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(Gawker)   Some billionaires, such as Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, have pledged to give away the vast majority of their fortunes to charity. Then there are the Waltons, who inherited their billions and are going to fight to keep every last dime   (gawker.com) divider line 475
    More: Interesting, Bill Gates, Sam Walton, Walton family, John D. Rockefeller, Gilded Age  
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18255 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Sep 2013 at 3:29 PM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



475 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-12 09:05:00 PM

Via Infinito: wee: Who farking cares?  It's their dimes...

I'll just leave this here for you.


Succinct and accurate.  Thanks for the TF.   :  )
 
2013-09-12 09:06:37 PM

bunner: dropdfun: My aunt falls into this category, wasted what she could have saved for the first 40 years of her life on cocaine and partying

Yeah, you caught me.  Anybody who is in ill health AND poor and can't find work pissed it all away on cocaine.  Nothing gets past you.  Nice bootstraps.


Never implied such, was just stating a personal family experience relating to someone in poor health that has a place to stay and food to eat without ever having saved for a rainy day. If you honestly cant work there are programs to help, that was what I was trying to convey. In her case she doesn't biatch about not owning a house and or having the newest and nicest things because she has owned up to her mistakes in life. She is upset that she is ill but who wouldn't be?
 
2013-09-12 09:07:20 PM

dropdfun: He was living, not high on the hog but he had what he wanted in life as far as I can tell.


www.complete-feed.com
 
2013-09-12 09:09:09 PM

bmihura: TV's Vinnie: The whole Wal Mart system, from it's disgustingly-greedy owners, to it's awful policies against a decent living wage, to the horrific abominations of nature who go there to shop, is proof without a doubt that there is no God.

A swirling vortex of avarice, cruelty, and inbred stupidity.

Don't like it? Vote with your wallet.


Oh, I most certainly do, good sir. I've been taking my business to Target when possible, even moreso now that they have a debit card with 5% discount.

You have no idea how much better it is to shop without worrying about feeling like you've stumbled into an Island of the Mutants.
 
2013-09-12 09:13:32 PM

bunner: dropdfun: He was living, not high on the hog but he had what he wanted in life as far as I can tell.

[www.complete-feed.com image 500x299]


I doubt that's what those animals want in life and to compare livestock to a person with free will, well it just doesn't compute. As far as I knew no one put a gun to that guys head and made him stock Walmart. I could be wrong and Walmart is the debil but I have yet so see a team of Walmart rustlers roaming the streets at night rounding up people into livestock trucks to work their stores.
 
2013-09-12 09:16:24 PM

bunner: Kit Fister: Bunner, I've always considered you reasonably sane.

Well, that's nice to know.  thanks.

Kit Fister: Is the whole problem here the fact that they have made a lot of money? That they made a lot of money off of farking over their workers? What? In plain English for us economically retarded people.

The problem is that any society that concentrates all the wealth, power and access into the hands of an "elite" few usually ends up on the ass end of a blowtorch.  I sort of like what this joint sells itself as.  The way it actually works, or doesn't, is not that's in that ad.

Kit Fister: To me all the justifications for being upset sound an awful lot like "he has more than me and its not fair" bickering.

That's because if you can convince people that the only reason the poor and ill used are poor and ill used is because they're just jealous poo heads, it keeps the whole "YOU CAN ACHIEVE ANYTHING!" malarkey daisy fresh, despite the electric fence and glass case.

Kit Fister: So why are we wasting electrons when we're getting nowhere and not even really making cogent arguments that educate.

I don't think it's totally futile to let people know that if they weren't born to a man who made enough money to make Croesus vomit, that they're not a useless putz, a failure or a leech and that maybe, just maybe, all this free range opportunity - anybody can grab a pony and ride BS - is, oddly, BS.  Also, yeah, I tend to shill for ethics as a self evidently valuable construct.  Wider scope view and all that.  Then again, I'm not rich, so I probably just wish I could sleep with a Walton heir and buy a Rolls to impress all the other poors at the local bar.  *sigh*


Well I ain't rich either brother and I honestly am nit sure I'd really want to be. I make enough to pay the bills and I can enjoy what I can outside of work. Being rich wouldn't fix my ills, just make them less evident.

