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(Some Dad)   Thoughtful, well written message about how non-parents don't know anything about parenting and should keep their filthy mouths shut   (themattwalshblog.com) divider line 537
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12825 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Sep 2013 at 7:02 AM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-17 10:37:21 AM
Satan's Bunny Slippers:
I agree with all the above.  Again as I've said, I don't have kids of my own, BUT the last damn place I expect peace is the grocery store.  What annoys me most?  It's a tossup between cows who park their cart in the middle of the aisle and wander up and down, or the other idiot at the deli who wants a taste of everything before deciding on their 1/4 lb of plain turkey.  Seriously?  You've never tasted ham before?  This isn't a lunch counter, GTFO.

Small kids are the LEAST of any issue I may have with the grocery store.  Teens however....well we can all agree that teens are a species unto themselves, and convention does not apply. :)

However, I do have an issue with those godawfully huge "car karts ...


I still hate the ones that are low to the ground and always avoid them, even with the protests of my kid...they're just too cumbersome and I like to be out of the way in the store.  My primary grocery has these car carts where the upper *back* part of the cart (the part where the push handle is located) is a car with two steering wheels.  They're still a little bigger than the normal cart but their easier to keep out of the way.

But yeah, I do most of the grocery shopping and the biggest problem in the store is other people and not kids.  Hell, the worst "kid" incident are parents who bring several 6-9 year olds and let them run about and that's not *near* as bad as many people in the store.  People who block aisles just piss me off to no end.  It takes minimal effort to keep your damn cart off to the side or out of the way.  I understand that at times someone may have their cart right in front of what I need and that's not a big deal.  But dead stopping your shiat right next to a aisle display or another person with five people navigating up the aisle?....push your shiat to the side and walk the five farking feet between your cart and what you need.
 
2013-09-17 10:40:19 AM
There are places you can go if you want food without the child experience, they are called bars and expensive restaurants.
If you are biatching about kids in a grocery store, a family restaurant, the bus or in a park
you really properly need to shut the hell up.
 
2013-09-17 10:40:45 AM

UberDave: their


"They're" dammit...
 
2013-09-17 10:41:19 AM

togaman2k: The public temper tantrums aren't a problem because they will happen to most kids at some point.  I just carry on with my business.

It really grinds my gears when it is the parents with <5 yr olds at the Dark Knight


This is where I think non-parents - along with everyone else - really do have a solid point.  Try taking that up a level of irritation when you're a parent with a child the same age - a parent that never takes their kids to the movies with them because they know how rude it is, so don't really get out except once in a long while ... and then you do get that night out with your spouse.  So, you've gotten the babysitter, made plans, and now you are about to watch a movie in peace and quiet without the kids ... and then some asshole comes in with a kid that talks a cries through the whole goddamn thing.
 
2013-09-17 10:41:37 AM
I am a parent. The bottom line is kids freak out sometimes, and there is very little you can do about it. You can avoid public places where you don't need to go or where you might ruin other people's enjoyment of the place. For example, I recently went to a play in the park, and this toddler ran/stumbled on to the stage no less than FIFTEEN times. It was horribly distracting. Each time, the mother would stand up, walk on to the stage, and bring the toddler back and let go of her. She didn't move to the back of the audience. She didn't leave. She didn't hold on to the toddler. I was sitting with a mother, and she was a bit more understanding than I was, but she was still pretty annoyed.

My point is there are instances where parents aren't necessarily bad, but they need to better control their kids. A grocery store is not really a place where others' experience is destroyed because of a wild kid. You can leave the aisle. You are only there for a temporary time. It's not a nice restaurant. It IS someplace where parents with little children HAVE TO go. So, deal with it.
 
2013-09-17 10:42:51 AM

robohobo: Also, we're all forcefully made to contribute monetarily to children that aren't ours. So fark off, parents. YOU farking made the choice to make more people. In most cases, people you cannot afford.


Just think, when you were young you were probably that tantrum-throwing, self-centered, immature, screaming little child and now ... well, now you're old enough to use a keyboard. Good on you, never grow up!

// Waaaaaaahhh, children crying make me cranky. Waaaaaaahhhh! Need my bah-bah!
 
2013-09-17 10:43:08 AM

Jack Mackbell: I'm generally tolerant of kids in most places. Public parks, grocery stores, the bus, planes... whatever. I can tune them out.

However, I will not tolerate screeching children in the movie theater. That is the one place where without a shadow of a doubt, a person who opts to remain in their seat with a disruptive child is an inconsiderate asshole. There is absolutely no excuse, no justification for that.


It depends, are you on your third screening of Equestria Girls? If so, cut the kids a little slack.
 
2013-09-17 10:43:54 AM

ciberido: earthwirm: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

Actually, no you don't. Deal with it.

