did you learn what worked and what didn't based on trial and error, or did you, from day one, automatically know how to handle them?

Come on, it's not like you replied to me to imply that I was wise. I just responded to what you were trying to actually say. Yes, to the second paragraph. I did say "mostly programmed" for a reason. But what you learn isn't about raising the child but more of how to handle yourself. There's a lot of patience and controlling yourself involved. How children behave is mostly a result of how they treat them. If a parent is indignant and uncaring, would you expect something else from the kid.


Got it.  So, in your experience as a parent, learning how to manage your emotions to communicate and emote effectively is a learned behavior.  In what way is this not 'parenting'?
 
2013-09-17 09:56:28 AM

Freudian_slipknot: I've been assured that these folks know more about child rearing than anyone who has not themselves had a child and are therefore beyond reproach.


Tasty cherries on a nice bed of clean straw, no less.
 
2013-09-17 09:56:30 AM

Freudian_slipknot: forever_blowing_bubbles: Holy shiat! Something bad happened to a kid? Stop the farking presses.

HEY EVERYONE, Freudian Slipknot just found an article in a medical journal about parents being dumbasses. This means that all parents are stupid, FS is an expert on child rearing, and all of your arguments are invalid.

// Oh bless you kind sir! Bless your little heart!

I've been assured that these folks know more about child rearing than anyone who has not themselves had a child and are therefore beyond reproach.

/didn't start this argument
//just pointing out the HUGE flaw in the logic
///bad parents are easy to recognize, even to the childless


I am not making the case that there are not "bad parents" in this world ... However I am AMAZED you can tell a bad parent just by looking at them. You should take that shiat on the road and make millions. Can you do the same with jury duty as well? "Your honor, I ask you, if the defendant isn't guilty why is he so black?"

// I can see the HUGE flaw in your "logic" as well ...
 
2013-09-17 09:58:54 AM

Chinchillazilla: marsoft: Cozret: marsoft: Sounds like you really hold your parents in contempt.

Contempt, no. They are wonderful people who have always been there for me. Much like the parents of my friends for them, my co-workers, myself for mine, etc. However, many people seem to think that parenting grants magic knowledge or that having (or not having) children affects the truth value of a person's statements, and that I find amusing.

I think you are confusing experience with "magical knowledge".  Would you agree that for instance a zoo keeper making statements regarding the care and feeding of zoo animals opinion is more valid on that subject than that of someone who has never had even a pet?

Personally, I wouldn't, necessarily. I know a woman who runs a "bird rehab". Her birds are obviously atrociously cared-for. I've never had a kestrel, but I know how to tell one is not well taken care of.

So, keeping the metaphor going, some zookeepers don't know what they're doing. Some zookeepers get eaten by lions, and then even people who have never had a pet can rightly say "Wow, that guy was a bad zookeeper."


I had visions of bad parents being eaten by their toddlers.  Brilliant!
 
2013-09-17 09:59:32 AM

MycroftHolmes: Albinoman: MycroftHolmes: Oh, it was a declarative statement. I set forth two objective conditions, and allowed you to pick which one applied.I just chose not to go down the rabbit hole of trying to argue semantics with you when there were more amusing lines of argument.

So, let me see if I can get this straight-your original statement was that you don't need to be a parent to see bad parenting, when challenged you acknowledged that you essentially were a parent, then basically back up your argument by saying that when you were a parent, you didn't really now how to do it, but were able to do it based on programming.

So, your current contention is that parenting is innate and instinctive, and that you do not ever learn anything about parenting based on experience. So, let me ask you, in your time as a parent, did you learn anything about how to deal with the kids, did you alter the way you interacted with them? Did you learn what worked and what didn't based on trial and error, or did you, from day one, automatically know how to handle them?

Come on, it's not like you replied to me to imply that I was wise. I just responded to what you were trying to actually say. Yes, to the second paragraph. I did say "mostly programmed" for a reason. But what you learn isn't about raising the child but more of how to handle yourself. There's a lot of patience and controlling yourself involved. How children behave is mostly a result of how they treat them. If a parent is indignant and uncaring, would you expect something else from the kid.

Got it.  So, in your experience as a parent, learning how to manage your emotions to communicate and emote effectively is a learned behavior.  In what way is this not 'parenting'?


Cause it's already part of your personality or it isn't, it's not learned. That's why some people are bad parents. They aren't bad parents, they're bad people.
 
2013-09-17 09:59:35 AM

abhorrent1: How about you parents quit expecting everyone to change the way they live to accommodate your little farking brat?

Oh. You don't like what's on TV because your snowflake may see it? Here's a news flash: You TV has a power button!


You are also free to live somewhere that is child free. Lots of open space in China. Since having children is kind of part of human biology......

What is sounds like you are REALLY saying is that the human race should change because you don't feel you should ever be inconvenienced or annoyed.

/the TV does have a power button
//the worst thing it does is turn it ON
 
2013-09-17 10:01:03 AM
i306.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-17 10:01:04 AM

forever_blowing_bubbles: As a parent of 3 who has dealt with a few tantrums in my day, this commercial still cracks me up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM8ym0FqM_k

// Sorry if someone already posted it
// Youngest is now 8 and I do not miss the days of diapers, loss of sleep and the occassional tantrum
// For you non-parents or new parents you think that people say "It goes by so fast" are full of crap. They aren't and it DOES.


I've never seen that.  Funny!  Thanks.

/this is not snark.  (I added this because it reads like snark, but it's not)
 
2013-09-17 10:01:56 AM

forever_blowing_bubbles: However I am AMAZED you can tell a bad parent just by looking at them


You generally can actually tell just by looking at their kids, not at the parents.
 
2013-09-17 10:03:38 AM

marsoft: Chinchillazilla: marsoft: Cozret: marsoft: Sounds like you really hold your parents in contempt.

Contempt, no. They are wonderful people who have always been there for me. Much like the parents of my friends for them, my co-workers, myself for mine, etc. However, many people seem to think that parenting grants magic knowledge or that having (or not having) children affects the truth value of a person's statements, and that I find amusing.

I think you are confusing experience with "magical knowledge".  Would you agree that for instance a zoo keeper making statements regarding the care and feeding of zoo animals opinion is more valid on that subject than that of someone who has never had even a pet?

Personally, I wouldn't, necessarily. I know a woman who runs a "bird rehab". Her birds are obviously atrociously cared-for. I've never had a kestrel, but I know how to tell one is not well taken care of.

So, keeping the metaphor going, some zookeepers don't know what they're doing. Some zookeepers get eaten by lions, and then even people who have never had a pet can rightly say "Wow, that guy was a bad zookeeper."

I had visions of bad parents being eaten by their toddlers.  Brilliant!


Heh. Metaphor may have gotten a little wonky; but that would solve a lot of problems, wouldn't it?
 
2013-09-17 10:04:07 AM

Albinoman: MycroftHolmes: Albinoman: MycroftHolmes: Oh, it was a declarative statement. I set forth two objective conditions, and allowed you to pick which one applied.I just chose not to go down the rabbit hole of trying to argue semantics with you when there were more amusing lines of argument.

So, let me see if I can get this straight-your original statement was that you don't need to be a parent to see bad parenting, when challenged you acknowledged that you essentially were a parent, then basically back up your argument by saying that when you were a parent, you didn't really now how to do it, but were able to do it based on programming.

So, your current contention is that parenting is innate and instinctive, and that you do not ever learn anything about parenting based on experience. So, let me ask you, in your time as a parent, did you learn anything about how to deal with the kids, did you alter the way you interacted with them? Did you learn what worked and what didn't based on trial and error, or did you, from day one, automatically know how to handle them?

Come on, it's not like you replied to me to imply that I was wise. I just responded to what you were trying to actually say. Yes, to the second paragraph. I did say "mostly programmed" for a reason. But what you learn isn't about raising the child but more of how to handle yourself. There's a lot of patience and controlling yourself involved. How children behave is mostly a result of how they treat them. If a parent is indignant and uncaring, would you expect something else from the kid.

Got it.  So, in your experience as a parent, learning how to manage your emotions to communicate and emote effectively is a learned behavior.  In what way is this not 'parenting'?

Cause it's already part of your personality or it isn't, it's not learned. That's why some people are bad parents. They aren't bad parents, they're bad people.


So, now you are saying that people are inherently good or bad parents, after you stated that learning how to control your own behavior and have patience was critical to getting the children to respond positively.  So very confusing.   Let me see if I got this, you are either a good parent or bad parent based on programming, and you can change that programming by learning your to control your behavior, but you can't because it is part of your behavior and can't be learned.  Have I got that right?
 
2013-09-17 10:04:19 AM
Disregard semicolon. I was trying to hit the comma button, not be falsely pretentious.
 
2013-09-17 10:05:07 AM

Albinoman: MycroftHolmes: Albinoman: MycroftHolmes: Oh, it was a declarative statement. I set forth two objective conditions, and allowed you to pick which one applied.I just chose not to go down the rabbit hole of trying to argue semantics with you when there were more amusing lines of argument.

So, let me see if I can get this straight-your original statement was that you don't need to be a parent to see bad parenting, when challenged you acknowledged that you essentially were a parent, then basically back up your argument by saying that when you were a parent, you didn't really now how to do it, but were able to do it based on programming.

So, your current contention is that parenting is innate and instinctive, and that you do not ever learn anything about parenting based on experience. So, let me ask you, in your time as a parent, did you learn anything about how to deal with the kids, did you alter the way you interacted with them? Did you learn what worked and what didn't based on trial and error, or did you, from day one, automatically know how to handle them?

Come on, it's not like you replied to me to imply that I was wise. I just responded to what you were trying to actually say. Yes, to the second paragraph. I did say "mostly programmed" for a reason. But what you learn isn't about raising the child but more of how to handle yourself. There's a lot of patience and controlling yourself involved. How children behave is mostly a result of how they treat them. If a parent is indignant and uncaring, would you expect something else from the kid.

Got it.  So, in your experience as a parent, learning how to manage your emotions to communicate and emote effectively is a learned behavior.  In what way is this not 'parenting'?

Cause it's already part of your personality or it isn't, it's not learned. That's why some people are bad parents. They aren't bad parents, they're bad people.


Wow, this is a really stupid argument on your part. However, I would love for you to tell Christian Conservatives that being a parent is like being gay, you're just born that way. That would be one of the most epically, unintentionally funny threads ever with your idiocy and their asshattery!

Parenting is learned. PERIOD. I am 100x more patient than I was when my first child is born. I learned to love someone (actually someones as I have 3 children) MORE than myself. That's not something you are born with; humans are born self-centered, they have to learn empathy and compassion.
 
2013-09-17 10:05:10 AM

Cold_Sassy: My Mom had 4 children and, back in the day, you were still permitted to spank your child and that took care of most behavioral issues.  I honestly can't remember me or any of my 3 brothers ever throwing a fit.  I'm sure we must have, but you could count on old Mom lowering the boom and that stemmed most bad behavior.

Too bad some stupid jerkoffs had to make that a crime.


Same here.  Except I was one of seven. Yes, seven.  And my mom does wonder why parents can't control their kids.  If we went out to a restaurant as a family, and one of us acted up...guess who had to stay home the next time with a babysitter.  We had these things called "consequences" when we misbehaved.
 
2013-09-17 10:05:47 AM

Satan's Bunny Slippers: forever_blowing_bubbles: As a parent of 3 who has dealt with a few tantrums in my day, this commercial still cracks me up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM8ym0FqM_k

// Sorry if someone already posted it
// Youngest is now 8 and I do not miss the days of diapers, loss of sleep and the occassional tantrum
// For you non-parents or new parents you think that people say "It goes by so fast" are full of crap. They aren't and it DOES.

I've never seen that.  Funny!  Thanks.

/this is not snark.  (I added this because it reads like snark, but it's not)


I think this one is better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6XZ-0ns2yA
 
2013-09-17 10:05:48 AM

someonelse: Trail of Dead: chubby muppet: As a new parent, I am very aware of my surroundings.  I would never stay in a store if my baby was having a meltdown.  You take her outside and if there's no hope of calming down, you go home.  Sure it's inconvenient, but rolling the dice is part of being a parent.  You take your chances, and many times it's good with a lot of people smiling and saying hi to you and your baby.  But on those bad days you pack it up and go home.  Very very simple.

Grocery stores are the last place on earth I would expect peace and quiet. Who cares? Your crying baby is drowning out the Billy Joel song on the Muzak machine, so thanks for that. You know what's more annoying in a grocery store? The husband/boyfriend who just stands with the cart in front of the tomatoes, staring at his blackberry, while the wife/girlfriend runs around doing the actual shopping. fark that guy. Useless.

I can understand being upset if someone doesn't take their screaming kid out of a movie or nice restaurant, because patrons paid to be there. They have a right to expect a certain atmosphere. Nobody has a right to expect serenity in a grocery store. If they do, their sense of entitlement is as overdeveloped as the snowflakes they most likely complain about constantly.



I agree with all the above.  Again as I've said, I don't have kids of my own, BUT the last damn place I expect peace is the grocery store.  What annoys me most?  It's a tossup between cows who park their cart in the middle of the aisle and wander up and down, or the other idiot at the deli who wants a taste of everything before deciding on their 1/4 lb of plain turkey.  Seriously?  You've never tasted ham before?  This isn't a lunch counter, GTFO.

Small kids are the LEAST of any issue I may have with the grocery store.  Teens however....well we can all agree that teens are a species unto themselves, and convention does not apply. :)

However, I do have an issue with those godawfully huge "car karts".  Can we all please agree those things are terrible?

(raised my stepson from 5-18.  Teens, I know about)
 
2013-09-17 10:06:06 AM

jayhawk88: Mugato: jayhawk88: Falstaff: As a new father of twin girls, feel free to express any opinion you want.  I may laugh, I may tell you off.  Either way, we'll be good.

Do NOT, however, just walk up and start rubbing their cheek or stroking their hair.  I just about knocked a woman out last night for doing that.  Didn't say two words to me, just walks up and starts rubbing my youngest's head.  Creepy as hell.

The twins in public thing is one of the weirdest phenomenon ever. I can't say we ever had a "strangers touching" problem, but just everywhere, everyone has to know "do they run in your family" or "are they identical". It does lessen the older they get, though.

Maybe you guys can answer this. Do you dress your twins in identical outfits, if so, why? Is there a twin discount like buy one get one half off or something? And wouldn't that cause identity issues? Anyway, it's creepy, reminds me of The Shining.

Not that often, but it does happen sometimes. It's a mother thing for the most part I think, it looks "cute" and is "adorable". When I dressed them I didn't even bother to put them in matching clothes, which is pretty much the worst thing you could ever do.

Once they got old enough to have input into what they wore, they would want to dress alike themselves, but again, not that often.



Thanks for your reply. I have a friend who does this to their twins and without judging, I think it's farked up. I was just wondering what the thought process was behind people who do it.

Their names don't rhyme, do they?
 
2013-09-17 10:06:37 AM
UtopianDevil: ...

My two cents on parenting - be consistent. Never let them manipulate you, blackmail you, embarrass you or do anything else that makes you change the rules. I don't have a tenth of the problems with my daughter that her mother has and I honestly think it is because she knows the expectations are consistent and punishment will be swift and sure.

This is what I do. The problem is that I'm still married to the mother. She's not consistent. Also, the two girls next door throw fits and get their way, so my daughter sees that. My son has not had a meltdown in public that I recall.
 
2013-09-17 10:10:31 AM

Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion


Last night I was flying with my three year old daughter. She didn't cry once.

She did stand up in her seat. She'd been sitting in a car and on a previous flight most of the day, so I didn't blam her for wanting to stretch her legs.

Standing, her head came up to about the same height as my head. But behind us was an older couple. The woman kept sucking her teeth in annoyance and muttering, 'sit down,' in that cowardly level of voice between actually saying it and keeping it to yourself.

All I can say about that woman is, 'what an asshole.'
 
2013-09-17 10:10:45 AM

marsoft: Satan's Bunny Slippers: forever_blowing_bubbles: As a parent of 3 who has dealt with a few tantrums in my day, this commercial still cracks me up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM8ym0FqM_k

// Sorry if someone already posted it
// Youngest is now 8 and I do not miss the days of diapers, loss of sleep and the occassional tantrum
// For you non-parents or new parents you think that people say "It goes by so fast" are full of crap. They aren't and it DOES.

I've never seen that.  Funny!  Thanks.

/this is not snark.  (I added this because it reads like snark, but it's not)

I think this one is better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6XZ-0ns2yA


I like mine better but that was pretty good!
 
2013-09-17 10:14:18 AM
marsoft:

I think this one is better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6XZ-0ns2yA

I actually did something very similar when I had taken my oldest niece shopping when she was about 5.  (She's now 36)...she started up, and I just mimicked everything she did, but more animated and louder.  I'm sure the folks in Farm & Fleet got quite a show of my then young 20 something self jumping up and down, flapping my arms and whining about how I wanted a sparkle pony for my birthday and didn't get one.

Confusion gave way to giggles, then we were done.   Took maybe 3 minutes.
 
2013-09-17 10:14:21 AM

mightybaldking: edmo: But the minute that kid pops out of your insides, you're a freaking expert.

No, you've got that entirely wrong.   You know everything about being the perfect parent UNTIL the kid pops out.  Then you realize you're just winging it.

And smug assholes who haven't had a kid, and still know everything, are happy to correct you every step of the way.


That.  My kid is 3.  My wife and I waiting, by choice, for quite a while before having kids.  I'm 42 and and she's 40 currently.  I think we were way more mature and prepared than most parents but there were still many surprises (and there still are).

My boy is very good.  He has his moments but we're very vigilant to make sure he doesn't disturb.  If he is cranky or upset, we don't hang around and expose him to others.  When he was between 1 and 2, I remember going to see my mother in-law on her birthday and everyone, on the spur of the moment, wanted to go out to eat.  My son didn't have a nap and became an agitated noise maker at the restaurant.  I immediately took him to the restaurant entrance where I spent the next hour and a half (he was *not* going to sit in relative calm).

Still, you get idiots.  Last late spring I was in REI, just he and I...a week away from his 3rd birthday.  I went to check out and there was a line.  I am always hyper vigilant about waiting to be called forward ( row of checkers and such).  My son is asking me a million questions, quietly and calmly mind you, but most of my attention is on being called forward.  When I get up to the front, there is one checker free but he was on the phone.  So, glance down for literally 3 seconds (*if* that) to placate my son and some 20-ish semi-fitness chick about five people back says with a smug looking smile on her face, "excuse me...I think *he's* ready for you", and points to the checker on the phone who didn't look like he made any indication that he was ready for a customer.  Thinking that my timing may have been bad and I missed him motioning me over, I walk down to him....where I stood for almost five minutes while he continued his phone conversation with a customer.

Some people are indeed just dicks.  I'm sure this idiot girl just sized me up as one of "those" parents and waited for the earliest opportunity.  If I had my head on straight, I would have made a show and let her have my place in line and just moved to the back of the line...or at least said something to the smug asshole.
 
2013-09-17 10:16:58 AM

earthwirm: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

Actually, no you don't. Deal with it.


Actually, yes, she does.  Deal with it.
 
2013-09-17 10:19:22 AM

Doc Daneeka: max_pooper: Doc Daneeka: +1000000 points for the blogger.

Every jackass is an expert on parenting before they have any kids of their own. When they do, they discover that parenting is not as simple or as black-and-white as they thought. Moreover, they discover that their priority is always the safety, discipline, and well-being of their child, over the comfort, convenience, and opinions of random passersby.

Except discipline creates comfort and conveniences for a passerby. Lack of discipline fosters opinions in a passerby.

The problem is that non-parents too often equate "discipline" with "quiet and meekly behaved at all times."  It's not so.

Sometimes a parent disciplining a child results in explosive outbursts and tantrums.  Sometimes it's because the child wants something (candy, a toy, or to go somewhere else) and the parent is holding firm in saying no.  It's easy to placate a child and prevent tantrums by giving them what they want all the time, but that is not discipline.

What you perceive as "lack of discipline" may in fact be the parent disciplining their child, asserting their authority and teaching the child that they do not always get everything they want, and that a tantrum is not an effective way of influencing their parents' actions.  Despite what you think, parents are not oblivious to their child throwing a tantrum - they are painfully aware of it and likely embarrassed - but they are dealing with it in the best way they know how and trying to discourage (not reward) that kind of behavior.


^THIS. When I tell my children "no" to something, they cry and get mad. However, they learn from it, and the temper tantrums decrease as they mature and learn their boundaries. If I give into them to keep them from crying at every inopportune time, then they learn to be WORSE in public because they then realize they can always get away with it as long as they threaten mom with being embarassed. Since I care about my kids learning right from wrong, I will suffer some embarassment.
 
2013-09-17 10:19:42 AM

earthwirm: TalenLee: earthwirm: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

Actually, no you don't. Deal with it.

That's just a flat out lie. I get to have an opinion on anything. Now, the idea that a person doesn't get to express their opinion because you don't think it's justified or morally acceptable or whatever is fine, but I'm fairly sure that telling them their opinion is flat-out not allowed to exist is, at the very least, dickish.

No, it's called humanity. Instead of having a rude demeanor and making everyone days bad , you can choose to lighten the mood or help. Being a jack wagon doesn't and won't help.


That's good advice.  You should try it some time.
 
2013-09-17 10:21:00 AM

TalenLee: earthwirm: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

Actually, no you don't. Deal with it.

That's just a flat out lie. I get to have an opinion on anything. Now, the idea that a person doesn't get to express their opinion because you don't think it's justified or morally acceptable or whatever is fine, but I'm fairly sure that telling them their opinion is flat-out not allowed to exist is, at the very least, dickish.


But...he's a PARENT! It's sooooo haaaarrrrddd!!!!
 
2013-09-17 10:22:58 AM

lostcat: Standing, her head came up to about the same height as my head. But behind us was an older couple. The woman kept sucking her teeth in annoyance and muttering, 'sit down,' in that cowardly level of voice between actually saying it and keeping it to yourself.

All I can say about that woman is, 'what an asshole.'


Perhaps she was an asshole, and perhaps she was concerned for the safety of your unrestrained child in the case of turbulence.

I do find it amusing that you call her using her voice cowardly, but you didn't turn around to say anything yourself.

You feel justified because, well, it's your story.  That's how it happens.  That doesn't necessarily mean that there's not another side and that it's not just as justified.
 
2013-09-17 10:23:51 AM
Actually, it doesn't really bother me unless they do nothing about it or look at you and laugh like, "Isn't my baby adorable? LOVE HIM!". No, he isn't and I don't.

And as someone posted above, it is vaguely annoying when I have to cover for everyone in the office with some kid related thing they have to get to. Obviously if the kid has a doctor's appointment, go, of course. I'm an asshole but I'm not a farking asshole. But every Friday is a half day with these people for their kids going to practice various things. I love my job so I don't care if I have to cover for them but it's the principle. If I asked for an hour off to catch a flight to Vegas I'd be lynched.
 
