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(MCV (UK))   The one true WoW-killer has reared its head. F2P games   (mcvuk.com) divider line 129
    More: Interesting, F2P, World of Warcraft, CVG, critical mass  
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4855 clicks; posted to Business » on 12 Sep 2013 at 6:09 PM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-12 04:52:46 PM
I thought it was because the content well dried up and the people now working on it can't think of any original ideas.
 
2013-09-12 05:10:05 PM
Yes.  No.  Maybe.
 
2013-09-12 05:13:17 PM
On a related note, The Elder Scrolls Online will be a subscription model like WoW, which has a lot of people upset and/or worried.

I discuss the issue in the linked video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa0LvyotXrw
 
2013-09-12 05:15:12 PM

RedPhoenix122: I thought it was because the content well dried up and the people now working on it can't think of any original ideas.


i think you are more correct than F2P being WoW killers.  As much as they want to wrap it in a new package, it's really the same old crap "Go here, kill X of those things, come back to me" - "go over there, click Y of those glowing objects, come back to me"  and everything they add is just a grind.

Some F2P rely too heavily on the real money items being necessary to play.  You want more bag slots, fark you, pay me.  you want a faster mount, fark you, pay me.  you want to interact with other human beings, fark you, pay me.
 
2013-09-12 05:21:13 PM

ManateeGag: Some F2P rely too heavily on the real money items being necessary to play. You want more bag slots, fark you, pay me. you want a faster mount, fark you, pay me. you want to interact with other human beings, fark you, pay me.


I've only played one F2P game, Spartacus: Legends. And they did a pretty good job on it. Of course it does have that look of being made on a F2P budget, but I was able to fully beat the game without spending a dime. Yea, it would've been a little easier if I ponied up some dough, but it was never a necessity or requirement to get through a part of the game.

Only reason I downloaded it was because I loved the TV show, but I was impressed by how much fun it was. And pretty damn gory too (you can do the face-slice-off like he did to the big guy in the show, or for people who haven't seen it, Taye Diggs in Equilibrium).
 
2013-09-12 05:26:18 PM
I really dislike this article.  WoW had a new expansion come out 12 months ago.  Comparing revenue to today to 7 months ago is pretty arbitrary and deceptive.
 
2013-09-12 05:29:55 PM

RedPhoenix122: I thought it was because the content well dried up and the people now working on it can't think of any original ideas.


that's why i left. pandas? really?
 
2013-09-12 05:37:56 PM

FlashHarry: RedPhoenix122: I thought it was because the content well dried up and the people now working on it can't think of any original ideas.

that's why i left. pandas? really?


Kung-fu pandas at that.
 
2013-09-12 06:06:02 PM
I left because I was tired of doing millions of the same dailies and bored doing the same dungeons. You can only level so many toons up, too.
 
2013-09-12 06:26:11 PM
SWTOR wants me to pay them a couple bucks for an extra hotbar.

I'm willing to put up with quite a bit from a F2P game, but that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
 
2013-09-12 06:29:00 PM
I'm not necessarily opposed to paying a subscription but I would like to feel as though I am getting my money's worth.  SWTOR had potential but ultimately the execution was flawed.  Perhaps Elder Scrolls will be more satisfying.
 
2013-09-12 06:32:19 PM
Planetside 2 is one of those games that gets F2P right in my opinion. You earn certs from playing, logging in, etc. You can use the certs to buy weapons, attachments, ability upgrades, so on and so on. People that do the optional subscription will get certs a little faster and earn more every 24 hours. You also have the option of buying station cash to purchase the stuff.

The thing is this: different weapons are just that: different. Not better or worse, just more suited to how you want to play.
 
2013-09-12 06:35:44 PM

ManateeGag: RedPhoenix122: I thought it was because the content well dried up and the people now working on it can't think of any original ideas.

i think you are more correct than F2P being WoW killers.  As much as they want to wrap it in a new package, it's really the same old crap "Go here, kill X of those things, come back to me" - "go over there, click Y of those glowing objects, come back to me"  and everything they add is just a grind.

Some F2P rely too heavily on the real money items being necessary to play.  You want more bag slots, fark you, pay me.  you want a faster mount, fark you, pay me.  you want to interact with other human beings, fark you, pay me.


