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(Gawker)   Some billionaires, such as Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, have pledged to give away the vast majority of their fortunes to charity. Then there are the Waltons, who inherited their billions and are going to fight to keep every last dime   ( gawker.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Bill Gates, Sam Walton, Walton family, John D. Rockefeller, Gilded Age  
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18301 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Sep 2013 at 3:29 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



474 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-09-12 12:29:21 PM  
well, that's their right, of course. just as it's my right not to shop at their shiatty stores.
 
2013-09-12 12:31:33 PM  

FlashHarry: well, that's their right, of course. just as it's my right not to shop at their shiatty stores.


Precisely.  Though I do take issue with them amassing such a fortune by keeping the people that work for them on wages too low to support them.  But yeah - I vote with my wallet.
 
2013-09-12 12:33:43 PM  
They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?
 
2013-09-12 12:33:55 PM  

FlashHarry: well, that's their right, of course. just as it's my right not to shop at their shiatty stores.


Exactly. You can biatch about this on facebook...or you can just not shop at WalMart.

My brother works for Wal Mart. Everything you've heard about their shady practices are true.
 
2013-09-12 01:09:13 PM  
something about rich men...and heaven....and camels and the eyes of needles....

wonder what the stats are of walmart shoppers claiming to be chrisitans
 
2013-09-12 01:11:31 PM  
That's pretty typical, in my experience.

Self-made millionaires and billionaires knew what it was like to be poor, middle-class, or even just slightly less rich.  It wasn't the end of the world.  They were happy.  So you have to get a Ferrari instead of a Bugatti.  BFD.

Rich kids who won the uterus lottery grow up so sheltered, they seem to think the real world is a coont hair away from Thunderdome.
 
2013-09-12 01:52:53 PM  
Why should we penalize such successful people?  If you want the government to have its money, have it stop helping the indigent and poor and simply leave rich people to their earnings.

/tea party logic
 
2013-09-12 02:04:43 PM  

Sgt Otter: That's pretty typical, in my experience.

Self-made millionaires and billionaires knew what it was like to be poor, middle-class, or even just slightly less rich.  It wasn't the end of the world.  They were happy.  So you have to get a Ferrari instead of a Bugatti.  BFD.

Rich kids who won the uterus lottery grow up so sheltered, they seem to think the real world is a coont hair away from Thunderdome.


Seems to me a pretty heavy indictment of Sam Walton - he raised a brood of assholes.
 
2013-09-12 02:15:20 PM  
Of course they are subby, they don't have that much to begin with...

static.guim.co.ukView Full Size
 
2013-09-12 02:15:45 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?


Maybe because that family has more sway over what tax law is than yours or mine.
 
2013-09-12 02:19:01 PM  

doyner: Maybe because that family has more sway over what tax law is than yours or mine.


I'm still trying to figure out what the gripe is in TFA.
 
2013-09-12 02:25:45 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: doyner: Maybe because that family has more sway over what tax law is than yours or mine.

I'm still trying to figure out what the gripe is in TFA.


I think it's pretty straightforward.  They're masters at legal tax evasion.
 
2013-09-12 02:28:43 PM  

doyner: I think it's pretty straightforward.


I don't think we read the same article.
 
2013-09-12 02:31:51 PM  
The House of Saud points and laughs.
 
2013-09-12 02:36:17 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: doyner: I think it's pretty straightforward.

I don't think we read the same article.


Apparently when the page loaded on your computer the link sent you to an American Potatoe diatribe instead.
 
2013-09-12 02:38:44 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?


You and I taking advantage of tax laws, with the few thousand we collectively pay in taxes every year is nothing compared to a single loophole exploited by the 8+-figure crowd.

There's also the problem that they, with their financial largesse, can affect what the actual tax laws are (while we can't to the same degree), making the idea that we're anything close to a level playing field ludicrous on its face.

There's "gaming the system", and there's "creating a system favorable to your games". We may do the former for the cost of maybe a few million total, nationwide, but the Waltons (and the millionaires in Congress) do the latter to the tune of tens (if not hundreds) of billions.
 
2013-09-12 02:43:57 PM  

doyner: Apparently when the page loaded on your computer the link sent you to an American Potatoe diatribe instead.


There's more truth to that than you intended.

On one hand Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are great people because they give a lot of money to charity. Oh and the Waltons do too...more than Buffet and almost as much as Gates (Wal Mart's charitable donations not included) but they get tax breaks. No mention of the possibility that Gates and Buffet might....juuuuuuuuuuust might realize some tax breaks as well.

Weapons grade potato(e).
 
2013-09-12 02:48:10 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: doyner: Apparently when the page loaded on your computer the link sent you to an American Potatoe diatribe instead.

There's more truth to that than you intended.

On one hand Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are great people because they give a lot of money to charity. Oh and the Waltons do too...more than Buffet and almost as much as Gates (Wal Mart's charitable donations not included) but they get tax breaks. No mention of the possibility that Gates and Buffet might....juuuuuuuuuuust might realize some tax breaks as well.

Weapons grade potato(e).


For the record, Buffet and Gates are just as much a part of the problem as the Waltons.  They're just less douchey about it these days.
 
2013-09-12 02:50:41 PM  

Dr Dreidel: There's "gaming the system", and there's "creating a system favorable to your games


Indeed.
 
2013-09-12 02:51:08 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Dr Dreidel: There's "gaming the system", and there's "creating a system favorable to your games

Indeed.


Your point?
 
2013-09-12 02:51:09 PM  

what_now: FlashHarry: well, that's their right, of course. just as it's my right not to shop at their shiatty stores.

Exactly. You can biatch about this on facebook...or you can just not shop at WalMart.

My brother works for Wal Mart. Everything you've heard about their shady practices are true.


They don't just low-ball their employees:  they routinely delay payments to their service contractors out
to the ragged edge of their payment windows, and that's after they 'negotiate' sweetheart deals that trade
heavily on the 'prestige' of allowing their contractors to say "Hey, we have WAL*MART as a client!" in
return for the lowest of rates.

Cheap bastards the lot of them.
 
2013-09-12 02:51:18 PM  

doyner: For the record, Buffet and Gates are just as much a part of the problem as the Waltons.


You wouldn't know it from reading this article.
 
wee
2013-09-12 03:07:48 PM  
Who farking cares?  It's their dimes...
 
2013-09-12 03:12:28 PM  

wee: Who farking cares?  It's their dimes...


I'll just leave this here for you.
 
2013-09-12 03:27:11 PM  
Conservatism is just what we call the political expression of the character flaw selfishness.
 
2013-09-12 03:33:11 PM  
48% isn't a vast majority, but it's still great to hear.

Now if only Bill Gates would stop obsessing about depopulation we wouldn't have to worry about nearly half of his fortune going towards that.
 
2013-09-12 03:34:14 PM  
old news is old
 
2013-09-12 03:36:33 PM  
Pay your employes so little that they need government assistance to survive.

Don't pay taxes.

Win.
 
2013-09-12 03:37:13 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?


taking advantage and lobby for changes to those laws = class warfare.
 
2013-09-12 03:39:55 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?


That they've spent millions to craft the tax law to their liking perhaps?  That they and a small group of ^) other families collectively gave themselves a $76 BILLION tax break when they pretty much out of whole cloth  created and funded the whole "repeal the Death Tax Movement"    or maybe its that right now  the top 10% take in 50% of the national income and own 90% of all the stock, the highest levels since they've been keeping records, and Utter bastards though they were, at least some of the last generation of Robber Barons like Getty, Rockefellar, and Carnegie has at least some understand of the concept of Noblisse Oblige.

As Robert Heinlien once wisely said: "While originally a French word, the French aristocrats at some point lost the concept of Noblesse Oblige while it remained strong among the English nobility.  This helps explain while the British nobility are still around while the French are not." (quoting form memory because I'm too lazy to google)
 
2013-09-12 03:40:37 PM  
That article was farking terrible. The point seems to be that the exceptionally wealthy have managed to "cheat" the system by crafting increasingly complicated shell games to hide their money and we should address this problem to make sure they're paying a reasonable share back into the system that they use to build and maintain that wealth. And it's right, of course.

But the Waltons are only a symptom of that problem and it's completely unjustifiable to go about attacking them directly in the way the writer did. They're an EXAMPLE of what's wrong with the system, they're not, in this instance, the actual problem.

Although, considering the source I guess it's about on par with my expectations.
 
2013-09-12 03:41:44 PM  
Cool stoy bro, but... how do they TASTE?

They have money, they keep money. By the time they die, they'll have even MOAR mountains of wealth. And then THEIR grandchildren will have moooore unfathomable mountains of cash.

And then the revolution will place their heads on pikes. :)

/ lol
 
2013-09-12 03:46:07 PM  

skozlaw: But the Waltons are only a symptom of that problem and it's completely unjustifiable to go about attacking them directly in the way the writer did. They're an EXAMPLE of what's wrong with the system, they're not, in this instance, the actual problem.


As people mentioned up thread they are lobbying to change tax law in their favor while paying their employees so little the rest of us subsidize their profits with social services to bring their employees up to a living wage. fark the waltons
 
2013-09-12 03:46:40 PM  
Lefty butthurt abounds.

Vote with your wallet if you don't like Walmart. Live your life and stop worrying about other people that don't give a shiat about you.
 
2013-09-12 03:47:28 PM  
So, this author of TFA is upset these people, who several of them worked side-by-side with their father to earn their money, is pissed they are trying to evade death taxes of their estates so that their children and not the government ends up with their money. Just wanted to check.

Not to defend the Waltons either, isn't their current worth almost entirely made up of the stock of Walmart?
 
2013-09-12 03:47:37 PM  
You put an extra eighth of an inch of pine tar on the bat; I paid the umpires to blow every close call in my favor.

We're both guilty!
 
2013-09-12 03:48:44 PM  

parasol: something about rich men...and heaven....and camels and the eyes of needles....

wonder what the stats are of walmart shoppers claiming to be chrisitans


I'm sure many of them are Christian, but you know what a hell of a lot of them are as well?  Poor.

So, I don't see the problem.  It's very possible to be forced to shop for your goods at the cheapest place in town and frown inside at the obvious un-Christian like behavior of the owners.

Not all of them are stupid hypocrites that relish the joys of having to buy their cheap shiat at Walmart.  Some of them probably hate it and wish that they had the disposable income to waste on more expensive stores, but that's just not possible.

What other options are there for the destitute?  Give them a break.
 
2013-09-12 03:48:46 PM  
I just want government to be so small we can drown the Waltons and anti-tax assholes in their f*cking bathtubs.
 
2013-09-12 03:49:08 PM  
I'm not one to condone violence....BUT

I would definitely be in the mob that tarred and feathered these jackasses.

/C'mon people, stop shopping at Wal-Mart
 
2013-09-12 03:49:36 PM  
The whole Wal Mart system, from it's disgustingly-greedy owners, to it's awful policies against a decent living wage, to the horrific abominations of nature who go there to shop, is proof without a doubt that there is no God.

A swirling vortex of avarice, cruelty, and inbred stupidity.
 
2013-09-12 03:49:44 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?


The Waltons: Just Like Us.

/I make $7.25/hour working from home! You guyz have to check this out www.walmart.com get paid to post about how awesome the Waltons are
 
2013-09-12 03:49:49 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: doyner: Apparently when the page loaded on your computer the link sent you to an American Potatoe diatribe instead.

There's more truth to that than you intended.

On one hand Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are great people because they give a lot of money to charity. Oh and the Waltons do too...more than Buffet and almost as much as Gates (Wal Mart's charitable donations not included) but they get tax breaks. No mention of the possibility that Gates and Buffet might....juuuuuuuuuuust might realize some tax breaks as well.

Weapons grade potato(e).


Well that's some fine intellectual dishonesty. Gates' and Buffett's heirs will receive a relative pittance. The current Waltons ARE the heirs. Ergo, had Mr. Walton done what Mr Gates and Buffett are doing, the current Waltons would not exist in their current format. How could you miss that simple fact?
 
2013-09-12 03:50:07 PM  

wee: Who farking cares?  It's their dimes...


Glad you are willing to pay more in taxes to make up for theirs.
Very patriotic of you, citizen.
 
2013-09-12 03:50:17 PM  

Tigger: Conservatism is just what we call the political expression of the character flaw selfishness.




Also known as one of the seven deadly sins: avarice. Not a Bible thumper by any stretch of the imagination, but the writers of those sins knew human nature.
 
2013-09-12 03:50:28 PM  
clancifer [TotalFark]
2013-09-12 01:52:53 PM
Why should we penalize such successful people? If you want the government to have its money, have it stop helping the indigent and poor and simply leave rich people to their earnings.
I R troll retard

/tea party logic
/Liberal talking point
 
2013-09-12 03:50:29 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?


That YOU seem to find nothing wrong with any of it.
 
2013-09-12 03:51:00 PM  
"Some billionaires, such as Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, have pledged to give away the vast majority of their fortunes to charity"

They can pledge to fly a unicorn over a rainbow to Jupiter and back,,,,it doesn't mean they are going to.
 
2013-09-12 03:51:12 PM  
Richest family in the world? That seems incorrect. Wouldn't the Saudi Royal family or the English Monarchy hold that title?
 
2013-09-12 03:51:49 PM  
I doubt theyre the richest family in the world, especially with the dollar as weak as it is.
 
