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(The Register)   Microsoft's new Windows 8.1 release will manage to make just about everyone equally unhappy   (theregister.co.uk) divider line 124
    More: Followup, Windows, Microsoft, Start Menu, Visual Studio, Windows USER, SkyDrive, BSkyB, Windows 8.1  
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5339 clicks; posted to Geek » on 12 Sep 2013 at 12:42 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



124 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-12 10:00:42 AM  
I was really hoping that msft would fix the whole Windows 8 mess. I do video editing and am a power user. I don't want that stupid metro interface. I am not using a tablet. The writer nailed it by asking why the OBE doesn't ask which interface you would like to use. And hiding icons, stupid.
I'm going to ride my Windows 7 rig to the grave.
 
2013-09-12 10:06:45 AM  
Welp, it looks like I'll be getting my money's worth out of Start8.  This is turning out to be the most useful five bucks I ever spent.
 
2013-09-12 10:28:20 AM  

rooftop235: I was really hoping that msft would fix the whole Windows 8 mess. I do video editing and am a power user. I don't want that stupid metro interface. I am not using a tablet. The writer nailed it by asking why the OBE doesn't ask which interface you would like to use. And hiding icons, stupid.
I'm going to ride my Windows 7 rig to the grave.


I understand the need to address the tablet market, but they sure as hell didn't need to inflict this on the rest of us.

And why did they have to make it so freaking ugly?
 
2013-09-12 10:48:51 AM  

rooftop235: I was really hoping that msft would fix the whole Windows 8 mess. I do video editing and am a power user. I don't want that stupid metro interface. I am not using a tablet. The writer nailed it by asking why the OBE doesn't ask which interface you would like to use. And hiding icons, stupid.
I'm going to ride my Windows 7 rig to the grave.


I just bought a new desktop for my editing. This UI is a piece of shiat.

Need to figure out a way to install 7 pronto. I can't even copy a data dvd to my hard drive. Useless.
 
2013-09-12 11:31:35 AM  

rooftop235: I was really hoping that msft would fix the whole Windows 8 mess. I do video editing and am a power user. I don't want that stupid metro interface. I am not using a tablet. The writer nailed it by asking why the OBE doesn't ask which interface you would like to use. And hiding icons, stupid.


If it's a desktop app it will work almost identically in Win8 as it did in 7.  You can pin commonly used application shortcuts to the taskbar, and even put a file explorer shortcut there if going to the start screen to search/browse through your files bothers you.

The only time I ever have to see Metro is when I boot up, after that I spend all of my time in the desktop space.

Well, except for the Xbox Music app which is metro-only, but once I figured out how it was organized it's not that bad.  It's better than iTunes anyway.
 
2013-09-12 12:11:06 PM  
If you think it sucks on a desktop, try it on a server

/server 2012... I no likey
 
2013-09-12 12:17:20 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: If you think it sucks on a desktop, try it on a server

/server 2012... I no likey


So much this.
 
2013-09-12 12:39:28 PM  
Don't have a tablet. Have a desktop. Reports of the desktop's death are greatly exaggerated (every year for about 10 years now). Will be sticking with Windows 7 till I die.
 
2013-09-12 12:40:49 PM  

RedPhoenix122: MaudlinMutantMollusk: If you think it sucks on a desktop, try it on a server

/server 2012... I no likey

So much this.


So very, very much this.  I didn't like the look of the windows, so I changed their appearance to make them easier for me to use... and it changed the way sites were rendered in IE and Firefox.  I'd love to stick with 2008 R2, but I have customers clamoring for 12, so what can I do?
 
2013-09-12 12:44:26 PM  

timujin: RedPhoenix122: MaudlinMutantMollusk: If you think it sucks on a desktop, try it on a server

/server 2012... I no likey

So much this.

So very, very much this.  I didn't like the look of the windows, so I changed their appearance to make them easier for me to use... and it changed the way sites were rendered in IE and Firefox.  I'd love to stick with 2008 R2, but I have customers clamoring for 12, so what can I do?


Kill those customers, who are obviously dragging humanity down.
 