Guess my philosophy has always been that the pursuit of wealth is an all consuming endeavor and just ends up farking you in the end.

So what do we do? Make the rich give their money to the poor? Pay more in taxes? What do we achieve by doing that? None of that will make businesses create jobs.no regulation or pressure is going to create jobs or raise salaries. Look what's already happened: when wages got too high and the American worker got too demanding, they just shipped the jobs to a cheaper market.

You can biatch about the wealthy, but maybe the lesson here is that when society grows to a point where commerce and wealth is so unbelievably large that this sort of thing can happen, they inherently fall prey to the same failures. We keep failing in the same ways, and yet we keep pinpointing different reasons. Time to face the music and accept that maybe we as a species aren't made to live in monolithic cultures like we are.
 
2013-09-12 09:18:01 PM

bunner: dropdfun: He was living, not high on the hog but he had what he wanted in life as far as I can tell.


If you're happy with what you have, why should you care about acquiring more? Not everyone wants to accumulate shiat for its own sake.
 
2013-09-12 09:19:31 PM
So, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have already done so and are dirt poor?  Oh, that's right, they promised to do so when they die.  How selfless, since they can't take it with them.

/Meanwhile, you should all like Donald Trump.
//He taught his kids to live on their own means.
///Though I don't know what he plans to do with whatever he may have when he passes.
 
2013-09-12 09:24:32 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: FlashHarry: well, that's their right, of course. just as it's my right not to shop at their shiatty stores.

Precisely.  Though I do take issue with them amassing such a fortune by keeping the people that work for them on wages too low to support them.  But yeah - I vote with my wallet.


I get the sense that jealous people think they're entitled to all those billions they didn't farking earn.
 
2013-09-12 09:28:48 PM
Lots and lots of butthurt in that article. The author is such a whiny douche. The Waltons aren't the only family to makes billions on the backs of their employees. Get over it
 
2013-09-12 09:30:44 PM
Rich bastards hoarding their wealth.

I say burn the witches and eat the waltons. If you are rich and live in the developed world then most of your wealth should be taken from you. Call it a kickback for keeping the unwashed masses from plundering all that they have.
 
2013-09-12 09:34:08 PM

utahraptor2: Benevolent Misanthrope: FlashHarry: well, that's their right, of course. just as it's my right not to shop at their shiatty stores.

Precisely.  Though I do take issue with them amassing such a fortune by keeping the people that work for them on wages too low to support them.  But yeah - I vote with my wallet.

I get the sense that jealous people think they're entitled to all those billions they didn't farking earn.


Well, if you made fortunes like Henry Ford who brought in people, housed them, educated them, helped them get citizenship, and paid them well for working g at his plants, then I would agree.

The issue seems to be not with the wads of cash they have (at least for most people, some just hate anyone with more money than they have, greed's brother jealousy) but the fact that they live large with massive fortunes while running businesses that pay shiat wages and use cheap labor markets to make those piles.

If you come by your fortune honestly, or your family came by it honestly, and you deal with your workers and suppliers honorably, then who the fark cares? Take it and do what you want.

If you fark over your fellow man, well, that is worthy of contempt in its own right.
 
2013-09-12 09:36:33 PM

teenage mutant ninja rapist: Rich bastards hoarding their wealth.

I say burn the witches and eat the waltons. If you are rich and live in the developed world then most of your wealth should be taken from you. Call it a kickback for keeping the unwashed masses from plundering all that they have.


Okay, cool. So I can send the dozen families I know who subsist on food stamps and a pittance from disability through no fault of their own to come live with you and take your shiat? After all, compared to them you're the next farking bill gates.
 
2013-09-12 09:39:43 PM

freak7: Gyrfalcon: I've never set foot in a WalMart.

I bet that scores you all the chicks.


I'm not really into chicks, being one myself. Except, you know, Farkettes, and they know who they are.

