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(Gawker)   Some billionaires, such as Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, have pledged to give away the vast majority of their fortunes to charity. Then there are the Waltons, who inherited their billions and are going to fight to keep every last dime   (gawker.com) divider line 474
    More: Interesting, Bill Gates, Sam Walton, Walton family, John D. Rockefeller, Gilded Age  
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18264 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Sep 2013 at 3:29 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-12 06:08:24 PM  

ZombieBear: It is interesting to note all the people defending the Walton's and other members of the ultra rich


The same people who defend the helpless rich also whine about the economy not recovering fast enough. Their argument relies on the perceived emotion of the less fortunate, not any economic or historical fact.
 
2013-09-12 06:08:33 PM  
This is one of the reasons I just bought a Costco card. They are not assholes and treat people with respect.
 
2013-09-12 06:10:20 PM  

nosferatublue: Aaaand you just showed all of us you know fark all about how IPOs - and dividends - and publicly traded companies - work. Nice and fast, too.


Oh!  I know!  I know!  They perpetuate the perceived value we assign to bank (debt) notes and allow them to be used to leverage actual wealth!
 
2013-09-12 06:10:57 PM  
I really wish I could find the link to the article showing the data on Walmart employees getting public assistance, because it would blow the minds off of a lot of the people in here who think that all Walmart does is get subsidized by the government.

In summary(from memory mind you), 5% are on public assistance at the start of their career. By the time they reach 6 months of employment, that number drops to 2%. After two years, that number drops to 1%.  Yes, they are the largest employer in the nation with people receiving public assistance. Employer number 2? The federal government.  I would actually like to see what the number is per capita for the employers. Please note, for all the BS those employees have to go through on a given day, I personally feel they deserve to be paid more.
 
2013-09-12 06:12:16 PM  
Bill gates has done a lot great things with his money through charity, and that's great. But it is not required and the sooner we stop thinking it is, the more time you can spend not hating rich people and starting to enjoy your  life.
 
2013-09-12 06:13:37 PM  

paygun: igh prices directly benefit Apple when they issue more stock.


That's "if' they issue more stock. Which is not a very likely if given how much cash on hand Apple has and accumulates.

Scoop84: I think you need to stop telling other people what has utility to them.


A big part of economics is measuring and comparing the utility of two different actions. Personal feelings about it need not enter into it.
 
2013-09-12 06:13:43 PM  

jayphat: After two years, that number drops to 1%.


If your job, in an era or 3.899 no-lead and 600.00 doctor visits needs two years to get you off the dole, your job sucks hippo piss out of a rancid sock.
 
2013-09-12 06:14:59 PM  
If they're not breaking any laws, why is this a story?
 
2013-09-12 06:15:18 PM  

WhyteRaven74: A big part of economics is measuring and comparing the utility of two different actions. Personal feelings about it need not enter into it.


And actual needs, motivations and driving forces of capital expenditures on the part of the annoying poors need not even be considered.  Hypotheses are law!
 
2013-09-12 06:15:18 PM  

WhyteRaven74: rjkline: earn more money

so how much of their billions did the Waltons earn by hard work?

paygun: It is, and the problem starts with the idea that the guy who made the 50 million on that sale, owns that money. It's a really hard thing to get around.

It's not about having a lot of money, it's about utility. Simply investing in stocks and bonds is from a macroeconomic view not the best utility.


You totally miss the point......SOMEONE earned the money and you have zero right to say that they cannot pass that money to their relatives. You will do the same thing one day but just on a smaller scale. People who are envious of others have no self respect. Why hate someone because they were lucky enough to be born into money? People who are envious of others are always the unhappiest people on earth.
 
2013-09-12 06:15:26 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Scoop84: People are still starting out with little and succeeding -- even going from nothing to the 1%.

Very few people. Which is kind of the point.

[mattbruenig.com image 549x400]

Link


8% of the top tier are living poverty as adults? Something must be done. Maybe a tax on malt liquor and cigarettes.
 
2013-09-12 06:16:20 PM  

Anayalator: 8% of the top tier are living poverty as adults? Something must be done. Maybe a tax on malt liquor and cigarettes.


Smart take.
 
2013-09-12 06:17:03 PM  

jayphat: I really wish I could find the link to the article showing the data on Walmart employees getting public assistance, because it would blow the minds off of a lot of the people in here who think that all Walmart does is get subsidized by the government.

