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(The New York Times)   NYT editorial on Colorado voters, who had the unmitigated gall to recall two state senators for their position on gun control: "STOP LIKING WHAT WE DON'T LIKE"   (nytimes.com) divider line 307
    More: Amusing, Hard Lessons, NYT, Colorado, gun controls, state senators, Colorado General Assembly, school massacre, editorials  
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1636 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Sep 2013 at 1:14 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-12 10:02:24 PM
I just love the ten dollar tax for pawning a firearm.
 
2013-09-12 10:14:21 PM
gun laws that allow tens of thousands of deaths each year.
How does a law allow a death? Aren't there laws against murder already?
 
2013-09-12 10:54:36 PM

dj_bigbird: gun laws that allow tens of thousands of deaths each year.
How does a law allow a death? Aren't there laws against murder already?


More availability of firearms means more gun violence.  Sure, the actions are ultimately the fault of the person pulling the trigger, but helping to limit the availability of firearms to those who shouldn't have them and making it harder to conduct mass shootings by enforcing clip/magazine limits are both noble goals.

It is sickening that the NRA decided to target two dedicated public servants for ouster, and that the people of Colorado chose to embrace violence and wanton disregard for human suffering over responsible firearm safety legislation.

The NRA is far too powerful, and the role they play is entirely due to profits from gun and ammo manufacturers and dealers, there's nothing honorable about their endeavors.  We've lost far more important rights to privacy and protection from unreasonable search and seizure due to the constant erosion of the 4th amendment, but there's no giant lobby to fight against that because there's no money in it.

This recall was a tragic defeat for the welfare of the people of Colorado, with the only victors being merchants of death.
 
2013-09-12 10:58:18 PM
tl;dr
 
2013-09-12 11:05:40 PM

TuteTibiImperes: It is sickening that the NRA decided to target two dedicated public servants for ouster, and that the people of Colorado chose to embrace violence and wanton disregard for human suffering over responsible firearm safety legislation.


Colorado resident here: The NRA was a very late arrival in this. Residents of Pueblo started talking about a recall the day after Giron voted for that law.

Pueblo voted for Obama by 20 percent over Romney, but Democrats guessed wrong when they assumed blue-collar union Democrats would sit still over this law.

Wanna snivel about the NRA? How about the fact that money from PACs and other concerned Americans like George Soros came in to Colorado to try to stop the recalls to the tune of nearly $4 million -- almost ten times what the ones who started the recall were able to raise.

Sometimes voters vote for what they actually care about -- you can't always blame evil lobbyists for misleading the sheep.
 
2013-09-12 11:25:58 PM

Sensei Can You See: TuteTibiImperes: It is sickening that the NRA decided to target two dedicated public servants for ouster, and that the people of Colorado chose to embrace violence and wanton disregard for human suffering over responsible firearm safety legislation.

Colorado resident here: The NRA was a very late arrival in this. Residents of Pueblo started talking about a recall the day after Giron voted for that law.

Pueblo voted for Obama by 20 percent over Romney, but Democrats guessed wrong when they assumed blue-collar union Democrats would sit still over this law.

Wanna snivel about the NRA? How about the fact that money from PACs and other concerned Americans like George Soros came in to Colorado to try to stop the recalls to the tune of nearly $4 million -- almost ten times what the ones who started the recall were able to raise.

Sometimes voters vote for what they actually care about -- you can't always blame evil lobbyists for misleading the sheep.


I can still blame the NRA for leading people to believe that guns are inherently safe and that things like enhanced background checks and magazine/clip limits don't help.

There was also some funny business in the polls, like a libertarian candidate who registered after the deadline pulling shenanigans to get mail-in votes invalidated, and cars full of thugs intimidating voters.
 
2013-09-12 11:38:56 PM
Angela Jiron won by 71%.
 
2013-09-13 12:07:26 AM

Sensei Can You See: TuteTibiImperes: It is sickening that the NRA decided to target two dedicated public servants for ouster, and that the people of Colorado chose to embrace violence and wanton disregard for human suffering over responsible firearm safety legislation.

