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(American Thinker)   Why Millennials won't become greedy, angry, bigoted people who yearn for the way America used to be   (americanthinker.com) divider line 106
    More: Obvious, American Thinker, body piercing, anti-Western, Edmund Burke, social liberalism  
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1729 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Sep 2013 at 9:08 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



106 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-12 09:10:58 AM  
What you did there

I see it
 
2013-09-12 09:15:35 AM  
"Well" that "was""hard" to read"."

"Liberal's"
 
2013-09-12 09:17:20 AM  
Ack ack ack.

Didn't realize that was an AT article before I clicked. Bad Peki! Fortunately, I closed my eyes and the tab before any damage could be done.
 
2013-09-12 09:17:23 AM  
I'll take the hit, so nobody else needs to.
**********************
Why Millennials Won't Turn 'Conservative'
By Selwyn Duke

Every so often the wonks of wishful thinking give us an article about how blacks are becoming Republicans, how Hispanics are supposedly a natural GOP constituency, or, as is the subject here today, how the millennial generation is turning "conservative." Perhaps pundits asserting the last thing recall Winston Churchill's observation, "If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain." And perhaps they overlook that it's possible to raise a brainless generation.

Don't think, as one might, that this will be a typical analysis sneering at the proverbial "next generation" using the perceived gold standard of one's own. After all, I realize that my generation is the tree the millennial nut fell from. Placing matters in further perspective, it's true that older and younger generations ever slam each other; it's also true that they both are always partially right. Lastly, I'll say that I don't at all consider the WWII FDR voters the "greatest generation," though it makes for a nice narrative. The greatest generation was the one that founded our nation and wondered if we could "keep" its republic, and there has been a consistent, but accelerating, degeneration ever since.

In discussing our latest movement toward idiocracy, my starting point will be a Sept. 4 American Thinker article written by one Chriss Street. In making his case for millennial hope, Mr. Street points out that while 61 percent of millennials voted for Barack Obama in 2012, his approval among them has now sunk to 46 percent. But this is a deceptive statistic. For an approval rating amounts to the judging of a candidate relative to people's ideal personal standard for the presidency, whereas in an election he is judged relative to another specific candidate for the presidency. And if Obama were again running against Mitt Romney -- with all the usual media propaganda -- does anyone really think he'd lose millennials to the governor? No doubt more would stay home, but I suspect the president would enjoy something close to his 2012 support among those who cast votes.

Moreover, millennials may have soured on Obama somewhat, but this reflects cynicism more than conservatism. Of course, that they'd be cynical is no surprise; they've been raised in an unraveling West in which feckless, morally-confused adults in their homes, schools, government, houses of worship and elsewhere have let them down. Nonetheless, cynicism is not traditionalism; in fact, it is a form of naiveté. Believing all people act out of selfish motives, the cynic instinctively paints everyone with the same brush. And such a person can hardly distinguish well among candidates.

Mr. Street also tells us that, "in 2008, 37.4% of incoming freshman women and 30.5% men identified themselves as liberals or leftists, the most in 35 years." The reality, though, is even worse than this indicates. First consider that self-reporting is more about perception than reality. For starters, it always underestimates leftist numbers, as likely a majority of "moderates" are liberals who -- usually because of self-delusion (a leftist bailiwick) and a desire to sound "reasonable" -- don't brand themselves what they really are; bear in mind when pondering this that liberals are generally solipsistic and fancy that they define the center, and also realize that the label "liberal" has been discredited enough so that many won't don it. Yet even more significant here is that it isn't just people's perceptions that shift -- the definitions of "liberal" and "conservative" do, too.

Consider that while a conservative in 1952 America was staunchly anti-communist, a conservative in the Soviet Union at the time was a communist. And "conservatives" in Western Europe are often our liberals' ideological soulmates. This isn't for lack of truth in political advertising. Rather, it's because the only consistent definition of "conservative" is "a desire to maintain the status quo" while "liberal's" only consistent definition involves a desire to change it. This means "conservatism" is always changing: tomorrow's version will reflect today's liberalism's success in altering the status quo. Conservatism is the caboose to liberalism's locomotive (I treat this in-depth here).

This explains a few things. First, it's often pointed out that a healthy plurality in America describes itself as conservative. Is this surprising? All it really means is that many, many people align themselves with the status quo -- and if this weren't the case, the status quo wouldn't be the status quo. Second, some insist that millennials will move toward conservatism, and this is true in that most people become somewhat more traditional with age. Yet it's also true that conservatism will move toward them.

That is to say, as "conservatism" drifts "left," it follows that millennials will "become more conservative" even if they stay in the same place, in that they will be situated more on the post-shift political spectrum's right side; this is just as how a person can become poorer in a definitional sense if the poverty line standard is altered.

That so few recognize this reflects the relativism of our time, where we label ourselves with provisional terms and measure ourselves against other people (it's people who define the political spectrum). If we want to see matters clearly, however, we must define them differently: in absolute terms.

In other words, what do millennials actually believe? Well, never before has an American generation been so tolerant of intolerable sexual practices, so supportive of faux marriage and skeptical of actual marriage, so relativistic and disconnected from Christianity (church attendance is one of the best predictors of voting habits). Never before has an American generation been to their degree socially "liberal."

This brings us to the claim that millennials are, at least, fiscally conservative. Now, not only is convincing evidence of this elusive, but considering it a saving grace is essentially saying that it profits a man to gain the world but lose his soul. Regardless, however, while the social liberalism/fiscal conservatism marriage may exist in particular cases, I suspect that in principle it is an impossibility.

For instance, speaking of principle versus particular, if you ask people, "Do you believe government should balance its budget and be frugal," of course they'll say yes. But if you ask them if they're willing to relinquish their particular piece of the pie (government college aid?), their tune changes. Espousing fiscal responsibility requires only a voice; achieving it requires virtue.

Second, consider the side-effects of social liberalism in modern times. And this should be prefaced by saying that since this explanation warrants a book, my treatment here will necessarily be lacking. But just as an example, social liberalism means loose sexual mores. Loose sexual mores mean a high rate of single motherhood (today it's 42 percent... and rising). And what does this mean? Since the modern West won't let these women twist in the wind, the government will step into the breach and play daddy with handouts and/or mommy with tax-funded daycare. It is unavoidable.

And in point of fact, this cultural decay brings us to the real reason for political drift. It was something about which the Founding Fathers -- as well as great thinkers throughout Christendom's history -- spoke much. Ben Franklin warned, "As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." British philosopher Edmund Burke observed, "It is written in the eternal constitution of things that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." And John Adams wrote in 1798, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
Question: does "moral and religious" describe us today?

Of course, some will now say, "But why do you think millennials supported Ron Paul? They want liberty!" Sure they do.

So does a tiger in a zoo.

So does a toddler.

Neither, however, can be allowed to roam free in civilization without hurting himself or others. And the less people are civilized growing up, the closer they will be to that infantile or animalistic state -- and the more they have need of cages and masters.

The truth? Government can be no better than the public's virtue, though it can be worse. And this morality-government relationship is evident in voting patterns. Is it a coincidence that every group orthodox Christians label immoral -- those involved in "alternative" sexual deathstyles, criminally inclined inner-city dwellers, effete college professors, grunge-type youths scarred with multiple tattoos and body piercings -- vote left? "What fellowship hath light with darkness?" The darkness hates the light. When people have sins they yearn to rationalize away, the last thing they'll do is support leaders who would uphold, even just through word, a moral standard condemning their passions.

