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(ESPN)   On Friday the 13th, NASCAR decides to make the Chase thirteen drivers strong. ITS STILL REAL TO ME DAMNIT   (espn.go.com) divider line 162
    More: Followup, NASCAR, Jeff Gordon, Mike Helton, David Gilliland, Joey Logano, Richmond International Raceway, Chase for the Sprint Cup, Michael Waltrip Racing  
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669 clicks; posted to Sports » on 13 Sep 2013 at 8:27 PM (30 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



162 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-13 08:09:55 PM
I'm glad NASCAR is doing something, but they did it wrong.  They should have shortened the chase to 9 races and made everyone race in this week.

/Oh and can we get an Indy Car style Push to Pass button, that would be really cool.
 
2013-09-13 08:11:41 PM
And here's the running commentary -

nascarcasm @nascarcasm

"THE CHASE - 12 DRIVERS (WITH A MARGIN OF ERROR OF +/- 1 DRIVER), ONE CHAMPION."

NASCAR Wonka @NASCAR_Wonka

Jeff Gordon becomes the 13th Chase driver on Friday the 13th? Well played, NASCAR.

nascarcasm @nascarcasm

It is officially more difficult to earn a spot in the Sprint Unlimited than a spot in the Chase.

The Catch Fence ™ @TheCatchFence

The NASCAR rulebook: everyone in NASCAR has to live by it. Except for NASCAR of course.

nascarcasm @nascarcasm

Film idea - "Mike & Brian's Excellent Adventure," where the two travel back in time in a phone booth and prevent all instances of collusion.

nascarcasm @nascarcasm

This weekend, I pray that during the race, the #22 and #38 teams are caught on radio by NASCAR discussing how pointless probation is.

nascarcasm @nascarcasm

NASCAR doesn't need to take another Chase photo - they apparently just need to write the Chase drivers' names in sand somewhere.

Nascar Memes @NascarMemes

What about Truex you ask? He was spotted walking to the nearest Porta-John to wipe his years with the cheap toilet paper.

nascarcasm @nascarcasm

At this point, NASCAR drivers, the Chase is like a big party. Just show up for it, and hope no one notices you aren't supposed to be there.

nascarcasm @nascarcasm

Brian France and Mike Helton should run the NCAA. I'd really look forward to the Final Five each year.
 
2013-09-13 08:13:16 PM
Pics too? Of course

pbs.twimg.com

pbs.twimg.com
 
2013-09-13 08:29:14 PM
img.photobucket.comARE YOU NOT SPORTS ENTERTAINED?
 
2013-09-13 08:29:42 PM
On the positive side, it will shut up the Jeff Gordon fans.  They've been insufferable this week.  But this is a poor decision by France, one among many as of late.  Wow.
 
2013-09-13 08:32:11 PM
I found this exchange to be pretty awesome... I'm sure we know what he can't afford:

nascarcasm @nascarcasm
Brian France and Mike Helton should run the NCAA. I'd really look forward to the Final Five each year. #NASCAR

Brad Keselowski @keselowski 2h
@nascarcasm can't afford this one

nascarcasm @nascarcasm 2h
@keselowski Don't worry, pal - this one's on the house!
 
2013-09-13 08:33:06 PM
Still more legitimate than the NBA.
 
2013-09-13 08:33:16 PM
This is what happens when people get upset that the champion didn't win many races, he just finished in the top-10 35 times while their guy won 10 races and had 15 DNFs.

Any time there's a points cutoff in something based on points people will try to manipulate it. You see it all the time in soccer with teams trying to manipulate goal differentials. The only surprise is that it took NASCAR teams this long to actually swing something like this so blatantly.

The Chase has to go or this will happen again, only the next time they'll be much more subtle about it. Bring back the old system. Aside from the fact that it's better for everybody, under the old system JJ doesn't win every year, and any system where that's the case is the right one.
 
2013-09-13 08:34:10 PM
NASCAR Wonka @NASCAR_Wonka

NASCAR's new motto for this year's Chase.

pbs.twimg.com
 
2013-09-13 08:37:06 PM
I'm relatively new to NASCAR, and my driver will likely never make the Chase, and I understand how the Chase works, but...