Colorado resident here: The NRA was a very late arrival in this. Residents of Pueblo started talking about a recall the day after Giron voted for that law.

Pueblo voted for Obama by 20 percent over Romney, but Democrats guessed wrong when they assumed blue-collar union Democrats would sit still over this law.

Wanna snivel about the NRA? How about the fact that money from PACs and other concerned Americans like George Soros came in to Colorado to try to stop the recalls to the tune of nearly $4 million -- almost ten times what the ones who started the recall were able to raise.

Sometimes voters vote for what they actually care about -- you can't always blame evil lobbyists for misleading the sheep.


Soros?

Drink!
 
2013-09-13 12:13:14 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Sensei Can You See: TuteTibiImperes: It is sickening that the NRA decided to target two dedicated public servants for ouster, and that the people of Colorado chose to embrace violence and wanton disregard for human suffering over responsible firearm safety legislation.

Colorado resident here: The NRA was a very late arrival in this. Residents of Pueblo started talking about a recall the day after Giron voted for that law.

Pueblo voted for Obama by 20 percent over Romney, but Democrats guessed wrong when they assumed blue-collar union Democrats would sit still over this law.

Wanna snivel about the NRA? How about the fact that money from PACs and other concerned Americans like George Soros came in to Colorado to try to stop the recalls to the tune of nearly $4 million -- almost ten times what the ones who started the recall were able to raise.

Sometimes voters vote for what they actually care about -- you can't always blame evil lobbyists for misleading the sheep.

I can still blame the NRA for leading people to believe that guns are inherently safe and that things like enhanced background checks and magazine/clip limits don't help.

There was also some funny business in the polls, like a libertarian candidate who registered after the deadline pulling shenanigans to get mail-in votes invalidated, and cars full of thugs intimidating voters.


So the outcome of this vote has to be because of NRA lobbying, ballot shenanigans, and intimidation.

Not because, you know, the majority of voters in those districts disagree with your view.

Nice worldview you got there.

*makes twirling motion near temple with finger*
 
2013-09-13 12:14:47 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Sensei Can You See: TuteTibiImperes: It is sickening that the NRA decided to target two dedicated public servants for ouster, and that the people of Colorado chose to embrace violence and wanton disregard for human suffering over responsible firearm safety legislation.

Colorado resident here: The NRA was a very late arrival in this. Residents of Pueblo started talking about a recall the day after Giron voted for that law.

Pueblo voted for Obama by 20 percent over Romney, but Democrats guessed wrong when they assumed blue-collar union Democrats would sit still over this law.

Wanna snivel about the NRA? How about the fact that money from PACs and other concerned Americans like George Soros came in to Colorado to try to stop the recalls to the tune of nearly $4 million -- almost ten times what the ones who started the recall were able to raise.

Sometimes voters vote for what they actually care about -- you can't always blame evil lobbyists for misleading the sheep.

I can still blame the NRA for leading people to believe that guns are inherently safe and that things like enhanced background checks and magazine/clip limits don't help.

There was also some funny business in the polls, like a libertarian candidate who registered after the deadline pulling shenanigans to get mail-in votes invalidated, and cars full of thugs intimidating voters.


Yes the NRA, and not years of experience and culture, is the only reason people smarter than you don't fear guns irrationally.
 
2013-09-13 12:21:32 AM

Sensei Can You See: Wanna snivel about the NRA? How about the fact that money from PACs and other concerned Americans like George Soros came in to Colorado to try to stop the recalls to the tune of nearly $4 million -- almost ten times what the ones who started the recall were able to raise.


Welcome to life in John Roberts' America.  The pattern was the exact opposite in the Wisconsin recalls.  Now that money equals speech, the rich and the interest groups no longer have to honor democratic elections.  You can simply start throwing money around, grab enough sigs for a recall petition, and let public relations handle the rest.
 
2013-09-13 12:23:50 AM

TuteTibiImperes: dj_bigbird: gun laws that allow tens of thousands of deaths each year.
How does a law allow a death? Aren't there laws against murder already?