One of the things I liked about LOTRO is that it's entirely possible to unlock all the content without spending a single dime.  It takes a while to do those deeds over and over again across characters, but patience and dedication can allow the player to unlock all features and even expansions for free.
 
2013-09-12 06:45:39 PM

RedPhoenix122: I thought it was because the content well dried up and the people now working on it can't think of any original ideas.


Done in one.
Their last expansion was based on what at one time was joke content, and rather than any attempt to, you know, write a good story, they keep making historic faction heroes into villains in order for it to be "meaningful", as if they're trying to replicate Arthas's character arc in as many ways as possible. Fully expect to see them turn Sylvanas into a raid boss if they keep producing content.
Dunno why the Horde even bothers, really. Trolls didn't get Zul'jin to begin with, Orcs lost Thrall and Grom, Belfs never got Kael'thas, Cairn Bloodhoof was killed off-screen to be replaced by identical son...
 
2013-09-12 06:45:47 PM

Beerguy: On a related note, The Elder Scrolls Online will be a subscription model like WoW, which has a lot of people upset and/or worried.

I discuss the issue in the linked video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa0LvyotXrw


The Elder Scrolls Online will be generic awful garbage because the point of Elder Scrolls games is to slowly become ridiculously powerful so you can do whatever you want in a big sandbox but in MMOs everyone is a peon.
 
2013-09-12 06:46:04 PM

MightyPez: The thing is this: different weapons are just that: different. Not better or worse, just more suited to how you want to play.


Except rockets.  Fark rockets.
 
2013-09-12 06:49:10 PM

Cagey B: FlashHarry: RedPhoenix122: I thought it was because the content well dried up and the people now working on it can't think of any original ideas.

that's why i left. pandas? really?

Kung-fu pandas at that.


Insane Clown Posse pandas.
 
2013-09-12 06:49:30 PM
Free2Play is not the one true anything. It's a type of game. That's it.

If ANYthing is the 'one true WoW killer', it's WoW.
 
2013-09-12 06:53:20 PM

xaks: If ANYthing is the 'one true WoW killer', it's WoW.


Not really a killer.  I'd prefer if Blizzard actually killed WoW, instead of this life support crap.
 
2013-09-12 06:55:46 PM
The problem I had with WoW was the grinding. They could go F2P and I wouldn't care. I need games I can put down and pick up at any time and not have to worry about raids or in-game purchases. I play TF2 but even with that rarely make any purchases.
 
2013-09-12 06:55:49 PM

derpy: Cagey B: FlashHarry: RedPhoenix122: I thought it was because the content well dried up and the people now working on it can't think of any original ideas.

that's why i left. pandas? really?

Kung-fu pandas at that.

Insane Clown Posse pandas.


How do they work?
 
2013-09-12 07:01:00 PM
I quit WoW cause I stopped playing anything but Europa Universalis games, a year or so ago.

If i had the timeand money id likely dive right in again.
 
2013-09-12 07:21:49 PM
An MMO going F2P has always been the sign that it's done.
 
2013-09-12 07:25:31 PM

RedPhoenix122: xaks: If ANYthing is the 'one true WoW killer', it's WoW.

Not really a killer.  I'd prefer if Blizzard actually killed WoW, instead of this life support crap.


I hope I pull in $90 million if I'm ever on life support.

/if you're waiting for WoW to disappear you're going to be waiting a long time...people still play EQ. The first one.
 
2013-09-12 07:35:47 PM
The one I indulged in for a while was World of Tanks, fun game but you can quickly see the grind climb by about Tier 5, didn't go much further past that.  Also waiting for better engine optimization to work with SLI & surround screen.
 
2013-09-12 07:39:02 PM
Tera Online is the first F2P game I have ever played. It's really pretty fun, there's plenty of different stuff to do and you can generally get most of the real money gear with in-game gold if you work at it hard enough. I like this F2P trend in MMORPGs.
 
2013-09-12 07:41:48 PM
FFXIV ARR is pretty slick.  Launch was an abomination, but it's great now.
 
