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(Some Dad)   Thoughtful, well written message about how non-parents don't know anything about parenting and should keep their filthy mouths shut   (themattwalshblog.com) divider line 537
    More: Amusing, Lacunar amnesia  
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12825 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Sep 2013 at 7:02 AM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-17 06:09:43 PM

fredklein: bborchar: In any case, I never said you can't punish your children at all...I said that there are ways other than hitting them. Grounding them? Sure. Time-outs? Go ahead. Taking away possessions? Okay. Making them do something they don't want to do? Of course. I've done all of those at one time or another, and they worked. But I've yet to find a good reason for anyone should raise their hand to their child.

And what do you suggest when the child doesn't stay grounded? (Ground them again? Double-secret probation??) Or doesn't stay in time-out?? Or refuses to do what you're trying to make them so? (oh, BTW- good job teaching them that it's okay to force others to do things they don't want to do!! They won't grow up to be a rapist or anything, I'm sure.)

Or, and here's a big one- what if they are too young to understand your reasoned explanations as to why you're making them stand in the corner? A 3-year old who tries to run away from you on the sidewalk isn't gonna 'get' why it's bad if you wait a few hours until you get home and then make them stand in the corner. But that 3-year old understands a swat to the backside: Run away= get spanked.

You run away, you get spanked. You then learn not to run away. You touch a hot stove, you feel pain. You then learn to not touch hot stoves.

How well do you think a kid would learn not to touch a hot stove, if they felt no immediate pain, but only got a lecture (and grounded) sometime next week?


Now, don't get me wrong- I certainly am not suggesting beating the kid black-and-blue because they made a simple mistake, or looked at me funny. But for serious issues, issues in which you have already tried other methods (ie: Ask them to stop. Tell them to stop. Threaten them with groundings, time out, etc....), or issues where, due to immediate danger, a direct relationship between disobedience and punishment needs to be made (ie: running into traffic- if you try to wait until you get home to put them in time-out, the ...



Hmm...let's see.  When I punish my kid and they don't respond to the punishment, I ENFORCE the punishment.  My kid won't stay in time-out?  I put him right back in it.  And I keep doing that until he gets the point.  I don't give up on time-out and spank him.  And guess what?  Both of my kids, where ever we are, know what time-out means.  I put the effort into it and my kids respond.

And if my 2 year old darts out into a street, it was my damn fault for letting him go, not his.  And if I KNOW he has the tendency to do it, I make sure he doesn't have the opportunity.
 
2013-09-17 06:16:38 PM

fredklein: bborchar: So instead of spanking them, a better way to deal with the situation is to find out why the child was angry in the first place and correct the problem.

Tell me when you invent a mind-reading helmet that'll tell me what a 3-year old is thinking.

Oh, and you're assuming the kid is 'angry' about something (that can be fixed), and not just plain disobedient.


I don't have to read minds...I talk to them on their level.  Have you ever asked a 3-year old why they are mad?  They can usually tell you why.  If they can't, they are probably tired or hungry.  I've never seen a 3-year old lash out for no reason at all.  Do you do things without a reason?  Kids are no different.
 
2013-09-17 06:26:46 PM

Kahabut: GORDON: It isn't about your right to have an express an opinion, it has to do with class.  Children are a basic, fundamental, and generally harmless fact of life.  They always will be.  The only attitudes you change by sharing your anti-child views are in how the rest of the world perceives you, not children.

So keep it up.  The "no kids in restaurants!" crowd is a good, simple way to determine if someone is a classless douche, or not.

Once, a long time ago in a far away place, classy people didn't bring their children to adult restaurants.  They also don't use words like douche on a regular basis.

From this, we can know two things.  1) You aren't classy.  2) You aren't qualified to tell anyone else what classy is.


And when you frequented the fine establishments, did you tie an onion to your belt?
 
2013-09-17 07:03:08 PM

umad: earthwirm: GoldSpider: Something tells me that many of these parents who want you to "just deal with" their shrieking crotchfruit have a slightly different opinion on second-hand smoke.

Yes, because children cause cancer.

Hearing damage is a real (and common) thing. Look it up. If you have the right to negatively affect my health then why shouldn't I light up and do the same to you?


Hearing damage? From the screaming toddler at the table next to yours?

