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(ESPN)   On Friday the 13th, NASCAR decides to make the Chase thirteen drivers strong. ITS STILL REAL TO ME DAMNIT   (espn.go.com) divider line 162
    More: Followup, NASCAR, Jeff Gordon, Mike Helton, David Gilliland, Joey Logano, Richmond International Raceway, Chase for the Sprint Cup, Michael Waltrip Racing  
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669 clicks; posted to Sports » on 13 Sep 2013 at 8:27 PM (30 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



162 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-13 09:46:51 PM
Man, if I had a nickle every time NASCAR changed the rules.
 
2013-09-13 09:48:10 PM

Sugarpuss O'Shea: Help a new fan out. Is it true that NASCAR doesn't have a published rule book? So they can pretty much make up the Chase rules as they go along? I can't imagine a similar situation in the NFL or MLB.


Three words: "Sean Avery Rule".
 
2013-09-13 09:48:40 PM

freak7: One team helped Logano, the other was helping themselves, which also helped Logano. If Joey doesn't get the help from the one team, he ties Gordon in points and still makes it in by holding the tiebreakers. He can't be penalized because MWR did something that also benefited him.


So Penske can cheat and won't get punished? Different intentions there...MWR wanted him in so Truex beats Newman. Penske wants him in for chase bonus...they were already a lock unless the car went totally tits up in the closing laps. Penske took advantage of what MWR gave to him as a side benefit and rigged the game further.
 
2013-09-13 09:49:27 PM

HamstersFromHell: NASCAR needs a rule book available to the public.


While there might not be an official copy you can purchase, the rules are available all over the internet.
 
2013-09-13 09:51:44 PM

HamstersFromHell: So Penske can cheat and won't get punished?


Even if you dock Joey for their cheating, he still ties Jeff and takes the tiebreaker.
 
2013-09-13 09:52:41 PM

freak7: HamstersFromHell: NASCAR needs a rule book available to the public.

While there might not be an official copy you can purchase, the rules are available all over the internet.


And the very last page says:

"Brian France can change any rule at any time for any reason to preserve the integrity of the sport"

I really supported the ruling they did on Monday because it seemed just. Today? This is just monkey poo fights at the zoo simulating a governing body
 
2013-09-13 09:53:07 PM

Sugarpuss O'Shea: Until Hamlin was fined, I thought that NASCAR drivers where more free to share their opinions than in other sports.Hamlin being fined earlier this year for expressing opinions on the new car was insane.


Big Bill put an end to that back when Richard Petty and friends tried to form a driver's union. France was threatening to pull the competition license of anyone who joined.
 
2013-09-13 09:53:36 PM

Tom_Slick: Sugarpuss O'Shea: I can't help but think that the drivers need a players union, independent of their teams.

Last time they tried that the Teamsters backed down.  Let's just say the France family has connections that wold make Don Corleone jealous.


Koch Brothers?

I suppose a "Quiz Show Scandal" revealing the kayfabe would never see light of day?

/cmon, Wikileaks...
 
2013-09-13 09:55:41 PM

clintster: Why is this in the Sports tab, again?


BECAUSE FARK YOU THATS WHY!

I *always* wanted to say that.
 
2013-09-13 09:56:57 PM
NASCAR Wonka @NASCAR_Wonka

Crossed flags signify halfway of a race as well as the hopes and dreams of NASCAR fans praying their driver will make the Chase tomorrow.
 
2013-09-13 09:57:57 PM

Sugarpuss O'Shea: I've been following NASCAR for about 4 years. Every sports fan want their teams and their team's competitors to be playing on the up-and-up. But what do you do when there are inconsistent rules and  a rule maker with absolute power? I guess until it hurts shareholders it doesn't matter.


There's the problem. NASCAR is a privately held monopoly, and guess which gamily has the majority in holdings?

Maybe that White House petition site should get one to the White House to ask Congress to dust off the Sherman Act and try it out on the Frances? (Much to my amusement, some idiot did file one there to ask Obama to intervene and force NASCAR put Gordon in the chase.)
.
 
2013-09-13 09:59:56 PM

HamstersFromHell: freak7: One team helped Logano, the other was helping themselves, which also helped Logano. If Joey doesn't get the help from the one team, he ties Gordon in points and still makes it in by holding the tiebreakers. He can't be penalized because MWR did something that also benefited him.

So Penske can cheat and won't get punished? Different intentions there...MWR wanted him in so Truex beats Newman. Penske wants him in for chase bonus...they were already a lock unless the car went totally tits up in the closing laps. Penske took advantage of what MWR gave to him as a side benefit and rigged the game further.