Providing specificity as to how this affects government is another book-worthy topic, so I'll offer just two examples. We've heard about those ruggedly individualistic Americans who'd rather live in poverty in Appalachia than accept government handouts and those spirit-of-entitlement types who protest violently when they don't receive them. And society will always contain both kinds, but the ratio can vary greatly. In a nation characterized by self-sufficiency, honor, and virtue, a redistributionist will find barren ground. But if a spirit of greed, covetousness, and thievery prevails, people will be susceptible to the demagogic appeal, "You've been cheated, but give me power and I'll get you your piece of the pie, comrade!" Or consider lust. If people resolved to be chaste outside of marriage, do you think the abortion movement or taxpayer funded contraception appeal could gain traction?

So how do you make a civilization susceptible to dark demagogues?

Make it love the darkness.

I wouldn't first and foremost spend time on intellectual appeals. As the Soviets once did (as explained by ex-KGB defector Yuri Bezmenov) I'd seek to undermine the morality of the target nation. I'd spread the idea that morality is really "values" and values are relative -- all just a matter of perspective, you see. Once this was accepted and people no longer believed in the rules of morality, it would be as if they ceased believing in the rules of human nutrition: not thinking any food could actually be "bad," they'd be governed only by taste and would try, and could develop an affinity for, anything -- even perhaps poison. Vice corresponds to this on the moral menu.

I'd then get them hooked on their bad moral diet through inundation. Stoke their lust's fires via highly sexualized entertainment, and portray violence as just as casual and cool, so lashing out at others seems the norm. I'd engorge their egos with media messages about how they could determine their own morality so that, as the serpent said, "you will be like God." I'd provide co-ed dorms and a general party atmosphere at universities, creating "occasions of sin" that will ensure the kids have as much as possible they need to justify. And after robbing them of moral judgment and creating a visceral craving for vice, I'd fill their heads full of anti-Western, anti-Christian -- in fact, anti-goodness -- ideas in college classrooms. When I was done with them, they'd not only possess the discernment of a man in the midst of a drug-fueled orgy, their egos would be so bloated they'd consider their ignorance wisdom.

Speaking of wisdom, when conservatives indulge wishful thinking and suppose that millennials will "wake up," they ignore that we actually need a shakeup, something that changes the cultural trajectory on which we've long been (so if an asteroid strikes the Earth, millennials may turn into conservatives -- of course, they instead may turn into cavemen, too). Until then, whatever the keepers of the flame plan had better require the participation of only a zealous minority. For the masses will not wake up when beset by a cultural narcolepsy in which nightmares are fancied nice dreams.
 
2013-09-12 09:18:04 AM  

catsfish: "Well" that "was""hard" to read"."

"Liberal's"


Is that kind of how the sovereign citizens people put random words in all caps?
 
2013-09-12 09:20:00 AM  
I love how these articles start out - shows a little intelligence then turns to full pants-on-the-head crazy.

"social liberalism means loose sexual mores. Loose sexual mores mean a high rate of single motherhood (today it's 42 percent... and rising). And what does this mean? Since the modern West won't let these women twist in the wind, the government will step into the breach and play daddy with handouts and/or mommy with tax-funded daycare."


I know.  That totally sucks that we can't let those promiscuous single mothers "twist in the wind."  They should be punished for their promiscuity I tell you!!


/Oh, and that quote was from the part *before* it got crazy.
 
2013-09-12 09:20:21 AM  
"Consider that while a conservative in 1952 America was staunchly anti-communist, a conservative in the Soviet Union at the time was a communist. And "conservatives" in Western Europe are often our liberals' ideological soulmates. This isn't for lack of truth in political advertising. Rather, it's because the only consistent definition of "conservative" is "a desire to maintain the status quo" while "liberal's" only consistent definition involves a desire to change it. This means "conservatism" is always changing: tomorrow's version will reflect today's liberalism's success in altering the status quo. Conservatism is the caboose to liberalism's locomotive."

Hey, American Thinker writer, that's actually a pretty reasonable definition of conservative (that's actually a pretty piss poor definition of liberal if you're trying to create a universal one, but, whatever). And by that definition, most self-described moderates and many self-describes liberals are, in fact, conservatives because they want to maintain the status quo, aka the New Deal state. And very, very few self-described "conservatives" are. Rather, they are mostly radical reactionaries who want to create a system in the United States radically different than anything that has ever existed. Of course, you won't see that because thinking is not a major prerequisite for writing on American Thinker.
 
2013-09-12 09:21:28 AM  
When noting that your own generation isn't perfect "we're the ones who raised these total wankers" probably isn't the bone you should throw.

In fact, that's really just another dig.
 
2013-09-12 09:21:44 AM  
Nonetheless, cynicism is not traditionalism; in fact,it is a form of naiveté. Believing all people act out of selfish motives, the cynic instinctively paints everyone with the same brush.

Is that why conservatives are always telling me tales about Welfare Queens and Godless Communist Liberals?
 
2013-09-12 09:23:02 AM  
Comparing Millennials simultaneously to toddlers and to tigers? Nice touch of mixed contempt and fear.
 
2013-09-12 09:23:42 AM  
How can you have a constant AND accelerating degeneration?
 
2013-09-12 09:24:04 AM  

Vertdang: I'll take the hit, so nobody else needs to.
**********************


Thanks!
 
2013-09-12 09:24:19 AM  
You know I actually read (skimmed) much of that article, and it was, actually, not as stupid as I had expected. It was actually fairly logical and made a lot of sense, if you accept his assumptions. Unfortunately, to accept his assumptions, you would have to either be a lunatic or a time traveler from the 18th c.
 
2013-09-12 09:24:56 AM  

UberDave: I love how these articles start out - shows a little intelligence then turns to full pants-on-the-head crazy.

"social liberalism means loose sexual mores. Loose sexual mores mean a high rate of single motherhood (today it's 42 percent... and rising). And what does this mean? Since the modern West won't let these women twist in the wind, the government will step into the breach and play daddy with handouts and/or mommy with tax-funded daycare."


I know.  That totally sucks that we can't let those promiscuous single mothers "twist in the wind."  They should be punished for their promiscuity I tell you!!


And defund Planned Parenthood.
 
2013-09-12 09:25:22 AM  

abb3w: Comparing Millennials simultaneously to toddlers and to tigers? Nice touch of mixed contempt and fear.


Fear and comtempt are the only thing religous fanatics know. It is why they are fanatics/zealots, not your everyday run of the mill believer. You know, someone with better things to worry about than who is sticking what into whom.
 
2013-09-12 09:30:14 AM  
Ah yes, the tried and true conservative method of appealing to various groups... insulting them.
 
2013-09-12 09:30:54 AM  
"Lastly, I'll say that I don't at all consider the WWII FDR voters the 'greatest generation,'"

That's because he still remembers them as those whippersnappers listing to immoral 'negro music', smoking the reefer, and lighting bags of dog crap on his porch.
 
2013-09-12 09:31:05 AM  
First, thank you vertdang for the copy pasta.

That was a lotta derp for before coffee, but my takeaway with this is that millennials will never be conservative because they enjoy too much filthy sinning, and government handouts.

That was a lotta butthurt.
 
2013-09-12 09:31:08 AM  
Yeah, it actually started out with a modicum of self-awareness with the "conservative is a relative term" bit, but by this point it had devolved into a spittle-flecked fever dream:

The truth? Government can be no better than the public's virtue, though it can be worse. And this morality-government relationship is evident in voting patterns. Is it a coincidence that every group orthodox Christians label immoral -- those involved in "alternative" sexual deathstyles, criminally inclined inner-city dwellers, effete college professors, grunge-type youths scarred with multiple tattoos and body piercings -- vote left? "What fellowship hath light with darkness?" The darkness hates the light. When people have sins they yearn to rationalize away, the last thing they'll do is support leaders who would uphold, even just through word, a moral standard condemning their passions.
 
