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(Science Daily)   Kids more likely to be bullied at schools with anti-bullying programs   (sciencedaily.com) divider line 38
    More: Ironic, University of Texas at Arlington, bullying programs, cyber-bullying, bullying, schools  
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5768 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Sep 2013 at 12:14 AM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-09-13 12:19:11 AM
6 votes:
Yeah, it's also ironic how cancer centers have a lot of patients with cancer
2013-09-13 12:23:48 AM
5 votes:
Wouldn't it stand to reason that they've instigated anti-bullying programs because bullying was such a problem? The other schools didn't, because there wasn't a problem to begin with?

/Tired.
2013-09-13 12:21:01 AM
5 votes:
Ironic? Apparently the "Obvious" tag was busy getting beaten up in the locker room.

Those anti-bullying campaigns are fairy-dust. They're completely full of shiat, ignore fundamental aspects of human nature, and are halfheartedly spoonfed to kids who know it's complete BS, by teachers who know it's complete BS.
2013-09-13 12:44:31 AM
4 votes:
Maybe because schools with anti-bullying policies are stricter about reporting cases of it. Schools that don't care aren't gonna have a high number of cases because most will go unreported.
2013-09-13 12:17:56 AM
4 votes:
Has anyone read the study? Isn't this just a case of backwards causation?
2013-09-13 12:48:08 AM
3 votes:
The best solution to a bully problem is a fist. Whoop a bullies butt and they stop it.
2013-09-13 12:22:25 AM
3 votes:
Watch the video for the song ' waking the demon'. Then, imagine that instead of turning into a werewolf the kid just puts on a ski mask and breaks the bully's face with a bat. That's the only real solution.

You are smarter than the bully. Plan it correctly, take your time, know the moment when the bully is vulnerable, givethem a t
2013-09-13 02:35:17 AM
2 votes:

cheeseaholic: dv-ous: Ironic? Apparently the "Obvious" tag was busy getting beaten up in the locker room.

Those anti-bullying campaigns are fairy-dust. They're completely full of shiat, ignore fundamental aspects of human nature, and are halfheartedly spoonfed to kids who know it's complete BS, by teachers who know it's complete BS.

Actually, talking to people fighitng, including bullies, works wonderfully.  The problem is to get most people who are fighting to talk, you need to take them to the ground and keep them there first.  They don't exacty teach that part.

/used to do that to bullies
//they seemed to be a lot of persecution complexes among them
///they eventually got better, and everyone forgave everyone else


I tried that once.  I was on the wrestling team in 8th grade.  The terror-of-the-bus didn't know that, and it wasn't obvious because I was a skinny little kid.  The bully got off at my stop instead of his and then jumped me thinking I was going to be easy to beat up.  Instead I got him in a "cradle" hold and kept him there until he stopped struggling.  I then proceeded to tell him as calmly as I could that what he was doing was wrong, that I was sorry for his home situation (which was shiatty), and that I'd even try to be his friend if he'd let me.  He apologized, then agreed to get up, shake hands, and go home.  Satisfied, I let him up.  We shook.  He went his way.  I went mine.

And then I woke up in the hospital two days later.  Seems he had turned around after about half a block, sprinted toward me, leaped into the air, and executed what witnesses said was a karate jump kick worthy of Bruce Lee.  I had severe kidney damage and couldn't walk or pee in any color other than red-orange for a week.

So taking them to the ground and talking to them doesn't always work.  Or rather, it works better if you don't turn your back on them.

(Oh, and in case you're wondering, he ended up getting arrested and thrown in juvenile hall, which was probably heaven compared to the squallid apartment where he lived with his drugged-out dope-dealer parents.  And we never saw him again after that.)
2013-09-13 02:35:01 AM
2 votes:
We've held employers responsible for workplace harassment for decades now. Why are schools not held to the same standard?

Why do we even have different, non-criminal words -- bullying -- when referring to children then when the same situations involving adults would use criminal words -- assault, battery, harassment? If we would just stop pretending that children aren't really human beings we already have a whole slew of tools to deal with these social issues.

/ Plus we should stop forcing children to attend terrible schools in the first place, both to stop "bullying" from happening and to prevent victims from being legally required to face their abusers
2013-09-13 02:27:59 AM
2 votes:

flondrix: Moonfisher: I have my own anti-bullying campaign; I tell my kid to hit back, hit hard, and take the little shiat down.

And if the bully is larger, stronger (often older) and much more experienced at this sort of thing?


As the short kid in school and the obvious target of bullies: you fight back anyway.  You always fight back, and even if the bully only comes out with a scratch, it at least makes them think twice.

