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(Reuters)   Assad saves face by denying he will give up chemical arms because he's afraid of America. He'll do it because he's Russia's biatch   (reuters.com) divider line 301
    More: Fail, Russia, Interfax, U.S.  
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1223 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Sep 2013 at 11:14 AM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-12 09:44:59 AM
img208.imageshack.us
 
2013-09-12 09:45:51 AM
i159.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-12 09:52:34 AM
I really think this was a brilliant play of good cop/bad cop.

It seems to have averted a war.
 
2013-09-12 10:08:11 AM
He's not afraid of the US because his Russia's prison b*tch. And he just shamed Russia into stepping in to clean up their mess, in front of the entire yard. Oh, he's not about to have his nation "liberated" by the force of our ordinance love, and an international coalition of cheerleaders, but he still has to go back to his cell to face Big Papa.
 
2013-09-12 10:13:12 AM
If America's threats had nothing to do with this arrangement then why didn't Putin suggest it last month?
 
2013-09-12 10:22:42 AM

mr_bunny: I really think this was a brilliant play of good cop/bad cop.

It seems to have averted a war.


So far.

I think Obama is doing everything in his power to avoid being labeled Dubya 2.  But, I could be wrong.
 
2013-09-12 10:31:00 AM

mr_bunny: I really think this was a brilliant play of good cop/bad cop.

It seems to have averted a war.


well said.  Is Putin only looking out for himself?
 
2013-09-12 10:36:20 AM

James!: If America's threats had nothing to do with this arrangement then why didn't Putin suggest it last month?


No need to talk about this last month. You're making the assumption that this will actually change anything. Right now it's just buying time for all the reports to come out and to show that the US was making threats with little to no proof. Every day our case against Assad looks weaker and weaker.

xanadian: I think Obama is doing everything in his power to avoid being labeled Dubya 2. But, I could be wrong.


The President would be lucky to be labeled Dubya 2. W had given the UN inspectors plenty of time to fail, we had 14ish (cant remember the exact number) UN resolutions, and we had at least 10 points where Iraq was in violation of their peace treaty. We had every right to resume hostilities with Iraq. Key phrase there! "resume hostilities". Iraq had proven they were a threat to the region. They invaded Kuwait. An international force kicked them out and for us not going all the way to Baghdad Saddam and Iraq promised to do certain things. Those things didn't happen. Before we attacked we have over 50 nations in the Coalition of the Willing TM.

Now, the only problem with Iraq was the United States pushed the WMD angle when they should have pushed other ones. In Syria WMDs are all we have. And as far as our "coalition" we have a maybe from France and that's about it.
 
2013-09-12 10:41:43 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: The President would be lucky to be labeled Dubya 2


lol. Right. Whatever you say, chief. Obama is worse than bush. LOL
 
2013-09-12 10:42:22 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: No need to talk about this last month. You're making the assumption that this will actually change anything. Right now it's just buying time for all the reports to come out and to show that the US was making threats with little to no proof. Every day our case against Assad looks weaker and weaker.


If you're going to argue from a place of pure fantasy then what is the point of engaging you?
 
2013-09-12 10:44:40 AM
Will Putin get a Nobel Peace Prize for this?
 
2013-09-12 10:52:35 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: James!: If America's threats had nothing to do with this arrangement then why didn't Putin suggest it last month?

No need to talk about this last month. You're making the assumption that this will actually change anything. Right now it's just buying time for all the reports to come out and to show that the US was making threats with little to no proof. Every day our case against Assad looks weaker and weaker.

xanadian: I think Obama is doing everything in his power to avoid being labeled Dubya 2. But, I could be wrong.

The President would be lucky to be labeled Dubya 2. W had given the UN inspectors plenty of time to fail, we had 14ish (cant remember the exact number) UN resolutions, and we had at least 10 points where Iraq was in violation of their peace treaty. We had every right to resume hostilities with Iraq. Key phrase there! "resume hostilities". Iraq had proven they were a threat to the region. They invaded Kuwait. An international force kicked them out and for us not going all the way to Baghdad Saddam and Iraq promised to do certain things. Those things didn't happen. Before we attacked we have over 50 nations in the Coalition of the Willing TM.