Actually, yes, she does.  Deal with it.


She can get the fark off the bus......

/Walking vs crying child!
//Let the games begin!
///Two men enter, one man leaves!
////Who runs Bartertown?!?
//Personal slashie best!
 
2013-09-17 10:44:57 AM

Freudian_slipknot: forever_blowing_bubbles: However I am AMAZED you can tell a bad parent just by looking at them

You generally can actually tell just by looking at their kids, not at the parents.


That's complete and utter crap. You do realize that children have their own personalities and are individuals, right? Not every child will be perfect even with perfect parenting, and that's just for the normal kids. Throw in disorders such as autism or ADHD, and it's even harder. Kids make mistakes...as a parent, you try to teach them not to, but some kids just have to find out for themselves, and some never learn. A friend of mine in high school was killed in a car crash because he was driving without a license and speeding...but his parents were great parents. He just made a stupid (and fatal) mistake, because he was a kid (15). And only smug a**holes could look at that and say "well, if they were better parents, he wouldn't have died doing so stupid". Most parents would look at that and say "oh god, I hope my kid doesn't do that", simply because you KNOW there's no way to watch them 24-7-365.
 
2013-09-17 10:45:02 AM
im still being quoted! it's notoriety of a kind

i think we can all agree that even worse than screeching brats are entitled mommies who won't angle their double buggy 1 degree off the middle oof the pavement as you approach in the opposite direction because THEY'RE A PARENT AND THEREFORE THE MOST SPECIAL PEOPLE IN THE UNIVERSE

also wtf is up with this font?
 
2013-09-17 10:45:56 AM

ReapTheChaos: When my kids were at the age where they would do shiat like that in public, my wife or I would take them outside and wait for them to calm down before returning. Parents these days simply have no farking respect for the people around them. They feel if they have to listen to their spoiled brat throwing a fit, everyone else should have to as well.

If you're in the damn grocery store and your kid is throwing a fit, it's you job as a parent to leave, not drag him through the place kicking and screaming. Yes it's inconvenient. Yes it means your schedule is going to be thrown off. So what, dinner gets on the table late that night, that's life. The rest of the world should not have to put up with your brats poor behavior.


This is exactly what I did when my two kids were toddlers. They are my choice, they are my responsibility, including teaching them civility. And guess what, Precious Snowflake Producers, three year-olds CAN learn this. It is not easy. It requires discipline and planning. You must allow yourself extra time to do everything. You sacrifice some things because you know you will not have the time/space to deal with a melt-down. You get a babysitter because Little Mackenzy doesn't need to go see the Matisse exhibit (plus it'll bore the shiat out of him). Buy him the poster at the museum gift shop and hang it in his room.

Take 'em out of where they're making a scene, take them to a safe place outside the store, out of the flow of people, and say, "OK, go ahead, make your scene now, I'll wait."

They'll look up at you with a "fark you" expression and say, "no." Then you go back to your business and when they start to fuss you say, "Do you need to go outside?" Guaran-damn-tee you they tighten that shiat right up.
 
2013-09-17 10:47:26 AM

Big_Fat_Liar: Satan's Bunny Slippers: marsoft:

I think this one is better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6XZ-0ns2yA

I actually did something very similar when I had taken my oldest niece shopping when she was about 5.  (She's now 36)...she started up, and I just mimicked everything she did, but more animated and louder.  I'm sure the folks in Farm & Fleet got quite a show of my then young 20 something self jumping up and down, flapping my arms and whining about how I wanted a sparkle pony for my birthday and didn't get one.

Confusion gave way to giggles, then we were done.   Took maybe 3 minutes.

Is F & F just in the Midwest?  I love farm and Fleet - dunno why exactly - thinks it's just that they have a little of everything I think I need, except guns.  Think I've only seen it here in Illinois and also southern Wisconsin.


Yes, they are only in Illinois, Wisconsin, and Iowa.  My favorite store of all time.  Get tires, pick up some snacks, maybe some new tennies and a couple shirts, new grill, tires are done, go home.

The one closest to me used to sell guns, but stopped a few years ago.  Long before the current crop of gun issues became headlines.  I don't know why.  I think they still sell ammo, but don't quote me on that.
 
2013-09-17 10:47:31 AM

Falstaff: As a new father of twin girls, feel free to express any opinion you want.  I may laugh, I may tell you off.  Either way, we'll be good.

Do NOT, however, just walk up and start rubbing their cheek or stroking their hair.  I just about knocked a woman out last night for doing that.  Didn't say two words to me, just walks up and starts rubbing my youngest's head.  Creepy as hell.


