If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Reuters)   What's a Grecian Urn? These days, apparently not much   (reuters.com) divider line 31
    More: Followup, collapse of the Soviet Union, net investment  
•       •       •

1455 clicks; posted to Business » on 14 Sep 2013 at 11:28 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



31 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-09-14 07:37:09 AM  
Don't worry, they make up for it with blatant Thebery.

/Rimshot
 
2013-09-14 07:45:28 AM  
Indeed.

/laconic
 
2013-09-14 11:38:14 AM  
farm3.staticflickr.com

"One Grecian urn...two Grecian urns...and a fountain!"
 
2013-09-14 11:44:14 AM  
But I've been assured by the GOP that the only way to improve the economy is by cutting spending, could it be possible that austerity really isn't the way forward?
 
2013-09-14 11:45:35 AM  
Meanwhile, government workers are threatening to strike because the ones that "work at a computer" more than 5 hours a day are going to lose the extra 6 days off each year that they've been getting in compensation. They ought to be overjoyed that they even have a damned job, much less one that puts them in an office instead of sweating their asses off out in the field.
 
2013-09-14 11:50:38 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: But I've been assured by the GOP that the only way to improve the economy is by cutting spending, could it be possible that austerity really isn't the way forward?


We've been doing the exact opposite and are the results what you think they should be? Or are you in the camp that says we're STILL not spending enough? Right now, we're creating a lost generation of young people who can't get a decent job and that's causing all kinds of knock-on effects like delaying marriage and family, continued dependency on parents, inability to advance in a career, etc. Is that your template of success?
 
2013-09-14 11:57:06 AM  

jjorsett: TuteTibiImperes: But I've been assured by the GOP that the only way to improve the economy is by cutting spending, could it be possible that austerity really isn't the way forward?

We've been doing the exact opposite and are the results what you think they should be? Or are you in the camp that says we're STILL not spending enough? Right now, we're creating a lost generation of young people who can't get a decent job and that's causing all kinds of knock-on effects like delaying marriage and family, continued dependency on parents, inability to advance in a career, etc. Is that your template of success?


Yes.

The stimulus package wasn't executed perfectly, and a lot of the money went to the wrong places, but it did have plenty of positive effects.  It also didn't go nearly far enough.  We should be pouring money into the economy until it improves with infrastructure projects, student loan assistance, direct hiring into government agencies, etc.

The GOP has blocked any meaningful stimulus spending since the big initial push.  You can't blame a plan for not working when it was cut off before it could be completed.
 
2013-09-14 11:59:10 AM  
Q: What's a Grecian urn?
A: About the same as a Henway
 
2013-09-14 12:10:20 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: jjorsett: TuteTibiImperes: But I've been assured by the GOP that the only way to improve the economy is by cutting spending, could it be possible that austerity really isn't the way forward?

We've been doing the exact opposite and are the results what you think they should be? Or are you in the camp that says we're STILL not spending enough? Right now, we're creating a lost generation of young people who can't get a decent job and that's causing all kinds of knock-on effects like delaying marriage and family, continued dependency on parents, inability to advance in a career, etc. Is that your template of success?

Yes.

The stimulus package wasn't executed perfectly, and a lot of the money went to the wrong places, but it did have plenty of positive effects.  It also didn't go nearly far enough.  We should be pouring money into the economy until it improves with infrastructure projects, student loan assistance, direct hiring into government agencies, etc.

The GOP has blocked any meaningful stimulus spending since the big initial push.  You can't blame a plan for not working when it was cut off before it could be completed.


$3 trillion wasn't enough?
 
2013-09-14 12:12:38 PM  
Reality hits you hard, bro.

If you have a government that fails to collect enough tax to cover its spending at a rate beyond growth, eventually that's going to stop working for you.

Eventually, you're going to have to cut that spending, and with it, jobs. And a lot of private sector companies won't hire former public sector employees.
 
