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(Natural News)   Arkansas decides it's okay for citizens to suck on a tit not owned by the federal government   (naturalnews.com) divider line 130
    More: Spiffy, Arkansas, federal government, Mike Beebe, legal defense fund, farms  
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3187 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Sep 2013 at 10:09 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



130 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-14 05:48:06 PM  

dahmers love zombie: I have absolutely no problem with this.  Provided that everybody drinking the raw milk has full insurance coverage, of course.  Otherwise, they should change the law to state that the EMTALA regs don't count for anyone who drinks raw milk and shows up uninsured at a healthcare facility suffering from Campylobacter, e Coli, Salmonella, Shigella, Yersinia, Norovirus, Brucella, or Listeria.  Free treatment should be a barf bag and a porta-potti, and an educational flyer on why raw milk actually isn't the miracle drug that kook woo-science sites like Natural News make it out to be.


So basically the warning message on every white castle bag
 
2013-09-14 06:02:57 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: notto: TuteTibiImperes:
Food products that are made with natural microorganisms are oftentimes tastier - sourdough vs regular white bread, Lambic or Gueuze beer vs brews made with commericial yeast, fermented sauerkraut vs the stuff made mostly with vinegar, etc.

How is commercial yeast not a 'natural microrganism'?

OK, 'wild' instead of natural.


Why is "wild" better? All commercial yeasts were wild at one point. Brewers isolate yeast strains to better control the flavored imparted by the yeast.

When relying on "wild" yeast, many more organisms can get in the beer than are desired. The tart flavor imparted by bacterial infection in lambics are often complimented with the sweetness of fruit. A blonde ale left to spontaneous ferment would be undrinkable.
 
2013-09-14 06:21:27 PM  

paygun: These people selling raw milk should be put in prison.  Also, we should legalize drugs.


I say, it should be one or the other.

Barring marijuana, which barely qualifies under the term "theraputic drug" and is milder than alcohol. Assume I'm not talking about that.

If raw milk is legal, heroin and meth should be legal. There is no reason to outlaw any of them except to protect public health. Raw milk will result in more preventable, communicable diseases ravaging otherwise healthy populations - this is why we pasteurize milk. Meth and Heroin, at least, don't create communicable disease risks, just risks for the users. Of course, there is the negligible population infected with discarded used needles, but that's like single-digit worldwide per year at best.

I challenge anyone to give me an argument as to why raw milk should be legal but not meth.
 
2013-09-14 06:24:03 PM  

qorkfiend: buzzcut73: Lenny_da_Hog: notto: "Natural News" would praise the government or state outlawing GMO.  That is one of the many hypocrisies and reasoning fallacies they exhibit in their anti-scientific fanaticism.

I ran into a formerly bright 20-year-old girl a couple of weeks ago at a little tea shop in my neighborhood, ranting about gluten. I hadn't seen her in a year or so, and she'd fallen in with the anti-science crowd through her church in that year.

She explained that gluten is bad for everyone, because it's genetically modified gluten! Gluten causes autism and prevents you from absorbing natural nutrients!

I pointed out that there is no current crop of genetically modified wheat on the market, that wheat was one of the first agricultural products, and that very few people have any problem ingesting gluten. She picked up her iPad and went to Natural News to bolster her points.

I chortled at Natural News. She said, "YOU'D BETTER WATCH IT! I'm studying to be a Naturopath!"

I told her she'd better get used to the ridicule.

I had somebody in my General Chem II class last year that was studying to be a Naturopath. After seeing her understanding of even basic concepts, I'm even more convinced that science isn't their strong point.

What the fark is a naturopath?


Like a psychopath, except they display an overwhelming preference for killing children by making them take unnecessary health risks.
 
2013-09-14 06:25:43 PM  

max_pooper: TuteTibiImperes: notto: TuteTibiImperes:
Food products that are made with natural microorganisms are oftentimes tastier - sourdough vs regular white bread, Lambic or Gueuze beer vs brews made with commericial yeast, fermented sauerkraut vs the stuff made mostly with vinegar, etc.

How is commercial yeast not a 'natural microrganism'?

OK, 'wild' instead of natural.

Why is "wild" better? All commercial yeasts were wild at one point. Brewers isolate yeast strains to better control the flavored imparted by the yeast.