I freakin' hate that.  Absolutely.  Even worse is when they grab my son's hand, which he has a propensity to stick in his mouth.  Get your goddamn filthy hands off my son's hands, no matter how careful we are, he eventually sneaks them into his mouth, don't want your farking salmonella, shigella, ETEC sending him to the hospital with the runs.

I will sometimes accept them touching his little feet if they are polite, talk to me, and ask first.  I know babies are irresistible, even more so that my kids are the cutest kids in the world (sorry, I'm sure your twins come in a close second and third!), so it's a cross I have to bear.
 
2013-09-17 10:48:33 AM

onzmadi: There are places you can go if you want food without the child experience, they are called bars and expensive restaurants.
If you are biatching about kids in a grocery store, a family restaurant, the bus or in a park
you really properly need to shut the hell up.


Pretty much.

I don't take my toddler to nice restaurants (anything nicer than a diner or a Friday's).  I don't take him to the movies (except a couple times to a G-rated animated film, matinee showing).

But you can't just keep kids at home all the time.  Sometimes you need to shop.  Sometimes you need to travel.  Sometimes a plane is the only way (or only practical way) of getting where you need to go.  And sometimes even the best-behaved kid is going to have a meltdown.  It happens.  People muttering for parents to "control their kids" don't realize that kids can't be "controlled" like some puppet.  Kids have a mind of their own.  The best you can do is tell your child what is acceptable and what isn't, reinforce positive behaviors, and discourage anti-social behaviors.
 
2013-09-17 10:52:42 AM

Gimmick: Perfect for baby showers:


I don't know or want to know what you are planning to do to the dog, but you are not doing it in my house.
 
2013-09-17 10:52:53 AM

ph0rk: Civchic: So, maybe that parent on that plane HAD planned well.  Had scheduled those optimum hours, brought snacks and games to weather a flight or two - and the airlines s*&t all over it.  Hm?

Ok, drug them when they board the plane instead.


My coworker told me a story about his Dr. uncle drugging his kid on a flight.  The kid had a paradoxical reaction to the tranquilizer and ended up running around the plane punching people.
 
2013-09-17 10:53:04 AM
1) I can't understand how hard parenting is because I don't have kids, so I just wish you parents good luck with your kids, and that they aren't difficult in public. Having said that...

2) For the love of heaven, would you parents pushing these monstrously sized strollers everywhere learn how to push and use them? I'm beyond annoyed having my foot run over by some parent just pushing the stroller any which way. My feet are not just part of the scenery.
 
2013-09-17 10:53:07 AM
UberDave:

I still hate the ones that are low to the ground and always avoid them, even with the protests of my kid...they're just too cumbersome and I like to be out of the way in the store.  -------

The store I go to has the low to the ground, two kids sit in FRONT of the basket part near the floor with steering wheels in front of them.  Damn things are probably close to 6 feet long, and at least 12 inches wider than a standard cart.  I hates them, I do.

 But yeah, I do most of the grocery shopping and the biggest problem in the store is other people and not kids.  --------not *near* as bad as many people in the store.  People who block aisles just piss me off to no end.  -------  I understand that at times someone may have their cart right in front of what I need and that's not a big deal.  But dead stopping your shiat right next to a aisle display or another person with five people navigating up the aisle?....push your shiat to the side and walk the five farking feet between your cart and what you need.


ALL of that.  Stupid adults ruin much more of my time in stores than kids ever did, or will.
 
2013-09-17 10:53:58 AM

Lady J: im still being quoted! it's notoriety of a kind

i think we can all agree that even worse than screeching brats are entitled mommies who won't angle their double buggy 1 degree off the middle oof the pavement as you approach in the opposite direction because THEY'RE A PARENT AND THEREFORE THE MOST SPECIAL PEOPLE IN THE UNIVERSE

also wtf is up with this font?


You are projecting so hard if we shoved a DVD in your ass we could watch it from the moon:
"Look at that SELF-CENTERED biatch, why should I move for her pushing a 40 pound stroller with a baby in it?!? Fark you!!!"
 
2013-09-17 10:56:55 AM
YOUR ANECDOTE IS FAKE. NONE OF THAT HAPPENED.
 
2013-09-17 10:59:07 AM

Satan's Bunny Slippers: Yes, they are only in Illinois, Wisconsin, and Iowa.


We had Farm and Fleet in Ohio when I was a kid. All the ones I know of were eventually replaced by TSC stores. And TSC sucks.
 
2013-09-17 11:01:55 AM

Mugato: I have a niece and nephew I take out sometimes and I've never had any problems with their throwing a tantrum or acting up. Take some parenting classes, get a nanny or go to the nearest PetSmart and buy a muzzle. Failing all of that, don't get all indignant when someone expresses annoyance at your shrieking spawn.No one should yell at you or anything but don't get all uppity if someone's natural reaction is to look annoyed in your direction.