In summary(from memory mind you), 5% are on public assistance at the start of their career. By the time they reach 6 months of employment, that number drops to 2%. After two years, that number drops to 1%.  Yes, they are the largest employer in the nation with people receiving public assistance. Employer number 2? The federal government.  I would actually like to see what the number is per capita for the employers. Please note, for all the BS those employees have to go through on a given day, I personally feel they deserve to be paid more.


Walmart has one of the highest turnover rates in the country.  So I'm going to guess that your numbers include management (which does not have that high turnover rate).  That means that lovely drop in public assistence is because most of the people don't make it past their first year and the ones that do are the assholes making the low level workers' lives miserable.
 
2013-09-12 06:19:16 PM  

patrick767: It didn't take long for the usual deluded douchebag to show up here and defend the plutocratic assholes who rule them.

cptrios
I'm a liberal. I despise the Waltons and everyone else in the "we're rich enough to live like kings for 1000 years, but we're still willing to make lots of other people's lives worse in order to push that to 1100" camp (the Kochs being the worst, followed by loads of others including, yes, the dreaded Soros). But actually  legislatingagainst that would be pretty much impossible. What are you going to do, make it illegal to have anything over a certain amount of money?

Seriously? You can't think of some ways to ease the obscene gap between the rich and poor in the US? Then why is it that we have the biggest wealth gap among modern nations?

Here are some tips:
Close the goddamn tax loopholes that the uber wealthy are forever abusing.
Raise the top tax rate or better yet add a new, higher tax rate for incomes over, say, a million bucks.
Tax capital gains the same as other income.
Raise the estate tax rate.
Stop passing legislation that weakens unions. What's needed is the exact opposite. 
Stop cutting social programs for poor people. Strengthen them.

That's off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more ways we could use legislation to decrease the disgraceful gap between rich and poor in the United States. Sadly and pathetically, the GOP has convinced millions of poor and middle class people to fight on behalf of the super wealthy.


*sigh*
1.)The god damn tax code needs completely wiped and started from scratch on a basic level. Period. The ominous "loopholes" mean nothing to some and everything to people who can't point the god damn things out.
2.) rates aren't the issue. Deductions are the issue. And there are so many its beyond stupid. Don't listen to the talking head politicians on this.
3.)Capital gains don't need taxed at the normal income rate. Capital gains need to be taxed at the income rate as the percentage they are of your income. If they are your sole source of income, then *voila* that is your income.
4.)This is a farking stupid point that serves no purpose other than to be a money grab for the government. You don't need more of someone elses money just because they are dead.
5.) Point to me a law that was passed that weakens unions.
6.)We aren't cutting social programs for the poor. There are more today than at any other point in history. What we need is some reform to some social programs so that the net worth to those using them can be increased. As an example, remove pop/soda/chips/candy from SNAP benefits. You have no idea how much money this minor reform will the system to be given back to those who need it.
 
2013-09-12 06:19:25 PM  

freak7: If they're not breaking any laws, why is this a story?


Because the Left isn't getting a big enough piece of the pie.  That's about it.
 
2013-09-12 06:21:50 PM  

jayphat: remove pop/soda/chips/candy from SNAP benefits


Lol...damn, even I think that sounds cruel. "Sorry kid, no ice cream for you....maybe your parents should have worked a little harder"
 
2013-09-12 06:24:22 PM  

nosferatublue: jayphat: remove pop/soda/chips/candy from SNAP benefits

Lol...damn, even I think that sounds cruel. "Sorry kid, no ice cream for you....maybe your parents should have worked a little harder"


I'd put a premium on junk food. People on SNAP LOAD their carts with garbage. My wife did that for a while until I dropped the ban hammer. I'm fat enough as it is without my diet being crap.
 
2013-09-12 06:25:27 PM  

OgreMagi: jayphat: I really wish I could find the link to the article showing the data on Walmart employees getting public assistance, because it would blow the minds off of a lot of the people in here who think that all Walmart does is get subsidized by the government.

In summary(from memory mind you), 5% are on public assistance at the start of their career. By the time they reach 6 months of employment, that number drops to 2%. After two years, that number drops to 1%.  Yes, they are the largest employer in the nation with people receiving public assistance. Employer number 2? The federal government.  I would actually like to see what the number is per capita for the employers. Please note, for all the BS those employees have to go through on a given day, I personally feel they deserve to be paid more.