Although I might be into the kind of chicks who'd be impressed by a fellow woman who loves shopping but refuses to shop in a Walmart.

Hm, a possibility I've not considered...
 
2013-09-12 09:46:49 PM
The loopholes. Close them.
 
2013-09-12 09:48:09 PM
crisisboom.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-09-12 09:49:15 PM

Kit Fister: So what do we do? Make the rich give their money to the poor? Pay more in taxes?


There is only one way tomake people not be self absorbed, greedy, leviathanesque douchebags.

That is to make them not WANT to beself absorbed, greedy, leviathanesque douchebags.

The problem is that we, as usual, voted in a false god.  Let's face it, money is a piss poor god.

The problem isn't so much greed as that incredibly pig nasty, "ha ha, suffer, b*tch" greed is viewed as an achievement.  The problem is we were told by every jerkoff with a Panavision camera and an ad budget for 35 years that greed is hep and kewl.  The problem is we all stare at money's festered, pus oozing schlong and and patiently in line for a chance to suck it.  The problem is we spend half our time trying to figure out how to accomplish things we know in our bones are pretty pathetic and sh*tty and the rest of it trying to rationalize it.  Ethics, despite a 35 year long marketing campaign, really ARE important.  They keep us from pronouncing our chamber pots to be perfumeries.
 
2013-09-12 09:49:17 PM

Fade2black: Dusk-You-n-Me: Out come the SNAP scapegoats, the cause of all our economic problems, $130/month at a time.

HeartBurnKid: St Andrew: "I have never understood why it isgreed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." - Thomas Sowell

"I hate quotation. Tell me what you know." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Got burned, replied with snark.  Good jorb.


way south: HeartBurnKid: way south: I thought the point of it being your money is that you can decide what to do with it.
Not everyone is a philanthropist just because they are rich.

Well, yeah, you can decide what to do with it.  And we can decide what we think of you based on what you do with it.

Your tears of impotent rage are fine so long as they don't end up costing my estate money.
The only obligation I have is to pay the taxes. Anything beyond that is purely optional.

/there's no guarantee that those who put money into a charity of their own making aren't just sheltering it creatively.
/These guys might be getting hare for being honest about their intentions.


These must be some new definitions of "burn" and "tears" I'm unfamiliar with.
 
2013-09-12 09:52:16 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?


They also donate money....but according to TFA, because they pay as little in taxes as they can, those donations don't count.

There is nothing philanthropic about estate taxes. Its just another tax and avoiding it isn't greed.
 
2013-09-12 09:54:29 PM

austin_millbarge: Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?

That they pay their workers shiat wages? Not really about taxes, it's about it's about stinking rich people amassing obscene amounts of wealth on the backs of people they pay less than a living wage to.


And then sticking the American people with the bill because so many of those employees need government assistance. America does not exist to subsidize the Walton's business.
 
2013-09-12 09:58:42 PM

parasol: something about rich men...and heaven....and camels and the eyes of needles....

wonder what the stats are of walmart shoppers claiming to be chrisitans


Was Bob Cratchit guilty of Scrooges greed?
 
2013-09-12 10:01:53 PM

MechaPyx: austin_millbarge: Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?

That they pay their workers shiat wages? Not really about taxes, it's about it's about stinking rich people amassing obscene amounts of wealth on the backs of people they pay less than a living wage to.

And then sticking the American people with the bill because so many of those employees need government assistance. America does not exist to subsidize the Walton's business.


Simple solution. Every Wal Mart employee quits tomorrow, en-mass ... and no one steps foot in one of their store to buy anything ever again. Since a large portion of the Walton fortune is tied up in the stock of the company ... they'd quickly go from Billionaires to paupers pretty quick.

No dynasty to leave their crotch-fruit.
 
2013-09-12 10:09:39 PM
Pardon me Nolan, but I am not interested in what YOU think reasonable people will think or not.  We get it, you are not a fan of WalMart or the Walton family.  Fine, you are entitled to your opinion, but maybe you could just state your opinion and stand behind it instead of trying to hide behind fictional "reasonable people."