2013-09-12 12:57:54 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: rooftop235: I was really hoping that msft would fix the whole Windows 8 mess. I do video editing and am a power user. I don't want that stupid metro interface. I am not using a tablet. The writer nailed it by asking why the OBE doesn't ask which interface you would like to use. And hiding icons, stupid.

If it's a desktop app it will work almost identically in Win8 as it did in 7.  You can pin commonly used application shortcuts to the taskbar, and even put a file explorer shortcut there if going to the start screen to search/browse through your files bothers you.

The only time I ever have to see Metro is when I boot up, after that I spend all of my time in the desktop space.

Well, except for the Xbox Music app which is metro-only, but once I figured out how it was organized it's not that bad.  It's better than iTunes anyway.


Pretty much the same for me: boot into metro, immediately click desktop and start working. Have no need for Xbox anything, and I find Metro apps just too ugly and hard to deal with.
 
2013-09-12 12:58:02 PM  

ikanreed: timujin: RedPhoenix122: MaudlinMutantMollusk: If you think it sucks on a desktop, try it on a server

/server 2012... I no likey

So much this.

So very, very much this.  I didn't like the look of the windows, so I changed their appearance to make them easier for me to use... and it changed the way sites were rendered in IE and Firefox.  I'd love to stick with 2008 R2, but I have customers clamoring for 12, so what can I do?

Kill those customers, who are obviously dragging humanity down.


I am curious: do you publish a newsletter?
 
2013-09-12 01:05:51 PM  
It really isn't that bad. To me it is pretty much meh. Only metro app I really use is netflix which works pretty well.
 
2013-09-12 01:07:37 PM  

PainInTheASP: Welp, it looks like I'll be getting my money's worth out of Start8.  This is turning out to be the most useful five bucks I ever spent.


Can't see how anyone with a desktop isn't using a menu solution with win8. I chose Start Menu Reviver. Boot to the desktop, removed everything from the metro side and reset default apps to use classic programs.  Never, ever have to switch over to metro. Windows 8 as it should have been released.
 
2013-09-12 01:10:51 PM  

comhcinc: It really isn't that bad. To me it is pretty much meh. Only metro app I really use is netflix which works pretty well.


So I can go from "Works great" to "It's not that bad." How is this an"upgrade"?

Ever consider advertising as a career track?
 
2013-09-12 01:13:05 PM  

swaxhog: PainInTheASP: Welp, it looks like I'll be getting my money's worth out of Start8.  This is turning out to be the most useful five bucks I ever spent.

Can't see how anyone with a desktop isn't using a menu solution with win8. I chose Start Menu Reviver. Boot to the desktop, removed everything from the metro side and reset default apps to use classic programs.  Never, ever have to switch over to metro. Windows 8 as it should have been released.


I'm not because it's just not necessary.  Pretty much any application I use has a desktop version, and the Start Screen is essentially a full screen start menu anyway, it's not functionally different enough to be worth taking the trouble to change.  A couple weeks of using it and I was used to it.

It's the way things are going, and holding onto the past through hacks isn't going to change that.  I figure it's better to get on board now and get familiar with the new design paradigm sooner rather than later.

I am looking forward to the search enhancements in 8.1 though, that's one area that Windows 8 did degrade the experience a bit from 7.
 
2013-09-12 01:15:01 PM  

swaxhog: PainInTheASP: Welp, it looks like I'll be getting my money's worth out of Start8.  This is turning out to be the most useful five bucks I ever spent.

Can't see how anyone with a desktop isn't using a menu solution with win8. I chose Start Menu Reviver. Boot to the desktop, removed everything from the metro side and reset default apps to use classic programs.  Never, ever have to switch over to metro. Windows 8 as it should have been released.


I can live without a start. I have icons for the stuff I use. But the improved folder file viewer is annoying. I end up browsing my c: drive to find things.
 
2013-09-12 01:16:57 PM  

yanceylebeef: rooftop235: I was really hoping that msft would fix the whole Windows 8 mess. I do video editing and am a power user. I don't want that stupid metro interface. I am not using a tablet. The writer nailed it by asking why the OBE doesn't ask which interface you would like to use. And hiding icons, stupid.
I'm going to ride my Windows 7 rig to the grave.

I just bought a new desktop for my editing. This UI is a piece of shiat.