2013-09-17 10:25:22 AM

Cyclometh: marsoft: Cyclometh: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

No, you do not.

Yes she does.  She just should not be dickish about it if she chooses to share it with the parent.

That's misconstruing what she said by reading the letter of it as opposed to the intent.



So, you can read minds, then?
 
2013-09-17 10:27:22 AM

Fuggin Bizzy: There's no indignation like righteous indignation.


And the great thing about threads like this is that BOTH sides have righteous indignation in spades.
 
2013-09-17 10:28:50 AM
Time to make more popcorn, so I'll leave one more tidbit:

I see a lot of people saying that a screaming, tantrum-throwing child is the sign of a bad parent. And also that ignoring the tantrum is not the answer. Both of these opinions are incorrect. Even the best parent in the world will have to deal with a tantrum in public on occassion. And if you respond to the outburst, you give credence, and therefor power, to the behavior. The best response (in my experience) it to acknowledge the fact that the child is behaving rudely and tell them to stop. Ignore the kid after that, and they will stop without you giving them anymore power.
 
2013-09-17 10:30:36 AM

Satan's Bunny Slippers: marsoft:

I think this one is better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6XZ-0ns2yA

I actually did something very similar when I had taken my oldest niece shopping when she was about 5.  (She's now 36)...she started up, and I just mimicked everything she did, but more animated and louder.  I'm sure the folks in Farm & Fleet got quite a show of my then young 20 something self jumping up and down, flapping my arms and whining about how I wanted a sparkle pony for my birthday and didn't get one.

Confusion gave way to giggles, then we were done.   Took maybe 3 minutes.


Is F & F just in the Midwest?  I love farm and Fleet - dunno why exactly - thinks it's just that they have a little of everything I think I need, except guns.  Think I've only seen it here in Illinois and also southern Wisconsin.
 
2013-09-17 10:30:45 AM

ciberido: And the great thing about threads like this is that BOTH sides have righteous indignation in spades.


They're so focused on their indignation that I couldn't even get a bite on grinding dog owners into free meatloaf.
 
2013-09-17 10:32:28 AM

Bslim: Keep your filthy crotchfruit at home.


You're not even trying for subtle. If you are going to troll, you need to learn how to do it right.

0/10 I blame your parents.
 
2013-09-17 10:33:58 AM
It seems to me that stores should offer a "cart check" service. You can go to the customer service desk, pay them a couple of bucks, and they'll hold your cart for 24 hours (and return refrigerated foods to the appropriate places). You can then come back, they'll retrieve whatever foods had to be returned, and you can pick back up where you left off.

Although I see the major use of this as getting screaming kids out of the store, it could also be useful for handling minor medical emergencies, unforeseen trips to the ATM, and other possible mishaps that come up from time to time.
 
2013-09-17 10:35:08 AM

robohobo: Also, we're all forcefully made to contribute monetarily to children that aren't ours. So fark off, parents. YOU farking made the choice to make more people. In most cases, people you cannot afford.


We were all forced to monetarily contribute to YOU when YOU WERE A CHILD, and you weren't ours, so you fark off.  How convenient that you want to change the rules on how society tolerates/supports children now that you've gotten yours.  This is just more of the "I've got mine, fark you" society.  Non parents think they are sitting high above it all with their hands clean, like they aren't ever creating inconveniences for anyone else so they should get the same in return - not so!  You were all children once before too, and in addition to that, plenty of non-parents have lots of annoying qualities that the rest of society (the vast majority of which are parents, were parents, or will be parents) has to put up with.
 
2013-09-17 10:35:52 AM

vudukungfu:  Crib midgets. Crotch fruit. Sex trophies. Crotch droppings. Crumb snatchers. Womb rats. Ankle biters. Snowflakes. Spawn.
Miss any?


You forgot one. Future caregivers for us at 75.
 
2013-09-17 10:37:21 AM
Satan's Bunny Slippers:
I agree with all the above.  Again as I've said, I don't have kids of my own, BUT the last damn place I expect peace is the grocery store.  What annoys me most?  It's a tossup between cows who park their cart in the middle of the aisle and wander up and down, or the other idiot at the deli who wants a taste of everything before deciding on their 1/4 lb of plain turkey.  Seriously?  You've never tasted ham before?  This isn't a lunch counter, GTFO.

Small kids are the LEAST of any issue I may have with the grocery store.  Teens however....well we can all agree that teens are a species unto themselves, and convention does not apply. :)

However, I do have an issue with those godawfully huge "car karts ...


I still hate the ones that are low to the ground and always avoid them, even with the protests of my kid...they're just too cumbersome and I like to be out of the way in the store.  My primary grocery has these car carts where the upper *back* part of the cart (the part where the push handle is located) is a car with two steering wheels.  They're still a little bigger than the normal cart but their easier to keep out of the way.

But yeah, I do most of the grocery shopping and the biggest problem in the store is other people and not kids.  Hell, the worst "kid" incident are parents who bring several 6-9 year olds and let them run about and that's not *near* as bad as many people in the store.  People who block aisles just piss me off to no end.  It takes minimal effort to keep your damn cart off to the side or out of the way.  I understand that at times someone may have their cart right in front of what I need and that's not a big deal.  But dead stopping your shiat right next to a aisle display or another person with five people navigating up the aisle?....push your shiat to the side and walk the five farking feet between your cart and what you need.
 
2013-09-17 10:40:19 AM
There are places you can go if you want food without the child experience, they are called bars and expensive restaurants.
If you are biatching about kids in a grocery store, a family restaurant, the bus or in a park
you really properly need to shut the hell up.
 
2013-09-17 10:40:45 AM

UberDave: their


"They're" dammit...
 
2013-09-17 10:41:19 AM

togaman2k: The public temper tantrums aren't a problem because they will happen to most kids at some point.  I just carry on with my business.

It really grinds my gears when it is the parents with <5 yr olds at the Dark Knight


This is where I think non-parents - along with everyone else - really do have a solid point.  Try taking that up a level of irritation when you're a parent with a child the same age - a parent that never takes their kids to the movies with them because they know how rude it is, so don't really get out except once in a long while ... and then you do get that night out with your spouse.  So, you've gotten the babysitter, made plans, and now you are about to watch a movie in peace and quiet without the kids ... and then some asshole comes in with a kid that talks a cries through the whole goddamn thing.
 
2013-09-17 10:41:37 AM
I am a parent. The bottom line is kids freak out sometimes, and there is very little you can do about it. You can avoid public places where you don't need to go or where you might ruin other people's enjoyment of the place. For example, I recently went to a play in the park, and this toddler ran/stumbled on to the stage no less than FIFTEEN times. It was horribly distracting. Each time, the mother would stand up, walk on to the stage, and bring the toddler back and let go of her. She didn't move to the back of the audience. She didn't leave. She didn't hold on to the toddler. I was sitting with a mother, and she was a bit more understanding than I was, but she was still pretty annoyed.

My point is there are instances where parents aren't necessarily bad, but they need to better control their kids. A grocery store is not really a place where others' experience is destroyed because of a wild kid. You can leave the aisle. You are only there for a temporary time. It's not a nice restaurant. It IS someplace where parents with little children HAVE TO go. So, deal with it.
 
2013-09-17 10:42:51 AM

robohobo: Also, we're all forcefully made to contribute monetarily to children that aren't ours. So fark off, parents. YOU farking made the choice to make more people. In most cases, people you cannot afford.


Just think, when you were young you were probably that tantrum-throwing, self-centered, immature, screaming little child and now ... well, now you're old enough to use a keyboard. Good on you, never grow up!

// Waaaaaaahhh, children crying make me cranky. Waaaaaaahhhh! Need my bah-bah!
 
2013-09-17 10:43:08 AM

Jack Mackbell: I'm generally tolerant of kids in most places. Public parks, grocery stores, the bus, planes... whatever. I can tune them out.

However, I will not tolerate screeching children in the movie theater. That is the one place where without a shadow of a doubt, a person who opts to remain in their seat with a disruptive child is an inconsiderate asshole. There is absolutely no excuse, no justification for that.


It depends, are you on your third screening of Equestria Girls? If so, cut the kids a little slack.
 
2013-09-17 10:43:54 AM

ciberido: earthwirm: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

Actually, no you don't. Deal with it.

Actually, yes, she does.  Deal with it.


She can get the fark off the bus......

/Walking vs crying child!
//Let the games begin!
///Two men enter, one man leaves!
////Who runs Bartertown?!?
//Personal slashie best!
 
2013-09-17 10:44:57 AM

Freudian_slipknot: forever_blowing_bubbles: However I am AMAZED you can tell a bad parent just by looking at them

You generally can actually tell just by looking at their kids, not at the parents.


That's complete and utter crap. You do realize that children have their own personalities and are individuals, right? Not every child will be perfect even with perfect parenting, and that's just for the normal kids. Throw in disorders such as autism or ADHD, and it's even harder. Kids make mistakes...as a parent, you try to teach them not to, but some kids just have to find out for themselves, and some never learn. A friend of mine in high school was killed in a car crash because he was driving without a license and speeding...but his parents were great parents. He just made a stupid (and fatal) mistake, because he was a kid (15). And only smug a**holes could look at that and say "well, if they were better parents, he wouldn't have died doing so stupid". Most parents would look at that and say "oh god, I hope my kid doesn't do that", simply because you KNOW there's no way to watch them 24-7-365.
 
2013-09-17 10:45:02 AM
im still being quoted! it's notoriety of a kind

i think we can all agree that even worse than screeching brats are entitled mommies who won't angle their double buggy 1 degree off the middle oof the pavement as you approach in the opposite direction because THEY'RE A PARENT AND THEREFORE THE MOST SPECIAL PEOPLE IN THE UNIVERSE

also wtf is up with this font?
 
2013-09-17 10:45:56 AM

ReapTheChaos: When my kids were at the age where they would do shiat like that in public, my wife or I would take them outside and wait for them to calm down before returning. Parents these days simply have no farking respect for the people around them. They feel if they have to listen to their spoiled brat throwing a fit, everyone else should have to as well.

If you're in the damn grocery store and your kid is throwing a fit, it's you job as a parent to leave, not drag him through the place kicking and screaming. Yes it's inconvenient. Yes it means your schedule is going to be thrown off. So what, dinner gets on the table late that night, that's life. The rest of the world should not have to put up with your brats poor behavior.


This is exactly what I did when my two kids were toddlers. They are my choice, they are my responsibility, including teaching them civility. And guess what, Precious Snowflake Producers, three year-olds CAN learn this. It is not easy. It requires discipline and planning. You must allow yourself extra time to do everything. You sacrifice some things because you know you will not have the time/space to deal with a melt-down. You get a babysitter because Little Mackenzy doesn't need to go see the Matisse exhibit (plus it'll bore the shiat out of him). Buy him the poster at the museum gift shop and hang it in his room.

Take 'em out of where they're making a scene, take them to a safe place outside the store, out of the flow of people, and say, "OK, go ahead, make your scene now, I'll wait."

They'll look up at you with a "fark you" expression and say, "no." Then you go back to your business and when they start to fuss you say, "Do you need to go outside?" Guaran-damn-tee you they tighten that shiat right up.
 
2013-09-17 10:47:26 AM

Big_Fat_Liar: Satan's Bunny Slippers: marsoft:

I think this one is better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6XZ-0ns2yA

I actually did something very similar when I had taken my oldest niece shopping when she was about 5.  (She's now 36)...she started up, and I just mimicked everything she did, but more animated and louder.  I'm sure the folks in Farm & Fleet got quite a show of my then young 20 something self jumping up and down, flapping my arms and whining about how I wanted a sparkle pony for my birthday and didn't get one.

Confusion gave way to giggles, then we were done.   Took maybe 3 minutes.

Is F & F just in the Midwest?  I love farm and Fleet - dunno why exactly - thinks it's just that they have a little of everything I think I need, except guns.  Think I've only seen it here in Illinois and also southern Wisconsin.


Yes, they are only in Illinois, Wisconsin, and Iowa.  My favorite store of all time.  Get tires, pick up some snacks, maybe some new tennies and a couple shirts, new grill, tires are done, go home.

The one closest to me used to sell guns, but stopped a few years ago.  Long before the current crop of gun issues became headlines.  I don't know why.  I think they still sell ammo, but don't quote me on that.
 
2013-09-17 10:47:31 AM

Falstaff: As a new father of twin girls, feel free to express any opinion you want.  I may laugh, I may tell you off.  Either way, we'll be good.

Do NOT, however, just walk up and start rubbing their cheek or stroking their hair.  I just about knocked a woman out last night for doing that.  Didn't say two words to me, just walks up and starts rubbing my youngest's head.  Creepy as hell.


I freakin' hate that.  Absolutely.  Even worse is when they grab my son's hand, which he has a propensity to stick in his mouth.  Get your goddamn filthy hands off my son's hands, no matter how careful we are, he eventually sneaks them into his mouth, don't want your farking salmonella, shigella, ETEC sending him to the hospital with the runs.

I will sometimes accept them touching his little feet if they are polite, talk to me, and ask first.  I know babies are irresistible, even more so that my kids are the cutest kids in the world (sorry, I'm sure your twins come in a close second and third!), so it's a cross I have to bear.
 
2013-09-17 10:48:33 AM

onzmadi: There are places you can go if you want food without the child experience, they are called bars and expensive restaurants.
If you are biatching about kids in a grocery store, a family restaurant, the bus or in a park
you really properly need to shut the hell up.


Pretty much.

I don't take my toddler to nice restaurants (anything nicer than a diner or a Friday's).  I don't take him to the movies (except a couple times to a G-rated animated film, matinee showing).

But you can't just keep kids at home all the time.  Sometimes you need to shop.  Sometimes you need to travel.  Sometimes a plane is the only way (or only practical way) of getting where you need to go.  And sometimes even the best-behaved kid is going to have a meltdown.  It happens.  People muttering for parents to "control their kids" don't realize that kids can't be "controlled" like some puppet.  Kids have a mind of their own.  The best you can do is tell your child what is acceptable and what isn't, reinforce positive behaviors, and discourage anti-social behaviors.
 
2013-09-17 10:52:42 AM

Gimmick: Perfect for baby showers:


I don't know or want to know what you are planning to do to the dog, but you are not doing it in my house.
 
2013-09-17 10:52:53 AM

ph0rk: Civchic: So, maybe that parent on that plane HAD planned well.  Had scheduled those optimum hours, brought snacks and games to weather a flight or two - and the airlines s*&t all over it.  Hm?

Ok, drug them when they board the plane instead.


My coworker told me a story about his Dr. uncle drugging his kid on a flight.  The kid had a paradoxical reaction to the tranquilizer and ended up running around the plane punching people.
 
2013-09-17 10:53:04 AM
1) I can't understand how hard parenting is because I don't have kids, so I just wish you parents good luck with your kids, and that they aren't difficult in public. Having said that...

2) For the love of heaven, would you parents pushing these monstrously sized strollers everywhere learn how to push and use them? I'm beyond annoyed having my foot run over by some parent just pushing the stroller any which way. My feet are not just part of the scenery.
 
2013-09-17 10:53:07 AM
UberDave:

I still hate the ones that are low to the ground and always avoid them, even with the protests of my kid...they're just too cumbersome and I like to be out of the way in the store.  -------

The store I go to has the low to the ground, two kids sit in FRONT of the basket part near the floor with steering wheels in front of them.  Damn things are probably close to 6 feet long, and at least 12 inches wider than a standard cart.  I hates them, I do.

 But yeah, I do most of the grocery shopping and the biggest problem in the store is other people and not kids.  --------not *near* as bad as many people in the store.  People who block aisles just piss me off to no end.  -------  I understand that at times someone may have their cart right in front of what I need and that's not a big deal.  But dead stopping your shiat right next to a aisle display or another person with five people navigating up the aisle?....push your shiat to the side and walk the five farking feet between your cart and what you need.


ALL of that.  Stupid adults ruin much more of my time in stores than kids ever did, or will.
 
2013-09-17 10:53:58 AM

Lady J: im still being quoted! it's notoriety of a kind

i think we can all agree that even worse than screeching brats are entitled mommies who won't angle their double buggy 1 degree off the middle oof the pavement as you approach in the opposite direction because THEY'RE A PARENT AND THEREFORE THE MOST SPECIAL PEOPLE IN THE UNIVERSE

also wtf is up with this font?


You are projecting so hard if we shoved a DVD in your ass we could watch it from the moon:
"Look at that SELF-CENTERED biatch, why should I move for her pushing a 40 pound stroller with a baby in it?!? Fark you!!!"
 
2013-09-17 10:56:55 AM
YOUR ANECDOTE IS FAKE. NONE OF THAT HAPPENED.
 
2013-09-17 10:59:07 AM

Satan's Bunny Slippers: Yes, they are only in Illinois, Wisconsin, and Iowa.


We had Farm and Fleet in Ohio when I was a kid. All the ones I know of were eventually replaced by TSC stores. And TSC sucks.
 
2013-09-17 11:01:55 AM

Mugato: I have a niece and nephew I take out sometimes and I've never had any problems with their throwing a tantrum or acting up. Take some parenting classes, get a nanny or go to the nearest PetSmart and buy a muzzle. Failing all of that, don't get all indignant when someone expresses annoyance at your shrieking spawn.No one should yell at you or anything but don't get all uppity if someone's natural reaction is to look annoyed in your direction.


Yeah, that's just like being a parent when you get to give them back once they get tired and cranky. If you really haven't had a problem, then chances are mom or dad was the one who had to handle the tantrums or acting up and used that to get them straightened out before you got them. That's kudos to them, not you.

EVERY parent has at least one or two meltdowns in a public place. EVERY parent. You might not have any beyond that, and the one you have may or may not be short (no guarantees on the first one) depending upon how you handled that teachable moment as a parent, but there's ALWAYS the first time. There is no exception to that rule because every child has to learn at some point that they can't have everything they want, and every child has to learn that Mommy and Daddy don't give in to their demands just because there are other people around. A fully functioning child does not exist that hasn't tried it. If you teach your child that he or she can have their way by acting like a tool, then you are a bad parent, and you're encouraging them to act like a tool every time you go out rather than a few times.

Anyone who has ever had a child and says that they've never had a problem is either oblivious (and a real bad parent/caretaker) or lying.
 
2013-09-17 11:04:37 AM

JuniorII


I see you have your TotalFark membership all up to date....

Wait you don't? Maybe all that money you brag about is imaginary......


Yes, the only thing standing between me and TF is financial hardship.

It's not that I don't want to read hundreds of poorly constructed, redlit headlines and don't want to observe the relentless CJs in TFD. It's that I cannot spare $5 per month.

Truly you have a dizzying intellect.
 
2013-09-17 11:05:49 AM

Joe USer: vudukungfu:  Crib midgets. Crotch fruit. Sex trophies. Crotch droppings. Crumb snatchers. Womb rats. Ankle biters. Snowflakes. Spawn.
Miss any?

You forgot one. Future caregivers for us at 75.


You plan on being an invalid at 75?
 
2013-09-17 11:06:08 AM

forever_blowing_bubbles: Lady J: im still being quoted! it's notoriety of a kind

i think we can all agree that even worse than screeching brats are entitled mommies who won't angle their double buggy 1 degree off the middle oof the pavement as you approach in the opposite direction because THEY'RE A PARENT AND THEREFORE THE MOST SPECIAL PEOPLE IN THE UNIVERSE

also wtf is up with this font?

You are projecting so hard if we shoved a DVD in your ass we could watch it from the moon:
"Look at that SELF-CENTERED biatch, why should I move for her pushing a 40 pound stroller with a baby in it?!? Fark you!!!"


as a parent with a kid who still rides a stroller, I actually side with her.  I don't propose people should move off the sidewalk or anything, but at the very least move to one g-damn edge of the sidewalk to let other people past.  Add to that the fact that people are getting huge double-wide jogging strollers (even though the most obviously, don't ever go out for runs) and then blocking sidewalks with them, it's rather annoying, particularly in parts of town with crowded sidewalks.  The worst is when the take the huge strollers into some tiny mom-and-pop store somewhere and create chaos because they don't fit and are in everybody's way.  Take the kid out, carry them, leave the stroller outside.  If your kid is sleeping, too bad, stay outside with them and the stroller while your wife checks out the store.  if there's something worth seeing, she can come take your place while you go in and see stuff.

This isn't asking much, just a general sense of consideration for other people's times and day.  Yes, you have a child, yes, having a child is inconvenient and hard work.  But no, it doesn't mean you get to ignore the needs of others.  Other people use the sidewalk, move your sport utility stroller off the middle, and other people like to shop in little shops in tourist areas, keep your stroller outside and carry the kid in.  How do I know this isn't asking much?  Because I do this myself, and have always done it.

That being said, I do very much welcome the occasional stranger that will hold a door open while I'm trying to open a door and push a stroller through.  Or people who otherwise try to make my life a bit easier when my arms are full and I am pushing a stroller as well.
 
2013-09-17 11:07:24 AM

Kristoph57: This is gonna be good when the "my kids are angels" crowd shows up.


Those are usually the ones with the worst behaved kids, in my experience, because you can't correct a problem if you are oblivious to it. I have a niece who is a prime example. She's generally a spoiled bully. Gets what she wants and orders other kids around. Her mom will look you in the eye dead serious and tell you that she's never had a problem with her. That little terror is eight years old and STILL throws tantrums whenever she doesn't get what she wants-- and Mom gives in to them.
 
2013-09-17 11:10:01 AM

max_pooper: marsoft: Cozret: marsoft: Sounds like you really hold your parents in contempt.

Contempt, no. They are wonderful people who have always been there for me. Much like the parents of my friends for them, my co-workers, myself for mine, etc. However, many people seem to think that parenting grants magic knowledge or that having (or not having) children affects the truth value of a person's statements, and that I find amusing.

I think you are confusing experience with "magical knowledge".  Would you agree that for instance a zoo keeper making statements regarding the care and feeding of zoo animals opinion is more valid on that subject than that of someone who has never had even a pet?

Zookeepers are professionals who have had professional training in the care of animals. Idiot parents, not so much.


My favorite line in the film "Parenthood" (1989):
(Keanu Reeves) Tod: "You know, Mrs. Buckman, you need a license to buy a dog, to drive a car - hell, you even need a license to catch a fish. But they'll let any butt-reaming asshole be a father. "
 
2013-09-17 11:12:06 AM

abhorrent1: How about you parents quit expecting everyone to change the way they live to accommodate your little farking brat?

Oh. You don't like what's on TV because your snowflake may see it? Here's a news flash: You TV has a power button!


While I agree with you on television, what does that have to do with the issue brought up in TFA?
 
2013-09-17 11:13:01 AM
Parenting in public is very easy if you make the slightest effort.  Make sure the kid is well napped, and be consistent with your expectations, and chat with them as you shop.  They will then never act up in public.  It worked for me.