I still think Truex is more deserving of a Chase berth than Gordon.

Just get rid of the damn Chase.
 
2013-09-13 08:37:10 PM
Can we vote Logano off the island?
 
2013-09-13 08:38:17 PM
Helton looked today like he'd been on a 5 day bender, and judging from the ruling, I suspect a lot of alcohol was involved.
 
2013-09-13 08:42:07 PM
Tom_Slick: Oh and can we get an Indy Car style Push to Pass button, that would be really cool.

They have it already, it's just in the pitbox and the spotter's area only.

/Hey Roger, will that payoff to FRM be cash or credit?
 
2013-09-13 08:42:15 PM

vegaswench: On the positive side, it will shut up the Jeff Gordon fans.  They've been insufferable this week.  But this is a poor decision by France, one among many as of late.  Wow.


My boyfriend, who is a huge Gordon fan, said that he should have done better all year long and he would not be in this position.

I told him that Gordon would be added by Friday afternoon. He said I was crazy...I don't know if this was the right decision yet but damned if this was not a farked up mess.
 
2013-09-13 08:42:36 PM
It figured that the one I didn't submit went green :)

As I said before this move was done to keep Gordon off bowyer because as soon as Jeffie puts bowyer in the wall the media would have gone nuts

Even Vegas odds makers put bowyer at 60:1 to win the chase specifically because of Jeff Gordon's inevitable retaliation
 
2013-09-13 08:44:21 PM

Wild Eyed and Wicked: vegaswench: On the positive side, it will shut up the Jeff Gordon fans.  They've been insufferable this week.  But this is a poor decision by France, one among many as of late.  Wow.

My boyfriend, who is a huge Gordon fan, said that he should have done better all year long and he would not be in this position.

I told him that Gordon would be added by Friday afternoon. He said I was crazy...I don't know if this was the right decision yet but damned if this was not a farked up mess.


You're fefinitely not crazy.  The people in charge of this mess sure are, though.
 
2013-09-13 08:46:24 PM

Tom_Slick: They should have shortened the chase to 9 races and made everyone race in this week.


This is probably the most sensible solution I've heard yet. Even better, it puts New Hampshire back as the first race in the Chase like it should be.
 

/Go DIAF Bruton Smith
 
2013-09-13 08:48:48 PM
I don't know if wrestling is a good analogy. I was thinking more like a circus. Or a carnival side show.

Has anyone met any NASCAR fan in the history of the world who likes the chase? My dad is a math geek so he likes figuring out what the standings should be, but I think that may be the only reason for anyone to like it.
 
2013-09-13 08:49:28 PM
Nobody should be biatching about this, it's absolutely the right thing to do given the circumstances.
 
2013-09-13 08:50:10 PM
I'm surprised they just make the chase to 16 drivers and tell the other 27 drivers to take the last 10 races off

That way we can get the classic IROC race of champions

/make it better and have chad setup all 16 cars...
 
2013-09-13 08:50:11 PM

Wild Eyed and Wicked: My boyfriend, who is a huge Gordon fan


NTTAWWT
 
2013-09-13 08:50:30 PM

freak7: Nobody should be biatching about this, it's absolutely the right thing to do given the circumstances.


How do you figure?
 
2013-09-13 08:53:56 PM
So... The truck race is on.
 
2013-09-13 08:54:43 PM

vegaswench: On the positive side, it will shut up the Jeff Gordon fans.  They've been insufferable this week.  But this is a poor decision by France, one among many as of late.  Wow.


I'm a Gordon fan, but I don't give a shiat. Mostly because a NASCAR championship is about as serious as an NBA game in late November.

Who cares? Johnson will probably just 'clean air' his way to #6.
 
2013-09-13 08:56:29 PM

smerfnablin: I'm surprised they just make the chase to 16 drivers and tell the other 27 drivers to take the last 10 races off

That way we can get the classic IROC race of champions

/make it better and have chad setup all 16 cars...


I think they should do how the PGA does the FedEx cup and make the Chase the last 5 races of the season.