2013-09-12 03:51:50 PM  
Just once I would like one of these billionaires to donate some money to my charity, the Shtetl G Foundation for the Advancement of the Procurement of Hookers and Blow.  But no,  those greedy farks want to keep their misbegotten cash.
 
2013-09-12 03:52:15 PM  

sweetmelissa31: Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?

The Waltons: Just Like Us.

/I make $7.25/hour working from home! You guyz have to check this out www.walmart.com get paid to post about how awesome the Waltons are


Don't laugh, corporations employ computer gerbils all the time to post obsequious lauding, obvious comments.
 
2013-09-12 03:52:47 PM  
I like where this thread is going!
 
2013-09-12 03:54:08 PM  

TV's Vinnie: A swirling vortex of avarice, cruelty, and inbred stupidity.


i.telegraph.co.ukView Full Size

You rang? Masters of the charitable lead trust.
 
2013-09-12 03:54:41 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: On one hand Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are great people because they give a lot of money to charity. Oh and the Waltons do too...more than Buffet and almost as much as Gates


How do they give more to charity than Buffet? It says the entire endowment of the Waltons' fund is $2.2B. Now, that's great for them, but the Gates Foundation is worth something like $30B and Buffet has pledged virtually his entire fortune to them.
 
2013-09-12 03:54:50 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?


Hey there is no need for logic in these threads, its a hate on wal mart thread.

They completely ignore that they have donated millions to schools in their home state and built one of the finest museums/art galleries not in a major city.

Morons get mad at them because they dont have white or rich guilt like the others who have gotten money, it amazes me to this day how the kennedy's are so revered yet people ignore how their father was such a scumbag and was the only reason why they were rich.
 
2013-09-12 03:55:39 PM  
Money was tight back in the and my Son needed some shoes.  I heard about Walmart practices so I went to a mom and pop shoe store in the area.  They had $38 shoes in his size - made in Tiawan.

Similar shoes made in China sold at Walmart for $15.

It was a tough choice........not really.
 
2013-09-12 03:55:57 PM  

ManRay: Lefty butthurt abounds.

Vote with your wallet if you don't like Walmart. Live your life and stop worrying about other people that don't give a shiat about you.


We're outnumbered by low-information consumers.
 
2013-09-12 03:56:51 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?


Not even counting for interest, it was that they can spend $1,000,000 a day for 273 years, and it's not enough for them.
 
2013-09-12 03:57:24 PM  
Good night, Mary Ellen.
 
2013-09-12 03:57:35 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?


that Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are philanthropists who do great things for humanity with their money while the Waltons want neo-slaves to labor for them so they can hoard their wealth and buy more political power?
 
2013-09-12 03:57:39 PM  

Uncle Pooky: Richest family in the world? That seems incorrect. Wouldn't the Saudi Royal family or the English Monarchy hold that title?


The English monarchy is fahkin NOTHING. They are, on a worldwide scale, relatively poor. I think I remember hearing they had a total of 85 mil. to the crown. If that. Very 'Meh" for a Regency.

The Saudi Family oil $ might be pretty astronomical though...
 
2013-09-12 03:58:05 PM  
Good night, John boy.
 
2013-09-12 03:58:38 PM  

EdNortonsTwin: "Some billionaires, such as Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, have pledged to give away the vast majority of their fortunes to charity"

They can pledge to fly a unicorn over a rainbow to Jupiter and back,,,,it doesn't mean they are going to.


Both are already giving away good portions of it.

The problem with the Waltons is not unusual, though, amongst people who inherit rather than create their fortune. They are born on third base and believe that they got there by hitting a triple (expression is not mine).
 
2013-09-12 03:59:27 PM  

slayer199: Of course they are subby, they don't have that much to begin with...

[static.guim.co.uk image 460x276]


They had enough money to send John Boy off to get a fancy college education. I say those Waltons have lived high on the hog long enough.
 
2013-09-12 04:00:02 PM  

stirfrybry: Good night, Mary Ellen.


stirfrybry: Good night, John boy.


Good night, chief.
 
2013-09-12 04:00:21 PM  
Someone sounds poor... and that someone would be me.

/not subby
 
2013-09-12 04:01:12 PM  

trickymoo: Uncle Pooky: Richest family in the world? That seems incorrect. Wouldn't the Saudi Royal family or the English Monarchy hold that title?

The English monarchy is fahkin NOTHING. They are, on a worldwide scale, relatively poor. I think I remember hearing they had a total of 85 mil. to the crown. If that. Very 'Meh" for a Regency.

The Saudi Family oil $ might be pretty astronomical though...


I think that's what alot of these people are missing too. The Waltons are rich in STOCK of Walmart. Just like the Saudi's in oil $. Your wallet determines the value of both.
 
2013-09-12 04:02:00 PM  
This is why estate taxes exist. We have agreed, as a society, that at least some of these huge piles of wealth should be put back into the public coffers when their rich owners die.

This is the dumbest line from the article, this tax does not affect the rich they just move their money where it is not subjected to this tax, this law affects the middle class to low income people the most when they have richer relatives die and have no clue how to handle money that would desperately help them pay off a lot of their bills. Our 2nd cousins had their uncle die after he had a ton of oil tapped on his property, after he died they had to sell off most of the property to pay off taxes due, they are still broke as shiat since after that all that was left was a few thousand per each family. If they could have kept most of it quite a few of their kids could have went to college but now they are stuck working shiat jobs that endanger their health and safety on a daily basis.

The estate tax law needs to be changed to allow poor or middle class to keep more, its a farking cash grab from the government and idiots act like this is a rich tax.
 
2013-09-12 04:02:19 PM  

ManRay: Live your life and stop worrying about other people that don't give a shiat about you

 are actively trying to create a new royal class in this country, screwing everyone else in the process.

FTFY, and GFY.
 
2013-09-12 04:03:45 PM  

Red Shirt Blues: TV's Vinnie: A swirling vortex of avarice, cruelty, and inbred stupidity.

[i.telegraph.co.uk image 460x287]
You rang? Masters of the charitable lead trust.


and yet he worked his whole life trying to get people health care.
while the Waltons work hard to deny people benefits.
 
2013-09-12 04:04:37 PM  

dukeblue219: It says the entire endowment of the Waltons' fund is $2.2B.


Those bastards!
 
2013-09-12 04:04:57 PM  

trickymoo: Uncle Pooky: Richest family in the world? That seems incorrect. Wouldn't the Saudi Royal family or the English Monarchy hold that title?

The English monarchy is fahkin NOTHING. They are, on a worldwide scale, relatively poor. I think I remember hearing they had a total of 85 mil. to the crown. If that. Very 'Meh" for a Regency.

The Saudi Family oil $ might be pretty astronomical though...


Thanks for inspiring me to Google it. FYI, according to multiple sources, you're a bit* off.

*several hundred million at best.
 
2013-09-12 04:05:17 PM  

what_now: My brother works for Wal Mart. Everything you've heard about their shady practices are true.


That sux.  Has he had any luck finding a better job?
 
2013-09-12 04:05:32 PM  

steamingpile: it amazes me to this day how the kennedy's are so revered yet people ignore how their father was such a scumbag and was the only reason why they were rich.


You revere the Kennedys about as much as I revere the Waltons. Heh, are you asking people to be nice to the Waltons but not the Kennedys?
 
2013-09-12 04:06:20 PM  
It's too bad that greed doesn't cause ass cancer.
 
2013-09-12 04:08:03 PM  

Sgt Otter: That's pretty typical, in my experience.

Self-made millionaires and billionaires knew what it was like to be poor, middle-class, or even just slightly less rich.  It wasn't the end of the world.  They were happy.  So you have to get a Ferrari instead of a Bugatti.  BFD.

Rich kids who won the uterus lottery grow up so sheltered, they seem to think the real world is a coont hair away from Thunderdome.


not exactly true.. Alice wasn't born rich.. she should know better but I think she may actually be the worst.
 
2013-09-12 04:08:06 PM  

doyner: Dancin_In_Anson: doyner: Apparently when the page loaded on your computer the link sent you to an American Potatoe diatribe instead.

There's more truth to that than you intended.

On one hand Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are great people because they give a lot of money to charity. Oh and the Waltons do too...more than Buffet and almost as much as Gates (Wal Mart's charitable donations not included) but they get tax breaks. No mention of the possibility that Gates and Buffet might....juuuuuuuuuuust might realize some tax breaks as well.

Weapons grade potato(e).

For the record, Buffet and Gates are just as much a part of the problem as the Waltons.  They're just less douchey about it these days.


They are bigger hypocrites than the Waltons. That is all. They pay millions to shelter billions from the government. Berkshire Hathaway has been in court for over a decade because Buffet doesn't want to pay his fair share of corporate taxes. Gates practically invented outsourcing.
 
2013-09-12 04:08:13 PM  

stirfrybry: Good night, John boy.


Dammit! Can't a guy masturbate in this house??!!
 
2013-09-12 04:08:30 PM  

steamingpile: The estate tax law needs to be changed to allow poor or middle class to keep more, its a farking cash grab from the government and idiots act like this is a rich tax.


From the IRS website: the applicable exclusion amount for 2013 is $5,250,000.

If you think the estate tax hits the poor or middle class, you're a tool of punditry.
 
2013-09-12 04:09:10 PM  

stonicus: Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?

Not even counting for interest, it was that they can spend $1,000,000 a day for 273 years, and it's not enough for them.


Whats your point? They earned it and can do what they want.

Personally I hate wal mart because they are responsible for driving down the quality of goods in stores now and blackmail companies to put their name on lower quality products or have their other products yanked off the shelves.
 
2013-09-12 04:10:52 PM  

Tigger: Conservatism is just what we call the political expression of the character flaw selfishness.


Hillary Clinton was on the board when they started their made in anywhere but America practices. It is no surprise that her husband would be the one to make China a permanent most favored trading nation, despite protests from both parties.  Their Walmart stock tingled with excitement at that.
 
2013-09-12 04:11:09 PM  

TV's Vinnie: The whole Wal Mart system, from it's disgustingly-greedy owners, to it's awful policies against a decent living wage, to the horrific abominations of nature who go there to shop, is proof without a doubt that there is no God.

A swirling vortex of avarice, cruelty, and inbred stupidity.


yet you forgot to mention the most 'used' people of all in the entire supply chain.. the actual slave laborers making the products in shiatty factories..
 
2013-09-12 04:11:12 PM  

FlashHarry: well, that's their right, of course. just as it's my right not to shop at their shiatty stores.

 
2013-09-12 04:13:54 PM  
Until you quit screwing around and finally pass a law making it illegal to be rich, this is going to continue to happen.
 
2013-09-12 04:14:29 PM  

PsyLord: Someone sounds poor... and that someone would be me.


That is subjective, to some I am poor to others we are rich even if I am trying to finish classes.

Headso: steamingpile: it amazes me to this day how the kennedy's are so revered yet people ignore how their father was such a scumbag and was the only reason why they were rich.

You revere the Kennedys about as much as I revere the Waltons. Heh, are you asking people to be nice to the Waltons but not the Kennedys?


One of those people sided with the Nazis and actively supported Sen McCarthy during his hearings and ruined people. One is a lot worse and neither is worthy of much respect but more seem to hold the kennedy's up when they are scumbags, which the diary is now revealing.

BKITU: From the IRS website: the applicable exclusion amount for 2013 is $5,250,000.


Link? If thats a cap then it must be new since the amount they lost was no where near that amount but I saw the accountants letters and bills from the tax.
 
2013-09-12 04:17:23 PM  
YA know what's funny? For the past two weeks we have been undergoing out yearly SQF audit by Wal Mart AND Target. Yes. They both use the same auditing firm. Part of this audit involves Ethical Sourcing where by they go over all our policies and practices to insure that all of our hiring practices, benefit practices and so on are done ethically. When the auditor was sitting here going over my part of this yesterday, he asked if we actively inform the employees of their right to join a union. I wanted to say 'fark no, do we look stupid?' But I was cool about it and said, 'No, but it is posted with the mandatory Labor Law posters'.
 
2013-09-12 04:18:12 PM  
Why would you expect anything different? They have crappy products in their stores, horrible employment practices, and are unrepentant about both. Why would you expect them to act like anything other than the white trash nouveau riche assholes that they are....
 
2013-09-12 04:18:48 PM  

steamingpile: neither is worthy of much respect


It was hard to tell that from your initial post when you were telling everyone about their donations and museum.
 
2013-09-12 04:19:20 PM  
steamingpile:

BKITU: From the IRS website: the applicable exclusion amount for 2013 is $5,250,000.

Link? If thats a cap then it must be new since the amount they lost was no where near that amount but I saw the accountants letters and bills from the tax.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States

The deduction was a million bucks a decade ago and has gotten bigger almost every year. It was jacked up to $5 million in 2010.

Maybe they were scammed by their accountant/lawyer.
 
2013-09-12 04:19:45 PM  
Non of my business.  Non of yours either, subby.

If they're doing something illegal, let us know.

Otherwise, MYOB and GBTW.  Earn your own billions and donate them as you see fit.
 
2013-09-12 04:20:01 PM  
The 'super rich' aren't harmed by the estate tax.  It keeps the lesser families from joining them without windfall.
 
2013-09-12 04:20:44 PM  

7th Son of a 7th Son: stirfrybry: Good night, John boy.

Dammit! Can't a guy masturbate in this house??!!


Ceiling Myrtle is watching you.
 