Walmart has one of the highest turnover rates in the country.  So I'm going to guess that your numbers include management (which does not have that high turnover rate).  That means that lovely drop in public assistence is because most of the people don't make it past their first year and the ones that do are the assholes making the low level workers' lives miserable.


No, these numbers were specific to hourly employees. However, the longevity rate is something I agree with you on. I think i read that Walmarts turnover rate is 70% in the first year.
 
2013-09-12 06:26:25 PM  
Out come the SNAP scapegoats, the cause of all our economic problems, $130/month at a time.
 
2013-09-12 06:26:53 PM  

Fade2black: Because the Left isn't getting a big enough piece of the pie.  That's about it.


And who, precisely, is "the Left©", this week?  Isn't that code for people who don't have a lot of money?  People who vote for negroes?  People without ribbon magnets on their Japanese minivans?  Seriously.
 
2013-09-12 06:27:31 PM  

nosferatublue: jayphat: remove pop/soda/chips/candy from SNAP benefits

Lol...damn, even I think that sounds cruel. "Sorry kid, no ice cream for you....maybe your parents should have worked a little harder"


Work a retail job where they sell halloween candy on Novermber 1, you'll change your mind. People coming in LOADED with halloween candy in their arms paying with a SNAP card is disgusting.
 
2013-09-12 06:27:33 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?


That that much wealth concentrated in so few people hurts the nation as a whole.
 
2013-09-12 06:28:42 PM  
None of my dimes.

/ smug
 
2013-09-12 06:29:18 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Out come the SNAP scapegoats, the cause of all our economic problems, $130/month at a time.


"SNAP benefits are bankrupting us!"

"Don't you have like a tenth of a trillion dollars in the bank that you aren't putting back into the economy?"

"Yes and I earned it!  Selling Chinese crap to people on SNAP benefits and.. giving jobs to people on SNAP benefits that don't pay enough for them to become ineligible!"

"Ah."
 
2013-09-12 06:30:52 PM  

bunner: "SNAP benefits are bankrupting us!"

"Don't you have like a tenth of a trillion dollars in the bank that you aren't putting back into the economy?"

"Yes and I earned it!  Selling Chinese crap to people on SNAP benefits and.. giving jobs to people on SNAP benefits that don't pay enough for them to become ineligible!"

"Ah."


To paraphrase E.J. Dionne, modern conservatism relies on the theory that the rich will work harder if we give them more, while the poor will work harder if we give them less.
 
2013-09-12 06:31:30 PM  

nosferatublue: Dinki: nosferatublue: Start by imagining how well IPO's would go in a world where stock is not resold. Hint - they'd go crappy!

Really? Nobody would buy a stock in a company if they couldn't resell it? Here is a hint- the companies would have to -gasp- give out dividend payments instead! Unbelievable, I know!

Aaaand you just showed all of us you know fark all about how IPOs - and dividends - and publicly traded companies - work. Nice and fast, too.


Yes because my responding to one comment gives you all the insight you need to determine my level of knowledge about the stock market. You must be a financial genius! I bet you are a stock market wizard, always one two steps ahead of the pack.

BTW genius, how much money did you lose in the tech bubble collapse of 2000? In the housing/dirivitive collapse of 2007? The one thing I know about financial advisers and so-called stock market experts is they don't know jack shiat and they simply follow the herd.
 
2013-09-12 06:33:48 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: To paraphrase E.J. Dionne, modern conservatism relies on the theory that the rich will work harder if we give them more, while the poor will work harder if we give them less.


And so far, 50 percent of that theory is spot on.  Cause lving under freeways sort of puts a dent in your employability.  I.E: Serfdom or starvation.  Suck it, poors.  Cause that's how the captains of industry who are the pillars of of our national community roll, yo!
 
2013-09-12 06:35:33 PM  
"I have never understood why it isgreed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." - Thomas Sowell
 
2013-09-12 06:35:54 PM  

Dinki: The one thing I know about financial advisers and so-called stock market experts is they don't know jack shiat and they simply follow the herd.


That, and they're largely failed play by play announcers who say what the people - who have conned the middle class suckers into believing the NYSE bookie joint will somehow serve them, too - want them to say.
 