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-09-17 07:15:05 PM

bborchar: When I punish my kid and they don't respond to the punishment, I ENFORCE the punishment. My kid won't stay in time-out? I put him right back in it. And I keep doing that until he gets the point. I don't give up on time-out and spank him. And guess what? Both of my kids, where ever we are, know what time-out means


Yup- it means they can keep walking away, forcing you to pay attention to them, and taking up your time. It's like a game of tag, only you can't quit. They have you trained well.
 
2013-09-17 07:39:42 PM

fredklein: bborchar: When I punish my kid and they don't respond to the punishment, I ENFORCE the punishment. My kid won't stay in time-out? I put him right back in it. And I keep doing that until he gets the point. I don't give up on time-out and spank him. And guess what? Both of my kids, where ever we are, know what time-out means

Yup- it means they can keep walking away, forcing you to pay attention to them, and taking up your time. It's like a game of tag, only you can't quit. They have you trained well.


LOL, oh yes. Because I spent a few extra minute the first few times teaching my children that "when I say something, I mean it", it automatically means that I'M whipped. Especially since both of them learned it by the age of 2 and I've never had to tell them to do something twice since. I could just be like you...treat them like idiots too stupid to understand reason- yet expect them to understand a life and death situation by the time they are 3 so I don't have to be responsible for them, and just whip them whenever I can't control them. Much better parenting strategy.
 
2013-09-17 07:49:04 PM
Remember now, you cannot spell child psychology
without psycho.
 
2013-09-17 08:58:48 PM

bborchar: The My Little Pony Killer: The non-parent is right. If your child is throwing a major tantrum in public, and you keep on like nothing is happening, you are a BAD PARENT. GOOD PARENTS remove the child from the situation. Yes, it's inconvenient for you, the parent, but that's what parenting is. It's inconvenient for you, but worth it.

So take care of your damn kids and you won't have to worry about what you assume to be non-parents talking shiat about you.

I'd rather be thought of as a bad parent than be a judgmental prick who automatically can determine what someone should do in 100% of situations just by looking at them.


In the case of a screaming and/or unruly child in a public place that isn't specifically meant for little children, yes I do know what the parent should do 100% of the time. Make the child stop or remove it until it does. That is the proper thing. The improper thing is to ignore it and subject everyone in the vicinity to your child's misbehavior. I'm not sure how knowing the proper and polite thing for a person living in a society to do makes one a judgmental prick.
 
2013-09-17 09:22:14 PM

forever_blowing_bubbles: There are several thousand douchenozzles out there that thought\still think that Tim Tebow is the second-coming of Johnny Jesus Unitas despite VOLUMES of film and others who say differently.

Also, I don't know SHIAT about music so I couldn't tell the difference between a good musician and a bad one. I am also tone deaf. So I could listen to a band and not know that some singer is off-pitch (unless badly) for an hour before I caught on.


That's nice, but we aren't talking about your deficiencies.

However, YOU can tell the difference between good parents and bad parents

Yes. I stated that quite clearly. Glad you caught on.

in an isolated incident, in public, in mere seconds or minutes?

I don't know, but that's irrelevant since I made no such claim.

Is reading comprehension even taught any more?
 
2013-09-17 09:24:21 PM

bborchar: I could just be like you...treat them like idiots too stupid to understand reason


/ftfy
 
2013-09-17 09:26:49 PM

Thrag: In the case of a screaming and/or unruly child in a public place that isn't specifically meant for little children, yes I do know what the parent should do 100% of the time.


No, you don't.
 
2013-09-17 09:34:55 PM

bborchar: LOL, oh yes. Because I spent a few extra minute

A "few" extra minutes? Hahahahaha... oh, wait, you're serious. Let me laugh harder!

I could just be like you...treat them like idiots too stupid to understand reason

I seriously doubt your two-year-olds understand (or understood) "reason". If they did, then you wouldn't need to punish them at all- simply explain the logic that the rules are for their own good, and they'd gladly obey.

yet expect them to understand a life and death situation by the time they are 3

1) Where's this coming from? I specifically don't think they can understand, which is why explanations don't work- only immediate feedback (run into the street, get spanked).
2) You say your two-year-olds understood reason, so why couldn't a three-year old understand life and death??

just whip them whenever I can't control them. Much better parenting strategy.

