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(Pittsburgh Post-Gazette)   Lawyer for family suing zoo is "outraged" that the zoo would "attack" the poor grieving family by pointing out their son probably wouldn't have died if Mom hadn't lifted him over the safety railing and them dropped him into a wild dog exhbit   (post-gazette.com) divider line 233
    More: Obvious, Maddox Derkosh  
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15743 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Sep 2013 at 3:26 PM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-12 10:54:47 PM

neversubmit: Well I use Mac/Linux...: neversubmit: Bull Dogshiat! She threw her kid in for a fat check.

[assets.nydailynews.com image 635x403]

A small net is seen stretched out under the observation deck's viewing area. It was meant to catch items like cellphones and sunglasses, but Maddox bounced off it and into the pit according to the family.

I didn't see anything in the story about witnesses

We need to Mythbusters that shiat and drop a 2 year old on it and see if it bounces off.

As far as I tell only the family said he even hit it. Still it a weight of the same amount as the kid doesn't bounce off the net it would put a hole in their story.

.
.
The story in question claims he bounced off of it. My guess/assumption is that, depending on how he fell, perhaps only half of him hit the net, so he somersaulted off of it into the enclosure.
 
2013-09-12 10:57:06 PM

Pocket Ninja: I was almost frantic with concern when I saw this thread go more than 10 minutes without a dingo comment. I was beginning to question everything I know about Fark, whether I had somehow shifted into some alternate reality where nothing made sense anymore, whether everything I had once believed in was dead, gone, destroyed. Thankyou, TheDumbBlonde, for restoring my faith.


This is why you're on my favorites list.
 
2013-09-12 11:02:12 PM

Headso: the article says the lawyers for the defense say the woman lifted the kid over the rail, the woman says the kid wiggled out of her grasp when she went to pick him up and he fell over the railing. farkers have deemed this woman a liar and the lawyers as telling the truth, really if we can't trust lawyers who can we trust...


1) The two are not mutually exclusive
2) It's still not the zoo's fault
 
2013-09-12 11:06:48 PM

Lollipop165: monoski: R.A.Danny: Why haven't charges been pressed against the mother?

This

If she didn't sue the zoo, I would say let her go without charges. Its a tragedy enough, and obviously a stupid (really, really really stupid) mistake. Taking personal responsibility for killing your own child is punishment enough.

But now that's she's trying to shift blame onto the zoo... I saw make her pay. She's obviously learned nothing.


You know, I suspect that you could press charges, set a very low bail so she's out in a day or two, and then sentence her to time served. For someone so adamantly in denial of their responsibility here, a legal judgment that this was your fault is probably a worse punishment than any sentence you could possibly impose anyway.
 
2013-09-12 11:31:58 PM

Headso: the article says the lawyers for the defense say the woman lifted the kid over the rail, the woman says the kid wiggled out of her grasp when she went to pick him up and he fell over the railing. farkers have deemed this woman a liar and the lawyers as telling the truth, really if we can't trust lawyers who can we trust...


have you looked at the rail? She would have to be holding him awfully high and awfully close to the rail. I have a 2 year old and I pick her up to look at stuff at the zoo. But I don't hold her whole body over the height if the railing and farking lean over.

Because that would be retarded.

If she gets held up that means her head pokes over the rail while the rest of her body is below it. It means we are usually back a foot or two. Often she just has to look through the rail. I get that this kid had a vision problem, but maybe its time to think about appropriate activities for your disabled toddler rather than throw them to a pack of wild dogs.

Frankly the MOST disturbing thing is she didn't jump in there. I would not have effing thought twice about it. I probably would have been jumping in before she even hit the ground.
 
2013-09-12 11:50:48 PM
WTF kind of name is Derkosh?
 
2013-09-13 12:02:46 AM

ace in your face: Frankly the MOST disturbing thing is she didn't jump in there. I would not have effing thought twice about it. I probably would have been jumping in before she even hit the ground.


This right here.
 
2013-09-13 12:06:50 AM

R.A.Danny: How is this father not punching that asshole of a mother's face inside out?


I would've guessed either Pittsburgh or Cleveland, based on this picture alone.

So sad.
 