Now, the only problem with Iraq was the United States pushed the WMD angle when they should have pushed other ones. In Syria WMDs are all we have. And as far as our "coalition" we have a maybe from France and that's about it.


You've got it all wrong.

Russia was the major stumbling block in the UN because they were supporting Syria. Obama's threat of military action wasn't just to shake Assad, it was also meant to shake Russia and it worked perfectly. Putin steps in to tell his boy Assad to give up the weapons, war is averted, all is well.

It's Putin who blinked. The GOP propaganda machine is screaming that Putin pulled the rug from under Obama so loudly because they're trying to distract the voters from realizing what actually happened.

Putin is Obama biatch.
 
2013-09-12 10:53:15 AM

James!: If you're going to argue from a place of pure fantasy then what is the point of engaging you?


What is fantasy? The US papers, the UN, and other world powers are calling bs on our evidence that Assad ordered the attacks.  Our case gets weaker everyday. Where is the fantasy in this?

Now I'm glad we are not going to war. I just wish we didn't look like idiots about it.
 
2013-09-12 10:55:45 AM

James!: If America's threats had nothing to do with this arrangement then why didn't Putin suggest it last month?


More importantly... why is it a condition for the U.S. to pledge not to attack Syria after it disarms if the two actions are unrelated.

"Certainly, this is all reasonable, it will function and will work out, only if the U.S. and those who support it on this issue pledge to renounce the use of force, because it is difficult to make any country - Syria or any other country in the world - to unilaterally disarm if there is military action against it under consideration." -Putin
 
2013-09-12 10:57:11 AM
My favorite part of that Putin editorial is where he says the rebels totally used chemical weapons and to solve the problem he's going to take away Assad's. That's some fine logic there.
 
2013-09-12 10:57:41 AM
Give it up SH. The fanbois cannot be reasoned with.
 
2013-09-12 10:58:26 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Now I'm glad we are not going to war. I just wish we didn't look like idiots about it.


Well, we don't look like idiots. We look like we avoided a war through diplomatic means with someone we don't really like very much.

The adults are farking thrilled. The people who hate Obama are struggling to find something to blame him for. It's ok pumpkin. Rush will tell you what to think soon.
 
2013-09-12 11:00:54 AM

WTFDYW: Give it up SH. The fanbois cannot be reasoned with.


Yeah, as if there was ever any reasoning from your side to begin with. First it was "don't attack!" now it's "ha! now you look stupid for coming to a diplomatic agreement!"

Can't you decide which it is?
 
2013-09-12 11:02:05 AM

MrBallou: It's Putin who blinked. The GOP propaganda machine is screaming that Putin pulled the rug from under Obama so loudly because they're trying to distract the voters from realizing what actually happened.


Regardless of who blinked, it is interesting that Real Americans are champing at the bit to make Putin look good and Obama look bad.  It used to be that Americans stuck together against Russians.

Chronic, severe ODS at its worst.
 
2013-09-12 11:03:22 AM

Lionel Mandrake: MrBallou: It's Putin who blinked. The GOP propaganda machine is screaming that Putin pulled the rug from under Obama so loudly because they're trying to distract the voters from realizing what actually happened.

Regardless of who blinked, it is interesting that Real Americans are champing at the bit to make Putin look good and Obama look bad.  It used to be that Americans stuck together against Russians.

Chronic, severe ODS at its worst.


Especially when the GOP told us all throughout the campaign last year that Putin and Russia were our greatest enemy. Good god, keep your story straight.
 
2013-09-12 11:04:14 AM

Lionel Mandrake: MrBallou: It's Putin who blinked. The GOP propaganda machine is screaming that Putin pulled the rug from under Obama so loudly because they're trying to distract the voters from realizing what actually happened.

Regardless of who blinked, it is interesting that Real Americans are champing at the bit to make Putin look good and Obama look bad.  It used to be that Americans stuck together against Russians.

Chronic, severe ODS at its worst.


Am I the only person who doesn't care if Barack Obama had to wear a pretty pink tutu and dance through the Kremlin if it meant we avoided a war AND stopped the use of chemical weapons?

Seriously- "saving face" is important??  I'd rather save Marines.
 
2013-09-12 11:07:34 AM

what_now: Am I the only person who doesn't care if Barack Obama had to wear a pretty pink tutu and dance through the Kremlin if it meant we avoided a war AND stopped the use of chemical weapons?