2013-09-12 04:22:04 PM  

Nemo's Brother: They are bigger hypocrites than the Waltons. That is all. They pay millions to shelter billions from the government. Berkshire Hathaway has been in court for over a decade because Buffet doesn't want to pay his fair share of corporate taxes. Gates practically invented outsourcing.


STOP THAT NOW! This is Fark for God's sake! We will NOT tolerate facts!
 
2013-09-12 04:23:16 PM  

steamingpile: Whats your point? They earned it and can do what they want.


They inherited it. Big difference.
 
2013-09-12 04:24:42 PM  

doyner: Dancin_In_Anson: doyner: Maybe because that family has more sway over what tax law is than yours or mine.

I'm still trying to figure out what the gripe is in TFA.

I think it's pretty straightforward.  They're masters at legal tax evasion.


As voted for by members of Congress who write the tax laws. Harry Reid and Nacey Pelosi are as much if not more ethicly challenged than the Walton's,  That's Their own money, Reid and Pelosi use YOUR money to cheat the system.
 
2013-09-12 04:26:04 PM  

Headso: steamingpile: it amazes me to this day how the kennedy's are so revered yet people ignore how their father was such a scumbag and was the only reason why they were rich.

You revere the Kennedys about as much as I revere the Waltons. Heh, are you asking people to be nice to the Waltons but not the Kennedys?


Hey, the call girl industry in this country is thriving thanks to the philanthropy of the Kennedys.
 
2013-09-12 04:26:07 PM  
What's this?  Another thread full of liberals whining about other people having things, and mistakenly believing that the fact that others have things somehow prevents they themselves from having things?  Carry on.
 
2013-09-12 04:26:10 PM  

Headso: steamingpile: neither is worthy of much respect

It was hard to tell that from your initial post when you were telling everyone about their donations and museum.


I giver her slight credit for that but its minimal at best, Joe Kennedy deserves no respect. Most extremely wealthy people gave away millions as they aged, Carnegie built numerous libraries around the country, it is sad looking at old pictures of the one the city of atlanta tore down for a shiattier steel and glass building.

Target Builder: steamingpile:

BKITU: From the IRS website: the applicable exclusion amount for 2013 is $5,250,000.

Link? If thats a cap then it must be new since the amount they lost was no where near that amount but I saw the accountants letters and bills from the tax.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States

The deduction was a million bucks a decade ago and has gotten bigger almost every year. It was jacked up to $5 million in 2010.

Maybe they were scammed by their accountant/lawyer.


Oh well this was years ago, I dont think it was before 2001 but its been a long time I know that.
 
2013-09-12 04:26:35 PM  

BigGrnEggGriller: Non of my business.  Non of yours either, subby.


It's only none of your business if you don't pay any taxes, if you pay taxes you are subsidizing the Walton family fortune and it is your business.
 
2013-09-12 04:27:02 PM  

ManRay: Lefty butthurt abounds.

Vote with your wallet if you don't like Walmart. Live your life and stop worrying about other people that don't give a shiat about you.


As a Christian I care about people. I don't want someone to work and still not be able to afford shelter, food, healthcare. I am a "lefty" because I believe Christians should act and think and love more like Christ did and not like the Devil. You can always tell if someone is a true follower of Christ by their love for their fellow man. Rest assured the people on the right who claim to be Christians but hate the sick, the poor and those they deem unworthy will hear God say that He never knew them. So keep on with that "lefty" crap and your greed at the expense of others. You will impress your money worshiping, fake Christian friends but you will lose your soul.
 
2013-09-12 04:27:23 PM  

paygun: Until you quit screwing around and finally pass a law making it illegal to be rich, this is going to continue to happen.


Even that's been done. It still continued to happen. They called each other "comrade."
 
2013-09-12 04:27:38 PM  
Well. Since money has been ruled "political speech", it shows that 4 people have more "speech" than 120 million.
 
2013-09-12 04:28:09 PM  

steamingpile: stonicus: Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?

Not even counting for interest, it was that they can spend $1,000,000 a day for 273 years, and it's not enough for them.

Whats your point? They earned it and can do what they want.

Personally I hate wal mart because they are responsible for driving down the quality of goods in stores now and blackmail companies to put their name on lower quality products or have their other products yanked off the shelves.


No point, just answering a question with my own interpretation.

Also, how does inheriting something equal earning it?
 
2013-09-12 04:28:20 PM  
Bill Gates and Warren Buffet aren't giving away shiat, it's a tax scam.
 
2013-09-12 04:28:22 PM  

Inchoate: steamingpile: Whats your point? They earned it and can do what they want.

They inherited it. Big difference.


Actually they didnt, their father forced them to work for a living, its not like they turned 18 and were millionaires, read the history of each kid and he made all of them either finish school or start at the bottom.

MBooda: Hey, the call girl industry in this country is thriving thanks to the philanthropy of the Kennedys.


Good point, as well as the killing call girls industry.
 
2013-09-12 04:28:45 PM  
More butthurt about the wealthy, gotta love the internet.

The article mentions wealthy people giving money to charity and then goes on to compare how the Waltons use tax laws (yes, they are laws, not "loopholes") to avoid paying any more taxes than they have to. Charity / taxes. Two completely different things.

Stupid article is stupid.
 
2013-09-12 04:30:07 PM  

Phineas: What's this?  Another thread full of liberals whining about other people having things, and mistakenly believing that the fact that others have things somehow prevents they themselves from having things?  Carry on.


It's not really a liberal thing as much as a global economics thing. There's only so much wealth in the world, and the people hoarding trillions actually are preventing others from having it.
 
2013-09-12 04:30:53 PM  

Mija: ManRay: Lefty butthurt abounds.

Vote with your wallet if you don't like Walmart. Live your life and stop worrying about other people that don't give a shiat about you.

As a Christian I care about people. I don't want someone to work and still not be able to afford shelter, food, healthcare. I am a "lefty" because I believe Christians should act and think and love more like Christ did and not like the Devil. You can always tell if someone is a true follower of Christ by their love for their fellow man. Rest assured the people on the right who claim to be Christians but hate the sick, the poor and those they deem unworthy will hear God say that He never knew them. So keep on with that "lefty" crap and your greed at the expense of others. You will impress your money worshiping, fake Christian friends but you will lose your soul.


Exactly. Lefties seem to be reading from a gospel where Christ said "Lo, petition Rome to compel thy rich neighbors to give of theirs to help the poor. That counts for thine share, too"

Lefties pass laws to try to compel people to act Christian economically - Righties socially. Neither counts for much.
 
2013-09-12 04:31:05 PM  

stonicus: Also, how does inheriting something equal earning it?


It doesn't.  But it doesn't equal stealing it, either.
 
2013-09-12 04:32:00 PM  
Noblesse oblige is a good concept.

You can work hard, and work honestly, and earn a living - or a fortune. There is nothing dishonorable about that. Feel proud of your effort and its fruits.

But the playing field isn't level, the market isn't free, and everyone is interconnected. There is always an element of luck, however small, to success. The grander your successes and the greater your pile of cash, the more people you are likely to have stepped on to get there - consciously or not.

Acknowledging this, and acting to soften those footfalls, are the responsible things to do, whether you make $40k a year or $40 million.
 
2013-09-12 04:32:09 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: Phineas: What's this?  Another thread full of liberals whining about other people having things, and mistakenly believing that the fact that others have things somehow prevents they themselves from having things?  Carry on.

It's not really a liberal thing as much as a global economics thing. There's only so much wealth in the world, and the people hoarding trillions actually are preventing others from having it.


Because they bury it under a rock and leave it to rot, right?

What do you think all this money is doing, pray tell?
 
2013-09-12 04:32:12 PM  

stonicus: Also, how does inheriting something equal earning it?


That didnt happen, they arent saints but they did have to work for their cash.
 
2013-09-12 04:32:36 PM  
I marvel at how entitled some people think they are to other people's stuff.
 
2013-09-12 04:32:48 PM  
"...For to whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luk 12:48
 
2013-09-12 04:34:07 PM  

nosferatublue: What do you think all this money is doing, pray tell?


I'll tell you what it's not doing.... It's certainly not paying their employees a living wage so the rest of the tax payers don't have to pick up their slack.
 
2013-09-12 04:34:12 PM  
how can you not admire them, especially the old hag.

if you got pulled over for DUI  you just tell the arresting officer

 'I'm Alice Walton, biatch!'

 that officer was later suspended for alleged misconduct and was put on paid leave and so was not available to testify.


He was lucky.  He was not fired like the city of medina cop who got the axe a few months after writing bill gates a ticket for "failure to provide proof of financial responsibility"
 
2013-09-12 04:34:27 PM  

Phineas: What's this?  Another thread full of liberals whining about other people having things, and mistakenly believing that the fact that others have things somehow prevents they themselves from having things?  Carry on.


I love the part when they start going "But, but, but, Jeebus".  It's the one topic where lefties fall back on religion.
 
2013-09-12 04:35:03 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: Phineas:

<stupidity deleted>

It's not really a liberal thing as much as a global economics thing. There's only so much wealth in the world, and the people hoarding trillions actually are preventing others from having it.

Do you really think a semi-literate Republitroll cares about facts?
 
2013-09-12 04:35:05 PM  

nosferatublue: What do you think all this money is doing, pray tell?


not helping the US economy very much.

BigGrnEggGriller: I marvel at how entitled some people think they are to other people's stuff.


Given we're talking about people who won the birth lottery and inherited what they have, they didn't go earn it like their dad did, that statement achieves near cosmic levels of irony.
 
2013-09-12 04:35:10 PM  
blogs-images.forbes.comView Full Size


also gave very little if anything to charity, but it's okay because he made over-priced shiny crap that was made in Chinese sweat shops rather than cheap crap made in Chinese sweat shops.
 
2013-09-12 04:35:32 PM  

steamingpile: BKITU: From the IRS website: the applicable exclusion amount for 2013 is $5,250,000.

Link? If thats a cap then it must be new since the amount they lost was no where near that amount but I saw the accountants letters and bills from the tax.


Wikipedia linked upthread, IRS link here if you're more interested in direct sources.

"Estates of decedents who die during 2013 have a basic exclusion amount of $5,250,000, up from a total of $5,120,000 for estates of decedents who died in 2012. "

Under current law, the exemption is also adjusted to inflation every year. It started at $5 million for 2011.
 
2013-09-12 04:37:17 PM  

anfrind: J. Frank Parnell: Phineas: <stupidity deleted>

It's not really a liberal thing as much as a global economics thing. There's only so much wealth in the world, and the people hoarding trillions actually are preventing others from having it.

Do you really think a semi-literate Republitroll cares about facts?


The world economy is not a zero-sum game.
 
2013-09-12 04:37:18 PM  

JNowe: I love the part when they start going "But, but, but, Jeebus". It's the one topic where lefties fall back on religion.


Given how many people talk about being Christians and then defend greed, how else should one argue?
 
2013-09-12 04:37:52 PM  

Via Infinito: wee: Who farking cares?  It's their dimes...

I'll just leave this here for you.


You lost me with Robert Reich. If he was running an investment firm his speech to potential investors would be that they'll be losing money within the year and broke in less than 10 if they invest with his firm, and it'd be just, fair and part of the natural order.
 
2013-09-12 04:37:52 PM  

steamingpile: MBooda: Hey, the call girl industry in this country is thriving thanks to the philanthropy of the Kennedys.

Good point, as well as the killing call girls industry.


Hrm, call it a Supply/Demand adjustment.
 
2013-09-12 04:37:59 PM  

ManRay: Lefty butthurt abounds. Live your life and stop worrying about other people that don't give a shiat about you.


which is why i support gay marriage and a woman's right to choose, just like the GOP!
 
2013-09-12 04:38:30 PM  

Headso: nosferatublue: What do you think all this money is doing, pray tell?

I'll tell you what it's not doing.... It's certainly not paying their employees a living wage so the rest of the tax payers don't have to pick up their slack.


Where would they be working if Wal-Mart didn't exist?  Instead of picking up the slack, would we be picking up even more?
 
2013-09-12 04:38:32 PM  

nosferatublue: Because they bury it under a rock and leave it to rot, right?


If by that you mean offshore accounts and it being held up in extensive and opulent property they own, then yes.

What do you think all this money is doing, pray tell?

Let me guess, you think every cent goes towards creating jobs for an ungrateful public. Carrying the world on the backs. Oh, those noble rich people. We should thank them for being rich, really. It's such a terrible burden.
 
2013-09-12 04:39:22 PM  

pedobearapproved: If he was running an investment firm his speech to potential investors would be that they'll be losing money within the year and broke in less than 10 if they invest with his firm, and it'd be just, fair and part of the natural order.


There are people who think just like Reich does who make ass loads of money. Interestingly, they manage to do it without backing anything contrary to their own views.
 
2013-09-12 04:39:45 PM  

WhyteRaven74: nosferatublue: What do you think all this money is doing, pray tell?

not helping the US economy very much.



Interesting. You say this based on...? Do you have any idea what kind of portfolio the family is invested in - domestic stocks, venture capital, municipal bonds, foreign stocks, etc? Any idea what they spend it on, and where?

Or are you just blowing smoke out of your behind?
 
2013-09-12 04:40:13 PM  

ManRay: Vote with your wallet if you don't like Walmart.


Problem is, in some smaller towns you don't have a choice unless you drive for 20+ miles one way.
 