Because that's all that bullies understand.
2013-09-13 01:40:28 AM
2 votes:

Gyrfalcon: Well, part of the problem too is that nowadays EVERYTHING bad that happens to a picked-upon child is de facto "bullying". Whether it's an actual sequence of deliberate incidents by another kid or group of kids meant to humiliate or demean that child...or a one-time episode of random name-calling; parents, teachers, administrators and other kids run shrieking: "IT WAS BULLYING!!!!"

And, there's no longer any attempt to let kids try to solve the problem themselves first. At the first hint of name calling or wedgie-making SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!!! which may or may not be warranted. Yes, intervention may be needed--but it may just make things that much worse for the picked-on kid, who is now seen as a weakling who can't even fight his/her own battles. Too many adult anti-bullying efforts seem to use a jackhammer when a scalpel is needed.

A bit like most of our efforts to fix anything really.


It was attitudes like yours, coming from the adult supervisors, that nearly lead me to suicide. A member of the Crips was physically and psychologically beating on a 100 lb 13 year old, me, for two solid years of torture. First in homeroom, then in P-E, then after class, every day of the school year. It only stopped when he was sent to prison for rape and attempted 1rst degree murder.

I was 13, 100 lbs, liked video games, playing football with my friends, going hunting or fishing with my family, etc. He was a 16 year old gang member, ripped head to toe, easily 225 lbs,  who just so happened to be a (actually pretty bad) running back for our (very bad) football team. So I went to the adults, most at least attempted to talk to the future murderer out of it, but it of course made it worse. The adults had no tools whatsoever to deal with the situation, something that you seem dead set against remedying. Why? Why does an anti-bullying sentiment offend so many ITGs?
2013-09-13 01:30:03 AM
2 votes:
1: Schools that had a major problem are more likely to institute programs to stop that problem.
2: Schools that have a program will report much higher levels because the program detects.

This stupid study is like saying a road with speed cameras has more speeders than another road with no cameras..
2013-09-13 12:41:38 AM
2 votes:

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Yeah, it's also ironic how cancer centers have a lot of patients with cancer


Not ironic as kids spotting bullies after they are taught how to spot bullies.

Not even close to ironic as kids acting like bullies after adults bully them through the use of metal detectors and random locker searches.
2013-09-13 12:34:04 AM
2 votes:
Moonlightfox
The solution to bullying is parenting. How about teach your kids not to be shiatheads to each other?


How about teaching adults not to be shiatheads to each other?

I say we commit a genocide against jerks.
2013-09-13 12:30:41 AM
2 votes:
I have my own anti-bullying campaign; I tell my kid to hit back, hit hard, and take the little shiat down. Get that out of the way now, when he's seven and unlikely to get in huge trouble for it and future issues should be few and far between. Standing up to a bully seems to create an invisible badge of confidence that wards others off.
2013-09-13 12:26:45 AM
2 votes:
Or maybe schools that have higher levels of bullying are more likely to have needed antibullying programs?
2013-09-13 12:17:05 AM
2 votes:
scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net
2013-09-13 03:22:21 PM
1 votes:

endmile: mreowmix: http://www.h indawi.com/journals/jcrim/2013/735397/tab3/

Ah, an article from a journal published by Hindawi. I'm not saying they only publish crap, but their standards are pretty low. Doesn't mean this article is BS, but it's not like it just came out in Science or Nature.


I'm saying it is BS. I read the article. They show nothing at all and have the temerity to put p values on it.
Here is what they did in regards to anti-bullying:

bullying ~ program

That's it. All they did was compare the current state of bullying to the current presence or absence of a program. That's bullshiat.

What they needed was to have at least two timepoints for the same schools, one before and one after the implementation of the programs, preferably the second a "reasonable time" after implementation (if they only use two timepoints). Then, they could say

bullying ~ program * time + (1|school), and add the appropriate family. I'm going to guess either zero-inflated or overdispersed Poisson. THEN they could have looked at program:time interaction and actually made a conclusion.

I understand that this was just a fishing expedition, but the irresponsible pseudo-scientists should have realized that the one thing that would have been latched on by the press (and was even latched on with their active collusion by their own publicity office) would be "ANTI-BULLYING DON'T WORK, DERP DERP DERP DERP".

I hate incompetent experimental design, even more than I hate the "Teen Mom" shows.
2013-09-13 03:02:39 PM
1 votes:

mreowmix: http://www.h indawi.com/journals/jcrim/2013/735397/tab3/

For you lazy Farkers who couldn't find the actual article, as well as Subby and ScienceDaily. This study wasn't designed to test whether or not the anti-bullying program was effective, it was just an examination of determinants of bullying using some shiatty data. Anti-bullying was used as a school-level control variable which happened to be very statistically significant in the direction they weren't expecting, and there are tons of reasons for that possibility.