More availability of firearms means more gun violence.  Sure, the actions are ultimately the fault of the person pulling the trigger, but helping to limit the availability of firearms to those who shouldn't have them and making it harder to conduct mass shootings by enforcing clip/magazine limits are both noble goals.

It is sickening that the NRA decided to target two dedicated public servants for ouster, and that the people of Colorado chose to embrace violence and wanton disregard for human suffering over responsible firearm safety legislation.

The NRA is far too powerful, and the role they play is entirely due to profits from gun and ammo manufacturers and dealers, there's nothing honorable about their endeavors.  We've lost far more important rights to privacy and protection from unreasonable search and seizure due to the constant erosion of the 4th amendment, but there's no giant lobby to fight against that because there's no money in it.

This recall was a tragic defeat for the welfare of the people of Colorado, with the only victors being merchants of death.


Well said.
 
2013-09-13 12:25:45 AM

Mentat: Sensei Can You See: Wanna snivel about the NRA? How about the fact that money from PACs and other concerned Americans like George Soros came in to Colorado to try to stop the recalls to the tune of nearly $4 million -- almost ten times what the ones who started the recall were able to raise.

Welcome to life in John Roberts' America.  The pattern was the exact opposite in the Wisconsin recalls.  Now that money equals speech, the rich and the interest groups no longer have to honor democratic elections.  You can simply start throwing money around, grab enough sigs for a recall petition, and let public relations handle the rest.


That's what really makes me sick, Walker, who was, and still is, doing immeasurable harm to the people of his state through his anti-worker policies, gets off, while a couple of politicians who decided to do the right thing even though they knew it might be unpopular get raked over the coals, it's ridiculous.

Elegy:
So the outcome of this vote has to be because of NRA lobbying, ballot shenanigans, and intimidation.

Not because, you know, the majority of voters in those districts disagree with your view.

Nice worldview you got there.

*makes twirling motion near temple with finger*


The majority of the voters in those districts elected those people, and they decided to get rid of them over minor restrictions on a single issue, yes, that makes it seem to me like outside forces were in play.
 
2013-09-13 12:28:04 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Sensei Can You See: TuteTibiImperes: It is sickening that the NRA decided to target two dedicated public servants for ouster, and that the people of Colorado chose to embrace violence and wanton disregard for human suffering over responsible firearm safety legislation.

Colorado resident here: The NRA was a very late arrival in this. Residents of Pueblo started talking about a recall the day after Giron voted for that law.

Pueblo voted for Obama by 20 percent over Romney, but Democrats guessed wrong when they assumed blue-collar union Democrats would sit still over this law.

Wanna snivel about the NRA? How about the fact that money from PACs and other concerned Americans like George Soros came in to Colorado to try to stop the recalls to the tune of nearly $4 million -- almost ten times what the ones who started the recall were able to raise.

Sometimes voters vote for what they actually care about -- you can't always blame evil lobbyists for misleading the sheep.

I can still blame the NRA for leading people to believe that guns are inherently safe and that things like enhanced background checks and magazine/clip limits don't help.

There was also some funny business in the polls, like a libertarian candidate who registered after the deadline pulling shenanigans to get mail-in votes invalidated, and cars full of thugs intimidating voters.


Former Senator Giron, is that you?
 
2013-09-13 12:30:48 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Mentat: Sensei Can You See: Wanna snivel about the NRA? How about the fact that money from PACs and other concerned Americans like George Soros came in to Colorado to try to stop the recalls to the tune of nearly $4 million -- almost ten times what the ones who started the recall were able to raise.

Welcome to life in John Roberts' America.  The pattern was the exact opposite in the Wisconsin recalls.  Now that money equals speech, the rich and the interest groups no longer have to honor democratic elections.  You can simply start throwing money around, grab enough sigs for a recall petition, and let public relations handle the rest.

That's what really makes me sick, Walker, who was, and still is, doing immeasurable harm to the people of his state through his anti-worker policies, gets off, while a couple of politicians who decided to do the right thing even though they knew it might be unpopular get raked over the coals, it's ridiculous.

