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(Gawker)   Some billionaires, such as Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, have pledged to give away the vast majority of their fortunes to charity. Then there are the Waltons, who inherited their billions and are going to fight to keep every last dime   (gawker.com) divider line 106
    More: Interesting, Bill Gates, Sam Walton, Walton family, John D. Rockefeller, Gilded Age  
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18237 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Sep 2013 at 3:29 PM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-09-12 02:38:44 PM
14 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?


You and I taking advantage of tax laws, with the few thousand we collectively pay in taxes every year is nothing compared to a single loophole exploited by the 8+-figure crowd.

There's also the problem that they, with their financial largesse, can affect what the actual tax laws are (while we can't to the same degree), making the idea that we're anything close to a level playing field ludicrous on its face.

There's "gaming the system", and there's "creating a system favorable to your games". We may do the former for the cost of maybe a few million total, nationwide, but the Waltons (and the millionaires in Congress) do the latter to the tune of tens (if not hundreds) of billions.
2013-09-12 12:29:21 PM
12 votes:
well, that's their right, of course. just as it's my right not to shop at their shiatty stores.
2013-09-12 01:11:31 PM
10 votes:
That's pretty typical, in my experience.

Self-made millionaires and billionaires knew what it was like to be poor, middle-class, or even just slightly less rich.  It wasn't the end of the world.  They were happy.  So you have to get a Ferrari instead of a Bugatti.  BFD.

Rich kids who won the uterus lottery grow up so sheltered, they seem to think the real world is a coont hair away from Thunderdome.
2013-09-12 03:39:55 PM
9 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?


That they've spent millions to craft the tax law to their liking perhaps?  That they and a small group of ^) other families collectively gave themselves a $76 BILLION tax break when they pretty much out of whole cloth  created and funded the whole "repeal the Death Tax Movement"    or maybe its that right now  the top 10% take in 50% of the national income and own 90% of all the stock, the highest levels since they've been keeping records, and Utter bastards though they were, at least some of the last generation of Robber Barons like Getty, Rockefellar, and Carnegie has at least some understand of the concept of Noblisse Oblige.

As Robert Heinlien once wisely said: "While originally a French word, the French aristocrats at some point lost the concept of Noblesse Oblige while it remained strong among the English nobility.  This helps explain while the British nobility are still around while the French are not." (quoting form memory because I'm too lazy to google)
2013-09-12 03:36:33 PM
9 votes:
Pay your employes so little that they need government assistance to survive.

Don't pay taxes.

Win.
2013-09-12 02:15:45 PM
9 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?


Maybe because that family has more sway over what tax law is than yours or mine.
2013-09-12 03:27:11 PM
8 votes:
Conservatism is just what we call the political expression of the character flaw selfishness.
2013-09-12 03:46:07 PM
7 votes:

skozlaw: But the Waltons are only a symptom of that problem and it's completely unjustifiable to go about attacking them directly in the way the writer did. They're an EXAMPLE of what's wrong with the system, they're not, in this instance, the actual problem.


As people mentioned up thread they are lobbying to change tax law in their favor while paying their employees so little the rest of us subsidize their profits with social services to bring their employees up to a living wage. fark the waltons
2013-09-12 12:33:43 PM
7 votes:
They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?
2013-09-12 02:04:43 PM
6 votes:

Sgt Otter: That's pretty typical, in my experience.

Self-made millionaires and billionaires knew what it was like to be poor, middle-class, or even just slightly less rich.  It wasn't the end of the world.  They were happy.  So you have to get a Ferrari instead of a Bugatti.  BFD.

Rich kids who won the uterus lottery grow up so sheltered, they seem to think the real world is a coont hair away from Thunderdome.


Seems to me a pretty heavy indictment of Sam Walton - he raised a brood of assholes.
2013-09-12 04:35:10 PM
5 votes:
blogs-images.forbes.com

also gave very little if anything to charity, but it's okay because he made over-priced shiny crap that was made in Chinese sweat shops rather than cheap crap made in Chinese sweat shops.
2013-09-12 04:30:07 PM
5 votes:

Phineas: What's this?  Another thread full of liberals whining about other people having things, and mistakenly believing that the fact that others have things somehow prevents they themselves from having things?  Carry on.


It's not really a liberal thing as much as a global economics thing. There's only so much wealth in the world, and the people hoarding trillions actually are preventing others from having it.
2013-09-12 03:49:49 PM
5 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: doyner: Apparently when the page loaded on your computer the link sent you to an American Potatoe diatribe instead.

There's more truth to that than you intended.

On one hand Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are great people because they give a lot of money to charity. Oh and the Waltons do too...more than Buffet and almost as much as Gates (Wal Mart's charitable donations not included) but they get tax breaks. No mention of the possibility that Gates and Buffet might....juuuuuuuuuuust might realize some tax breaks as well.

Weapons grade potato(e).


Well that's some fine intellectual dishonesty. Gates' and Buffett's heirs will receive a relative pittance. The current Waltons ARE the heirs. Ergo, had Mr. Walton done what Mr Gates and Buffett are doing, the current Waltons would not exist in their current format. How could you miss that simple fact?
2013-09-12 12:31:33 PM
5 votes:

FlashHarry: well, that's their right, of course. just as it's my right not to shop at their shiatty stores.


Precisely.  Though I do take issue with them amassing such a fortune by keeping the people that work for them on wages too low to support them.  But yeah - I vote with my wallet.
2013-09-12 04:08:30 PM
4 votes:

steamingpile: The estate tax law needs to be changed to allow poor or middle class to keep more, its a farking cash grab from the government and idiots act like this is a rich tax.