2013-09-13 12:10:35 AM

Well I use Mac/Linux...: Ostman:I was dropping a letter into an office in a builders yard for my boss in May, and the gate was locked as it was early. So I hopped the gate and walked around the piles of timber to the office. Where his guard Alsatian was sleeping. The dog did it's very best to let me know it didn't want a fight (although I don't know why, it was 3 metres tall at the shoulder and had teeth like knives...I think). Lots of snarling, barking, ears pinned back, etc.

For my part, I did my best to let it know I was hop ...

This is very true.  My sister called me one day and said that she was out with this guy from work who lived a few minutes from my house, and he remembered that he had left his dog outside in the back yard.  She asked me to run by his house, let myself in the backyard, and open the back door for the dog.  I agreed.  She gives me directions and I head over to the house.  I open the side gate on the fence, walk in, and see his dog chained up in the back.  It's a full grown German Shepard.  It stands up and starts barking at me, and I immediately pull one of these:

[24.media.tumblr.com image 320x240]


My experience 15 yrs ago was the complete opposite. For 2 yrs while in college, I worked for a delivery company. We had the contract for KFC, Subway, ESM, Swiss Chalet and most of the smaller pizza joints.

It's not that I'm afraid of dogs/animals and not that I am not afraid of animals, it's just that I really have no idea if they're about to bite me, so I avoid any opportunity to give them the chance.

However, having said that, once you walk into their territory carrying a warm smelly food bag (does not matter if it's KFC or a pizza) you are their bestest FRIEND evar and they will love you and want to raise a family with you. I routinely went up to sketchy looking dwellings that had 'beware of doug' signs posted and the dogs would bark rabidly, but lost all interest in me once they had a sniff of the bag.
 
2013-09-13 12:35:02 AM
Darwin by Proxy
 
2013-09-13 12:35:41 AM

otaku69: TheDumbBlonde: "A dingo ate my baby!".

Don't you mean, the painted dog's ate my baby.


Reminds me of the song:

"Painted ladies and a bottle from the whino."
 
2013-09-13 01:12:21 AM
This mother is probably going through a lot of grief, and I'll bet that she didn't reach out to find a lawyer. I'll bet that every lawyer in her state rushed to "help" her in her time of need. It's a tragic story, but at this point i'm going to have to give her a pass and instead blame the bloodsucking lawyers.

CSB: A city bus crunched the front end of our minivan while my wife was driving. She was fine. 6 cops showed up and everybody agrees that the bus driver was completely 100% at fault (my wife was stopped at a red light). Within two days we got these amazing lawyer packets in the mail from all over our state. Not just the 'we'll represent you' crap a person in an accident normally gets, but we got DVDs and expensive-ass paper and hand written notes. Because "city bus" equals money.

Eventually we got sued by two different people on the bus (because they got nice packets in the mail too). Seriously. Everything worked out just fine in the end though, and the city covered the cost of our repairs + rental car for the week. We had zero interest in suing (If she had been hurt or ended up with PTSD, then it would be a different story), but I could see how somebody, in their darkest moment of grief at not only losing their child, but also probably watching that horrific event happen.. I could see how a lawyer could take advantage of that. I could see the mother wanting to share in that responsibility.

Kill all the lawyers.
 
2013-09-13 01:48:03 AM

heili skrimsli: gaslight: Dumb question: why wasn't this person arrested for endangerment causing death?

Because the typical response in a situation like this is to say that the poor, mournful mother has suffered enough by the punishment of having to grieve over her dead child.


Just like those poor Menendez boys, shown leniency by the court because they were orphans in the cold hard world after they murdered their parents.

/except they weren't
//but that was the 80s, it was a different time
///back when "personal responsibility" wasn't considered a phrase used only by racists
 
2013-09-13 03:25:05 AM

FnkyTwn: Eventually we got sued by two different people on the bus (because they got nice packets in the mail too).


The claims against you must have been choice.
 
2013-09-13 03:31:56 AM
What painted dogs might look like:

img.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-13 06:35:14 AM

Tatterdemalian: Just like those poor Menendez boys, shown leniency by the court because they were orphans in the cold hard world after they murdered their parents.


You don't think that happens? Here's an example:

grimlock1972: True true, but in anyway its a sticky situation. I wholeheartedly she should be charged with something, but no matter what punishment she might be given it would pale in comparison to having to live with the knowledge her stupidity cost the life of her child.


I think she should be jailed for the negligent manslaughter of her kid. And no, the fact that he's dead is not more punishment than her being in prison.
 