2013-09-12 07:46:34 PM
can'tplay MMORPGs like WOW -- I know my personality is addictive enough when it comes to gaming, I'd be that guy you read about that lost his job, gf, etc... after playing 500 hours a month.

But I have to say, I expect that WOW beats the pants off P2W.  And way too many F2P are like that, from my experience.
 
2013-09-12 07:55:53 PM

FlashHarry: RedPhoenix122: I thought it was because the content well dried up and the people now working on it can't think of any original ideas.

that's why i left. pandas? really?


Damned pandas, always sexually harassing me!
 
2013-09-12 07:59:12 PM

RedPhoenix122: I thought it was because the content well dried up and the people now working on it can't think of any original ideas.


Not really. Cataclysm was it's own WOW killer because it took the difficulty curve to achieve end-game material to EVE-like levels. Quite literally, some encounters depended on you moving just a single step to avoid being one-hit killed every few seconds.

Mists of Pandaria has been good so far, but they've stretched a lot of the content out over the last two patches.

elchupacabra: But I have to say, I expect that WOW beats the pants off P2W.  And way too many F2P are like that, from my experience.


Pretty much this. This is the main game community's argument against things other than cosmetic/transmutation items in the blizzard store.

Even the Secret World, which I expected to be a lot better than it was, went P2W with the free skill points/skill up potions they sell.
 
2013-09-12 08:06:50 PM
I never understood the appeal of spending $60 for a game, then having to spend another $10 per month just to play it.

I play games sporadically as it is... paying subscription fees isn't optimal for me anyway, but if I pay a base amount for the game, just let me play it for the next 6 months without additional expense, at least.

At least F2P games you can pick up, play and if you want to invest in them, you can.

...or with some games, like Guild Wars, you pay the base game price and just go online.
 
2013-09-12 08:06:52 PM
I would gladly pay $15 to pay a game on the caliber of WoW.

As long as it has nothing to do with WoW. That poor tired horse died with the Lich King.
 
2013-09-12 08:13:35 PM
If WoW went F2P I'd possibly get back into it. My absolute biggest gripes about it was the fact that my guild had a horrid time trying to raid Arthas in WotLK due to people getting burned out and deciding to NOT inform us they weren't coming to the raid (which resulted in those attending waiting for no-shows), and the fact that after Cataclysm I just felt really odd about paying $15 a month to wait in a freakishly long queue as my Furry Fury Worgen Warrior and do 25 dailies repeatedly.

Don't get me wrong, I could have switched to my alt spec and tanked, but those of you who've done a random heroic queue know that like 97% of all DPS class players are/were freaking idiots who think topping the threat meters was the way to win.
 
2013-09-12 08:17:26 PM
In other news, Mechwarrior Online officially launches next week. They don't have Community Warfare ready, but if you just want to drop in and blow stuff up it's hard to beat
 
2013-09-12 08:26:35 PM
I used to have a real problem with the Idea of F2P games.  If you think of them as subscription games that you can quit without losing all your access it is easier to accept.  I found that if you spend 10-15 dollars a month on the more permanent stuff it gives a very similar experience to subscriptions.

/Except for Neverwinter, christ was that game expensive.
//LOTRO gave a good time.
 
2013-09-12 08:26:47 PM

stratagos: In other news, Mechwarrior Online officially launches next week. They don't have Community Warfare ready, but if you just want to drop in and blow stuff up it's hard to beat


I'm a founder in MwO. One of the only reasons I've considered going back to Windows.
 
2013-09-12 08:31:08 PM

Prophet of Loss: I would gladly pay $15 to pay a game on the caliber of WoW.

As long as it has nothing to do with WoW. That poor tired horse died with the Lich King.


Yeah, this.  I'm hoping Wildstar is the new WoW.  The raids are back to 40 man (yay), the graphics are cartoony and not grimdark(doubleyay) and they're going to have a hybrid business model I can live with reminiscent of EVE Online (yaytacular).  They also seem to have the sense of humor and the dialogue with potential subscribers that WoW has/had, which hasn't been replicated too well by SWTOR.

Since I've stopped playing WoW, I've actually started gaining experience IRL.  I sorta don't want to go back to computer games, because then I will be outleveled by these damned goldfarmers.
 