2013-09-12 06:36:47 PM  
I spend as little cash as possible at Walmart.
 
2013-09-12 06:38:38 PM  
Sam worked hard for their money. So they earned it too.
 
2013-09-12 06:39:34 PM  

St Andrew: "I have never understood why it isgreed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." - Thomas Sowell


Lemme hook you up, Tommy.  Earned is, for starters, a very nebulous notion these days.  Plus, wanting to take somebody else's money, in exchange for products and services of fair value, is called commerce.  When you want to take somebody else's money with a weapon or a fraud, that's called crime.  When you want to grab every nickel you can and stuff it up your ass and use it to create a feudal state, yeah, greed.  No charge.
 
2013-09-12 06:39:49 PM  
FlashHarry
well, that's their right, of course. just as it's my right not to shop at their shiatty stores.

Exactly. This is why, for example, the local Baron has the ius primae noctis to this day.
 
2013-09-12 06:45:15 PM  

Dinki: nosferatublue: Dinki: nosferatublue: Start by imagining how well IPO's would go in a world where stock is not resold. Hint - they'd go crappy!

Really? Nobody would buy a stock in a company if they couldn't resell it? Here is a hint- the companies would have to -gasp- give out dividend payments instead! Unbelievable, I know!

Aaaand you just showed all of us you know fark all about how IPOs - and dividends - and publicly traded companies - work. Nice and fast, too.

Yes because my responding to one comment gives you all the insight you need to determine my level of knowledge about the stock market. You must be a financial genius! I bet you are a stock market wizard, always one two steps ahead of the pack.

BTW genius, how much money did you lose in the tech bubble collapse of 2000? In the housing/dirivitive collapse of 2007? The one thing I know about financial advisers and so-called stock market experts is they don't know jack shiat and they simply follow the herd.


Translated, your comment said "Companies would be unable to raise money by selling shares to shareholders (that's what an IPO is). Therefore, they would have to dispense their extra funds to their existing shareholders (what a dividend is)."

This makes absolutely no sense. Companies don't pay dividends without cash and shareholders, both of which an IPO accrues. That's like saying "If my mom and dad can't sell their house to raise some cash soon, they'll have to give away all their extra money to the people who buy their house."

I'm not a trading wizard, but I do know some of the more basic definitions and concepts of trading, about which you appear pretty clueless.
 
2013-09-12 06:48:03 PM  

St Andrew: "I have never understood why it isgreed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." - Thomas Sowell


"I hate quotation. Tell me what you know." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
 
2013-09-12 06:48:30 PM  

jayphat: 3.)Capital gains don't need taxed at the normal income rate. Capital gains need to be taxed at the income rate as the percentage they are of your income. If they are your sole source of income, then *voila* that is your income


I think one simple change to our tax laws would fix the income tax and capital gains tax problems.  This:

"The income tax rate shall not be higher than the capital gains tax rate."

Remember, the rich don't really pay income tax.  Traditional income tends to be a tiny fraction of their money.  The fight over the income tax rate has always been a red herring.  It keeps the peasants occupied while the affluent continue to rake in the big capital gains bucks, completely unmolested by anything that happens in the income tax world.  My suggestion would change everything.  Want to increase the income tax?  First you have to increase the capital gains tax.  That means politicians are going to piss off their rich masters.  Boo hoo.

The flaw in my crazy scheme is one day we will wake up to a $5/gallon federal gasoline tax to make up for the lost revenue since there is no way in hell the rich bastards will let the government increase their capital gains tax.
 
2013-09-12 06:48:48 PM  

clancifer: Why should we penalize such successful people?  If you want the government to have its money, have it stop helping the indigent and poor and simply leave rich people to their earnings.

/tea party logic


Don't forget that Tea Party logic includes that: If those extremely successful people make a small mistake, it's the government's duty to intervene and make sure those companies stay successful. It's the "Right" thing to do!
 
2013-09-12 06:51:10 PM  

Dr Dreidel: There's also the problem that they, with their financial largesse, can affect what the actual tax laws are (while we can't to the same degree), making the idea that we're anything close to a level playing field ludicrous on its face


I guarantee you the whole "death tax" idea didn't come from a minimum wage worker.  It was cut from whole cloth and sold on FOX News and the Wall Street Journal.
 