2013-09-13 06:58:59 AM

FnkyTwn: This mother is probably going through a lot of grief, and I'll bet that she didn't reach out to find a lawyer. I'll bet that every lawyer in her state rushed to "help" her in her time of need. It's a tragic story, but at this point i'm going to have to give her a pass and instead blame the bloodsucking lawyers.

CSB: A city bus crunched the front end of our minivan while my wife was driving. She was fine. 6 cops showed up and everybody agrees that the bus driver was completely 100% at fault (my wife was stopped at a red light). Within two days we got these amazing lawyer packets in the mail from all over our state. Not just the 'we'll represent you' crap a person in an accident normally gets, but we got DVDs and expensive-ass paper and hand written notes. Because "city bus" equals money.

Eventually we got sued by two different people on the bus (because they got nice packets in the mail too). Seriously. Everything worked out just fine in the end though, and the city covered the cost of our repairs + rental car for the week. We had zero interest in suing (If she had been hurt or ended up with PTSD, then it would be a different story), but I could see how somebody, in their darkest moment of grief at not only losing their child, but also probably watching that horrific event happen.. I could see how a lawyer could take advantage of that. I could see the mother wanting to share in that responsibility.

Kill all the lawyers.


Seriously?  This lunatic dropped her baby into a den of wild animals and you're blaming...the lawyers?  She SHOULD be experiencing a lot of grief.  She killed another human being through gross and willful negligence. She should also be behind bars.

A mother causing the death of her own child should be held accountable to a greater degree not lesser.  I can't possible imagine a greater breach of trust and responsibility.
 
2013-09-13 08:09:01 AM
Little Maddox was the best kid in the universe.
 
2013-09-13 08:15:30 AM

heili skrimsli: Tatterdemalian: Just like those poor Menendez boys, shown leniency by the court because they were orphans in the cold hard world after they murdered their parents.

You don't think that happens? Here's an example:

grimlock1972: True true, but in anyway its a sticky situation. I wholeheartedly she should be charged with something, but no matter what punishment she might be given it would pale in comparison to having to live with the knowledge her stupidity cost the life of her child.

I think she should be jailed for the negligent manslaughter of her kid. And no, the fact that he's dead is not more punishment than her being in prison.


Not a parent, are you ?
 
2013-09-13 08:59:44 AM

capt.hollister: heili skrimsli: Tatterdemalian: Just like those poor Menendez boys, shown leniency by the court because they were orphans in the cold hard world after they murdered their parents.

You don't think that happens? Here's an example:

grimlock1972: True true, but in anyway its a sticky situation. I wholeheartedly she should be charged with something, but no matter what punishment she might be given it would pale in comparison to having to live with the knowledge her stupidity cost the life of her child.

I think she should be jailed for the negligent manslaughter of her kid. And no, the fact that he's dead is not more punishment than her being in prison.

Not a parent, are you ?


Your argument would absolve any parent of criminal guilt if that parent kills his or her own child. By your logic, Susan Smith shouldn't be in prison and Andrea Yates should be free because it's so much worse punishment that their children are dead. Why bother putting Michelle Tharp in prison, because obviously she's been punished enough by the fact that her daughter starved to death.

If your kid dies of malnutrition because of your veganism we should just let it go, because nothing we can do is more punishment than the fact that your kid is dead? Should the parents who prayed instead of providing medical care to their diabetic child be let off with our sympathies because losing their kid is worse punishment than prison?

When your negligence causes the death of someone else, we don't, as a society, say 'Well he'll just have to live with the guilt, and that's the worst punishment of all.' Feeling guilty doesn't erase criminal culpability, and I'm damn sure that not being in prison is a lot more enjoyable than being in prison.
 
2013-09-13 09:16:50 AM

heili skrimsli: capt.hollister: heili skrimsli: Tatterdemalian: Just like those poor Menendez boys, shown leniency by the court because they were orphans in the cold hard world after they murdered their parents.

You don't think that happens? Here's an example:

grimlock1972: True true, but in anyway its a sticky situation. I wholeheartedly she should be charged with something, but no matter what punishment she might be given it would pale in comparison to having to live with the knowledge her stupidity cost the life of her child.

I think she should be jailed for the negligent manslaughter of her kid. And no, the fact that he's dead is not more punishment than her being in prison.

Not a parent, are you ?