2013-09-14 12:41:43 PM  

mcreadyblue: TuteTibiImperes: jjorsett: TuteTibiImperes: But I've been assured by the GOP that the only way to improve the economy is by cutting spending, could it be possible that austerity really isn't the way forward?

We've been doing the exact opposite and are the results what you think they should be? Or are you in the camp that says we're STILL not spending enough? Right now, we're creating a lost generation of young people who can't get a decent job and that's causing all kinds of knock-on effects like delaying marriage and family, continued dependency on parents, inability to advance in a career, etc. Is that your template of success?

Yes.

The stimulus package wasn't executed perfectly, and a lot of the money went to the wrong places, but it did have plenty of positive effects.  It also didn't go nearly far enough.  We should be pouring money into the economy until it improves with infrastructure projects, student loan assistance, direct hiring into government agencies, etc.

The GOP has blocked any meaningful stimulus spending since the big initial push.  You can't blame a plan for not working when it was cut off before it could be completed.

$3 trillion wasn't enough?


Nope, especially since a lot of that money went to bail out the banks, which while necessary to prevent  a worse economic collapse, didn't do a lot to directly help average citizens.

Krugman's economic analysis is usually spot-on - when the economy is in the toilet, that's the best time to spend.  Pour money into more infrastructure projects to get more people working, pour money into student loan forgiveness incentive programs to get people working in fields that the country needs while helping them ease their debt burden, pour money into government agencies so that they can hire more people to provide needed services while also getting people working, etc.

The more people work, the more people will spend, which will give more businesses added income, so that they can hire and spend more, and the entire economy, as well as the tax base and GDP, will grow to offset the effects of that spending.

The deficit and national debt aren't that important right now.  When the economy is booming we can take a look at cutting spending to help pay it down, but now is the time to spend.
 
2013-09-14 12:52:29 PM  

1.bp.blogspot.comTuteTibiImperes: mcreadyblue: TuteTibiImperes: jjorsett: TuteTibiImperes: But I've been assured by the GOP that the only way to improve the economy is by cutting spending, could it be possible that austerity really isn't the way forward? We've been doing the exact opposite and are the results what you think they should be? Or are you in the camp that says we're STILL not spending enough? Right now, we're creating a lost generation of young people who can't get a decent job and that's causing all kinds of knock-on effects like delaying marriage and family, continued dependency on parents, inability to advance in a career, etc. Is that your template of success? Yes. The stimulus package wasn't executed perfectly, and a lot of the money went to the wrong places, but it did have plenty of positive effects.  It also didn't go nearly far enough.  We should be pouring money into the economy until it improves with infrastructure projects, student loan assistance, direct hiring into government agencies, etc. The GOP has blocked any meaningful stimulus spending since the big initial push.  You can't blame a plan for not working when it was cut off before it could be completed. $3 trillion wasn't enough? Nope, especially since a lot of that money went to bail out the banks, which while necessary to prevent  a worse economic collapse, didn't do a lot to directly help average citizens. Krugman's economic analysis is usually spot-on - when the economy is in the toilet, that's the best time to spend.  Pour money into more infrastructure projects to get more people working, pour money into student loan forgiveness incentive programs to get people working in fields that the country needs while helping them ease their debt burden, pour money into government agencies so that they can hire more people to provide needed services while also getting people working, etc. The more people work, the more people will spend, which will give more businesses added income, so that they can hire and spend m ...

That all works great up until the time when people and foreign governments stop buying US Treasury Bonds and other debt instruments. At that point, interest rates paid on US debt will have to raise and everything blows up. It will happen very quickly. We are 3-4 years away from interest rates going up.
 
2013-09-14 12:58:27 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Krugman's economic analysis is usually spot-on - when the economy is in the toilet, that's the best time to spend.


The reason that Greece got into so much economic in the first place was because of excessive government spending that doesn't seem to have done them much good, so why would more of it be a good idea?
 