If they were actually testing effectiveness of bullying, they'd probably use a DID model, not a heiarchical linear model. The ScienceFaily article is just jumping on a tiny part of the report and making it seem like it was the primary finding.

/jesus christ
//researcher


Ah, an article from a journal published by Hindawi. I'm not saying they only publish crap, but their standards are pretty low. Doesn't mean this article is BS, but it's not like it just came out in Science or Nature.
2013-09-13 10:25:24 AM
1 votes:
createfunnyphotos.com
2013-09-13 10:06:07 AM
1 votes:

Joe Blowme: How to stop a bully:
1)Kick them in the nuts/crotch
2)then puch them in the nose


One of the problems with bullies is that the punishment disaster curve starts out steep but quickly levels off. This means the bully has already experienced the penalties the system has to offer, and one more offense in starting a fight isn't going to make much difference on his PERMANENT RECORD. But the bullied kid is likely to care about his record, and so asking them to do that only works if their parents are full-force behind his right to protect himself from future abuse.

It took a long time for abused wives who finally kill their abusers to stop getting instant life-sentences. We as a society are still at the point of asking with shocked faces why the bullied kid shot up his school.
2013-09-13 08:14:30 AM
1 votes:
Spank your children.
If you don't hit them with love,
there will come a time when someone does hit them without it.
2013-09-13 08:02:17 AM
1 votes:

Moonlightfox: The solution to bullying is parenting. How about teach your kids not to be shiatheads to each other?


The parents are the reason the bullies do what they do.  Shiatty, abusive, overly authoritarian parents have kids that crave control over SOMETHING, so they control the pathetic weaklings that are the result of overprotective helicopter parents who don't let their kids toughen up.

Moonfisher: I have my own anti-bullying campaign; I tell my kid to hit back, hit hard, and take the little shiat down. Get that out of the way now, when he's seven and unlikely to get in huge trouble for it and future issues should be few and far between. Standing up to a bully seems to create an invisible badge of confidence that wards others off.


I have taught my daughter how to punch and that she should aim for the bridge of the nose.  Break a bully's nose and he'll never get near you again.
2013-09-13 07:30:28 AM
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: f


I was a child, sir. I didn't have the ability to articulate just how horrendous my situation was. For all the adults knew, I was telling them, individually, that I was being bullied for the first time, or it just recently started. There was no, and still isn't any, system in place in my area to track such problems. I understand you are conserned about an over-abundance of caution, but I see no harm enforcing the rules you expect on a job site, namely no assault, battery, or physchological torture is acceptable in adult society. (I know, exceptions.....exceptions)

A child is expected to go to school to learn, not be tortured, not even for one day. Once is too much, and it needs to be stopped in it's tracks. If you want to teach a child a lesson how to deal with the real world, teach the monster to be a human, and don't leave the farking children to fend for themselves.
2013-09-13 07:25:31 AM
1 votes:

Virtuoso80: I remember getting bullied mercilessly every day at lunch in Junior High. They never got in an inch of trouble (one teacher seemed to think I was annoying for bringing it up). One day, I was bring my lunch tray back to sit down and took my soda can and lightly bonked one of the bullies on the head with it. The dean chewed me out and I nearly got suspended.


Sounds familiar. I was bullied a lot in middle school, being a skinny bookworm and all. Teachers and coaches would witness my torment and just wrote it off as boys will be boys. Finally I slugged one of them and the coach pulled me aside and said, "Why do you have to be so mean?" and I got suspended. Never got bullied again though.

What do parents expect though? Hitting your children "euphemistically called spanking" is perfectly acceptable whenever your child does something you don't agree with but so called bullying in school is a travesty. Stop beating your farking kids and maybe they won't think it's acceptable to beat others.
2013-09-13 07:05:28 AM
1 votes:

jso2897: Behavior between children that would be criminal if they were adult should be treated severely - and as criminal.
Behavior that would not, should be ignored by adult authorities. Kids must learn to deal with things like name-calling, meanness, clique-ishness, and social cruelty. They should never have to deal with physical force or intimidation, and a very strong, broad ethical line must be drawn between those two sorts of things.
Children must develop an sound understanding of when their rights are being violated, and also when they are NOT.


And if they choose to deal with it by swallowing the warm end of gun?