2013-09-12 09:33:08 AM  
Right. Just like the Woodstock generation aren't now old, greedy, and conservative.
 
2013-09-12 09:34:10 AM  
Well, that was some weapons grade derp.
 
2013-09-12 09:34:34 AM  

YodaTuna: Ah yes, the tried and true conservative method of appealing to various groups... insulting them.


Like tough love - berate your kid long enough, and eventually they start craving your approval.

Or sour grapes - "You won't vote for us? Well, you're amoral, too accepting, too coddled, greedy, tatted- and tarted-up, reactionary know-nothings anyway, so WE DON'T NEED YOU!"
 
2013-09-12 09:36:03 AM  

UberDave: I love how these articles start out - shows a little intelligence then turns to full pants-on-the-head crazy.

"social liberalism means loose sexual mores. Loose sexual mores mean a high rate of single motherhood (today it's 42 percent... and rising). And what does this mean? Since the modern West won't let these women twist in the wind, the government will step into the breach and play daddy with handouts and/or mommy with tax-funded daycare."


I know.  That totally sucks that we can't let those promiscuous single mothers "twist in the wind."  They should be punished for their promiscuity I tell you!!


/Oh, and that quote was from the part *before* it got crazy.


Most importantly, the children should definitely be punished for the sins of their parents.
 
2013-09-12 09:37:20 AM  
The greatest generation was the one that founded our nation and wondered if we could keep its republic, and there has been a consistent, but accelerating, degeneration ever since.

This is the conservative view of history in a nutshell.  Everything is gradually going to shiat as compared to some idealized point in the past (that never really existed), and so everything they do is a desperate rearguard action to go back to that imaginary past, or failing that, at least keep the status quo.

The progressive view is the complete opposite.  History is a series of steps towards greater human equality and standard of living.  The Enlightenment, abolition of slavery, women's suffrage, the Civil Rights movement, marriage equality, all being seen as steps on this path.

Both views are oversimplification, but obviously I feel that the progressive view is a closer representation of reality.
 
2013-09-12 09:38:02 AM  
You.  I learned it from you.
i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-09-12 09:38:56 AM  
And perhaps they overlook that it's possible to raise a brainless generation.

If there's one thing that will show millennials the virtues of conservatism it's calling them stupid.
 
2013-09-12 09:38:56 AM  
If we want to see matters clearly, however, we must define them differently: in absolute terms.

And this is why conservatives will continue to lose ground in national elections. You do not have the ability to define things in absolute terms and when you try, you are essentially saying "fark you" to everyone who does not agree with your absolutes. Absolutes result in extremism and radicalism. Government needs pragmatism. Conservatives who define their positions in terms of absolutes can all DIAF.
 
2013-09-12 09:41:35 AM  
Yikes. It started off well enough with facts, but the "people need to be controlled" thing gives me chills.  I can't believe there are really people that sill think like that.
 
2013-09-12 09:41:59 AM  

johnnieconnie: First, thank you vertdang for the copy pasta.

That was a lotta derp for before coffee, but my takeaway with this is that millennials will never be conservative because they enjoy too much filthy sinning, and government handouts.

That was a lotta butthurt.


Plus, for Millennials, Republicans serve as an object lesson of what happens when you become an American 'conservative'.
 
2013-09-12 09:43:17 AM  
Is it a coincidence that every group orthodox Christians label immoral -- those involved in "alternative" sexual deathstyles, criminally inclined inner-city dwellers, effete college professors, grunge-type youths scarred with multiple tattoos and body piercings -- vote left? "What fellowship hath light with darkness?" The darkness hates the light. When people have sins they yearn to rationalize away, the last thing they'll do is support leaders who would uphold, even just through word, a moral standard condemning their passions.

Wow.
 
2013-09-12 09:46:00 AM  
Wow, I guess "American Thinker" is apt for that website.  Nothing seems to be based on external facts or evidence.  It's all just thought experiments with bad premises, sloppy "logic", and really bad hypotheses.

He's right, overall, millennials won't become conservative, but it's not for the reasons he suggests.
 
2013-09-12 09:46:15 AM  

spcMike: How can you have a constant AND accelerating degeneration?


The Author didn't make sense throughout the entire piece, why start there?
 
2013-09-12 09:48:50 AM  

theknuckler_33: If we want to see matters clearly, however, we must define them differently: in absolute terms.

And this is why conservatives will continue to lose ground in national elections. You do not have the ability to define things in absolute terms and when you try, you are essentially saying "fark you" to everyone who does not agree with your absolutes. Absolutes result in extremism and radicalism. Government needs pragmatism. Conservatives who define their positions in terms of absolutes can all DIAF.



Pretty much, except they *are* free to define things however they feel like. They just can't expect anyone else to buy into their definitions just because.
 
2013-09-12 09:49:03 AM  
So how do you make a civilization susceptible to dark demagogues?

Make it love the darkness.


We get it. He's black.
 
2013-09-12 09:49:27 AM  

theknuckler_33: Is it a coincidence that every group orthodox Christians label immoral -- those involved in "alternative" sexual deathstyles, criminally inclined inner-city dwellers, effete college professors, grunge-type youths scarred with multiple tattoos and body piercings -- vote left? "What fellowship hath light with darkness?" The darkness hates the light. When people have sins they yearn to rationalize away, the last thing they'll do is support leaders who would uphold, even just through word, a moral standard condemning their passions.

Wow.


QFT.
 
2013-09-12 09:49:41 AM  
I consider myself more Gen Y than Millennial, since I can barely remember life without computers at home and the internet. That means I was also old enough to have some idea of what was going on politically after 9/11, and while I supported it at the time, came to see what a disasterous decade of Republican rule the oughties were after a good few years. The GOP and neoconservatives took full cynical advantage of how farked in the head this country was after 9/11 and used it to take this country to the precipice of fascism, they took us the full way to disaster when it came to starting the war in Iraq and their stewardship of the economy.

I may not always pull the lever for a Democrat when I vote, but I will never vote for a Republican for the rest of my life unless they fundamentally reevaluate their economic platform and throw out their hateful base of ignorant backwoods Bible bumpkins. The opposite is actually occurring.
 
2013-09-12 09:49:55 AM  

Vertdang: I'll take the hit, so nobody else needs to.

[snip]


I can summarize it as follows: modern morality sucks because it's different than "traditional" morality, whatever the fark that means.
 
2013-09-12 09:51:39 AM  

UberDave: I love how these articles start out - shows a little intelligence then turns to full pants-on-the-head crazy.

"social liberalism means loose sexual mores. Loose sexual mores mean a high rate of single motherhood (today it's 42 percent... and rising). And what does this mean? Since the modern West won't let these women twist in the wind, the government will step into the breach and play daddy with handouts and/or mommy with tax-funded daycare."


I know.  That totally sucks that we can't let those promiscuous single mothers "twist in the wind."  They should be punished for their promiscuity I tell you!!


/Oh, and that quote was from the part *before* it got crazy.


he lost me at "its possible to raise a brainless generation"
 
2013-09-12 09:52:19 AM  
That was probably the best sales pitch for contempt, fear, and moral superiority that I have read in awhile.

Considering the audience it was meant for, I would have to give it a 9/10.
 
2013-09-12 09:53:10 AM  
Hey, Stupid, vote for me!  No?  Fine, I don't need your vote anyways, Stupid!
 
2013-09-12 09:54:12 AM  
Is it a coincidence that every group orthodox Christians label immoral -- those involved in "alternative" sexual deathstyles, criminally inclined inner-city dwellers, effete college professors, grunge-type youths scarred with multiple tattoos and body piercings -- vote left?

