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(Think Progress)   Guns don't kill people... Well, actually they do   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 628
    More: Obvious, American Journal of Public Health, social inequality, Economic egalitarianism, gun deaths, guns  
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9045 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Sep 2013 at 2:32 PM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-13 01:52:53 PM
But why should 'Responsible Gun Owners' let a little thing like perpetuating a culture of death and tragedy keep them from playing with their toys.
 
2013-09-13 02:11:40 PM
Well this should escalate quickly.
 
2013-09-13 02:13:49 PM
well, actually, if you really really want to get technical it's the bullets that cause the damage.


I...I... don't know that to say...I don't have bullet porn....

I've failed you Fark..
 
2013-09-13 02:14:55 PM
Popcorn! Get your fresh buttered popcorn!
 
2013-09-13 02:14:57 PM

TuteTibiImperes: But why should 'Responsible Gun Owners' let a little thing like perpetuating a culture of death and tragedy keep them from playing with their toys.



1) They're not toys.

2) Do you want to keep losing this argument, or should I stop being awesome?
 
2013-09-13 02:16:22 PM

The_Sponge: TuteTibiImperes: But why should 'Responsible Gun Owners' let a little thing like perpetuating a culture of death and tragedy keep them from playing with their toys.


1) They're not toys.

2) Do you want to keep losing this argument, or should I stop being awesome?


1) Keep telling yourself that

2) Wouldn't you have to start first?
 
2013-09-13 02:17:03 PM

SilentStrider: Popcorn! Get your fresh buttered popcorn!


Oh popcorn boy! I've cleared my schedule for the afternoon and limbered up my refresh button finger. I'll take two tubs, extra large.
 
2013-09-13 02:17:39 PM
Bullets kill people.  Guns just get them going really fast.
 
2013-09-13 02:18:35 PM
It's literally the point of guns.
 
2013-09-13 02:19:04 PM

The_Sponge: They're not toys.


That's what I keep telling my wife about my RC helicopter fixation.

She isn't buying that either.
 
2013-09-13 02:20:46 PM

gilgigamesh: The_Sponge: They're not toys.

That's what I keep telling my wife about my RC helicopter fixation.

She isn't buying that either.



Heh.

Did you hear about the guy in New York who died when his crashed into his skull?  Holy shiat.
 
2013-09-13 02:21:39 PM

TuteTibiImperes: 1) Keep telling yourself that

2) Wouldn't you have to start first?



1) I don't have to....I accept it as truth, and if you have a shred of intelligence, you would too.

2) I did in the previous thread....please try to keep up.
 
2013-09-13 02:22:09 PM

The_Sponge: gilgigamesh: The_Sponge: They're not toys.

That's what I keep telling my wife about my RC helicopter fixation.

She isn't buying that either.


Heh.

Did you hear about the guy in New York who died when his crashed into his skull?  Holy shiat.


Only 16,000 more, and we can compare RC's to guns!
 
2013-09-13 02:24:29 PM

The_Sponge: TuteTibiImperes: 1) Keep telling yourself that

2) Wouldn't you have to start first?


1) I don't have to....I accept it as truth, and if you have a shred of intelligence, you would too.

2) I did in the previous thread....please try to keep up.


Firearms can be used as tools.  However military spec assault rifles in civilian hands fall strictly into the 'toy' category, there's no practical need for them.  Want to show off your pretty desert camo painted toy again?
 
2013-09-13 02:26:09 PM

TuteTibiImperes: The_Sponge: TuteTibiImperes: 1) Keep telling yourself that

2) Wouldn't you have to start first?


1) I don't have to....I accept it as truth, and if you have a shred of intelligence, you would too.

2) I did in the previous thread....please try to keep up.

Firearms can be used as tools.  However military spec assault rifles in civilian hands fall strictly into the 'toy' category, there's no practical need for them.  Want to show off your pretty desert camo painted toy again?


Part of the problem is that firearms can be used BY tools.
 
2013-09-13 02:27:13 PM

The_Sponge: gilgigamesh: The_Sponge: They're not toys.