Elegy:
So the outcome of this vote has to be because of NRA lobbying, ballot shenanigans, and intimidation.

Not because, you know, the majority of voters in those districts disagree with your view.

Nice worldview you got there.

*makes twirling motion near temple with finger*

The majority of the voters in those districts elected those people, and they decided to get rid of them over minor restrictions on a single issue, yes, that makes it seem to me like outside forces were in play.


Minor to whom?
 
2013-09-13 12:32:47 AM

doglover: TuteTibiImperes: Mentat: Sensei Can You See: Wanna snivel about the NRA? How about the fact that money from PACs and other concerned Americans like George Soros came in to Colorado to try to stop the recalls to the tune of nearly $4 million -- almost ten times what the ones who started the recall were able to raise.

Welcome to life in John Roberts' America.  The pattern was the exact opposite in the Wisconsin recalls.  Now that money equals speech, the rich and the interest groups no longer have to honor democratic elections.  You can simply start throwing money around, grab enough sigs for a recall petition, and let public relations handle the rest.

That's what really makes me sick, Walker, who was, and still is, doing immeasurable harm to the people of his state through his anti-worker policies, gets off, while a couple of politicians who decided to do the right thing even though they knew it might be unpopular get raked over the coals, it's ridiculous.

Elegy:
So the outcome of this vote has to be because of NRA lobbying, ballot shenanigans, and intimidation.

Not because, you know, the majority of voters in those districts disagree with your view.

Nice worldview you got there.

*makes twirling motion near temple with finger*

The majority of the voters in those districts elected those people, and they decided to get rid of them over minor restrictions on a single issue, yes, that makes it seem to me like outside forces were in play.

Minor to whom?


Minor to any reasonable person who realizes that going through a background check to buy a gun and only loading 15 bullets at a time are in no way infringements on any fundamental rights.
 
2013-09-13 12:35:28 AM

Sensei Can You See: TuteTibiImperes: It is sickening that the NRA decided to target two dedicated public servants for ouster, and that the people of Colorado chose to embrace violence and wanton disregard for human suffering over responsible firearm safety legislation.

Colorado resident here: The NRA was a very late arrival in this. Residents of Pueblo started talking about a recall the day after Giron voted for that law.
...
Sometimes voters vote for what they actually care about -- you can't always blame evil lobbyists for misleading the sheep.


Redux:  wanton disregard for human suffering can be bottom-up
 
2013-09-13 12:36:35 AM
doglover:

Yes the NRA NPR, and not years of experience and culture, is the only reason people smarter than you don't fear guns gun control laws irrationally.

FTFY
 
2013-09-13 12:37:36 AM
Ah yes, the second amendment:

"The rights of the people to keep and bear single shot muskets for hunting will be acceptable only after extensive background checks and subject to cosmetic regulation and kept in an armory at the local militia HQ."

How silly of me to forget the constitution.
 
2013-09-13 12:41:57 AM

TuteTibiImperes: That's what really makes me sick, Walker, who was, and still is, doing immeasurable harm to the people of his state through his anti-worker policies, gets off, while a couple of politicians who decided to do the right thing even though they knew it might be unpopular get raked over the coals, it's ridiculous.

[...]

The majority of the voters in those districts elected those people, and they decided to get rid of them over minor restrictions on a single issue, yes, that makes it seem to me like outside forces were in play.


First you say that the representatives in question knew that the measures they were voting for we're unpopular with their constituents, yet you insist that some outside conspiracy is responsible for their recall even though you JUST ADMITTED that both politicians in question knew that the measures they voted for wouldn't be popular with the people they represent.

Pretty sure you just went full retard.
 
2013-09-13 12:47:01 AM

Sensei Can You See: you can't always blame evil lobbyists for misleading the sheep


Unless they have ties to Soros, apparently
 
2013-09-13 12:47:31 AM
The bottom line is that these seats will remain in Democratic hands, the gun control laws will remain on the books, one of the State Senators in question was going to retire anyway, and the emerging Democratic majority of young and minority Americans remain against gun proliferation.