The main problem boils down to all these retards being so blatant about it.

They were discussing all of this over team radio that was being monitored by millions of viewers.

Imagine Tom Brady in the middle of a game saying "ya I'm going to over throw this ball by 10 yards so the Jets win and get the wild card playoff spot so we eliminate the Ravens" and it getting picked up by a sideline mic

People would go batshiat.

MWR didn't get raped for manipulating the chase. They got penalized for discussing it on 2 team radios and intentionally screwing the race.

Front Row basically did the same thing by discussing a payoff on national TV over their in car radio!

For future reference? Say "hey you got a tire going down! Pit now! Or "Let him pass you on the restart so you can get a better line into the turn"

See? If they would have said that no fines and none of this stupidity
 
2013-09-13 10:01:39 PM

HamstersFromHell: Sugarpuss O'Shea: Until Hamlin was fined, I thought that NASCAR drivers where more free to share their opinions than in other sports.Hamlin being fined earlier this year for expressing opinions on the new car was insane.

Big Bill put an end to that back when Richard Petty and friends tried to form a driver's union. France was threatening to pull the competition license of anyone who joined.


Maybe it's time for drivers to press for it, again. Are there fans of younger drivers to replace the aging Cup drivers who will understand this the lack of rules and consistency?
 
2013-09-13 10:02:13 PM

freak7: HamstersFromHell: So Penske can cheat and won't get punished?

Even if you dock Joey for their cheating, he still ties Jeff and takes the tiebreaker.


Nope. Dock Logano the same as all the MWR drivers and he's not only out of the chase, but Jamie McMurray is in on points.
 
2013-09-13 10:07:52 PM

HamstersFromHell: freak7: Nobody should be biatching about this, it's absolutely the right thing to do given the circumstances.

Actually, it's not.

Look at the facts:


My hero.  Where are you during the real time Cup threads?

I enjoy (nearly) every race.  I have no allegiance to any particular driver.  I knew what was going on last Saturday night but I saw it as masterful strategy, not cheating (except maybe Carl jumping the restart).  I expected this sort of thing since 2005.  I'm surprised it took this long.

Hell, backroom deal-making has been happening in the congress for 200 years.
 
2013-09-13 10:09:30 PM

Sugarpuss O'Shea: I guess until it hurts shareholders it doesn't matter.


NASCAR is a Privately held corporation, there are no shareholders outside of the family which is why they can do whatever the hell they want.

OtherLittleGuy: Koch Brothers?

I suppose a "Quiz Show Scandal" revealing the kayfabe would never see light of day?

/cmon, Wikileaks...


I think the Koch Brothers based their business dealings on the France family
 
2013-09-13 10:09:33 PM

HamstersFromHell: freak7: HamstersFromHell: So Penske can cheat and won't get punished?

Even if you dock Joey for their cheating, he still ties Jeff and takes the tiebreaker.

Nope. Dock Logano the same as all the MWR drivers and he's not only out of the chase, but Jamie McMurray is in on points.


All these scenarios make my head hurt.  Just have all of this resolved by a rousing game of "Rock, Paper, Scissors" for the last three spots.  It would be just as pointless and silly as the events of this week.
 
2013-09-13 10:12:23 PM

clintster: Why is this in the Sports tab, again?


img.fark.net

/yeah, the thread on Sunday should drag out wrestling memes
 
2013-09-13 10:13:58 PM
All I know is, I'm sitting here watching the truck race, trying to figure out what the hell has gone on this last week, and I'm out of wine. I need more. Those words have never been said in the history of the world, ever.
 
2013-09-13 10:14:45 PM

HamstersFromHell: Maybe that White House petition site should get one to the White House to ask Congress to dust off the Sherman Act and try it out on the Frances?


The problem with that is there are other National Race series, the defense would be "Don't like NASCAR go drive Indycar or NHRA."  It would hold up just like the Microsoft Anti-Trust case.
 
2013-09-13 10:16:08 PM
When someone is screwed, it doesn't really fix anything to punish the people who did the screwing and not fix things for whoever got screwed. After the various fark ups in various sports in recent years, it's actually nice to see someone, even NASCAR go "Someone got screwed, and we're unscrewing them". So the Chase is 13 cars instead of 12, hardly a problem.
 
2013-09-13 10:17:08 PM

bluorangefyre: yeah, the thread on Sunday should drag out wrestling memes


Blech.  Let's not.
 
2013-09-13 10:17:17 PM

HamstersFromHell: freak7: HamstersFromHell: So Penske can cheat and won't get punished?

Even if you dock Joey for their cheating, he still ties Jeff and takes the tiebreaker.