From the IRS website: the applicable exclusion amount for 2013 is $5,250,000.

If you think the estate tax hits the poor or middle class, you're a tool of punditry.
2013-09-12 03:49:36 PM
4 votes:
The whole Wal Mart system, from it's disgustingly-greedy owners, to it's awful policies against a decent living wage, to the horrific abominations of nature who go there to shop, is proof without a doubt that there is no God.

A swirling vortex of avarice, cruelty, and inbred stupidity.
2013-09-12 02:51:09 PM
4 votes:

what_now: FlashHarry: well, that's their right, of course. just as it's my right not to shop at their shiatty stores.

Exactly. You can biatch about this on facebook...or you can just not shop at WalMart.

My brother works for Wal Mart. Everything you've heard about their shady practices are true.


They don't just low-ball their employees:  they routinely delay payments to their service contractors out
to the ragged edge of their payment windows, and that's after they 'negotiate' sweetheart deals that trade
heavily on the 'prestige' of allowing their contractors to say "Hey, we have WAL*MART as a client!" in
return for the lowest of rates.

Cheap bastards the lot of them.
2013-09-12 02:25:45 PM
4 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: doyner: Maybe because that family has more sway over what tax law is than yours or mine.

I'm still trying to figure out what the gripe is in TFA.


I think it's pretty straightforward.  They're masters at legal tax evasion.
2013-09-12 04:42:27 PM
3 votes:
Intergenerational wealth is aristocracy, plain and simple. You die, your spouse dies and your kids are 21+, it should go away. No family trusts. No estate planning. No "heirs." And no passing on wealth to children before one dies. You earn it, you enjoy the fruits of your labor. Live it up. But it ends there.

This country has never lived up to its vision and has rarely tried.
2013-09-12 04:34:07 PM
3 votes:

nosferatublue: What do you think all this money is doing, pray tell?


I'll tell you what it's not doing.... It's certainly not paying their employees a living wage so the rest of the tax payers don't have to pick up their slack.
2013-09-12 04:27:38 PM
3 votes:
Well. Since money has been ruled "political speech", it shows that 4 people have more "speech" than 120 million.
2013-09-12 04:27:02 PM
3 votes:

ManRay: Lefty butthurt abounds.

Vote with your wallet if you don't like Walmart. Live your life and stop worrying about other people that don't give a shiat about you.


As a Christian I care about people. I don't want someone to work and still not be able to afford shelter, food, healthcare. I am a "lefty" because I believe Christians should act and think and love more like Christ did and not like the Devil. You can always tell if someone is a true follower of Christ by their love for their fellow man. Rest assured the people on the right who claim to be Christians but hate the sick, the poor and those they deem unworthy will hear God say that He never knew them. So keep on with that "lefty" crap and your greed at the expense of others. You will impress your money worshiping, fake Christian friends but you will lose your soul.
2013-09-12 03:48:44 PM
3 votes:

parasol: something about rich men...and heaven....and camels and the eyes of needles....

wonder what the stats are of walmart shoppers claiming to be chrisitans


I'm sure many of them are Christian, but you know what a hell of a lot of them are as well?  Poor.

So, I don't see the problem.  It's very possible to be forced to shop for your goods at the cheapest place in town and frown inside at the obvious un-Christian like behavior of the owners.

Not all of them are stupid hypocrites that relish the joys of having to buy their cheap shiat at Walmart.  Some of them probably hate it and wish that they had the disposable income to waste on more expensive stores, but that's just not possible.

What other options are there for the destitute?  Give them a break.
2013-09-12 03:46:40 PM
3 votes:
Lefty butthurt abounds.

Vote with your wallet if you don't like Walmart. Live your life and stop worrying about other people that don't give a shiat about you.
2013-09-12 02:43:57 PM
3 votes:

doyner: Apparently when the page loaded on your computer the link sent you to an American Potatoe diatribe instead.


There's more truth to that than you intended.

On one hand Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are great people because they give a lot of money to charity. Oh and the Waltons do too...more than Buffet and almost as much as Gates (Wal Mart's charitable donations not included) but they get tax breaks. No mention of the possibility that Gates and Buffet might....juuuuuuuuuuust might realize some tax breaks as well.

Weapons grade potato(e).
2013-09-12 02:36:17 PM
3 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: doyner: I think it's pretty straightforward.

I don't think we read the same article.


Apparently when the page loaded on your computer the link sent you to an American Potatoe diatribe instead.
2013-09-12 01:09:13 PM
3 votes:
something about rich men...and heaven....and camels and the eyes of needles....

wonder what the stats are of walmart shoppers claiming to be chrisitans
2013-09-12 12:33:55 PM
3 votes:

FlashHarry: well, that's their right, of course. just as it's my right not to shop at their shiatty stores.


Exactly. You can biatch about this on facebook...or you can just not shop at WalMart.

My brother works for Wal Mart. Everything you've heard about their shady practices are true.
2013-09-13 10:20:54 AM
2 votes:
jayphat
*sigh*
1.)The god damn tax code needs completely wiped and started from scratch on a basic level. Period. The ominous "loopholes" mean nothing to some and everything to people who can't point the god damn things out.
2.) rates aren't the issue. Deductions are the issue. And there are so many its beyond stupid. Don't listen to the talking head politicians on this.
3.)Capital gains don't need taxed at the normal income rate. Capital gains need to be taxed at the income rate as the percentage they are ...

4.)This is a farking stupid point that serves no purpose other than to be a money grab for the government. You don't need more of someone elses money just because they are dead.
5.) Point to me a law that was passed that weakens unions.
6.)We aren't cutting social programs for the poor. There are more today than at any other point in history. What we need is some reform to some social programs so that the net worth to those using them can be increased. As an example, remove pop/soda/chips/candy from SNAP benefits. You have no idea how much money this minor reform will the system to be given back to those who need it.