Seriously- "saving face" is important??  I'd rather save Marines.


Nope, I'm good with that. I'm sure my friends in the NYNG are as well.
 
2013-09-12 11:08:43 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: James!: If you're going to argue from a place of pure fantasy then what is the point of engaging you?

What is fantasy? The US papers, the UN, and other world powers are calling bs on our evidence that Assad ordered the attacks.  Our case gets weaker everyday. Where is the fantasy in this?

Now I'm glad we are not going to war. I just wish we didn't look like idiots about it.


Not a reader I guess.  Two of your links say that Assad did not directly order the attack but do not dispute that his government ordered them, the other doesn't have anything to do with your argument.
 
2013-09-12 11:10:19 AM

cameroncrazy1984: Not us, just you.


We got our hands slapped every time we reached out for help. England our number one ally told us no. France (the one our Secretary of State called our number one ally) gave us a big fat maybe. For us to be the bad cop we needed to show that we could rally the world to our side. We look more isolated then ever.

MrBallou: Putin is Obama biatch.


Putin shows that he can get more countries to do his bidding in one day then we can in weeks and he is our bitach?? How long between Kerry saying that the only way to avoid war was for Assad to give up his weapons (which Mr. Kerry said he would never do) and Assad starting to say he would give up his weapons?? Putin did what our State Department said was impossible!

WTFDYW: Give it up SH. The fanbois cannot be reasoned with.


Remember in the earliest threads people saying it didn't matter who got the credit, just so long as we don't go to war? Now, it's all about who gets the credit.
 
2013-09-12 11:10:41 AM
In the future, it will be revealed that Obama (ever the politician) orchestrated the whole thing. I mean, why threaten Assad right before the G20? Because it gave Russian and American diplomats time to work out the plan that would save Russian investments while making Putin look good, and Obama won't go down in history as a war-monger. History won't remember this very well, but if we'd fired on them it would be a black mark on the President's term in office.
 
2013-09-12 11:11:37 AM

WTFDYW: Give it up SH. The fanbois cannot be reasoned with.


Who are you talking about?  The Putin fans?
 
2013-09-12 11:12:46 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: We got our hands slapped every time we reached out for help. England our number one ally told us no. France (the one our Secretary of State called our number one ally) gave us a big fat maybe. For us to be the bad cop we needed to show that we could rally the world to our side. We look more isolated then ever.


No, the other countries just look more isolationist than ever. Also, why do we need anyone else's help? Obama himself said it's not going to be Iraq part 2. You just want to grab on any possible reason that Obama was unsuccessful in this endeavor, and you're doing a bad job of it.
 
2013-09-12 11:12:47 AM
I hope the Kerry/Putin plan works. But I doubt Syria cooperates with independent verification.
 
2013-09-12 11:15:04 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: We got our hands slapped every time we reached out for help. England our number one ally told us no. France (the one our Secretary of State called our number one ally) gave us a big fat maybe.


I thought he said "oldest ally," which is true.  I missed the "number one" thing...if he indeed said that.  I found a quote where he said France was our ally "from day one."
 
2013-09-12 11:17:10 AM
Is this the thread where conservatives who've spent the past 5-6 years wrapping themselves in the flag, shrieking about freedom, and acting like the 2008 and 2012 elections were robberies see absolutely no irony in their siding with a foreign totalitarian dictator?
 
2013-09-12 11:18:51 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: James!: If you're going to argue from a place of pure fantasy then what is the point of engaging you?

What is fantasy? The US papers, the UN, and other world powers are calling bs on our evidence that Assad ordered the attacks.  Our case gets weaker everyday. Where is the fantasy in this?

Now I'm glad we are not going to war. I just wish we didn't look like idiots about it.


Washington Times?
Seriously?

img151.imageshack.us
I've downgraded you from troll to Potato.
 
2013-09-12 11:18:59 AM
Selling arms to and lending political support=being a country's biatch?

Syria is no more Russia's biatch than Israel is ours.

/the polite word is "proxy state"
 
2013-09-12 11:20:18 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: James!: If America's threats had nothing to do with this arrangement then why didn't Putin suggest it last month?