When relying on "wild" yeast, many more organisms can get in the beer than are desired. The tart flavor imparted by bacterial infection in lambics are often complimented with the sweetness of fruit. A blonde ale left to spontaneous ferment would be undrinkable.


I enjoy the sour tart flavors of lambics, even those that don't contain fruit to sweeten them.  Of course, it's a niche style, and the far more predictable beers brewed with carefully controlled commercial yeasts are certainly more popular.  More popular doesn't mean more interesting, or even better, however.  It's like stopping for dinner on a road trip - do you go with the Cracker Barrel right at the exit that's a known quantity, or take a side road a bit and find a local joint that might be a lot better, at the risk of going somewhere that might end up being a lot worse.  I like to roll the dice in those situations.
 
2013-09-14 06:26:42 PM  

max_pooper: TuteTibiImperes: notto: TuteTibiImperes:
Food products that are made with natural microorganisms are oftentimes tastier - sourdough vs regular white bread, Lambic or Gueuze beer vs brews made with commericial yeast, fermented sauerkraut vs the stuff made mostly with vinegar, etc.

How is commercial yeast not a 'natural microrganism'?

OK, 'wild' instead of natural.

Why is "wild" better? All commercial yeasts were wild at one point. Brewers isolate yeast strains to better control the flavored imparted by the yeast.

When relying on "wild" yeast, many more organisms can get in the beer than are desired. The tart flavor imparted by bacterial infection in lambics are often complimented with the sweetness of fruit. A blonde ale left to spontaneous ferment would be undrinkable.


Anyone who thinks "natural" or "wild" means the same as "healthy" should eat a fistful of hemlock.
 
2013-09-14 06:27:56 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: max_pooper: TuteTibiImperes: notto: TuteTibiImperes:
Food products that are made with natural microorganisms are oftentimes tastier - sourdough vs regular white bread, Lambic or Gueuze beer vs brews made with commericial yeast, fermented sauerkraut vs the stuff made mostly with vinegar, etc.

How is commercial yeast not a 'natural microrganism'?

OK, 'wild' instead of natural.

Why is "wild" better? All commercial yeasts were wild at one point. Brewers isolate yeast strains to better control the flavored imparted by the yeast.

When relying on "wild" yeast, many more organisms can get in the beer than are desired. The tart flavor imparted by bacterial infection in lambics are often complimented with the sweetness of fruit. A blonde ale left to spontaneous ferment would be undrinkable.

I enjoy the sour tart flavors of lambics, even those that don't contain fruit to sweeten them.  Of course, it's a niche style, and the far more predictable beers brewed with carefully controlled commercial yeasts are certainly more popular.  More popular doesn't mean more interesting, or even better, however.  It's like stopping for dinner on a road trip - do you go with the Cracker Barrel right at the exit that's a known quantity, or take a side road a bit and find a local joint that might be a lot better, at the risk of going somewhere that might end up being a lot worse.  I like to roll the dice in those situations.


Rolling the dice when it comes to which group of billions of microorganisms ferment your beer is profoundly stupid.
 
2013-09-14 06:30:53 PM  

LavenderWolf: qorkfiend: buzzcut73: Lenny_da_Hog: notto: "Natural News" would praise the government or state outlawing GMO.  That is one of the many hypocrisies and reasoning fallacies they exhibit in their anti-scientific fanaticism.

I ran into a formerly bright 20-year-old girl a couple of weeks ago at a little tea shop in my neighborhood, ranting about gluten. I hadn't seen her in a year or so, and she'd fallen in with the anti-science crowd through her church in that year.

She explained that gluten is bad for everyone, because it's genetically modified gluten! Gluten causes autism and prevents you from absorbing natural nutrients!

I pointed out that there is no current crop of genetically modified wheat on the market, that wheat was one of the first agricultural products, and that very few people have any problem ingesting gluten. She picked up her iPad and went to Natural News to bolster her points.

I chortled at Natural News. She said, "YOU'D BETTER WATCH IT! I'm studying to be a Naturopath!"

I told her she'd better get used to the ridicule.

I had somebody in my General Chem II class last year that was studying to be a Naturopath. After seeing her understanding of even basic concepts, I'm even more convinced that science isn't their strong point.