1) You don't think the super wealthy use every loophole their highly paid wealth managers can find? lol...
2) Rates are absolutely part of the issue. Raise top rates and reduce deductions. There's no reason we can't do both.
3) As Warren Buffet has pointed out, the wealthy aren't going to stop investing because their GAINS get taxed at a higher rate. There's no need to make it anymore complicated than taxing cap gains just like regular income. Our current rate of 15% is just plain stupid and serves only to help the super rich get even richer.
4) If you're too thick to understand the purpose of an estate tax in society, and obviously you are because you state that its only purpose is as a government money grab, then you're too ignorant to engage in an intelligent discussion about the topics of wealth inequality and taxation.
5) Right to work laws. There, that was easy.
6) One quick example: A  $4 billion cut to the food stamp program was the democratic proposal earlier in the year. House Republicans wanted a freaking $20 billion cut because their policy toward the poor can be summed up as "fark off and die".

We have the worst gap between rich and poor in the US for over 100 years and compared to other countries the worst among modern nations and you're appokay with that... because freedom.
/On the other hand you want to tell poor people what food is deemed healthy enough to buy at the grocery and what isn't.
//freedom?


Fade2black
Except all that money gets funneled and extrapolated through the government...when it comes out their ass it's already embezzled or a fraction of what it was before.  The only difference is now you can say your nanny is protecting you from the evil rich.

And your Union stance is laughable.  The only vortex of more wasted money other than the government is the crime bosses that run "local 1086"...because we need 4 people holding up a shovel at $30/hr, because LIVING WAGE!


Allow me to be at least the 2nd person in this thread to say to you: Look at how stupid you are!
Seriously. Your posts are too stupid to merit a real response. Go back to freeperville.
2013-09-12 10:11:09 PM
2 votes:
If the Waltons family had any interest in anything other than themselves, they would have returned a hefty chunk of all that excess pelf into the economy in the form of wages, education and local manufacturing concerns.  They don't.  They haven't.  They wont.

Walton mart is a one trick pony.  Buy cheap sh*t by the shipload from whoever sells the lowest, fix prices for people who want to do business with them, blow it out the door with a few clueless idiots or OAPs for a staff who can't find real jobs, let mind the hangar and ring it up, and pay them dogsh*t.

And they plan on keeping every penny of it.  It is my only hope that they don't actually figure out how much of a chunk of an entire nation you can leverage with that many IOUs and they just stuff it up their asses until they choke.

Some people think their business model makes them heroes.  I think it makes them the fat kid in the corner at the birthday party, desperately shoving the whole cake in his mouth before the other kids find out what happened to it.
2013-09-12 09:34:08 PM
2 votes:

utahraptor2: Benevolent Misanthrope: FlashHarry: well, that's their right, of course. just as it's my right not to shop at their shiatty stores.

Precisely.  Though I do take issue with them amassing such a fortune by keeping the people that work for them on wages too low to support them.  But yeah - I vote with my wallet.

I get the sense that jealous people think they're entitled to all those billions they didn't farking earn.


Well, if you made fortunes like Henry Ford who brought in people, housed them, educated them, helped them get citizenship, and paid them well for working g at his plants, then I would agree.

The issue seems to be not with the wads of cash they have (at least for most people, some just hate anyone with more money than they have, greed's brother jealousy) but the fact that they live large with massive fortunes while running businesses that pay shiat wages and use cheap labor markets to make those piles.

If you come by your fortune honestly, or your family came by it honestly, and you deal with your workers and suppliers honorably, then who the fark cares? Take it and do what you want.

If you fark over your fellow man, well, that is worthy of contempt in its own right.
2013-09-12 07:46:24 PM
2 votes:

Fade2black: But these days it's more important to own a cell phone than to feed your kids.  It's more important to go out on Friday and party instead of study for an upcoming test in school.  Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything...but by god we'll blame everyone BUT me for me doing what I'm doing right NOW!


And if you ARE poor and you DON'T see the world that way and are TRYING to support yourself on scraps from people who don't care about you in the form of a sh*tty job, you DON'T have another choice.  Lemme guess, they should go back to college at 40,000.00 a year and get bootstrappy?  Sell apples?  You can justify morbid avarice in the face of crippling poverty by saying all poor people are lazy con artists, but it's more of a security blanket than a fact.
2013-09-12 07:34:30 PM
2 votes:

Fade2black: Defeats the purpose of being a piece of shiat in the first place.


And as we all know, money is god and people should be judged as successes or "pieces of sh*t" by how much of it they've managed to get their hands on, by whatever means.  Get food stamps and rent assistance or unemployment?  Piece of sh*t.  Pay millions to legislators to allow you to make more billions!  Success!

I don't think the people with a vested interest in somehow coming up with the gas bill, this month, are all necessarily slimy, lazy, ill educated Honey Boo Boo fans, sucking down Faygo and trading their EBT bennies for Marlboro Lights at "Achnad's friendly and none too concerned about item entry" bodega.

I think people who are worried sh*tless about being three missed paychecks from standing in the same line as the people who ARE pulling that crap desperately need to look doen their nose at them.