Also, when you compare the Walton family to John D. Rockefeller, you are actually paying them a compliment and undercutting your basic argument.  At his death in 1937, Rockefeller had donated over $530,000,000 to various causes, individuals and medical crusades.

I also find it curious that the author of this "article" would encourage people to ignore any of the many charitable contributions the Walton Family Foundation/Walton family members make b/c it obviously is not enough.  Specifically, each of us has been urged to ignore the significant donation by Sam Walton's daughter to build the roughly $320,000,000 Crystal Bridges Museum (WalMart is also picking up the entrance fees so the operational costs are going to have to be picked up by someone.. any guesses?)

While I do not know how much the Walton Family Foundation has donated to various causes, I suspect that with this author it would never be enough.

Warren Buffet often talks about how he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary/assistant and some have challenged that he could choose to pay a higher tax rate if he was so disturbed by the current tax law.  I would argue, why should he?  As long as he and the Walton family are following the law, they are golden as far as I am concerned.

If the author wants to argue for tax reform, IMO he will have many people who agree with him, but if his argument is the government deserves the majority of an individual's wealth when they pass away, I am sure there will be some who agree, but he would be wrong.
 
2013-09-12 10:11:09 PM
If the Waltons family had any interest in anything other than themselves, they would have returned a hefty chunk of all that excess pelf into the economy in the form of wages, education and local manufacturing concerns.  They don't.  They haven't.  They wont.

Walton mart is a one trick pony.  Buy cheap sh*t by the shipload from whoever sells the lowest, fix prices for people who want to do business with them, blow it out the door with a few clueless idiots or OAPs for a staff who can't find real jobs, let mind the hangar and ring it up, and pay them dogsh*t.

And they plan on keeping every penny of it.  It is my only hope that they don't actually figure out how much of a chunk of an entire nation you can leverage with that many IOUs and they just stuff it up their asses until they choke.

Some people think their business model makes them heroes.  I think it makes them the fat kid in the corner at the birthday party, desperately shoving the whole cake in his mouth before the other kids find out what happened to it.
 
2013-09-12 10:11:40 PM

Animatronik: Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?

They also donate money....but according to TFA, because they pay as little in taxes as they can, those donations don't count.

There is nothing philanthropic about estate taxes. Its just another tax and avoiding it isn't greed.


Their "charitable trusts"?  hah!
 
2013-09-12 10:15:37 PM

jpo2269: As long as he and the Walton family are following the law, they are golden as far as I am concerned.


And that is the hole the in the skidmarked underpants that the emperor is modeling.  The chasm between who we say we are and how we actually conduct ourselves is always bridged, ever so tenuously, by the black letter of the laws that favor the people who dug the canyon.
 
2013-09-12 10:33:56 PM
"
If the Waltons family had any interest in anything other than themselves, they would have returned a hefty chunk of all that excess pelf into the economy in the form of wages, education and local manufacturing concerns""excess" whatever that means.And they do pay taxes, ijit.
 
2013-09-12 10:34:36 PM
bunner,

Have you trade marked that quote?  If not, I am going to use the fark out of it when it supports my positions. Have to admit, it's pretty sharp.

Now I do have a question, based on the author's premise.  If Warren Buffett and Bill/Melinda Gates donate most of their wealth at the time of their passing; is that donation pre or post tax?  If that donation is "pre-tax" then the author's argument is bunk as the govt. is not going to see any of that donated money.  If their estate is subject to taxation prior to donation than I have learned something tonight.
 
2013-09-12 10:36:09 PM

Cobataiwan: "excess" whatever that means


Well, to be fair, that's an assumption.  Lessee here, there's what, five of these motherf*ckers?  500 billion... Wow.  I really need to keep abreast of inflation more.
 
2013-09-12 10:39:42 PM

jpo2269: bunner,

Have you trade marked that quote?  If not, I am going to use the fark out of it when it supports my positions. Have to admit, it's pretty sharp.