What the fark is a naturopath?

Like a psychopath, except they display an overwhelming preference for killing children by making them take unnecessary health risks.



What about the third approach of setting up licensed centers to dispense to a very limited number of people who won't be dissuaded from getting it any ways, this way they can be delivered in a safe manner that will result in fewer emergencies to spend money and time on?
 
2013-09-14 06:31:47 PM  
LavenderWolf

Bah, I meant to quote your previous post.
 
2013-09-14 06:36:08 PM  
Citris:
What about the third approach of setting up licensed centers to dispense to a very limited number of people who won't be dissuaded from getting it any ways, this way they can be delivered in a safe manner that will result in fewer emergencies to spend money and time on?

That's not really a third option, that's exactly what I mean. Legalization of either substance can't really be done by just allowing people to sell drugs/raw milk to whomever they want with no oversight. Regular pasteurized milk can't even be sold that way - there are health inspectors, etc.
 
2013-09-14 06:41:00 PM  
LavenderWolf:
That's not really a third option, that's exactly what I mean. Legalization of either substance can't really be done by just allowing people to sell drugs/raw milk to whomever they want with no oversight. Regular pasteurized milk can't even be sold that way - there are health inspectors, etc.

Then we are on the same page then.  But people will try the easy way and just openly legalize because they are either lazy or naive or ignorant. etc.
 
2013-09-14 06:44:50 PM  

LavenderWolf: TuteTibiImperes: max_pooper: TuteTibiImperes: notto: TuteTibiImperes:
Food products that are made with natural microorganisms are oftentimes tastier - sourdough vs regular white bread, Lambic or Gueuze beer vs brews made with commericial yeast, fermented sauerkraut vs the stuff made mostly with vinegar, etc.

How is commercial yeast not a 'natural microrganism'?

OK, 'wild' instead of natural.

Why is "wild" better? All commercial yeasts were wild at one point. Brewers isolate yeast strains to better control the flavored imparted by the yeast.

When relying on "wild" yeast, many more organisms can get in the beer than are desired. The tart flavor imparted by bacterial infection in lambics are often complimented with the sweetness of fruit. A blonde ale left to spontaneous ferment would be undrinkable.

I enjoy the sour tart flavors of lambics, even those that don't contain fruit to sweeten them.  Of course, it's a niche style, and the far more predictable beers brewed with carefully controlled commercial yeasts are certainly more popular.  More popular doesn't mean more interesting, or even better, however.  It's like stopping for dinner on a road trip - do you go with the Cracker Barrel right at the exit that's a known quantity, or take a side road a bit and find a local joint that might be a lot better, at the risk of going somewhere that might end up being a lot worse.  I like to roll the dice in those situations.

Rolling the dice when it comes to which group of billions of microorganisms ferment your beer is profoundly stupid.


Not really, the alcohol content will kill them for the most part before you drink it, and the really bad ones never make it to bottle.
 
2013-09-14 06:47:41 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: LavenderWolf: TuteTibiImperes: max_pooper: TuteTibiImperes: notto: TuteTibiImperes:
Food products that are made with natural microorganisms are oftentimes tastier - sourdough vs regular white bread, Lambic or Gueuze beer vs brews made with commericial yeast, fermented sauerkraut vs the stuff made mostly with vinegar, etc.

How is commercial yeast not a 'natural microrganism'?

OK, 'wild' instead of natural.

Why is "wild" better? All commercial yeasts were wild at one point. Brewers isolate yeast strains to better control the flavored imparted by the yeast.

When relying on "wild" yeast, many more organisms can get in the beer than are desired. The tart flavor imparted by bacterial infection in lambics are often complimented with the sweetness of fruit. A blonde ale left to spontaneous ferment would be undrinkable.

I enjoy the sour tart flavors of lambics, even those that don't contain fruit to sweeten them.  Of course, it's a niche style, and the far more predictable beers brewed with carefully controlled commercial yeasts are certainly more popular.  More popular doesn't mean more interesting, or even better, however.  It's like stopping for dinner on a road trip - do you go with the Cracker Barrel right at the exit that's a known quantity, or take a side road a bit and find a local joint that might be a lot better, at the risk of going somewhere that might end up being a lot worse.  I like to roll the dice in those situations.

