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(The Newspaper)   "I asked him if he had a permit to protest the red light cameras, and he said no"   (thenewspaper.com) divider line 119
    More: Florida, red light cameras, East Main Street, selective enforcement, free speech zone, Apopka, roofing  
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8022 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Sep 2013 at 2:43 PM (30 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-16 06:56:13 PM
Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech.


There that is his permit.
 
2013-09-16 06:56:20 PM
They guy should have just carried a pocket sized Constitution and presented it when asked if he had a permit.
 
2013-09-16 07:14:26 PM

Warlordtrooper: Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech.


There that is his permit.



That power was delegated to the States ;)
 
2013-09-16 07:20:05 PM
He was arrested for contempt of cop, nothing else.  If a cop tells you to do something lawful or not and you don't do it you are going to jail.  Usually on resisting without violence, or obstruction.

Also in FL I am pretty sure you are required by law and precedent to identify yourself (not with ID but name and address) so the obstruction has some merit *but* I am pretty sure the officer needs probable cause to ask for the identification which it sounds like he may or may not have.
 
2013-09-16 07:28:05 PM

jaylectricity: Gig103: rjakobi: Ah, so he's an attention whore.

Lock them all up.

That's what was said about those uppity folks in the south that used to do peaceful sit-ins.

I used to ride in the back of the bus with black people, when that was a thing.


How did they drive the bus from back there?
 
2013-09-16 07:30:18 PM

Honest Bender: Coconice: My only support for this type of thing comes from the fact that I feel that my right to travel through an area unmolested is no less important than the right of protestors to be heard.

I was not aware you had such a right.


9th Amendment, have a look.
 
2013-09-16 07:36:55 PM

feckingmorons: Honest Bender: Coconice: My only support for this type of thing comes from the fact that I feel that my right to travel through an area unmolested is no less important than the right of protestors to be heard.

I was not aware you had such a right.

9th Amendment, have a look.


The 9th amendment doesn't give you the right to "travel through an area unmolested."  If you had that right, the 9th amendment just says the constitution can't take it away.
 
2013-09-16 08:05:03 PM

Honest Bender: The 9th amendment doesn't give you the right to "travel through an area unmolested."


The Constitution doesn't GIVE anyone any rights.  It specifically outlines what the government is allowed to do, and how it's to be done.  And if you want to be pedantic, the 10th amendment most certainly protects the "right to travel through an area unmolested".
 
2013-09-16 08:26:15 PM

Honest Bender: feckingmorons: Honest Bender: Coconice: My only support for this type of thing comes from the fact that I feel that my right to travel through an area unmolested is no less important than the right of protestors to be heard.

I was not aware you had such a right.

9th Amendment, have a look.

The 9th amendment doesn't give you the right to "travel through an area unmolested."  If you had that right, the 9th amendment just says the constitution can't take it away.


You do have that right. It is an innate right all people have.

It is memorialized in UDHR §13.

The right to travel is a fundamental natural right, it does not owe its existence to the government (see 9th Amendment above) . This is recognized by the Courts as a natural right.

"The right to travel, to go from place to place as the means of transportation permit, is a natural right subject to the rights of others and to reasonable regulation under law. A restraint imposed by the Government of the United States upon this liberty, therefore, must conform with the provision of the Fifth Amendment that "No person shall be * * * deprived of * * * liberty * * * without due process of law"." Schatman v. Dulles [225 F2d. 938]

Your rights don't need to be enumerated somewhere for you to have such rights, in fact our mere existence grants us untold rights that may be abridged or infringed upon only with supremely valid reason and as minimally as possible to achieve the purposes for which they are abrogated and such abrogation always subject to judicial review.


You probably also have a different definition of unmolested. Some guy asking you to sign a petition does not infringe upon any of your rights.
 
2013-09-16 08:34:44 PM
Any lawyers from George around to weigh in on what sort of permit I might need to stand on the Georgia side of the border, getting signatures for my petition to saw Florida off and let it float away to rejoin Cuba?
 
2013-09-16 08:35:19 PM
GEORGIA
 
2013-09-16 09:01:14 PM

cgremlin: The Constitution doesn't GIVE anyone any rights.


...That's exactly what it does.

feckingmorons: You do have that right. It is an innate right all people have.

It is memorialized in UDHR §13.


You're half way there, good job!  Now show me that part that says you can't be molested while traveling.
 
2013-09-16 09:11:43 PM

feckingmorons: jaylectricity: Gig103: rjakobi: Ah, so he's an attention whore.

Lock them all up.

That's what was said about those uppity folks in the south that used to do peaceful sit-ins.

I used to ride in the back of the bus with black people, when that was a thing.

How did they drive the bus from back there?


Sheet, you think they let black people drive cars back then?
 
2013-09-16 09:32:05 PM

Honest Bender: cgremlin: The Constitution doesn't GIVE anyone any rights....That's exactly what it does.