2013-09-12 06:51:25 PM  

I thought the point of it being your money is that you can decide what to do with it.


Not everyone is a philanthropist just because they are rich.
 
2013-09-12 06:58:29 PM  
The Waltons did not create the tax code; they just live by it.  The USA allows rich people to buy laws to make money; the public accepts it, and pays higher taxes as a result.

They are not under any obligation to share with you, any more than Drew is obligated to share his beer collection, just because he has more than you.
 
2013-09-12 06:58:38 PM  

way south: I thought the point of it being your money is that you can decide what to do with it.
Not everyone is a philanthropist just because they are rich.


Well, yeah, you can decide what to do with it.  And we can decide what we think of you based on what you do with it.
 
2013-09-12 07:00:19 PM  

olddinosaur: The USA allows rich people to buy laws to make money; the public accepts it gets tear gassed if they complain too loudly.

 
2013-09-12 07:00:25 PM  
The 1% internet defense force is out in force in this thread. Note. You guys are on the same plane of morality as the royalists where during the revolutionary war. When the second revolution happens. And it will. You can't have those levels of inequality grow like this or there will be a blood bath (according to every history book ever).
 
2013-09-12 07:04:39 PM  

bunner: St Andrew: "I have never understood why it isgreed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." - Thomas Sowell

Lemme hook you up, Tommy.  Earned is, for starters, a very nebulous notion these days.  Plus, wanting to take somebody else's money, in exchange for products and services of fair value, is called commerce.  When you want to take somebody else's money with a weapon or a fraud, that's called crime.  When you want to grab every nickel you can and stuff it up your ass and use it to create a feudal state, yeah, greed.  No charge.



You are the dumbest human being I have ever had the honor of laughing at. Seriously, I would bet anything that you are stuck in a job that you feel superior to and that everyone around you is inferior. Your explanation of commerce and grabbing every nickel to create a feudal state is priceless. Seek some serious help because you need it. Not joking.
 
2013-09-12 07:06:00 PM  

Franco: The 1% internet defense force is out in force in this thread. Note. You guys are on the same plane of morality as the royalists where during the revolutionary war. When the second revolution happens. And it will. You can't have those levels of inequality grow like this or there will be a blood bath (according to every history book ever).


But.. we're exceptional!  It can't happen here!  The invisible hand of the market!  The eagle of freedom will forever soar!

Huh?

Who?

History on line one?

www.laputanlogic.com
 
2013-09-12 07:06:28 PM  

olddinosaur: The Waltons did not create the tax code; they just live by it.


Because the rich never hire lobbyists, or give massive campaign contributions to the people who make the rules.  Sure, they don't make the tax code, they just pay the people who do.
 
2013-09-12 07:06:45 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Out come the SNAP scapegoats, the cause of all our economic problems, $130/month at a time.


HeartBurnKid: St Andrew: "I have never understood why it isgreed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." - Thomas Sowell

"I hate quotation. Tell me what you know." - Ralph Waldo Emerson


Got burned, replied with snark.  Good jorb.
 
2013-09-12 07:10:18 PM  

rjkline: Not joking.


And therein lies your unintentional humor.  The balance of the post explains your reading comprehension level and need to call people you don't agree with names.  I, for one, am suitability impressed at the sheer volume of uninformed venom, herein.

Have a hot dog and a Coke™.

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

Hard work should be rewarded.
 
2013-09-12 07:12:28 PM  

Franco: The 1% internet defense force is out in force in this thread. Note. You guys are on the same plane of morality as the royalists where during the revolutionary war. When the second revolution happens. And it will. You can't have those levels of inequality grow like this or there will be a blood bath (according to every history book ever).


Oh please.  You know, there actually *are* people out there working hard to make a good living, right?  Those revolution types you speak of are Occupy folks, who do nothing while in those camps except yell out EVIL RICH and BUY ME A CAR, all the while the rest of society goes to their job, these people shiat in the streets and peddle for spare change so they can get high.

Then one day they approach the age of 30 and either tell themselves they need to get their shiat together and get a life, or they look at anyone else who didn't waste theirs, and decide they need to give more back so that they can continue shiatting the streets and getting high.

Good luck with your "revolution".
 
2013-09-12 07:13:52 PM  

Fade2black: these people shiat in the streets and peddle for spare change so they can get high.


But let's stop picking on the poor CEOs.
 
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