Rolling the dice when it comes to which group of billions of microorganisms ferment your beer is profoundly stupid.

Not really, the alcohol content will kill them for the most part before you drink it, and the really bad ones never make it to bottle.


Well, I'll bow to someone who appears to have superior beer knowledge; I am not a beer guy.
 
2013-09-14 06:49:05 PM  

Citris: LavenderWolf:
That's not really a third option, that's exactly what I mean. Legalization of either substance can't really be done by just allowing people to sell drugs/raw milk to whomever they want with no oversight. Regular pasteurized milk can't even be sold that way - there are health inspectors, etc.

Then we are on the same page then.  But people will try the easy way and just openly legalize because they are either lazy or naive or ignorant. etc.


Yep. That's exactly why the smarter dealers in California did everything they could to get their customers to vote against pot legalization. Up to and including giving away free weed for votes against legalization.
 
2013-09-14 07:09:41 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: max_pooper: TuteTibiImperes: notto: TuteTibiImperes:
Food products that are made with natural microorganisms are oftentimes tastier - sourdough vs regular white bread, Lambic or Gueuze beer vs brews made with commericial yeast, fermented sauerkraut vs the stuff made mostly with vinegar, etc.

How is commercial yeast not a 'natural microrganism'?

OK, 'wild' instead of natural.

Why is "wild" better? All commercial yeasts were wild at one point. Brewers isolate yeast strains to better control the flavored imparted by the yeast.

When relying on "wild" yeast, many more organisms can get in the beer than are desired. The tart flavor imparted by bacterial infection in lambics are often complimented with the sweetness of fruit. A blonde ale left to spontaneous ferment would be undrinkable.

I enjoy the sour tart flavors of lambics, even those that don't contain fruit to sweeten them.  Of course, it's a niche style, and the far more predictable beers brewed with carefully controlled commercial yeasts are certainly more popular.  More popular doesn't mean more interesting, or even better, however.  It's like stopping for dinner on a road trip - do you go with the Cracker Barrel right at the exit that's a known quantity, or take a side road a bit and find a local joint that might be a lot better, at the risk of going somewhere that might end up being a lot worse.  I like to roll the dice in those situations.


You show incredible ignorance of beer and the process for making it. There are only a small handful of breweries that use "wild yeast" spontaneous fermentation.

You could also wonder into the forest and just eat anything you see. It could be delicious arugula or just a bitter weed that looks the same. Do you make your salads with mystery greens or do buy them grown agricultural professionals who know exactly what plant they are producing?
 
2013-09-14 07:41:42 PM  

LavenderWolf: Citris: LavenderWolf:
That's not really a third option, that's exactly what I mean. Legalization of either substance can't really be done by just allowing people to sell drugs/raw milk to whomever they want with no oversight. Regular pasteurized milk can't even be sold that way - there are health inspectors, etc.

Then we are on the same page then.  But people will try the easy way and just openly legalize because they are either lazy or naive or ignorant. etc.

Yep. That's exactly why the smarter dealers in California did everything they could to get their customers to vote against pot legalization. Up to and including giving away free weed for votes against legalization.


Not surprising, I can only loosely predict what would happen here in NY if it ever went full legal and it borders on mild pandemonium.
 
2013-09-14 07:45:12 PM  

max_pooper: TuteTibiImperes: max_pooper: TuteTibiImperes: notto: TuteTibiImperes:
Food products that are made with natural microorganisms are oftentimes tastier - sourdough vs regular white bread, Lambic or Gueuze beer vs brews made with commericial yeast, fermented sauerkraut vs the stuff made mostly with vinegar, etc.

How is commercial yeast not a 'natural microrganism'?

OK, 'wild' instead of natural.

Why is "wild" better? All commercial yeasts were wild at one point. Brewers isolate yeast strains to better control the flavored imparted by the yeast.

When relying on "wild" yeast, many more organisms can get in the beer than are desired. The tart flavor imparted by bacterial infection in lambics are often complimented with the sweetness of fruit. A blonde ale left to spontaneous ferment would be undrinkable.