2013-09-12 04:41:01 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: FlashHarry: well, that's their right, of course. just as it's my right not to shop at their shiatty stores.

Precisely.  Though I do take issue with them amassing such a fortune by keeping the people that work for them on wages too low to support them.  But yeah - I vote with my wallet.


They probably won't notice since only one member actually sits on the board somewhere buried deep for Wal-mart.  As far as I know anyway.

The 65 year old daughter who gets ticketed with drunk driving and occasionally sleeps it off in jail may still be young enough to not be retired from being asked if she's going to do something about it. who knows.
 
2013-09-12 04:41:04 PM  

Scoop84: Headso: nosferatublue: What do you think all this money is doing, pray tell?

I'll tell you what it's not doing.... It's certainly not paying their employees a living wage so the rest of the tax payers don't have to pick up their slack.

Where would they be working if Wal-Mart didn't exist?  Instead of picking up the slack, would we be picking up even more?


Wal-mart can exist and still pay their employees better, if 1 family can have 100 billion dollars off the backs of these workers it's obvious.
 
2013-09-12 04:41:06 PM  

BKITU: steamingpile: BKITU: From the IRS website: the applicable exclusion amount for 2013 is $5,250,000.

Link? If thats a cap then it must be new since the amount they lost was no where near that amount but I saw the accountants letters and bills from the tax.

Wikipedia linked upthread, IRS link here if you're more interested in direct sources.

"Estates of decedents who die during 2013 have a basic exclusion amount of $5,250,000, up from a total of $5,120,000 for estates of decedents who died in 2012. "

Under current law, the exemption is also adjusted to inflation every year. It started at $5 million for 2011.


IRS page on Estate Tax
 
2013-09-12 04:41:14 PM  

Scoop84: Where would they be working if Wal-Mart didn't exist? Instead of picking up the slack, would we be picking up even more?


so you're saying that if walmart paid its employees well it wouldn't exist?
 
2013-09-12 04:41:18 PM  

DeathByGeekSquad: The 'super rich' aren't harmed by the estate tax.  It keeps the lesser families from joining them without windfall.


Then why is it that many of the super rich are at the vanguard of movements to eliminate estate taxes? If it's no big deal to them, you'd expect more indifference.
 
2013-09-12 04:41:33 PM  

baka-san: ManRay: Vote with your wallet if you don't like Walmart.

Problem is, in some smaller towns you don't have a choice unless you drive for 20+ miles one way.


Acts of conscience aren't always convenient.
 
2013-09-12 04:42:05 PM  

The_Original_Roxtar: [blogs-images.forbes.com image 620x434]

also gave very little if anything to charity, but it's okay because he made over-priced shiny crap that was made in Chinese sweat shops rather than cheap crap made in Chinese sweat shops.


What's your point? You're typing on a computer that was made in a Chinese sweatshop too.
 
2013-09-12 04:42:27 PM  
Intergenerational wealth is aristocracy, plain and simple. You die, your spouse dies and your kids are 21+, it should go away. No family trusts. No estate planning. No "heirs." And no passing on wealth to children before one dies. You earn it, you enjoy the fruits of your labor. Live it up. But it ends there.

This country has never lived up to its vision and has rarely tried.
 
2013-09-12 04:42:41 PM  

ManRay: Lefty butthurt abounds.

Vote with your wallet if you don't like Walmart. Live your life and stop worrying about other people that don't give a shiat about you.


Good advice. (Seriously.) But while I'm out there voting with my wallet, I'll also be voting for people who'll raise taxes on the Waltons.

And myself. And people who make slightly less than me, and everyone in between. Possibly including you.

That's right. I'm coming for your money and I'm going to spend it on people who need it more than you do, like some kind of soshalest monster. Well, actually, I'm just going to spend it on people in general, but I don't really expect you to see it that way, or to like it one bit.

And if I ever succeed, thanks in advance for keeping your butthurt about how overtaxed you are to yourself. ;)
 
2013-09-12 04:42:50 PM  

baka-san: Problem is, in some smaller towns you don't have a choice unless you drive for 20+ miles one way.


Just how important it is to you determines (literally) how far you are willing to go to make a point.
 
GBB
2013-09-12 04:42:52 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?



"Take advantage of", or "create"?
Because I'm under the assumption that people with that much money and that much at stake have a hand at crafting such laws; not sit idly by hoping that the IRS doesn't suddenly go to 95% tax rates on income over $10M.
 
2013-09-12 04:42:55 PM  

JNowe: Phineas: What's this?  Another thread full of liberals whining about other people having things, and mistakenly believing that the fact that others have things somehow prevents they themselves from having things?  Carry on.

I love the part when they start going "But, but, but, Jeebus".  It's the one topic where lefties fall back on religion.


If "Prosperity gospel" idiots like you actually read your Bibles, you'd realize that the ideals you promote are pure heresy.

See you in Hell.
 
2013-09-12 04:43:42 PM  
Can we please raise the capital gains tax? Why should money made by having money be taxed less then money earned by hard work and labor? I mean if anything it should be taxed at a higher rate.
 
2013-09-12 04:44:08 PM  

WhyteRaven74: JNowe: I love the part when they start going "But, but, but, Jeebus". It's the one topic where lefties fall back on religion.

Given how many people talk about being Christians and then defend greed, how else should one argue?


Argue however you want.  Just understand that those arguments mean fark-all to a non-Christian, just as the conservatives appeals to religion do.
 
2013-09-12 04:44:49 PM  

JNowe: Phineas: What's this?  Another thread full of liberals whining about other people having things, and mistakenly believing that the fact that others have things somehow prevents they themselves from having things?  Carry on.

I love the part when they start going "But, but, but, Jeebus".  It's the one topic where lefties fall back on religion.


One single person in the thread brought up their religion. Is this some curious example of the singular "they", or are you just trying to score rhetorical points under the assumption that other people in the thread aren't capable of counting?
 
2013-09-12 04:44:52 PM  

Scoop84: stonicus: Also, how does inheriting something equal earning it?

It doesn't.  But it doesn't equal stealing it, either.


Correct!
 
2013-09-12 04:45:29 PM  
It was not too long ago that Bill Gates was the Rich Devil Boogeyman. He seems to have turned things around. If the Waltons somehow do the same, who is next in line for the position? I want to get in on the ground floor this time.
 
2013-09-12 04:45:29 PM  

Headso: Scoop84: Headso: nosferatublue: What do you think all this money is doing, pray tell?

I'll tell you what it's not doing.... It's certainly not paying their employees a living wage so the rest of the tax payers don't have to pick up their slack.

Where would they be working if Wal-Mart didn't exist?  Instead of picking up the slack, would we be picking up even more?

Wal-mart can exist and still pay their employees better, if 1 family can have 100 billion dollars off the backs of these workers it's obvious.



WhyteRaven74: Scoop84: Where would they be working if Wal-Mart didn't exist? Instead of picking up the slack, would we be picking up even more?

so you're saying that if walmart paid its employees well it wouldn't exist?



Don't know.  But that ain't going to happen in our lifetimes.  I just wonder if we (the taxpayers) are better off having these folks earn Wal-Mart wages than nothing.
 
2013-09-12 04:45:52 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: JNowe: Phineas: What's this?  Another thread full of liberals whining about other people having things, and mistakenly believing that the fact that others have things somehow prevents they themselves from having things?  Carry on.

I love the part when they start going "But, but, but, Jeebus".  It's the one topic where lefties fall back on religion.

One single person in the thread brought up their religion. Is this some curious example of the singular "they", or are you just trying to score rhetorical points under the assumption that other people in the thread aren't capable of counting?


Yes, quite right, this is the first thread in which that has ever happened.  Carry on.
 
2013-09-12 04:45:53 PM  

nosferatublue: Exactly. Lefties seem to be reading from a gospel where Christ said "Lo, petition Rome to compel thy rich neighbors to give of theirs to help the poor. That counts for thine share, too"


He did, though, say "Render unto ceaser's what is ceasers", and LITERALLY SAID "You cannot worship both god and money" ('cause he was speaking to jews, and the jews ALREADY weren't supposed to be worshiping *the actual deity* Mammon.)
 
2013-09-12 04:45:57 PM  

Headso: steamingpile: it amazes me to this day how the kennedy's are so revered yet people ignore how their father was such a scumbag and was the only reason why they were rich.

You revere the Kennedys about as much as I revere the Waltons. Heh, are you asking people to be nice to the Waltons but not the Kennedys?


Why can't we hate both? Fark the Kennedys too
 
2013-09-12 04:46:53 PM  

pedobearapproved: You lost me with Robert Reich.


The Sec of Labor who oversaw the creation of 23 million jobs, a median household income increase of 14%, 8 million people lifted out of poverty, and the longest sustained period of economic growth in American history.

Yeah, what does he know about the economy.
 
2013-09-12 04:47:53 PM  

The_Original_Roxtar: [blogs-images.forbes.com image 620x434]

also gave very little if anything to charity, but it's okay because he made over-priced shiny crap that was made in Chinese sweat shops rather than cheap crap made in Chinese sweat shops.


And let's not forget, his wife, who had nothing to do with Apple, inherit---, I mean earned, 9 billion dollars worth of wealth and influence after he died.
 
2013-09-12 04:48:01 PM  

Felgraf: nosferatublue: Exactly. Lefties seem to be reading from a gospel where Christ said "Lo, petition Rome to compel thy rich neighbors to give of theirs to help the poor. That counts for thine share, too"

He did, though, say "Render unto ceaser's what is ceasers", and LITERALLY SAID "You cannot worship both god and money" ('cause he was speaking to jews, and the jews ALREADY weren't supposed to be worshiping *the actual deity* Mammon.)


Verily.
 
2013-09-12 04:48:31 PM  

BKITU: steamingpile: The estate tax law needs to be changed to allow poor or middle class to keep more, its a farking cash grab from the government and idiots act like this is a rich tax.

From the IRS website: the applicable exclusion amount for 2013 is $5,250,000.

If you think the estate tax hits the poor or middle class, you're a tool of punditry.


And the rancher who is sitting on millions in land, but doesn't make much money a year, can't pass it on to their kids, because the IRS will simply take the land. nice. No choice but to sell it off.
 
2013-09-12 04:48:49 PM  

keepitcherry: The_Original_Roxtar: [blogs-images.forbes.com image 620x434]

also gave very little if anything to charity, but it's okay because he made over-priced shiny crap that was made in Chinese sweat shops rather than cheap crap made in Chinese sweat shops.

What's your point? You're typing on a computer that was made in a Chinese sweatshop too.


my point is that many of the people vilifying the waltons canonize jobs
 
2013-09-12 04:49:00 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: pedobearapproved: You lost me with Robert Reich.

The Sec of Labor who oversaw the creation of 23 million jobs, a median household income increase of 14%, 8 million people lifted out of poverty, and the longest sustained period of economic growth in American history.

Yeah, what does he know about the economy.


Plus, he was the mayor of Munchkinland.
 
2013-09-12 04:49:31 PM  

baka-san: ManRay: Vote with your wallet if you don't like Walmart.

Problem is, in some smaller towns you don't have a choice unless you drive for 20+ miles one way.


Why it's the Model T Ford made the trouble, made the people wanna go, wanna get, wanna get, wanna get up and go, seven, eight, nine, ten, twelve, fourteen, twenty-two, twenty three miles to the county seat. Yes sir, yes sir, who's gonna patronize a little bitty two-by-four kinda store anymore?
 
2013-09-12 04:50:25 PM  
Its somewhat funny but mostly sad... The amount of OWS-type idiots who believe rich people are preventing others from having things.  Spend less time gobbling up whatever Obama and the rest of the Democrat party are ejaculating, and more time focusing on improving your own quality of life, and youll be far happier.
 
2013-09-12 04:50:40 PM  

what_now: Exactly. You can biatch about this on facebook...or you can just not shop at WalMart.


I'll do both, thanks.
 
2013-09-12 04:50:43 PM  

WhyteRaven74: JNowe: I love the part when they start going "But, but, but, Jeebus". It's the one topic where lefties fall back on religion.

Given how many people talk about being Christians and then defend greed, how else should one argue?


They defend freedom. I don't see anyone defending greed. I think the family should give their money away, too, I'm just not going to make them.
 
2013-09-12 04:51:22 PM  

EdNortonsTwin: Money was tight back in the and my Son needed some shoes.  I heard about Walmart practices so I went to a mom and pop shoe store in the area.  They had $38 shoes in his size - made in Tiawan.

Similar shoes made in China sold at Walmart for $15.

It was a tough choice........not really.


THIS.

As much as I try to avoid Walmart, the work pants I'm wearing are $18 there and $26 everywhere else. I can't afford NOT to shop there for my high-wear items.

// also, I'm underpaid.
/// says the guy Farking at work.
 
2013-09-12 04:51:50 PM  

BolloxReader: Intergenerational wealth is aristocracy, plain and simple. You die, your spouse dies and your kids are 21+, it should go away. No family trusts. No estate planning. No "heirs." And no passing on wealth to children before one dies. You earn it, you enjoy the fruits of your labor. Live it up. But it ends there.