Nope. Dock Logano the same as all the MWR drivers and he's not only out of the chase, but Jamie McMurray is in on points.


MWR wasn't helping Logano, he shouldn't be penalized for their shenanigans.
 
2013-09-13 10:18:20 PM
If this level of butthurt continues, I'm hoping Joey wins the title.
 
2013-09-13 10:19:25 PM

Sugarpuss O'Shea: Maybe it's time for drivers to press for it, again. Are there fans of younger drivers to replace the aging Cup drivers who will understand this the lack of rules and consistency?


They'll never do it. The prima donna drivers nowdays haven't the balls to try. They'll keep smiling for the cameras, push their sponsor's products and not rock the boat, Simply because as it stands, the Frances own not only the bats and balls, but the ballparks as well.

The only way I see it ever happening is if either Congress steps in (anti-trust laws), or else some owner of a lot of tracks (who would gleefully take a chance to unseat the France's from their thrones) *cough* Bruton Smith *cough* got enough financial backers to offer a competing series.

As an aside, maybe the fact that ISC (the Frances) bought out/merged with Penske's track ownership company Penske Motorsports and gave Penske's son Gregory a board seat at ISC has something to do with NASCAR's hands off approach to this little Penske/Logano penalty deal.
 
2013-09-13 10:20:09 PM

vegaswench: bluorangefyre: yeah, the thread on Sunday should drag out wrestling memes

Blech.  Let's not.


Better than the diminutive equines?

\yes, I'm ducking...
 
2013-09-13 10:22:47 PM
Was going to make a Will Power sports entertained pic but found this which sums up everything nicely:

img.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-13 10:23:00 PM

technomuse: vegaswench: bluorangefyre: yeah, the thread on Sunday should drag out wrestling memes

Blech.  Let's not.

Better than the diminutive equines?

\yes, I'm ducking...


Haha!   I'd rather have ponies than rasslin', but don't tell the bronies I said that.
 
2013-09-13 10:24:14 PM

freak7: MWR wasn't helping Logano, he shouldn't be penalized for their shenanigans.


Right. He was helped by his own owner's shenanigans, so he should be docked likewise. Same crime, different criminal, should be same penalty.
 
2013-09-13 10:24:41 PM
Can someone explain to me what the big deal is about all of this? I'm an F1 fan and this whole situation sounds like typical team orders to me. So is it a "This is 'Murican racing!" situation or is there really a rule against team orders in NASCAR? Or was this not a case of team orders and there's something else I'm not seeing?
 
2013-09-13 10:26:04 PM

vegaswench: bluorangefyre: yeah, the thread on Sunday should drag out wrestling memes

Blech.  Let's not.


I was randomly throwing up big lebowski memes on Tuesday that were perfectly fitting....

Might dig then up Sunday...

Oh! Do you think Fox will dump
Waltrip as a broadcaster ?
 
2013-09-13 10:29:03 PM

vegaswench: technomuse: vegaswench: bluorangefyre: yeah, the thread on Sunday should drag out wrestling memes

Blech.  Let's not.

Better than the diminutive equines?

\yes, I'm ducking...

Haha!   I'd rather have ponies than rasslin', but don't tell the bronies I said that.


Oh God no!  Not ponies; then I'll have my little ones crawling all over me wanting daddy to find more.  But lately this sport is turning into the freakin' WWE, complete with a vanilla champion and a manufactured storyline.  But to Johnson's credit, he gamed the system AFTER the points were reset, not before it.
 
2013-09-13 10:29:25 PM
NASCAR Wonka @NASCAR_Wonka

If I had a nickel for every time NASCAR changed the Chase field, I'd own Sunoco.
 
2013-09-13 10:29:39 PM

HamstersFromHell: The only way I see it ever happening is if either Congress steps in (anti-trust laws), or else some owner of a lot of tracks (who would gleefully take a chance to unseat the France's from their thrones) *cough* Bruton Smith *cough* got enough financial backers to offer a competing series.


It's a privately-held enterprise. Antitrust doesn't apply. The closest anybody has ever come to challenging the France family was during the Ferko lawsuit, and the Frances still came out like champs. So they lost a few races, closed a few tracks... big deal. Racing got bigger than ever even without North Wilkesboro and Rockingham.

They own the sport, they own more than half of the tracks... if you want to play in their sandbox you play by their rules. Otherwise, go drive ARCA and be prepared to sit out any race on an ISC-owned track just for screwing with them.
 
2013-09-13 10:29:44 PM

smerfnablin: vegaswench: bluorangefyre: yeah, the thread on Sunday should drag out wrestling memes

Blech.  Let's not.