2013-09-14 01:05:43 PM  

farkeruk: TuteTibiImperes: Krugman's economic analysis is usually spot-on - when the economy is in the toilet, that's the best time to spend.

The reason that Greece got into so much economic in the first place was because of excessive government spending that doesn't seem to have done them much good, so why would more of it be a good idea?


The Greek economy is not analogous to the US economy.  Our tax structure, while imperfect and in need of a revamp, brings in considerably more revenue, we have a much broader economic and industrial base, and perhaps most importantly we control our own currency while Greece does not control the Euro.

HempHead:
That all works great up until the time when people and foreign governments stop buying US Treasury Bonds and other debt instruments. At that point, interest rates paid on US debt will have to raise and everything blows up. It will happen very quickly. We are 3-4 years away from interest rates going up.

Yes, interest rates will eventually have to rise, but the pure numerical amount of our debt is irrelevant.  What matters is the ratio of the debt to our income and GDP.  If we spend more now we can grow the economy faster so that both our income (tax base) and GDP improve, offsetting the costs of that spending and reducing the ratio of income and GDP to debt at the same time.
 
2013-09-14 01:18:45 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: The Greek economy is not analogous to the US economy.  Our tax structure, while imperfect and in need of a revamp, brings in considerably more revenue, we have a much broader economic and industrial base, and perhaps most importantly we control our own currency while Greece does not control the Euro.


Your assertion was that the best thing when an economy is in the toilet is to spend. Your points don't affect that.
 
2013-09-14 01:22:32 PM  

farkeruk: TuteTibiImperes: The Greek economy is not analogous to the US economy.  Our tax structure, while imperfect and in need of a revamp, brings in considerably more revenue, we have a much broader economic and industrial base, and perhaps most importantly we control our own currency while Greece does not control the Euro.

Your assertion was that the best thing when an economy is in the toilet is to spend. Your points don't affect that.


Yes they do.  Greece would have been far better off spending more to develop and diversify their economy and get people working and spending. They just don't have the same capability to do that as we do.

I'll admit Greece has other issues that need to be addressed, which is why I mentioned those as well
 
2013-09-14 01:22:43 PM  

jjorsett: TuteTibiImperes: But I've been assured by the GOP that the only way to improve the economy is by cutting spending, could it be possible that austerity really isn't the way forward?

We've been doing the exact opposite and are the results what you think they should be? Or are you in the camp that says we're STILL not spending enough? Right now, we're creating a lost generation of young people who can't get a decent job and that's causing all kinds of knock-on effects like delaying marriage and family, continued dependency on parents, inability to advance in a career, etc. Is that your template of success?


That isn't a government spending or cutting problem.  That is because corporations are being allowed to loot the entire economy.  Record profits and demand every single quarter yet companies are cutting jobs and funneling profits to executives and shareholders.  You know why?  Because the government hasn't gone after the TRILLIONS of dollars in idle cash sitting in corporate coffers.  If you give them the choice of spend it on their companies or give it to the government, they will spend it and all of the items you bring up will begin to recover.
 
2013-09-14 01:26:52 PM  
Greeks need to take advantage of the EU and mass emigrate to other countries, lile Germany and Brittain. Their government should spend their last dimes advocating mass emigration
 
2013-09-14 01:55:13 PM  
anyone else who thinks that economically following the Grecian formula is sound will really color the argument in a negative way.
 
2013-09-14 02:15:11 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: jjorsett: TuteTibiImperes: But I've been assured by the GOP that the only way to improve the economy is by cutting spending, could it be possible that austerity really isn't the way forward?

We've been doing the exact opposite and are the results what you think they should be? Or are you in the camp that says we're STILL not spending enough? Right now, we're creating a lost generation of young people who can't get a decent job and that's causing all kinds of knock-on effects like delaying marriage and family, continued dependency on parents, inability to advance in a career, etc. Is that your template of success?

Yes.