Yeah, that's just like being a parent when you get to give them back once they get tired and cranky. If you really haven't had a problem, then chances are mom or dad was the one who had to handle the tantrums or acting up and used that to get them straightened out before you got them. That's kudos to them, not you.

EVERY parent has at least one or two meltdowns in a public place. EVERY parent. You might not have any beyond that, and the one you have may or may not be short (no guarantees on the first one) depending upon how you handled that teachable moment as a parent, but there's ALWAYS the first time. There is no exception to that rule because every child has to learn at some point that they can't have everything they want, and every child has to learn that Mommy and Daddy don't give in to their demands just because there are other people around. A fully functioning child does not exist that hasn't tried it. If you teach your child that he or she can have their way by acting like a tool, then you are a bad parent, and you're encouraging them to act like a tool every time you go out rather than a few times.

Anyone who has ever had a child and says that they've never had a problem is either oblivious (and a real bad parent/caretaker) or lying.
 
2013-09-17 11:04:37 AM

JuniorII


I see you have your TotalFark membership all up to date....

Wait you don't? Maybe all that money you brag about is imaginary......


Yes, the only thing standing between me and TF is financial hardship.

It's not that I don't want to read hundreds of poorly constructed, redlit headlines and don't want to observe the relentless CJs in TFD. It's that I cannot spare $5 per month.

Truly you have a dizzying intellect.
 
2013-09-17 11:05:49 AM

Joe USer: vudukungfu:  Crib midgets. Crotch fruit. Sex trophies. Crotch droppings. Crumb snatchers. Womb rats. Ankle biters. Snowflakes. Spawn.
Miss any?

You forgot one. Future caregivers for us at 75.


You plan on being an invalid at 75?
 
2013-09-17 11:06:08 AM

forever_blowing_bubbles: Lady J: im still being quoted! it's notoriety of a kind

i think we can all agree that even worse than screeching brats are entitled mommies who won't angle their double buggy 1 degree off the middle oof the pavement as you approach in the opposite direction because THEY'RE A PARENT AND THEREFORE THE MOST SPECIAL PEOPLE IN THE UNIVERSE

also wtf is up with this font?

You are projecting so hard if we shoved a DVD in your ass we could watch it from the moon:
"Look at that SELF-CENTERED biatch, why should I move for her pushing a 40 pound stroller with a baby in it?!? Fark you!!!"


as a parent with a kid who still rides a stroller, I actually side with her.  I don't propose people should move off the sidewalk or anything, but at the very least move to one g-damn edge of the sidewalk to let other people past.  Add to that the fact that people are getting huge double-wide jogging strollers (even though the most obviously, don't ever go out for runs) and then blocking sidewalks with them, it's rather annoying, particularly in parts of town with crowded sidewalks.  The worst is when the take the huge strollers into some tiny mom-and-pop store somewhere and create chaos because they don't fit and are in everybody's way.  Take the kid out, carry them, leave the stroller outside.  If your kid is sleeping, too bad, stay outside with them and the stroller while your wife checks out the store.  if there's something worth seeing, she can come take your place while you go in and see stuff.

This isn't asking much, just a general sense of consideration for other people's times and day.  Yes, you have a child, yes, having a child is inconvenient and hard work.  But no, it doesn't mean you get to ignore the needs of others.  Other people use the sidewalk, move your sport utility stroller off the middle, and other people like to shop in little shops in tourist areas, keep your stroller outside and carry the kid in.  How do I know this isn't asking much?  Because I do this myself, and have always done it.

That being said, I do very much welcome the occasional stranger that will hold a door open while I'm trying to open a door and push a stroller through.  Or people who otherwise try to make my life a bit easier when my arms are full and I am pushing a stroller as well.
 
2013-09-17 11:07:24 AM

Kristoph57: This is gonna be good when the "my kids are angels" crowd shows up.


Those are usually the ones with the worst behaved kids, in my experience, because you can't correct a problem if you are oblivious to it. I have a niece who is a prime example. She's generally a spoiled bully. Gets what she wants and orders other kids around. Her mom will look you in the eye dead serious and tell you that she's never had a problem with her. That little terror is eight years old and STILL throws tantrums whenever she doesn't get what she wants-- and Mom gives in to them.
 
2013-09-17 11:10:01 AM

max_pooper: marsoft: Cozret: marsoft: Sounds like you really hold your parents in contempt.

Contempt, no. They are wonderful people who have always been there for me. Much like the parents of my friends for them, my co-workers, myself for mine, etc. However, many people seem to think that parenting grants magic knowledge or that having (or not having) children affects the truth value of a person's statements, and that I find amusing.

I think you are confusing experience with "magical knowledge".  Would you agree that for instance a zoo keeper making statements regarding the care and feeding of zoo animals opinion is more valid on that subject than that of someone who has never had even a pet?