Ah, you're one of those- people who can't seem to grasp the difference between a deserved spanking and 'whipping them whenever'.

 
2013-09-17 09:42:45 PM

Joe USer: Thrag: In the case of a screaming and/or unruly child in a public place that isn't specifically meant for little children, yes I do know what the parent should do 100% of the time.

No, you don't.


So, he "doesn't know", but somehow you know what he is thinking?

Uh huh. So thick, you could cut it with a knife.
 
2013-09-17 10:11:23 PM

fredklein: bborchar: LOL, oh yes. Because I spent a few extra minute

A "few" extra minutes? Hahahahaha... oh, wait, you're serious. Let me laugh harder!

I could just be like you...treat them like idiots too stupid to understand reason

I seriously doubt your two-year-olds understand (or understood) "reason". If they did, then you wouldn't need to punish them at all- simply explain the logic that the rules are for their own good, and they'd gladly obey.

yet expect them to understand a life and death situation by the time they are 3

1) Where's this coming from? I specifically don't think they can understand, which is why explanations don't work- only immediate feedback (run into the street, get spanked).
2) You say your two-year-olds understood reason, so why couldn't a three-year old understand life and death??

just whip them whenever I can't control them. Much better parenting strategy.

Ah, you're one of those- people who can't seem to grasp the difference between a deserved spanking and 'whipping them whenever'.


Really hope you don't have kids, because a dog would deserve better.

Or more likely, you're just a troll who can't figure out how to properly quote something. But since I'm pretty patient teaching things to 2 and 3 year olds, I can help- don't italicize YOUR answer, only the quote.
 
2013-09-17 10:44:55 PM

bborchar: Really hope you don't have kids, because a dog would deserve better.


Yeah- you seem like the type to put Fido in 'time-out' for shiatting on the rug.

Or more likely, you're just a troll who can't figure out how to properly quote something. But since I'm pretty patient teaching things to 2 and 3 year olds, I can help- don't italicize YOUR answer, only the quote.

Fark seems to keep eating my /i tags.  And if that's the condescending way you speak to other adults, I can just imagine how you actually speak to your kids.
 
2013-09-17 11:16:05 PM

Joe USer: Thrag: In the case of a screaming and/or unruly child in a public place that isn't specifically meant for little children, yes I do know what the parent should do 100% of the time.

No, you don't.


Okay, what is the proper thing to do when a child is screaming and/or unruly in a public place not meant for children? Do you honestly do not believe that if you are in a movie theater or a nice restaurant and your child starts to scream, throw things, run around annoying people, etc. that you should not make them stop or remove them? Do you believe that you carry no responsibility as a parent to try to make sure your children aren't annoying the fark out of everyone around them when you are out in public? I do really want you to explain this to me.
 
2013-09-18 12:03:06 AM
This thread reminds me of the SNL episode with Alec Baldwin where he is the child psychologist.

"Elaine... I know what you're going to say, and you're right: This date is going really, really well. One of the best dates either one of us has been on in years. But there's one more thing, Elaine. If you acknowledge the terrine of tapioca above your head... you give her the power.  "
 
2013-09-18 12:04:18 AM

fredklein: bborchar: Really hope you don't have kids, because a dog would deserve better.

Yeah- you seem like the type to put Fido in 'time-out' for shiatting on the rug.


Hitting a dog for something it can't control is about as stupid as hitting a kid for the same reason.
 
2013-09-18 12:25:00 AM

Thrag: Okay, what is the proper thing to do when a child is screaming and/or unruly in a public place not meant for children?


Well THAT'S an easy question answer. Link.
 
2013-09-18 12:37:01 AM
i have a 2 year old and a 4 year old. they are generally well behaved , but i have had to apologize to those around me at times if they act up.

i hate when i need to discipline them in public or quasi public (by speaking firmly to them or threatening to spank them if they do something dqngerous) and some know it all passerby starts lecturing me about how i'm too hard on them.
 
2013-09-18 12:59:53 AM

Mugato: Actually, it doesn't really bother me unless they do nothing about it or look at you and laugh like, "Isn't my baby adorable? LOVE HIM!". No, he isn't and I don't.