That being said, it's entirely pointless for anyone to point out bad parenting publicly.  They either get insulted, or they just don't care.
 
2013-09-17 11:13:05 AM

supayoda: Kristoph57: This is gonna be good when the "my kids are angels" crowd shows up.

Those are usually the ones with the worst behaved kids, in my experience, because you can't correct a problem if you are oblivious to it. I have a niece who is a prime example. She's generally a spoiled bully. Gets what she wants and orders other kids around. Her mom will look you in the eye dead serious and tell you that she's never had a problem with her. That little terror is eight years old and STILL throws tantrums whenever she doesn't get what she wants-- and Mom gives in to them.


They rationalize any bad behaviors as "well of course she does that, she's got X syndrome." Or, "you must have put factory processed wheat in your cookies, she never does that with my organic, cruelty-free, Peruvian K'khabba-grain cookies."
 
2013-09-17 11:14:36 AM

Tat'dGreaser: I don't understand people who hate children so much. You do know you were that screaming a-hole at one point in your life right?


I'm not sure they do.

There's a whole host of people in the world (and on Fark) who seem to think that their minds don't work like normal human minds and they never do silly, irrational, or annoying things.  I would bet a whole big sack of money that there are many people who say "I was never like that as a child" who totally were like that as a child.  And I'll bet you further that some of them are in this very thread.
 
2013-09-17 11:15:22 AM

Doc Daneeka: onzmadi: There are places you can go if you want food without the child experience, they are called bars and expensive restaurants.
If you are biatching about kids in a grocery store, a family restaurant, the bus or in a park
you really properly need to shut the hell up.

Pretty much.

I don't take my toddler to nice restaurants (anything nicer than a diner or a Friday's).  I don't take him to the movies (except a couple times to a G-rated animated film, matinee showing).


My rule of thumb for restaurants is that if they have high chairs, they expect to have kids.  I'm not taking the <1 year olds to Ruth Chris, don't get too upset with me if they are at Perkins and drop some cheerios.  :-)

My little ones are still way to young to take to the movies.  They can't even sit through a full episode of Caillou.
 
2013-09-17 11:15:50 AM
I have tons of empathy for parents of screaming children at the supermarket (and that's why I do my best not to stare or make parents feel bad), but I can still get annoyed after 20 minutes of screaming. What I have difficulty accepting is unattended children playing tag in stores or babies in fine dining restaurants after 9 oclock. My bf said a woman brought a five and ten year old to his showing of Evil Dead and I didnt even think I could handle that movie.

Everyone is entitled to their own feelings and opinions. In an ideal world we'd all just try to consider other people's perspectives before eagerly sharing our opinions. The bonus is (regardless of your expertise on the matter) that complaining about one's parenting skills is not going to make them better parents. You might momentarily shame them into a temporary behavior, but they will resent you and write angry blogs about you.
 
2013-09-17 11:16:30 AM
I was on a flight with a crying kid recently.  Probably wouldn't have noticed except the guy next to me kept sighing dramatically and alternating between turning to glare at the family and shooting me looks like, 'you believe this sh*t?'   Kid on a plane, I can understand there's going to be discomfort.  But there is nothing sadder in the world than watching a grown man have a temper tantrum.
 
2013-09-17 11:19:30 AM

supayoda: Mugato: I have a niece and nephew I take out sometimes and I've never had any problems with their throwing a tantrum or acting up. Take some parenting classes, get a nanny or go to the nearest PetSmart and buy a muzzle. Failing all of that, don't get all indignant when someone expresses annoyance at your shrieking spawn.No one should yell at you or anything but don't get all uppity if someone's natural reaction is to look annoyed in your direction.

Yeah, that's just like being a parent when you get to give them back once they get tired and cranky. If you really haven't had a problem, then chances are mom or dad was the one who had to handle the tantrums or acting up and used that to get them straightened out before you got them. That's kudos to them, not you.

EVERY parent has at least one or two meltdowns in a public place. EVERY parent. You might not have any beyond that, and the one you have may or may not be short (no guarantees on the first one) depending upon how you handled that teachable moment as a parent, but there's ALWAYS the first time. There is no exception to that rule because every child has to learn at some point that they can't have everything they want, and every child has to learn that Mommy and Daddy don't give in to their demands just because there are other people around. A fully functioning child does not exist that hasn't tried it. If you teach your child that he or she can have their way by acting like a tool, then you are a bad parent, and you're encouraging them to act like a tool every time you go out rather than a few times.

Anyone who has ever had a child and says that they've never had a problem is either oblivious (and a real bad parent/caretaker) or lying.


This is very true.  This is why I'm a fan of the drop everything and take my child outside theory though.  It allows me to deal with the tantrum outside of prying eyes and of course, it's considerate of others who may not be in the mood to hear ear-splitting screams on saturday morning.  The added benefit is that a trip outside is instantly recognized as "dad means business" and resulte in my daughter quieting down before we even hit the sidewalk.  haven't had to deal with an in-store tantrum in a long time.  There's the occasional in-store crying, but nothing remotely close to a melt-down.

Like you said, every kid tries a tantrum to see if it works.  Kid will have three outcomes, tantrum works, tantrum doesn't work, or tantrum leaves the in a worse situation than they were in before.  I try for the latter outcome (take away a toy or no longer buying something that i was originally going to get them) and it's always preceded by leaving the establishment and going outside.  Going outside means business.

Ignoring a tantrum is also acceptable, but much slower and honestly, unpleasant for everybody involved.  It's unpleasant for my child, it's unpleasant for me, and yes, it's unpleasant to other people in the store or restaurant.  The one time I was only able to ignore a tantrum instead of going outside was at an airport.  I let her tire herself out on a tantrum in the middle of the airport, but the bonus was that she was docile and sleepy by the time we boarded the flight, so she slept straight through the last leg of our trip.
 
2013-09-17 11:21:23 AM

spiderpaz: togaman2k: The public temper tantrums aren't a problem because they will happen to most kids at some point.  I just carry on with my business.

It really grinds my gears when it is the parents with <5 yr olds at the Dark Knight

This is where I think non-parents - along with everyone else - really do have a solid point.  Try taking that up a level of irritation when you're a parent with a child the same age - a parent that never takes their kids to the movies with them because they know how rude it is, so don't really get out except once in a long while ... and then you do get that night out with your spouse.  So, you've gotten the babysitter, made plans, and now you are about to watch a movie in peace and quiet without the kids ... and then some asshole comes in with a kid that talks a cries through the whole goddamn thing.


Movies aren't that bad in general.  The biggest issue is the appropriateness of time.  R-rated with violence/drug use/sex/adult-themes is never appropriate for elementary schoolers (granted, I watched Striptease and Get Shorty with my parents when I was that age, but that was at home in a controlled environment).  My wife is a teacher, so we love going to see all the new kids movies without kids ourselves but the expectation is kids doing kids things.  Even kids out shopping and things it is more or less expected on occasion but I shouldn't see kids at Wal-Mart after midnight or in an R-rated movie.

Parents need to put on their thinking caps and consider what situations are appropriate or not for their child's healthy development.  At the very least, they should be going to bed at a reasonable time at night, not grocery shopping.
 
2013-09-17 11:22:12 AM

supayoda: Mugato: I have a niece and nephew I take out sometimes and I've never had any problems with their throwing a tantrum or acting up. Take some parenting classes, get a nanny or go to the nearest PetSmart and buy a muzzle. Failing all of that, don't get all indignant when someone expresses annoyance at your shrieking spawn.No one should yell at you or anything but don't get all uppity if someone's natural reaction is to look annoyed in your direction.

Yeah, that's just like being a parent when you get to give them back once they get tired and cranky. If you really haven't had a problem, then chances are mom or dad was the one who had to handle the tantrums or acting up and used that to get them straightened out before you got them. That's kudos to them, not you.
...
Anyone who has ever had a child and says that they've never had a problem is either oblivious (and a real bad parent/caretaker) or lying.


Or forgetting.  Our minds have a wonderful capacity for forgetting - forgetting childbirth pain, forgetting horribly embarrassing public displays of toddler power struggles, forgetting our own bad behaviour and total loss of that last nerve.  It's easy to look back on these times and remember them fondly.  Otherwise we'd never have more kids.

/in the midst.  3-year-old hellion.  He's a good boy, but takes after his stubborn, bull-headed parents.  Discipline and structure are necessities in our life, and woe is me on the days I let it slip.  He's opportunistic, for sure!
//strangers compliment us on our wonderfully behaved child.  They don't see him at home. Ha!
 
2013-09-17 11:22:22 AM

Falstaff: Doc Daneeka: onzmadi: There are places you can go if you want food without the child experience, they are called bars and expensive restaurants.
If you are biatching about kids in a grocery store, a family restaurant, the bus or in a park
you really properly need to shut the hell up.

Pretty much.

I don't take my toddler to nice restaurants (anything nicer than a diner or a Friday's).  I don't take him to the movies (except a couple times to a G-rated animated film, matinee showing).

My rule of thumb for restaurants is that if they have high chairs, they expect to have kids.  I'm not taking the <1 year olds to Ruth Chris, don't get too upset with me if they are at Perkins and drop some cheerios.  :-)

My little ones are still way to young to take to the movies.  They can't even sit through a full episode of Caillou.


to be fair, sitting through an episode of Caillou is child abuse.  I would not expect anybody to do that.
 
2013-09-17 11:24:26 AM

UtopianDevil: I found it odd that the article (and those commenting) all seem to take it as given that children have 'meltdowns' and tantrums in public. This most certainly hasn't been my experience. I didn't see that behavior with my nieces and nephews, the children of my friends or even my own daughter.


No so CSB:

I do remember picking my daughter up from her mother when she was 3. Her mom told me that she had been having trouble all week with her throwing tantrums - throw herself on the floor, kick and scream until she gets her way. Having never seen any such behavior from my kid, I just nodded along and wondered when that started and why.

So my daughter and I stop at the grocery store on the way home and things are going well. She wants me to buy something (can't remember what) and the answer is no. And now I get to see the tantrum. Her face turns red, starts to cry/scream and goes to throw herself on the floor. I caught her by the arm, bent down nose to nose and growled "There will be none of that!". Tantrum over and it was the last time I ever saw that behavior from her.

/CSB

My two cents on parenting - be consistent. Never let them manipulate you, blackmail you, embarrass you or do anything else that makes you change the rules. I don't have a tenth of the problems with my daughter that her mother has and I honestly think it is because she knows the expectations are consistent and punishment will be swift and sure.


So basically... The tantrum you and the people around you had to deal with doesn't count as a tantrum? That's the point I try to make. EVERY child attempts it at least once. And for that moment, no matter how brief, you were the "bad parent" for the shoppers around you, who were all collectively saying, "Not MY child." The really fun part of that is that shoppers likely continued to hate you even after the tantrum was over.

Nine times out of ten, the parent you see with a kid throwing a tantrum in the grocery store is just dealing with the same thing you did, and it'll only happen once or twice. But even if they're dealing with it as they should and not giving in (which might make the tantrum worse for that one time but will ultimately result in no tantrums), they're going to be labeled as "bad parent" for the duration of said tantrum.
 
2013-09-17 11:27:27 AM
I have an autistic preschooler, so meltdowns are more common than I'd like. But that's why I almost always bring FARKING backup! If he can't get it together, we can remove him and still finish shopping, without asking others to listen. But you've got to give the kid a chance to pull themselves together. If a kid is never given the chance to get it right, they're not going to learn. When I set my son up to succeed, he gains self confidence and initiates the behavior.
 
2013-09-17 11:28:39 AM

UtopianDevil: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Yes, they are only in Illinois, Wisconsin, and Iowa.

We had Farm and Fleet in Ohio when I was a kid. All the ones I know of were eventually replaced by TSC stores. And TSC sucks.


Last time I was in our TSC, I was looking for a gate wheel.  The man working in that area looked at me like I asked for a three horned space alien in blue.  Yep, they suck.
 
2013-09-17 11:36:03 AM
OK I'm convinced. having kids looks like it could be fun
i26.photobucket.com

Ahh nah, not it doesn't
i26.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-17 11:36:16 AM

Cold_Sassy: My Mom had 4 children and, back in the day, you were still permitted to spank your child and that took care of most behavioral issues.  I honestly can't remember me or any of my 3 brothers ever throwing a fit.  I'm sure we must have, but you could count on old Mom lowering the boom and that stemmed most bad behavior.

Too bad some stupid jerkoffs had to make that a crime.


I've spanked. Spanking doesn't work with my daughter for whatever reason, but I guess part of discipline is trying a few things and seeing what does work. Turns out, what worked for her was taking her toys out of her room. If she had a good day, she got to play with them. If she had a bad day, she didn't. Isolating her was another one we used that worked really well. I'd send her to her room (which had no toys in it), and you would think I'd attempted to crucify her. She worked hard to have a good day so that she could play with her toys and not have to spend time in her boring room. Now that she's seven, I find that her video games are a pretty good incentive. She's a freaking angel in exchange for a bit of Mario Kart.
 
2013-09-17 11:36:55 AM

Civchic: supayoda: Mugato: I have a niece and nephew I take out sometimes and I've never had any problems with their throwing a tantrum or acting up. Take some parenting classes, get a nanny or go to the nearest PetSmart and buy a muzzle. Failing all of that, don't get all indignant when someone expresses annoyance at your shrieking spawn.No one should yell at you or anything but don't get all uppity if someone's natural reaction is to look annoyed in your direction.

Yeah, that's just like being a parent when you get to give them back once they get tired and cranky. If you really haven't had a problem, then chances are mom or dad was the one who had to handle the tantrums or acting up and used that to get them straightened out before you got them. That's kudos to them, not you.
...
Anyone who has ever had a child and says that they've never had a problem is either oblivious (and a real bad parent/caretaker) or lying.

Or forgetting.  Our minds have a wonderful capacity for forgetting - forgetting childbirth pain, forgetting horribly embarrassing public displays of toddler power struggles, forgetting our own bad behaviour and total loss of that last nerve.  It's easy to look back on these times and remember them fondly.  Otherwise we'd never have more kids.

/in the midst.  3-year-old hellion.  He's a good boy, but takes after his stubborn, bull-headed parents.  Discipline and structure are necessities in our life, and woe is me on the days I let it slip.  He's opportunistic, for sure!
//strangers compliment us on our wonderfully behaved child.  They don't see him at home. Ha!


LOL, my daughter is actually the same way.  She is just like my wife in that she hates being cooped up inside the house.  The result is that she's always happy and well behaved outside but a bit grumpier and volatile at home.
 
2013-09-17 11:37:10 AM
The non-parent is right. If your child is throwing a major tantrum in public, and you keep on like nothing is happening, you are a BAD PARENT. GOOD PARENTS remove the child from the situation. Yes, it's inconvenient for you, the parent, but that's what parenting is. It's inconvenient for you, but worth it.

So take care of your damn kids and you won't have to worry about what you assume to be non-parents talking shiat about you.
 
2013-09-17 11:37:18 AM

Englebert Slaptyback: JuniorII

I see you have your TotalFark membership all up to date....

Wait you don't? Maybe all that money you brag about is imaginary......


Yes, the only thing standing between me and TF is financial hardship.

It's not that I don't want to read hundreds of poorly constructed, redlit headlines and don't want to observe the relentless CJs in TFD. It's that I cannot spare $5 per month.

Truly you have a dizzying intellect.


Sorry, thought you were Mark Cuban.
 
2013-09-17 11:39:07 AM

Satan's Bunny Slippers: UtopianDevil: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Yes, they are only in Illinois, Wisconsin, and Iowa.

We had Farm and Fleet in Ohio when I was a kid. All the ones I know of were eventually replaced by TSC stores. And TSC sucks.

Last time I was in our TSC, I was looking for a gate wheel.  The man working in that area looked at me like I asked for a three horned space alien in blue.  Yep, they suck.


I worked at TSC in high school because I refused to work a fast food job. So I'm getting kicks. We were the best store in the state at the time, but that was over 20 years ago.
 
2013-09-17 11:39:34 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

You'd also better keep it to yourself if you know what's good for you.  Stepping on a parent's last nerve is never a good idea.


But the parent wearing down on the nerves of everybody else in public is still a-okay.

/no wait, it's not
//remove your child from the situation, jackhole
 
2013-09-17 11:43:36 AM

Mugato: Joe USer: vudukungfu:  Crib midgets. Crotch fruit. Sex trophies. Crotch droppings. Crumb snatchers. Womb rats. Ankle biters. Snowflakes. Spawn.
Miss any?

You forgot one. Future caregivers for us at 75.

You plan on being an invalid at 75?


Why the heck not?
 
2013-09-17 11:43:57 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: The non-parent is right. If your child is throwing a major tantrum in public, and you keep on like nothing is happening, you are a BAD PARENT. GOOD PARENTS remove the child from the situation. Yes, it's inconvenient for you, the parent, but that's what parenting is. It's inconvenient for you, but worth it.

So take care of your damn kids and you won't have to worry about what you assume to be non-parents talking shiat about you.


While I also think the ideal is removing the child from the store to deal with them, I don't think ignoring the tantrum is bad parenting either.  Ignoring it means they are not giving in.  Giving in IS bad parenting, and that bad parenting isn't visible to you because the kid who gets everything they want at the store isn't making noise anymore.

When you see a parent ignoring a tantrum they could easily stop by getting the kid what he or she wants, you're seeing a parent with at least some resolve.  No fault in that, though I agree the ideal is to go outside and deal with the situation much more directly.
 
2013-09-17 11:44:43 AM

rga184: to be fair, sitting through an episode of Caillou is child abuse.  I would not expect anybody to do that.


Agreed, but the theme song keeps getting stuck in my head.  No, I will not be that guy that types out the lyrics so that they get stuck in your head too.
 
2013-09-17 11:45:20 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: The non-parent is right. If your child is throwing a major tantrum in public, and you keep on like nothing is happening, you are a BAD PARENT. GOOD PARENTS remove the child from the situation. Yes, it's inconvenient for you, the parent, but that's what parenting is. It's inconvenient for you, but worth it.

So take care of your damn kids and you won't have to worry about what you assume to be non-parents talking shiat about you.


I'd rather be thought of as a bad parent than be a judgmental prick who automatically can determine what someone should do in 100% of situations just by looking at them.
 
2013-09-17 11:46:22 AM

cannibalparrot: TalenLee: cannibalparrot: I've run into this kind of attitude before...

"You can't have an opinion on abortion! You're a MAN!"

Wow, that sounds quite insane if meant wholeheartedly and not as a shortcut. I have heard "Your opinion about abortion is less valid because you've never experienced any of the related issues," which seems pretty reasonable to me.

Nope.  She meant exactly what she said.


I wouldn't tell a man that he didn't get to have an opinion on abortion.  I would tell a man that whether or not a woman has an abortion isn't (or shouldn't be) his decision to make.

I suppose that distinction is quite meaningful to some, and not-at-all meaningful to others.
 
2013-09-17 11:48:17 AM
The My Little Pony Killer:
//remove your child from the situation, jackhole

No.
 
2013-09-17 11:48:38 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: The non-parent is right. If your child is throwing a major tantrum in public, and you keep on like nothing is happening, you are a BAD PARENT. GOOD PARENTS remove the child from the situation. Yes, it's inconvenient for you, the parent, but that's what parenting is. It's inconvenient for you, but worth it.


Parenting is also about teaching. And if you remove the child from the situation immediately, you've taught the child to throw a tantrum if she doesn't like her immediate surroundings. Yes, sometimes you have to take the kid out. But it's not always necessary, or even a good idea. There is no BAD PARENT DO X, GOOD PARENTS DO Y paradigm here.
 
2013-09-17 11:51:38 AM

Falstaff: rga184: to be fair, sitting through an episode of Caillou is child abuse.  I would not expect anybody to do that.

Agreed, but the theme song keeps getting stuck in my head.  No, I will not be that guy that types out the lyrics so that they get stuck in your head too.


we speak spanish and english at home.  I know the lyrics to that farking opening song in two languages.  thankfully the caillou phase is finally over and she's now obsessed with ballet.  So now our house is filled with the sounds of the nutcracker and don quixote, her favorites.  they are very long productions, so even though she's listened to the former enough times to literally know every note (I kid you not, she can hum most of it from memory), it doesn't get repetitive because it's two hours long.

She also went through a phase where she asked to listen to the cure in the car.  That phase was awesome.
 
2013-09-17 11:53:32 AM

Infernalist: I love how parents have come to think that ignoring a temper tantrum is the proper course of action to take, ESPECIALLY in public.


I can tell you've had lots of experience in dealing with kids who throw a tantrum because they want to leave.
 
2013-09-17 11:53:57 AM
This thread certainly establishes one thing, which is that there's no easier way to troll a parent than by complaining about the way kids behave.

Personally, I'd prefer if the vociferous "child haters" would chill out and try to be less trolltastic, because I'd enjoy a reasonable discussion about ways parents and non-parents can coexist peacefully, but I know better than to try that on Fark. Nevertheless, I will offer the following notes to parents:

Children's cries and screams *are* in fact pretty much impossible to ignore for biological reasons. In fact, smoke alarms are set at the crying-baby frequency specifically because of that. Parents eventually learn to tune out that kind of noise somehow, but those of us who have little or no exposure to kids don't have that ability.

So the tantrum you're tuning out because you know you can't stop it really *is* a very big deal to the non-parents around you. It's causing an instinctive stress response that we have no way to address. It's inevitable that we'll get frustrated, and often angry. Even if we know logically that sometimes kids are just like that, even if we sympathize, even if you're obviously doing your best to deal with a difficult situation, we can't help being upset by the noise because we're genetically hardwired to react. We *can*, and should, do our best to behave like reasonable adults, but it's just as understandable that some people find that difficult as that sometimes kids scream.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for most parents. While popping out a baby is nothing of particular note, I find it inexplicable and astonishing that most people manage to rise to the occasion and make even the most basic of sacrifices necessary to care for a child. I've always had cats, and it's a good thing they're so self-sufficient, because I'm barely competent to take care of them. Or myself, for that matter. Seriously, most of y'all are farking heroes as far as I'm concerned.

Funny story: The other day my fiancé and I were in a grocery store when a little girl (maybe 2-3 years old) yelled "HI," ran up behind me, and grabbed my ass with both hands. The mother's immediate response was to apologize profusely (followed by a stern "Get back here! You do NOT do that!" to the child).

I thought it was hilarious anyway -- given the choice between a screaming child and an ass-grabbing one, I'll take the ass-grabbing every time -- but I appreciated the mother's apology because it was an acknowledgement that it was not OK for her kid to grab my ass, and that her child's actions were her responsibility. She told her older son to take the little girl's hand and led them away, with the girl still waving gaily back at me.