Zookeepers are professionals who have had professional training in the care of animals. Idiot parents, not so much.


My favorite line in the film "Parenthood" (1989):
(Keanu Reeves) Tod: "You know, Mrs. Buckman, you need a license to buy a dog, to drive a car - hell, you even need a license to catch a fish. But they'll let any butt-reaming asshole be a father. "
 
2013-09-17 11:12:06 AM

abhorrent1: How about you parents quit expecting everyone to change the way they live to accommodate your little farking brat?

Oh. You don't like what's on TV because your snowflake may see it? Here's a news flash: You TV has a power button!


While I agree with you on television, what does that have to do with the issue brought up in TFA?
 
2013-09-17 11:13:01 AM
Parenting in public is very easy if you make the slightest effort.  Make sure the kid is well napped, and be consistent with your expectations, and chat with them as you shop.  They will then never act up in public.  It worked for me.

That being said, it's entirely pointless for anyone to point out bad parenting publicly.  They either get insulted, or they just don't care.
 
2013-09-17 11:13:05 AM

supayoda: Kristoph57: This is gonna be good when the "my kids are angels" crowd shows up.

Those are usually the ones with the worst behaved kids, in my experience, because you can't correct a problem if you are oblivious to it. I have a niece who is a prime example. She's generally a spoiled bully. Gets what she wants and orders other kids around. Her mom will look you in the eye dead serious and tell you that she's never had a problem with her. That little terror is eight years old and STILL throws tantrums whenever she doesn't get what she wants-- and Mom gives in to them.


They rationalize any bad behaviors as "well of course she does that, she's got X syndrome." Or, "you must have put factory processed wheat in your cookies, she never does that with my organic, cruelty-free, Peruvian K'khabba-grain cookies."
 
2013-09-17 11:14:36 AM

Tat'dGreaser: I don't understand people who hate children so much. You do know you were that screaming a-hole at one point in your life right?


I'm not sure they do.

There's a whole host of people in the world (and on Fark) who seem to think that their minds don't work like normal human minds and they never do silly, irrational, or annoying things.  I would bet a whole big sack of money that there are many people who say "I was never like that as a child" who totally were like that as a child.  And I'll bet you further that some of them are in this very thread.
 
2013-09-17 11:15:22 AM

Doc Daneeka: onzmadi: There are places you can go if you want food without the child experience, they are called bars and expensive restaurants.
If you are biatching about kids in a grocery store, a family restaurant, the bus or in a park
you really properly need to shut the hell up.

Pretty much.

I don't take my toddler to nice restaurants (anything nicer than a diner or a Friday's).  I don't take him to the movies (except a couple times to a G-rated animated film, matinee showing).


My rule of thumb for restaurants is that if they have high chairs, they expect to have kids.  I'm not taking the <1 year olds to Ruth Chris, don't get too upset with me if they are at Perkins and drop some cheerios.  :-)

My little ones are still way to young to take to the movies.  They can't even sit through a full episode of Caillou.
 
2013-09-17 11:15:50 AM
I have tons of empathy for parents of screaming children at the supermarket (and that's why I do my best not to stare or make parents feel bad), but I can still get annoyed after 20 minutes of screaming. What I have difficulty accepting is unattended children playing tag in stores or babies in fine dining restaurants after 9 oclock. My bf said a woman brought a five and ten year old to his showing of Evil Dead and I didnt even think I could handle that movie.

Everyone is entitled to their own feelings and opinions. In an ideal world we'd all just try to consider other people's perspectives before eagerly sharing our opinions. The bonus is (regardless of your expertise on the matter) that complaining about one's parenting skills is not going to make them better parents. You might momentarily shame them into a temporary behavior, but they will resent you and write angry blogs about you.
 
2013-09-17 11:16:30 AM
I was on a flight with a crying kid recently.  Probably wouldn't have noticed except the guy next to me kept sighing dramatically and alternating between turning to glare at the family and shooting me looks like, 'you believe this sh*t?'   Kid on a plane, I can understand there's going to be discomfort.  But there is nothing sadder in the world than watching a grown man have a temper tantrum.
 
2013-09-17 11:19:30 AM

supayoda: Mugato: I have a niece and nephew I take out sometimes and I've never had any problems with their throwing a tantrum or acting up. Take some parenting classes, get a nanny or go to the nearest PetSmart and buy a muzzle. Failing all of that, don't get all indignant when someone expresses annoyance at your shrieking spawn.No one should yell at you or anything but don't get all uppity if someone's natural reaction is to look annoyed in your direction.