When you eat the whole pizza, a lot of people who chipped in on it really do have to eat the cardboard container it came in for dinner.  And that's not success.  That's being a pig.
2013-09-12 05:44:43 PM
2 votes:
It didn't take long for the usual deluded douchebag to show up here and defend the plutocratic assholes who rule them.

cptrios
I'm a liberal. I despise the Waltons and everyone else in the "we're rich enough to live like kings for 1000 years, but we're still willing to make lots of other people's lives worse in order to push that to 1100" camp (the Kochs being the worst, followed by loads of others including, yes, the dreaded Soros). But actually  legislatingagainst that would be pretty much impossible. What are you going to do, make it illegal to have anything over a certain amount of money?

Seriously? You can't think of some ways to ease the obscene gap between the rich and poor in the US? Then why is it that we have the biggest wealth gap among modern nations?

Here are some tips:
Close the goddamn tax loopholes that the uber wealthy are forever abusing.
Raise the top tax rate or better yet add a new, higher tax rate for incomes over, say, a million bucks.
Tax capital gains the same as other income.
Raise the estate tax rate.
Stop passing legislation that weakens unions. What's needed is the exact opposite. 
Stop cutting social programs for poor people. Strengthen them.

That's off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more ways we could use legislation to decrease the disgraceful gap between rich and poor in the United States. Sadly and pathetically, the GOP has convinced millions of poor and middle class people to fight on behalf of the super wealthy.
2013-09-12 04:55:18 PM
2 votes:

steamingpile: They completely ignore that they have donated millions to schools in their home state and built one of the finest museums/art galleries not in a major city.


For the record, when your net worth is in the tens of billions, "millions" isn't even 1%. If they followed Church doctrine, they should be donating approximately 2 billion each to meet the 10% marker.

They aren't and they are collectively making the taxpayers subsidize their employees by depressing wages to at or below poverty levels. I've taken a serious look at Walmart and seen a LOT that can be done to make the place better, but I won't work for $8.00 an hour with my skill set.

/is this logical enough for you?
2013-09-12 04:45:57 PM
2 votes:

Headso: steamingpile: it amazes me to this day how the kennedy's are so revered yet people ignore how their father was such a scumbag and was the only reason why they were rich.

You revere the Kennedys about as much as I revere the Waltons. Heh, are you asking people to be nice to the Waltons but not the Kennedys?


Why can't we hate both? Fark the Kennedys too
2013-09-12 04:41:33 PM
2 votes:

baka-san: ManRay: Vote with your wallet if you don't like Walmart.

Problem is, in some smaller towns you don't have a choice unless you drive for 20+ miles one way.


Acts of conscience aren't always convenient.
2013-09-12 04:30:53 PM
2 votes:

Mija: ManRay: Lefty butthurt abounds.

Vote with your wallet if you don't like Walmart. Live your life and stop worrying about other people that don't give a shiat about you.

As a Christian I care about people. I don't want someone to work and still not be able to afford shelter, food, healthcare. I am a "lefty" because I believe Christians should act and think and love more like Christ did and not like the Devil. You can always tell if someone is a true follower of Christ by their love for their fellow man. Rest assured the people on the right who claim to be Christians but hate the sick, the poor and those they deem unworthy will hear God say that He never knew them. So keep on with that "lefty" crap and your greed at the expense of others. You will impress your money worshiping, fake Christian friends but you will lose your soul.


Exactly. Lefties seem to be reading from a gospel where Christ said "Lo, petition Rome to compel thy rich neighbors to give of theirs to help the poor. That counts for thine share, too"

Lefties pass laws to try to compel people to act Christian economically - Righties socially. Neither counts for much.
2013-09-12 04:23:16 PM
2 votes:

steamingpile: Whats your point? They earned it and can do what they want.


They inherited it. Big difference.
2013-09-12 04:19:45 PM
2 votes:
Non of my business.  Non of yours either, subby.

If they're doing something illegal, let us know.

Otherwise, MYOB and GBTW.  Earn your own billions and donate them as you see fit.
2013-09-12 04:17:23 PM
2 votes:
YA know what's funny? For the past two weeks we have been undergoing out yearly SQF audit by Wal Mart AND Target. Yes. They both use the same auditing firm. Part of this audit involves Ethical Sourcing where by they go over all our policies and practices to insure that all of our hiring practices, benefit practices and so on are done ethically. When the auditor was sitting here going over my part of this yesterday, he asked if we actively inform the employees of their right to join a union. I wanted to say 'fark no, do we look stupid?' But I was cool about it and said, 'No, but it is posted with the mandatory Labor Law posters'.
2013-09-12 04:02:19 PM
2 votes:

ManRay: Live your life and stop worrying about other people that don't give a shiat about you

 are actively trying to create a new royal class in this country, screwing everyone else in the process.

FTFY, and GFY.
2013-09-12 04:02:00 PM
2 votes:
This is why estate taxes exist. We have agreed, as a society, that at least some of these huge piles of wealth should be put back into the public coffers when their rich owners die.

This is the dumbest line from the article, this tax does not affect the rich they just move their money where it is not subjected to this tax, this law affects the middle class to low income people the most when they have richer relatives die and have no clue how to handle money that would desperately help them pay off a lot of their bills. Our 2nd cousins had their uncle die after he had a ton of oil tapped on his property, after he died they had to sell off most of the property to pay off taxes due, they are still broke as shiat since after that all that was left was a few thousand per each family. If they could have kept most of it quite a few of their kids could have went to college but now they are stuck working shiat jobs that endanger their health and safety on a daily basis.

The estate tax law needs to be changed to allow poor or middle class to keep more, its a farking cash grab from the government and idiots act like this is a rich tax.
2013-09-12 03:54:50 PM
2 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?


Hey there is no need for logic in these threads, its a hate on wal mart thread.

They completely ignore that they have donated millions to schools in their home state and built one of the finest museums/art galleries not in a major city.