Link
 
2013-09-13 12:50:00 AM

Elegy: TuteTibiImperes: That's what really makes me sick, Walker, who was, and still is, doing immeasurable harm to the people of his state through his anti-worker policies, gets off, while a couple of politicians who decided to do the right thing even though they knew it might be unpopular get raked over the coals, it's ridiculous.

[...]

The majority of the voters in those districts elected those people, and they decided to get rid of them over minor restrictions on a single issue, yes, that makes it seem to me like outside forces were in play.

First you say that the representatives in question knew that the measures they were voting for we're unpopular with their constituents, yet you insist that some outside conspiracy is responsible for their recall even though you JUST ADMITTED that both politicians in question knew that the measures they voted for wouldn't be popular with the people they represent.

Pretty sure you just went full retard.


Not at all.  No one can expect to agree with 100% of what their elected officials do, but they trust them to generally uphold the positions they've campaigned on and act in the best interests of their constituents.  Reasonable adults don't throw hissy fits and demand people leave office over a single controversial, necessary, but unpopular position.
 
2013-09-13 12:55:09 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: The bottom line is that these seats will remain in Democratic hands, the gun control laws will remain on the books, one of the State Senators in question was going to retire anyway, and the emerging Democratic majority of young and minority Americans remain against gun proliferation.

Link


Good points, and one can only hope that the younger voters are as outraged over these recalls as they should be and come out in force in the next general election to make their voices heard and put more progressives into office in CO.

History will prove the GOP wrong on the gun issue just as it has on every other position they hold sacred.
 
2013-09-13 12:59:22 AM

Sensei Can You See: Wanna snivel about the NRA?


How very adult of you. Criticism of the NRA is "sniveling".
 
2013-09-13 01:02:28 AM

mediablitz: Sensei Can You See: Wanna snivel about the NRA?

How very adult of you. Criticism of the NRA is "sniveling".


Maybe that's what criticism means to him.  He literally cannot disagree without simultaneously sniveling.
 
2013-09-13 01:07:14 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Elegy: TuteTibiImperes: That's what really makes me sick, Walker, who was, and still is, doing immeasurable harm to the people of his state through his anti-worker policies, gets off, while a couple of politicians who decided to do the right thing even though they knew it might be unpopular get raked over the coals, it's ridiculous.

[...]

The majority of the voters in those districts elected those people, and they decided to get rid of them over minor restrictions on a single issue, yes, that makes it seem to me like outside forces were in play.

First you say that the representatives in question knew that the measures they were voting for we're unpopular with their constituents, yet you insist that some outside conspiracy is responsible for their recall even though you JUST ADMITTED that both politicians in question knew that the measures they voted for wouldn't be popular with the people they represent.

Pretty sure you just went full retard.

Not at all.  No one can expect to agree with 100% of what their elected officials do, but they trust them to generally uphold the positions they've campaigned on and act in the best interests of their constituents.  Reasonable adults don't throw hissy fits and demand people leave office over a single controversial, necessary, but unpopular position.


The question of its necessity is for the voters to decide. It seems that they decided to send a strong message about how they feel about the necessity of these particular measures. The ability to remove someone from office that is passing unpopular measures for "people's own good" is a positive feature of democracy, and reasonable adults engage in politics when there is an issue that motivates them enough to get out and vote.

First time in my life I've seen voting described as "throwing a hissy fit."
 
2013-09-13 01:12:03 AM

Elegy: First time in my life I've seen voting described as "throwing a hissy fit."


Recall elections are hissy fits, at least the way they're used today.  Starting with Gray Davis' recall (and really, with Clinton's impeachment), the recall has become about punishing someone for being in the wrong party instead punishing them for crimes or gross negligence.  Now that both sides have used it for the wrong purposes, the tactic is going to escalate just like is has for the filibuster and confirmations.  The way recalls are being used now is destabilizing and it's only going to get worse thanks to John Roberts.
 