Your argument would absolve any parent of criminal guilt if that parent kills his or her own child. By your logic, Susan Smith shouldn't be in prison and Andrea Yates should be free because it's so much worse punishment that their children are dead. Why bother putting Michelle Tharp in prison, because obviously she's been punished enough by the fact that her daughter starved to death.

If your kid dies of malnutrition because of your veganism we should just let it go, because nothing we can do is more punishment than the fact that your kid is dead? Should the parents who prayed instead of providing medical care to their diabetic child be let off with our sympathies because losing their kid is worse punishment than prison?

When your negligence causes the death of someone else, we don't, as a society, say 'Well he'll just have to live with the guilt, and that's the worst punishment of all.' Feeling guilty doesn't erase criminal culpability, and I'm damn sure that not being in prison is a lot more enjoyable than being in prison.


No, there is a difference. There is no reason to think that she didn't love her son and intended to kill him. His death was the result of a stupid, inconsiderate gesture. No malice was involved. Stupidity, negligence, yes, but not malice. You can certainly accuse her of reckless endangerment causing death and jail her for it, but do not make the mistake of thinking that this would be worst than having lost her small child.
 
2013-09-13 09:36:12 AM

gambitsgirl: onzmadi: It is people like this waste of oxygen that  we lose things like zoos. Its tragic the boy? died but using this as an opportunity for a payday is just beyond awful. I hope the mother gets Lou Gehrig's disease.

Not cool. That insults my husband who died of it



False. That comment has absolutely nothing to do with your husband. Not everything is about you.

Sorry for your loss, but get some perspective.
 
2013-09-13 10:37:29 AM

capt.hollister: No, there is a difference. There is no reason to think that she didn't love her son and intended to kill him. His death was the result of a stupid, inconsiderate gesture. No malice was involved. Stupidity, negligence, yes, but not malice. You can certainly accuse her of reckless endangerment causing death and jail her for it, but do not make the mistake of thinking that this would be worst than having lost her small child.


So then she's pretty much just like the people who prayed instead of getting medical care for their diabetic child?

Well, except that those people actually thought the prayer was helping, and there's no rational basis whatsoever for thinking that holding your kid over a pen of wild animals is a beneficial move.
 
2013-09-13 11:27:39 AM

heili skrimsli: So then she's pretty much just like the people who prayed instead of getting medical care for their diabetic child?

Well, except that those people actually thought the prayer was helping, and there's no rational basis whatsoever for thinking that holding your kid over a pen of wild animals is a beneficial move.



You should look at the images of where this kid fell from. The plexiglass kids are allowed to look through is all scuffed and hard to see anything through, and clearly she didn't dangle her kid over the edge.. she had picked him up and according to her he bucked wildly.. like kids sometimes do. There were lots of people around, and nobody saw her 'dangle' him.. so i'm inclined to believe her version.

Praying for a miracle clearly isn't the same as accidentally dropping your kid. It was dumb on her part, and she clearly got him too close to the rail, but these things do happen. Kids can be crazy sometimes. I've never dropped one, but I've had mine buck while carrying them up and down the stairs and that's some pretty crazy sheet. Even when you're expecting it it's hard to brace for it.

Unless you're just trolling. You're probably just trolling.
 
2013-09-13 11:51:56 AM

wineguy: Darwinism by proxy.

Stupid woman reproduces and then does something stupid resulting in the death of her little snowflake. Stupid genes removed from gene pool, all's well. It's a shame though that the woman didn't jump in after the kid and get mauled to death herself. That would have been hilarious.

/yes, a window seat will be fine thanks.


you know, you (unintentionally?) bring up a good point. If I were a parent I'd jump the fark in there, do what I can, get mauled first, hopefully some guy with the tranquilizer shotgun comes out before they move on to jr. why didn't she jump in after him?
 
2013-09-13 11:54:31 AM
Clearly, if the zoo fed the dogs enough babbies, these dogs would not have show any interest in this one.
 
2013-09-13 12:22:07 PM

FnkyTwn: You should look at the images of where this kid fell from.


I've actually been where this kid fell from. Numerous times.

She stood her kid on the railing over the exhibit. If you want to hold a 2 year-old up so they can see over it, it is possible to stand about 2 feet from the railing, and hold them against your chest, so that they can see but can't fall in. In fact, sensible people do that all the time.

FnkyTwn: There were lots of people around, and nobody saw her 'dangle' him.. so i'm inclined to believe her version.