"Is it a coincidence that all the people we regularly demean and oppress turn around and want nothing to do with us?"
 
2013-09-12 09:55:32 AM  

phaseolus: theknuckler_33: If we want to see matters clearly, however, we must define them differently: in absolute terms.

And this is why conservatives will continue to lose ground in national elections. You do not have the ability to define things in absolute terms and when you try, you are essentially saying "fark you" to everyone who does not agree with your absolutes. Absolutes result in extremism and radicalism. Government needs pragmatism. Conservatives who define their positions in terms of absolutes can all DIAF.


Pretty much, except they *are* free to define things however they feel like. They just can't expect anyone else to buy into their definitions just because.


But that's the point. They use 'absolutes' in the same way as 'beyond question' or 'universal truth'... there is no such thing as 'buying into' these things for them, they just are.

Such things do not exist and, try as they might, they are not defining absolutes, they are just trying to tell other people how to live their lives and when people inevitably balk at that, the absolutist (for lack of a better word) can feel superior by telling them they're wrong.
 
2013-09-12 09:55:51 AM  
So now the GOP can move beyond just writing off outreach to minorities and women to include an entire generation as well. Please proceed.
 
2013-09-12 09:57:37 AM  

cubic_spleen: johnnieconnie: First, thank you vertdang for the copy pasta.

That was a lotta derp for before coffee, but my takeaway with this is that millennials will never be conservative because they enjoy too much filthy sinning, and government handouts.

That was a lotta butthurt.

Plus, for Millennials, Republicans serve as an object lesson of what happens when you become an American 'conservative'.


At first I thought that he was going to make a potentially reasonable argument that the younger generation was no longer going to forgive the politicians for their idiot statements, like anti-gay, or anti-minority, and vote for them anyway (like Log Cabin Republicans). However, it soon became clear that his point was that the younger generations have descended into hedonistic, sinning hell, and are in danger of being lost forever for embracing single motherhood (instead of having evil abortions, amiright?), teh ghey, and miscegenation, etc.

That was a lot of spewing about sinful activities...hmmm.
 
2013-09-12 09:58:31 AM  

Zeno-25: I consider myself more Gen Y than Millennial, since I can barely remember life without computers at home and the internet. That means I was also old enough to have some idea of what was going on politically after 9/11, and while I supported it at the time, came to see what a disasterous decade of Republican rule the oughties were after a good few years. The GOP and neoconservatives took full cynical advantage of how farked in the head this country was after 9/11 and used it to take this country to the precipice of fascism, they took us the full way to disaster when it came to starting the war in Iraq and their stewardship of the economy.

I may not always pull the lever for a Democrat when I vote, but I will never vote for a Republican for the rest of my life unless they fundamentally reevaluate their economic platform and throw out their hateful base of ignorant backwoods Bible bumpkins. The opposite is actually occurring.


They did away with Generation Y and lumped them in with the Millennials.  I'm on the upper end of that label and have little in common with the majority of it other than being raised in the technology age.  There seems to be a gap from those born in the mid-80s that really doesn't belong to X or the Millennials.

/yolo
//or something
 
2013-09-12 09:58:33 AM  

Serious Black: Vertdang: I'll take the hit, so nobody else needs to.

[snip]

I can summarize it as follows: modern morality sucks because it's different than "traditional" morality, whatever the fark that means.


And US 'culture' = Christianity, so if you say "meh" about teh gheys, you hate traditional marriage and are destroying the country.
 
2013-09-12 10:01:48 AM  
that's right: they will become greedy, angry bigoted people for their OWN reasons, dammit.

/american way
 
2013-09-12 10:02:22 AM  

theknuckler_33: phaseolus: theknuckler_33: If we want to see matters clearly, however, we must define them differently: in absolute terms.

And this is why conservatives will continue to lose ground in national elections. You do not have the ability to define things in absolute terms and when you try, you are essentially saying "fark you" to everyone who does not agree with your absolutes. Absolutes result in extremism and radicalism. Government needs pragmatism. Conservatives who define their positions in terms of absolutes can all DIAF.


Pretty much, except they *are* free to define things however they feel like. They just can't expect anyone else to buy into their definitions just because.

But that's the point. They use 'absolutes' in the same way as 'beyond question' or 'universal truth'... there is no such thing as 'buying into' these things for them, they just are.

Such things do not exist and, try as they might, they are not defining absolutes, they are just trying to tell other people how to live their lives and when people inevitably balk at that, the absolutist (for lack of a better word) can feel superior by telling them they're wrong.


It also ignores that we have adopted some fairly absolutist rules in morality today. Example: consent to sexual activity. If person X does not consent to person Y, say, grabbing their ass, then it would be unequivocally wrong for X to grab Y's ass outside of ludicrous scenarios like grabbing Y's ass is the singular way to stop nuclear armageddon. The problem is consent empowers people to dictate for themselves what is acceptable and what isn't instead of leaving that split up to a likely non-existent higher power. Bible thumpers for the most part do not want people to take charge of their own lives.
 
2013-09-12 10:03:26 AM  
An entire article complaining about people who choose to live their lives differently from the typical member of the Party of Small Government, using those choices to argue that liberty and freedom are dangerous when enjoyed by those other people.

Proto-fascism, par for the course for the current GOP.
 
2013-09-12 10:03:47 AM  
I see what you did there subby. Using code words for those whom you despise.

label immoral -- those involved in "alternative" sexual deathstyles, criminally inclined inner-city dwellers, effete college professors, grunge-type youths scarred with multiple tattoos and body piercings

I.E.- Gays, Blacks, Educated Intellectuals, and anybody else who does not fit your version of wholesome Real America.

Seriously not a good idea to insult a generation that you need to win future elections.
Our generation tends to be more socially liberal because we have been exposed to so much from such a young age. Lots of us have black friends or know a gay person. We interact with people outside our own peer groups. And because a lot of us went to college, many people meet different groups of folks. And after hanging out with them, you discover they are not bad people and generally want the same things you do: a steady job and the hope of a stable future. It really bothers some in that older generation because they were taught that "those folks" are bad and immoral. I have a good feeling that with the right conditions and a few people stepping up that my generation may one day be considered a Hero Generation. We can do better and we will.
 
2013-09-12 10:03:47 AM  
eiger
You know I actually read (skimmed) much of that article, and it was, actually, not as stupid as I had expected. It was actually fairly logical and made a lot of sense, if you accept his assumptions. Unfortunately, to accept his assumptions, you would have to either be a lunatic or a time traveler from the 18th c.

I found it interesting that he was describing almost exactly the opposite of reality. "You've been cheated, but give me power and I'll get you your piece of the pie, comrade!" perfectly encapsulates the Nazi propaganda of the early 1930s. As does his assertion that a society that has gone morally astray needs to be forcibly dragged back onto the 'right' path by a parental authority. I've been seeing this argument pop up disturbingly frequently lately. I wonder how many of them are fully cognizant of what they're pushing? And for how long they have been? Do they use that argument to justify, for example, gerrymandering and election rigging?


Doc Daneeka
This is the conservative view of history in a nutshell. Everything is gradually going to shiat as compared to some idealized point in the past (that never really existed), and so everything they do is a desperate rearguard action to go back to that imaginary past, or failing that, at least keep the status quo.

+1
There's a term for the belief that there was once a golden era and everything since then has been corrupted, but I forgot what it is.


Mercutio74
He's right, overall, millennials won't become conservative, but it's not for the reasons he suggests.

Those reasons are "if you ask them if they're willing to relinquish their particular piece of the pie (government college aid?), their tune changes" and "the modern West won't let (single mothers) twist in the wind". So really nothing new over the "welfare mothers" canard, although he did tart it up a bit.
 