2013-09-13 01:19:12 AM
*crickets*
 
2013-09-13 01:27:42 AM
Welcome to USA Corp.
 
2013-09-13 01:29:06 AM
What little I've heard on this topic was that it wouldn't actually change anything in Colorado.  But the NRA is hoping  that Fear of them spreads to the other 49 states.

I also heard that the first ever recall of a state representative was 100 years ago, and half of all recall attempts have been in the past 2 years.
 
2013-09-13 01:33:22 AM
What an obnoxious and ignorant 'editorial'.

Here is some reality for the prohibitionist crowd. THOUSANDS of Democrats physically went to the polls and voted for a Republican to replace Angela Giron. A district that went for Obama by 20%!!! And the Democrat lost by double digits. Thousands of Democrats decided that their current Democratic representative was failing in representing them and they chose to vote for a Republican.

If Colorado Dems don't heed the warning and stop listening to douchebag New Yorkers, they are in for disaster in 2014.
 
2013-09-13 01:35:23 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: The bottom line is that these seats will remain in Democratic hands, the gun control laws will remain on the books, one of the State Senators in question was going to retire anyway, and the emerging Democratic majority of young and minority Americans remain against gun proliferation.

Link


www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com
 
2013-09-13 01:37:41 AM

Alphax: What little I've heard on this topic was that it wouldn't actually change anything in Colorado.  But the NRA is hoping  that Fear of them spreads to the other 49 states.

I also heard that the first ever recall of a state representative was 100 years ago, and half of all recall attempts have been in the past 2 years.


Hope this crap doesn't carry to MO after Nixon vetoed that blatantly unconstitutional gun law invalidating Federal gun laws.
 
2013-09-13 01:38:51 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: The bottom line is that these seats will remain in Democratic hands, the gun control laws will remain on the books, one of the State Senators in question was going to retire anyway, and the emerging Democratic majority of young and minority Americans remain against gun proliferation.

Link


It's almost like there are gun-owning democrats in the state.
 
2013-09-13 01:39:29 AM
This is one issue where both sides are actually obnoxious.

I understand why people want to have guns and I see no reason why they shouldn't, but it shouldn't be an unregulated free-for-all either.
 
2013-09-13 01:40:18 AM

Mentat: Elegy: First time in my life I've seen voting described as "throwing a hissy fit."

Recall elections are hissy fits, at least the way they're used today.  Starting with Gray Davis' recall (and really, with Clinton's impeachment), the recall has become about punishing someone for being in the wrong party instead punishing them for crimes or gross negligence.  Now that both sides have used it for the wrong purposes, the tactic is going to escalate just like is has for the filibuster and confirmations.  The way recalls are being used now is destabilizing and it's only going to get worse thanks to John Roberts.


Well said.
 
2013-09-13 01:43:05 AM
Extended background checks? Why on earth would they want that?

assets.nydailynews.comcdn.fd.uproxx.com
 
2013-09-13 01:44:44 AM

Ow! That was my feelings!: What an obnoxious and ignorant 'editorial'.

Here is some reality for the prohibitionist crowd. THOUSANDS of Democrats physically went to the polls and voted for a Republican to replace Angela Giron. A district that went for Obama by 20%!!! And the Democrat lost by double digits. Thousands of Democrats decided that their current Democratic representative was failing in representing them and they chose to vote for a Republican.

If Colorado Dems don't heed the warning and stop listening to douchebag New Yorkers, they are in for disaster in 2014.


Gun rights voters are the most pigheaded and obnoxious of single issue voters out there.  No one was trying to take their guns away, they only made reasonable regulations to help limit the chance of public massacres at the hands of criminals.  The regulations in no way would have hurt those using guns for protection, sport, or recreation.

Instead they chose to oust two dedicated public officials and replace them with Republicans who, while they may be all for their right to own whatever implements of death they want, will also work to sell them out to corporations, limit their employee rights, cut funds to education and public services so that their corporate bosses can buy another yacht, and limit the rights of women, minorities, and voters they dislike.  Hell of a bargain dickweasles, let's see how you like it when the bill comes due.
 