The stimulus package wasn't executed perfectly, and a lot of the money went to the wrong places, but it did have plenty of positive effects.  It also didn't go nearly far enough.  We should be pouring money into the economy until it improves with infrastructure projects, student loan assistance, direct hiring into government agencies, etc.

The GOP has blocked any meaningful stimulus spending since the big initial push.  You can't blame a plan for not working when it was cut off before it could be completed.


the stimulus was also not all spending either. just over 35% of the stimulus package consisted of various tax cuts, including the payroll tax cut.
 
2013-09-14 03:38:04 PM  
Ode, the humanity!
 
2013-09-14 04:25:29 PM  
On the opposing page in my English book wasm

Ode to a NightingaleMY heart aches, and a drowsy numbness pains  My sense, as though of hemlock I had drunk,Or emptied some dull opiate to the drains  One minute past, and Lethe-wards had sunk:'Tis not through envy of thy happy lot,         5  But being too happy in thine happiness,    That thou, light-wingèd Dryad of the trees,          In some melodious plot  Of beechen green, and shadows numberless,    Singest of summer in full-throated ease.  10O for a draught of vintage! that hath been  Cool'd a long age in the deep-delvèd earth,Tasting of Flora and the country-green,  Dance, and Provençal song, and sunburnt mirth!O for a beaker full of the warm South!  15  Full of the true, the blushful Hippocrene,    With beaded bubbles winking at the brim,          And purple-stainèd mouth;  That I might drink, and leave the world unseen,    And with thee fade away into the forest dim:  20Fade far away, dissolve, and quite forget  What thou among the leaves hast never known,The weariness, the fever, and the fret  Here, where men sit and hear each other groan;Where palsy shakes a few, sad, last grey hairs,  25  Where youth grows pale, and spectre-thin, and dies;    Where but to think is to be full of sorrow          And leaden-eyed despairs;  Where beauty cannot keep her lustrous eyes,    Or new Love pine at them beyond to-morrow.  30Away! away! for I will fly to thee,  Not charioted by Bacchus and his pards,But on the viewless wings of Poesy,  Though the dull brain perplexes and retards:Already with thee! tender is the night,  35  And haply the Queen-Moon is on her throne,    Cluster'd around by all her starry Fays          But here there is no light,  Save what from heaven is with the breezes blown    Through verdurous glooms and winding mossy ways.  40I cannot see what flowers are at my feet,  Nor what soft incense hangs upon the boughs,But, in embalmèd darkness, guess each sweet  Wherewith the seasonable month endowsThe grass, the thicket, and the fruit-tree wild;  45  White hawthorn, and the pastoral eglantine;    Fast-fading violets cover'd up in leaves;          And mid-May's eldest child,  The coming musk-rose, full of dewy wine,    The murmurous haunt of flies on summer eves.  50Darkling I listen; and, for many a time  I have been half in love with easeful Death,Call'd him soft names in many a musèd rhyme,  To take into the air my quiet breath;Now more than ever seems it rich to die,  55  To cease upon the midnight with no pain,    While thou art pouring forth thy soul abroad          In such an ecstasy!  Still wouldst thou sing, and I have ears in vain-    To thy high requiem become a sod.  60Thou wast not born for death, immortal Bird!  No hungry generations tread thee down;The voice I hear this passing night was heard  In ancient days by emperor and clown:Perhaps the self-same song that found a path  65  Through the sad heart of Ruth, when, sick for home,    She stood in tears amid the alien corn;          The same that ofttimes hath  Charm'd magic casements, opening on the foam    Of perilous seas, in faery lands forlorn.  70Forlorn! the very word is like a bell  To toll me back from thee to my sole self!Adieu! the fancy cannot cheat so well  As she is famed to do, deceiving elf.Adieu! adieu! thy plaintive anthem fades  75  Past the near meadows, over the still stream,    Up the hill-side; and now 'tis buried deep          In the next valley-glades:  Was it a vision, or a waking dream?    Fled is that music:-do I wake or sleep?
 