2013-09-12 10:06:27 AM  

Fart_Machine: So now the GOP can move beyond just writing off outreach to minorities and women to include an entire generation as well. Please proceed.


It's OK - the GOP has already diagnosed their problem with the previous election, and come up with the solution.  They just need to increase turnout among old, white, straight, Christian males.

That's surely the key to future electoral success.

Well, that, plus gerrymandering and voter suppression laws.
 
2013-09-12 10:09:01 AM  
God that article was horribly written; just long-winded without any direction.
 
2013-09-12 10:09:02 AM  
crazydave023
Seriously not a good idea to insult a generation that you need to win future elections.

Their strategy seems to be disenfranchisement of those groups. So actually they don't need us.
 
2013-09-12 10:09:29 AM  

johnnieconnie: At first I thought that he was going to make a potentially reasonable argument that the younger generation was no longer going to forgive the politicians for their idiot statements, like anti-gay, or anti-minority, and vote for them anyway (like Log Cabin Republicans). However, it soon became clear that his point was that the younger generations have descended into hedonistic, sinning hell, and are in danger of being lost forever for embracing single motherhood (instead of having evil abortions, amiright?), teh ghey, and miscegenation, etc.


What you thought he was going to do and what he did are the same thing. The only difference is perception.
 
2013-09-12 10:10:26 AM  

spcMike: How can you have a constant AND accelerating degeneration?


He might have been using the "continuous" definition of constant.

UberDave: I love how these articles start out - shows a little intelligence then turns to full pants-on-the-head crazy.


You know how you can think yourself angrier? I think the author was writing themselves angrier as it went on.
 
2013-09-12 10:13:41 AM  

johnnieconnie: At first I thought that he was going to make a potentially reasonable argument that the younger generation was no longer going to forgive the politicians for their idiot statements, like anti-gay, or anti-minority, and vote for them anyway (like Log Cabin Republicans). However, it soon became clear that his point was that the younger generations have descended into hedonistic, sinning hell, and are in danger of being lost forever for embracing single motherhood (instead of having evil abortions, amiright?), teh ghey, and miscegenation, etc.


If Republicans really want to stop abortion, they can do one of two things:

1) Lower the cost (to zero for some people) of long-lasting birth control like IUDs that have been proven to dramatically reduce the rate of unintended pregnancies and abortions.
2) Raise the pay of people in poverty since richer people have been proven to have dramatically reduced rates of unintended pregnancies and abortions, almost certainly because they can afford long-lasting birth control like IUDs.
 
2013-09-12 10:14:07 AM  
Yup, it's the kids' fault, and their terrible, awful, no-good parents that the party is becoming more and more irrelevant to young voters. Yup. Totally their fault...
 
2013-09-12 10:15:29 AM  

TheDarkSaintOfGin: Zeno-25: I consider myself more Gen Y than Millennial, since I can barely remember life without computers at home and the internet. That means I was also old enough to have some idea of what was going on politically after 9/11, and while I supported it at the time, came to see what a disasterous decade of Republican rule the oughties were after a good few years. The GOP and neoconservatives took full cynical advantage of how farked in the head this country was after 9/11 and used it to take this country to the precipice of fascism, they took us the full way to disaster when it came to starting the war in Iraq and their stewardship of the economy.

I may not always pull the lever for a Democrat when I vote, but I will never vote for a Republican for the rest of my life unless they fundamentally reevaluate their economic platform and throw out their hateful base of ignorant backwoods Bible bumpkins. The opposite is actually occurring.

They did away with Generation Y and lumped them in with the Millennials.  I'm on the upper end of that label and have little in common with the majority of it other than being raised in the technology age.  There seems to be a gap from those born in the mid-80s that really doesn't belong to X or the Millennials.

/yolo
//or something


Yeah, it is weird. All I know is that I feel like I have more in common with someone born in the 70s than I do with someone that has seen cell phones and AOL since day one, if that makes sense. Anecdotally, other people my age have expressed this sentiment.
 
2013-09-12 10:18:33 AM  

Serious Black: johnnieconnie: At first I thought that he was going to make a potentially reasonable argument that the younger generation was no longer going to forgive the politicians for their idiot statements, like anti-gay, or anti-minority, and vote for them anyway (like Log Cabin Republicans). However, it soon became clear that his point was that the younger generations have descended into hedonistic, sinning hell, and are in danger of being lost forever for embracing single motherhood (instead of having evil abortions, amiright?), teh ghey, and miscegenation, etc.

If Republicans really want to stop abortion, they can do one of two things:

1) Lower the cost (to zero for some people) of long-lasting birth control like IUDs that have been proven to dramatically reduce the rate of unintended pregnancies and abortions.
2) Raise the pay of people in poverty since richer people have been proven to have dramatically reduced rates of unintended pregnancies and abortions, almost certainly because they can afford long-lasting birth control like IUDs.


They would also support sex education in public schools (not abstinence-only education) which has been proven effective at lowering teen pregnancy rates.

Of course, Republicans won't do any of these things that are actually effective at reducing the number of abortions.  Because they don't really give a shiat about "the sanctity of life" of an embryo.  What matters is punishing women for having sex.
 
2013-09-12 10:18:44 AM  
Good outreach rightwingers, keep calling peopl that don't agree with you "idiots" and keep attacking them. See how that works out for you.
 
2013-09-12 10:22:23 AM  

YodaTuna: Ah yes, the tried and true conservative method of appealing to various groups... insulting them.


Doc Daneeka: This is the conservative view of history in a nutshell. Everything is gradually going to shiat as compared to some idealized point in the past (that never really existed), and so everything they do is a desperate rearguard action to go back to that imaginary past, or failing that, at least keep the status quo.


Mercutio74: Wow, I guess "American Thinker" is apt for that website.  Nothing seems to be based on external facts or evidence.  It's all just thought experiments with bad premises, sloppy "logic", and really bad hypotheses.

He's right, overall, millennials won't become conservative, but it's not for the reasons he suggests.


Fast Moon: Is it a coincidence that every group orthodox Christians label immoral -- those involved in "alternative" sexual deathstyles, criminally inclined inner-city dwellers, effete college professors, grunge-type youths scarred with multiple tattoos and body piercings -- vote left?

"Is it a coincidence that all the people we regularly demean and oppress turn around and want nothing to do with us?"


These things.

Also, bolded for lol. Is that a new thing? Deathstyles, cuz buttsex is icky?
 
2013-09-12 10:23:28 AM  
I have never heard the phrase "alternative sexual deathstlyes" before, but dibs on that as a band name.  Perhaps for after the "and the"....

/NHL88 & the Alternative Sexual Deathstyles live in concert
 
2013-09-12 10:27:53 AM  

Zeno-25: TheDarkSaintOfGin: Zeno-25: I consider myself more Gen Y than Millennial, since I can barely remember life without computers at home and the internet. That means I was also old enough to have some idea of what was going on politically after 9/11, and while I supported it at the time, came to see what a disasterous decade of Republican rule the oughties were after a good few years. The GOP and neoconservatives took full cynical advantage of how farked in the head this country was after 9/11 and used it to take this country to the precipice of fascism, they took us the full way to disaster when it came to starting the war in Iraq and their stewardship of the economy.

I may not always pull the lever for a Democrat when I vote, but I will never vote for a Republican for the rest of my life unless they fundamentally reevaluate their economic platform and throw out their hateful base of ignorant backwoods Bible bumpkins. The opposite is actually occurring.

They did away with Generation Y and lumped them in with the Millennials.  I'm on the upper end of that label and have little in common with the majority of it other than being raised in the technology age.  There seems to be a gap from those born in the mid-80s that really doesn't belong to X or the Millennials.