Morons get mad at them because they dont have white or rich guilt like the others who have gotten money, it amazes me to this day how the kennedy's are so revered yet people ignore how their father was such a scumbag and was the only reason why they were rich.
2013-09-12 03:54:08 PM
2 votes:

TV's Vinnie: A swirling vortex of avarice, cruelty, and inbred stupidity.


i.telegraph.co.uk
You rang? Masters of the charitable lead trust.
2013-09-12 03:51:00 PM
2 votes:
"Some billionaires, such as Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, have pledged to give away the vast majority of their fortunes to charity"

They can pledge to fly a unicorn over a rainbow to Jupiter and back,,,,it doesn't mean they are going to.
2013-09-12 03:47:37 PM
2 votes:
You put an extra eighth of an inch of pine tar on the bat; I paid the umpires to blow every close call in my favor.

We're both guilty!
wee [TotalFark]
2013-09-12 03:07:48 PM
2 votes:
Who farking cares?  It's their dimes...
2013-09-12 02:48:10 PM
2 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: doyner: Apparently when the page loaded on your computer the link sent you to an American Potatoe diatribe instead.

There's more truth to that than you intended.

On one hand Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are great people because they give a lot of money to charity. Oh and the Waltons do too...more than Buffet and almost as much as Gates (Wal Mart's charitable donations not included) but they get tax breaks. No mention of the possibility that Gates and Buffet might....juuuuuuuuuuust might realize some tax breaks as well.

Weapons grade potato(e).


For the record, Buffet and Gates are just as much a part of the problem as the Waltons.  They're just less douchey about it these days.
2013-09-13 11:40:00 AM
1 votes:
A lot of hate for WalMart but you'll still vote for Hillary.
2013-09-12 11:34:39 PM
1 votes:
Let's review.

www.cedmagic.com

Hero

www.esquire.com

Not the hero.
2013-09-12 09:49:15 PM
1 votes:

Kit Fister: So what do we do? Make the rich give their money to the poor? Pay more in taxes?


There is only one way tomake people not be self absorbed, greedy, leviathanesque douchebags.

That is to make them not WANT to beself absorbed, greedy, leviathanesque douchebags.

The problem is that we, as usual, voted in a false god.  Let's face it, money is a piss poor god.

The problem isn't so much greed as that incredibly pig nasty, "ha ha, suffer, b*tch" greed is viewed as an achievement.  The problem is we were told by every jerkoff with a Panavision camera and an ad budget for 35 years that greed is hep and kewl.  The problem is we all stare at money's festered, pus oozing schlong and and patiently in line for a chance to suck it.  The problem is we spend half our time trying to figure out how to accomplish things we know in our bones are pretty pathetic and sh*tty and the rest of it trying to rationalize it.  Ethics, despite a 35 year long marketing campaign, really ARE important.  They keep us from pronouncing our chamber pots to be perfumeries.
2013-09-12 09:05:00 PM
1 votes:

Via Infinito: wee: Who farking cares?  It's their dimes...

I'll just leave this here for you.


Succinct and accurate.  Thanks for the TF.   :  )
2013-09-12 08:54:45 PM
1 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?


That they pay their workers shiat wages? Not really about taxes, it's about it's about stinking rich people amassing obscene amounts of wealth on the backs of people they pay less than a living wage to.
2013-09-12 08:48:58 PM
1 votes:

Kit Fister: Bunner, I've always considered you reasonably sane.


Well, that's nice to know.  thanks.

Kit Fister: Is the whole problem here the fact that they have made a lot of money? That they made a lot of money off of farking over their workers? What? In plain English for us economically retarded people.


The problem is that any society that concentrates all the wealth, power and access into the hands of an "elite" few usually ends up on the ass end of a blowtorch.  I sort of like what this joint sells itself as.  The way it actually works, or doesn't, is not that's in that ad.

Kit Fister: To me all the justifications for being upset sound an awful lot like "he has more than me and its not fair" bickering.


That's because if you can convince people that the only reason the poor and ill used are poor and ill used is because they're just jealous poo heads, it keeps the whole "YOU CAN ACHIEVE ANYTHING!" malarkey daisy fresh, despite the electric fence and glass case.

Kit Fister: So why are we wasting electrons when we're getting nowhere and not even really making cogent arguments that educate.


I don't think it's totally futile to let people know that if they weren't born to a man who made enough money to make Croesus vomit, that they're not a useless putz, a failure or a leech and that maybe, just maybe, all this free range opportunity - anybody can grab a pony and ride BS - is, oddly, BS.  Also, yeah, I tend to shill for ethics as a self evidently valuable construct.  Wider scope view and all that.  Then again, I'm not rich, so I probably just wish I could sleep with a Walton heir and buy a Rolls to impress all the other poors at the local bar.  *sigh*
2013-09-12 08:17:47 PM
1 votes:

steamingpile: Whats your point? They earned it and can do what they want.


yeah falling out of the right vagina takes a lot of skill.
2013-09-12 07:36:41 PM
1 votes:
I think that it's important to remember that these fine Americans® amassed this wealth through the wholesale slaughter of rural American small business.  These assholes destroyed small town pharmacies not by offering better prices, but by taking losses on pharmaceuticals to force independent pharmacies out of business then raising the prices  once the competition was eliminated. All while bashing their critics as anti-American.

/The Arkansas way.
2013-09-12 07:22:26 PM
1 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?


Plutocracy is the beef.

Not just personal jealousy and wanting to 'tear down' successful people, which you might like to view it as. It's about the power and leverage that come with it and the entitlement/entrenchment of massive inherited fortunes in a market system.