No need to talk about this last month. You're making the assumption that this will actually change anything. Right now it's just buying time for all the reports to come out and to show that the US was making threats with little to no proof. Every day our case against Assad looks weaker and weaker.

xanadian: I think Obama is doing everything in his power to avoid being labeled Dubya 2. But, I could be wrong.

The President would be lucky to be labeled Dubya 2. W had given the UN inspectors plenty of time to fail, we had 14ish (cant remember the exact number) UN resolutions, and we had at least 10 points where Iraq was in violation of their peace treaty. We had every right to resume hostilities with Iraq. Key phrase there! "resume hostilities". Iraq had proven they were a threat to the region. They invaded Kuwait. An international force kicked them out and for us not going all the way to Baghdad Saddam and Iraq promised to do certain things. Those things didn't happen. Before we attacked we have over 50 nations in the Coalition of the Willing TM.

Now, the only problem with Iraq was the United States pushed the WMD angle when they should have pushed other ones. In Syria WMDs are all we have. And as far as our "coalition" we have a maybe from France and that's about it.


What is the link to your GWB fanfic wank page?
 
2013-09-12 11:21:05 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: James!: If you're going to argue from a place of pure fantasy then what is the point of engaging you?

What is fantasy? The US papers, the UN, and other world powers are calling bs on our evidence that Assad ordered the attacks.  Our case gets weaker everyday. Where is the fantasy in this?

Now I'm glad we are not going to war. I just wish we didn't look like idiots about it.


Do you actually bother to read the things you link to?  The first and third only say Assad didn't "personally order" the strikes.  Well, I guess that makes it okay then.  And the second one is about a report that wrapped five days before the chemical weapons attack, so it's got nothing to do with your argument.
 
2013-09-12 11:21:32 AM
If Assad has a kid with Maggie from Newsroom, its features would exist as a singularity on a huge, blank face.
 
2013-09-12 11:23:33 AM

UrukHaiGuyz: Selling arms to and lending political support=being a country's biatch?

Syria is no more Russia's biatch than Israel is ours.

/the polite word is "proxy state"


Well I don't believe Russia has a Syrian lobbying group it has to answer to.
 
2013-09-12 11:23:53 AM
whatever you have to say to make you feel good about yourself...
 
2013-09-12 11:24:04 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: France (the one our Secretary of State called our number one ally) gave us a big fat maybe.


Wrong. "France has declared itself ready to help in any airstrikes."

Please use actual facts in your argument. It's no fun otherwise.
 
2013-09-12 11:24:14 AM

I_C_Weener: I hope the Kerry/Putin plan works. But I doubt Syria cooperates with independent verification.


At which point, Russia is hopefully invested enough that they kind of have to handle it, or lose face internationally.

Which would a nice change of pace.

/I have my doubts that this was 6 dimensional diplomatic chess
//But it looks like it's working out pretty well, all things considered.
///Cooler heads prevailed for the moment.
 
2013-09-12 11:24:18 AM
US intervention played no role in his decision-making, he had been planning this since easter.

/honest
 
2013-09-12 11:24:23 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: MrBallou: Putin is Obama biatch.

Putin shows that he can get more countries to do his bidding in one day then we can in weeks and he is our bitach?? How long between Kerry saying that the only way to avoid war was for Assad to give up his weapons (which Mr. Kerry said he would never do) and Assad starting to say he would give up his weapons?? Putin did what our State Department said was impossible!


It was impossible BECAUSE Putin was opposing it. What we had to do was scare him into giving in. The foreign affairs people of this administration is smart enough to get the job done.
 
2013-09-12 11:25:11 AM

I_C_Weener: I hope the Kerry/Putin plan works. But I doubt Syria cooperates with independent verification.


He will cooperate fully.  This will give him back some measure of legitimacy and he can then crush (or he thinks he can crush) the rebels with impunity.
 
2013-09-12 11:25:32 AM
Nobody cares what Assad says.
He's a pawn in all this and will soon be dead.
 
2013-09-12 11:25:33 AM

Fart_Machine: The Stealth Hippopotamus: James!: If America's threats had nothing to do with this arrangement then why didn't Putin suggest it last month?

yada yada yada

What is the link to your GWB fanfic wank page?


www.fark.com
 
2013-09-12 11:28:06 AM
It's already worked. Everywhere I go I see conservatives lining up against Obama on this issue as every other issue, aligned with Putin and often praising him while slamming Obama - never mind that it was their attitude of do nothing that Assad is using as a scapegoat and has been using for his propaganda for the past several weeks.