I enjoy the sour tart flavors of lambics, even those that don't contain fruit to sweeten them.  Of course, it's a niche style, and the far more predictable beers brewed with carefully controlled commercial yeasts are certainly more popular.  More popular doesn't mean more interesting, or even better, however.  It's like stopping for dinner on a road trip - do you go with the Cracker Barrel right at the exit that's a known quantity, or take a side road a bit and find a local joint that might be a lot better, at the risk of going somewhere that might end up being a lot worse.  I like to roll the dice in those situations.

You show incredible ignorance of beer and the process for making it. There are only a small handful of breweries that use "wild yeast" spontaneous fermentation.


Spontaneous wild yest fermentation is one of the defining characteristics of the Lambic style, if it doesn't use wild yeast, it isn't a lambic.
 
2013-09-14 07:54:15 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: max_pooper: TuteTibiImperes: max_pooper: TuteTibiImperes: notto: TuteTibiImperes:
Food products that are made with natural microorganisms are oftentimes tastier - sourdough vs regular white bread, Lambic or Gueuze beer vs brews made with commericial yeast, fermented sauerkraut vs the stuff made mostly with vinegar, etc.

How is commercial yeast not a 'natural microrganism'?

OK, 'wild' instead of natural.

Why is "wild" better? All commercial yeasts were wild at one point. Brewers isolate yeast strains to better control the flavored imparted by the yeast.

When relying on "wild" yeast, many more organisms can get in the beer than are desired. The tart flavor imparted by bacterial infection in lambics are often complimented with the sweetness of fruit. A blonde ale left to spontaneous ferment would be undrinkable.

I enjoy the sour tart flavors of lambics, even those that don't contain fruit to sweeten them.  Of course, it's a niche style, and the far more predictable beers brewed with carefully controlled commercial yeasts are certainly more popular.  More popular doesn't mean more interesting, or even better, however.  It's like stopping for dinner on a road trip - do you go with the Cracker Barrel right at the exit that's a known quantity, or take a side road a bit and find a local joint that might be a lot better, at the risk of going somewhere that might end up being a lot worse.  I like to roll the dice in those situations.

You show incredible ignorance of beer and the process for making it. There are only a small handful of breweries that use "wild yeast" spontaneous fermentation.

Spontaneous wild yest fermentation is one of the defining characteristics of the Lambic style, if it doesn't use wild yeast, it isn't a lambic.


True of traditional lambics which all Belgium lambics are. I should have said "lambic style" because Sam Adams makes a beer they call "lambic" that is not spontaneously fermented and therefor not a traditional lambic.

/lambic
 
2013-09-14 08:01:47 PM  
It seems we can all agree that weed infused naturally fermented raw milk is the way to go.
 
2013-09-14 08:04:07 PM  

max_pooper: TuteTibiImperes: max_pooper: TuteTibiImperes: max_pooper: TuteTibiImperes: notto: TuteTibiImperes:
Food products that are made with natural microorganisms are oftentimes tastier - sourdough vs regular white bread, Lambic or Gueuze beer vs brews made with commericial yeast, fermented sauerkraut vs the stuff made mostly with vinegar, etc.

How is commercial yeast not a 'natural microrganism'?

OK, 'wild' instead of natural.

Why is "wild" better? All commercial yeasts were wild at one point. Brewers isolate yeast strains to better control the flavored imparted by the yeast.

When relying on "wild" yeast, many more organisms can get in the beer than are desired. The tart flavor imparted by bacterial infection in lambics are often complimented with the sweetness of fruit. A blonde ale left to spontaneous ferment would be undrinkable.

I enjoy the sour tart flavors of lambics, even those that don't contain fruit to sweeten them.  Of course, it's a niche style, and the far more predictable beers brewed with carefully controlled commercial yeasts are certainly more popular.  More popular doesn't mean more interesting, or even better, however.  It's like stopping for dinner on a road trip - do you go with the Cracker Barrel right at the exit that's a known quantity, or take a side road a bit and find a local joint that might be a lot better, at the risk of going somewhere that might end up being a lot worse.  I like to roll the dice in those situations.

You show incredible ignorance of beer and the process for making it. There are only a small handful of breweries that use "wild yeast" spontaneous fermentation.

Spontaneous wild yest fermentation is one of the defining characteristics of the Lambic style, if it doesn't use wild yeast, it isn't a lambic.