There's no reason to think that such a system couldn't be just as perverse and freedom-limiting as  communism. Or any other failed system, for that matter. Implementation and maintenance matter.
2013-09-12 06:30:52 PM
1 votes:

bunner: "SNAP benefits are bankrupting us!"

"Don't you have like a tenth of a trillion dollars in the bank that you aren't putting back into the economy?"

"Yes and I earned it!  Selling Chinese crap to people on SNAP benefits and.. giving jobs to people on SNAP benefits that don't pay enough for them to become ineligible!"

"Ah."


To paraphrase E.J. Dionne, modern conservatism relies on the theory that the rich will work harder if we give them more, while the poor will work harder if we give them less.
2013-09-12 06:08:24 PM
1 votes:

ZombieBear: It is interesting to note all the people defending the Walton's and other members of the ultra rich


The same people who defend the helpless rich also whine about the economy not recovering fast enough. Their argument relies on the perceived emotion of the less fortunate, not any economic or historical fact.
2013-09-12 06:06:50 PM
1 votes:
It is interesting to note all the people defending the Walton's and other members of the ultra rich, are the same people the ultra rich would (possibly have) toss under a buss to make an extra buck.

That said, I would also like to point out that Greece is horribly in debt right now, and most of the problems that the country has can be directly related to the countries national pastime of tax evasion.
2013-09-12 06:05:20 PM
1 votes:

Fade2black: BraveNewCheneyWorld: To all the "who cares" people.  Even if you don't shop at walmart, you are subsidizing their profits though taxes.  They don't pay their employees a living wage, so those employees get public benefits which are paid by you.  Walmart is a socialized retail chain with privatized profits.  It is absolutely un-American.

According to the left, that is exactly how things should be run.


Oh look how stupid you are!
2013-09-12 05:51:04 PM
1 votes:
Dear Grandma, Grandpa and John Boy.

It's a zero sum game.

And you are leaving it all here and it will likely be pissed away or torched by poors when the sh*t hits the fan.

And all your money won't another second buy.  Ha ha.
2013-09-12 05:50:52 PM
1 votes:

nosferatublue: J. Frank Parnell: Phineas: What's this?  Another thread full of liberals whining about other people having things, and mistakenly believing that the fact that others have things somehow prevents they themselves from having things?  Carry on.

It's not really a liberal thing as much as a global economics thing. There's only so much wealth in the world, and the people hoarding trillions actually are preventing others from having it.

Because they bury it under a rock and leave it to rot, right?

What do you think all this money is doing, pray tell?


Poor and middle class people that are given money spend it, increasing demand. Rich people that are given money spend some of it, but less than equivalent poorer people would given the same amount, and thus create less extra demand because invest a lot of it. Now if the economy is short of investment capital then money going to rich people might be better for the economy overall because the extra investment could increase employment more than just an increase in demand. But the last 30 years at least there have been massive surpluses of investment capital, hence all the asset booms - too much money chasing too few good investment opportunities.

So effectively every extra $70k or so each rich person accumulates from the economy in the modern situation works out to be one less jobs worth of aggregate demand, and one more person out of work, due to the opportunity cost of the same money being paid in wages to someone would spend it all rather than just some of it.
2013-09-12 05:47:50 PM
1 votes:

I alone am best: The problem is the people working there do not have the qualifications for anything better.


That argument would work, if not for places like Costco, which pay people far better than Walmart.
2013-09-12 05:24:32 PM
1 votes:

OgreMagi: cptrios: Every corporation must share 30% of its profits with its employees.

No corporation ever makes a profit.  Seriously, go look at the tax records.


If I could fix two things about the United States tax code, it would be these two things:
1. Where your headquarters is is the state in which you pay corporate taxes. Easiest example, Apple. Huge famous headquarters in Cali, incorporated out of a one door office in Nevada that no-one farking works in.
2. The portion of income you make off of this country, documented down to the god damn dime, is the portion of your companies profits, regardless of subsidiaries, that you pay in this country. None of this crap where you make $50 million as a company, but the American branch shows a lose by paying $100 million to an Ireland based subsidiary. Sorry, not gonnna work that way.
2013-09-12 05:13:25 PM
1 votes:

Thunderpipes: BKITU: steamingpile: The estate tax law needs to be changed to allow poor or middle class to keep more, its a farking cash grab from the government and idiots act like this is a rich tax.

From the IRS website: the applicable exclusion amount for 2013 is $5,250,000.

If you think the estate tax hits the poor or middle class, you're a tool of punditry.

And the rancher who is sitting on millions in land, but doesn't make much money a year, can't pass it on to their kids, because the IRS will simply take the land. nice. No choice but to sell it off.


There are multiple ways around this.  The most common is to incorporate the ranch/farm/cottages/boat as a business, and over a period of several years transfer shares of the business to your relatives.  If you have that many assets, you should be thinking about this kind of thing well in advance of your death.  After all, why give your children a huge windfall only after you die?? Shouldn't you be looking out for them when you are still living?

The estate tax only affects a very small few who have piles of cash lying around and didn't plan ahead.  Sorry, but you either have to be colossally stupid or stupidly rich if you can't get out of them.  The estate tax will never apply to 99% of the people who defend it.
2013-09-12 05:12:35 PM
1 votes:

letrole: Anyone who makes snide remarks about Wal-Mart also tends to:

1. Own a TV but haven't turned it on in years
2. Drink microbrewery beer
3. Watch Japanese children's cartoons on a Mac
4. Appreciate the warmth of vinyl phonograph records
5. Read books at Starbucks
6. Claim to prefer girls with small breasts
7. Ride a bike wearing spandex stretch trousers
8. Walk past a smoker and force pretentious coughing noises
9. Take comfort in believing size doesn't matter
10. Feign disgust at the idea of eating a Big Mac


Your list is old and you should be ashamed.
2013-09-12 05:09:28 PM
1 votes:
The Waltons would hire child labor to cut costs if it were legal.  They are scum.