I was randomly throwing up big lebowski memes on Tuesday that were perfectly fitting....

Might dig then up Sunday...

Oh! Do you think Fox will dump
Waltrip as a broadcaster ?


Not a chance. Too much money wrapped up in his brother Darryl.
 
2013-09-13 10:30:08 PM

HamstersFromHell: freak7: MWR wasn't helping Logano, he shouldn't be penalized for their shenanigans.

Right. He was helped by his own owner's shenanigans, so he should be docked likewise. Same crime, different criminal, should be same penalty.


Go ahead and dock him for what Penske did. You realize that would tie him with Gordon and give him the final spot on the tiebreaker, right?

Oh you mean dock him more and take him out of the Chase because you don't like him, got it.
 
2013-09-13 10:30:41 PM

killershark: Can someone explain to me what the big deal is about all of this? I'm an F1 fan and this whole situation sounds like typical team orders to me. So is it a "This is 'Murican racing!" situation or is there really a rule against team orders in NASCAR? Or was this not a case of team orders and there's something else I'm not seeing?


It made the sport look bad as it had never happened so blatantly before. Fans got pissed off.  The governing body decided they needed to do something about team orders so they did.  NASCAR has its roots in one car teams, so there was no written rule, but as has been stated many many time Brian France can make up a new rule anytime he wants.  He could literately wake up Saturday morning and say "All Cars must have a pink stripe on the roof to race on Sunday" and every team would be out there with a can of pink spray paint.
 
2013-09-13 10:32:21 PM

killershark: Can someone explain to me what the big deal is about all of this? I'm an F1 fan and this whole situation sounds like typical team orders to me. So is it a "This is 'Murican racing!" situation or is there really a rule against team orders in NASCAR? Or was this not a case of team orders and there's something else I'm not seeing?


This is something new entirely for NASCAR.  In the past at restrictor plate tracks we've had teammates helping each other to victory or pulling over to let their teammate lead a lap for bonus points, but not this blatant farkery that happened last weekend.  If MWR was planning on doing this, they should've at least signed Nelson Piquet Jr. to a one race deal.
 
2013-09-13 10:32:27 PM

technomuse: smerfnablin: vegaswench: bluorangefyre: yeah, the thread on Sunday should drag out wrestling memes

Blech.  Let's not.

I was randomly throwing up big lebowski memes on Tuesday that were perfectly fitting....

Might dig then up Sunday...

Oh! Do you think Fox will dump
Waltrip as a broadcaster ?

Not a chance. Too much money wrapped up in his brother Darryl.


And as soon as Darryl opens his fat mouth to defend MWR next season fans will eat him alive
 
2013-09-13 10:35:36 PM

killershark: Can someone explain to me what the big deal is about all of this? I'm an F1 fan and this whole situation sounds like typical team orders to me. So is it a "This is 'Murican racing!" situation or is there really a rule against team orders in NASCAR? Or was this not a case of team orders and there's something else I'm not seeing?


I can't explain it, but I don't really buy into the team approach to racing in NASCAR. I'm a fan of the driver first, and barely acknowledge the team. Maybe it's an American bootstraps type of thing. Not sure if I'm a typical fan.
 
2013-09-13 10:36:02 PM

emonk: My hero.  Where are you during the real time Cup threads?


I' m quite often lurking, but my snark generation unit is a little slow, so I often watch someone else post what I was gonna say.

I enjoy (nearly) every race.  I have no allegiance to any particular driver.  I knew what was going on last Saturday night but I saw it as masterful strategy, not cheating (except maybe Carl jumping the restart).  I expected this sort of thing since 2005.  I'm surprised it took this long.

I thought it was kinda clever myself. I do like MWR for coming from nothing to contenders in a relatively short time. I am however, adamantly anti-Gordon and JJ, as without their respective (or former) crew chiefs (Evernham and Knaus), I suspect they'd be barely top 20 drivers.

I still love to note that the rulebook says nothing about when a team can or cannot pit as long as the pits aren't closed, so they invoke 12.4A again. I guess now you'll have to subject your car to a teardown to make sure your reason for pitting is legit.

I'll bet the rule book with get a major overhaul this winter, or I'll expect more of the same from every team out there. Sometimes the cheaters DO win, and often because they are diabolically clever in "interpreting" the rules.
 
2013-09-13 10:37:23 PM
When did Jeff Gordon turn into such a toddler? His Twitter feed after the MWR punishment was the social media equivalent of telling a 2 year old they can't have ice cream before dinner.  And for what? So he could get into the chase and continue to blow engines, crash cars, and generally be irrelevant like he has been all season?
 