/yolo
//or something

Yeah, it is weird. All I know is that I feel like I have more in common with someone born in the 70s than I do with someone that has seen cell phones and AOL since day one, if that makes sense. Anecdotally, other people my age have expressed this sentiment.


Same boat here, just about all my lasting friends are 70s children.
 
2013-09-12 10:31:09 AM  

Serious Black: johnnieconnie: At first I thought that he was going to make a potentially reasonable argument that the younger generation was no longer going to forgive the politicians for their idiot statements, like anti-gay, or anti-minority, and vote for them anyway (like Log Cabin Republicans). However, it soon became clear that his point was that the younger generations have descended into hedonistic, sinning hell, and are in danger of being lost forever for embracing single motherhood (instead of having evil abortions, amiright?), teh ghey, and miscegenation, etc.

If Republicans really want to stop abortion, they can do one of two things:

1) Lower the cost (to zero for some people) of long-lasting birth control like IUDs that have been proven to dramatically reduce the rate of unintended pregnancies and abortions.
2) Raise the pay of people in poverty since richer people have been proven to have dramatically reduced rates of unintended pregnancies and abortions, almost certainly because they can afford long-lasting birth control like IUDs.


Yes, but that would be soshalisms, and also encourage young people to have more sex, and that would be bad, or something.

My mother told me a long time ago that the greatest invention of the 20th century was reliable birth control for women (she's old enough to remember when women had no choices). Oral contraceptives gave them freedom like they never had before and control over their own bodies. This obviously scares the crap out of a certain demographic, because they certainly are trying hard to both eliminate abortions, and easy/cheap access to women's birth control and health care. What better way to keep them barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen like the good ol' days?
 
2013-09-12 10:37:08 AM  

TheDarkSaintOfGin: Zeno-25: TheDarkSaintOfGin: Zeno-25:

They did away with Generation Y and lumped them in with the Millennials.  I'm on the upper end of that label and have little in common with the majority of it other than being raised in the technology age.  There seems to be a gap from those born in the mid-80s that really doesn't belong to X or the Millennials.


You should read through the Generations listing on this website. They divide them all up in a more nuanced way. For example, my generation is a Reconstructionist (1964-73), not Generation X (Original Gen Xers, 1954-1963).

It's an interesting read-through and connects more with culture than the typical Generations discussions, which seem to focus on business-y things.
 
2013-09-12 10:39:33 AM  
grumpfuff
Also, bolded for lol. Is that a new thing? Deathstyles, cuz buttsex is icky?

Not that it really matters, but I'm pretty sure the logic is that if you're teh ghey then you're turning your back on God and you're going to Hell which is death. Or something, I don't know, it's all crazy.
 
2013-09-12 10:40:12 AM  

Serious Black: theknuckler_33: phaseolus: theknuckler_33: If we want to see matters clearly, however, we must define them differently: in absolute terms.

And this is why conservatives will continue to lose ground in national elections. You do not have the ability to define things in absolute terms and when you try, you are essentially saying "fark you" to everyone who does not agree with your absolutes. Absolutes result in extremism and radicalism. Government needs pragmatism. Conservatives who define their positions in terms of absolutes can all DIAF.


Pretty much, except they *are* free to define things however they feel like. They just can't expect anyone else to buy into their definitions just because.

But that's the point. They use 'absolutes' in the same way as 'beyond question' or 'universal truth'... there is no such thing as 'buying into' these things for them, they just are.

Such things do not exist and, try as they might, they are not defining absolutes, they are just trying to tell other people how to live their lives and when people inevitably balk at that, the absolutist (for lack of a better word) can feel superior by telling them they're wrong.

It also ignores that we have adopted some fairly absolutist rules in morality today. Example: consent to sexual activity. If person X does not consent to person Y, say, grabbing their ass, then it would be unequivocally wrong for X to grab Y's ass outside of ludicrous scenarios like grabbing Y's ass is the singular way to stop nuclear armageddon. The problem is consent empowers people to dictate for themselves what is acceptable and what isn't instead of leaving that split up to a likely non-existent higher power. Bible thumpers for the most part do not want people to take charge of their own lives.


Well said.

/Tried the "I was just trying to stop nuclear armageddon!" excuse once
//didn't work
 
2013-09-12 10:51:18 AM  

grumpfuff: Also, bolded for lol. Is that a new thing? Deathstyles, cuz buttsex is icky?


I can't help but picture "deathstyling" as some extreme sport where someone jumps out of an airplane with a boogie board but without a parachute.
 
2013-09-12 10:54:33 AM  
Wow this guy thinks pretty highly of himself.
 
2013-09-12 10:56:13 AM  
Is it a coincidence that every group rabidly bigoted false Christians label immoral -- homos, darkies, smart types, and other darkies -- vote left?

Fixed it for him.
 
2013-09-12 11:05:37 AM  

grumpfuff: Also, bolded for lol. Is that a new thing? Deathstyles, cuz buttsex is icky?


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-09-12 11:07:10 AM  
The greatest generation was the one that founded our nation and wondered if we could "keep" its republic, and there has been a consistent, but accelerating, degeneration ever since.

That's what we call failing. When a grand idea does not survive implementation and starts crumbling from the day it was put in place, that is a failed idea.

Or perhaps you have a very distorted view of what the founders were about.
 
2013-09-12 11:08:32 AM  
Given this guy's appeal to 'Christian morality', I suspect the mere MENTION of the United Church of Christ (assuming he bothers to know what it is) would make him froth with rage and spittle.
 
2013-09-12 11:09:32 AM  

born_yesterday: grumpfuff: Also, bolded for lol. Is that a new thing? Deathstyles, cuz buttsex is icky?

I can't help but picture "deathstyling" as some extreme sport where someone jumps out of an airplane with a boogie board but without a parachute.


The funny part is, when I read the first half of that, I pictured deathstyling as Deathklok's hair stylist or something.
 
2013-09-12 11:11:52 AM  
What 'millenial' would want to conserve a generation of greedy plutocrats who are pillaging the nation for their own benefit?
 
2013-09-12 11:12:16 AM  

theknuckler_33: /Tried the "I was just trying to stop nuclear armageddon!" excuse once
//didn't work


Yeah, it didn't work for me either. I learned my lesson good and fast. Now if only I could find my severed penis...
 
2013-09-12 11:12:50 AM  

NHL88: I have never heard the phrase "alternative sexual deathstlyes" before, but dibs on that as a band name.  Perhaps for after the "and the"....

/NHL88 & the Alternative Sexual Deathstyles live in concert



You know, there are worse ways to go, but I can't think of a more undignified way than autoerotic asphyxiation.
 
2013-09-12 11:16:55 AM  
My next band/album will absolutely be called "Alternative Sexual Deathstyles." Thanks, crazy AT loon!
 
2013-09-12 11:31:05 AM  

Zeno-25: I may not always pull the lever for a Democrat when I vote, but I will never vote for a Republican for the rest of my life unless they fundamentally reevaluate their economic platform and throw out their hateful base of ignorant backwoods Bible bumpkins. The opposite is actually occurring.


I know it's cliche to throw around the word RINO, but I have voted for Republicans in the last few election cycles. Specifically, I voted for my (now former) state representative who effectively was a RINO. He voted against new abortion regulations that would have threatened the state medical center's accreditation and probably closed down all of the abortion clinics in the state. He voted against redistricting maps that were blatantly partisan attempts to consolidate GOP gains. He supported opening a state insurance exchange and expanding Medicaid. I had no qualms about voting for him, and if I were still in his district, I probably would vote for him again.