I am sorry but you are completely incorrect. Our rights are ours because we exist. Some rights are very important and have had a history of being stolen from us by government. Those rights were enumerated in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights because they are so important. The Ninth Amendment points out exactly that, we have all of the rights in the Constitution and many, many more that aren't listed but that we enjoy simply because we exist.

The Constitution most certainly doesn't list every right we have. Think of the right to privacy, it is not enumerated in the Constitution yet it was fundamental in the Roe v. Wade case. Or Griswold v. Connecticut in which the marital 'right to privacy' was sacrosanct and therefore the State of Connecticut could not prohibit the use of contraceptives.

You have rights because you exist, not because they're written down.


Honest Bender: You're half way there, good job!  Now show me that part that says you can't be molested while traveling.


One's rights coexist peacefully with the rights of others. Just as you have the right to go about your business unimpeded, others have the right to speak in public. You can drive your car and someone can walk up to it at a stoplight and offer a petition for your signature. You haven't been molested, your journey not interrupted, your right to drive to the store has met the petition bearer's right to speak and they are not in conflict.

You have no obligation to roll down your window, or acknowledge the speaker. The petitioner has no obligation to refrain from speaking whilst near your car, nor to offer you the petition if he chooses not to.

He can't hit you with a stick and ask you to sign, nor can you punch him in the chops as he approaches your car. We can all live peaceably when we understand that our rights are also the rights of the man next to us. We live in a civilized society, respect for another person's rights is not an infringement upon ours.

What you consider a molestation is in actuality one of the most important rights we enjoy, the right to petition, the right to speak, the right to assemble. So important that they are the foremost in the Bill of Rights. It is imperative that we respect one another's right to speak freely as it is only through the free flow of ideas and information that our nation maintains all of the other freedoms and rights- both memorialized in the Bill of rights- as well as those inalienable rights with which we are blessed solely by our presence on this terrestrial sphere.
 
2013-09-16 09:37:50 PM

sweet-daddy-2: OtherLittleGuy: rjakobi:

some other great A.W.'s who were pesky troublemakers:
Washington, Jefferson, Hamilton, and Franklin; just to name a few.
Upstarts, I say. Upstarts, the lot of them.


as was this guy

i1277.photobucket.com

As F*ckingMorons said, the right to travel is implied in the constitutional right to liberty.  Speech zones are sometimes attempts to restrict speech under guise of a permissible restriction on time, place or manner, but in rare cases acceptable.  As noted, a hearing or legislative body in session are examples of places where not allowing you to speak freely could be a reasonable exercise of a time/place/manner restriction.
 
2013-09-16 09:57:27 PM

feckingmorons: What you consider a molestation is in actuality one of the most important rights we enjoy, the right to petition, the right to speak, the right to assemble. So important that they are the foremost in the Bill of Rights. It is imperative that we respect one another's right to speak freely as it is only through the free flow of ideas and information that our nation maintains all of the other freedoms and rights- both memorialized in the Bill of rights- as well as those inalienable rights with which we are blessed solely by our presence on this terrestrial sphere.


It freaks me out to even imagine a time when people weren't allowed to mention that the powers that be weren't doing things the way they should.
 
2013-09-17 12:00:28 AM

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: They are so far "out of peoples' way" that their message cannot be heard at all.  The last one I encountered was on public land at a National Park.  It was a 20'x20' square made of chain-link fence and it was not visible or within earshot of any of the common areas (parking lot, restrooms, ranger station, etc.)   There was a tiny placard near the ranger station directing people to it.  It made me want to vomit.


Wait, what?

The ones that I've seen in the national parks have always been just off the main entrance into the Visitor's Centers.  It's the entire reason why I'm less against them than I otherwise would be.  They're still a violation of the 1st amendment, but if you're doing it in a "These crazy idiots are not affiliated with us" way vs. a "Putting people we don't like in the next county over" way, I'm less against them.

/And I admit there's a confirmation bias because I don't see the ones that aren't right there next to the visitor's center.
 
2013-09-17 03:19:07 AM

Headso: GoldSpider: I was under the impression that requiring citizens to be properly registered/licensed before they be allowed to exercise their constitutional rights was called "common sense".

you think it's common sense for this guy to have to get a permit to handout flyers?


Subtle comment was too subtle for you...
 
2013-09-17 06:31:26 AM

meyerkev: The ones that I've seen in the national parks have always been just off the main entrance into the Visitor's Centers.  It's the entire reason why I'm less against them than I otherwise would be.   They're still a violation of the 1st amendment, but if you're doing it in a "These crazy idiots are not affiliated with us" way vs. a "Putting people we don't like in the next county over" way, I'm less against them.

/And I admit there's a confirmation bias because I don't see the ones that aren't right there next to the visitor's center.


I disagree.

The parks like roads ro courts are govt land set aside for a specific purpose.
 
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