Race 1: Top 40 auto-qualify, the rest race to qualify for the last 3 slots. Everyone else is eliminated. Top 30 in points after this race qualify for Race 2; rest eliminated.
Race 2: Top 25 in points qualify for Race 3; bottom 5 eliminated.
Race 3: Top 20 in points qualify for Race 4; bottom 5 eliminated.
Race 4: Top 15 in points qualify for Race 5; bottom 5 eliminated.
Race 5: The winner of the race is the Sprint Cup Champion, regardless of points.
 
2013-09-13 08:57:04 PM
I know the last one isn't how the PGA does it, but I think it'd be more exciting.
 
2013-09-13 08:58:11 PM

soopey: Tom_Slick: They should have shortened the chase to 9 races and made everyone race in this week.

This is probably the most sensible solution I've heard yet. Even better, it puts New Hampshire back as the first race in the Chase like it should be.
 

/Go DIAF Bruton Smith


While this is a good idea it creates two problems:

1. You just moved the goal posts and created a situation where anyone excluded after this race would have a problem. This would repeat the Gordon unfairness cycle

2. It gives MWR the chance to play the victim after penalties were handed out. As it is right now they are probably going to be crying this weekend because Newman and Gordon were put in the chase by changing the rules while they were punished.

See it made sense Monday because the penalties on MWR were enforced to specifically put Newman in the Chase over Truex and enforce a sense of fairness without mangling the rules to do it.

Now? It's just a clusterfark. Why not put 16 drives in the chase and make them race the tracks clockwise with all right turns?!

Brian France basically implied it is within his power to do so!
 
2013-09-13 09:00:25 PM
The whole thing with "Honest Ave" starting the truck race after *this* week seemed a bit...ironic.
 
2013-09-13 09:01:01 PM

technomuse: The whole thing with "Honest Ave" starting the truck race after *this* week seemed a bit...ironic.


Abe. Stupid autocorrect...
 
2013-09-13 09:01:55 PM

smerfnablin: Brian France basically implied it is within his power to do so!


If you want a good book on why the France family behaves like they do, read Driving with the Devil
 
2013-09-13 09:02:48 PM
Predetermined Hillbily Jockeying
 
2013-09-13 09:03:19 PM

smerfnablin: Brian France basically implied it is within his power to do so!


It always was, and it always has been. The Frances have ruled with an iron fist.
 
2013-09-13 09:03:28 PM
Help a new fan out. Is it true that NASCAR doesn't have a published rule book? So they can pretty much make up the Chase rules as they go along? I can't imagine a similar situation in the NFL or MLB.
 
2013-09-13 09:04:25 PM

freak7: Nobody should be biatching about this, it's absolutely the right thing to do given the circumstances.


Actually, it's not.

Look at the facts:

1.) NASCAR said they could not prove Bowyer spun intentionally. (Which quite conveniently relieves them of have to look too closely at JJ hitting the wall to gain Gordon 8 positions on the track. Joonyer was penalized the same amount of points for spinning on purpose at Bristol last year to avoid going a lap down when he had a loose wheel. Nonetheless, Bowyer got penalized the same.

2.) MWR's penalty was based entirely on Bowyer pitting twice, and Vickers pitting and then lapping slowly. Truex was totally unaware of what was happening, yet he got the shaft out of everyone with the 50 point penalty. I have still to read in the rule book where pitting at any time the pit is open is somehow "illegal". It also specifies nothing of "intent".

3.) Penske offered some form of payoff to FRM to lose a position on track, and they obliged. Once again, all on radio transcripts.

4.) NASCAR throws the book at MWR for helping a teammate, yet Penske gets "probation" for attempting (successfully) to BUY Logano's way into the top 10.

Now do you see why things aren't right? I could give a damn if Jeffy got back in, the point is Logano should have been hit as hard (or harder) than MWR for the SAME offense. To add a 13th spot just to make Jeffy happy stinks. Jeff should have taken Logano's place. And to be honest, Truex shouldn't have been docked anything...he's just out there trying to drive hard and do the best he can.
 
2013-09-13 09:07:57 PM
This is one of those times where the Fark Cop Math meme would have worked splendidly, and I'm sorry I didn't get home in time to do it.