Honestly, parents, an apology is the least you can do. If you don't think you should have to adhere to the most basic rules of etiquette because you think everyone should "just deal with it" when your kids act up, you are EXACTLY the parents people in this thread are complaining about it, and down the road your kids will also be those parents, because chances are pretty good you won't bother to teach them any manners either.

Also, the vociferous child-haters need to chill the fark out. I don't have/want kids and I strongly dislike being around them myself, but if you're looking for excuses to be annoyed by pretty much anything, children included, you will certainly find plenty of them. If you save your butthurt for times when children are genuinely causing a problem for you instead of just pissing and moaning every time you're forced to notice a child's existence, your blood pressure is going to go way down and everyone will be much happier.
 
2013-09-17 11:54:14 AM

Tat'dGreaser: I don't understand people who hate children so much. You do know you were that screaming a-hole at one point in your life right?


Yes, and when I screamed like an asshole, my parents removed me from the situation so that strangers wouldn't have to deal with my screaming assholeness.

Now you can have the same consideration my parents did and remove your hollering offspring from the vicinity for the duration of time they feel the need to stretch their lungs.
 
2013-09-17 11:55:49 AM

MycroftHolmes: Screaming kids are obnoxious and annoying.  Sanctimonious, self centered douchbags so offended that anything might inconvenience them slightly are obnoxious and annoying.

One of those two groups is young and doesn't know better.

Get over yourself.  There are a lot of people on this planet, live and let live.  It will be ok.


The group that is young and doesn't know any better is often accompanied by older people who DO know better and should remove them from the situation.
 
2013-09-17 11:56:47 AM

rga184: Falstaff: Doc Daneeka: onzmadi: There are places you can go if you want food without the child experience, they are called bars and expensive restaurants.
If you are biatching about kids in a grocery store, a family restaurant, the bus or in a park
you really properly need to shut the hell up.

Pretty much.

I don't take my toddler to nice restaurants (anything nicer than a diner or a Friday's).  I don't take him to the movies (except a couple times to a G-rated animated film, matinee showing).

My rule of thumb for restaurants is that if they have high chairs, they expect to have kids.  I'm not taking the <1 year olds to Ruth Chris, don't get too upset with me if they are at Perkins and drop some cheerios.  :-)

My little ones are still way to young to take to the movies.  They can't even sit through a full episode of Caillou.

to be fair, sitting through an episode of Caillou is child abuse.  I would not expect anybody to do that.


Out of curiosity, what's your problem with Caillou? I've seen a few people complain about Caillou's behavior as a bad model for kids, but I think they miss the point. Caillou acts out in expression of how something makes him feel (which every kid does sometimes, or if they don't act out, they still have the same feelings). This is how the situation relates to kids in a way they understand. Then a parent or other authority figure steps in and guides Caillou into understanding his problem so he can correct himself and feel better. He doesn't whine or have fits as an example of desirable behavior, that's just the set up for the show to basically say "hey, when you act this way or feel this way in this type of situation, you don't need to because [insert explanation here]."

My kids both watched Caillou without any trouble getting it.
 
2013-09-17 11:57:15 AM

Luthien's Tempest: it's way more fun to go talk to the kid


Not when I have more important shiat I'm trying to concentrate on, not when they have a PARENT with them who could very easily be doing those parenty-sounding things.

You expect the village to step in and raise the child, but they'd better keep their mouths shut about it? Oh hell no.
 
2013-09-17 11:58:22 AM
I actually saw a woman meltdown over kids acting up a few months ago. We were at a family restaurant eating lunch, and about 4 couples were eating at one table, while all their children were seated at another table. The kids were probably age 3 to 8, and they were acting like kids that age do; being noisy, getting up and talking to each other, and generally creating a lot of racket. The parents were engrossed in their own conversations, and only rarely did any of them say anything to the kids to calm down. A middle aged woman, sitting alone at a table near the kids, finally couldn't stand it any more, stood up and yelled "will all you kids sit down and behave!".

The restaurant fell dead silent for a moment, including the kids. The parents began actually trying to keep the kids quieter, and the restaurant staff offered to move the woman further away from the kid table. Our server just said "thank god I'm not taking care of those tables myself" the next time she came by.
 
2013-09-17 12:00:16 PM

gglibertine: Also, the vociferous child-haters need to chill the fark out.


And you should chill out with the "child hater" shiat. The problem people have is with parents who either ignore their shrieking kid or think it's somehow cute, not with the kid itself.
 
2013-09-17 12:01:43 PM

pseudoscience: TalenLee: Maybe they'll make nice rooms for people with no kids to go and sit in places they can be (relatively) sure they won't have to hear children crying? I dunno. The blog post seems to be responding to a petty asshole by being a sanctimonious asshole.

This.

Non-parents need to understand that kids throw temper tantrums sometimes, regardless of the quality of the parenting, so learn to deal with it. Alternatively, the author says, "the peanut gallery probably expects you to drop all of your groceries and immediately run into the parking lot, so as to save them from having to deal with the spectacle. But it's not always that simple; maybe you don't have time to shut down the whole operation just because Billy's gone nuclear." Sometimes that is true, but you don't get a free pass every time simply because it is an inconvenience to you to be respectful of everyone else in public.


Forgive me for excessive thising, but yes, both sides look bad when they can't cut the other side some slack.
 
2013-09-17 12:01:56 PM

Marcintosh: You know, act like a christian or something


Why is it always on everybody BUT the christians to act christian?
 
2013-09-17 12:03:58 PM

Freudian_slipknot: Yes, parents are always smart and do the best for their kids.  Those who only have a basic grasp of reality can't hope to compete with that

http://www.healio.com/pediatrics/journals/pedann/%7Bb09dbfc1-b28f-47 01 -b42c-527bb369f62b%7D/a-3-year-old-girl-with-eye-pain   (Warning: graphic example of the kind of expert having a child makes you)


*violent shudders*


This previously healthy, unimmunized child has severe vitamin-A deficiency with xerophthalmia, corneal ulcerations, follicular hyperkeratosis, scurvy, anemia, and malnutrition. During the hospitalization, the parents requested strict adherence to a "chemical-free" environment and avoidance of medications with preservatives and artificial coloring. However, upon further investigation, the mother, a health care provider, was unable to provide any supporting evidence for the chemical sensitivities; in fact, the patient was previously seen by more than a dozen providers without substantiation of these diagnoses.

I...OK, that got me kinda homicidal. I think I better just creep on outta this thread.
 
2013-09-17 12:04:37 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Marcus Aurelius: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

You'd also better keep it to yourself if you know what's good for you.  Stepping on a parent's last nerve is never a good idea.

But the parent wearing down on the nerves of everybody else in public is still a-okay.

/no wait, it's not
//remove your child from the situation, jackhole


So in your world the parent with the child (that is already in full on cry mode) should get off the bus and walk?

blurbrain.com

That's some fine humanity Lou.
 
2013-09-17 12:05:02 PM

Mugato: The problem people have is with parents who either ignore their shrieking kid or think it's somehow cute, not with the kid itself.


How cute, you think the parents care what your opinion is.
 
2013-09-17 12:05:17 PM

rga184: supayoda: Mugato: I have a niece and nephew I take out sometimes and I've never had any problems with their throwing a tantrum or acting up. Take some parenting classes, get a nanny or go to the nearest PetSmart and buy a muzzle. Failing all of that, don't get all indignant when someone expresses annoyance at your shrieking spawn.No one should yell at you or anything but don't get all uppity if someone's natural reaction is to look annoyed in your direction.

Yeah, that's just like being a parent when you get to give them back once they get tired and cranky. If you really haven't had a problem, then chances are mom or dad was the one who had to handle the tantrums or acting up and used that to get them straightened out before you got them. That's kudos to them, not you.

EVERY parent has at least one or two meltdowns in a public place. EVERY parent. You might not have any beyond that, and the one you have may or may not be short (no guarantees on the first one) depending upon how you handled that teachable moment as a parent, but there's ALWAYS the first time. There is no exception to that rule because every child has to learn at some point that they can't have everything they want, and every child has to learn that Mommy and Daddy don't give in to their demands just because there are other people around. A fully functioning child does not exist that hasn't tried it. If you teach your child that he or she can have their way by acting like a tool, then you are a bad parent, and you're encouraging them to act like a tool every time you go out rather than a few times.

Anyone who has ever had a child and says that they've never had a problem is either oblivious (and a real bad parent/caretaker) or lying.

This is very true.  This is why I'm a fan of the drop everything and take my child outside theory though.  It allows me to deal with the tantrum outside of prying eyes and of course, it's considerate of others who may not be in the mood to hear ear-splitting screams o ...


I'd definitely agree that it's situational as to what you do regarding discipline so long as you're doing it and you're being consistent. The grocery store tantrums I had to put up with (a total of three) were due to her wanting to leave the store, so it seemed like I'd be giving in to the tantrum to step outside. Spanking never worked with her, but she was always into walking beside Mommy "like a big girl," so I put her in the cart seat during the tantrum. I think they all lasted maybe a minute or two before she stopped and realized she was getting nothing. I would also typically reward her with a quarter for the little toy/sticker vending machines if she'd behaved.

Biggest problem I have with her now is her trying to reason with me about X cereal she's seen advertised. She's setting herself up to either be a politician or a lawyer, and I feel a need to apologize to the rest of the world.
 
2013-09-17 12:05:51 PM

bborchar: Where are they supposed to find a babysitter at 10:30 am on a Thursday morning?


Not the bosses' problem. You made the kid, you take responsibility for it or for finding a job that suits your hours.
 
2013-09-17 12:06:57 PM

GORDON: Children are a basic, fundamental, and generally harmless fact of life.  They always will be.  The only attitudes you change by sharing your anti-child views are in how the rest of the world perceives you, not children.

 
2013-09-17 12:09:18 PM

bborchar: The My Little Pony Killer: The non-parent is right. If your child is throwing a major tantrum in public, and you keep on like nothing is happening, you are a BAD PARENT. GOOD PARENTS remove the child from the situation. Yes, it's inconvenient for you, the parent, but that's what parenting is. It's inconvenient for you, but worth it.

So take care of your damn kids and you won't have to worry about what you assume to be non-parents talking shiat about you.

I'd rather be thought of as a bad parent than be a judgmental prick who automatically can determine what someone should do in 100% of situations just by looking at them.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
SO MUCH farkING THIS!!!
 
2013-09-17 12:09:42 PM

wickedragon: Of course non-parents are allowed to have opinions on how to rear human mini-beasts.
It's just that hvaing an opinoin and having a valid opinion is two different things.
And having an opinion and loudly voicing that opinion is two different things.

See, if you think blue is a better color for a car than yellow, that's perfectly okay. Going up to every yellow-colored car you see and loudly proclaiming that they suck at owning cars is still stupid.

And, if you think that it sucks that your your car has four wheels and that it would be better if it had three that is perfectly within your right. You're wrong, but so are we all at some point or another. Not voicing your very very stupid opinion will help you convince others that you are not very very stupid. So please keep your mouth shut.

To paraphrase (and translate) Håvamål:

It's better to keep your mouth shut
And let people belive you a fool
than to open your mouth
and remove all doubt.

PS! in old norse it rhymes and is thus more awsome


We'll keep our mouths shut when you show us that you're trying to take care of your hollering offspring. Until then, guess you'll have to deal with the glares and murmurings.
 
2013-09-17 12:10:14 PM

lack of warmth: The worst one I witnessed was a dad who squeezed his daughters arm for singing a made up song about how much he meant to her ON FATHERS' DAY.


What. The. Hell.
 
2013-09-17 12:11:20 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Tat'dGreaser: I don't understand people who hate children so much. You do know you were that screaming a-hole at one point in your life right?

Yes, and when I screamed like an asshole, my parents removed me from the situation so that strangers wouldn't have to deal with my screaming assholeness.


Sometimes they can't, get over it.
 
2013-09-17 12:14:15 PM

Joe USer: The My Little Pony Killer: Tat'dGreaser: I don't understand people who hate children so much. You do know you were that screaming a-hole at one point in your life right?

Yes, and when I screamed like an asshole, my parents removed me from the situation so that strangers wouldn't have to deal with my screaming assholeness.

Sometimes they can't, get over it.


My guess, it happened to him just last week because the hissy fits he has about kids are no doubt the result of his parents constantly giving into his tantrums.
 
2013-09-17 12:14:56 PM

Freudian_slipknot: Yes, parents are always smart and do the best for their kids.  Those who only have a basic grasp of reality can't hope to compete with that

http://www.healio.com/pediatrics/journals/pedann/%7Bb09dbfc1-b28f-47 01 -b42c-527bb369f62b%7D/a-3-year-old-girl-with-eye-pain   (Warning: graphic example of the kind of expert having a child makes you)


They're an expert at malnourishing their child? Good for them, I guess, as long as they didn't take her out in public to suffer and make the rest of society suffer with her.
 
2013-09-17 12:17:00 PM
Why punish the parent?  Just slap the kid up the back of the head or trip them when the parent is not looking
 
2013-09-17 12:17:01 PM

Freudian_slipknot: lostcat: Standing, her head came up to about the same height as my head. But behind us was an older couple. The woman kept sucking her teeth in annoyance and muttering, 'sit down,' in that cowardly level of voice between actually saying it and keeping it to yourself.

All I can say about that woman is, 'what an asshole.'

Perhaps she was an asshole, and perhaps she was concerned for the safety of your unrestrained child in the case of turbulence.

I do find it amusing that you call her using her voice cowardly, but you didn't turn around to say anything yourself.

You feel justified because, well, it's your story.  That's how it happens.  That doesn't necessarily mean that there's not another side and that it's not just as justified.


Oh noes! I'm a horrible father because I didn't have my child strapped in the entire 5-hour flight! Something could HAPPEN! I'm a terrible parent because I don't let her wear a helmet and full-body padding at all times too.

What was I supposed to say in response to her barely audible comment? "Hey lady, why don't you shut up?"

What, in your mind, is the appropriate response to someone who is being passive agressive about the behavior of your child? I think ignoring it is the most appropriate action. If she REALLY wanted me to make my daughter sit down, she should have gotten my attention and said something directly to me, intead of sucking her teeth and muttering, "sit down" barely under her breath. I guarantee you my daughter didn't hear it, so why not say, "tell your kid to sit down"?

Let's think about her side.

"I'm trying to watch an in-flight movie, and the kid in front of me is standing next to her parent, hugging him. I don't care that he's been overseas for the past three months and she's only seen him on Skype, and having him there, next to her, makes her want to hug him, I just want to recline back in my seat and watch this Clint Eastwood baseball drama without having the bottom half-inch of the screen blocked by the top of her head. And I certainly don't want to bring my own seat up so I can have a clear, unobstructed view of the screen. The fact that this kid's head is lower in the seat than that of an average adult is immaterial to me."
 
2013-09-17 12:18:40 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: We'll keep our mouths shut when you show us that you're trying to take care of your hollering offspring. Until then, guess you'll have to deal with the glares and murmurings.


Why? Is that considered an excuse for acting like an epic douchebag? Do you think, 'Oh, you're trying to my level of satisfaction, so I won't get all passive-aggressive on you.' The kid is acting like a kid, what's your excuse?
 
2013-09-17 12:20:20 PM

Onkel Buck: Satan's Bunny Slippers: UtopianDevil: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Yes, they are only in Illinois, Wisconsin, and Iowa.

We had Farm and Fleet in Ohio when I was a kid. All the ones I know of were eventually replaced by TSC stores. And TSC sucks.

Last time I was in our TSC, I was looking for a gate wheel.  The man working in that area looked at me like I asked for a three horned space alien in blue.  Yep, they suck.

I worked at TSC in high school because I refused to work a fast food job. So I'm getting kicks. We were the best store in the state at the time, but that was over 20 years ago.


I actually deleted part of my response that said just that.  TSC used to be a great store, but not in the last 15 or so years.  Farm & Fleet, hell even Big Rs are better than TSC now.
 
2013-09-17 12:20:59 PM

New Slang: Why punish the parent?  Just slap the kid up the back of the head or trip them when the parent is not looking


1/10, your trolling needs work.
 
2013-09-17 12:21:21 PM

Mugato: gglibertine: Also, the vociferous child-haters need to chill the fark out.

And you should chill out with the "child hater" shiat. The problem people have is with parents who either ignore their shrieking kid or think it's somehow cute, not with the kid itself.


Tell that to the child haters in this thread that have called children.  Parasites, Crotch Fruit, and other such terms.
 
2013-09-17 12:24:18 PM

supayoda: So basically... The tantrum you and the people around you had to deal with doesn't count as a tantrum?


Yes, I suppose the three seconds that it lasted was really horrible for everyone. Considering it was over nearly instantly and it was never repeated, I always looked at it as an anomaly.

supayoda: That's the point I try to make. EVERY child attempts it at least once.


This is likely accurate, but there is a large difference between the tantrum being stopped cold and what the article was talking about which is parents just letting the kid scream without doing anything about it. As you may notice in my comment that you quoted, I was referring to the attitude that tantrums and meltdowns are just normal and to be expected from children. That is the attitude that allows the kid to keep screaming without consequences. Tantrums are not 'normal'.  They are bad behavior that must be stopped. It may be typical that kids try the tantrum route once, but I don't label it as 'normal' for it to be ignored by the parent. Ignoring the problem is letting the kid inflict their bad behavior on everyone else. As one other person said in this thread, a tantrum has three outcomes -  tantrum works, tantrum doesn't work, or tantrum leaves them in a worse situation than they were in before. I make absolutely certain the third one is what happens.
 
2013-09-17 12:26:44 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Luthien's Tempest: it's way more fun to go talk to the kid

Not when I have more important shiat I'm trying to concentrate on, not when they have a PARENT with them who could very easily be doing those parenty-sounding things.

You expect the village to step in and raise the child, but they'd better keep their mouths shut about it? Oh hell no.


And you do realize that when that 'village' is mentioned in regard to raising that child the said raising involves more than removing your ear buds to glare at the parents who dared to bring their children to Starbucks?

But please, do go on about the 'important shiat' that you are trying to concentrate on in a public place.

www.mbird.com

26 minutes?
 
2013-09-17 12:27:14 PM

Joe USer: New Slang: Why punish the parent?  Just slap the kid up the back of the head or trip them when the parent is not looking

1/10, your trolling needs work.


No.  Your opinion doesn't matter.  Get over it.
 
2013-09-17 12:27:15 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: The non-parent is right. If your child is throwing a major tantrum in public, and you keep on like nothing is happening, you are a BAD PARENT. GOOD PARENTS remove the child from the situation. Yes, it's inconvenient for you, the parent, but that's what parenting is. It's inconvenient for you, but worth it.

So take care of your damn kids and you won't have to worry about what you assume to be non-parents talking shiat about you.


If the child is throwing a tantrum in a public place because they don't want to be there, then dropping everything and leaving accomplishes the following:

1) First, and foremost, it teaches the child that throwing a tantrum WORKED, that throwing a tantrum is an effective way to get what they want,
2) It shows the child that they can control their parents behavior simply by threatening to embarrass them in front of strangers,
3) In light of that, it rewards the tantrum and makes them more likely to occur in the future.

This is bad parenting.  It may be more comforting to random passersby, but it teaches the wrong lesson to the kid.  The lesson they need to learn is that the parents control the agenda, and can't be compelled to stop everything and leave simply because the child doesn't want to be there.  They need to learn that the tantrum is ineffective.
 
2013-09-17 12:31:28 PM
The non-parent is right. If your child is throwing a major tantrum in public, and you keep on like nothing is happening, you are a BAD PARENT. GOOD PARENTS remove the child from the situation. Yes, it's inconvenient for you, the parent, but that's what parenting is. It's inconvenient for you, but worth it.

So take care of your damn kids and you won't have to worry about what you assume to be non-parents talking shiat about you.

If the child is throwing a tantrum in a public place because they don't want to be there, then dropping everything and leaving accomplishes the following:

1) First, and foremost, it teaches the child that throwing a tantrum WORKED, that throwing a tantrum is an effective way to get what they want,
2) It shows the child that they can control their parents behavior simply by threatening to embarrass them in front of strangers,
3) In light of that, it rewards the tantrum and makes them more likely to occur in the future.


Are you really this stupid?

This is bad parenting.  It may be more comforting to random passersby, but it teaches the wrong lesson to the kid.  The lesson they need to learn is that the parents control the agenda, and can't be compelled to stop everything and leave simply because the child doesn't want to be there.  They need to learn that the tantrum is ineffective.
 
2013-09-17 12:32:04 PM
I don't have play football to know a good football player from a bad football player.

I don't have to play an instrument to know a good musician from a bad musician.

I don't have to be a parent to know a good parent from a bad parent, or good parenting from bad parenting.
 
2013-09-17 12:32:35 PM
This was already mentioned upthread, but it bears repeating - several times. The guy is an antivaxxer psycho who actually wrote a blog titled "Men and women are not equal," so his arguments are invalid. In short, his blog sucks.
 
2013-09-17 12:32:50 PM

vudukungfu: Crib midgets. Crotch fruit. Sex trophies. Crotch droppings. Crumb snatchers. Womb rats. Ankle biters. Snowflakes. Spawn.
Miss any?


I thought ankle biters were little dogs?
 
2013-09-17 12:34:55 PM

ArcadianRefugee: I don't have play football to know a good football player from a bad football player.

I don't have to play an instrument to know a good musician from a bad musician.

I don't have to be a parent to know a good parent from a bad parent, or good parenting from bad parenting.


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-09-17 12:35:16 PM
The guy is an antivaxxer psycho who actually wrote a blog titled "Men and women are not equal,"


Outrageous! Where could someone even get an idea like that?
 
2013-09-17 12:38:38 PM

New Slang: Joe USer: New Slang: Why punish the parent?  Just slap the kid up the back of the head or trip them when the parent is not looking

1/10, your trolling needs work.

No.  Your opinion doesn't matter.  Get over it.


So you were actually advocating assaulting a child?

In that case 2/10. Keep trying.
 
2013-09-17 12:42:08 PM

smoky2010: If I have to tolerate your moronic offspring, then you have to tolerate my opinion

/if you don't like it, too bad


So naturally your opinion takes into account the fact that it's a small child who is not entirely verbal yet, highly confused by the world around them, and is designed to cry to release stress? I mean, if you're going to spew  ignorant opinions, that's really only embarrassing yourself.

/Yes, they're noisy. So are jackhammers. They're part of life. Put on your big kid pants and deal with it, the kid's having a harder time than you are anyway.
 
2013-09-17 12:46:21 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Tat'dGreaser: I don't understand people who hate children so much. You do know you were that screaming a-hole at one point in your life right?

Yes, and when I screamed like an asshole, my parents removed me from the situation so that strangers wouldn't have to deal with my screaming assholeness.

Now you can have the same consideration my parents did and remove your hollering offspring from the vicinity for the duration of time they feel the need to stretch their lungs.


Because look how well you turned out.  So tolerant and non-judgmental.
 