And as someone posted above, it is vaguely annoying when I have to cover for everyone in the office with some kid related thing they have to get to. Obviously if the kid has a doctor's appointment, go, of course. I'm an asshole but I'm not a farking asshole. But every Friday is a half day with these people for their kids going to practice various things. I love my job so I don't care if I have to cover for them but it's the principle. If I asked for an hour off to catch a flight to Vegas I'd be lynched.


See, that's the sort of thing where you should put your foot down. It's reached the point where so many workplaces bend over backwards for parents (especially if most people are parents there), that they end up actively discriminating against the child-free. They act like just because you don't have kids that your plans aren't as important, and that you and SO doesn't count as a family.

CSB:
Back when I was 19, I scored front row tickets to go see Jethro Tull and ELP with my dad when they came to local venue. I put in my request for time off over three months in advance. Come three days before the concert, I was going on about it with a coworker, when my boss overheard and went "Uh, no, you're working that weekend until close, both days." I pointed out that no, I most certainly was not, as I'd requested time off far in advance, and reminded her of it monthly to make sure. In pipes up Lardo, who constantly took kid time off, and she nastily and smugly pointed out SHE just requested time for little snot-o's whatever kid activity (I think it was some sort of band night or something). I got flustered and said that I was going anyway, and I got to hear a dual blast of how kids were important and she'd been there longer (Oh yea, like it's something to brag about that you've been at a dead-end retail food job for 8+ years) and that if I didn't show up I'd lose my job. I even pointed out how two other people on the schedule could work that shift and not go into OT, but they were determined that only *I* could work those shifts.

Being 19 and brash and easily able to find another shiatty job, I just walked away and went to the concert that weekend anyway. Sadly, the concert could've been better (they didn't play many numbers, nor most of their biggest hits), but I was glad I went. I showed up for my next shift around the middle of the next week, and got biatched at, where I just pointed out again that I'd given notice that I wouldn't be free that weekend, end of story. They didn't say anything else but Lardo kept being snotty about it, so I just pulled a no-call, no-show and found another job by the next week.

I'd really love a job where parents didn't get all holidays and all time off over the CF folks. Equality and non-judgement over people's RTO. It's just as important for someone to go to Burning Man as it is to go to little Timmy's karate tournament or little Susie's violin recital.
 
2013-09-18 02:17:21 AM

drewsclues: i used to get annoyed about kids screaming and being loud in public. Then I had a kid. Now I think its endlessly amusing.

Also, there's a world of difference between tantrum throwing and general normal kid noise. 95% percent of the racket is just kid noise. Kids are noisy. Well behaved kids are also loud at times. It's just the way it is.


I didn't like this tendency when I was a child myself. I never understood why all my classmates felt a need to scream on the playground. But then people who grew up around my family say me and my brother were "like creepy mini-adults".

But hey, we can't all be soulless robots. I'm ok with kid noise until it becomes physically painful, and then I'll just leave because I don't like confrontation.
 
2013-09-18 03:11:06 AM
You know what's really annoying as shiat? These annoying farks who bring their kid to the store to begin with. They *know* the damned kid is going to want a toy/candy/whatever. They *know* because every damned time the kid throws a fit when you pretend you're going to shut him down. But they *insist* on bringing the kid *anyways* when they could just leave the bastard at home with his/her father/mother instead.

Yeah, you know, that *other* adult at home sitting on their ass? You could have left that rotten little bastard of yours with *them* and avoided all this, but you have absolutely no care for the rest of the world around you and feel "Hey, *I'm* miserable and at this point, let's make everybody else miserable because fark those people smart enough not to have kids."

We smart people have a right to our pissed-off opinions, because *you* are being an asshole to us just because you're miserable and want to spread your misery, when you could just as easily leave the mess at home.
 
2013-09-18 07:16:16 AM

Onkel Buck: I know well enough to learn from others mistakes


Right? Like so many others I was so fortunate to have slid easily into the role of a parent because I'd seen so many other kids out and about and babysat once or twice. Oh wait, it doesn't work that way.

Much like teenagers think they know everything until they grow up, you don't actually know what you're talking about until you have kids.
 
2013-09-18 07:38:45 AM

Vector R: It's reached the point where so many workplaces bend over backwards for parents (especially if most people are parents there), that they end up actively discriminating against the child-free.