"Jeff Gordon made 13th driver in the Chase. Final media briefings for all 15 drivers to be held tomorrow evening. Full lineup of 20 expected to race Sunday."
 
2013-09-13 09:09:54 PM
I get it now, people hate Lugano so he should be booted.
 
2013-09-13 09:10:24 PM

Sugarpuss O'Shea: Help a new fan out. Is it true that NASCAR doesn't have a published rule book? So they can pretty much make up the Chase rules as they go along? I can't imagine a similar situation in the NFL or MLB.


There is no equivalent of a Players Union in NASCAR, essentially if you want to race at that level you have to do whatever the France family deems necessary. So they can do whatever they want.  Their contracts are with TV and Sponsors as long as the races happen that's all that matters.  The drivers and team owners have no rights not given to them by the France family, and those rights can be rescinded at anytime.

It is worse than the WWE since at least the wrestlers have a contract with the WWE and have a legal recourse.   The teams are invited to race and that invitation can be pulled at anytime for any reason with no explanation.
 
2013-09-13 09:13:28 PM

HamstersFromHell: Now do you see why things aren't right? I could give a damn if Jeffy got back in, the point is Logano should have been hit as hard (or harder) than MWR for the SAME offense. To add a 13th spot just to make Jeffy happy stinks. Jeff should have taken Logano's place. And to be honest, Truex shouldn't have been docked anything...he's just out there trying to drive hard and do the best he can.


So you want to dock Lugano for doing nothing wrong while forgiving Truex? How does that possibly make any sense?
 
2013-09-13 09:14:10 PM

Sugarpuss O'Shea: Help a new fan out. Is it true that NASCAR doesn't have a published rule book? So they can pretty much make up the Chase rules as they go along? I can't imagine a similar situation in the NFL or MLB.


They have one, it's just obtainable for us "commoners".

The problem with it is that it doesn't specify *anything* that MWR did as specifically being illegal.I don't have a link handy, but read Brian Vicker's letter in USA Today.

All NASCAR has in the old standby Rule 12.4A

12.4A: General Scope of Penalties
Any member who performs an act or participates in actions deemed by NASCAR Officials as detrimental to stock car racing or to NASCAR: a fine, and/or disqualification, and/or loss of Championship points, and/or loss of finishing position(s) in the Event, and/or probation, and/or suspension.

Basically, it gives France and Helton absolute power over what they do or do not like. But NASCAR abuses the hell out of this little rule, ask Denny Hamlin. They use it as a "gag order" to keep the drivers in line with any criticism of the oh so holy NASCAR.

:
 
2013-09-13 09:20:08 PM

freak7: So you want to dock Lugano for doing nothing wrong while forgiving Truex? How does that possibly make any sense?


I kinda misworded that. It should be an either/or thing. If you dock Truex, you are bound by common sense to dock Logano. If you don't dock Logano, then rescind Truex's penalty. That better?
 
2013-09-13 09:20:50 PM

freak7: I get it now, people hate Lugano so he should be booted.


That, plus his team's caught on tape doing the same shiat MWR pulled.

NASCAR got boned so hard by this coming out on Wednesday. That, plus their inaction on Bowyer, the catalyst of the whole mess, has led to a great, steaming plate of schadenfreude and fail that they've had coming for a while. I can only hope that this clusterfark is the ultimate downfall of the Chase.
 
2013-09-13 09:26:29 PM

Tom_Slick: Sugarpuss O'Shea: Help a new fan out. Is it true that NASCAR doesn't have a published rule book? So they can pretty much make up the Chase rules as they go along? I can't imagine a similar situation in the NFL or MLB.

There is no equivalent of a Players Union in NASCAR, essentially if you want to race at that level you have to do whatever the France family deems necessary. So they can do whatever they want.  Their contracts are with TV and Sponsors as long as the races happen that's all that matters.  The drivers and team owners have no rights not given to them by the France family, and those rights can be rescinded at anytime.

It is worse than the WWE since at least the wrestlers have a contract with the WWE and have a legal recourse.   The teams are invited to race and that invitation can be pulled at anytime for any reason with no explanation.