2013-09-17 12:46:30 PM

smoky2010: If I have to tolerate your moronic offspring, then you have to tolerate my opinion

/if you don't like it, too bad



Did you ever misbehave when you were a child?  (Quick hint:  Yes)  We tolerated you when you acted like a moron, now you can do the same.

let him who is without sin, cast the first stone
 
2013-09-17 12:48:51 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: bborchar: Where are they supposed to find a babysitter at 10:30 am on a Thursday morning?

Not the bosses' problem. You made the kid, you take responsibility for it or for finding a job that suits your hours.


He's a lawyer and makes his own hours.  If he doesn't want people to bring their kids into his office, he should change his hours to where parents wouldn't have to.  Otherwise, he should shut up because those are the people paying his salary.
 
2013-09-17 12:49:15 PM

doubled99: The non-parent is right. If your child is throwing a major tantrum in public, and you keep on like nothing is happening, you are a BAD PARENT. GOOD PARENTS remove the child from the situation. Yes, it's inconvenient for you, the parent, but that's what parenting is. It's inconvenient for you, but worth it.

So take care of your damn kids and you won't have to worry about what you assume to be non-parents talking shiat about you.

If the child is throwing a tantrum in a public place because they don't want to be there, then dropping everything and leaving accomplishes the following:

1) First, and foremost, it teaches the child that throwing a tantrum WORKED, that throwing a tantrum is an effective way to get what they want,
2) It shows the child that they can control their parents behavior simply by threatening to embarrass them in front of strangers,
3) In light of that, it rewards the tantrum and makes them more likely to occur in the future.

Are you really this stupid?

This is bad parenting.  It may be more comforting to random passersby, but it teaches the wrong lesson to the kid.  The lesson they need to learn is that the parents control the agenda, and can't be compelled to stop everything and leave simply because the child doesn't want to be there.  They need to learn that the tantrum is ineffective.


From my experience, you are very wrong. And ignorant.

Obvious troll is obvious, though.
 
2013-09-17 12:50:25 PM

dabbletech: smoky2010: If I have to tolerate your moronic offspring, then you have to tolerate my opinion

/if you don't like it, too bad


Did you ever misbehave when you were a child?(Quick hint:  Yes)  We tolerated you when you acted like a moron, now you can do the same.

let him who is without sin, cast the first stone


not in public, not once.  neither did any of my 5 brothers and sisters.

you want me to keep my secondhand smoke to myself?  you keep your secondhand sperm to yourself.
 
2013-09-17 12:51:14 PM

New Slang: Why punish the parent?  Just slap the kid up the back of the head or trip them when the parent is not looking


FINALLY, some rational thinking in this thread.

CSB: Ye Olde Airplane situation
So I'm on a flight (fairly short connecting one) and I have the 7 year old behind me.  Not A 7-year-old, THE 7-year-old.  The one that had his DVD player run out of batteries before we left the tarmac and started kicking the back of my seat nonstop.  Non. Stop.

So I ask the kid to stop (mostly out of politeness), then ask mom to have him stop.  "Oh, if his DVD is out of batteries there's no controlling him.  Be glad it's the only thing he's doing".  So, I ignore it for the first 30 minutes or so.  Mom has started reading and stopped talking at all.

     kid: Mom, this is BORING.  I don't have anything to do.  Mom.  MOM!
     me: hey kid, you wanna see if your double jointed?
     kid: SURE!
[snip - I had him check for hitch hikers thumb and bend his arm in impossible ways]
     me: Your'e not that flexible, I bet you cant even touch your knees to your chin.
     kid: I can so! [curls into fetal position]

I then reclined the seat and trapped him in that position.  I then put my ipod on with the volume up.  Mom tried to get the flight attendant to let me go, but she insisted that I was free to recline if I wanted to.  I only got to screw that kid over for about 15 minutes, but MAN it was worth all the biatching and moaning till the end of the flight just to punish him.
 
2013-09-17 12:53:37 PM

nipner: max_pooper: Hey oblivious parents, if you don't want people telling you to shut your bratty kids up don't be shiatty parents. Or don't take your bratty kids out to restaurants but that also falls under the category of not being shiatty parents.

I guess don't be shiatty parents is the central theme to my rant.

Yes, this too!   It really cracks me up when I'm out drinking,  partying, and being raunchy in Vegas at 2am... but I get dirty looks from the parents rolling their tired/hungry/cranky children around in the middle of the night.   I chose not to have kids, so I can choose when/where/what I want to do in the middle of the night.
You chose to create a f*ck trophy; so take care of it!  That means reasonable bed times, more sober living; and going to Disney instead of Vegas.

//Seriously?  How bad of a parent are you to choose Vegas over Disney?


You just gave me a THIS boner!  I was in Vegas for work last year.  On one of my evening drunken strolls down the strip (around 11pm-ish) I passed a family.  The mom was pushing a stroller (a 1 child stroller) that had a sleeping one year old in it AND a screaming two year old flopping around on top of the one year old.  The mom of course looked miserable, but I thought to myself "who the fark has toddlers out at 11pm...in Vegas...ON THE STRIP!".  Just as I was making a mental note to call my wife the next morning(who was home with our twin girls) I saw another couple with their (probably 10-12 year old son) and the kid was complaining about not feeling well.  Then right in front of me the kid pukes all over the sidewalk (had I been a little more sober, I would've puked on him as I am a sympathetic vomiter...in fact, I just heaved a little just thinking about it).  I walked down the street to my favorite hole in the wall bar, and got heatered thinking "I can't believe parents like this exist".
 
2013-09-17 12:56:03 PM

doubled99: The non-parent is right. If your child is throwing a major tantrum in public, and you keep on like nothing is happening, you are a BAD PARENT. GOOD PARENTS remove the child from the situation. Yes, it's inconvenient for you, the parent, but that's what parenting is. It's inconvenient for you, but worth it.

So take care of your damn kids and you won't have to worry about what you assume to be non-parents talking shiat about you.

If the child is throwing a tantrum in a public place because they don't want to be there, then dropping everything and leaving accomplishes the following:

1) First, and foremost, it teaches the child that throwing a tantrum WORKED, that throwing a tantrum is an effective way to get what they want,
2) It shows the child that they can control their parents behavior simply by threatening to embarrass them in front of strangers,
3) In light of that, it rewards the tantrum and makes them more likely to occur in the future.

Are you really this stupid?

This is bad parenting.  It may be more comforting to random passersby, but it teaches the wrong lesson to the kid.  The lesson they need to learn is that the parents control the agenda, and can't be compelled to stop everything and leave simply because the child doesn't want to be there.  They need to learn that the tantrum is ineffective.


If a child is throwing a tantrum because they don't want to be at the store, and the parent responds by immediately removing the child from the store to protect the delicate eardrums and sensibilities of passing shoppers, what lesson do you think the child is going to take away from that? What message do they receive?

A.) The tantrum worked, and they've discovered an easy and effective way of controlling their parent's behavior when out in public.

The reason the parent doesn't react the way you would like them to is that they are capable of considering the child's perspective. While the non-parent critic is generally incapable of considering the child's perspective (or the parent's, or for that matter, anyone's except their own).
 
2013-09-17 12:56:20 PM

mike_d85: New Slang: Why punish the parent?  Just slap the kid up the back of the head or trip them when the parent is not looking

FINALLY, some rational thinking in this thread.

CSB: Ye Olde Airplane situation
So I'm on a flight (fairly short connecting one) and I have the 7 year old behind me.  Not A 7-year-old, THE 7-year-old.  The one that had his DVD player run out of batteries before we left the tarmac and started kicking the back of my seat nonstop.  Non. Stop.

So I ask the kid to stop (mostly out of politeness), then ask mom to have him stop.  "Oh, if his DVD is out of batteries there's no controlling him.  Be glad it's the only thing he's doing".  So, I ignore it for the first 30 minutes or so.  Mom has started reading and stopped talking at all.

     kid: Mom, this is BORING.  I don't have anything to do.  Mom.  MOM!
     me: hey kid, you wanna see if your double jointed?
     kid: SURE!
[snip - I had him check for hitch hikers thumb and bend his arm in impossible ways]
     me: Your'e not that flexible, I bet you cant even touch your knees to your chin.
     kid: I can so! [curls into fetal position]

I then reclined the seat and trapped him in that position.  I then put my ipod on with the volume up.  Mom tried to get the flight attendant to let me go, but she insisted that I was free to recline if I wanted to.  I only got to screw that kid over for about 15 minutes, but MAN it was worth all the biatching and moaning till the end of the flight just to punish him.


You sound like a blast at parties
 
2013-09-17 12:58:06 PM
MycroftHolmes:And I made no statement about you.  Just made a declarative statement that I will stand by.  Sensitive much?

Albinoman: No, not at all. You made that statement after copying my post, who else would it be to? Your statement was to imply my lack of understanding of what it's like to be a parent. I've been there, she's now long gone and I'm still childless. I countered by basically saying you know nothing about me (like you thought I did about parenting), yet felt "confident" in saying I'm an idiot. I was just pointing out your hypocrisy.


I can't speak for  MycroftHolmes but I frequently quote other people when I post without what I say after I quote them being directed at them specifically.  In other words, often when I quote someone else it is not to REPLY to them but merely to indicate where in the thread I was when I decided to post and what prompted me to say what I'm saying.

The problem is compounded by the unfortunate fact that the word "you" is used in English for three completely different pronouns: the 2nd-person singular, the 2nd-person plural, and the impersonal.  So many times where a person says "you" they mean "someone" rather than "you" specifically.
 
2013-09-17 12:59:29 PM
What Bullshiat.

The kid would not be having a tantrum if she raised her kids right knowing that only "the look" should shut them up.
Instead this kids carries one because he knows he is going to get away with it.

Damn pure and simple.

I was a kid once. You were too, remember? You always push the line to see how far you can go.
Mine was a short line compared to the pansy society of today.
 
2013-09-17 01:00:40 PM
tl;dr

Your blog sucks.
 
2013-09-17 01:03:29 PM

Doc Daneeka: 2) It shows the child that they can control their parents behavior simply by threatening to embarrass them in front of strangers,


Are you implying that the kid is deliberately throwing a premeditated tantrum in order to consciously manipulate the parents?

I hope you're not one of those "break the child's will" types. :/
 
2013-09-17 01:03:37 PM

Doc Daneeka: The My Little Pony Killer: The non-parent is right. If your child is throwing a major tantrum in public, and you keep on like nothing is happening, you are a BAD PARENT. GOOD PARENTS remove the child from the situation. Yes, it's inconvenient for you, the parent, but that's what parenting is. It's inconvenient for you, but worth it.

So take care of your damn kids and you won't have to worry about what you assume to be non-parents talking shiat about you.

If the child is throwing a tantrum in a public place because they don't want to be there, then dropping everything and leaving accomplishes the following:

1) First, and foremost, it teaches the child that throwing a tantrum WORKED, that throwing a tantrum is an effective way to get what they want,
2) It shows the child that they can control their parents behavior simply by threatening to embarrass them in front of strangers,
3) In light of that, it rewards the tantrum and makes them more likely to occur in the future.

This is bad parenting.  It may be more comforting to random passersby, but it teaches the wrong lesson to the kid.  The lesson they need to learn is that the parents control the agenda, and can't be compelled to stop everything and leave simply because the child doesn't want to be there.  They need to learn that the tantrum is ineffective.


Nope. Nope. Nope. It only works that way for lame parents.

A REAL parent takes the kid outside and says "Go ahead. Have your tantrum. I'll wait. But when you're done we are going back inside."  Eventually he will run out of steam. Tantrums are hard work. And it teaches them that it won't get them home any faster.

Standing in the parking lot  has the side benefit of feeling like punishment. Call their bluff.
 
2013-09-17 01:04:36 PM
Years ago, my buddy and I went to a Stars Wars convention in Indianapolis. Long story short, he and his gf had broken up so I took her ticket, etc. One his ex's friends was going with her kids as well and we ended up on the same connecting flight from Vegas to Indy.

I can't remember how old the boys were at the time (probably 6ish and 3 or 4). They were freakishly well behaved. I ended sitting next to the older boy and he did the typical flight stuff (played with his tray, etc) but was very good otherwise especially considering that he was next to a stranger. That of course didn't stop the old man in front of us from being a grumpy ass because the kid put his tray up and down a few times.

I don't know why the old guy did that, but even back then ('02 and 6 years before I had a kid) I realized that the old guy was out of line and probably needed an attitude adjustment.
 
2013-09-17 01:08:55 PM

Kittypie070: Are you implying that the kid is deliberately throwing a premeditated tantrum in order to consciously manipulate the parents?


Kids learn quickly that throwing a fit gets a reaction form their parents.  If that reaction is giving the kid what they want, they will absolutely employ that tactic over and over.  This cannot be news.
 
2013-09-17 01:12:29 PM

Kittypie070: Doc Daneeka: 2) It shows the child that they can control their parents behavior simply by threatening to embarrass them in front of strangers,

Are you implying that the kid is deliberately throwing a premeditated tantrum in order to consciously manipulate the parents?

I hope you're not one of those "break the child's will" types. :/


Are you implying that kids DON'T try to manipulate people into get their own way?
 
2013-09-17 01:15:13 PM

Kittypie070: Doc Daneeka: 2) It shows the child that they can control their parents behavior simply by threatening to embarrass them in front of strangers,

Are you implying that the kid is deliberately throwing a premeditated tantrum in order to consciously manipulate the parents?

I hope you're not one of those "break the child's will" types. :/


No, not at all. I'm not saying it's premeditated at all.

I'm saying, what lesson do they take away after the fact, hen they see what kind of outcome and reaction they get from their parents?
 
2013-09-17 01:19:25 PM

Stoker: What Bullshiat.

The kid would not be having a tantrum if she raised her kids right knowing that only "the look" should shut them up.
Instead this kids carries one because he knows he is going to get away with it.

Damn pure and simple.

I was a kid once. You were too, remember? You always push the line to see how far you can go.
Mine was a short line compared to the pansy society of today.


Yep, and look how you turned out.

If you think a 3-year-old kid understands, "the look," you're in for a rude awakening if you ever end up having one.

I love the backseat parenting that basically amounts to Maddox's "beat your kids every day" joke.
 
2013-09-17 01:21:09 PM
Written like a true parent - with the assumption that the world is built for them and it is everyone's responsibility to help raise their kid ...in addition to paying for it.
 
2013-09-17 01:25:54 PM

bborchar: Kittypie070: Doc Daneeka: 2) It shows the child that they can control their parents behavior simply by threatening to embarrass them in front of strangers,

Are you implying that the kid is deliberately throwing a premeditated tantrum in order to consciously manipulate the parents?

I hope you're not one of those "break the child's will" types. :/

Are you implying that kids DON'T try to manipulate people into get their own way?


My 3 year old is the king of manipulation. And he knows exactly whose buttons he can push.

Judging tantrums all depends on the kid. My 5 year old has had one serious public meltdown. With him, I would probably remove him from a situation because a meltdown is more of a tired thing than a manipulation. His brother (the 3 year old) will throw a fit from time to time to try and get his way, so he needs to be treated a bit different in those situations.
 
2013-09-17 01:26:31 PM

Falstaff: As a new father of twin girls, feel free to express any opinion you want.  I may laugh, I may tell you off.  Either way, we'll be good.

Do NOT, however, just walk up and start rubbing their cheek or stroking their hair.  I just about knocked a woman out last night for doing that.  Didn't say two words to me, just walks up and starts rubbing my youngest's head.  Creepy as hell.



There are cultures where touching a child's head is very rude (typically Buddhist-influenced cultures).

There are also cultures where instead of being a bunch of self-centered a-holes, people help out parents instead of berating them constantly. In those cultures, children are seen as valuable assets to the community.

You don't want to deal with a kid having a meltdown? Try doing something to make a kid smile next time you are around one. If more people engaged children -- even just with a smile or wave -- there would be fewer children crying because they are bored or they want the slickly marketed food/toy they saw.
 
2013-09-17 01:35:43 PM

ArcadianRefugee: I don't have play football to know a good football player from a bad football player.

I don't have to play an instrument to know a good musician from a bad musician.

I don't have to be a parent to know a good parent from a bad parent, or good parenting from bad parenting.


Really?

There are several thousand douchenozzles out there that thought\still think that Tim Tebow is the second-coming of Johnny Jesus Unitas despite VOLUMES of film and others who say differently.

Also, I don't know SHIAT about music so I couldn't tell the difference between a good musician and a bad one. I am also tone deaf. So I could listen to a band and not know that some singer is off-pitch (unless badly) for an hour before I caught on.

However, YOU can tell the difference between good parents and bad parents in an isolated incident, in public, in mere seconds or minutes? Who are you the Amazing Kreskin?

// BULLSHIAT!
 
2013-09-17 01:37:59 PM

Digital Communist: Written like a true parent - with the assumption that the world is built for them and it is everyone's responsibility to help raise their kid ...in addition to paying for it.



Yup, If you don't like it, move.
 
2013-09-17 01:39:08 PM

Bendal: I actually saw a woman meltdown over kids acting up a few months ago. We were at a family restaurant eating lunch, and about 4 couples were eating at one table, while all their children were seated at another table. The kids were probably age 3 to 8, and they were acting like kids that age do; being noisy, getting up and talking to each other, and generally creating a lot of racket. The parents were engrossed in their own conversations, and only rarely did any of them say anything to the kids to calm down. A middle aged woman, sitting alone at a table near the kids, finally couldn't stand it any more, stood up and yelled "will all you kids sit down and behave!".

The restaurant fell dead silent for a moment, including the kids. The parents began actually trying to keep the kids quieter, and the restaurant staff offered to move the woman further away from the kid table. Our server just said "thank god I'm not taking care of those tables myself" the next time she came by.


Shiatty parenting. I see this a lot. Groups of adults get together, bring their kids, then socialize with the other adults while leaving the kids to get up to all sorts of hijinks. My BIL & SIL were the worst for this until I called them on it and they fell out with me (and, by default, my wife for a while). They never did get over it but I did notice each subsequent time I was in their company, they were more attentive and one of them was with their kids. They had a son somewhere on the autistic spectrum but they chose to ignore this fact and the little a-hole would act atrociously, quite often to my kids, his cousins.

I have 4 little-ish kids. We quit going to restaurants for a while when they just wouldn't behave. I didn't want to inflict that on anyone and I also didn't want to be part of it, either.  We do go out now, on occasion, but anything over a 15 minute wait for food and my kids start getting restless.  So it's  Skyline or Frischs usually.

Flights can be tough and, as a parent, you don't look forward to a 7 hour redeye to Paris with 4 little kids. You've paid $7500 for a half day of misery. As a young, single man I used to get pissed off with kids when I'd fly. As a father of 4, I tolerate crying on a flight a lot more than I used to. It's unpleasant but it's only a few hours.
 
2013-09-17 01:42:51 PM

GORDON: It isn't about your right to have an express an opinion, it has to do with class.  Children are a basic, fundamental, and generally harmless fact of life.  They always will be.  The only attitudes you change by sharing your anti-child views are in how the rest of the world perceives you, not children.

So keep it up.  The "no kids in restaurants!" crowd is a good, simple way to determine if someone is a classless douche, or not.


Once, a long time ago in a far away place, classy people didn't bring their children to adult restaurants.  They also don't use words like douche on a regular basis.

From this, we can know two things.  1) You aren't classy.  2) You aren't qualified to tell anyone else what classy is.
 
2013-09-17 01:43:14 PM
ghettodwarf:

You just gave me a THIS boner!  I was in Vegas for work last year.  On one of my evening drunken strolls down the strip (around 11pm-ish) I passed a family.  The mom was pushing a stroller (a 1 child stroller) that had a sleeping one year old in it AND a screaming two year old flopping around on top of the one year old.  The mom of course looked miserable, but I thought to myself "who the fark has toddlers out at 11pm...in Vegas...ON THE STRIP!".  Just as I was making a mental note to call my wife the next morning(who was home with our twin girls) I saw another couple with their (probably 10-12 year old son) and the kid was complaining about not feeling well.  Then right in front of me the kid pukes all over the sidewalk (had I been a little more sober, I would've puked on him as I am a sympathetic vomiter...in fact, I just heaved a little just thinking about it).  I walked down the street to my favorite hole in the wall bar, and got heatered thinking "I can't believe parents like this exist".


I'm not disagreeing with most of what you are saying, but I do want to bring up one thing.

I have, on occassion, taken my daughter out to the store at 11pm, or later, to get some things that she wants. People give me nasty looks because I have this toddler out so late.

What they don't know is that my daugther spends a good deal of time in Japan, visiting her grandmother. She's been there five times, each time for over a month, and she's just turned three.

When she gets back to the US, she's got a 16-hour time difference to deal with, so she's up a good part of the night until she can get back into a normal sleep pattern.

The fact that nobody has this background information, so make assumptions about my parenting skills, has helped me to put myself in other peoples' positions and consider that I might not have all of the details before I start passing judgement.
 
2013-09-17 01:45:16 PM
The last time I was in the grocery store and a kid was freaking right the hell out, I said this to the mom: "Jeez, I've got a five-year-old, and he can be a nightmare. It gets better." Then I told the kid that I was indeed the bad man that would take him away from his mommy because I could hear him. Be quiet and maybe I won't follow you home and take away your blankets and food. I am a bad person sometimes.
 
2013-09-17 01:45:51 PM

Cold_Sassy: My Mom had 4 children and, back in the day, you were still permitted to spank your child and that took care of most behavioral issues.  I honestly can't remember me or any of my 3 brothers ever throwing a fit.  I'm sure we must have, but you could count on old Mom lowering the boom and that stemmed most bad behavior.

Too bad some stupid jerkoffs had to make that a crime.


THIS.

hailin: I threw exactly one fit in public. My mom stopped what she was doing, bent me over her knee, spanked me, and then went on shopping. Everyone around me started laughing and clapping. I was mortified and clearly remember it even though I was just about four.

I grew up just fine. Embarrassment, shaming, and spanking are effective parenting techniques, but they have fallen "out" with new age parents. Now we have a generation of entitled little douchebags who can't handle rejection, think they are always special, and are mediocre. Yes, no spanking, time-outs, and bullshiat "achievment" awards have made our society so much better.


PLUS THIS!

Missicat: Cold_Sassy: My Mom had 4 children and, back in the day, you were still permitted to spank your child and that took care of most behavioral issues.  I honestly can't remember me or any of my 3 brothers ever throwing a fit.  I'm sure we must have, but you could count on old Mom lowering the boom and that stemmed most bad behavior.

Too bad some stupid jerkoffs had to make that a crime.

Same here.  Except I was one of seven. Yes, seven.  And my mom does wonder why parents can't control their kids.  If we went out to a restaurant as a family, and one of us acted up...guess who had to stay home the next time with a babysitter.  We had these things called "consequences" when we misbehaved.


PLUS THIS!