Yeah, that's just like being a parent when you get to give them back once they get tired and cranky. If you really haven't had a problem, then chances are mom or dad was the one who had to handle the tantrums or acting up and used that to get them straightened out before you got them. That's kudos to them, not you.

EVERY parent has at least one or two meltdowns in a public place. EVERY parent. You might not have any beyond that, and the one you have may or may not be short (no guarantees on the first one) depending upon how you handled that teachable moment as a parent, but there's ALWAYS the first time. There is no exception to that rule because every child has to learn at some point that they can't have everything they want, and every child has to learn that Mommy and Daddy don't give in to their demands just because there are other people around. A fully functioning child does not exist that hasn't tried it. If you teach your child that he or she can have their way by acting like a tool, then you are a bad parent, and you're encouraging them to act like a tool every time you go out rather than a few times.

Anyone who has ever had a child and says that they've never had a problem is either oblivious (and a real bad parent/caretaker) or lying.


This is very true.  This is why I'm a fan of the drop everything and take my child outside theory though.  It allows me to deal with the tantrum outside of prying eyes and of course, it's considerate of others who may not be in the mood to hear ear-splitting screams on saturday morning.  The added benefit is that a trip outside is instantly recognized as "dad means business" and resulte in my daughter quieting down before we even hit the sidewalk.  haven't had to deal with an in-store tantrum in a long time.  There's the occasional in-store crying, but nothing remotely close to a melt-down.

Like you said, every kid tries a tantrum to see if it works.  Kid will have three outcomes, tantrum works, tantrum doesn't work, or tantrum leaves the in a worse situation than they were in before.  I try for the latter outcome (take away a toy or no longer buying something that i was originally going to get them) and it's always preceded by leaving the establishment and going outside.  Going outside means business.

Ignoring a tantrum is also acceptable, but much slower and honestly, unpleasant for everybody involved.  It's unpleasant for my child, it's unpleasant for me, and yes, it's unpleasant to other people in the store or restaurant.  The one time I was only able to ignore a tantrum instead of going outside was at an airport.  I let her tire herself out on a tantrum in the middle of the airport, but the bonus was that she was docile and sleepy by the time we boarded the flight, so she slept straight through the last leg of our trip.
 
2013-09-17 11:21:23 AM

spiderpaz: togaman2k: The public temper tantrums aren't a problem because they will happen to most kids at some point.  I just carry on with my business.

It really grinds my gears when it is the parents with <5 yr olds at the Dark Knight

This is where I think non-parents - along with everyone else - really do have a solid point.  Try taking that up a level of irritation when you're a parent with a child the same age - a parent that never takes their kids to the movies with them because they know how rude it is, so don't really get out except once in a long while ... and then you do get that night out with your spouse.  So, you've gotten the babysitter, made plans, and now you are about to watch a movie in peace and quiet without the kids ... and then some asshole comes in with a kid that talks a cries through the whole goddamn thing.


Movies aren't that bad in general.  The biggest issue is the appropriateness of time.  R-rated with violence/drug use/sex/adult-themes is never appropriate for elementary schoolers (granted, I watched Striptease and Get Shorty with my parents when I was that age, but that was at home in a controlled environment).  My wife is a teacher, so we love going to see all the new kids movies without kids ourselves but the expectation is kids doing kids things.  Even kids out shopping and things it is more or less expected on occasion but I shouldn't see kids at Wal-Mart after midnight or in an R-rated movie.

Parents need to put on their thinking caps and consider what situations are appropriate or not for their child's healthy development.  At the very least, they should be going to bed at a reasonable time at night, not grocery shopping.
 
2013-09-17 11:22:12 AM

supayoda: Mugato: I have a niece and nephew I take out sometimes and I've never had any problems with their throwing a tantrum or acting up. Take some parenting classes, get a nanny or go to the nearest PetSmart and buy a muzzle. Failing all of that, don't get all indignant when someone expresses annoyance at your shrieking spawn.No one should yell at you or anything but don't get all uppity if someone's natural reaction is to look annoyed in your direction.

Yeah, that's just like being a parent when you get to give them back once they get tired and cranky. If you really haven't had a problem, then chances are mom or dad was the one who had to handle the tantrums or acting up and used that to get them straightened out before you got them. That's kudos to them, not you.
...
Anyone who has ever had a child and says that they've never had a problem is either oblivious (and a real bad parent/caretaker) or lying.


Or forgetting.  Our minds have a wonderful capacity for forgetting - forgetting childbirth pain, forgetting horribly embarrassing public displays of toddler power struggles, forgetting our own bad behaviour and total loss of that last nerve.  It's easy to look back on these times and remember them fondly.  Otherwise we'd never have more kids.