Thank you. I can't help but think that the drivers need a players union, independent of their teams. And how can the sponsors handle having their teams added or removed from the Chase based on a ruling, not on-track action? That can't be good for retaining or attracting sponsors.
 
2013-09-13 09:28:15 PM

Sugarpuss O'Shea: I can't help but think that the drivers need a players union, independent of their teams.


Last time they tried that the Teamsters backed down.  Let's just say the France family has connections that wold make Don Corleone jealous.
 
2013-09-13 09:31:11 PM
If it hadn't been Gordon, NASCAR wouldn't have given a shiat. If anyone else had finished 13th, it would have been, "too bad for you, shoulda raced better"
 
2013-09-13 09:31:31 PM

Clutch2013: That, plus his team's caught on tape doing the same shiat MWR pulled.


To me, Penske's shait was far worse. MWR helped teammates. Penske is buying Logano chase bonus points for getting 10th place.

I can only hope that this clusterfark is the ultimate downfall of the Chase.

Absolutely THIS! Without the chase, they'd all be damned if they would give up a point to anyone else, since they'll ALL count in the end. The chase caused this mess, it's time to fix it by removing it.
 
2013-09-13 09:33:56 PM

HamstersFromHell: I kinda misworded that. It should be an either/or thing. If you dock Truex, you are bound by common sense to dock Logano. If you don't dock Logano, then rescind Truex's penalty. That better?


One team helped Logano, the other was helping themselves, which also helped Logano. If Joey doesn't get the help from the one team, he ties Gordon in points and still makes it in by holding the tiebreakers. He can't be penalized because MWR did something that also benefited him.
 
2013-09-13 09:36:21 PM

HamstersFromHell: Sugarpuss O'Shea: Help a new fan out. Is it true that NASCAR doesn't have a published rule book? So they can pretty much make up the Chase rules as they go along? I can't imagine a similar situation in the NFL or MLB.

They have one, it's just obtainable for us "commoners".

The problem with it is that it doesn't specify *anything* that MWR did as specifically being illegal.I don't have a link handy, but read Brian Vicker's letter in USA Today.

All NASCAR has in the old standby Rule 12.4A

12.4A: General Scope of Penalties
Any member who performs an act or participates in actions deemed by NASCAR Officials as detrimental to stock car racing or to NASCAR: a fine, and/or disqualification, and/or loss of Championship points, and/or loss of finishing position(s) in the Event, and/or probation, and/or suspension.

Basically, it gives France and Helton absolute power over what they do or do not like. But NASCAR abuses the hell out of this little rule, ask Denny Hamlin. They use it as a "gag order" to keep the drivers in line with any criticism of the oh so holy NASCAR.

:

Until Hamlin was fined, I thought that NASCAR drivers where more free to share their opinions than in other sports.Hamlin being fined earlier this year for expressing opinions on the new car was insane.
 
2013-09-13 09:37:54 PM
Why is this in the Sports tab, again?
 
2013-09-13 09:40:46 PM
A few thoughts here:

NASCAR needs a rule book available to the public. As it is, only NASCAR teams can have one. (Hell, they'd make good money selling them to the curios fans.)

They need a PR department that actually communicates to the fans. Look at MWR's "rocket fuel" controversy. NASCAR promised us they'd find out just what it was that was in those manifolds, but have we ever been told? Coulda been Sterno, jellied nitromethane, or silly putty...we still don't know.

They also need to word it like the SCCA's rule book(s), wherein there is a clause that eliminates all those "gray areas".
"Anything not specifically authorized by these rules is automatically prohibited."
 
2013-09-13 09:45:01 PM

Tom_Slick: Sugarpuss O'Shea: I can't help but think that the drivers need a players union, independent of their teams.

Last time they tried that the Teamsters backed down.  Let's just say the France family has connections that wold make Don Corleone jealous.


So when I go to Daytona in February, I shouldn't genuflect to the Bill France statue?

I've been following NASCAR for about 4 years. Every sports fan want their teams and their team's competitors to be playing on the up-and-up. But what do you do when there are inconsistent rules and  a rule maker with absolute power? I guess until it hurts shareholders it doesn't matter.
 
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