Need to figure out a way to install 7 pronto. I can't even copy a data dvd to my hard drive. Useless.


Well, if this:  http://www.eightforums.com/windows-8-news/13235-ms-new-secure-boot-lo c ked-bios-arrives.html Is correct, then you have a REAL chance that you are now stuck with Win 8, assuming you bought a Name-brand box and didn't assemble the thing yourself.
 
2013-09-12 01:17:25 PM  

ikanreed: Kill those customers, who are obviously dragging humanity down.


dilbert.com
 
2013-09-12 01:22:00 PM  

yanceylebeef: I can't even copy a data dvd to my hard drive.


Why don't you switch to the classic desktop and use explorer, like you've always done?

8.1 boots to the desktop if you want, now, and since most people launch most of their apps from the taskbar, you almost never have to see the start screen.

Also, the OS is easier on resources than 7, so there's that, too.
 
2013-09-12 01:25:56 PM  
Doesn't make me any more or less unhappy.

Because I'll never install the POSOS.
 
2013-09-12 01:30:22 PM  

Smoking GNU: Well, if this: http://www.eightforums.com/windows-8-news/13235-ms-new-secure-boot-lo c ked-bios-arrives.html Is correct, then you have a REAL chance that you are now stuck with Win 8, assuming you bought a Name-brand box and didn't assemble the thing yourself.


So... every Windows 8 PC that carries the logo has to
1) provide a means to disable secure boot, and
2) provide a way to install your own secure boot keys, in case you want to use secure boot with other operating systems.

Which means, you are not stuck with Windows 8, are not prevented from using ANY operating system you want, are not prevented from using any secure-boot enabled OS you want, and are not prevented from signing your own OS or bootloaders with your own keys to use secure boot.
 
2013-09-12 01:35:20 PM  

1000 Ways to Dye: Smoking GNU: Well, if this: http://www.eightforums.com/windows-8-news/13235-ms-new-secure-boot-lo c ked-bios-arrives.html Is correct, then you have a REAL chance that you are now stuck with Win 8, assuming you bought a Name-brand box and didn't assemble the thing yourself.

So... every Windows 8 PC that carries the logo has to
1) provide a means to disable secure boot, and
2) provide a way to install your own secure boot keys, in case you want to use secure boot with other operating systems.

Which means, you are not stuck with Windows 8, are not prevented from using ANY operating system you want, are not prevented from using any secure-boot enabled OS you want, and are not prevented from signing your own OS or bootloaders with your own keys to use secure boot.


Indeed, since any idiot can do exactly that, it being a really simple-to-understand process  to change.
 
2013-09-12 01:38:05 PM  

Smoking GNU: 1000 Ways to Dye: Smoking GNU: Well, if this: http://www.eightforums.com/windows-8-news/13235-ms-new-secure-boot-lo c ked-bios-arrives.html Is correct, then you have a REAL chance that you are now stuck with Win 8, assuming you bought a Name-brand box and didn't assemble the thing yourself.

So... every Windows 8 PC that carries the logo has to
1) provide a means to disable secure boot, and
2) provide a way to install your own secure boot keys, in case you want to use secure boot with other operating systems.

Which means, you are not stuck with Windows 8, are not prevented from using ANY operating system you want, are not prevented from using any secure-boot enabled OS you want, and are not prevented from signing your own OS or bootloaders with your own keys to use secure boot.

Indeed, since any idiot can do exactly that, it being a really simple-to-understand process  to change.


If you're capable of installing and using Linux in the first place, you'll be able to figure it out.
 
2013-09-12 01:38:37 PM  

1000 Ways to Dye: yanceylebeef: I can't even copy a data dvd to my hard drive.


Also, the OS is easier on resources than 7, so there's that, too.


Well, whoopty shiat.  Hardware power outstripped the needs of the OS a loooong time ago. I'm running Win7 on SSD and an i7 CPU, I doubt that moving to 8 is going to make much, if any, difference in performance.  I'll stick with 7.  Who knows, maybe this'll be the thing that finally pushes me to a different OS.
 
2013-09-12 01:40:29 PM  

timujin: 1000 Ways to Dye: yanceylebeef: I can't even copy a data dvd to my hard drive.