This country has never lived up to its vision and has rarely tried.


just a hunch, you have no kids and either no job or work at walmart
 
2013-09-12 04:52:05 PM  
Anyone who makes snide remarks about Wal-Mart also tends to:

1. Own a TV but haven't turned it on in years
2. Drink microbrewery beer
3. Watch Japanese children's cartoons on a Mac
4. Appreciate the warmth of vinyl phonograph records
5. Read books at Starbucks
6. Claim to prefer girls with small breasts
7. Ride a bike wearing spandex stretch trousers
8. Walk past a smoker and force pretentious coughing noises
9. Take comfort in believing size doesn't matter
10. Feign disgust at the idea of eating a Big Mac
 
2013-09-12 04:52:45 PM  

Phoenix_M: Bill Gates and Warren Buffet aren't giving away shiat, it's a tax scam.


Ever taken a deduction? You're participating in the tax scam you're complaining about, so STFU.
 
2013-09-12 04:53:12 PM  

letrole: 6. Claim to prefer girls with small breasts


Hey, now...
 
2013-09-12 04:53:53 PM  

steamingpile: This is why estate taxes exist. We have agreed, as a society, that at least some of these huge piles of wealth should be put back into the public coffers when their rich owners die.

This is the dumbest line from the article, this tax does not affect the rich they just move their money where it is not subjected to this tax, this law affects the middle class to low income people the most when they have richer relatives die and have no clue how to handle money that would desperately help them pay off a lot of their bills. Our 2nd cousins had their uncle die after he had a ton of oil tapped on his property, after he died they had to sell off most of the property to pay off taxes due, they are still broke as shiat since after that all that was left was a few thousand per each family. If they could have kept most of it quite a few of their kids could have went to college but now they are stuck working shiat jobs that endanger their health and safety on a daily basis.

The estate tax law needs to be changed to allow poor or middle class to keep more, its a farking cash grab from the government and idiots act like this is a rich tax.


I'm getting an inheritance in less than a month from the In-laws' grandparents...6 figures, so I'm getting a kick out these replies...

...seriously.  $200,000.  Already setup paying to build a house in cash, will mortgage the 400-500k value to the bank and will buy 2 more houses...will rent them out and retire in less than 10 years.

TAX ME, TAX THE EVIL RICH!
 
2013-09-12 04:54:22 PM  

letrole: 10. Feign disgust at the idea of eating a Big Mac


You know, some Wal-Marts have McDonald's in them...
 
2013-09-12 04:55:08 PM  

nosferatublue: Do you have any idea what kind of portfolio the family is invested in - domestic stocks, venture capital, municipal bonds, foreign stocks, etc?


Doesn't matter what it's invested in really. Unless all the shares of stock they buy are bought at IPO, then they're just buying shares of stock from other people, which doesn't do the issuing companies any good. It certainly doesn't do much to get more money moving around in the economy. If they got into being venture capitalists that would get money moving around, if they got into funding small businesses by way of low interest loans, that would get money moving around even more. Certainly better than what they're doing now.
 
2013-09-12 04:55:18 PM  

steamingpile: They completely ignore that they have donated millions to schools in their home state and built one of the finest museums/art galleries not in a major city.


For the record, when your net worth is in the tens of billions, "millions" isn't even 1%. If they followed Church doctrine, they should be donating approximately 2 billion each to meet the 10% marker.

They aren't and they are collectively making the taxpayers subsidize their employees by depressing wages to at or below poverty levels. I've taken a serious look at Walmart and seen a LOT that can be done to make the place better, but I won't work for $8.00 an hour with my skill set.

/is this logical enough for you?
 
2013-09-12 04:55:57 PM  

Phineas: Its somewhat funny but mostly sad... The amount of OWS-type idiots who believe rich people are preventing others from having things. Spend less time gobbling up whatever Obama and the rest of the Democrat party are ejaculating, and more time focusing on improving your own quality of life, and youll be far happier.


There are a lot of strawmen in this thread. It's starting to present a fire hazard.
 
2013-09-12 04:56:28 PM  

Scoop84: letrole: 10. Feign disgust at the idea of eating a Big Mac

You know, some Wal-Marts have McDonald's in them...


But not many bridges; I see a conflict of interest.
 
2013-09-12 04:56:37 PM  

letrole: Anyone who makes snide remarks about Wal-Mart also tends to:

1. Own a TV but haven't turned it on in years
2. Drink microbrewery beer
3. Watch Japanese children's cartoons on a Mac
4. Appreciate the warmth of vinyl phonograph records
5. Read books at Starbucks
6. Claim to prefer girls with small breasts
7. Ride a bike wearing spandex stretch trousers
8. Walk past a smoker and force pretentious coughing noises
9. Take comfort in believing size doesn't matter
10. Feign disgust at the idea of eating a Big Mac


As opposed to people who makes snide remarks about people who dislike Wal-Mart, who:

1. Are so thoroughly uncreative that they need to copypasta the same stupid list into every thread
2. There is no 2.
 
2013-09-12 04:57:59 PM  

WhyteRaven74: nosferatublue: Do you have any idea what kind of portfolio the family is invested in - domestic stocks, venture capital, municipal bonds, foreign stocks, etc?

Doesn't matter what it's invested in really. Unless all the shares of stock they buy are bought at IPO, then they're just buying shares of stock from other people, which doesn't do the issuing companies any good. It certainly doesn't do much to get more money moving around in the economy. If they got into being venture capitalists that would get money moving around, if they got into funding small businesses by way of low interest loans, that would get money moving around even more. Certainly better than what they're doing now.


I read that several times, and it just got funnier each time. Guys...check this out. Seriously.
 
2013-09-12 04:58:10 PM  
Don't blame the Waltons. Blame the Vietnam War.

It's true. Study it out.
 
2013-09-12 04:58:55 PM  

steamingpile: it amazes me to this day how the kennedy's are so revered yet people ignore how their father was such a scumbag and was the only reason why they were rich.


My dad was a scumbag. Does that mean I can never be revered?

Come to think of it, is that why I'm  not revered already? Seriously, you people need to start with the reverence already. While I'm young, please.
 
2013-09-12 04:59:08 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?


Nice non-sequitur.

/Look over there!!!
 
2013-09-12 04:59:42 PM  

Scoop84: I just wonder if we (the taxpayers) are better off having these folks earn Wal-Mart wages than nothing.


You're presenting a rather odd dichotomy, that WalMart not only is, but if it wasn't, the people who currently work there would be working nowhere.

Phineas: The amount of OWS-type idiots who believe rich people are preventing others from having things.


No one is arguing that at all, just that when you keep accumulating money, you diminish how much money is circulating between people, which hurts the economy.
 
2013-09-12 05:01:08 PM  

Thunderpipes: BKITU: steamingpile: The estate tax law needs to be changed to allow poor or middle class to keep more, its a farking cash grab from the government and idiots act like this is a rich tax.

From the IRS website: the applicable exclusion amount for 2013 is $5,250,000.

If you think the estate tax hits the poor or middle class, you're a tool of punditry.

And the rancher who is sitting on millions in land, but doesn't make much money a year, can't pass it on to their kids, because the IRS will simply take the land. nice. No choice but to sell it off.


That's the point of it... working as expected...
 
2013-09-12 05:01:33 PM  

HeartBurnKid: letrole: Anyone who makes snide remarks about Wal-Mart also tends to:

1. Own a TV but haven't turned it on in years
2. Drink microbrewery beer
3. Watch Japanese children's cartoons on a Mac
4. Appreciate the warmth of vinyl phonograph records
5. Read books at Starbucks
6. Claim to prefer girls with small breasts
7. Ride a bike wearing spandex stretch trousers
8. Walk past a smoker and force pretentious coughing noises
9. Take comfort in believing size doesn't matter
10. Feign disgust at the idea of eating a Big Mac

As opposed to people who makes snide remarks about people who dislike Wal-Mart, who:

1. Are so thoroughly uncreative that they need to copypasta the same stupid list into every thread
2. There is no 2.


Jesus that farking guy is still around. Hard to believe.
 
2013-09-12 05:02:37 PM  
Phineas:

You're wasting your time.  Alice Walton is not going to sleep with you.
 
2013-09-12 05:03:23 PM  

nosferatublue: I read that several times, and it just got funnier each time. Guys...check this out. Seriously.


So you think buying $50 million in stock which puts money in the hands of a few people, and not even the company whose stock you bought, is better than making a ton of small loans that puts money in lots of hands?
 
2013-09-12 05:03:29 PM  

anfrind: Phineas:

You're wasting your time.  Alice Walton is not going to sleep with you.


She will if he comes in a gallon jar.
 
2013-09-12 05:03:52 PM  
Just as we have term limits for some politicians (not enough limits, I might add....), we should have limits for assholes like this. You can be a selfish 100 billionaire, but only for 10 years. Then you get tossed in the middle of Harlem "Die Hard with a Vengeance" style.
 
2013-09-12 05:05:27 PM  
The Waltons should burn right along with their Chicom business partners.
 
2013-09-12 05:05:29 PM  
Horrible people like the Waltons make me wish I believed in Hell.
 
2013-09-12 05:06:10 PM  

Phineas: Its somewhat funny but mostly sad... The amount of OWS-type idiots who believe rich people are preventing others from having things.  Spend less time gobbling up whatever Obama and the rest of the Democrat party are ejaculating, and more time focusing on improving your own quality of life, and youll be far happier.


Analogy time: you me and a buddy are playing Monopoly... all the properties are sold, I own 10 properties... 1 of each color, but all 3 of the light blues.  Since I have one of each other color also, if I just refuse to trade, EVER, then I am the only one with a Monopoly and I *will* win the game, guaranteed.  So yes, my hoarding of the property does prevent you from focusing on improving the quality of your Monopoly life, as it is as good as it can get.

If this doesn't work, I'll come up with analogies involving Connect Four and Clue also...
 
2013-09-12 05:07:11 PM  
Does Subby  expect people of wealth to give away that wealth? Just asking ... and if so, what percentage? What is enough percentage? What is too little? To whom should that wealth be given? When? In what manner? How is this decided so that Subby is happy with the results?
 
2013-09-12 05:08:13 PM  

MBooda: Good night, chief.


Goodnight, McCloud
 
2013-09-12 05:08:13 PM  

misanthropic1: Scoop84: letrole: 10. Feign disgust at the idea of eating a Big Mac

You know, some Wal-Marts have McDonald's in them...

But not many bridges; I see a conflict of interest.


wiltonpartners.comView Full Size


/hot
 
2013-09-12 05:09:16 PM  
Who cares, really its their money to do with as they please as long as they are not breaking any laws and or murdering villages of short purple people for their amusement then I don't get the outrage unless its just wealth envy. I know if I had tons of money I wouldn't be so quick to get rid of it unless it was to lavish myself and my family with stuff that others could only dream of having like a yacht that could become an airship or some shat like that.

People have issues with what they pay their employees, its not like they are forcing them to work there. If they don't like their wages then go get a different job or those complaining about it how about you start a business and build it from the the ground up to a huge successful giant like Walmart but pay what you think your employees are worth.

I have had shiatty paying jobs for the at least half of my adult working life so far but that was by choice due to not being motivated to attain more and was happy with shooting at people and blowing shiat up and or boozing so much my pooped turned white. Once I decided I wanted more out of life I tried a few different things that required more of myself and each time I upped my worth a little more until I finally found something that I am happy doing and can provide a good life for my family.

Don't like your lot in life then do something about it, I had no help and had farked up plenty in life which created some obstacles, some pretty facking huge when it comes to things like clearing FBI background checks and what not but I did it, wasn't easy nor quick but was a choice I made and followed through with.
 
2013-09-12 05:09:28 PM  
The Waltons would hire child labor to cut costs if it were legal.  They are scum.

I have nothing against getting rich.  I have nothing against wanting to keep your profits.  The Waltons are getting rich via a taxpayer subsidy (the highest rate of employees on government assistance in the entire country).

The Waltons will be amongst the first against the wall when ther revolution comes (just after politicians).
 
2013-09-12 05:10:51 PM  

BolloxReader: Intergenerational wealth is aristocracy, plain and simple. You die, your spouse dies and your kids are 21+, it should go away. No family trusts. No estate planning. No "heirs." And no passing on wealth to children before one dies. You earn it, you enjoy the fruits of your labor. Live it up. But it ends there.


I feel the same way.  And it's totally a coincidence that the money should all be given to me.  I'm not saying this just so I get the money, I'm saying it because reasons.
 
2013-09-12 05:11:12 PM  

FlashHarry: well, that's their right, of course. just as it's my right not to shop at their shiatty stores.


"Rights" are relative. If we as the collective decide that murder is a "right" then murder becomes legally sanctioned and protected. That is to say, just because we are allowing this kind of money laundering to happen doesn't mean it's right and shouldn't be challenged.
 
2013-09-12 05:12:14 PM  
 I always thought it was weird how Sam ran walmart like "America fark yeah" and his kids run it more like "fark America." I think it's the difference between growing up with money and not.
 
2013-09-12 05:12:25 PM  

WhyteRaven74: nosferatublue: I read that several times, and it just got funnier each time. Guys...check this out. Seriously.

So you think buying $50 million in stock which puts money in the hands of a few people, and not even the company whose stock you bought, is better than making a ton of small loans that puts money in lots of hands?


I honestly don't even know where to begin, even if I was inclined to try. Cripes. 

Here's a thought - find someone who works in financial services and ask them where the money in a bank comes from. Then just keep asking "and where does THAT money come from?" until they get sick of answering and leave.

If they stick with you long enough, I have a feeling it will blow your mind.
 