That's what I keep telling my wife about my RC helicopter fixation.

She isn't buying that either.


Heh.

Did you hear about the guy in New York who died when his crashed into his skull?  Holy shiat.


Yeah, it was on Fark. It was one of those gas powered stunt copters; large with metallic blades. Basically it is a flying lawn mower.
 
2013-09-13 02:27:39 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Firearms can be used as tools. However military spec assault rifles in civilian hands fall strictly into the 'toy' category, there's no practical need for them. Want to show off your pretty desert camo painted toy again?


a paint job and a pistol grip doesn't make it a toy. Toys I let my children play with, they don't get to play with guns.
 
2013-09-13 02:27:44 PM
So, "as gun ownership increased, violent crime declined...during the timeframe the study covered"

buuuuuuut....if we manipulate the data, add some other factors like suicides (since without guns, there would be NO suicide, right?)....we can get the results our paymasters requested.

Tute:  Your rights end where mine begin.  So, go have a coke and a smile and stfu.
 
2013-09-13 02:27:49 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Firearms can be used as tools. However military spec assault rifles in civilian hands fall strictly into the 'toy' category, there's no practical need for them. Want to show off your pretty desert camo painted toy again?


I do all my trap shooting with an AK47 painted with a war eagle.

I wear full camo too. It's IMPORTANT.
 
2013-09-13 02:27:58 PM

I_Am_Weasel: Well this should escalate quickly.


That's why I'm posting the Abstract early. I note with interest that the study only covers homicides and suicides. I do also wonder about gun-related injuries separate from those as well:

====

The Relationship Between Gun Ownership and Firearm Homicide Rates in the United States, 1981-2010
by
Michael Siegel,MD, MPH,Craig S. Ross,MBA, andCharles King III,JD, PhD

Objectives: We examined the relationship between levels of household firearm ownership, as measured directly and by a proxy-the percentage of suicides committed with a firearm-and age-adjusted firearm homicide rates at the state level.

Methods: We conducted a negative binomial regression analysis of panel data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's Web-Based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting Systems database on gun ownership and firearm homicide rates across all 50 states during 1981 to 2010. We determined fixed effects for year, accounted for clustering within states with generalized estimating equations, and controlled for potential state-level confounders.

Results: Gun ownership was a significant predictor of firearm homicide rates (incidence rate ratio=1.009; 95% confidence interval=1.004, 1.014). This model indicated that for each percentage point increase in gun ownership, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9%.

Conclusions: We observed a robust correlation between higher levels of gun ownership and higher firearm homicide rates. Although we could not determine causation, we found that states with higher rates of gun ownership had disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides.
 
2013-09-13 02:29:24 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: TuteTibiImperes: Firearms can be used as tools. However military spec assault rifles in civilian hands fall strictly into the 'toy' category, there's no practical need for them. Want to show off your pretty desert camo painted toy again?

a paint job and a pistol grip doesn't make it a toy. Toys I let my children play with, they don't get to play with guns.


Adult "toy". My 70 Chevelle is a "toy" as well. You probably don't let your kids play with dildos either.

/not that I'm judging
 
2013-09-13 02:29:29 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: TuteTibiImperes: Firearms can be used as tools. However military spec assault rifles in civilian hands fall strictly into the 'toy' category, there's no practical need for them. Want to show off your pretty desert camo painted toy again?

a paint job and a pistol grip doesn't make it a toy. Toys I let my children play with, they don't get to play with guns.


But it sure as fark makes it look more like a toy.
 
2013-09-13 02:31:09 PM
malialitman.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-09-13 02:31:19 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I...I... don't know that to say...I don't have bullet porn....


No need to invoke Rule 34.
 
2013-09-13 02:31:48 PM

farkerintx: So, "as gun ownership increased, violent crime declined...during the timeframe the study covered"

buuuuuuut....if we manipulate the data, add some other factors like suicides (since without guns, there would be NO suicide, right?)....we can get the results our paymasters requested.

Tute:  Your rights end where mine begin.  So, go have a coke and a smile and stfu.