Also, the OS is easier on resources than 7, so there's that, too.

Well, whoopty shiat.  Hardware power outstripped the needs of the OS a loooong time ago. I'm running Win7 on SSD and an i7 CPU, I doubt that moving to 8 is going to make much, if any, difference in performance.  I'll stick with 7.  Who knows, maybe this'll be the thing that finally pushes me to a different OS.


I never used 7, but moving from Vista to 8 did result in a snappier and more stable system.  (i7, 6 gigs of RAM, haven't done the SSD thing yet)
 
2013-09-12 01:41:56 PM  
When you hear words like "good enough, predictable, pretty good" from MicroShiat fans, you know something is not right.....
 
2013-09-12 01:43:41 PM  
MacroShiat...  FTFM
 
2013-09-12 01:45:07 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: timujin: 1000 Ways to Dye: yanceylebeef: I can't even copy a data dvd to my hard drive.


Also, the OS is easier on resources than 7, so there's that, too.

Well, whoopty shiat.  Hardware power outstripped the needs of the OS a loooong time ago. I'm running Win7 on SSD and an i7 CPU, I doubt that moving to 8 is going to make much, if any, difference in performance.  I'll stick with 7.  Who knows, maybe this'll be the thing that finally pushes me to a different OS.

I never used 7, but moving from Vista to 8 did result in a snappier and more stable system.  (i7, 6 gigs of RAM, haven't done the SSD thing yet)


Ah, yeah, I skipped Vista.  Pretty much anything would be an improvement over that POS.
 
2013-09-12 01:45:57 PM  

1000 Ways to Dye: yanceylebeef: I can't even copy a data dvd to my hard drive.

Why don't you switch to the classic desktop and use explorer, like you've always done?



Because you can't biatch about 8 being the worst OS ever if you did that... Since the desktop side of 8 is pretty much the same as it's always been. Even more so with 8.1.
 
2013-09-12 01:52:07 PM  
Win 8 is not horrible, one you tweak it to work like you want.
Having it boot into the Metro-Tablet interface was a stupid move.
Apple has its own tablet like interface (launchpad) in OS X, but the computer does not boot into it as a main screen.
You don't even have to use it if your more comfortable loading programs from the application folder.

notebookitalia.it
 
2013-09-12 01:56:27 PM  

Pharque-it: When you hear words like "good enough, predictable, pretty good" from MicroShiat fans, you know something is not right.....


The under the skin changes are very good.

The interface is different, and not necessarily better, but not worse once you get the feel of it, at least on the desktop.  For touchscreen based devices the new interface is a major improvement.  Older versions of windows sucked for tablets and pretty much required a stylus for use, which made it a non-starter in that space.

It is what it is, MS had made it clear this is the direction they're going, so it's either get on board now or have to learn it all anyway later.  Apple will never own a large portion of the PC market as long as they tie their OS to their high priced hardware, and Linux will always be a niche item.  Various flavors of Windows currently run on about 90% of all PCs, and that's the way things are likely to stay for the foreseeable future.  Move with the times or be left behind.
 
2013-09-12 01:56:54 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I never used 7, but moving from Vista to 8 did result in a snappier and more stable system.


See this sentence, right here?

This sentence tels me that I'm dealing with some sort of technology masochist. It says a whole lot of things about you in 19 short words. No offense, but you're not the person I need to be going to for tech advice, because we don't have a common frame of reference.
 
2013-09-12 01:57:27 PM  
Oh, look. The same people as always telling us that an OS so badly designed that if got both the OS's lead developer and the companies CEO fired is just fine and it's all our fault if we don't want our desktop PC turned into a smartphone.
 
2013-09-12 01:58:57 PM  

Desquamation: 1000 Ways to Dye: yanceylebeef: I can't even copy a data dvd to my hard drive.

Why don't you switch to the classic desktop and use explorer, like you've always done?


Because you can't biatch about 8 being the worst OS ever if you did that... Since the desktop side of 8 is pretty much the same as it's always been. Even more so with 8.1.


Believe me, they'll find something else to biatch about. If Microsoft had basically kept 8 as an upgrade to 7 with no metro and a start menu, the same people would be biatching that they're not being innovative.