2013-09-12 05:12:35 PM  

letrole: Anyone who makes snide remarks about Wal-Mart also tends to:

1. Own a TV but haven't turned it on in years
2. Drink microbrewery beer
3. Watch Japanese children's cartoons on a Mac
4. Appreciate the warmth of vinyl phonograph records
5. Read books at Starbucks
6. Claim to prefer girls with small breasts
7. Ride a bike wearing spandex stretch trousers
8. Walk past a smoker and force pretentious coughing noises
9. Take comfort in believing size doesn't matter
10. Feign disgust at the idea of eating a Big Mac


Your list is old and you should be ashamed.
 
2013-09-12 05:13:00 PM  

WhyteRaven74: You're presenting a rather odd dichotomy, that WalMart not only is, but if it wasn't, the people who currently work there would be working nowhere.


No.  We don't know where (or if) they would be working if Wal-Mart didn't exist.  Maybe elsewhere, maybe not at all.

We do know that, right now, they can't get better paying jobs.
 
2013-09-12 05:13:25 PM  

Thunderpipes: BKITU: steamingpile: The estate tax law needs to be changed to allow poor or middle class to keep more, its a farking cash grab from the government and idiots act like this is a rich tax.

From the IRS website: the applicable exclusion amount for 2013 is $5,250,000.

If you think the estate tax hits the poor or middle class, you're a tool of punditry.

And the rancher who is sitting on millions in land, but doesn't make much money a year, can't pass it on to their kids, because the IRS will simply take the land. nice. No choice but to sell it off.


There are multiple ways around this.  The most common is to incorporate the ranch/farm/cottages/boat as a business, and over a period of several years transfer shares of the business to your relatives.  If you have that many assets, you should be thinking about this kind of thing well in advance of your death.  After all, why give your children a huge windfall only after you die?? Shouldn't you be looking out for them when you are still living?

The estate tax only affects a very small few who have piles of cash lying around and didn't plan ahead.  Sorry, but you either have to be colossally stupid or stupidly rich if you can't get out of them.  The estate tax will never apply to 99% of the people who defend it.
 
2013-09-12 05:13:50 PM  

steamingpile: Inchoate: steamingpile: Whats your point? They earned it and can do what they want.

They inherited it. Big difference.

Actually they didnt, their father forced them to work for a living, its not like they turned 18 and were millionaires, read the history of each kid and he made all of them either finish school or start at the bottom.


I'll just leave this here. No doubt this disgrace to the bootstrappy Walton name was unceremoniously disowned and left penniless on the streets of Bentonville, right?

/although I do love the "it doesn't count as inheriting hundreds of millions of dollars if you had to go to college first to get it" logic
 
2013-09-12 05:14:32 PM  

machoprogrammer: Headso: steamingpile: it amazes me to this day how the kennedy's are so revered yet people ignore how their father was such a scumbag and was the only reason why they were rich.

You revere the Kennedys about as much as I revere the Waltons. Heh, are you asking people to be nice to the Waltons but not the Kennedys?

Why can't we hate both? Fark the Kennedys too


I hate the Kennedys a little bit less simply because lots of them have used their status in life and platforms to attempt to do some good in the world. But lots of them are assholes as well.

I'm a liberal. I despise the Waltons and everyone else in the "we're rich enough to live like kings for 1000 years, but we're still willing to make lots of other people's lives worse in order to push that to 1100" camp (the Kochs being the worst, followed by loads of others including, yes, the dreaded Soros). But actually  legislatingagainst that would be pretty much impossible. What are you going to do, make it illegal to have anything over a certain amount of money?

The very most "awesome without being wholly unrealistic" law in my opinion would be something like "Every corporation must share 30% of its profits with its employees." That'd be great, and it'd allow for the Waltons to remain filthy rich without being  completelyevil.

Or how about this: billionaires get together and make a pact stating that no matter how much money they've got, they'll leave no more than $10 million to each of their children. That'd be more than enough for them to live comfortably for their entire lives without working, if that's what they wanted - or more than enough to take a crack at making their own fortune.
 
2013-09-12 05:15:49 PM  

7th Son of a 7th Son: stirfrybry: Good night, John boy.

Dammit! Can't a guy masturbate in this house??!!


Good night, Jack.
 
2013-09-12 05:16:32 PM  

dropdfun: Who cares, really its their money

slaves to do with as they please as long as they are not breaking any laws...

Placed this into a different context so that hopefully you will understand why sometimes the law needs to change.
 
2013-09-12 05:16:35 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Dancin_In_Anson: They take advantage of tax laws...much in the same way as you and I do...and much like Gates and Buffet do.

What was the beef again?

You and I taking advantage of tax laws, with the few thousand we collectively pay in taxes every year is nothing compared to a single loophole exploited by the 8+-figure crowd.

There's also the problem that they, with their financial largesse, can affect what the actual tax laws are (while we can't to the same degree), making the idea that we're anything close to a level playing field ludicrous on its face.

There's "gaming the system", and there's "creating a system favorable to your games". We may do the former for the cost of maybe a few million total, nationwide, but the Waltons (and the millionaires in Congress) do the latter to the tune of tens (if not hundreds) of billions.


Flat tax. No tax exemptions. Everybody pays
 
2013-09-12 05:16:42 PM  
It is their business, they have the right to use any means to keep as much money as possible especially if it's legal or there's no law against it. It doesn't matter what you or I think, a person's property is his property. They own that much money, you and I own what we have. Nobody can tell us how we should use our money. Who wants to pay so much taxes? I bet everyone here tries to pay only the minimum. Same with the Walmart family. They're just like us, they think "Why should we give away a huge amount of our money?"

Don't hate them just because they are rich and they're trying their hardest to pay as little taxes as possible, because even if we're not as rich as they are, we still do the same. I bet if taxes were optional none of us would be paying.
 
2013-09-12 05:17:17 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: anfrind: Phineas:

You're wasting your time.  Alice Walton is not going to sleep with you.

She will if he comes in a gallon jar.


OK, but it may take a while for him to fill it.
 
2013-09-12 05:17:36 PM  

cptrios: Every corporation must share 30% of its profits with its employees.


No corporation ever makes a profit.  Seriously, go look at the tax records.
 
2013-09-12 05:17:44 PM  
Who the fark cares. It's their money!!
 
2013-09-12 05:18:47 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Scoop84: I just wonder if we (the taxpayers) are better off having these folks earn Wal-Mart wages than nothing.

You're presenting a rather odd dichotomy, that WalMart not only is, but if it wasn't, the people who currently work there would be working nowhere.

Phineas: The amount of OWS-type idiots who believe rich people are preventing others from having things.

No one is arguing that at all, just that when you keep accumulating money, you diminish how much money is circulating between people, which hurts the economy.


The money supply in the United States doesn't work that way. See, it grows every year.  Its not a zero sum gain that doesn't get spread around.

Also, people please realize that this is net WORTH, and not the god damn cash they are storing in a large bank like Scrooge McDuck.
 
2013-09-12 05:20:30 PM  

Fusilier: Flat tax. No tax exemptions. Everybody pays


Expect the standard retorts, "but the rich should pay more!:"  And what is your biggest complaint about the current system?  "The rich have so many loopholes that they don't pay any taxes."   Exactly, flat tax, no exemptions.  That means no loopholes.  That means the rich will actually pay more, not less.  That's assuming capital gains tax is handled propertly, because the rich usually don't have income that falls under the regular income tax system.
 
2013-09-12 05:20:39 PM  
Those that say they take advantage of tax laws, they do to the extent of hiding billions more in assets than they admit to having.  They also use slave labor in US held territories and say it is made in the US, continue their practice of not paying fair wages and denying health coverage and breaks, make sure that those employees who want health coverage use the state's medicare programs of which walmart does get a kick back thanks to those tax laws, and anyone who still shops at walmart because it's such a great deal simply doesn't pay attention to what is actually going on; honey made in china made out of petroleum products and meat that isn't farm raised and might not even be meat.  If you shop there you are the reason this country is failing.
 
2013-09-12 05:20:59 PM  

jayphat: Also, people please realize that this is net WORTH, and not the god damn cash they are storing in a large bank like Scrooge McDuck.


Scrooge McDuck... now THERE was one evil bastard... he got his fortune by committing genocide on an African village so he could turn it into a rubber plantation...
 
2013-09-12 05:22:05 PM  

WhyteRaven74: So you think buying $50 million in stock which puts money in the hands of a few people, and not even the company whose stock you bought, is better than making a ton of small loans that puts money in lots of hands?


I imagine what he's getting at is that demand in the secondary market is what keeps your stock price high like you want it, so when you issue more shares you benefit from the high price.
 
2013-09-12 05:22:13 PM  
Back in the late 80's I used Wal-Mart as an example of what we would be one day.  The game in America is eventually one company will own everything and everyone will work there for 5.00 and have to buy everything from them.

I did not realize that Wal-Mart was really trying to win at real Monopoly.  After seeing Judge Dread where they had Taco Bell being the only food in the future I never dreamed that either, but it's coming down the Pike (before Wal-Mart buys that too).
 
2013-09-12 05:22:41 PM  
As long as they aren't breaking the law, it's their money to do what they please with. However I hate when these types of people start declaring themselves Christians and trying to impose their type of morality in the name of Christianity onto others when everything they do is in direct opposition to the Christian teachings of charity and love.
 
2013-09-12 05:23:29 PM  

paygun: I imagine what he's getting at is that demand in the secondary market is what keeps your stock price high like you want it, so when you issue more shares you benefit from the high price.


No no no - let him keep talking!
 
2013-09-12 05:24:32 PM  

OgreMagi: cptrios: Every corporation must share 30% of its profits with its employees.

No corporation ever makes a profit.  Seriously, go look at the tax records.


If I could fix two things about the United States tax code, it would be these two things:
1. Where your headquarters is is the state in which you pay corporate taxes. Easiest example, Apple. Huge famous headquarters in Cali, incorporated out of a one door office in Nevada that no-one farking works in.
2. The portion of income you make off of this country, documented down to the god damn dime, is the portion of your companies profits, regardless of subsidiaries, that you pay in this country. None of this crap where you make $50 million as a company, but the American branch shows a lose by paying $100 million to an Ireland based subsidiary. Sorry, not gonnna work that way.
 
2013-09-12 05:25:16 PM  
I'm A-Okay with them having their inherited wealth. Know what I'm  not okay with? Trying to scam the IRS when you have money coming out your ass.
 
2013-09-12 05:25:19 PM  

OgreMagi: The Waltons would hire child labor to cut costs if it were legal.  They are scum.

I have nothing against getting rich.  I have nothing against wanting to keep your profits.  The Waltons are getting rich via a taxpayer subsidy (the highest rate of employees on government assistance in the entire country).

The Waltons will be amongst the first against the wall when ther revolution comes (just after politicians).


I know you and I don't agree a lot of the time, but I just have to say... THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS
 
2013-09-12 05:26:35 PM  

jayphat: WhyteRaven74: Scoop84: I just wonder if we (the taxpayers) are better off having these folks earn Wal-Mart wages than nothing.

You're presenting a rather odd dichotomy, that WalMart not only is, but if it wasn't, the people who currently work there would be working nowhere.

Phineas: The amount of OWS-type idiots who believe rich people are preventing others from having things.

No one is arguing that at all, just that when you keep accumulating money, you diminish how much money is circulating between people, which hurts the economy.

The money supply in the United States doesn't work that way. See, it grows every year.  Its not a zero sum gain that doesn't get spread around.

Also, people please realize that this is net WORTH, and not the god damn cash they are storing in a large bank like Scrooge McDuck.


See, what we need to do is take the Walton's lucky dime and give it to the government.  Then the government will have the power to make all the money it wants without having to take it from people.
 
2013-09-12 05:26:36 PM  

paygun: WhyteRaven74: So you think buying $50 million in stock which puts money in the hands of a few people, and not even the company whose stock you bought, is better than making a ton of small loans that puts money in lots of hands?

I imagine what he's getting at is that demand in the secondary market is what keeps your stock price high like you want it, so when you issue more shares you benefit from the high price.



And what do the people who sold him the stock do with the $50,000,000?
 
2013-09-12 05:26:44 PM  

cptrios: What are you going to do, make it illegal to have anything over a certain amount of money?


Everybody hold your breath while anyone in power on either side of the aisle gets right on that.
 
2013-09-12 05:27:06 PM  
A day of reckoning will come. Not in our lifetimes or even our children's lifetime, but at some point the masses will not be appeased with reality TV and enough income to keep them hopeful and helpless. Or more probably, some outer space people are going to reveal themselves and show us how to run a civilized society where the exploitation of people and the manipulation of economic systems isn't the true objective of wealth. Outer space people know that it isn't a viable paradigm and moved in a different direction in order to prolong their existence in a terminal universe.
 
2013-09-12 05:27:11 PM  

dj245: The estate tax only affects a very small few with piles of cash laying around


9400 returns in 2012 were subject to the Estate Tax, according to the IRS.

Of those, stock and real estate made up about half of all estate tax decedent asset holdings.

Of those 9400 returns, cash made up about 9.4% of all estate tax decedent asset holdings, averaged among the varying levels. Total cash assets from all estate tax returns in 2012 was $11,726,706,000. Total of all assets was $124,454,310,000

But here's the best number from the IRS. Total Net Estate Tax remitted in 2012 was about $8.4B.
 