/in the midst.  3-year-old hellion.  He's a good boy, but takes after his stubborn, bull-headed parents.  Discipline and structure are necessities in our life, and woe is me on the days I let it slip.  He's opportunistic, for sure!
//strangers compliment us on our wonderfully behaved child.  They don't see him at home. Ha!
 
2013-09-17 11:22:22 AM

Falstaff: Doc Daneeka: onzmadi: There are places you can go if you want food without the child experience, they are called bars and expensive restaurants.
If you are biatching about kids in a grocery store, a family restaurant, the bus or in a park
you really properly need to shut the hell up.

Pretty much.

I don't take my toddler to nice restaurants (anything nicer than a diner or a Friday's).  I don't take him to the movies (except a couple times to a G-rated animated film, matinee showing).

My rule of thumb for restaurants is that if they have high chairs, they expect to have kids.  I'm not taking the <1 year olds to Ruth Chris, don't get too upset with me if they are at Perkins and drop some cheerios.  :-)

My little ones are still way to young to take to the movies.  They can't even sit through a full episode of Caillou.


to be fair, sitting through an episode of Caillou is child abuse.  I would not expect anybody to do that.
 
2013-09-17 11:24:26 AM

UtopianDevil: I found it odd that the article (and those commenting) all seem to take it as given that children have 'meltdowns' and tantrums in public. This most certainly hasn't been my experience. I didn't see that behavior with my nieces and nephews, the children of my friends or even my own daughter.


No so CSB:

I do remember picking my daughter up from her mother when she was 3. Her mom told me that she had been having trouble all week with her throwing tantrums - throw herself on the floor, kick and scream until she gets her way. Having never seen any such behavior from my kid, I just nodded along and wondered when that started and why.

So my daughter and I stop at the grocery store on the way home and things are going well. She wants me to buy something (can't remember what) and the answer is no. And now I get to see the tantrum. Her face turns red, starts to cry/scream and goes to throw herself on the floor. I caught her by the arm, bent down nose to nose and growled "There will be none of that!". Tantrum over and it was the last time I ever saw that behavior from her.

/CSB

My two cents on parenting - be consistent. Never let them manipulate you, blackmail you, embarrass you or do anything else that makes you change the rules. I don't have a tenth of the problems with my daughter that her mother has and I honestly think it is because she knows the expectations are consistent and punishment will be swift and sure.


So basically... The tantrum you and the people around you had to deal with doesn't count as a tantrum? That's the point I try to make. EVERY child attempts it at least once. And for that moment, no matter how brief, you were the "bad parent" for the shoppers around you, who were all collectively saying, "Not MY child." The really fun part of that is that shoppers likely continued to hate you even after the tantrum was over.

Nine times out of ten, the parent you see with a kid throwing a tantrum in the grocery store is just dealing with the same thing you did, and it'll only happen once or twice. But even if they're dealing with it as they should and not giving in (which might make the tantrum worse for that one time but will ultimately result in no tantrums), they're going to be labeled as "bad parent" for the duration of said tantrum.
 
2013-09-17 11:27:27 AM
I have an autistic preschooler, so meltdowns are more common than I'd like. But that's why I almost always bring FARKING backup! If he can't get it together, we can remove him and still finish shopping, without asking others to listen. But you've got to give the kid a chance to pull themselves together. If a kid is never given the chance to get it right, they're not going to learn. When I set my son up to succeed, he gains self confidence and initiates the behavior.
 
2013-09-17 11:28:39 AM

UtopianDevil: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Yes, they are only in Illinois, Wisconsin, and Iowa.

We had Farm and Fleet in Ohio when I was a kid. All the ones I know of were eventually replaced by TSC stores. And TSC sucks.


Last time I was in our TSC, I was looking for a gate wheel.  The man working in that area looked at me like I asked for a three horned space alien in blue.  Yep, they suck.
 
2013-09-17 11:36:03 AM
OK I'm convinced. having kids looks like it could be fun
i26.photobucket.com

Ahh nah, not it doesn't
i26.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-17 11:36:16 AM

Cold_Sassy: My Mom had 4 children and, back in the day, you were still permitted to spank your child and that took care of most behavioral issues.  I honestly can't remember me or any of my 3 brothers ever throwing a fit.  I'm sure we must have, but you could count on old Mom lowering the boom and that stemmed most bad behavior.

Too bad some stupid jerkoffs had to make that a crime.


I've spanked. Spanking doesn't work with my daughter for whatever reason, but I guess part of discipline is trying a few things and seeing what does work. Turns out, what worked for her was taking her toys out of her room. If she had a good day, she got to play with them. If she had a bad day, she didn't. Isolating her was another one we used that worked really well. I'd send her to her room (which had no toys in it), and you would think I'd attempted to crucify her. She worked hard to have a good day so that she could play with her toys and not have to spend time in her boring room. Now that she's seven, I find that her video games are a pretty good incentive. She's a freaking angel in exchange for a bit of Mario Kart.
 