2013-09-13 01:48:15 AM
And let me say something about John Hickenlooper. I voted for him. I believed he was a centrist. A 'moderate'. I was wrong.

He is nothing more than a White House lackey and a leftwing rubber stamp for the temporary Democratic majority in the legislature. He could have avoided all this shiat if he had the stones to veto the Mag Ban. But nope, he's nothing but a weak puppet. Lucky for him the Repubs have nobody, otherwise his ass would be gone too.
 
2013-09-13 01:51:10 AM

doglover: TuteTibiImperes: Mentat: Sensei Can You See: Wanna snivel about the NRA? How about the fact that money from PACs and other concerned Americans like George Soros came in to Colorado to try to stop the recalls to the tune of nearly $4 million -- almost ten times what the ones who started the recall were able to raise.

Welcome to life in John Roberts' America.  The pattern was the exact opposite in the Wisconsin recalls.  Now that money equals speech, the rich and the interest groups no longer have to honor democratic elections.  You can simply start throwing money around, grab enough sigs for a recall petition, and let public relations handle the rest.

That's what really makes me sick, Walker, who was, and still is, doing immeasurable harm to the people of his state through his anti-worker policies, gets off, while a couple of politicians who decided to do the right thing even though they knew it might be unpopular get raked over the coals, it's ridiculous.

Elegy:
So the outcome of this vote has to be because of NRA lobbying, ballot shenanigans, and intimidation.

Not because, you know, the majority of voters in those districts disagree with your view.

Nice worldview you got there.

*makes twirling motion near temple with finger*

The majority of the voters in those districts elected those people, and they decided to get rid of them over minor restrictions on a single issue, yes, that makes it seem to me like outside forces were in play.

Minor to whom?


You are asking the question of an individual who advocates banning most firearm models, who advocates banning handloading of ammunition by private citizens and who advocates repealing all existing concealed weapons permit statutes and revoking all existing permits despite no legitimate reason to do so. Any legislative act that does not confiscate firearms is a "minor inconvenience" to such an authoritarian.
 
2013-09-13 01:52:33 AM

Dimensio: You are asking the question of an individual who advocates banning most firearm models, who advocates banning handloading of ammunition by private citizens and who advocates repealing all existing concealed weapons permit statutes and revoking all existing permits despite no legitimate reason to do so. Any legislative act that does not confiscate firearms is a "minor inconvenience" to such an authoritarian.


Citations needed on.. fark, all of it.
 
2013-09-13 01:53:00 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Ow! That was my feelings!: What an obnoxious and ignorant 'editorial'.

Here is some reality for the prohibitionist crowd. THOUSANDS of Democrats physically went to the polls and voted for a Republican to replace Angela Giron. A district that went for Obama by 20%!!! And the Democrat lost by double digits. Thousands of Democrats decided that their current Democratic representative was failing in representing them and they chose to vote for a Republican.

If Colorado Dems don't heed the warning and stop listening to douchebag New Yorkers, they are in for disaster in 2014.

Gun rights voters are the most pigheaded and obnoxious of single issue voters out there.  No one was trying to take their guns away, they only made reasonable regulations to help limit the chance of public massacres at the hands of criminals.  The regulations in no way would have hurt those using guns for protection, sport, or recreation.

Instead they chose to oust two dedicated public officials and replace them with Republicans who, while they may be all for their right to own whatever implements of death they want, will also work to sell them out to corporations, limit their employee rights, cut funds to education and public services so that their corporate bosses can buy another yacht, and limit the rights of women, minorities, and voters they dislike.  Hell of a bargain dickweasles, let's see how you like it when the bill comes due.


You don't know shiat, dude. This is way beyond the gun issue now. THOUSANDS of registered Democrats came out to vote for a Republican. You only see the gun issue, but take a deep breath and realize that Dems in Colorado are turning on their own party. Only brainless out of staters foolishly boil this down to just guns.
 