2013-09-12 05:28:30 PM  

jayphat: 1. Where your headquarters is is the state in which you pay corporate taxes. Easiest example, Apple. Huge famous headquarters in Cali, incorporated out of a one door office in Nevada that no-one farking works in.


Brilliant plan...for making thousands of large companies move their headquarters out of the country or state.

If you were a ship captain and the rats started fleeing your ship, you'd send your sailors down to get those gosh darned rats back on the ship, wouldn't you?
 
2013-09-12 05:29:04 PM  

Scoop84: And what do the people who sold him the stock do with the $50,000,000?


Well, see, that's their money now.  Just like if you sold your beanie babies at a garage sale.  When people own things and then sell them, they get money.  Typically that's the purpose of selling them.
 
2013-09-12 05:30:25 PM  

stonicus: dropdfun: Who cares, really its their money slaves to do with as they please as long as they are not breaking any laws...

Placed this into a different context so that hopefully you will understand why sometimes the law needs to change.


Except that slaves don't get paid, and are forced to work against their will.  I take it the employees filled out an application at gunpoint and get nothing in return every 2 weeks?

Then you're an idiot.
 
2013-09-12 05:30:28 PM  

HisBoyLeroy: A day of reckoning will come. Not in our lifetimes or even our children's lifetime, but at some point the masses will not be appeased with reality TV and enough income to keep them hopeful and helpless. Or more probably, some outer space people are going to reveal themselves and show us how to run a civilized society where the exploitation of people and the manipulation of economic systems isn't the true objective of wealth. Outer space people know that it isn't a viable paradigm and moved in a different direction in order to prolong their existence in a terminal universe.


Right.  Our masses are going to stuff themselves into a cheese- and sauce-fueled coma and an early 'beetus grave.  They're not going to do anything that involves heavy breathing.
 
2013-09-12 05:30:31 PM  

Scoop84: paygun: WhyteRaven74: So you think buying $50 million in stock which puts money in the hands of a few people, and not even the company whose stock you bought, is better than making a ton of small loans that puts money in lots of hands?

I imagine what he's getting at is that demand in the secondary market is what keeps your stock price high like you want it, so when you issue more shares you benefit from the high price.


And what do the people who sold him the stock do with the $50,000,000?


WE BURN IT!!!
 
2013-09-12 05:30:55 PM  

nosferatublue: jayphat: 1. Where your headquarters is is the state in which you pay corporate taxes. Easiest example, Apple. Huge famous headquarters in Cali, incorporated out of a one door office in Nevada that no-one farking works in.

Brilliant plan...for making thousands of large companies move their headquarters out of the country or state.

If you were a ship captain and the rats started fleeing your ship, you'd send your sailors down to get those gosh darned rats back on the ship, wouldn't you?


Yes, I'm sure these huge American companies are just going to uproot right out of the farking country they were made in and continue to do business in. I'm sure Apple is going to jump right out of their multi-multi-multi million dollar corporate headquarters and go to another country.
 
2013-09-12 05:31:49 PM  

OgreMagi: cptrios: Every corporation must share 30% of its profits with its employees.

No corporation ever makes a profit.  Seriously, go look at the tax records.


Not sure you want to go there.

In 2010, the latest year available for Corporations tax data, 467,953 corporate returns were filed with income tax totaling $222,673,325,000. $222B in income tax paid by just Form 1120 Corporations, just in 2010.

503,988 returns had income subject to tax. This means that half a million corporations subject to US income tax had a profit that was taxed.

You can read the stats yourself here:  http://www.irs.gov/uac/SOI-Tax-Stats-Table-18-Returns-of-Active-Corpo r ations
 
2013-09-12 05:32:04 PM  

paygun: Scoop84: And what do the people who sold him the stock do with the $50,000,000?

Well, see, that's their money now.  Just like if you sold your beanie babies at a garage sale.  When people own things and then sell them, they get money.  Typically that's the purpose of selling them.


Easy there, sport.  My point is that money circulates.  They invest/spend, the recipients invest/spend.........

The rich don't have their money sitting in the basement
 
2013-09-12 05:32:33 PM  

nosferatublue: J. Frank Parnell: Phineas: What's this?  Another thread full of liberals whining about other people having things, and mistakenly believing that the fact that others have things somehow prevents they themselves from having things?  Carry on.

It's not really a liberal thing as much as a global economics thing. There's only so much wealth in the world, and the people hoarding trillions actually are preventing others from having it.

Because they bury it under a rock and leave it to rot, right?

What do you think all this money is doing, pray tell?


It's circulating in an almost entirely separate economy from the one average people exist in.  The DOW is at all time nominal highs and corporations have billions in cash reserves yet unemployment is still around 7% and wages as a share of the economy are at all time lows.  The billions and billions of dollars trading hands at the "top" of the economy has almost nothing to do with average people.
 
2013-09-12 05:33:17 PM  

trickymoo: Uncle Pooky: Richest family in the world? That seems incorrect. Wouldn't the Saudi Royal family or the English Monarchy hold that title?

The English monarchy is fahkin NOTHING. They are, on a worldwide scale, relatively poor. I think I remember hearing they had a total of 85 mil. to the crown. If that. Very 'Meh" for a Regency.

The Saudi Family oil $ might be pretty astronomical though...


The English monarchy don't personally own much, it is vested in "The Crown" (sort of a trust fund/estate tax workaround), including the Crown Estates which are worth about £8b ($12b), and other similar entities - there are a couple of duchies the Prince of Wales controls worth about £1b between them as well as others.
 
2013-09-12 05:34:31 PM  

paygun: WhyteRaven74: So you think buying $50 million in stock which puts money in the hands of a few people, and not even the company whose stock you bought, is better than making a ton of small loans that puts money in lots of hands?

I imagine what he's getting at is that demand in the secondary market is what keeps your stock price high like you want it, so when you issue more shares you benefit from the high price.


I think he was trying to make the comparison that if I sell you my old Grand Theft Auto game, neither Rockstar nor its employees made any more money.
 
2013-09-12 05:35:16 PM  

jayphat: nosferatublue: jayphat: 1. Where your headquarters is is the state in which you pay corporate taxes. Easiest example, Apple. Huge famous headquarters in Cali, incorporated out of a one door office in Nevada that no-one farking works in.

Brilliant plan...for making thousands of large companies move their headquarters out of the country or state.

If you were a ship captain and the rats started fleeing your ship, you'd send your sailors down to get those gosh darned rats back on the ship, wouldn't you?

Yes, I'm sure these huge American companies are just going to uproot right out of the farking country they were made in and continue to do business in. I'm sure Apple is going to jump right out of their multi-multi-multi million dollar corporate headquarters and go to another country.


Haven't you figured out by now that if it saves them a dime they will? It won't make sense for all of them, but you seem to get that companies will bend over backwards to make/save money. If you make it far more expensive for them to remain in their current location, why do you have trouble realizing that some will move?

Do you not realize that thousands have done this already in similar contexts? Why do you think your customer support technicians have names like John and Mary but accents that don't quite match?
 
2013-09-12 05:36:01 PM  
It's easy for me to not shop at Wal-Mart, when the city I live in won't let them build one, and the big-box suburban shopping centers are full of other options.

It's not so easy for my cousins in Bumfark Plains, Indiana, where all the Main Street retaers got priced out of business 20 years ago when the Mega Wal-Mart opened, even though it's 40 miles away.
 
2013-09-12 05:36:32 PM  
serbagunamarine.comView Full Size
 
2013-09-12 05:36:32 PM  

nosferatublue: WE BURN IT!!!


Don't listen to this.  The money is put into huge machines that convert it back to its original form.  At the other end of the machine, the tears of the proletariat come out of a small nozzle.
 
2013-09-12 05:36:39 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: FlashHarry: well, that's their right, of course. just as it's my right not to shop at their shiatty stores.

Precisely.  Though I do take issue with them amassing such a fortune by keeping the people that work for them on wages too low to support them.  But yeah - I vote with my wallet.


Your anger is misdirected. You shouldnt have to rely on a job meant for a high school student to support a family. It isnt the Waltons fault that people have to resort to working there.
 
2013-09-12 05:37:07 PM  

Scoop84: And what do the people who sold him the stock do with the $50,000,000?


Odds are, buy another stock. Meanwhile financing to start a small business is rather hard to come by these days.
 
2013-09-12 05:37:26 PM  

OgreMagi: Fusilier: Flat tax. No tax exemptions. Everybody pays

Expect the standard retorts, "but the rich should pay more!:"  And what is your biggest complaint about the current system?  "The rich have so many loopholes that they don't pay any taxes."   Exactly, flat tax, no exemptions.  That means no loopholes.  That means the rich will actually pay more, not less.  That's assuming capital gains tax is handled propertly, because the rich usually don't have income that falls under the regular income tax system.


Then why not a progressive tax including cap gains, no loopholes?
 
2013-09-12 05:37:46 PM  

nosferatublue: Why do you think your customer support technicians have names like John and Mary but accents that don't quite match?


The Texas school system?
 
2013-09-12 05:38:01 PM  

Baryogenesis: nosferatublue: J. Frank Parnell: Phineas: What's this?  Another thread full of liberals whining about other people having things, and mistakenly believing that the fact that others have things somehow prevents they themselves from having things?  Carry on.

It's not really a liberal thing as much as a global economics thing. There's only so much wealth in the world, and the people hoarding trillions actually are preventing others from having it.

Because they bury it under a rock and leave it to rot, right?

What do you think all this money is doing, pray tell?

It's circulating in an almost entirely separate economy from the one average people exist in.  The DOW is at all time nominal highs and corporations have billions in cash reserves yet unemployment is still around 7% and wages as a share of the economy are at all time lows.  The billions and billions of dollars trading hands at the "top" of the economy has almost nothing to do with average people.


Really. What kind of instruments are used when this money changes hands at the "top of the economy?" Space cash?

1.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
 
2013-09-12 05:38:27 PM  
You sound poor.
 
2013-09-12 05:38:51 PM  

stonicus: I think he was trying to make the comparison that if I sell you my old Grand Theft Auto game, neither Rockstar nor its employees made any more money.


I think that's exactly the point, and it was funny because it's wrong.
 
2013-09-12 05:39:55 PM  

Fade2black: stonicus: dropdfun: Who cares, really its their money slaves to do with as they please as long as they are not breaking any laws...

Placed this into a different context so that hopefully you will understand why sometimes the law needs to change.

Except that slaves don't get paid, and are forced to work against their will.  I take it the employees filled out an application at gunpoint and get nothing in return every 2 weeks?

Then you're an idiot.


Back in the day, slavery was legal.  Today tax "loopholes" are legal.  Drunk driving used to be legal.

Our legal system is dynamic for a reason.  Sometimes the laws are bad, or aren't working as intended, or could be improved upon.  Do you disagree with that statement?
 
2013-09-12 05:40:56 PM  

nosferatublue: Do you not realize that thousands have done this already in similar contexts?


Why are you trying to stand up for people who screw over others?

I alone am best: It isnt the Waltons fault that people have to resort to working there.


It is their fault Walmart employees are so badly paid that taxpayers are left to in effect subsidize Walmart.
 
2013-09-12 05:42:13 PM  

paygun: I think that's exactly the point, and it was funny because it's wrong.


if I were to buy ten thousand shares of Apple today, how much of the money I spent on those shares would go to Apple?
 
2013-09-12 05:42:27 PM  

WhyteRaven74: nosferatublue: Do you not realize that thousands have done this already in similar contexts?

Why are you trying to stand up for people who screw over others?


I guess I just have this insane desire to save you from yourselves. I know it won't stop you, though. Screw away.
 
2013-09-12 05:43:05 PM  
 The comments on this article amaze me. Jealousy is such an amazing personality trait. How about working harder and earn more money you pathetic losers. Maybe get a part time job at Walmart. Maybe Obammy can take their money and distribute it to all of you worthless lazy pieces of crap. Then you can upgrade your mobile home and buy your little woman a carton of cigarettes. ENVY is a pathetic trait of the uneducated and sloths that make successful people shake their head.
 
2013-09-12 05:43:32 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Odds are, buy another stock. Meanwhile financing to start a small business is rather hard to come by these days.


It is, and the problem starts with the idea that the guy who made the 50 million on that sale, owns that money.  It's a really hard thing to get around.

It would be a really simple thing to say, "That's too much money for you to have, it's not yours anymore." but it's a really hard thing to do without it having real consequences.  If you introduce the risk into investment, it's not going to happen in a vacuum.
 
2013-09-12 05:43:52 PM  

nosferatublue: I guess I just have this insane desire to save you from yourselves. I know it won't stop you, though. Screw away.


so defending people that hurt the economy is saving people from themselves?
 
2013-09-12 05:44:10 PM  
WhyteRaven74:
I alone am best: It isnt the Waltons fault that people have to resort to working there.

It is their fault Walmart employees are so badly paid that taxpayers are left to in effect subsidize Walmart.


Once again, no it is not. These are not jobs that you keep until you are 40 years old. These jobs should be filled with teenagers. The problem is the people working there do not have the qualifications for anything better. Whose fault that is I guess would be up for debate, but it isnt the employers.
 