Many kids aren't emotionally stable enough to deal with some of these things on their own. Leaving them to do so is setting them up to fail. Painfully.
2013-09-13 05:39:20 AM
1 votes:
I love the armchair school administrators in here that think, because they've read a few articles, they know exactly how schools operate.
2013-09-13 02:11:34 AM
1 votes:
awesomebmovies.com
2013-09-13 01:59:33 AM
1 votes:

Dedmon: Gyrfalcon: Well, part of the problem too is that nowadays EVERYTHING bad that happens to a picked-upon child is de facto "bullying". Whether it's an actual sequence of deliberate incidents by another kid or group of kids meant to humiliate or demean that child...or a one-time episode of random name-calling; parents, teachers, administrators and other kids run shrieking: "IT WAS BULLYING!!!!"

And, there's no longer any attempt to let kids try to solve the problem themselves first. At the first hint of name calling or wedgie-making SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!!! which may or may not be warranted. Yes, intervention may be needed--but it may just make things that much worse for the picked-on kid, who is now seen as a weakling who can't even fight his/her own battles. Too many adult anti-bullying efforts seem to use a jackhammer when a scalpel is needed.

A bit like most of our efforts to fix anything really.

It was attitudes like yours, coming from the adult supervisors, that nearly lead me to suicide. A member of the Crips was physically and psychologically beating on a 100 lb 13 year old, me, for two solid years of torture. First in homeroom, then in P-E, then after class, every day of the school year. It only stopped when he was sent to prison for rape and attempted 1rst degree murder.

I was 13, 100 lbs, liked video games, playing football with my friends, going hunting or fishing with my family, etc. He was a 16 year old gang member, ripped head to toe, easily 225 lbs,  who just so happened to be a (actually pretty bad) running back for our (very bad) football team. So I went to the adults, most at least attempted to talk to the future murderer out of it, but it of course made it worse. The adults had no tools whatsoever to deal with the situation, something that you seem dead set against remedying. Why? Why does an anti-bullying sentiment offend so many ITGs?


I think I know why. They were bullied as kids, and deep down they wish they could have been the bully instead of the bullied. ITG is the perfect place to vent the pent up angst. If however we are all on here saying shame on the bullies, in a bullied self-loathing kind of way, they want to blame the bullied kid.

and may I add, that was a very touching story. I'm sorry the adults in your life failed you.
2013-09-13 01:24:38 AM
1 votes:

Moonfisher: I have my own anti-bullying campaign; I tell my kid to hit back, hit hard, and take the little shiat down.


And if the bully is larger, stronger (often older) and much more experienced at this sort of thing?
2013-09-13 12:46:02 AM
1 votes:
2013-09-13 12:44:53 AM
1 votes:

wiwille: Wouldn't it stand to reason that they've instigated anti-bullying programs because bullying was such a problem? The other schools didn't, because there wasn't a problem to begin with?

/Tired.


Or more victims of bullying come forward where a program is instituted which tells them how to deal with bullying.

Seriously, here's the HSBC form  that they've based the study on:
http://www.hbsc.org/documents/2005_06%20HBSC%20Mandatory%20Questionn ai re%20Variable%20List.pdf

The two questions that relate to bullying are "Have you been bullied in the past two months" and "Have you bullied others" - it doesn't appear that they actually define what "bullying" counts as, leaving it to the kid filling out the survey to decide what it means. If you'd been taught that name calling and social media attacks are also bullying you'd be more likely to mark the box than if you only thought that someone beating you up counted. I can't see the actual study, but if that's all they're basing it on, it might be something interesting to explore further, but it would be shoddy to infer that the programs themselves lead to more actual bullying (rather than just more percieved bullying) without further evidence.
2013-09-13 12:35:36 AM
1 votes:
I'm up to SNME #14 from 1/2/88
Then it's the 1988 Royal Rumble and Bunkhouse Stampede 1988.
I don't have time for TNA.
2013-09-13 12:34:09 AM
1 votes:
Needs "Stupid" tag.
2013-09-13 12:30:41 AM
1 votes:
And cancer leads to cellphones.
2013-09-13 12:30:18 AM
1 votes:

dv-ous: Ironic? Apparently the "Obvious" tag was busy getting beaten up in the locker room.

Those anti-bullying campaigns are fairy-dust. They're completely full of shiat, ignore fundamental aspects of human nature, and are halfheartedly spoonfed to kids who know it's complete BS, by teachers who know it's complete BS.


my baby brother, who's a sophomore now, is so proud of himself for letting the ... mentally challenged?... girl sit with them this week
he constantly brags about how awesome they all are for putting up with her outburts
it's a condescending type of forced PC-ness

they haven't learned any lessons, they've just learned the language.
little shiats.
2013-09-13 12:28:16 AM
1 votes:
The solution to bullying is parenting. How about teach your kids not to be shiatheads to each other?
2013-09-13 12:24:10 AM
1 votes:
* Give them a trip to the hospital.


/It's the only way
 
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