2013-09-12 08:37:54 PM

FlashHarry: RedPhoenix122: I thought it was because the content well dried up and the people now working on it can't think of any original ideas.

that's why i left. pandas? really?


It was a hero character in an expansion pack created after an April Fool's Joke a decade ago, therefore it's canon, makes perfect sense for a full-blown game and you're obviously a big poopyhead for disagreeing.

/ that should pretty much sum up the fanboy "thoughts" on the matter...
 
2013-09-12 08:45:33 PM

LesserEvil: I never understood the appeal of spending $60 for a game, then having to spend another $10 per month just to play it.

I play games sporadically as it is... paying subscription fees isn't optimal for me anyway, but if I pay a base amount for the game, just let me play it for the next 6 months without additional expense, at least.

At least F2P games you can pick up, play and if you want to invest in them, you can.

...or with some games, like Guild Wars, you pay the base game price and just go online.


No different than paying $400+ for a console, then having to pay Microsoft or Sony $50 a year to play the damn thing.
 
2013-09-12 08:48:17 PM

skozlaw: It was a hero character in an expansion pack created after an April Fool's Joke a decade ago, therefore it's canon, makes perfect sense for a full-blown game and you're obviously a big poopyhead for disagreeing.

/ that should pretty much sum up the fanboy "thoughts" on the matter...


What the hell are you even talking about? While the Pandaren were originally created as an in-joke at Blizzard, they became an integral part of the game lore in Warcraft 3:The Frozen Throne.  The Playable Pandaren were slated to be in the game back in Burning Crusade, and the only reason they were not is the Chinese government, at the time, absolutely refused to allow Warcraft to be sold in China with Pandas being killed in it.
 
2013-09-12 09:00:33 PM

Southern100: LesserEvil: I never understood the appeal of spending $60 for a game, then having to spend another $10 per month just to play it.

I play games sporadically as it is... paying subscription fees isn't optimal for me anyway, but if I pay a base amount for the game, just let me play it for the next 6 months without additional expense, at least.

At least F2P games you can pick up, play and if you want to invest in them, you can.

...or with some games, like Guild Wars, you pay the base game price and just go online.

No different than paying $400+ for a console, then having to pay Microsoft or Sony $50 a year to play the damn thing.


Which I don't do. I multiplayer as part of the glorious master race, and by Christmas, I'll have a nice gaming PC/media center hooked up to the living room TV (58" Plasma) leveraging our family's 3 Steam accounts, with hundreds of games.

Even better... Valve just announced that Steam will allow friends and family to "share" their libraries - meaning your friend can "use" your library when you aren't (you might be using somebody else, too). This will make Steamboxes and living room gaming PCs and even better way to go. Microsoft and Sony have both managed to convince me they don't need my gaming business.
 
2013-09-12 09:00:45 PM

Beerguy: On a related note, The Elder Scrolls Online will be a subscription model like WoW, which has a lot of people upset and/or worried.

I discuss the issue in the linked video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa0LvyotXrw


WoW had a successful business model, but now the product is entering the end of its lifecycle. ESO can succeed with a similar business model, because it is a flagship game building off a successful franchise. It's the outdated games that fly-by-night games that need to convince people to play that need free-to-play.

/didn't watch the linked video, so I have no idea if you agree or disagree
 
2013-09-12 09:04:29 PM
Sluggy Freelance
Years of Yarn craft

http://www.sluggy.com/comics/archives/daily/080728
 
2013-09-12 09:05:24 PM
F2P is going to die, but it will never go away because there will always be: a) idiots stupid enough to make another F2P game and b) idiots stupid enough to play another F2P game.

But mainstream hardcore gamers are increasingly looking at F2P games and realizing that "you can get so far, but then you have to pay me" is not a formula for fun, even if "getting so far" was an OK experience.  Plus, with so many F2P games coming out, but the number of people playing games staying (relatively) fixed, the amount any one game can capture will continue to decrease.  Eventually, most will fold, and a maybe few hits will remain.  But by then the hardcore gamers will have moved on to something else, and it will probably have a different revenue model just so it can stand out from the crowd.