He's pretty much the only Republican I could ever see myself voting for in the future though.
 
2013-09-12 11:48:47 AM  
 Lastly, I'll say that I don't at all consider the WWII FDR voters the "greatest generation," though it makes for a nice narrative. The greatest generation was the one that founded our nation and wondered if we could "keep" its republic, and there has been a consistent, but accelerating, degeneration ever since.

The author hates Reagan!1!!
 
2013-09-12 11:54:19 AM  

eiger: You know I actually read (skimmed) much of that article, and it was, actually, not as stupid as I had expected. It was actually fairly logical and made a lot of sense, if you accept his assumptions. Unfortunately, to accept his assumptions, you would have to either be a lunatic or a time traveler from the 18th c.


Why not both?

www.csmonitor.com
 
2013-09-12 11:59:06 AM  
FTFA:  Well, never before has an American generation been so tolerant of intolerable sexual practices, so supportive of faux marriage and skeptical of actual marriage, so relativistic and disconnected from Christianity (church attendance is one of the best predictors of voting habits). Never before has an American generation been to their degree socially "liberal."

What might those intolerable sexual practices be?  I mean, I have a feeling I know what you're talking about, but why not go out and say it?  Are you worried someone might think you're a bigot?  Don't worry, your thinly veiled contempt doesn't leave much doubt to begin with.

Personally, I'm 100% in favor of real marriage being available for everyone regardless of sexual orientation.  I'd define the current status-quo in many areas that forces gay couples into 'civil unions' to be more akin to 'faux marriage'.  Let's give them the right to a real marriage just like everyone else.
 
2013-09-12 12:01:52 PM  

theknuckler_33: Is it a coincidence that every group orthodox Christians label immoral -- those involved in "alternative" sexual deathstyles, criminally inclined inner-city dwellers, effete college professors, grunge-type youths scarred with multiple tattoos and body piercings -- vote left? "What fellowship hath light with darkness?" The darkness hates the light. When people have sins they yearn to rationalize away, the last thing they'll do is support leaders who would uphold, even just through word, a moral standard condemning their passions.

Wow.


This guy is writing about the youth of today and he thinks that grunge is the cool style? Has he even bothered to pay attention to the nation's youth since Cobain's buckshot OD?

And, of course, it all comes down to religious based morality and wishing to condemn others for their sins. The elements within the modern right that want to turn the US into a Christian theocracy are gaining far too much sway in the GOP. The GOP has painted itself into a corner: it needs the fundie vote in order to win, yet any attempts to broader their appeal will isolate them from the fundies. Of course, it's all libs fault that the GOP didn't retake the Senate in 2010 and 2012 and Romney didn't win.

"Damn those criminally inclined city-dwellers who, in between smashing out car windows, raping white women, and cashing welfare checks for their 17 kids, also vote straight D every election!!1"
 
2013-09-12 12:05:57 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: eiger: You know I actually read (skimmed) much of that article, and it was, actually, not as stupid as I had expected. It was actually fairly logical and made a lot of sense, if you accept his assumptions. Unfortunately, to accept his assumptions, you would have to either be a lunatic or a time traveler from the 18th c.

Why not both?


I thought the funny part was the article spelled this out like it is a bad thing as if somehow the current GOP platform is viable in a multicultural society.
 
2013-09-12 12:11:26 PM  

Zeno-25: TheDarkSaintOfGin: Zeno-25: I consider myself more Gen Y than Millennial, since I can barely remember life without computers at home and the internet. That means I was also old enough to have some idea of what was going on politically after 9/11, and while I supported it at the time, came to see what a disasterous decade of Republican rule the oughties were after a good few years. The GOP and neoconservatives took full cynical advantage of how farked in the head this country was after 9/11 and used it to take this country to the precipice of fascism, they took us the full way to disaster when it came to starting the war in Iraq and their stewardship of the economy.

I may not always pull the lever for a Democrat when I vote, but I will never vote for a Republican for the rest of my life unless they fundamentally reevaluate their economic platform and throw out their hateful base of ignorant backwoods Bible bumpkins. The opposite is actually occurring.

They did away with Generation Y and lumped them in with the Millennials.  I'm on the upper end of that label and have little in common with the majority of it other than being raised in the technology age.  There seems to be a gap from those born in the mid-80s that really doesn't belong to X or the Millennials.

/yolo
//or something

Yeah, it is weird. All I know is that I feel like I have more in common with someone born in the 70s than I do with someone that has seen cell phones and AOL since day one, if that makes sense. Anecdotally, other people my age have expressed this sentiment.


Yarp, that's been my anecdotal experience as well (born in '82).
 
2013-09-12 12:41:34 PM  

DeArmondVI: Zeno-25: TheDarkSaintOfGin: Zeno-25: I consider myself more Gen Y than Millennial, since I can barely remember life without computers at home and the internet. That means I was also old enough to have some idea of what was going on politically after 9/11, and while I supported it at the time, came to see what a disasterous decade of Republican rule the oughties were after a good few years. The GOP and neoconservatives took full cynical advantage of how farked in the head this country was after 9/11 and used it to take this country to the precipice of fascism, they took us the full way to disaster when it came to starting the war in Iraq and their stewardship of the economy.

I may not always pull the lever for a Democrat when I vote, but I will never vote for a Republican for the rest of my life unless they fundamentally reevaluate their economic platform and throw out their hateful base of ignorant backwoods Bible bumpkins. The opposite is actually occurring.

They did away with Generation Y and lumped them in with the Millennials.  I'm on the upper end of that label and have little in common with the majority of it other than being raised in the technology age.  There seems to be a gap from those born in the mid-80s that really doesn't belong to X or the Millennials.

/yolo
//or something

Yeah, it is weird. All I know is that I feel like I have more in common with someone born in the 70s than I do with someone that has seen cell phones and AOL since day one, if that makes sense. Anecdotally, other people my age have expressed this sentiment.

Yarp, that's been my anecdotal experience as well (born in '82).


I've had the exact opposite experience, (born in '80)
 
2013-09-12 01:06:25 PM  

Zeno-25: I consider myself more Gen Y than Millennial, since I can barely remember life without computers at home and the internet. That means I was also old enough to have some idea of what was going on politically after 9/11, and while I supported it at the time, came to see what a disasterous decade of Republican rule the oughties were after a good few years. The GOP and neoconservatives took full cynical advantage of how farked in the head this country was after 9/11 and used it to take this country to the precipice of fascism, they took us the full way to disaster when it came to starting the war in Iraq and their stewardship of the economy.

I may not always pull the lever for a Democrat when I vote, but I will never vote for a Republican for the rest of my life unless they fundamentally reevaluate their economic platform and throw out their hateful base of ignorant backwoods Bible bumpkins. The opposite is actually occurring.


I'm probably right on the line between Gen Y and ME, but I can tell you this: The reason MEs will  never vote Republican is because  we do not believe other people are lesser. Sure, they might throw out 'fa**ot' and the n-word like candy online, but when the chips are down? Fark that shiat. Everyone's a human being.
 
2013-09-12 01:22:12 PM  

Zeno-25: I consider myself more Gen Y than Millennial, since I can barely remember life without computers at home and the internet. That means I was also old enough to have some idea of what was going on politically after 9/11, and while I supported it at the time, came to see what a disasterous decade of Republican rule the oughties were after a good few years. The GOP and neoconservatives took full cynical advantage of how farked in the head this country was after 9/11 and used it to take this country to the precipice of fascism, they took us the full way to disaster when it came to starting the war in Iraq and their stewardship of the economy.

I may not always pull the lever for a Democrat when I vote, but I will never vote for a Republican for the rest of my life unless they fundamentally reevaluate their economic platform and throw out their hateful base of ignorant backwoods Bible bumpkins. The opposite is actually occurring.