Nah, rock on.  I'm thinking about writing a book, this winter but if I have to go around suing people who quote some of the stuff that might be in it, it's not going to be a very good book.   :  )

Now I do have a question, based on the author's premise.  If Warren Buffett and Bill/Melinda Gates donate most of their wealth at the time of their passing; is that donation pre or post tax?  If that donation is "pre-tax" then the author's argument is bunk as the govt. is not going to see any of that donated money.  If their estate is subject to taxation prior to donation than I have learned something tonight.

IANACPA, but my best guess is that the IRS will get paid as the cloak of "no touchee, job creator" subsides with the passing of the baton.
 
2013-09-12 10:43:38 PM

Cobataiwan: ijit.


Have you ever read my opinion upon the people who come here to try and pass off rude, cheap, name calling as some sort of unimpeachable argument?  My opinion is that they have nothing at all to say except that their underpants don't fit well and their mom refuses to buy more hot pockets.
 
2013-09-12 10:48:00 PM
bunner,

That quote really is really something of beauty... nice work.  Good luck with your book.

Hey, I just read your last post and I have to protest; what do you have against Hot Pockets???
 
2013-09-12 11:02:28 PM

jpo2269: Hey, I just read your last post and I have to protest; what do you have against Hot Pockets???


Not just hot pockets.  Pretty much anything that is a cheap and badly engineered knockoff of real food tends to contain very little food and even less useful engineering.  I'm sort of old school.  My food tends to be something made on a stove.  YOLO!  *snort*
 
2013-09-12 11:07:25 PM
That 100 billion is just the money we can see via tax records on Walmart Corp. Who knows how much they have stashed in overseas accounts and overseas shill corporations to hold stock in their foreign suppliers.
 
2013-09-12 11:13:20 PM

sparkeyjames: That 100 billion is just the money we can see via tax records on Walmart Corp. Who knows how much they have stashed in overseas accounts and overseas shill corporations to hold stock in their foreign suppliers.


Which they will dump in about 10 seconds flat as soon as that supplier stops fixing their prices for their sweatshop crap at Walton's Mark™.  And with no disclosure.
 
2013-09-12 11:13:47 PM

bunner: jpo2269: Hey, I just read your last post and I have to protest; what do you have against Hot Pockets???

Not just hot pockets.  Pretty much anything that is a cheap and badly engineered knockoff of real food tends to contain very little food and even less useful engineering.  I'm sort of old school.  My food tends to be something made on a stove.  YOLO!  *snort*


This.

Rule of thumb: if it's designed to be "cooked" by being nuked in a microwave, it's probably not real food.
 
2013-09-12 11:33:21 PM

SmellsLikePoo: I'm not one to condone violence....BUT

I would definitely be in the mob that tarred and feathered these jackasses.

/C'mon people, stop shopping at Wal-Mart


I don't like shopping at walmart...but...they have generic nyquil for $.88 a box...and i can't sleep without it
 
2013-09-12 11:34:38 PM
bunner, you make me sad.....

As a child of the 80's, both my parents worked and on top of that both my brother and I played competitive sports year round, so if the damned thing didn't go in the microwave, we did not eat.....

Thankfully that drove me to learn how to cook old school, but still, why do you judge my family?????  :)
 
2013-09-12 11:34:39 PM
Let's review.

www.cedmagic.com

Hero

www.esquire.com

Not the hero.
 
2013-09-12 11:37:26 PM

jpo2269: why do you judge my family?????


I didn't even know they were in the pageant.   :  )

It probably has a lot to do with upbringing, yeah.

I actually remember when microwaves just started being something people could put in their kitchens without a food license.

Mom, she was a great old gal.  Cooked up a storm.  And let us cook when she didn't want to.  I'm sure yours is, too.
 
2013-09-12 11:46:44 PM
Wal Mart has the wherewithal, the distribution and the outlets to single handedly rebuild the American economy.

They could allocate shelf space for domestic goods and offer enough volume buys to make them profitable, if only marginally.