I still can't wrap my mind around why people are demanding the old start menu. I stopped using the nested folders part of it as soon as they added in the search box. The start screen has similar functionality. Just start typing the name of an application or file from the start screen and it'll give you a filtered list. A few keystrokes and you're golden, much more efficient than Start > All Programs > Publisher > Program. To each their own, I guess.
 
2013-09-12 02:00:37 PM  
I would have stayed with Windows 7 except the new computer I built with a gtx660 would crash 75% of the time during shutdown and about 2% of the time while running stuff and it was all related to the video driver. Switch to Windows 8 4 months ago and zero crashes.  Windows 7 had been rock solid for me up until that point. I blame lazy programmers wishing to ignore Windows 7 now and use fancy new win8 api's.
 
2013-09-12 02:01:10 PM  

Gonz: TuteTibiImperes: I never used 7, but moving from Vista to 8 did result in a snappier and more stable system.

See this sentence, right here?

This sentence tels me that I'm dealing with some sort of technology masochist. It says a whole lot of things about you in 19 short words. No offense, but you're not the person I need to be going to for tech advice, because we don't have a common frame of reference.


He has every right to only like the shiatty versions of Windows.

It's the trying to convince other people that he's in the right and they are in the wrong that makes him antisocial.

However, I've seen him spend hours trying to convince people that the NSA has done nothing wrong whatsoever and that nobody lied about what they are doing over there AT ALL.
 
2013-09-12 02:02:13 PM  

Smoking GNU: Indeed, since any idiot can do exactly that, it being a really simple-to-understand process to change.


Disabling secure boot is generally easy.

If you're too much of an idiot to do that, you have no business attempting to install another OS.
 
2013-09-12 02:02:37 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: If it's a desktop app it will work almost identically in Win8 as it did in 7.  You can pin commonly used application shortcuts to the taskbar, and even put a file explorer shortcut there if going to the start screen to search/browse through your files bothers you.

The only time I ever have to see Metro is when I boot up, after that I spend all of my time in the desktop space.

Well, except for the Xbox Music app which is metro-only, but once I figured out how it was organized it's not that bad.  It's better than iTunes anyway.


Which is all a royal pain in the ass.  After upgrading to 8.1 for a few weeks to see if anything improved I finally reformatted my box and reinstalled Windows 7.  Metro is farking useless especially on a 30" monitor.
 
2013-09-12 02:05:01 PM  

xalres: Believe me, they'll find something else to biatch about.


I know, right?

Look at all those people biatching about the changes to Windows file copy behavior.

They just biatch at anything that change because they fear change.

Oh wait. Nobody biatches about those changes because they are an example of change for the better.
 
2013-09-12 02:06:37 PM  

Gonz: TuteTibiImperes: I never used 7, but moving from Vista to 8 did result in a snappier and more stable system.

See this sentence, right here?

This sentence tels me that I'm dealing with some sort of technology masochist.



Indeed.
weknowmemes.com
 
2013-09-12 02:07:30 PM  

BullBearMS: xalres: Believe me, they'll find something else to biatch about.

I know, right?

Look at all those people biatching about the changes to Windows file copy behavior.

They just biatch at anything that change because they fear change.

Oh wait. Nobody biatches about those changes because they are an example of change for the better.


But you don't understand. The start screen is ugly and therefore win8 is the worst thing ever to happen to anybody ever.
 
2013-09-12 02:12:26 PM  
Running the 8.1 preview right now.  Its mostly fine, and after doing the check box to boot to desktop, its improved to make it easier to use.  The biggest pain for me are the metro full screen apps.  Why the fark does anyone on a PC really want that.  CALC first launched full screen... just what I need. A farking 1920x1080 calculator.  I've mostly gotten used to it though.

Windows Key>Type program you want.

Its almost immaterial though.  I'll like have to reformat to my owned copy of 7 Ultimate once my technet sub expires.  Sure I'll lose the ability to run Win8 virtual phones, but meh, we'll just push more of our users to use android if I can't create and test our system and apps on virtual mobile devices.
 
2013-09-12 02:13:12 PM  
I like its use of resources, once I get away from the Metro UI - which I never use for anything. So I'll be using the straight to desktop option. I have more issues with Server 2012, which the last I heard will not get any "make users happy again" changes.
 