I have nothing against getting rich.  I have nothing against wanting to keep your profits.  The Waltons are getting rich via a taxpayer subsidy (the highest rate of employees on government assistance in the entire country).

The Waltons will be amongst the first against the wall when ther revolution comes (just after politicians).
2013-09-12 04:58:55 PM
1 votes:

steamingpile: it amazes me to this day how the kennedy's are so revered yet people ignore how their father was such a scumbag and was the only reason why they were rich.


My dad was a scumbag. Does that mean I can never be revered?

Come to think of it, is that why I'm  not revered already? Seriously, you people need to start with the reverence already. While I'm young, please.
2013-09-12 04:55:57 PM
1 votes:

Phineas: Its somewhat funny but mostly sad... The amount of OWS-type idiots who believe rich people are preventing others from having things. Spend less time gobbling up whatever Obama and the rest of the Democrat party are ejaculating, and more time focusing on improving your own quality of life, and youll be far happier.


There are a lot of strawmen in this thread. It's starting to present a fire hazard.
2013-09-12 04:52:45 PM
1 votes:

Phoenix_M: Bill Gates and Warren Buffet aren't giving away shiat, it's a tax scam.


Ever taken a deduction? You're participating in the tax scam you're complaining about, so STFU.
2013-09-12 04:43:42 PM
1 votes:
Can we please raise the capital gains tax? Why should money made by having money be taxed less then money earned by hard work and labor? I mean if anything it should be taxed at a higher rate.
GBB
2013-09-12 04:42:52 PM
1 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?



"Take advantage of", or "create"?
Because I'm under the assumption that people with that much money and that much at stake have a hand at crafting such laws; not sit idly by hoping that the IRS doesn't suddenly go to 95% tax rates on income over $10M.
2013-09-12 04:42:41 PM
1 votes:

ManRay: Lefty butthurt abounds.

Vote with your wallet if you don't like Walmart. Live your life and stop worrying about other people that don't give a shiat about you.


Good advice. (Seriously.) But while I'm out there voting with my wallet, I'll also be voting for people who'll raise taxes on the Waltons.

And myself. And people who make slightly less than me, and everyone in between. Possibly including you.

That's right. I'm coming for your money and I'm going to spend it on people who need it more than you do, like some kind of soshalest monster. Well, actually, I'm just going to spend it on people in general, but I don't really expect you to see it that way, or to like it one bit.

And if I ever succeed, thanks in advance for keeping your butthurt about how overtaxed you are to yourself. ;)
2013-09-12 04:41:04 PM
1 votes:

Scoop84: Headso: nosferatublue: What do you think all this money is doing, pray tell?

I'll tell you what it's not doing.... It's certainly not paying their employees a living wage so the rest of the tax payers don't have to pick up their slack.

Where would they be working if Wal-Mart didn't exist?  Instead of picking up the slack, would we be picking up even more?


Wal-mart can exist and still pay their employees better, if 1 family can have 100 billion dollars off the backs of these workers it's obvious.
2013-09-12 04:39:45 PM
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: nosferatublue: What do you think all this money is doing, pray tell?

not helping the US economy very much.



Interesting. You say this based on...? Do you have any idea what kind of portfolio the family is invested in - domestic stocks, venture capital, municipal bonds, foreign stocks, etc? Any idea what they spend it on, and where?

Or are you just blowing smoke out of your behind?
2013-09-12 04:37:17 PM
1 votes:

anfrind: J. Frank Parnell: Phineas: <stupidity deleted>

It's not really a liberal thing as much as a global economics thing. There's only so much wealth in the world, and the people hoarding trillions actually are preventing others from having it.

Do you really think a semi-literate Republitroll cares about facts?


The world economy is not a zero-sum game.
2013-09-12 04:35:05 PM
1 votes:

nosferatublue: What do you think all this money is doing, pray tell?


not helping the US economy very much.

BigGrnEggGriller: I marvel at how entitled some people think they are to other people's stuff.


Given we're talking about people who won the birth lottery and inherited what they have, they didn't go earn it like their dad did, that statement achieves near cosmic levels of irony.
2013-09-12 04:34:27 PM
1 votes:

Phineas: What's this?  Another thread full of liberals whining about other people having things, and mistakenly believing that the fact that others have things somehow prevents they themselves from having things?  Carry on.


I love the part when they start going "But, but, but, Jeebus".  It's the one topic where lefties fall back on religion.
2013-09-12 04:32:36 PM
1 votes:
I marvel at how entitled some people think they are to other people's stuff.
2013-09-12 04:32:00 PM
1 votes:
Noblesse oblige is a good concept.

You can work hard, and work honestly, and earn a living - or a fortune. There is nothing dishonorable about that. Feel proud of your effort and its fruits.

But the playing field isn't level, the market isn't free, and everyone is interconnected. There is always an element of luck, however small, to success. The grander your successes and the greater your pile of cash, the more people you are likely to have stepped on to get there - consciously or not.

Acknowledging this, and acting to soften those footfalls, are the responsible things to do, whether you make $40k a year or $40 million.
2013-09-12 04:26:35 PM
1 votes:

BigGrnEggGriller: Non of my business.  Non of yours either, subby.


It's only none of your business if you don't pay any taxes, if you pay taxes you are subsidizing the Walton family fortune and it is your business.
2013-09-12 04:24:42 PM
1 votes:

doyner: Dancin_In_Anson: doyner: Maybe because that family has more sway over what tax law is than yours or mine.