2013-09-12 05:44:43 PM  
It didn't take long for the usual deluded douchebag to show up here and defend the plutocratic assholes who rule them.

cptrios
I'm a liberal. I despise the Waltons and everyone else in the "we're rich enough to live like kings for 1000 years, but we're still willing to make lots of other people's lives worse in order to push that to 1100" camp (the Kochs being the worst, followed by loads of others including, yes, the dreaded Soros). But actually  legislatingagainst that would be pretty much impossible. What are you going to do, make it illegal to have anything over a certain amount of money?

Seriously? You can't think of some ways to ease the obscene gap between the rich and poor in the US? Then why is it that we have the biggest wealth gap among modern nations?

Here are some tips:
Close the goddamn tax loopholes that the uber wealthy are forever abusing.
Raise the top tax rate or better yet add a new, higher tax rate for incomes over, say, a million bucks.
Tax capital gains the same as other income.
Raise the estate tax rate.
Stop passing legislation that weakens unions. What's needed is the exact opposite. 
Stop cutting social programs for poor people. Strengthen them.

That's off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more ways we could use legislation to decrease the disgraceful gap between rich and poor in the United States. Sadly and pathetically, the GOP has convinced millions of poor and middle class people to fight on behalf of the super wealthy.
 
2013-09-12 05:44:58 PM  

WhyteRaven74: nosferatublue: Do you not realize that thousands have done this already in similar contexts?

Why are you trying to stand up for people who screw over others?


You know, when ol' Sam started Wal-Mart, people had already been biatching about the mega-rich in the US for 150+ years.  Somehow, he managed to start with very little and end up with a lot.  People are still starting out with little and succeeding -- even going from nothing to the 1%.  Sorry you got left behind.
 
2013-09-12 05:45:49 PM  

rjkline: earn more money


so how much of their billions did the Waltons earn by hard work?

paygun: It is, and the problem starts with the idea that the guy who made the 50 million on that sale, owns that money. It's a really hard thing to get around.


It's not about having a lot of money, it's about utility. Simply investing in stocks and bonds is from a macroeconomic view not the best utility.
 
2013-09-12 05:46:27 PM  

WhyteRaven74: nosferatublue: I guess I just have this insane desire to save you from yourselves. I know it won't stop you, though. Screw away.

so defending people that hurt the economy is saving people from themselves?

 
2013-09-12 05:47:31 PM  

WhyteRaven74: paygun: I think that's exactly the point, and it was funny because it's wrong.

if I were to buy ten thousand shares of Apple today, how much of the money I spent on those shares would go to Apple?


The original location of the goal posts were somewhere around, "the secondary sale of stocks does the issuing company no good" which puts you in disagreement with far more people than just me.
 
2013-09-12 05:47:42 PM  

nosferatublue: WhyteRaven74: nosferatublue: I guess I just have this insane desire to save you from yourselves. I know it won't stop you, though. Screw away.

so defending people that hurt the economy is saving people from themselves?


goshdarnit.

That last one...youmissedthejoke.jpg.
 
2013-09-12 05:47:50 PM  

I alone am best: The problem is the people working there do not have the qualifications for anything better.


That argument would work, if not for places like Costco, which pay people far better than Walmart.
 
2013-09-12 05:48:23 PM  

what_now: FlashHarry: well, that's their right, of course. just as it's my right not to shop at their shiatty stores.

Exactly. You can biatch about this on facebook...or you can just not shop at WalMart.

My brother works for Wal Mart. Everything you've heard about their shady practices are true.


My mother works at Wal Mart.  Some of what you've heard is true, others simply false or exaggerated....
 
2013-09-12 05:49:06 PM  

paygun: "the secondary sale of stocks does the issuing company no good" which puts you in disagreement with far more people than just me.


So, how does me buying those Apple shares today help Apple?
 
2013-09-12 05:49:16 PM  

Scoop84: People are still starting out with little and succeeding -- even going from nothing to the 1%.


Very few people. Which is kind of the point.

mattbruenig.comView Full Size


Link
 
2013-09-12 05:49:23 PM  

paygun: WhyteRaven74: paygun: I think that's exactly the point, and it was funny because it's wrong.

if I were to buy ten thousand shares of Apple today, how much of the money I spent on those shares would go to Apple?

The original location of the goal posts were somewhere around, "the secondary sale of stocks does the issuing company no good" which puts you in disagreement with far more people than just me.


Actually, it was something like "the secondary sale of stocks does the economy no good" but he's gradually learning. Stick with him.
 
2013-09-12 05:49:56 PM  

WhyteRaven74: It's not about having a lot of money, it's about utility. Simply investing in stocks and bonds is from a macroeconomic view not the best utility.


We're back again to the same problem.  If it's their money, they get to choose how to use it.  Maybe the purpose of investing for them is to make more money.  Crazy, I know, but that's what some people get into investment for.
 
2013-09-12 05:50:08 PM  
MONEY FIGHT

ivy.aholic.usView Full Size
 
2013-09-12 05:50:32 PM  

nosferatublue: Actually, it was something like "the secondary sale of stocks does the economy no good" but he's gradually learning. Stick with him.


so, how does the secondary sale of stocks help the economy?
 
2013-09-12 05:50:52 PM  

nosferatublue: J. Frank Parnell: Phineas: What's this?  Another thread full of liberals whining about other people having things, and mistakenly believing that the fact that others have things somehow prevents they themselves from having things?  Carry on.

It's not really a liberal thing as much as a global economics thing. There's only so much wealth in the world, and the people hoarding trillions actually are preventing others from having it.

Because they bury it under a rock and leave it to rot, right?

What do you think all this money is doing, pray tell?


Poor and middle class people that are given money spend it, increasing demand. Rich people that are given money spend some of it, but less than equivalent poorer people would given the same amount, and thus create less extra demand because invest a lot of it. Now if the economy is short of investment capital then money going to rich people might be better for the economy overall because the extra investment could increase employment more than just an increase in demand. But the last 30 years at least there have been massive surpluses of investment capital, hence all the asset booms - too much money chasing too few good investment opportunities.

So effectively every extra $70k or so each rich person accumulates from the economy in the modern situation works out to be one less jobs worth of aggregate demand, and one more person out of work, due to the opportunity cost of the same money being paid in wages to someone would spend it all rather than just some of it.
 
2013-09-12 05:51:04 PM  
Dear Grandma, Grandpa and John Boy.

It's a zero sum game.

And you are leaving it all here and it will likely be pissed away or torched by poors when the sh*t hits the fan.

And all your money won't another second buy.  Ha ha.
 
2013-09-12 05:52:06 PM  

WhyteRaven74: paygun: "the secondary sale of stocks does the issuing company no good" which puts you in disagreement with far more people than just me.

So, how does me buying those Apple shares today help Apple?


Start by imagining how well IPO's would go in a world where stock is not resold. Hint - they'd go crappy!
 
2013-09-12 05:52:53 PM  

WhyteRaven74: So, how does me buying those Apple shares today help Apple?


We'll go again, but I've already answered this once.  Demand on the secondary market keeps the price high.  High prices directly benefit Apple when they issue more stock.
 
2013-09-12 05:53:25 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Scoop84: People are still starting out with little and succeeding -- even going from nothing to the 1%.

Very few people. Which is kind of the point.

[mattbruenig.com image 549x400]

Link


Obviously, 100% can't be in the 1%.

Does that chart show that 57% move up from the bottom quartle?  That's higher than I expected.
 
2013-09-12 05:53:31 PM  

letrole: Anyone who makes snide remarks about Wal-Mart also tends to:

1. Own a TV but haven't turned it on in years
2. Drink microbrewery beer
3. Watch Japanese children's cartoons on a Mac
4. Appreciate the warmth of vinyl phonograph records
5. Read books at Starbucks
6. Claim to prefer girls with small breasts
7. Ride a bike wearing spandex stretch trousers
8. Walk past a smoker and force pretentious coughing noises
9. Take comfort in believing size doesn't matter
10. Feign disgust at the idea of eating a Big Mac


I lol'd at #6.  I simply don't trust those kinds of people.
 
2013-09-12 05:54:09 PM  
"But.. we need to supersize our meals!  And, the boats!  The planes!  They cost a fortune!  Hush money to the parents of 9 year old Costa Rican boys!  Attorneys!  Corporate whores!  Wealth managers!  Judges and legislators!  The gardener alone wants something like 800.00 a month!  Oh, how we suffer!"
 
2013-09-12 05:54:58 PM  

WhyteRaven74: so, how does the secondary sale of stocks help the economy?


People make money from it, which can then be spent.  Other people make money from it indirectly, by having jobs in that industry.

It all starts making sense if you can just step back from the idea that money is immoral.
 
2013-09-12 05:55:23 PM  
To all the "who cares" people.  Even if you don't shop at walmart, you are subsidizing their profits though taxes.  They don't pay their employees a living wage, so those employees get public benefits which are paid by you.  Walmart is a socialized retail chain with privatized profits.  It is absolutely un-American.
 
2013-09-12 05:55:35 PM  

WhyteRaven74: nosferatublue: Actually, it was something like "the secondary sale of stocks does the economy no good" but he's gradually learning. Stick with him.

so, how does the secondary sale of stocks help the economy?


upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
 
2013-09-12 05:56:04 PM  

letrole: Anyone who makes snide remarks about Wal-Mart also tends to:

1. Own a TV but haven't turned it on in years
2. Drink microbrewery beer
3. Watch Japanese children's cartoons on a Mac
4. Appreciate the warmth of vinyl phonograph records
5. Read books at Starbucks
6. Claim to prefer girls with small breasts
7. Ride a bike wearing spandex stretch trousers
8. Walk past a smoker and force pretentious coughing noises
9. Take comfort in believing size doesn't matter
10. Feign disgust at the idea of eating a Big Mac


You forgot cast broad brush, assumptive opprobrium based upon dime store stereotypes.
 
2013-09-12 05:57:43 PM  

paygun: Maybe the purpose of investing for them is to make more money.


Except having more money serves no utility to them. They are not able to do anything if their net worth increases by $5 billion that they aren't able to do already. Also, the Waltons are depending on the good will of others to make the money. If the NYSE gets tired of Walmart, they can delist the stock at their discretion. See, they're acting like everything is theirs and society has no role in it. Thing is, a handful of people could reduce their net worth by a lot in an hour and the government not only would have no role in it, it would have no authority to stop it. Acting like you exist apart from society at large is a game that gets riskier the longer you play it. Funny thing is, a handful of people could be undone not by society at large acting against them, but a handful of people who might not even be thinking about society.
 
2013-09-12 05:59:47 PM  

nosferatublue: WhyteRaven74: nosferatublue: Actually, it was something like "the secondary sale of stocks does the economy no good" but he's gradually learning. Stick with him.

so, how does the secondary sale of stocks help the economy?



When you buy your $5 dollar footlong, the $5 doesn't disappear.

When you buy a stock on the secondary market, that money doesn't disappear, either.
 
2013-09-12 05:59:47 PM  

stonicus: Fade2black: stonicus: dropdfun: Who cares, really its their money slaves to do with as they please as long as they are not breaking any laws...

Placed this into a different context so that hopefully you will understand why sometimes the law needs to change.

Except that slaves don't get paid, and are forced to work against their will.  I take it the employees filled out an application at gunpoint and get nothing in return every 2 weeks?

Then you're an idiot.

Back in the day, slavery was legal.  Today tax "loopholes" are legal.  Drunk driving used to be legal.

Our legal system is dynamic for a reason.  Sometimes the laws are bad, or aren't working as intended, or could be improved upon.  Do you disagree with that statement?


Changing tax laws doesn't fit the allegory you tried to make with slavery.  I don't disagree with your statement, but you seem to be trying the tried and true method of the Left, which is being rich is bad, mention slavery...anything involving race mention Hitler.  They have nothing to do with the point you tried, and failed, to make.
 
2013-09-12 06:00:19 PM  

Scoop84: Obviously, 100% can't be in the 1%.


Right, I'm pretty sure no one here is suggesting every single citizen can or should be in the 1%. There will always be rich people and there will always be poor people. The problem is the middle class is sliding downward while the rich are getting richer. An economy 70% reliant on consumer spending cannot be sustained without a strong middle class. There's just not enough aggregate demand. No demand, no hiring, no hiring, no wages, no wages, no demand. It's a downward spiral. And it's only getting worse.
 
2013-09-12 06:01:34 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Except having more money serves no utility to them.


I think you need to stop telling other people what has utility to them.
 
2013-09-12 06:02:34 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Except having more money serves no utility to them. They are not able to do anything if their net worth increases by $5 billion that they aren't able to do already.


Says you.  Good luck getting them to listen.  Look I understand where you're coming from, I frequently say that the world would be a much better place if I was made benevolent dictator.  I have a hard time selling people on my qualifications.

My Weeners in this thread was that we're going to continue to have these kinds of problems until we make being rich illegal.  Don't hold your breath.
 
2013-09-12 06:02:35 PM  

img188.echo.cxView Full Size
MOAR!!!!11!!

And that, believe it or not,

is pretty much it.
 
2013-09-12 06:03:37 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: To all the "who cares" people.  Even if you don't shop at walmart, you are subsidizing their profits though taxes.  They don't pay their employees a living wage, so those employees get public benefits which are paid by you.  Walmart is a socialized retail chain with privatized profits.  It is absolutely un-American.


According to the left, that is exactly how things should be run.
 
2013-09-12 06:03:42 PM  

nosferatublue: Start by imagining how well IPO's would go in a world where stock is not resold. Hint - they'd go crappy!


Really? Nobody would buy a stock i