Actually, American workplaces are pretty dreadful when I comes to things like family benefits, flexible scheduling, and maternal and family leave, compared to pretty much any other Western democracy (which all tend to have much more generous family leave and pro-family polices mandated by law).
 
2013-09-18 07:59:22 AM

Terrible Old Man: You know what's really annoying as shiat? These annoying farks who bring their kid to the store to begin with. They *know* the damned kid is going to want a toy/candy/whatever. They *know* because every damned time the kid throws a fit when you pretend you're going to shut him down. But they *insist* on bringing the kid *anyways* when they could just leave the bastard at home with his/her father/mother instead.

Yeah, you know, that *other* adult at home sitting on their ass? You could have left that rotten little bastard of yours with *them* and avoided all this, but you have absolutely no care for the rest of the world around you and feel "Hey, *I'm* miserable and at this point, let's make everybody else miserable because fark those people smart enough not to have kids."

We smart people have a right to our pissed-off opinions, because *you* are being an asshole to us just because you're miserable and want to spread your misery, when you could just as easily leave the mess at home.


Troll.
Or idiot.

If idiot: what other parent at home sitting on their ass? In our family we have no such ass-sitting home-people. The options are to bring the kids to the store or not go to the store. And sorry, even parents need to use the store. Your parents did to. Idiot.

If Troll: STFU. shiatnugget.
 
2013-09-18 12:03:37 PM

Shieldmaiden: Onkel Buck: I know well enough to learn from others mistakes

Right? Like so many others I was so fortunate to have slid easily into the role of a parent because I'd seen so many other kids out and about and babysat once or twice. Oh wait, it doesn't work that way.

Much like teenagers think they know everything until they grow up, you don't actually know what you're talking about until you have kids.


As was mentioned before, by another poster, Youre the only person who likes your children. Im not denying it's a hard job, but you chose it, I'm not going celebrate you for that.
 
2013-09-18 02:45:14 PM

ArcadianRefugee: Joe USer: Thrag: In the case of a screaming and/or unruly child in a public place that isn't specifically meant for little children, yes I do know what the parent should do 100% of the time.

No, you don't.

So, he "doesn't know", but somehow you know what he is thinking?

Uh huh. So thick, you could cut it with a knife.


I know that any statement that contains 'I know xxx 100% of the time' is immediately wrong.
 
2013-09-18 02:51:06 PM

Thrag: Joe USer: Thrag: In the case of a screaming and/or unruly child in a public place that isn't specifically meant for little children, yes I do know what the parent should do 100% of the time.

No, you don't.

Okay, what is the proper thing to do when a child is screaming and/or unruly in a public place not meant for children? Do you honestly do not believe that if you are in a movie theater or a nice restaurant and your child starts to scream, throw things, run around annoying people, etc. that you should not make them stop or remove them? Do you believe that you carry no responsibility as a parent to try to make sure your children aren't annoying the fark out of everyone around them when you are out in public? I do really want you to explain this to me.


I said you don't know 100% of the time, it's a BS 'know it all' statement that you're using to sound smug. Of course you should try to make them stop. If you can remove them from the situation, you should do that as well. There are also some times you can't or shouldn't.
 
2013-09-18 03:25:47 PM

Joe USer: Thrag: Joe USer: Thrag: In the case of a screaming and/or unruly child in a public place that isn't specifically meant for little children, yes I do know what the parent should do 100% of the time.

No, you don't.

Okay, what is the proper thing to do when a child is screaming and/or unruly in a public place not meant for children? Do you honestly do not believe that if you are in a movie theater or a nice restaurant and your child starts to scream, throw things, run around annoying people, etc. that you should not make them stop or remove them? Do you believe that you carry no responsibility as a parent to try to make sure your children aren't annoying the fark out of everyone around them when you are out in public? I do really want you to explain this to me.

I said you don't know 100% of the time, it's a BS 'know it all' statement that you're using to sound smug. Of course you should try to make them stop. If you can remove them from the situation, you should do that as well. There are also some times you can't or shouldn't.


When are those times a parent can't or shouldn't attempt to get their child under control or remove them from the situation? Are you really saying there are time when a parent is completely justified in not even attempting to get their child under control?
 
2013-09-18 03:47:59 PM

Thrag: Joe USer: Thrag: Joe USer: Thrag: In the case of a screaming and/or unruly child in a public place that isn't specifically meant for little children, yes I do know what the parent should do 100% of the time.