2013-09-17 11:36:55 AM

Civchic: supayoda: Mugato: I have a niece and nephew I take out sometimes and I've never had any problems with their throwing a tantrum or acting up. Take some parenting classes, get a nanny or go to the nearest PetSmart and buy a muzzle. Failing all of that, don't get all indignant when someone expresses annoyance at your shrieking spawn.No one should yell at you or anything but don't get all uppity if someone's natural reaction is to look annoyed in your direction.

Yeah, that's just like being a parent when you get to give them back once they get tired and cranky. If you really haven't had a problem, then chances are mom or dad was the one who had to handle the tantrums or acting up and used that to get them straightened out before you got them. That's kudos to them, not you.
...
Anyone who has ever had a child and says that they've never had a problem is either oblivious (and a real bad parent/caretaker) or lying.

Or forgetting.  Our minds have a wonderful capacity for forgetting - forgetting childbirth pain, forgetting horribly embarrassing public displays of toddler power struggles, forgetting our own bad behaviour and total loss of that last nerve.  It's easy to look back on these times and remember them fondly.  Otherwise we'd never have more kids.

/in the midst.  3-year-old hellion.  He's a good boy, but takes after his stubborn, bull-headed parents.  Discipline and structure are necessities in our life, and woe is me on the days I let it slip.  He's opportunistic, for sure!
//strangers compliment us on our wonderfully behaved child.  They don't see him at home. Ha!


LOL, my daughter is actually the same way.  She is just like my wife in that she hates being cooped up inside the house.  The result is that she's always happy and well behaved outside but a bit grumpier and volatile at home.
 
2013-09-17 11:37:10 AM
The non-parent is right. If your child is throwing a major tantrum in public, and you keep on like nothing is happening, you are a BAD PARENT. GOOD PARENTS remove the child from the situation. Yes, it's inconvenient for you, the parent, but that's what parenting is. It's inconvenient for you, but worth it.

So take care of your damn kids and you won't have to worry about what you assume to be non-parents talking shiat about you.
 
2013-09-17 11:37:18 AM

Englebert Slaptyback: JuniorII

I see you have your TotalFark membership all up to date....

Wait you don't? Maybe all that money you brag about is imaginary......


Yes, the only thing standing between me and TF is financial hardship.

It's not that I don't want to read hundreds of poorly constructed, redlit headlines and don't want to observe the relentless CJs in TFD. It's that I cannot spare $5 per month.

Truly you have a dizzying intellect.


Sorry, thought you were Mark Cuban.
 
2013-09-17 11:39:07 AM

Satan's Bunny Slippers: UtopianDevil: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Yes, they are only in Illinois, Wisconsin, and Iowa.

We had Farm and Fleet in Ohio when I was a kid. All the ones I know of were eventually replaced by TSC stores. And TSC sucks.

Last time I was in our TSC, I was looking for a gate wheel.  The man working in that area looked at me like I asked for a three horned space alien in blue.  Yep, they suck.


I worked at TSC in high school because I refused to work a fast food job. So I'm getting kicks. We were the best store in the state at the time, but that was over 20 years ago.
 
2013-09-17 11:39:34 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

You'd also better keep it to yourself if you know what's good for you.  Stepping on a parent's last nerve is never a good idea.


But the parent wearing down on the nerves of everybody else in public is still a-okay.

/no wait, it's not
//remove your child from the situation, jackhole
 
2013-09-17 11:43:36 AM

Mugato: Joe USer: vudukungfu:  Crib midgets. Crotch fruit. Sex trophies. Crotch droppings. Crumb snatchers. Womb rats. Ankle biters. Snowflakes. Spawn.
Miss any?

You forgot one. Future caregivers for us at 75.

You plan on being an invalid at 75?


Why the heck not?
 
2013-09-17 11:43:57 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: The non-parent is right. If your child is throwing a major tantrum in public, and you keep on like nothing is happening, you are a BAD PARENT. GOOD PARENTS remove the child from the situation. Yes, it's inconvenient for you, the parent, but that's what parenting is. It's inconvenient for you, but worth it.

So take care of your damn kids and you won't have to worry about what you assume to be non-parents talking shiat about you.


While I also think the ideal is removing the child from the store to deal with them, I don't think ignoring the tantrum is bad parenting either.  Ignoring it means they are not giving in.  Giving in IS bad parenting, and that bad parenting isn't visible to you because the kid who gets everything they want at the store isn't making noise anymore.

When you see a parent ignoring a tantrum they could easily stop by getting the kid what he or she wants, you're seeing a parent with at least some resolve.  No fault in that, though I agree the ideal is to go outside and deal with the situation much more directly.
 
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