I'm still trying to figure out what the gripe is in TFA.

I think it's pretty straightforward.  They're masters at legal tax evasion.


As voted for by members of Congress who write the tax laws. Harry Reid and Nacey Pelosi are as much if not more ethicly challenged than the Walton's,  That's Their own money, Reid and Pelosi use YOUR money to cheat the system.
2013-09-12 04:20:01 PM
1 votes:
The 'super rich' aren't harmed by the estate tax.  It keeps the lesser families from joining them without windfall.
2013-09-12 04:18:12 PM
1 votes:
Why would you expect anything different? They have crappy products in their stores, horrible employment practices, and are unrepentant about both. Why would you expect them to act like anything other than the white trash nouveau riche assholes that they are....
2013-09-12 04:11:09 PM
1 votes:

TV's Vinnie: The whole Wal Mart system, from it's disgustingly-greedy owners, to it's awful policies against a decent living wage, to the horrific abominations of nature who go there to shop, is proof without a doubt that there is no God.

A swirling vortex of avarice, cruelty, and inbred stupidity.


yet you forgot to mention the most 'used' people of all in the entire supply chain.. the actual slave laborers making the products in shiatty factories..
2013-09-12 04:10:52 PM
1 votes:

Tigger: Conservatism is just what we call the political expression of the character flaw selfishness.


Hillary Clinton was on the board when they started their made in anywhere but America practices. It is no surprise that her husband would be the one to make China a permanent most favored trading nation, despite protests from both parties.  Their Walmart stock tingled with excitement at that.
2013-09-12 04:06:20 PM
1 votes:
It's too bad that greed doesn't cause ass cancer.
2013-09-12 04:03:45 PM
1 votes:

Red Shirt Blues: TV's Vinnie: A swirling vortex of avarice, cruelty, and inbred stupidity.

[i.telegraph.co.uk image 460x287]
You rang? Masters of the charitable lead trust.


and yet he worked his whole life trying to get people health care.
while the Waltons work hard to deny people benefits.
2013-09-12 03:57:39 PM
1 votes:

Uncle Pooky: Richest family in the world? That seems incorrect. Wouldn't the Saudi Royal family or the English Monarchy hold that title?


The English monarchy is fahkin NOTHING. They are, on a worldwide scale, relatively poor. I think I remember hearing they had a total of 85 mil. to the crown. If that. Very 'Meh" for a Regency.

The Saudi Family oil $ might be pretty astronomical though...
2013-09-12 03:57:35 PM
1 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?


that Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are philanthropists who do great things for humanity with their money while the Waltons want neo-slaves to labor for them so they can hoard their wealth and buy more political power?
2013-09-12 03:55:57 PM
1 votes:

ManRay: Lefty butthurt abounds.

Vote with your wallet if you don't like Walmart. Live your life and stop worrying about other people that don't give a shiat about you.


We're outnumbered by low-information consumers.
2013-09-12 03:51:50 PM
1 votes:
Just once I would like one of these billionaires to donate some money to my charity, the Shtetl G Foundation for the Advancement of the Procurement of Hookers and Blow.  But no,  those greedy farks want to keep their misbegotten cash.
2013-09-12 03:51:12 PM
1 votes:
Richest family in the world? That seems incorrect. Wouldn't the Saudi Royal family or the English Monarchy hold that title?
2013-09-12 03:50:29 PM
1 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?


That YOU seem to find nothing wrong with any of it.
2013-09-12 03:50:28 PM
1 votes:
clancifer [TotalFark]
2013-09-12 01:52:53 PM
Why should we penalize such successful people? If you want the government to have its money, have it stop helping the indigent and poor and simply leave rich people to their earnings.
I R troll retard

/tea party logic
/Liberal talking point
2013-09-12 03:50:07 PM
1 votes:

wee: Who farking cares?  It's their dimes...


Glad you are willing to pay more in taxes to make up for theirs.
Very patriotic of you, citizen.
2013-09-12 03:49:08 PM
1 votes:
I'm not one to condone violence....BUT

I would definitely be in the mob that tarred and feathered these jackasses.

/C'mon people, stop shopping at Wal-Mart
2013-09-12 03:48:46 PM
1 votes:
I just want government to be so small we can drown the Waltons and anti-tax assholes in their f*cking bathtubs.
2013-09-12 03:40:37 PM
1 votes:
That article was farking terrible. The point seems to be that the exceptionally wealthy have managed to "cheat" the system by crafting increasingly complicated shell games to hide their money and we should address this problem to make sure they're paying a reasonable share back into the system that they use to build and maintain that wealth. And it's right, of course.

But the Waltons are only a symptom of that problem and it's completely unjustifiable to go about attacking them directly in the way the writer did. They're an EXAMPLE of what's wrong with the system, they're not, in this instance, the actual problem.

Although, considering the source I guess it's about on par with my expectations.
2013-09-12 03:34:14 PM
1 votes:
old news is old
2013-09-12 03:12:28 PM
1 votes:

wee: Who farking cares?  It's their dimes...


I'll just leave this here for you.
2013-09-12 02:51:18 PM
1 votes:

doyner: For the record, Buffet and Gates are just as much a part of the problem as the Waltons.


You wouldn't know it from reading this article.
2013-09-12 02:31:51 PM
1 votes:
The House of Saud points and laughs.
2013-09-12 02:19:01 PM
1 votes:

doyner: Maybe because that family has more sway over what tax law is than yours or mine.


I'm still trying to figure out what the gripe is in TFA.
 
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