It's amazing how quickly these people turn against their own country because of the black man in the White House. These farkers do more damage to our country due to their own ignorance and insecurity than any enemy could ever dream of.
 
2013-09-12 11:28:41 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Putin shows that he can get more countries to do his bidding in one day then we can in weeks and he is our bitach?? How long between Kerry saying that the only way to avoid war was for Assad to give up his weapons (which Mr. Kerry said he would never do) and Assad starting to say he would give up his weapons?? Putin did what our State Department said was impossible!


lol, first of all "more countries" in this context is... a single country.  Secondly, it would be impossible for our state department to convince Assad to give up his weapons without Russia stepping in; you really have no idea how international politics work don't you?
 
2013-09-12 11:28:50 AM

what_now: Lionel Mandrake: MrBallou: It's Putin who blinked. The GOP propaganda machine is screaming that Putin pulled the rug from under Obama so loudly because they're trying to distract the voters from realizing what actually happened.

Regardless of who blinked, it is interesting that Real Americans are champing at the bit to make Putin look good and Obama look bad.  It used to be that Americans stuck together against Russians.

Chronic, severe ODS at its worst.

Am I the only person who doesn't care if Barack Obama had to wear a pretty pink tutu and dance through the Kremlin if it meant we avoided a war AND stopped the use of chemical weapons?

Seriously- "saving face" is important??  I'd rather save Marines.


Absolutely. Finding a way of not getting embroiled in that Syrian mess while still standing up against the use of chemical weapons was the ideal outcome.

This looks possible now. And we don't have to endure a derpfest in Congress, where the hypocrisy over this issue would have been brain-blowing.

Ignore the knee-jerk political cheerleading and derision. This looks good.
 
2013-09-12 11:29:26 AM

MrBallou: The Stealth Hippopotamus: MrBallou: Putin is Obama biatch.

Putin shows that he can get more countries to do his bidding in one day then we can in weeks and he is our bitach?? How long between Kerry saying that the only way to avoid war was for Assad to give up his weapons (which Mr. Kerry said he would never do) and Assad starting to say he would give up his weapons?? Putin did what our State Department said was impossible!

It was impossible BECAUSE Putin was opposing it. What we had to do was scare him into giving in. The foreign affairs people of this administration is smart enough to get the job done.


Which is what I have been saying the red line speech was actually about.  A message to Putin to get his dog on the most menial of leashes: "keep them from gassing children with weapons you sold them and I think we can all get along".  When Putin threw an absolute FIT after the US started claiming they had evidence that the Syrian military was responsible for the attack, I felt pretty vindicated in that opinion.

Now that Putin's leading the charge, and writing 'scathing' op-eds to American Newspapers, I'm absolutely POSITIVE that he got played.
 
2013-09-12 11:29:30 AM

Fart_Machine: UrukHaiGuyz: Selling arms to and lending political support=being a country's biatch?

Syria is no more Russia's biatch than Israel is ours.

/the polite word is "proxy state"

Well I don't believe Russia has a Syrian lobbying group it has to answer to.


Not how Russia rolls. They forgave several billion dollars of debt in order to establish a naval base in Tartus, Syria, not to mention all the arms they sell there. The Russian oligarchy doesn't even give a crap about most internal lobbying groups.
 
2013-09-12 11:30:06 AM

timujin: Do you actually bother to read the things you link to? The first and third only say Assad didn't "personally order" the strikes. Well, I guess that makes it okay then. And the second one is about a report that wrapped five days before the chemical weapons attack, so it's got nothing to do with your argument.


I know I'm the only one that actually listens to our President but on this Prime time speech he wasn't blaming the government of Syria he was blaming "Assad's chemical weapons personnel" and "Assad's military machine".

cameroncrazy1984: No, the other countries just look more isolationist than ever. Also, why do we need anyone else's help? Obama himself said it's not going to be Iraq part 2. You just want to grab on any possible reason that Obama was unsuccessful in this endeavor, and you're doing a bad job of it.


The President really didn't have time to lay out exactly what he was going to do. But ground forces were/are on the table.

Huff Post. Unless you want to call them right wing
 
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