Her version of events differs from the version of events that the police investigation revealed when the actual incident occurred. Specifically she is now denying that she stood the boy on the railing, although after the police investigated and interviewed witnesses:

"Almost immediately after that he lost his balance, fell down off the railing into the actual pit and he was immediately attacked by 11 dogs,"  Lt. Kraus said.

Nobody in Nov. 2012 was denying that she put him on the railing. Her sister even said she understands why the mother put him on the railing, and it was because he wore glasses. He was in a standing position and lost his balance. The railing is slanted at 45 degrees toward the viewing platform:

d4493f2df0d1b95cfc62-773cd17a86049dd672fafb96394debed.r5.cf2.rackcdn.com

She stood him on that railing and he fell in. That is entirely her fault.
 
2013-09-13 12:26:09 PM

Pangea: gambitsgirl: onzmadi: It is people like this waste of oxygen that  we lose things like zoos. Its tragic the boy? died but using this as an opportunity for a payday is just beyond awful. I hope the mother gets Lou Gehrig's disease.

Not cool. That insults my husband who died of it


False. That comment has absolutely nothing to do with your husband. Not everything is about you.

Sorry for your loss, but get some perspective.


False. It was snark. It was fark. Not comparing ALS to this mom... oh fark it. You're right. Pardon me. I'll run get you a drink.
 
2013-09-13 01:15:08 PM
you guys have me laughing my arse off
but yea, she's a pretty awful farking human

keep up on this one subbie
I wanna see how badly she fails
again
 
2013-09-13 02:18:57 PM

heili skrimsli: capt.hollister: No, there is a difference. There is no reason to think that she didn't love her son and intended to kill him. His death was the result of a stupid, inconsiderate gesture. No malice was involved. Stupidity, negligence, yes, but not malice. You can certainly accuse her of reckless endangerment causing death and jail her for it, but do not make the mistake of thinking that this would be worst than having lost her small child.

So then she's pretty much just like the people who prayed instead of getting medical care for their diabetic child?

Well, except that those people actually thought the prayer was helping, and there's no rational basis whatsoever for thinking that holding your kid over a pen of wild animals is a beneficial move.


You're missing my point. Perhaps I wasn't clear. My disagreement with you is when you state that prison is worst than the loss of her child. I don't think it is.

I think the same is true of parents who deny their children proper care because of some misguided belief in woo.  In my mind what sets the two apart is that one death is the result of one very short lapse in judgment, while the other is the result of a long drawn-out process with many chances not taken and advice not heeded to do the right thing.   What is the same in both cases is that the pain of the loss is greater than any temporary loss of freedom that results from it.

You can, and often should, jail stupid people whether to punish them or to set an example or even to educate them, I'm not in any way denying society's right to do that, but I also believe that when non-malicious people cause the death of their children, their own conscience imprisons them in a burden of pain and guilt that continues long after they have finished serving time in a physical jail.
 
2013-09-13 02:53:49 PM

Begoggle: Maddox died Nov. 4

[blog.cassiopeia.ca image 400x314]

A firetruck came to rescue him but it looked like this


Ding ding ding!! Here comes the shiatmobile!!
 
2013-09-13 07:27:57 PM

scottydoesntknow: Robert Mongeluzzi, who represents the Derkosh family, called the zoo's conduct "unconscionable."

"I think blaming the mother is unwarranted and wrong especially given that they were warned by their own employees of that very conduct," he said. "I think their attack on the Derkosh family is awful."

Telling the truth is NOT an attack. God forbid she actually owns up to her actions.


Done in 1. My wife is enraged about this- not because the zoo called her out, but because it's entirely this woman's fault and she can't admit it.

I hope this zoo bans the family for life.
 
2013-09-13 07:34:03 PM

Your Average Witty Fark User: scottydoesntknow: Robert Mongeluzzi, who represents the Derkosh family, called the zoo's conduct "unconscionable."

"I think blaming the mother is unwarranted and wrong especially given that they were warned by their own employees of that very conduct," he said. "I think their attack on the Derkosh family is awful."

Telling the truth is NOT an attack. God forbid she actually owns up to her actions.

Done in 1. My wife is enraged about this- not because the zoo called her out, but because it's entirely this woman's fault and she can't admit it.

I hope this zoo bans the family for life.


Well, we know that at least one member will not be coming back!
 
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