2013-09-13 01:54:05 AM

Alphax: Dimensio: You are asking the question of an individual who advocates banning most firearm models, who advocates banning handloading of ammunition by private citizens and who advocates repealing all existing concealed weapons permit statutes and revoking all existing permits despite no legitimate reason to do so. Any legislative act that does not confiscate firearms is a "minor inconvenience" to such an authoritarian.

Citations needed on.. fark, all of it.


See discussion 7852100
 
2013-09-13 01:55:42 AM

Ow! That was my feelings!: TuteTibiImperes: Ow! That was my feelings!: What an obnoxious and ignorant 'editorial'.

Here is some reality for the prohibitionist crowd. THOUSANDS of Democrats physically went to the polls and voted for a Republican to replace Angela Giron. A district that went for Obama by 20%!!! And the Democrat lost by double digits. Thousands of Democrats decided that their current Democratic representative was failing in representing them and they chose to vote for a Republican.

If Colorado Dems don't heed the warning and stop listening to douchebag New Yorkers, they are in for disaster in 2014.

Gun rights voters are the most pigheaded and obnoxious of single issue voters out there.  No one was trying to take their guns away, they only made reasonable regulations to help limit the chance of public massacres at the hands of criminals.  The regulations in no way would have hurt those using guns for protection, sport, or recreation.

Instead they chose to oust two dedicated public officials and replace them with Republicans who, while they may be all for their right to own whatever implements of death they want, will also work to sell them out to corporations, limit their employee rights, cut funds to education and public services so that their corporate bosses can buy another yacht, and limit the rights of women, minorities, and voters they dislike.  Hell of a bargain dickweasles, let's see how you like it when the bill comes due.

You don't know shiat, dude. This is way beyond the gun issue now. THOUSANDS of registered Democrats came out to vote for a Republican. You only see the gun issue, but take a deep breath and realize that Dems in Colorado are turning on their own party. Only brainless out of staters foolishly boil this down to just guns.


What were the other issues?  I'm  honestly curious.
 
2013-09-13 01:58:40 AM
Meanwhile at NPR: Crickets ?
 
2013-09-13 02:01:20 AM

Alphax: Dimensio: You are asking the question of an individual who advocates banning most firearm models, who advocates banning handloading of ammunition by private citizens and who advocates repealing all existing concealed weapons permit statutes and revoking all existing permits despite no legitimate reason to do so. Any legislative act that does not confiscate firearms is a "minor inconvenience" to such an authoritarian.

Citations needed on.. fark, all of it.


Well, he's mis-stating some of it.

In a perfect world I would like to see most firearms banned, all ammunition serialized and tracked (which would require a ban on hand loading), all guns registered, and conceal carry permits issued only to those who can prove a necessity due to professional need or abnormally high security concerns.  I've never advocated just confiscating everyone's guns, but rather offering a mandatory buyback program in which owners would be paid fair market value for any in their possession that aren't legal under the new regulations.

Now, that position may seem extreme, but it's similar to the systems in place in multiple European countries, including Germany which still has an active hunting and sport shooting community.  Those countries also have gun violence rates far below ours per capita.    I personally believe those to be reasonable trade-offs, but I realize that such a position is unfortunately fairly radical in the US.  I would expect anyone proposing that today in legislation to receive a warm welcome in a traditionally gun-friendly area.

The regulations proposed in CO were in no way close to what I'd like to see, and didn't really limit owners much at all, it was a complete over-reaction to try to recall anyone over it.
 
2013-09-13 02:02:29 AM
Dear gun grabbers,

Suck my balls.....yeah, you love that salty goodness, don't you?
 
2013-09-13 02:03:00 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Now, that position may seem extreme


The position "seems" extreme because it is extreme and unreasonable. Citing the Violence Policy Center as a means of justifying your authoritarianism is no more reasonable than is citing the National Riffle Association when advocating a complete elimination of all firearm regulation.
 
2013-09-13 02:03:28 AM
The Democrats are going to lose lots of seats in 2014 and 2016 over gun control.  It is not a coincidence that when they shut up about guns, they started to make gains.  The opposite will also prove to be true, unfortunately.
 
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