The math the article writer refers to is not that hard, he's just stupid.

It's simple: kid + punishment + consistency = discipline.
 
2013-09-17 01:49:06 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: Cold_Sassy: My Mom had 4 children and, back in the day, you were still permitted to spank your child and that took care of most behavioral issues.  I honestly can't remember me or any of my 3 brothers ever throwing a fit.  I'm sure we must have, but you could count on old Mom lowering the boom and that stemmed most bad behavior.

Too bad some stupid jerkoffs had to make that a crime.

THIS.

hailin: I threw exactly one fit in public. My mom stopped what she was doing, bent me over her knee, spanked me, and then went on shopping. Everyone around me started laughing and clapping. I was mortified and clearly remember it even though I was just about four.

I grew up just fine. Embarrassment, shaming, and spanking are effective parenting techniques, but they have fallen "out" with new age parents. Now we have a generation of entitled little douchebags who can't handle rejection, think they are always special, and are mediocre. Yes, no spanking, time-outs, and bullshiat "achievment" awards have made our society so much better.

PLUS THIS!

Missicat: Cold_Sassy: My Mom had 4 children and, back in the day, you were still permitted to spank your child and that took care of most behavioral issues.  I honestly can't remember me or any of my 3 brothers ever throwing a fit.  I'm sure we must have, but you could count on old Mom lowering the boom and that stemmed most bad behavior.

Too bad some stupid jerkoffs had to make that a crime.

Same here.  Except I was one of seven. Yes, seven.  And my mom does wonder why parents can't control their kids.  If we went out to a restaurant as a family, and one of us acted up...guess who had to stay home the next time with a babysitter.  We had these things called "consequences" when we misbehaved.

PLUS THIS!

The math the article writer refers to is not that hard, he's just stupid.

It's simple: kid + punishment + consistency = discipline.


Oh yes, I forgot, the plural of anecdote is data!

// Thank you for telling us how to raise children, I am now a far better parent for having read this!
// </sarcasm>
 
2013-09-17 01:49:34 PM

Kahabut: GORDON: It isn't about your right to have an express an opinion, it has to do with class.  Children are a basic, fundamental, and generally harmless fact of life.  They always will be.  The only attitudes you change by sharing your anti-child views are in how the rest of the world perceives you, not children.

So keep it up.  The "no kids in restaurants!" crowd is a good, simple way to determine if someone is a classless douche, or not.

Once, a long time ago in a far away place, classy people didn't bring their children to adult restaurants.  They also don't use words like douche on a regular basis.

From this, we can know two things.  1) You aren't classy.  2) You aren't qualified to tell anyone else what classy is.


3) Anyone using the word "classy" thinks that leopard-print leggings are just fine while smoking Pall Malls. "Hey there baby! I'm a real classy dame! Ya wanna come sniff my website? I got a LOT of Mickeys wide mouths and Some classic Foreigner vinyl that ain't gonna play itself! Classy as hell - real high-ender here!"
 
2013-09-17 01:49:56 PM

RumsfeldsReplacement: I do feel like I should at least point out that the author of this blog is somebody who declined to immunize his children against Hepatitis B because only people who have promiscuous sex get Hepatitis B.

So we're not talking about a rocket surgeon here.


i302.photobucket.com

/You're not dealing with morons here.
 
2013-09-17 01:50:00 PM

lostcat: Stoker: What Bullshiat.

The kid would not be having a tantrum if she raised her kids right knowing that only "the look" should shut them up.
Instead this kids carries one because he knows he is going to get away with it.

Damn pure and simple.

I was a kid once. You were too, remember? You always push the line to see how far you can go.
Mine was a short line compared to the pansy society of today.

Yep, and look how you turned out.

If you think a 3-year-old kid understands, "the look," you're in for a rude awakening if you ever end up having one.

I love the backseat parenting that basically amounts to Maddox's "beat your kids every day" joke.


Well if that look is a clear indication that a spanking is imminent, it can work wonders.

But you're probably too naive to comprehend that.
 
2013-09-17 01:52:43 PM

forever_blowing_bubbles: Agent Smiths Laugh: Cold_Sassy: My Mom had 4 children and, back in the day, you were still permitted to spank your child and that took care of most behavioral issues.  I honestly can't remember me or any of my 3 brothers ever throwing a fit.  I'm sure we must have, but you could count on old Mom lowering the boom and that stemmed most bad behavior.

Too bad some stupid jerkoffs had to make that a crime.

THIS.

hailin: I threw exactly one fit in public. My mom stopped what she was doing, bent me over her knee, spanked me, and then went on shopping. Everyone around me started laughing and clapping. I was mortified and clearly remember it even though I was just about four.

I grew up just fine. Embarrassment, shaming, and spanking are effective parenting techniques, but they have fallen "out" with new age parents. Now we have a generation of entitled little douchebags who can't handle rejection, think they are always special, and are mediocre. Yes, no spanking, time-outs, and bullshiat "achievment" awards have made our society so much better.

PLUS THIS!

Missicat: Cold_Sassy: My Mom had 4 children and, back in the day, you were still permitted to spank your child and that took care of most behavioral issues.  I honestly can't remember me or any of my 3 brothers ever throwing a fit.  I'm sure we must have, but you could count on old Mom lowering the boom and that stemmed most bad behavior.

Too bad some stupid jerkoffs had to make that a crime.

Same here.  Except I was one of seven. Yes, seven.  And my mom does wonder why parents can't control their kids.  If we went out to a restaurant as a family, and one of us acted up...guess who had to stay home the next time with a babysitter.  We had these things called "consequences" when we misbehaved.

PLUS THIS!

The math the article writer refers to is not that hard, he's just stupid.

It's simple: kid + punishment + consistency = discipline.

Oh yes, I forgot, the plural of anecdote is data!

// Thank you for telling us ...


Not my fault if you ignore the obvious. Not my problem either. I'm not responsible for your ignorance of the human animal.
 
2013-09-17 01:53:36 PM
Okay, oh childless peoplewith all of your disposable income, let us mere peasant parents know exactly which places we are allowed to bring our children so as not to intrude upon your precious world of peace and quiet.  Because so far, I've noticed that I'm not allowed to take my children:

1. On any form of public transportation you might be riding
2. In any restaurant you eat at
3. To sporting events of any kind
4. Down a sidewalk where you might be walking
5. To any entertainment venue which you might be at
6. To any store in which you might be shopping

Now, tell me...who's the special snowflake?
 
2013-09-17 01:55:49 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: Cold_Sassy: My Mom had 4 children and, back in the day, you were still permitted to spank your child and that took care of most behavioral issues.  I honestly can't remember me or any of my 3 brothers ever throwing a fit.  I'm sure we must have, but you could count on old Mom lowering the boom and that stemmed most bad behavior.

Too bad some stupid jerkoffs had to make that a crime.

THIS.

hailin: I threw exactly one fit in public. My mom stopped what she was doing, bent me over her knee, spanked me, and then went on shopping. Everyone around me started laughing and clapping. I was mortified and clearly remember it even though I was just about four.

I grew up just fine. Embarrassment, shaming, and spanking are effective parenting techniques, but they have fallen "out" with new age parents. Now we have a generation of entitled little douchebags who can't handle rejection, think they are always special, and are mediocre. Yes, no spanking, time-outs, and bullshiat "achievment" awards have made our society so much better.

PLUS THIS!

Missicat: Cold_Sassy: My Mom had 4 children and, back in the day, you were still permitted to spank your child and that took care of most behavioral issues.  I honestly can't remember me or any of my 3 brothers ever throwing a fit.  I'm sure we must have, but you could count on old Mom lowering the boom and that stemmed most bad behavior.

Too bad some stupid jerkoffs had to make that a crime.

Same here.  Except I was one of seven. Yes, seven.  And my mom does wonder why parents can't control their kids.  If we went out to a restaurant as a family, and one of us acted up...guess who had to stay home the next time with a babysitter.  We had these things called "consequences" when we misbehaved.

PLUS THIS!

The math the article writer refers to is not that hard, he's just stupid.

It's simple: kid + punishment + consistency = discipline.


Did you ever think that maybe you were weird or had a pituitary foul-up or something, and your parents were just a couple of hayseeds that smacked the shiat out of you because that's all they could think to do? "I am going to kick my kids ass, because I'm a grown-up now! My world!! You just live in it!" So when your children stick you in a shiat-smeared nursing home to get back at you, you could just say "Hell, it's their world now - they done went and beat me!" Idiot.
 
2013-09-17 01:56:12 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: forever_blowing_bubbles: Agent Smiths Laugh: Cold_Sassy: My Mom had 4 children and, back in the day, you were still permitted to spank your child and that took care of most behavioral issues.  I honestly can't remember me or any of my 3 brothers ever throwing a fit.  I'm sure we must have, but you could count on old Mom lowering the boom and that stemmed most bad behavior.

Too bad some stupid jerkoffs had to make that a crime.

THIS.

hailin: I threw exactly one fit in public. My mom stopped what she was doing, bent me over her knee, spanked me, and then went on shopping. Everyone around me started laughing and clapping. I was mortified and clearly remember it even though I was just about four.

I grew up just fine. Embarrassment, shaming, and spanking are effective parenting techniques, but they have fallen "out" with new age parents. Now we have a generation of entitled little douchebags who can't handle rejection, think they are always special, and are mediocre. Yes, no spanking, time-outs, and bullshiat "achievment" awards have made our society so much better.

PLUS THIS!

Missicat: Cold_Sassy: My Mom had 4 children and, back in the day, you were still permitted to spank your child and that took care of most behavioral issues.  I honestly can't remember me or any of my 3 brothers ever throwing a fit.  I'm sure we must have, but you could count on old Mom lowering the boom and that stemmed most bad behavior.

Too bad some stupid jerkoffs had to make that a crime.

Same here.  Except I was one of seven. Yes, seven.  And my mom does wonder why parents can't control their kids.  If we went out to a restaurant as a family, and one of us acted up...guess who had to stay home the next time with a babysitter.  We had these things called "consequences" when we misbehaved.

PLUS THIS!

The math the article writer refers to is not that hard, he's just stupid.

It's simple: kid + punishment + consistency = discipline.

Oh yes, I forgot, the plural of anecdote is data!

// ...


Okay, now what is the punishment that every parent should use on every child that works every time no matter what age or temperament or gender they are?
 
2013-09-17 01:56:37 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: Not my fault if you ignore the obvious. Not my problem either. I'm not responsible for your ignorance of the human animal

.

You know how I know you a) don't have children, and b) are full of shiat? Go on guess!
 
2013-09-17 01:59:26 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: lostcat: Stoker: What Bullshiat.

The kid would not be having a tantrum if she raised her kids right knowing that only "the look" should shut them up.
Instead this kids carries one because he knows he is going to get away with it.

Damn pure and simple.

I was a kid once. You were too, remember? You always push the line to see how far you can go.
Mine was a short line compared to the pansy society of today.

Yep, and look how you turned out.

If you think a 3-year-old kid understands, "the look," you're in for a rude awakening if you ever end up having one.

I love the backseat parenting that basically amounts to Maddox's "beat your kids every day" joke.

Well if that look is a clear indication that a spanking is imminent, it can work wonders.

But you're probably too naive to comprehend that.



I got the look from my father all time. If I addidentally dropped my fork at a restaurant, I got the flaired nostrils and menacing brows. When we got home, he would send me up to his closet to get "the belt" and then wait for him in my room.

"The belt" had Buffalo-head nickels riveted in it at 4-inch intervals. When he hit me with it, I would have nickel-shaped imprints on my legs and ass for hours.

When we weren't home, he would just backhand me.

Was I an exceptionally well-behaved, quiet child? You bet your sweet bippy I was.

I also have a seething hatred for my father.

Don't really want to go down that same path with my own kids.
 
2013-09-17 01:59:32 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: forever_blowing_bubbles: Agent Smiths Laugh: Cold_Sassy: My Mom had 4 children and, back in the day, you were still permitted to spank your child and that took care of most behavioral issues.  I honestly can't remember me or any of my 3 brothers ever throwing a fit.  I'm sure we must have, but you could count on old Mom lowering the boom and that stemmed most bad behavior.

Too bad some stupid jerkoffs had to make that a crime.

THIS.

hailin: I threw exactly one fit in public. My mom stopped what she was doing, bent me over her knee, spanked me, and then went on shopping. Everyone around me started laughing and clapping. I was mortified and clearly remember it even though I was just about four.

I grew up just fine. Embarrassment, shaming, and spanking are effective parenting techniques, but they have fallen "out" with new age parents. Now we have a generation of entitled little douchebags who can't handle rejection, think they are always special, and are mediocre. Yes, no spanking, time-outs, and bullshiat "achievment" awards have made our society so much better.

PLUS THIS!

Missicat: Cold_Sassy: My Mom had 4 children and, back in the day, you were still permitted to spank your child and that took care of most behavioral issues.  I honestly can't remember me or any of my 3 brothers ever throwing a fit.  I'm sure we must have, but you could count on old Mom lowering the boom and that stemmed most bad behavior.

Too bad some stupid jerkoffs had to make that a crime.

Same here.  Except I was one of seven. Yes, seven.  And my mom does wonder why parents can't control their kids.  If we went out to a restaurant as a family, and one of us acted up...guess who had to stay home the next time with a babysitter.  We had these things called "consequences" when we misbehaved.

PLUS THIS!

The math the article writer refers to is not that hard, he's just stupid.

It's simple: kid + punishment + consistency = discipline.

Oh yes, I forgot, the plural of anecdote is data!

// ...


That's also quite the lack of understanding a social contract. "Ain't my fault, ain't my problem!" Nice to know you live in a farking bubble. So please stay in it, otherwise you'll meet people in a society, and when none of them are your 'fault' or 'problem', they might begin to think that it's you, in fact, that can't be trusted to behave.
 
2013-09-17 02:00:15 PM

bborchar: Okay, now what is the punishment that every parent should use on every child that works every time no matter what age or temperament or gender they are?


Obvioulsy you should smack your children every chance you get. That's the only way they'll grow up to be well-adjusted, non-judgemental, totally sane, and the slightest bit self centered like Agent Smith Laughs. I mean, who wouldn't be proud of an upstanding "man" like him?!?
 
2013-09-17 02:01:39 PM

forever_blowing_bubbles: bborchar: Okay, now what is the punishment that every parent should use on every child that works every time no matter what age or temperament or gender they are?

Obvioulsy you should smack your children every chance you get. That's the only way they'll grow up to be well-adjusted, non-judgemental, totally sane, and NOT the slightest bit self centered like Agent Smith Laughs. I mean, who wouldn't be proud of an upstanding "man" like him?!?


// FTFM
 
2013-09-17 02:01:51 PM

Joe USer: New Slang: Joe USer: New Slang: Why punish the parent?  Just slap the kid up the back of the head or trip them when the parent is not looking

1/10, your trolling needs work.

No.  Your opinion doesn't matter.  Get over it.

So you were actually advocating assaulting a child?

In that case 2/10. Keep trying.


Cut it some slack. The account's only a week old. The persona hasn't had time to ferment yet.
 
2013-09-17 02:12:07 PM

lostcat: ghettodwarf:

You just gave me a THIS boner!  I was in Vegas for work last year.  On one of my evening drunken strolls down the strip (around 11pm-ish) I passed a family.  The mom was pushing a stroller (a 1 child stroller) that had a sleeping one year old in it AND a screaming two year old flopping around on top of the one year old.  The mom of course looked miserable, but I thought to myself "who the fark has toddlers out at 11pm...in Vegas...ON THE STRIP!".  Just as I was making a mental note to call my wife the next morning(who was home with our twin girls) I saw another couple with their (probably 10-12 year old son) and the kid was complaining about not feeling well.  Then right in front of me the kid pukes all over the sidewalk (had I been a little more sober, I would've puked on him as I am a sympathetic vomiter...in fact, I just heaved a little just thinking about it).  I walked down the street to my favorite hole in the wall bar, and got heatered thinking "I can't believe parents like this exist".


I'm not disagreeing with most of what you are saying, but I do want to bring up one thing.

I have, on occassion, taken my daughter out to the store at 11pm, or later, to get some things that she wants. People give me nasty looks because I have this toddler out so late.

What they don't know is that my daugther spends a good deal of time in Japan, visiting her grandmother. She's been there five times, each time for over a month, and she's just turned three.

When she gets back to the US, she's got a 16-hour time difference to deal with, so she's up a good part of the night until she can get back into a normal sleep pattern.

The fact that nobody has this background information, so make assumptions about my parenting skills, has helped me to put myself in other peoples' positions and consider that I might not have all of the details before I start passing judgement.


Actually the 11pm bit was an aside, I generally don't care if a child is up at a certain time because some kids like to stay up late.  With my girls, one passes out promptly at 7:30 every night, the other sometimes doesn't show any signs of slowing down till 9:30 or 10.  as long as they're not exhausted when they get ready for school in the morning (which they're not) I don't mind.  The importance of 11pm in this case was it was the Vegas strip.  Have you ever been on the strip in Vegas at 11pm?  It is nuts to butts packed with drunken adults.  And there's no reason to be there with a child, as you have to be 21 to enter just about any building.  The difference here is between being in a store at 11pm with your non-exhausted child, or being on what amounts to the crowded patio of a giant bar at 11pm with your obviously extremely tired child.
 
2013-09-17 02:12:08 PM

bborchar: It's simple: kid + punishment + consistency = discipline.

Oh yes, I forgot, the plural of anecdote is data!

// ...

Okay, now what is the punishment that every parent should use on every child that works every time no matter what age or temperament or gender they are?


Depends on the kid. Some kids respond well to corporal punishment. Some don't. It takes effort on the part of the parent to find what works on the kid. Once found though it should be applied fairly and consistently, and time should be taken to inform the child of what actions incur what consequences. The consequences may be variable depending on the undesired behavior.

What it should not be is appeasement. Appeasement for bad behavior is not punishment, it's capitulation. It sets a bad precedent that a child will notice and take advantage of with surprising regularity. Appeasement should only happen for good behavior as a reward.

Failing to do anything is also a poor method. Apathy is only slightly less ineffective than appeasement for bad behavior.

Teach them that there is acceptable and unacceptable behavior and that acceptable behavior is rewarded and unacceptable behavior is punished. Then be consistent about enforcing both of those results.

But as I said: kid + punishment + consistency = discipline. Which also applies to kid + reward + consistency.
 
2013-09-17 02:13:22 PM
A.) The tantrum worked, and they've discovered an easy and effective way of controlling their parent's behavior when out in public.


So then yes, you are that stupid. Good luck with parenting.
 
2013-09-17 02:14:15 PM
Then don't shove your kids photos in my face unsolicited! Problem solved!
 
2013-09-17 02:14:20 PM

bborchar: Okay, oh childless peoplewith all of your disposable income, let us mere peasant parents know exactly which places we are allowed to bring our children so as not to intrude upon your precious world of peace and quiet.  Because so far, I've noticed that I'm not allowed to take my children:

1. On any form of public transportation you might be riding
2. In any restaurant you eat at
3. To sporting events of any kind
4. Down a sidewalk where you might be walking
5. To any entertainment venue which you might be at
6. To any store in which you might be shopping

Now, tell me...who's the special snowflake?



If you're not going to pay attention to what's already been said then you'll have to sit at the kiddie table.
 
2013-09-17 02:18:18 PM

forever_blowing_bubbles: Agent Smiths Laugh: Not my fault if you ignore the obvious. Not my problem either. I'm not responsible for your ignorance of the human animal.

You know how I know you a) don't have children, and b) are full of shiat? Go on guess!


forever_blowing_bubbles: bborchar: Okay, now what is the punishment that every parent should use on every child that works every time no matter what age or temperament or gender they are?

Obvioulsy you should smack your children every chance you get. That's the only way they'll grow up to be well-adjusted, non-judgemental, totally sane, and the slightest bit self centered like Agent Smith Laughs. I mean, who wouldn't be proud of an upstanding "man" like him?!?


Wanna know how I know you're not psychic?

But you sure do try hard, I'll give you that.

What amuses me is just how completely powerless all of your vitriol is. For all your lashing out, you simply will not ever manage to change my opinions or experiences. So I just get to watch you spin and twirl in anger.
 
2013-09-17 02:21:34 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Marcintosh: You know, act like a christian or something

Why is it always on everybody BUT the christians to act christian?


*shrug* dunno but it seems to run right across the franchise.
 
2013-09-17 02:21:51 PM

Mugato: I have a niece and nephew I take out sometimes and I've never had any problems with their throwing a tantrum or acting up. Take some parenting classes



I stopped after this comment because I couldn't stop laughing! I'm sure that you have been thoroughly berated and then defended by now, but I just had to comment!

Oh, never mind...I'm still laughing too hard!
 
2013-09-17 02:23:28 PM

Allen. The end.: That's also quite the lack of understanding a social contract. "Ain't my fault, ain't my problem!" Nice to know you live in a farking bubble. So please stay in it, otherwise you'll meet people in a society, and when none of them are your 'fault' or 'problem', they might begin to think that it's you, in fact, that can't be trusted to behave.


My comment was directed specifically at forever_blowing_bubbles. Are you telling me that I'm somehow responsible for him/her now?
 
2013-09-17 02:24:29 PM

leonel: Then don't shove your kids photos in my face unsolicited! Problem solved!


Unless you have a hot 18 year old daughter.

/FTFM
 
2013-09-17 02:28:27 PM
There's a strange attitude prevalent amongst childless and one-child people, that whatever worked either for them growing up or for their one kid will work for all kids, as though they aren't different people with different personalities. The one guy talking about the imminent-spanking look should try my four year old. He will look you dead in the eye like bring it! and then after the spanking is that all you got? Everyone says time-out is a wimpy form of discipline and I used to agree, until it turned out to be the best method for this kid. Usually produces desirable results in 5 minutes or less.
 
2013-09-17 02:32:57 PM

milkyshirt: e will look you dead in the eye like bring it!

 
2013-09-17 02:34:10 PM

milkyshirt: He will look you dead in the eye like bring it!


the4threalm.com

/image post fail
 
2013-09-17 02:37:30 PM
In my observations parents do not get better at parenting the more kids they have.  Yeah maybe we learn some tricks for the second one to use but ultimately a bad parent is a bad parent...in fact it seems to me that by the 3rd and 4th kid  they may actually be WORSE parents (maybe they are exhausted of taking care of them so long or maybe the oldest siblings are helping too much with the upbringing??)

Anyways...

The good parents I've seen are usually good parents from the second their first kid come into their life.

To me that says that some people are just naturally more intuitive and skilled with parenting.

So, ultimately I would say yes, non-parents can do just as well and even know better than those who decide to (or accidentally do) procreate.
 