2013-09-12 02:13:35 PM  
Classic Shell is your friend.

Also, a control panel check box in 8.1 asked me if I wanted to replace the command prompt with PowerShell
 
2013-09-12 02:13:52 PM  
I don't get Microsoft. I would pay a modest amount of money (like $20) every year for an upgraded version of XP but it would have to not change things just for the sake of changing things. As it is now, I'm thinking my next computer is going to run either Linux or FreeBSD because if I'm forced to relearn everything I know how do do (which is what switching to Win8 sounds like), I might as well make the switch from MS.
 
2013-09-12 02:17:21 PM  
I recently bought a touchscreen laptop with windows 8 and I have to admit it's fun as heck to use touchscreen on windows 8. For a desktop I hated it at first and it took forever to get used to it but I did. I don't mind it for a desktop but it's mostly unnecessary for a large screen.

From a media consumption point of view the keyboard + touchscreen combo feels great for a laptop.
 
2013-09-12 02:19:50 PM  

xalres: Believe me, they'll find something else to biatch about. If Microsoft had basically kept 8 as an upgrade to 7 with no metro and a start menu, the same people would be biatching that they're not being innovative.


No, no we wouldn't.  I don't need the new version of the OS to do a bunch of neat new things I've never seen before. It should do the same things it does now, but better.  Manage resources better, make the experience faster or easier, support more optional devices, platforms, software, etc.  (keyword on that last one being "optional").  Making a brand new UI and app platform default or mandatory was not a great idea, as the consumer backlash has shown.  Sure, add it in, but let it be an option I can choose to turn on and learn at my convenience.  Forced change for the sake of change is not synonymous with innovation.
Slapping a tablet interface onto a desktop PC is not innovation.  Thank Zeus that it can be turned off and worked around, otherwise Win8 would have been a real disaster instead of a minor annoyance.
 
2013-09-12 02:21:10 PM  

BullBearMS: Gonz: TuteTibiImperes: I never used 7, but moving from Vista to 8 did result in a snappier and more stable system.

See this sentence, right here?

This sentence tels me that I'm dealing with some sort of technology masochist. It says a whole lot of things about you in 19 short words. No offense, but you're not the person I need to be going to for tech advice, because we don't have a common frame of reference.

He has every right to only like the shiatty versions of Windows.

It's the trying to convince other people that he's in the right and they are in the wrong that makes him antisocial.

However, I've seen him spend hours trying to convince people that the NSA has done nothing wrong whatsoever and that nobody lied about what they are doing over there AT ALL.


I think you have my confused with someone, because I never made that argument.

Gonz: TuteTibiImperes: I never used 7, but moving from Vista to 8 did result in a snappier and more stable system.

See this sentence, right here?

This sentence tels me that I'm dealing with some sort of technology masochist. It says a whole lot of things about you in 19 short words. No offense, but you're not the person I need to be going to for tech advice, because we don't have a common frame of reference.


Well, I upgraded from a single core Pentium 4 box with 512mb of RAM running XP to a Core i7 920 with 6 gigs of RAM running Vista - the overall experience was so much better that I didn't see the need to upgrade to 7, Vista on the new machine was so much better than XP on the old one that I was already happy.

Then MS came out with their $30 limited time upgrade to Windows 8 deal, and I figured, what the hell, I'm got going to get it that cheap again, I might as well go for it.
 
2013-09-12 02:21:39 PM  

Befuddled: I don't get Microsoft. I would pay a modest amount of money (like $20) every year for an upgraded version of XP but it would have to not change things just for the sake of changing things. As it is now, I'm thinking my next computer is going to run either Linux or FreeBSD because if I'm forced to relearn everything I know how do do (which is what switching to Win8 sounds like), I might as well make the switch from MS.


I wouldn't say the change is that drastic. some of your work flow changes which is why I'm guessing people hate it. Once in the desktop mode, everything is largely the same process. The no start button means you have to preempt start menu shortcuts on your desktop or taskbar if you want them all to be on the same screen. I think Start8 got it right and thats pretty much how MS should've implemented this change for traditional PCs.
 
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