2013-09-14 04:33:12 PM  

offmymeds: Q: What's a Grecian urn?
A: About the same as a Henway


What's a Henway?
 
2013-09-14 06:16:31 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: farkeruk: TuteTibiImperes: Krugman's economic analysis is usually spot-on - when the economy is in the toilet, that's the best time to spend.

The reason that Greece got into so much economic in the first place was because of excessive government spending that doesn't seem to have done them much good, so why would more of it be a good idea?

The Greek economy is not analogous to the US economy.  Our tax structure, while imperfect and in need of a revamp, brings in considerably more revenue, we have a much broader economic and industrial base, and perhaps most importantly we control our own currency while Greece does not control the Euro.

HempHead:
That all works great up until the time when people and foreign governments stop buying US Treasury Bonds and other debt instruments. At that point, interest rates paid on US debt will have to raise and everything blows up. It will happen very quickly. We are 3-4 years away from interest rates going up.

Yes, interest rates will eventually have to rise, but the pure numerical amount of our debt is irrelevant.  What matters is the ratio of the debt to our income and GDP.  If we spend more now we can grow the economy faster so that both our income (tax base) and GDP improve, offsetting the costs of that spending and reducing the ratio of income and GDP to debt at the same time.




thumbnails.visually.netdna-cdn.com
Debt now equals GDP.

We got out of the previous time debt exceeded GDP because Europe/Japan was destroyed in WWII.

This time, we will get out of it by _________________________*.

*insert solution that will be agreed upon by Republicans/Democrats/TeaParty politicians.
 
2013-09-14 11:28:45 PM  
Was that 1,307% for Ireland a typo? Or was it meant to be 130.7% (that I can believe)
 
2013-09-15 01:14:00 AM  
notmtwain: 

"One Grecian urn...two Grecian urns...and a fountain!"

"trickle, trickle, trickle, trickle..."


Which is precisely the economic theory in effect these days.
 
2013-09-15 08:57:12 AM  

stpickrell: Was that 1,307% for Ireland a typo? Or was it meant to be 130.7% (that I can believe)


UK is also obviously wrong - should be slightly under the USA figure.  And talking of the USA figure, why'd it change from 100.8% to 95.4%?

3 egregious errors = I can't even be bothered figuring out if the rest of it is accurate, I'm going to assume it's all completely fabricated.
 
2013-09-15 11:03:08 AM  

LiquidSky: stpickrell: Was that 1,307% for Ireland a typo? Or was it meant to be 130.7% (that I can believe)

UK is also obviously wrong - should be slightly under the USA figure.  And talking of the USA figure, why'd it change from 100.8% to 95.4%?

3 egregious errors = I can't even be bothered figuring out if the rest of it is accurate, I'm going to assume it's all completely fabricated.


at first I thought it was  comparing the national debt of the US to the GDP of other countries, to give a sense of how large the US Debt level is.

but that calculation doesn't work either.
 
2013-09-15 01:47:46 PM  

HempHead: We are 3-4 years away from interest rates going up.


Wow really, Nostradamus? You mean you're predicting that rates will go up over the next few years after historic lows? Way to go out on a limb there!
 
2013-09-15 05:49:07 PM  

LiquidSky: stpickrell: Was that 1,307% for Ireland a typo? Or was it meant to be 130.7% (that I can believe)

UK is also obviously wrong - should be slightly under the USA figure.  And talking of the USA figure, why'd it change from 100.8% to 95.4%?

3 egregious errors = I can't even be bothered figuring out if the rest of it is accurate, I'm going to assume it's all completely fabricated.




100.8% is estimated for 2012.

Ireland really is that much in debt.
 
2013-09-15 06:38:19 PM  

HempHead: Ireland really is that much in debt.


Impossible...their business-friendly, dirt-low corporate tax rate must have filled their coffers with virtually limitless funds!
 
Displayed 31 of 31 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report