2013-09-13 10:38:04 PM

smerfnablin: technomuse: smerfnablin: vegaswench: bluorangefyre: yeah, the thread on Sunday should drag out wrestling memes

Blech.  Let's not.

I was randomly throwing up big lebowski memes on Tuesday that were perfectly fitting....

Might dig then up Sunday...

Oh! Do you think Fox will dump
Waltrip as a broadcaster ?

Not a chance. Too much money wrapped up in his brother Darryl.

And as soon as Darryl opens his fat mouth to defend MWR next season fans will eat him alive


There may not even be a MWR team at Daytona.  NAPA is re-evaluating their sponsorship, as well as 5-Hour Energy.  The team started with Mikey running jet fuel in his car.  And this is the second time I'm sounding like I'm defending Johnson and its making me feel dirty doing so, but at least the 48 team's cheating isn't as blatant.  I did find it funny, though, that he had to come out and defend himself against allegations of cheating when it was the one time he wasn't cheating.
 
2013-09-13 10:38:52 PM

bluorangefyre: killershark: Can someone explain to me what the big deal is about all of this? I'm an F1 fan and this whole situation sounds like typical team orders to me. So is it a "This is 'Murican racing!" situation or is there really a rule against team orders in NASCAR? Or was this not a case of team orders and there's something else I'm not seeing?

This is something new entirely for NASCAR.  In the past at restrictor plate tracks we've had teammates helping each other to victory or pulling over to let their teammate lead a lap for bonus points, but not this blatant farkery that happened last weekend.  If MWR was planning on doing this, they should've at least signed Nelson Piquet Jr. to a one race deal.


Right there is a difference between telling a drive to let someone pass, or telling a driver in 20th place to pit when the driver in 5th place pits at Daytona so the driver has a drafting partner and telling a driver to spin out because the wrong guy is winning and the only chance to fix that is a caution flag.  The first examples help one driver and screw up the race for one driver, the last example farks up the whole field.
 
2013-09-13 10:41:37 PM

bluorangefyre: There may not even be a MWR team at Daytona. NAPA is re-evaluating their sponsorship, as well as 5-Hour Energy.


You just know RCR and Hendrick are salivating over NAPA looking for a new team, hell even Tony Stewart might even send Danica out to give handies in the hospitality tent next week.
 
2013-09-13 10:44:08 PM

StormChaser: When did Jeff Gordon turn into such a toddler? His Twitter feed after the MWR punishment was the social media equivalent of telling a 2 year old they can't have ice cream before dinner.  And for what? So he could get into the chase and continue to blow engines, crash cars, and generally be irrelevant like he has been all season the past four seasons?


FTFY but as stated above, and probably as some of us feared, he was probably going to take his aggression out on Logano, Bowyer, and everybody else.  So rather than have an active missile on the track (and really, would NASCAR suspend Jeff Gordon?), they put him in.
 
2013-09-13 10:46:32 PM

smerfnablin: And as soon as Darryl opens his fat mouth to defend MWR next season fans will eat him alive


I've heard him interviewed.  He's not defending Michael at all.

Side note: Kyle almost fell out of his truck doing a burnout.  *headdesk*
 
2013-09-13 10:54:00 PM

vegaswench: I've heard him interviewed.  He's not defending Michael at all.


His FB page is full of MWR fans, but he's admitted to being in between a rock and a hard place. He loves his brother, but he has to be a professional (at least in public).
 
2013-09-13 10:56:26 PM
Mikey's in the discussion group right now...
 
2013-09-13 10:58:19 PM

Sugarpuss O'Shea: killershark: Can someone explain to me what the big deal is about all of this? I'm an F1 fan and this whole situation sounds like typical team orders to me. So is it a "This is 'Murican racing!" situation or is there really a rule against team orders in NASCAR? Or was this not a case of team orders and there's something else I'm not seeing?

I can't explain it, but I don't really buy into the team approach to racing in NASCAR. I'm a fan of the driver first, and barely acknowledge the team. Maybe it's an American bootstraps type of thing. Not sure if I'm a typical fan.


You're definitely an American fan! Nothing wrong with that. I remember leaving an F1 race at Indy and hearing people complaining on the radio about Schumi letting his teammate win. I thought it was fine, but some American fans weren't pleased that the winner was "rigged" like that.

I understand the driver before team in NASCAR and the backlash but it seems overblown for this case. Plus, I've become a bigger fan of team orders in the past few years as a way for drivers to work together to try and bring down someone who is dominating the championship -- in that case Vettel. Would NASCAR fans be a bit agreeable to it if they saw drivers as tag team partners who had a common goal of bringing Jimmie Johnson down while also trying to get an individual driver's championship?
 
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