They could  pay their workers enough to actually raise families and assure their loyalties and build a reputation that would rival Carnegie for cutting edge capitalism as a humanitarian endeavor.  They could source more locally, lower their profit take per item by a few pennies and still make landslide profit margins and expand their customer base to people who no longer see them as a festering boil on the ass of the economy with practices that are not useful to Americans at large.

They wont.  They are going to probably just demand lower prices from Chinese sweat shops, push crap on a volume basis, sell sludge and buy legislation and generally keep crapping where we eat and they are going to shove every time into a bank account with their name on it and they will keep playing Risk with their stack of IOUs and we will let them because hey, it's cheaper than that guy with the hardware / clothing / grocery / house wares store.  *sigh*
 
2013-09-12 11:47:29 PM

parasol: something about rich men...and heaven....and camels and the eyes of needles....

wonder what the stats are of walmart shoppers claiming to be chrisitans


That was back then.  With modern technology we can force a Koch Brother through the eye of a needle.

\500 ton press no problem

Yeah_Right: Simple solution. Every Wal Mart employee quits tomorrow, en-mass ...


Simpler solution, you don't pay a living wage, the state taxes the snot out of you to pay for the services your broke ass employees use. Seriously no reason for the state to subsidize Walmart's strategy of winning the race to the bottom by paying for their employees food stamps, welfare, and medical care.
 
2013-09-12 11:51:48 PM
Let's look at the etymology of the word welfare.

To fare well.

To be OK.  To be getting by.  Not starving or ill or sitting in the street.  Fare thee well.  Well.  Welfare.

I think we should ALL start looking into America's welfare.  Cause it's sucking canal water.
 
2013-09-12 11:52:26 PM
bunner,

While you are too kind with your comments, sadly for all of the positives my mom had, cooking was not one of her strong suits.  Hell, one year my dad tried to hide Christmas presents only to have them go up in flames when my mom tried to pre-heat the oven for the one time of the year she tried to cook...

From the sounds of it, I bet your family never had a Christmas dinner of hotdogs when the turkey didn't come out as planned... But on the other hand... the hotdog Christmas will always be remembered with a big smile...

On a serious note, you sir are a gentleman and I am enjoying your contributions to this discussion.  Thanks for sharing.
 
2013-09-12 11:52:35 PM
Its not their fault. We, as a society, choose to allow a few to control the majority of the resources.
 
2013-09-12 11:57:06 PM

jpo2269: I bet your family never had a Christmas dinner of hotdogs when the turkey didn't come out as planned


We didn't do Christmas.  Not after I Was like, 8 or so.  A comic I worked with a lot wrote a joke about it.

"Yeah, I come from a weird, dysfunctional family.  My mom was a Jehovah's Witness and my dad was an atheist.  They used to go door to door for nor reason at all."

:  )

jpo2269: On a serious note, you sir are a gentleman and I am enjoying your contributions to this discussion.  Thanks for sharing.


Same.  *waits for the threadjack police*
 
2013-09-12 11:59:37 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Scoop84: People are still starting out with little and succeeding -- even going from nothing to the 1%.

Very few people. Which is kind of the point.

[mattbruenig.com image 549x400]

Link


It remains stunning to me that this graphic, which says more than half the people in the bottom quintile will move out of it, with 4 out of every 100 moving from the bottom to the top in one generation, is passed around with the belief that it makes a negative point.
 
2013-09-13 12:02:30 AM

Prophet of Loss: Its not their fault. We, as a society, choose to allow a few to control the majority of the resources.


My problem with this is the whole "the leading  cause of rape is rapists" thing.  Cause it's straight up troof.
 
2013-09-13 12:03:55 AM

bunner: jpo2269: Hey, I just read your last post and I have to protest; what do you have against Hot Pockets???

Not just hot pockets.  Pretty much anything that is a cheap and badly engineered knockoff of real food tends to contain very little food and even less useful engineering.  I'm sort of old school.  My food tends to be something made on a stove.  YOLO!  *snort*


Why do you hate science?!
 
2013-09-13 12:10:40 AM
bunner,

funny stuff..
 
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