They didn't include suicides in the homicide figures, they used the rate of suicides by gun (which apparently tracks at a constant rate with gun ownership) as a means to estimate the total number of firearms in circulation.

FTA:  No good data on national rates of gun ownership exist (partly the NRA's stranglehold on Congress), so the authors used the percentage of suicides that involve a firearm (FS/S) as a proxy.
 
2013-09-13 02:33:15 PM
"America's gun violence epidemic"

Is this actually a thing? I feel like most studies have reported gun violence going down in the last few years. Not that I think guns are a good thing. Just I'd like a little less hyperbole when it comes to the Constitutional rights afforded my fellow (if strange to me) citizens.
 
2013-09-13 02:33:33 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: TuteTibiImperes: Firearms can be used as tools. However military spec assault rifles in civilian hands fall strictly into the 'toy' category, there's no practical need for them. Want to show off your pretty desert camo painted toy again?

a paint job and a pistol grip doesn't make it a toy. Toys I let my children play with, they don't get to play with guns.


They don't get to play with my RC helicopter, either.

Seriously, that shiat is hard, and they are kind of dangerous
 
2013-09-13 02:33:34 PM
Since we know that violent crime rates overall declined during that period of time,

lol
 
2013-09-13 02:35:19 PM

ginandbacon: "America's gun violence epidemic"

Is this actually a thing? I feel like most studies have reported gun violence going down in the last few years. Not that I think guns are a good thing. Just I'd like a little less hyperbole when it comes to the Constitutional rights afforded my fellow (if strange to me) citizens.


The overall crime rate is dropping, but our gun violence rates are still completely out of whack compared to other developed nations.

abcnews.go.com

I'd say that qualifies as an epidemic.
 
2013-09-13 02:35:38 PM

mediablitz: Adult "toy". My 70 Chevelle is a "toy" as well. You probably don't let your kids play with dildos either.

/not that I'm judging


img577.imageshack.us
Sniper Kitty is accounting for the upward lift from your hot air.

And your Chevy isn't a toy it's a hobby. There is a difference. And I'd like to see pictures, love me some classic American steel.

BunkyBrewman: But it sure as fark makes it look more like a toy.


I'm glad you understand that, it only changes the look.

Now tell me where the evil looking gun touched you.
 
2013-09-13 02:37:08 PM
Next we're going to look into how often drunk driving takes place in automobiles.
 
2013-09-13 02:37:46 PM
Step 1: draw conclusion based upon what you want to be true
Step 2: gather data
Step 3: throw out data that do not support conclusion
Step 4: publish
 
2013-09-13 02:38:23 PM

TuteTibiImperes: ginandbacon: "America's gun violence epidemic"

Is this actually a thing? I feel like most studies have reported gun violence going down in the last few years. Not that I think guns are a good thing. Just I'd like a little less hyperbole when it comes to the Constitutional rights afforded my fellow (if strange to me) citizens.

The overall crime rate is dropping, but our gun violence rates are still completely out of whack compared to other developed nations.

[abcnews.go.com image 640x360]

I'd say that qualifies as an epidemic.


Will you quit using facts and figures to make the gun nuts look bad?  It hurts their sensitive feelings.
 
2013-09-13 02:38:56 PM

paygun: Next we're going to look into how often drunk driving takes place in automobiles.


The bad analogies from idiotic gun nuts has begun.
 
2013-09-13 02:39:29 PM
The Stealth Hippopotamus:

Now tell me where the evil looking gun touched you.

www.geekologie.com

/
 
2013-09-13 02:39:42 PM
Think Progress? May as well post an article about guns leading to less death from Fox News.
 
2013-09-13 02:40:12 PM

ginandbacon: "America's gun violence epidemic"

Is this actually a thing? I feel like most studies have reported gun violence going down in the last few years. Not that I think guns are a good thing. Just I'd like a little less hyperbole when it comes to the Constitutional rights afforded my fellow (if strange to me) citizens.


There is an argument being made that gun violence (and violence in general) is down because we as a nation have done such a good job putting violent criminals behind bars.