True of traditional lambics which all Belgium lambics are. I should have said "lambic style" because Sam Adams makes a beer they call "lambic" that is not spontaneously fermented and therefor not a traditional lambic.

/la ...


Ah, fair enough, I didn't realize Sam Adams was trying to pass off a false lambic.  I usually stick to Lindemans because that's what I can find locally.  Their Cuvee Rene is excellent, though the fruit sweetened ones are nice for a chance of pace now and again as well.
 
2013-09-14 08:36:03 PM  

Citris: LavenderWolf: Citris: LavenderWolf:
That's not really a third option, that's exactly what I mean. Legalization of either substance can't really be done by just allowing people to sell drugs/raw milk to whomever they want with no oversight. Regular pasteurized milk can't even be sold that way - there are health inspectors, etc.

Then we are on the same page then.  But people will try the easy way and just openly legalize because they are either lazy or naive or ignorant. etc.

Yep. That's exactly why the smarter dealers in California did everything they could to get their customers to vote against pot legalization. Up to and including giving away free weed for votes against legalization.

Not surprising, I can only loosely predict what would happen here in NY if it ever went full legal and it borders on mild pandemonium.


If done right, it allows those experienced growers to go legitimate, while eliminating any unrelated criminal enterprise.

If done wrong, it just lets anyone grow and sell whatever weed they want, safe or not.
 
2013-09-14 10:10:48 PM  

qorkfiend: What the fark is a naturopath?


Short answer: a quack.
 
2013-09-14 10:41:40 PM  

AntiNerd: It is the factory farm methods that make sick milk which they then make "safe" by heating it.


...which is a singularly asinine statement to make, as we've been pasteurizing milk for decades (if not close to a century) before factory-farming became a thing.
 
2013-09-15 12:59:24 AM  
Sick milk?
 
2013-09-15 01:09:19 AM  
I thought for sure this headline would be about breast-feeding.  d'oh
 
2013-09-15 08:51:58 AM  
Big Business sucks on one tit while squeezing the other.  but its not Socialism.
 
2013-09-15 01:52:22 PM  

max_pooper: I would to be able to buy raw milk. I would make some kick ass homemade cheese.


I live in a state where raw milk is available from the grocery, and I dabble in cheese making. Unfortunately, around here raw milk is way too expensive and any cheese I made with it would wind up being very expensive. It would be much more expensive than purchasing a similar cheese.
 
2013-09-15 03:25:30 PM  
If any person who chooses this product gets sick or dies from it, there should be no lawsuits, no medical treatment other than an aspirin, and no sympathy. Let them suffer and perish, eliminating themselves from the gene pool as a warning to others that "because it tastes better" (debatable, but 'meh') is not a good reason to do something this stupid.

Just because something can be done doesn't mean that it should be done.
 
2013-09-15 05:36:48 PM  

rewind2846: If any person who chooses this product gets sick or dies from it, there should be no lawsuits, no medical treatment other than an aspirin, and no sympathy. Let them suffer and perish, eliminating themselves from the gene pool as a warning to others that "because it tastes better" (debatable, but 'meh') is not a good reason to do something this stupid.

Just because something can be done doesn't mean that it should be done.


Lead Acetate tastes pretty sweet. Ethylene glycol too. Both will kill you.
 
2013-09-15 06:17:41 PM  

LavenderWolf: Lead Acetate tastes pretty sweet. Ethylene glycol too. Both will kill you.


And which of these has farkall to do with the easy, simple and time tested method of preventing disease by pasteurization of milk and other products?

If you want to ride a motorcycle without a helmet, the EMTs shouldn't even come to scoop you up. Let your family get out there with shovels, big pieces of cardboard and buckets. Let's not even stop or divert traffic... perhaps weed a few more of your kin out of the pool.
If you want to jump off a cliff, the only thing local sheriffs should do is cordon off the area so that the animals can eat your carcass in peace.
If you want to drink unpasteurized milk, when you show up at the ER they should just put you on a bench outside over a drain so that you don't sh*t all over their waiting room floor as your guts come out at both ends before you die.

Actions have consequences, and if you choose not to take advantage of easily preventable damage to life, limb and health, then ya get what's coming to ya.
 
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