Personally, I think EQ2 is doing it right.  They use F2P as a lure to get people interested in the game, and then offer a subscription model with benefits.  Effectively, it's just an extended trial period.  Which is what F2P should be instead of a perpetual nickle-and-dime ripoff.
 
2013-09-12 09:15:27 PM

BumpInTheNight: The one I indulged in for a while was World of Tanks, fun game but you can quickly see the grind climb by about Tier 5, didn't go much further past that.  Also waiting for better engine optimization to work with SLI & surround screen.


World of Warplanes is in open beta now, and it rocks. World of Warships looks insanely good, no date yet though. Ghost Recon:Online is a helluva F2P as well.

F2P does not mean Free to Win.
 
2013-09-12 09:22:43 PM

js34603: RedPhoenix122: xaks: If ANYthing is the 'one true WoW killer', it's WoW.

Not really a killer.  I'd prefer if Blizzard actually killed WoW, instead of this life support crap.

I hope I pull in $90 million if I'm ever on life support.

/if you're waiting for WoW to disappear you're going to be waiting a long time...people still play EQ. The first one.


EQ is getting ready to roll out another expansion pack.

/Started playing it again a year ago.
//Stopped playing it 2 months ago.
///Different game. All the kids left for other things, it was actually fun.
 
2013-09-12 09:23:42 PM

tillerman35: F2P is going to die, but it will never go away because there will always be: a) idiots stupid enough to make another F2P game and b) idiots stupid enough to play another F2P game.

But mainstream hardcore gamers are increasingly looking at F2P games and realizing that "you can get so far, but then you have to pay me" is not a formula for fun, even if "getting so far" was an OK experience.  Plus, with so many F2P games coming out, but the number of people playing games staying (relatively) fixed, the amount any one game can capture will continue to decrease.  Eventually, most will fold, and a maybe few hits will remain.  But by then the hardcore gamers will have moved on to something else, and it will probably have a different revenue model just so it can stand out from the crowd.

Personally, I think EQ2 is doing it right.  They use F2P as a lure to get people interested in the game, and then offer a subscription model with benefits.  Effectively, it's just an extended trial period.  Which is what F2P should be instead of a perpetual nickle-and-dime ripoff.


You act like F2P is monolithic, that every game uses the same model. Not true and the model continues to evolve. Truth is that F2P opens up the market to quality products that can stand on their own merits - as opposed to the latest McNugget squeezed out by EA and pushed on the public through a bought and paid for game media. I haven't bought a game in a long time, but put a hundred or so into GR:O, and it's still in beta. When WG.net is ready to take my money for WOWP, I will be ready.

I'd rather reward a company for a quality product rather than be ripped off for the 11th variation on a theme from EA et al.
 
2013-09-12 09:33:53 PM

ulairix: ManateeGag: RedPhoenix122: I thought it was because the content well dried up and the people now working on it can't think of any original ideas.

i think you are more correct than F2P being WoW killers.  As much as they want to wrap it in a new package, it's really the same old crap "Go here, kill X of those things, come back to me" - "go over there, click Y of those glowing objects, come back to me"  and everything they add is just a grind.

Some F2P rely too heavily on the real money items being necessary to play.  You want more bag slots, fark you, pay me.  you want a faster mount, fark you, pay me.  you want to interact with other human beings, fark you, pay me.

One of the things I liked about LOTRO is that it's entirely possible to unlock all the content without spending a single dime.  It takes a while to do those deeds over and over again across characters, but patience and dedication can allow the player to unlock all features and even expansions for free.


That's the lie that made me leave LOTRO.  I could farm the currency until Doomsday and not have enough to buy a decent bag, much less an actual zone.  LOTRO is the EPITOME of how not to do F2P.

I loved the game itself, but I'd have to have friends who play it regularly enough to warrant paying the subscription, because the store as an alternative is a sick joke.  Lucky you!  Here's a quest that gives you 5 points for our store!  Maybe tomorrow you can do that again!  Cost of the next zone:  20,000 points.  Fark.  You.  I don't think so.  Oh, but you can TOTALLY earn everything.  Yeah, right.
 
2013-09-12 09:38:21 PM
I'm glad this landed in the business tab.
 
2013-09-12 09:41:58 PM
People pay to play games online. Like, pay money?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
 
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