There is another argument that points out fewer Americans own guns. The number of guns are in a smaller percentage of people's hands (gun owners hoarding/Obama is going to take my guns so I better buy more).

As the true statistics about owning a gun and being involved in a gun related incident become more prevalent (the NRA did a great job preventing studies for decades), more people are deciding they don't want guns in their homes.

So it's true that gun violence is down. YMMV
 
2013-09-13 02:40:17 PM

The_Original_Roxtar: Step 1: draw conclusion based upon what you want to be true
Step 2: gather data
Step 3: throw out data that do not support conclusion
Step 4: publish


iat's been peer reviewed and is about to be published in a major journal, that's pretty good evidence that it's been thoroughly vetted.
 
2013-09-13 02:40:21 PM

mediablitz


I do all my trap shooting with an AK47 painted with a war eagle.


Heh.

"PULL!"

*blam*blam*blam*blam*blam*blam*blam*blam*blam*blam*blam*blam*blam*bla m *blam*blam*blam*blam*blam*blam*blam*blam*blam*blam*blam*blam*blam*blam *blam*

"Damn, missed it."
 
2013-09-13 02:40:42 PM
Anti-bullying programs also lead to bullying, and cancer leads to cell phones.

Because as we know, correlation implies causation.
 
2013-09-13 02:40:44 PM
What bullchit.
Liars figure. eh?

black is the new white
up is down
but, fer sure, image is everything
 
2013-09-13 02:40:44 PM

BunkyBrewman: The Stealth Hippopotamus:

Now tell me where the evil looking gun touched you.

[www.geekologie.com image 450x473]

/


Not sure why anyone would want to have a loaded gun pointed at their femoral artery.
 
2013-09-13 02:40:59 PM

CynicalLA: The bad analogies from idiotic gun nuts has begun.


Have begun.

\Might as well bring in grammar Nazis as well.
 
2013-09-13 02:41:20 PM

CynicalLA: paygun: Next we're going to look into how often drunk driving takes place in automobiles.

The bad analogies from idiotic gun nuts has begun.


Remember kids, every other problem that society faces is complex, except this one.  This is as easy as tax cuts for the rich.
 
2013-09-13 02:41:43 PM
This is completely obvious, but also obvious is that this will never change in the United States.  The NRA and Wayne LaPierre took an unspeakable tragedy last December and bent it -- against the desires of most Americans -- and turned it into a rally-point win for their fanatics.  Factions drive American politics nowadays, not anything resembling reasoned majorities.
 
2013-09-13 02:41:45 PM
Guns don't kill people... Well, actually they do

OMG, guns have learned how to pull their own trigger?
 
2013-09-13 02:41:55 PM

clancifer: TuteTibiImperes: ginandbacon: "America's gun violence epidemic"

Is this actually a thing? I feel like most studies have reported gun violence going down in the last few years. Not that I think guns are a good thing. Just I'd like a little less hyperbole when it comes to the Constitutional rights afforded my fellow (if strange to me) citizens.

The overall crime rate is dropping, but our gun violence rates are still completely out of whack compared to other developed nations.

[abcnews.go.com image 640x360]

I'd say that qualifies as an epidemic.

Will you quit using facts and figures to make the gun nuts look bad?  It hurts their sensitive feelings.


show the graph for all homicides, not just gun-related ones. Then the graph will have some meaning. I doubt the murder victim feels better about getting stabbed/poisoned/pushed off of a cliff vs being shot.
 
2013-09-13 02:42:36 PM

EkimProx: Think Progress? May as well post an article about guns leading to less death from Fox News.


Well, a peer reviewed study actually, but apart from that detail...
 
2013-09-13 02:42:40 PM

EkimProx: Think Progress? May as well post an article about guns leading to less death from Fox News.


Yeah. It's farking HARD to follow the link to the study.

SO F*CKING HARD.
 
2013-09-13 02:42:43 PM

super_grass: Because as we know, correlation implies causation.


Whatever it takes to make the scary inanimate object go away.
 
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