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(LiveLeak)   Check out how the borders of European countries have changed in the past 1000 years. Lithuania inconsolable   (liveleak.com) divider line 18
    More: Cool, European countries, Lithuania, Europe 1000 AD, maps, invasion of Poland, borders  
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4417 clicks; posted to Video » on 16 Sep 2013 at 7:11 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



18 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-16 07:22:02 AM  
Or play Paradox Interactive games and have a lot more fun.

Also, representing political bodies like the HRE as delineated by a squiggly line on the map meant something quite different in the year 1000AD, the year 1250 AD, the year 1356 AD, the year 1618 AD, and so on. Let's not get started on "Muslim Spain". Point being, don't look at political entities prior to modernity as "nations" and "states", that's deceptive and lazy and based on a backwards projection of modern understandings.
 
2013-09-16 07:23:15 AM  
A good way to demonstrate that I know absolutely nothing about Europe's history.
 
2013-09-16 08:15:06 AM  

Seth'n'Spectrum: Or play Paradox Interactive games and have a lot more fun.

Also, representing political bodies like the HRE as delineated by a squiggly line on the map meant something quite different in the year 1000AD, the year 1250 AD, the year 1356 AD, the year 1618 AD, and so on. Let's not get started on "Muslim Spain". Point being, don't look at political entities prior to modernity as "nations" and "states", that's deceptive and lazy and based on a backwards projection of modern understandings.


please elucidate
 
2013-09-16 08:28:01 AM  
Hey, that's great.  Apparently the russians didn't repel the german invasion until 1950.  Hey, who knew?
 
2013-09-16 08:58:38 AM  
Northern part of Europe is missing - so the map sucks.
 
2013-09-16 09:12:05 AM  

Seth'n'Spectrum: Or play Paradox Interactive games and have a lot more fun.


Hah! I came to post something about Crusader Kings 2, but I see my work here is done.
 
2013-09-16 09:17:18 AM  

derpy: Seth'n'Spectrum: Or play Paradox Interactive games and have a lot more fun.

Also, representing political bodies like the HRE as delineated by a squiggly line on the map meant something quite different in the year 1000AD, the year 1250 AD, the year 1356 AD, the year 1618 AD, and so on. Let's not get started on "Muslim Spain". Point being, don't look at political entities prior to modernity as "nations" and "states", that's deceptive and lazy and based on a backwards projection of modern understandings.

please elucidate


The modern concept of a "Nation-State" didn't really exist until 1648 with the Treaty of Westphalia. Previously, there were just smatterings of fairly fluid polities that may or may not have owed allegiance to some national ruler.
 
2013-09-16 09:23:35 AM  
Knows all about what happened in Sicily
i1081.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-16 09:49:44 AM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: The modern concept of a "Nation-State" didn't really exist until 1648 with the Treaty of Westphalia. Previously, there were just smatterings of fairly fluid polities that may or may not have owed allegiance to some national ruler.


Well, really, the idea of the nation-state as a political ideal/concept didn't come about until the late 18th/19th centuries, although there may have been certain political actors that could be identified as nation-states going all the way back in history (Israel as the obvious example, but also the Netherlands later).

But the general point is absolutely correct. Many political entities that are implicitly identified as 'units' in the map video were not identifiable as independent political actors in the way we would think of them. France as a 'country' is difficult to justify at the time - the king was weak and just happened to be anointed. Or, the relationship between the HRE and northern Italy or Burgundy, which were nominally part of the empire but largely independent. Obviously, what's going on is we're treating the period with hindsight - we know that Acquitaine and Tolouse and so on eventually became part of France, so we color them France's color, and we know Burgundy and northern Italy didn't become part of Germany, so we color them separately quite early on. Not a perfect example, but it highlights the general problem.

Either you can identify a set of arbitrary requirements for 'independence' and end up with very strange outliers, or you can just accept, as historians do, that overarching classifications aren't worth the trouble and that it's just damn complicated.

And on "Muslim Spain", that's just plain lazy. I don't know the details, but the whole region was covered in semi-independent successor states to the Ummayad Caliphate from the 11th C onwards. They were often more interested in fighting each other rather than the Christians up north, which is why they were all conquered in the end.

/curious to know how they identified the moment at which each HRE state became independent
 
2013-09-16 09:59:18 AM  

Cubicle Jockey: Seth'n'Spectrum: Or play Paradox Interactive games and have a lot more fun.

Hah! I came to post something about Crusader Kings 2, but I see my work here is done.


And I, a post about Europa Universalis IV.
 
2013-09-16 10:12:01 AM  

Galloping Galoshes: Hey, that's great.  Apparently the russians didn't repel the german invasion until 1950.  Hey, who knew?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRM5Ceu4zEA


smaller geographical area, but more accurate at least with regards to WW2
 
2013-09-16 10:56:17 AM  
Jūs benkartai!
 
2013-09-16 12:08:52 PM  

ApeShaft: Northern part of Europe is missing - so the map sucks.


Then watch the original YT version Live Leak stole.
 
2013-09-16 01:02:51 PM  

lohphat: ApeShaft: Northern part of Europe is missing - so the map sucks.

Then watch the original YT version Live Leak stole.


Thank you. Much better!
 
2013-09-16 01:25:03 PM  
Boy the Roman Empire sure got out of hand fast. It just shattered like tempered glass. what a cluster F.
 
2013-09-16 02:18:43 PM  
Man, those Irish are tenacious.
 
2013-09-16 03:08:58 PM  
Those plucky Latvians sure had to wait a long time.
 
2013-09-17 01:35:59 AM  

slothbuddy: Man, those Irish are tenacious.


I'll raise a glass to that
 
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