No, you don't.

Okay, what is the proper thing to do when a child is screaming and/or unruly in a public place not meant for children? Do you honestly do not believe that if you are in a movie theater or a nice restaurant and your child starts to scream, throw things, run around annoying people, etc. that you should not make them stop or remove them? Do you believe that you carry no responsibility as a parent to try to make sure your children aren't annoying the fark out of everyone around them when you are out in public? I do really want you to explain this to me.

I said you don't know 100% of the time, it's a BS 'know it all' statement that you're using to sound smug. Of course you should try to make them stop. If you can remove them from the situation, you should do that as well. There are also some times you can't or shouldn't.

When are those times a parent can't or shouldn't attempt to get their child under control or remove them from the situation? Are you really saying there are time when a parent is completely justified in not even attempting to get their child under control?


Can't remove? Try 35,000 ft over the Atlantic.

Not even attempting? Well since I never said that, you can make up something.
 
2013-09-18 04:16:32 PM

RayD8: Falstaff: Cozret: marsoft: Sounds like you really hold your parents in contempt.

Contempt, no. They are wonderful people who have always been there for me. Much like the parents of my friends for them, my co-workers, myself for mine, etc. However, many people seem to think that parenting grants magic knowledge or that having (or not having) children affects the truth value of a person's statements, and that I find amusing.

Speaking from my own limited experience here - If it grants you anything beyond stress and sleepless nights, parenting grants you heightened sympathy/empathy for what other parents are going through.  You may not know that guy next to you, and he may not know you.  You both have, however, been screamed at for a few months by someone who can barely communicate back to you, have been worried the first time the little one got sick, wondered if you are doing it right, have been urinated on, etc.

Don't need to be a parent for that, dude.


True, I've had puppys do that while sitting on my lap.
 
2013-09-18 04:41:32 PM

Slaxl: You know what, that blog post did raise a good point. I had blindly assumed parents were being selfish dicks when they were ignoring their kids when they could just do something to make the infant shut up. Now I realise it's not that simple, because I never thought about it before.



What about if we all make an agreement that until childless flights are a thing that you will all do your best to get on flights between 11am and 5pm. Everything out of those hours we can call adult friendly. Is that a fair compromise?  I just want to find a solution to our respective problems. I know we can do it. If there's one think Fark is good for it's rational, and well tempered conversation leading to fruitful debate where all parties leave amicably.

Also, everyone else, don't clap and cheer when the plane lands. Who does that? I mean really. It's just silly.
 
People on flights to Puerto Rico tend to do that, I guess they' are just happy that the plane made it down safely.
 
2013-09-18 04:45:58 PM

Ebbelwoi: Probably 60 international flights and I only ever had one mid-flight meltdown.... with an 8 month old.   Nothing I could do... but since I'm the Dad I was getting disapproving looks from some females.  Fat, ugly woman right behind me said "why don't you control that child.  She woke me up" in the rudest possible tone.  I asked her if crying babies bothered her on airplanes.  She said yes, of course.  So I told her loud enough for the cabin to hear "the get your own private farking airplane and you won't have that problem".  She got laughed at by about 50 people and, as if by magic, baby stopped crying and started laughing too.


Was it Lady J?
 
2013-09-18 04:56:55 PM

gglibertine: jayhawk88: The twins in public thing is one of the weirdest phenomenon ever. I can't say we ever had a "strangers touching" problem, but just everywhere, everyone has to know "do they run in your family" or "are they identical". It does lessen the older they get, though.

How much older? I'm 46 and random strangers still feel the need to comment on my breasts.


Pics or it didn't happen.
 
2013-09-18 07:57:37 PM
I will say the quality of parenting has gone downhill considerably over the last several generations.

/IMHO
 
2013-09-18 08:51:50 PM

bborchar: fredklein: bborchar: Really hope you don't have kids, because a dog would deserve better.

Yeah- you seem like the type to put Fido in 'time-out' for shiatting on the rug.

Hitting a dog for something it can't control is about as stupid as hitting a kid for the same reason.


1) I never said anything about hitting the dog.
2) Dogs can certainly control where they move their bowels. Look up 'housetraining' sometime. (So can kids, BTW)
3):
i.qkme.me
 
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