2013-09-17 02:37:35 PM

milkyshirt: There's a strange attitude prevalent amongst childless and one-child people, that whatever worked either for them growing up or for their one kid will work for all kids, as though they aren't different people with different personalities. The one guy talking about the imminent-spanking look should try my four year old. He will look you dead in the eye like bring it! and then after the spanking is that all you got? Everyone says time-out is a wimpy form of discipline and I used to agree, until it turned out to be the best method for this kid. Usually produces desirable results in 5 minutes or less.


If you're referring to my comments understand that I consider corporal punishment merely one of the tools in the toolbox, not the only tool. My primary point was that consistency is key.
 
2013-09-17 02:38:25 PM
When I was a toddler and had a meltdown, my mother abandoned the cart, took me home, and didn't take me anywhere. For months. She didn't go shopping until dad was home, and would leave me with him. And would rub it in that she was leaving and I wasn't allowed to go because I couldn't behave in public.

I learned.

/has no kids
//will never have kids
///strongly dislikes kids
 
2013-09-17 02:41:20 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: If you're referring to my comments understand that I consider corporal punishment merely one of the tools in the toolbox, not the only tool


I don't know, I think it's important to teach a child at an early age that beating a smaller person into submission is an excellent way of getting what you want. Just don't you do that to a fellow student or that's bullying.
 
2013-09-17 02:42:30 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: milkyshirt: There's a strange attitude prevalent amongst childless and one-child people, that whatever worked either for them growing up or for their one kid will work for all kids, as though they aren't different people with different personalities. The one guy talking about the imminent-spanking look should try my four year old. He will look you dead in the eye like bring it! and then after the spanking is that all you got? Everyone says time-out is a wimpy form of discipline and I used to agree, until it turned out to be the best method for this kid. Usually produces desirable results in 5 minutes or less.

If you're referring to my comments understand that I consider corporal punishment merely one of the tools in the toolbox, not the only tool. My primary point was that consistency is key.


Oh no, your previous post made that clear. My post wasn't directed at you, just the thread in general. :)
 
2013-09-17 02:42:37 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: forever_blowing_bubbles: Agent Smiths Laugh: Not my fault if you ignore the obvious. Not my problem either. I'm not responsible for your ignorance of the human animal.

You know how I know you a) don't have children, and b) are full of shiat? Go on guess!

forever_blowing_bubbles: bborchar: Okay, now what is the punishment that every parent should use on every child that works every time no matter what age or temperament or gender they are?

Obvioulsy you should smack your children every chance you get. That's the only way they'll grow up to be well-adjusted, non-judgemental, totally sane, and the slightest bit self centered like Agent Smith Laughs. I mean, who wouldn't be proud of an upstanding "man" like him?!?

Wanna know how I know you're not psychic?

But you sure do try hard, I'll give you that.

What amuses me is just how completely powerless all of your vitriol is. For all your lashing out, you simply will not ever manage to change my opinions or experiences. So I just get to watch you spin and twirl in anger.


Yes, I must feel as powerless right now as you do when those children ruin your life by being children. You want to smack them and feel like a big man but you just can't!

// This is what it sounds like when doves cry!
 
2013-09-17 02:44:05 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: wickedragon: Of course non-parents are allowed to have opinions on how to rear human mini-beasts.
It's just that hvaing an opinoin and having a valid opinion is two different things.
And having an opinion and loudly voicing that opinion is two different things.

See, if you think blue is a better color for a car than yellow, that's perfectly okay. Going up to every yellow-colored car you see and loudly proclaiming that they suck at owning cars is still stupid.

And, if you think that it sucks that your your car has four wheels and that it would be better if it had three that is perfectly within your right. You're wrong, but so are we all at some point or another. Not voicing your very very stupid opinion will help you convince others that you are not very very stupid. So please keep your mouth shut.

To paraphrase (and translate) Håvamål:

It's better to keep your mouth shut
And let people belive you a fool
than to open your mouth
and remove all doubt.

PS! in old norse it rhymes and is thus more awsome

We'll keep our mouths shut when you show us that you're trying to take care of your hollering offspring. Until then, guess you'll have to deal with the glares and murmurings.


I've never let my children go on a rampage without sitting them down and talking sternly to them, or comforting them, picking them up or similar. I say "I'm sorry" if they seem to be bothering someone. I've never taken a child to a grown-up movie theater or let them run up and down the isle on an airplane. I've never let them destroy anything in public and then pretend like they didn't do it. I don't have a huge problem with my kids throwing temper tantrums, but as the youngest is two and the oldest is three it is a thing that happens.

Now please don't act like I should throw away everything and leave the store because my two year old has a cry for a couple of minutes, or leave the bus because one of them has an off day. I'm doing my best, I care, and I will continue to do so until I die.
I can make the tantrums go away. It almost never takes more than a couple of minutes. But I can't make them not happen, because nobody can.
 
2013-09-17 02:48:14 PM

Mugato: Agent Smiths Laugh: If you're referring to my comments understand that I consider corporal punishment merely one of the tools in the toolbox, not the only tool

I don't know, I think it's important to teach a child at an early age that beating a smaller person into submission is an excellent way of getting what you want. Just don't you do that to a fellow student or that's bullying.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-09-17 02:51:50 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: bborchar: It's simple: kid + punishment + consistency = discipline.

Oh yes, I forgot, the plural of anecdote is data!

// ...

Okay, now what is the punishment that every parent should use on every child that works every time no matter what age or temperament or gender they are?

Depends on the kid. Some kids respond well to corporal punishment. Some don't. It takes effort on the part of the parent to find what works on the kid. Once found though it should be applied fairly and consistently, and time should be taken to inform the child of what actions incur what consequences. The consequences may be variable depending on the undesired behavior.

What it should not be is appeasement. Appeasement for bad behavior is not punishment, it's capitulation. It sets a bad precedent that a child will notice and take advantage of with surprising regularity. Appeasement should only happen for good behavior as a reward.

Failing to do anything is also a poor method. Apathy is only slightly less ineffective than appeasement for bad behavior.

Teach them that there is acceptable and unacceptable behavior and that acceptable behavior is rewarded and unacceptable behavior is punished. Then be consistent about enforcing both of those results.

But as I said: kid + punishment + consistency = discipline. Which also applies to kid + reward + consistency.


No kid responds well to corporal punishment.  THAT'S lazy parenting.  "I'll hit my kid, that'll show them who's boss!"  And then you teach the kid that it's okay to hit and bully others to get their way.  Consistency and rewards important, and if you consistently say "No, we have to finish the grocery shopping before we leave", you teach the kid that crying and throwing a temper tantrum doesn't get them out of doing something they don't want to do.  Rewarding them afterwards is also very important, because then they learn that if they put up with an activity they don't want, they get to do something they do want to do.  Both of these are something many parents don't do, but I fail to see how someone can look at a mother with a crying kid in the grocery store and automatically know whether or not she is applying these techniques to her child.  Now, if the kid is jumping around and grabbing things, then you can say "okay, that's out of control", but that's pretty rare.
 
2013-09-17 02:54:20 PM

forever_blowing_bubbles: Agent Smiths Laugh: forever_blowing_bubbles: Agent Smiths Laugh: Not my fault if you ignore the obvious. Not my problem either. I'm not responsible for your ignorance of the human animal.

You know how I know you a) don't have children, and b) are full of shiat? Go on guess!

forever_blowing_bubbles: bborchar: Okay, now what is the punishment that every parent should use on every child that works every time no matter what age or temperament or gender they are?

Obvioulsy you should smack your children every chance you get. That's the only way they'll grow up to be well-adjusted, non-judgemental, totally sane, and the slightest bit self centered like Agent Smith Laughs. I mean, who wouldn't be proud of an upstanding "man" like him?!?

Wanna know how I know you're not psychic?

But you sure do try hard, I'll give you that.

What amuses me is just how completely powerless all of your vitriol is. For all your lashing out, you simply will not ever manage to change my opinions or experiences. So I just get to watch you spin and twirl in anger.

Yes, I must feel as powerless right now as you do when those children ruin your life by being children. You want to smack them and feel like a big man but you just can't!

// This is what it sounds like when doves cry!


Just keep on spinning those ad hominem attacks. It really is amusing watching you pretend to know everything about me.

What's your next trick?

rkutchjm.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-09-17 03:01:11 PM

chubby muppet: As a new parent, I am very aware of my surroundings.  I would never stay in a store if my baby was having a meltdown.  You take her outside and if there's no hope of calming down, you go home.  Sure it's inconvenient, but rolling the dice is part of being a parent.  You take your chances, and many times it's good with a lot of people smiling and saying hi to you and your baby.  But on those bad days you pack it up and go home.  Very very simple.


Late to the party, but congratulations on the new kiddo!!!
:)
 
2013-09-17 03:04:19 PM
I was just remembering this horrible tantrum that I witnessed in a grocery store last week. You could hear it from every corner, and I encountered it on the chip aisle. The screaming was bad enough, but then there was a string of various vile remarks like "I hate you" and "You're stupid" that were slung in the father's direction. About that time, she let out a yell and rammed the father with the grocery cart at full speed.

/The culprit: the man's wife.
//Their two kids were actually pretty well behaved.
 
2013-09-17 03:04:29 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: Uranus Is Huge!: It's usually hard to fault a parent when you see their child have a public tantrum... the first time.

Repeated public tantrums indicate a child unfamiliar with consequences.

How can you tell the difference?


You can't, generally.  This is where nice people give others the benefit of the doubt, and less nice people become smug judgmental asshats.
 
2013-09-17 03:08:32 PM

bborchar: Agent Smiths Laugh: bborchar: It's simple: kid + punishment + consistency = discipline.

Oh yes, I forgot, the plural of anecdote is data!

// ...

Okay, now what is the punishment that every parent should use on every child that works every time no matter what age or temperament or gender they are?

Depends on the kid. Some kids respond well to corporal punishment. Some don't. It takes effort on the part of the parent to find what works on the kid. Once found though it should be applied fairly and consistently, and time should be taken to inform the child of what actions incur what consequences. The consequences may be variable depending on the undesired behavior.

What it should not be is appeasement. Appeasement for bad behavior is not punishment, it's capitulation. It sets a bad precedent that a child will notice and take advantage of with surprising regularity. Appeasement should only happen for good behavior as a reward.

Failing to do anything is also a poor method. Apathy is only slightly less ineffective than appeasement for bad behavior.

Teach them that there is acceptable and unacceptable behavior and that acceptable behavior is rewarded and unacceptable behavior is punished. Then be consistent about enforcing both of those results.

But as I said: kid + punishment + consistency = discipline. Which also applies to kid + reward + consistency.

No kid responds well to corporal punishment.  THAT'S lazy parenting.  "I'll hit my kid, that'll show them who's boss!"  And then you teach the kid that it's okay to hit and bully others to get their way.  Consistency and rewards important, and if you consistently say "No, we have to finish the grocery shopping before we leave", you teach the kid that crying and throwing a temper tantrum doesn't get them out of doing something they don't want to do.  Rewarding them afterwards is also very important, because then they learn that if they put up with an activity they don't want, they get to do something they do want to ...


I think you are mistaken, and also misconstrue the intention and methodology I mean to convey.

No punishment, corporal or otherwise, should be undertaken without significant communication with the child about what the punishment is and why it's done, nor should it be engaged in by the parent in anger or out of a desire for mere domination. It should be done with empathy, compassion, a desire to teach discipline, and first and foremost with love for the child well in mind.

If you beat or spank your kid just because you're pissed off, you've made a grievous mistake.

Also I did mention that I consider it merely one tool, and not always the right tool in previous posts. Maybe you didn't notice.

You have your opinion, I have mine. I very much doubt either of us will change the others mind.
 
2013-09-17 03:10:37 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: If you're referring to my comments understand that I consider corporal punishment merely one of the tools in the toolbox, not the only tool. My primary point was that consistency is key.


Consistency is key, but corporal punishment is pretty much considered ineffective for long term discipline. At 5, you remember getting hit, not why you got hit.
 
2013-09-17 03:11:22 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: [farktardery] What's your next trick?


It involves a time machine and a condom. If all goes well, you won't be around to see it!
 
2013-09-17 03:11:43 PM

safeforwork: GoldSpider: Something tells me that many of these parents who want you to "just deal with" their shrieking crotchfruit have a slightly different opinion on second-hand smoke.

And in the reverse: I know for a fact that MANY (by many I mean among my own experiences) 'anti child' people are perfectly okay smoking in public, or drinking and driving, or throwing their own temper tantrums, and expect everyone to 'just deal with it'


Thread over!
 
2013-09-17 03:12:33 PM
I don't know, I think it's important to teach a child at an early age that beating a smaller person into submission is an excellent way of getting what you want. Just don't you do that to a fellow student or that's bullying.

the point->
you


I dunno. i thought it was funny.
 
2013-09-17 03:13:43 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: bborchar: Agent Smiths Laugh: bborchar: It's simple: kid + punishment + consistency = discipline.

Oh yes, I forgot, the plural of anecdote is data!

// ...

Okay, now what is the punishment that every parent should use on every child that works every time no matter what age or temperament or gender they are?

Depends on the kid. Some kids respond well to corporal punishment. Some don't. It takes effort on the part of the parent to find what works on the kid. Once found though it should be applied fairly and consistently, and time should be taken to inform the child of what actions incur what consequences. The consequences may be variable depending on the undesired behavior.

What it should not be is appeasement. Appeasement for bad behavior is not punishment, it's capitulation. It sets a bad precedent that a child will notice and take advantage of with surprising regularity. Appeasement should only happen for good behavior as a reward.

Failing to do anything is also a poor method. Apathy is only slightly less ineffective than appeasement for bad behavior.

Teach them that there is acceptable and unacceptable behavior and that acceptable behavior is rewarded and unacceptable behavior is punished. Then be consistent about enforcing both of those results.

But as I said: kid + punishment + consistency = discipline. Which also applies to kid + reward + consistency.

No kid responds well to corporal punishment.  THAT'S lazy parenting.  "I'll hit my kid, that'll show them who's boss!"  And then you teach the kid that it's okay to hit and bully others to get their way.  Consistency and rewards important, and if you consistently say "No, we have to finish the grocery shopping before we leave", you teach the kid that crying and throwing a temper tantrum doesn't get them out of doing something they don't want to do.  Rewarding them afterwards is also very important, because then they learn that if they put up with an activity they don't want, they get to do something they d ...


No, I don't.  Beating or spanking a kid, even for a reason, is still lazy parenting which is why it's frowned upon.  If you can't hit an adult without getting charged with assault and battery, you shouldn't be able to hit a kid.  Under any circumstances.  I grew up in an abusive home, and I'll be damned if I ever lay a finger on my children for any reason whatsoever.  There's always a better way.
 
2013-09-17 03:17:43 PM

Joe USer: Agent Smiths Laugh: If you're referring to my comments understand that I consider corporal punishment merely one of the tools in the toolbox, not the only tool. My primary point was that consistency is key.

Consistency is key, but corporal punishment is pretty much considered ineffective for long term discipline. At 5, you remember getting hit, not why you got hit.


Not if your parent doesn't take the time to explain it to you, no. Hence my emphasis on communication.

forever_blowing_bubbles: Agent Smiths Laugh: [farktardery] What's your next trick?

It involves a time machine and a condom. If all goes well, you won't be around to see it!


Good luck with that. My current time machine involves a plan to eradicate the Nazis regime (and Stalin if I'm on a roll). Hopefully you'll give me enough lead time to complete that initiative before enacting your plan.

Careful though, we might establish a paradox if we do this wrong.
 
2013-09-17 03:40:45 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: Joe USer: Agent Smiths Laugh: If you're referring to my comments understand that I consider corporal punishment merely one of the tools in the toolbox, not the only tool. My primary point was that consistency is key.

Consistency is key, but corporal punishment is pretty much considered ineffective for long term discipline. At 5, you remember getting hit, not why you got hit.

Not if your parent doesn't take the time to explain it to you, no. Hence my emphasis on communication.

forever_blowing_bubbles: Agent Smiths Laugh: [farktardery] What's your next trick?

It involves a time machine and a condom. If all goes well, you won't be around to see it!

Good luck with that. My current time machine involves a plan to eradicate the Nazis regime (and Stalin if I'm on a roll). Hopefully you'll give me enough lead time to complete that initiative before enacting your plan.

Careful though, we might establish a paradox if we do this wrong.


Dammit, every noob with a time machine goes back and tries to kill Hitler. Please read IATT Bulletin 1147 regarding the killing of Hitler!!!
http://www.tor.com/stories/2011/08/wikihistory
- SilverFox316
 
2013-09-17 03:40:51 PM

bborchar: No, I don't. Beating or spanking a kid, even for a reason, is still lazy parenting which is why it's frowned upon. If you can't hit an adult without getting charged with assault and battery, you shouldn't be able to hit a kid. Under any circumstances. I grew up in an abusive home, and I'll be damned if I ever lay a finger on my children for any reason whatsoever. There's always a better way.


First let me say I'm sorry you did, nobody should have to endure that. However, I think you may be projecting your pain onto anything that even remotely resembles your negative experience. But that is understandable, and very human, and I can't fairly condemn you for it if true.

As for your other points. We as adults accept the risk of corporal response in our daily lives. Yes, you can't assault another person without risk of being arrested. You also can't do it without taking a real chance of having the police use physical force on you in return. You also can't attack someone without accepting the risk that you may be the one who gets hurt. So we, as adults accept that there are certain misdeeds that may very well carry a threat of physical harm, but you're saying we can't teach our kids that?

You may not like it, but pain instructs, and the threat of pain is a strong incentive. Why exactly do you think you have pain receptors in your body? Evolution certainly isn't holding back.

Just because you say it's lazy parenting doesn't make it so. It's merely your opinion. I think that reasonable, controlled, rational, compassionate use of corporal punishment can be responsible parenting. We will likely continue to disagree on that point.

But that said, I'm sorry you were abused. That sucks. I don't know anything about your circumstances, or how it was perpetrated, and its a shame if your parent(s) didn't know how to punish responsibly.
 
2013-09-17 03:46:56 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: Allen. The end.: That's also quite the lack of understanding a social contract. "Ain't my fault, ain't my problem!" Nice to know you live in a farking bubble. So please stay in it, otherwise you'll meet people in a society, and when none of them are your 'fault' or 'problem', they might begin to think that it's you, in fact, that can't be trusted to behave.

My comment was directed specifically at forever_blowing_bubbles. Are you telling me that I'm somehow responsible for him/her now?


You are responsible for what you write online. Don't behave badly in public and expect to be treated like the adults. Funny how that comes around, isn't it?
 
2013-09-17 03:51:17 PM
I have to agree with the side that thinks corporal punishment is never appropriate and is counter-productive.

You can talk and explain it to your kid all you want, but at the end of the day, the kid is going to come away having learned that:

1) Authority is based not on experience, age, or respect, but ultimately on the ability to inflict violence and pain;
2) The threat of violence and pain is an effective way of controlling those smaller and weaker than you and getting them to do what you want;
3) Ultimately it undermines your own credibility when you try to teach your kids that its not appropriate to hit or hurt other people.  It's sending mixed messages.
 
2013-09-17 03:59:12 PM

Tat'dGreaser: I don't understand people who hate children so much. You do know you were that screaming a-hole at one point in your life right?


Problem is that some of them still are screaming a-holes.
 
2013-09-17 03:59:59 PM
My other parenting CSS.

My parents pulled the plug on the cable TV during the summer. At the end of one summer (I was 13 I think) I made the mistake of smarting off to my father, whose response was to leave the TV off.

They turned the cable back on this year. I'm thirty.

/of neutral opinion on spanking, thinks grounding to chores is just as effective
//spanking is over in thirty seconds. Two months of doing dishes? Oh ugh.
 
2013-09-17 04:02:06 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: bborchar: No, I don't. Beating or spanking a kid, even for a reason, is still lazy parenting which is why it's frowned upon. If you can't hit an adult without getting charged with assault and battery, you shouldn't be able to hit a kid. Under any circumstances. I grew up in an abusive home, and I'll be damned if I ever lay a finger on my children for any reason whatsoever. There's always a better way.

First let me say I'm sorry you did, nobody should have to endure that. However, I think you may be projecting your pain onto anything that even remotely resembles your negative experience. But that is understandable, and very human, and I can't fairly condemn you for it if true.

As for your other points. We as adults accept the risk of corporal response in our daily lives. Yes, you can't assault another person without risk of being arrested. You also can't do it without taking a real chance of having the police use physical force on you in return. You also can't attack someone without accepting the risk that you may be the one who gets hurt. So we, as adults accept that there are certain misdeeds that may very well carry a threat of physical harm, but you're saying we can't teach our kids that?

You may not like it, but pain instructs, and the threat of pain is a strong incentive. Why exactly do you think you have pain receptors in your body? Evolution certainly isn't holding back.

Just because you say it's lazy parenting doesn't make it so. It's merely your opinion. I think that reasonable, controlled, rational, compassionate use of corporal punishment can be responsible parenting. We will likely continue to disagree on that point.

But that said, I'm sorry you were abused. That sucks. I don't know anything about your circumstances, or how it was perpetrated, and its a shame if your parent(s) didn't know how to punish responsibly.


What's an acceptable way to hit a kid?  When is there no alternative to hitting the kid?  What does it really teach them?  Why not teach them to respect you instead of fear you?
 
2013-09-17 04:26:23 PM

JuniorII: ciberido: earthwirm: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

Actually, no you don't. Deal with it.

Actually, yes, she does.  Deal with it.

She can get the fark off the bus......


That is true, in some cases, and in the interest of being a reasonable person willing to compromise, there are times when maybe she should be the one to inconvenience herself, rather than expect the kid's parents to change or do things differently.

I don't see it as the kind of thing where one side is always clearly in the wrong,  There are badly-behaved kids, there are parents who don't do what they should to prevent/control their kids poor behavior, and there are people who are unreasonably touchy/demanding in the expectations of how everyone around them should behave.
 
2013-09-17 04:26:34 PM

earthwirm: GoldSpider: Something tells me that many of these parents who want you to "just deal with" their shrieking crotchfruit have a slightly different opinion on second-hand smoke.

Yes, because children cause cancer.


Hearing damage is a real (and common) thing. Look it up. If you have the right to negatively affect my health then why shouldn't I light up and do the same to you?
 
2013-09-17 04:30:54 PM
Kid causing a commotion? The only rational adult response is to cause a counter-commotion about the commotion.

Good thinking, rational, adult-like person; way to take the higher ground and show them what's up!
 
2013-09-17 04:31:08 PM

AngryJailhouseFistfark: supayoda: Kristoph57: This is gonna be good when the "my kids are angels" crowd shows up.

Those are usually the ones with the worst behaved kids, in my experience, because you can't correct a problem if you are oblivious to it. I have a niece who is a prime example. She's generally a spoiled bully. Gets what she wants and orders other kids around. Her mom will look you in the eye dead serious and tell you that she's never had a problem with her. That little terror is eight years old and STILL throws tantrums whenever she doesn't get what she wants-- and Mom gives in to them.

They rationalize any bad behaviors as "well of course she does that, she's got X syndrome." Or, "you must have put factory processed wheat in your cookies, she never does that with my organic, cruelty-free, Peruvian K'khabba-grain cookies."


Now I want some organic, cruelty-free, Peruvian K'khabba-grain cookies, damn you.

I bet they taste better than Yo Gabba Gabba cookies.
 
2013-09-17 04:35:41 PM

bborchar: "I'll hit my kid, that'll show them who's boss!" And then you teach the kid that it's okay to hit and bully others to get their way.


Completely different circumstances.

Does the police arresting people 'teach that it's okay to chain up and kidnap others'??
Does the IRS demanding tax money from you 'teach that it's okay to steal from others'??

Of course not- those are completely different situations.

Just like a parent (who, mind you, is legally responsible for raising the child) occasionally disciplining their child physically is completely different than "it's okay to hit and bully others".
 
2013-09-17 04:39:15 PM

bborchar: What's an acceptable way to hit a kid?  When is there no alternative to hitting the kid?  What does it really teach them?  Why not teach them to respect you instead of fear you?


My anecdotal life experiences say your anecdotal life experiences are wrong. That probably means you're stoopid.
 
2013-09-17 04:42:14 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: bborchar: Agent Smiths Laugh: bborchar: It's simple: kid + punishment + consistency = discipline.

Oh yes, I forgot, the plural of anecdote is data!

// ...

Okay, now what is the punishment that every parent should use on every child that works every time no matter what age or temperament or gender they are?

Depends on the kid. Some kids respond well to corporal punishment. Some don't. It takes effort on the part of the parent to find what works on the kid. Once found though it should be applied fairly and consistently, and time should be taken to inform the child of what actions incur what consequences. The consequences may be variable depending on the undesired behavior.

What it should not be is appeasement. Appeasement for bad behavior is not punishment, it's capitulation. It sets a bad precedent that a child will notice and take advantage of with surprising regularity. Appeasement should only happen for good behavior as a reward.

Failing to do anything is also a poor method. Apathy is only slightly less ineffective than appeasement for bad behavior.

Teach them that there is acceptable and unacceptable behavior and that acceptable behavior is rewarded and unacceptable behavior is punished. Then be consistent about enforcing both of those results.

But as I said: kid + punishment + consistency = discipline. Which also applies to kid + reward + consistency.

No kid responds well to corporal punishment.  THAT'S lazy parenting.  "I'll hit my kid, that'll show them who's boss!"  And then you teach the kid that it's okay to hit and bully others to get their way.  Consistency and rewards important, and if you consistently say "No, we have to finish the grocery shopping before we leave", you teach the kid that crying and throwing a temper tantrum doesn't get them out of doing something they don't want to do.  Rewarding them afterwards is also very important, because then they learn that if they put up with an activity they don't want, they get to do something they d ...


Not that I entirely agree with all you have said, but I do agree with the idea that all punishment should be done with compassion and purpose.  Like I've said since my first born was a few months old.  If, as a parent, your heart doesn't break on a regular basis, you are doing it wrong.
 
2013-09-17 04:52:54 PM

fredklein: bborchar: "I'll hit my kid, that'll show them who's boss!" And then you teach the kid that it's okay to hit and bully others to get their way.

Completely different circumstances.

Does the police arresting people 'teach that it's okay to chain up and kidnap others'??
Does the IRS demanding tax money from you 'teach that it's okay to steal from others'??

Of course not- those are completely different situations.

Just like a parent (who, mind you, is legally responsible for raising the child) occasionally disciplining their child physically is completely different than "it's okay to hit and bully others".


Police arresting someone ≠ the same as police beating someone.
The IRS demanding your taxes ≠ the same as the government sending thugs to beat you when you don't pay up.

And in both of your examples, there are laws against brutalizing the suspect/tax avoider.  Or are you saying that they SHOULD be able to beat them to make them learn their lesson?
 
2013-09-17 04:53:23 PM
Yes, let's all stop having kids so our species will just end. That way everyone will be happy.
 
2013-09-17 05:00:12 PM

bborchar: fredklein: bborchar: "I'll hit my kid, that'll show them who's boss!" And then you teach the kid that it's okay to hit and bully others to get their way.

Completely different circumstances.

Does the police arresting people 'teach that it's okay to chain up and kidnap others'??
Does the IRS demanding tax money from you 'teach that it's okay to steal from others'??

Of course not- those are completely different situations.

Just like a parent (who, mind you, is legally responsible for raising the child) occasionally disciplining their child physically is completely different than "it's okay to hit and bully others".

Police arresting someone ≠ the same as police beating someone.
The IRS demanding your taxes ≠ the same as the government sending thugs to beat you when you don't pay up.

And in both of your examples, there are laws against brutalizing the suspect/tax avoider.  Or are you saying that they SHOULD be able to beat them to make them learn their lesson?


In any case, I never said you can't punish your children at all...I said that there are ways other than hitting them.  Grounding them?  Sure.  Time-outs?  Go ahead.  Taking away possessions?  Okay.  Making them do something they don't want to do?  Of course.  I've done all of those at one time or another, and they worked.  But I've yet to find a good reason for anyone should raise their hand to their child.
 
2013-09-17 05:05:12 PM

Bslim: Keep your filthy crotchfruit at home.


No.

GoldSpider: Something tells me that many of these parents who want you to "just deal with" their shrieking crotchfruit have a slightly different opinion on second-hand smoke.


No, I pretty much feel like you should have to just deal with my second hand smoke too.
 
2013-09-17 05:09:20 PM

Falstaff: I can tell you don't shop at Wal-Mart on weekends...


I can't shop at Wal-mart without leaving the country. We don't let them in here.
 
2013-09-17 05:15:08 PM

bborchar: bborchar: fredklein: bborchar: "I'll hit my kid, that'll show them who's boss!" And then you teach the kid that it's okay to hit and bully others to get their way.

Completely different circumstances.

Does the police arresting people 'teach that it's okay to chain up and kidnap others'??
Does the IRS demanding tax money from you 'teach that it's okay to steal from others'??

Of course not- those are completely different situations.

Just like a parent (who, mind you, is legally responsible for raising the child) occasionally disciplining their child physically is completely different than "it's okay to hit and bully others".

Police arresting someone ≠ the same as police beating someone.
The IRS demanding your taxes ≠ the same as the government sending thugs to beat you when you don't pay up.

And in both of your examples, there are laws against brutalizing the suspect/tax avoider.  Or are you saying that they SHOULD be able to beat them to make them learn their lesson?

In any case, I never said you can't punish your children at all...I said that there are ways other than hitting them.  Grounding them?  Sure.  Time-outs?  Go ahead.  Taking away possessions?  Okay.  Making them do something they don't want to do?  Of course.  I've done all of those at one time or another, and they worked.  But I've yet to find a good reason for anyone should raise their hand to their child.


All of those are better analogies of what the police and the government do, than corporal punishment is.

You put your child in time-out, ground them, take away their toys - that is a loss of freedom and possessions.  Same as when the police detain you and the courts fine or imprison you.  Both cases are instances of the exercise of authority, not of violence.  In neither case is it appropriate for the authority to beat or physically assault the person in their custody.

Obviously the analogy is not perfect, because the police may use deadly force when necessary, in particular when a suspect is an imminent danger to them or others.  This fact is irrelevant to parenting, because it is unlikely that a parent will ever need to use violence to defend themselves from their preschooler.
 
2013-09-17 05:30:21 PM

bborchar: fredklein: bborchar: "I'll hit my kid, that'll show them who's boss!" And then you teach the kid that it's okay to hit and bully others to get their way.

Completely different circumstances.

Does the police arresting people 'teach that it's okay to chain up and kidnap others'??
Does the IRS demanding tax money from you 'teach that it's okay to steal from others'??

Of course not- those are completely different situations.

Just like a parent (who, mind you, is legally responsible for raising the child) occasionally disciplining their child physically is completely different than "it's okay to hit and bully others".

Police arresting someone ≠ the same as police beating someone.
The IRS demanding your taxes ≠ the same as the government sending thugs to beat you when you don't pay up.

And in both of your examples, there are laws against brutalizing the suspect/tax avoider.  Or are you saying that they SHOULD be able to beat them to make them learn their lesson?


You are changing what I wrote.

If spanking a child 'teaches then it's okay to hit others', then you must agree that cops handcuffing someone and taking them to the station must 'teach that it's okay to chain up and kidnap people'.

And, yes, actually- if you don't pay, for example, property taxes, then your property can be taken from you. Eventually, they'll send cops to kick you out. And if you resist those cops, you will be 'brutalized' (Well... arrested. But any nutter that has such a huge issue with paying taxes that they take it that far would no doubt classify it as brutality.)
 
2013-09-17 05:38:58 PM
umad:
Hearing damage is a real (and common) thing. Look it up. If you have the right to negatively affect my health then why shouldn't I light up and do the same to you?

The amazing amounts of SHEER BLINDING STUPIDITY in that statement just overwhelm the senses and have negatively affected my health.
 
2013-09-17 05:40:02 PM

bborchar: What's an acceptable way to hit a kid?  When is there no alternative to hitting the kid?  What does it really teach them?  Why not teach them to respect you instead of fear you?


It teaches them that battery is a crime. Under certain circumstances.
 
2013-09-17 05:42:57 PM

mike_d85: New Slang: Why punish the parent?  Just slap the kid up the back of the head or trip them when the parent is not looking

FINALLY, some rational thinking in this thread.

CSB: Ye Olde Airplane situation
So I'm on a flight (fairly short connecting one) and I have the 7 year old behind me.  Not A 7-year-old, THE 7-year-old.  The one that had his DVD player run out of batteries before we left the tarmac and started kicking the back of my seat nonstop.  Non. Stop.

So I ask the kid to stop (mostly out of politeness), then ask mom to have him stop.  "Oh, if his DVD is out of batteries there's no controlling him.  Be glad it's the only thing he's doing".  So, I ignore it for the first 30 minutes or so.  Mom has started reading and stopped talking at all.

     kid: Mom, this is BORING.  I don't have anything to do.  Mom.  MOM!
     me: hey kid, you wanna see if your double jointed?
     kid: SURE!
[snip - I had him check for hitch hikers thumb and bend his arm in impossible ways]
     me: Your'e not that flexible, I bet you cant even touch your knees to your chin.
     kid: I can so! [curls into fetal position]

I then reclined the seat and trapped him in that position.  I then put my ipod on with the volume up.  Mom tried to get the flight attendant to let me go, but she insisted that I was free to recline if I wanted to.  I only got to screw that kid over for about 15 minutes, but MAN it was worth all the biatching and moaning till the end of the flight just to punish him.


Hey, look at this thing that didn't happen.
 
2013-09-17 05:47:26 PM

fredklein: bborchar: fredklein: bborchar: "I'll hit my kid, that'll show them who's boss!" And then you teach the kid that it's okay to hit and bully others to get their way.

Completely different circumstances.

Does the police arresting people 'teach that it's okay to chain up and kidnap others'??
Does the IRS demanding tax money from you 'teach that it's okay to steal from others'??

Of course not- those are completely different situations.

Just like a parent (who, mind you, is legally responsible for raising the child) occasionally disciplining their child physically is completely different than "it's okay to hit and bully others".

Police arresting someone ≠ the same as police beating someone.
The IRS demanding your taxes ≠ the same as the government sending thugs to beat you when you don't pay up.

And in both of your examples, there are laws against brutalizing the suspect/tax avoider.  Or are you saying that they SHOULD be able to beat them to make them learn their lesson?

You are changing what I wrote.

If spanking a child 'teaches then it's okay to hit others', then you must agree that cops handcuffing someone and taking them to the station must 'teach that it's okay to chain up and kidnap people'.

And, yes, actually- if you don't pay, for example, property taxes, then your property can be taken from you. Eventually, they'll send cops to kick you out. And if you resist those cops, you will be 'brutalized' (Well... arrested. But any nutter that has such a huge issue with paying taxes that they take it that far would no doubt classify it as brutality.)


Even though your analogy is terrible and makes no sense, I'll answer your original question:

If your child hits another child, and you punish them by spanking them, how is that teaching them that hitting is wrong?  They are learning from you that the way to deal with a bad situation is through violence.  That's why children who are abused are often also abusive as grown ups.  They learn nothing about how to deal with their anger in a more constructive way.  The bad behavior is a symptom, not the problem.  Why did the child hit the other child?  Usually it's because they are upset about something and they don't know how to constructively convey that to the other child.  So instead of spanking them, a better way to deal with the situation is to find out why the child was angry in the first place and correct the problem.
 
2013-09-17 05:55:36 PM

bborchar: If your child hits another child, and you punish them by spanking them, how is that teaching them that hitting is wrong?  They are learning from you that the way to deal with a bad situation is through violence


It's especially ironic given all the highly publicized new laws against bullying and all the PSAs and feature films about bullying.
 
2013-09-17 05:55:45 PM

bborchar: In any case, I never said you can't punish your children at all...I said that there are ways other than hitting them. Grounding them? Sure. Time-outs? Go ahead. Taking away possessions? Okay. Making them do something they don't want to do? Of course. I've done all of those at one time or another, and they worked. But I've yet to find a good reason for anyone should raise their hand to their child.


And what do you suggest when the child doesn't stay grounded? (Ground them again? Double-secret probation??) Or doesn't stay in time-out?? Or refuses to do what you're trying to make them so? (oh, BTW- good job teaching them that it's okay to force others to do things they don't want to do!! They won't grow up to be a rapist or anything, I'm sure.)

Or, and here's a big one- what if they are too young to understand your reasoned explanations as to why you're making them stand in the corner? A 3-year old who tries to run away from you on the sidewalk isn't gonna 'get' why it's bad if you wait a few hours until you get home and then make them stand in the corner. But that 3-year old understands a swat to the backside: Run away= get spanked.

You run away, you get spanked. You then learn not to run away. You touch a hot stove, you feel pain. You then learn to not touch hot stoves.

How well do you think a kid would learn not to touch a hot stove, if they felt no immediate pain, but only got a lecture (and grounded) sometime next week?


Now, don't get me wrong- I certainly am not suggesting beating the kid black-and-blue because they made a simple mistake, or looked at me funny. But for serious issues, issues in which you have already tried other methods (ie: Ask them to stop. Tell them to stop. Threaten them with groundings, time out, etc....), or issues where, due to immediate danger, a direct relationship between disobedience and punishment needs to be made (ie: running into traffic- if you try to wait until you get home to put them in time-out, they'll keep running into traffic, and possibly get hurt/killed. OTOH, if you spank them right then and there, they won't try running into the street anymore. Problem solved.), then physical punishment is needed and justified.
 
2013-09-17 06:09:34 PM

bborchar: If your child hits another child, and you punish them by spanking them, how is that teaching them that hitting is wrong?
If I tie up someone and kidnap them, and then the cops show up and handcuff me and drag me to jail, how is that teaching me that restraining people and transporting them against their will is wrong?

Since some people seem to have a problem understanding that analogy, let me make it really clear:

I restrained someone ('tied them up'), and transported them to somewhere against their will ('kidnapped them'). Then the cops come, and restrain me ('handcuff me'), and transport me somewhere against my will ('take me to jail'). The cops are doing to me/i> the same thing I did to someone else!! Gee, how ever am I to learn it is wrong, when they do the same thing to me!!?!?!!11!


That's why children who are abused are often also abusive as grown ups

Now you've changed the topic and are talking about "abuse". I'm not talking about "abuse". I'm talking about an occasional, deserved, spanking. Perhaps you consider that "abuse". I'm sure that somewhere, someone considered what you do (taking away the kids toys) to be be "abusive", too. (perhaps 'it teaches kids it's okay to steal from others'.)

So instead of spanking them, a better way to deal with the situation is to find out why the child was angry in the first place and correct the problem.

Tell me when you invent a mind-reading helmet that'll tell me what a 3-year old is thinking.

Oh, and you're assuming the kid is 'angry' about something (that can be fixed), and not just plain disobedient.

 
2013-09-17 06:09:43 PM

fredklein: bborchar: In any case, I never said you can't punish your children at all...I said that there are ways other than hitting them. Grounding them? Sure. Time-outs? Go ahead. Taking away possessions? Okay. Making them do something they don't want to do? Of course. I've done all of those at one time or another, and they worked. But I've yet to find a good reason for anyone should raise their hand to their child.

And what do you suggest when the child doesn't stay grounded? (Ground them again? Double-secret probation??) Or doesn't stay in time-out?? Or refuses to do what you're trying to make them so? (oh, BTW- good job teaching them that it's okay to force others to do things they don't want to do!! They won't grow up to be a rapist or anything, I'm sure.)

Or, and here's a big one- what if they are too young to understand your reasoned explanations as to why you're making them stand in the corner? A 3-year old who tries to run away from you on the sidewalk isn't gonna 'get' why it's bad if you wait a few hours until you get home and then make them stand in the corner. But that 3-year old understands a swat to the backside: Run away= get spanked.

You run away, you get spanked. You then learn not to run away. You touch a hot stove, you feel pain. You then learn to not touch hot stoves.

How well do you think a kid would learn not to touch a hot stove, if they felt no immediate pain, but only got a lecture (and grounded) sometime next week?


Now, don't get me wrong- I certainly am not suggesting beating the kid black-and-blue because they made a simple mistake, or looked at me funny. But for serious issues, issues in which you have already tried other methods (ie: Ask them to stop. Tell them to stop. Threaten them with groundings, time out, etc....), or issues where, due to immediate danger, a direct relationship between disobedience and punishment needs to be made (ie: running into traffic- if you try to wait until you get home to put them in time-out, the ...



Hmm...let's see.  When I punish my kid and they don't respond to the punishment, I ENFORCE the punishment.  My kid won't stay in time-out?  I put him right back in it.  And I keep doing that until he gets the point.  I don't give up on time-out and spank him.  And guess what?  Both of my kids, where ever we are, know what time-out means.  I put the effort into it and my kids respond.

And if my 2 year old darts out into a street, it was my damn fault for letting him go, not his.  And if I KNOW he has the tendency to do it, I make sure he doesn't have the opportunity.
 
2013-09-17 06:16:38 PM

fredklein: bborchar: So instead of spanking them, a better way to deal with the situation is to find out why the child was angry in the first place and correct the problem.

Tell me when you invent a mind-reading helmet that'll tell me what a 3-year old is thinking.

Oh, and you're assuming the kid is 'angry' about something (that can be fixed), and not just plain disobedient.


I don't have to read minds...I talk to them on their level.  Have you ever asked a 3-year old why they are mad?  They can usually tell you why.  If they can't, they are probably tired or hungry.  I've never seen a 3-year old lash out for no reason at all.  Do you do things without a reason?  Kids are no different.
 
2013-09-17 06:26:46 PM

Kahabut: GORDON: It isn't about your right to have an express an opinion, it has to do with class.  Children are a basic, fundamental, and generally harmless fact of life.  They always will be.  The only attitudes you change by sharing your anti-child views are in how the rest of the world perceives you, not children.

So keep it up.  The "no kids in restaurants!" crowd is a good, simple way to determine if someone is a classless douche, or not.

Once, a long time ago in a far away place, classy people didn't bring their children to adult restaurants.  They also don't use words like douche on a regular basis.

From this, we can know two things.  1) You aren't classy.  2) You aren't qualified to tell anyone else what classy is.


And when you frequented the fine establishments, did you tie an onion to your belt?
 
2013-09-17 07:03:08 PM

umad: earthwirm: GoldSpider: Something tells me that many of these parents who want you to "just deal with" their shrieking crotchfruit have a slightly different opinion on second-hand smoke.

Yes, because children cause cancer.

Hearing damage is a real (and common) thing. Look it up. If you have the right to negatively affect my health then why shouldn't I light up and do the same to you?


Hearing damage? From the screaming toddler at the table next to yours?

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-09-17 07:15:05 PM

bborchar: When I punish my kid and they don't respond to the punishment, I ENFORCE the punishment. My kid won't stay in time-out? I put him right back in it. And I keep doing that until he gets the point. I don't give up on time-out and spank him. And guess what? Both of my kids, where ever we are, know what time-out means


Yup- it means they can keep walking away, forcing you to pay attention to them, and taking up your time. It's like a game of tag, only you can't quit. They have you trained well.
 
2013-09-17 07:39:42 PM

fredklein: bborchar: When I punish my kid and they don't respond to the punishment, I ENFORCE the punishment. My kid won't stay in time-out? I put him right back in it. And I keep doing that until he gets the point. I don't give up on time-out and spank him. And guess what? Both of my kids, where ever we are, know what time-out means

Yup- it means they can keep walking away, forcing you to pay attention to them, and taking up your time. It's like a game of tag, only you can't quit. They have you trained well.


LOL, oh yes. Because I spent a few extra minute the first few times teaching my children that "when I say something, I mean it", it automatically means that I'M whipped. Especially since both of them learned it by the age of 2 and I've never had to tell them to do something twice since. I could just be like you...treat them like idiots too stupid to understand reason- yet expect them to understand a life and death situation by the time they are 3 so I don't have to be responsible for them, and just whip them whenever I can't control them. Much better parenting strategy.
 
2013-09-17 07:49:04 PM
Remember now, you cannot spell child psychology
without psycho.
 
2013-09-17 08:58:48 PM

bborchar: The My Little Pony Killer: The non-parent is right. If your child is throwing a major tantrum in public, and you keep on like nothing is happening, you are a BAD PARENT. GOOD PARENTS remove the child from the situation. Yes, it's inconvenient for you, the parent, but that's what parenting is. It's inconvenient for you, but worth it.

So take care of your damn kids and you won't have to worry about what you assume to be non-parents talking shiat about you.

I'd rather be thought of as a bad parent than be a judgmental prick who automatically can determine what someone should do in 100% of situations just by looking at them.


In the case of a screaming and/or unruly child in a public place that isn't specifically meant for little children, yes I do know what the parent should do 100% of the time. Make the child stop or remove it until it does. That is the proper thing. The improper thing is to ignore it and subject everyone in the vicinity to your child's misbehavior. I'm not sure how knowing the proper and polite thing for a person living in a society to do makes one a judgmental prick.
 
2013-09-17 09:22:14 PM

forever_blowing_bubbles: There are several thousand douchenozzles out there that thought\still think that Tim Tebow is the second-coming of Johnny Jesus Unitas despite VOLUMES of film and others who say differently.

Also, I don't know SHIAT about music so I couldn't tell the difference between a good musician and a bad one. I am also tone deaf. So I could listen to a band and not know that some singer is off-pitch (unless badly) for an hour before I caught on.


That's nice, but we aren't talking about your deficiencies.

However, YOU can tell the difference between good parents and bad parents

Yes. I stated that quite clearly. Glad you caught on.

in an isolated incident, in public, in mere seconds or minutes?

I don't know, but that's irrelevant since I made no