I'm in the same boat, I was raised in a solidly neo-con household and was a firm believer. After all the bullshiat with Bush and Iraq, along with realizing gay people aren't horrible monsters, I stopped voting republican.
 
2013-09-12 01:37:31 PM  
FTFA:If people resolved to be chaste outside of marriage, do you think the abortion movement or taxpayer funded contraception appeal could gain traction?

Why do I have to be chaste outside of marriage?
 
2013-09-12 01:39:55 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: FTFA:If people resolved to be chaste outside of marriage, do you think the abortion movement or taxpayer funded contraception appeal could gain traction?

Why do I have to be chaste outside of marriage?


Because sex outside of marriage makes baby Jesus cry. WHY DO YOU HATE JESUS?
 
2013-09-12 01:46:53 PM  
In other words, what do millennials actually believe? Well, never before has an American generation been so tolerant of intolerable sexual practices, so supportive of faux marriage and skeptical of actual marriage, so relativistic and disconnected from Christianity (church attendance is one of the best predictors of voting habits). Never before has an American generation been to their degree socially "liberal."

Yes how dare they stop being bigoted, narrow minded, fundamentalist assholes.  They need to stay as ignorant and regressive as you or America falls apart, right?
 
2013-09-12 01:48:14 PM  
FTFA: Well, never before has an American generation been so tolerant of intolerable sexual practices, so supportive of faux marriage and skeptical of actual marriage, so relativistic and disconnected from Christianity (church attendance is one of the best predictors of voting habits). Never before has an American generation been to their degree socially "liberal."

I blame the flappers and that darn Charleston those kids are doing.
 
2013-09-12 02:23:02 PM  
I know.  That totally sucks that we can't let those promiscuous single mothers "twist in the wind."  They should be punished for their promiscuity I tell you!!


/Oh, and that quote was from the part *before* it got crazy.


Most importantly, thechildren should definitely be punished for the sins of their parents Mothers.

FTFY
It is only the mothers who are dirty whores for getting pregnant. The fathers are just boys being boys.
 
2013-09-12 02:30:36 PM  

NotARocketScientist: I know.  That totally sucks that we can't let those promiscuous single mothers "twist in the wind."  They should be punished for their promiscuity I tell you!!


/Oh, and that quote was from the part *before* it got crazy.

Most importantly, thechildren should definitely be punished for the sins of their parents Mothers.

FTFY
It is only the mothers who are dirty whores for getting pregnant. The fathers are just boys being boys.


No, that fathers are actually the victims!  Victims of a conniving scheme to get them on the hook for child support for the rest of their lives.  Won't somebody please think of the true victims?

/what some people actually believe
 
2013-09-12 02:52:55 PM  
I can see that a rich asshole, or an idiot wrote this. The "founding fathers" were wealthy landowning aristocrats who felt entitled to not pay taxes. Paying taxes is for the little people. That is why they set up a system where only wealthy landowners like themselves could even vote. Anyone actually able to vote under that system was so rich that they would have been considered nobility in old Europe.

In spite of all their talk about freedom and all men being created equal, they continued to own slaves.
 
2013-09-12 03:08:55 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: Yeah, it actually started out with a modicum of self-awareness with the "conservative is a relative term" bit, but by this point it had devolved into a spittle-flecked fever dream:

The truth? Government can be no better than the public's virtue, though it can be worse. And this morality-government relationship is evident in voting patterns. Is it a coincidence that every group orthodox Christians label immoral -- those involved in "alternative" sexual deathstyles, criminally inclined inner-city dwellers, effete college professors, grunge-type youths scarred with multiple tattoos and body piercings -- vote left? "What fellowship hath light with darkness?" The darkness hates the light. When people have sins they yearn to rationalize away, the last thing they'll do is support leaders who would uphold, even just through word, a moral standard condemning their passions.


How dare those to whom we are vehemently opposed and bigoted against vote for the opposition! They should fall in lockstep and vote to allow us to publicly shame them for not being subservient like good little minorities!
 
2013-09-12 03:42:18 PM  
I think that's the most nauseating, misinformed, delusional garbage I've ever read.

I know it's catering to a derper crowd, but they're really pushing the envelope, especially if they're wanting to remain relevant to the crowd the author acknowledges their generation raised.


/How DARE you treat people different than you like people! They're not people! They're slaves, er... criminals, er... sinners, er... evil, er... commies, er liberals!
//What am I, as a Gen-Y ('84) supposed to take away from this editorial?
 
2013-09-12 04:29:26 PM  
Is it a coincidence that every group orthodox Christians label immoral -- those involved in "alternative" sexual deathstyles, criminally inclined inner-city dwellers, effete college professors, grunge-type youths scarred with multiple tattoos and body piercings -- vote left?

He may think he'shiat upon some kind of great philosophical epiphany with this observation, when in reality it's nothing more than a tautological statement that more or less amounts to, "Hey, isn't it a weird coincidence that all the people we hate for being different from us tend to do things that are different from us?"
 
2013-09-12 05:41:25 PM  
Far better explanation of the numbers and what they mean in Daily Beast story  here
 
2013-09-12 09:22:17 PM  

eiger: "Consider that while a conservative in 1952 America was staunchly anti-communist, a conservative in the Soviet Union at the time was a communist. And "conservatives" in Western Europe are often our liberals' ideological soulmates. This isn't for lack of truth in political advertising. Rather, it's because the only consistent definition of "conservative" is "a desire to maintain the status quo" while "liberal's" only consistent definition involves a desire to change it. This means "conservatism" is always changing: tomorrow's version will reflect today's liberalism's success in altering the status quo. Conservatism is the caboose to liberalism's locomotive."

Hey, American Thinker writer, that's actually a pretty reasonable definition of conservative (that's actually a pretty piss poor definition of liberal if you're trying to create a universal one, but, whatever). And by that definition, most self-described moderates and many self-describes liberals are, in fact, conservatives because they want to maintain the status quo, aka the New Deal state. And very, very few self-described "conservatives" are. Rather, they are mostly radical reactionaries who want to create a system in the United States radically different than anything that has ever existed. Of course, you won't see that because thinking is not a major prerequisite for writing on American Thinker.


They're describing radicals rather than liberals. And what is commonly referred to as conservative these days is actually authoritarian. Most of the authoritarians consider liberals to be radicals, but they in fact are the radicals themselves.
 
2013-09-12 09:24:56 PM  

eiger: You know I actually read (skimmed) much of that article, and it was, actually, not as stupid as I had expected


Only about the first half...went waaaay down the rabbit hole towards the end.

Maybe he figured he had time to finish it before the acid kicked in and was really wrong....
 
2013-09-12 10:08:48 PM  
Ah yes, another steaming pile of derp from Selwyn "David" Duke.

Best known for : http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/02/hating_whitey_1.html
as well as having an amazingly punchable face.
 
2013-09-13 01:34:40 AM  

UberDave: I know.  That totally sucks that we can't let those promiscuous single mothers "twist in the wind."  They should be punished for their promiscuity I tell you!!


Makes perfect sense.  Sort of like how I saw an open pit the other day.  It would be very easy for someone to fall in and hurt themselves.  So I lined the pit with spikes and filled it with hydrofluoric acid as a deterrent.  I like to think I've helped someone make the right choice in not falling into the pit, by making an example of (what's left of) someone who did.
 
2013-09-13 02:11:34 AM  

Doc Daneeka: No, that fathers are actually the victims! Victims of a conniving scheme to get them on the hook for child support for the rest of their lives. Won't somebody please think of the true victims?


Yeah. I completely block out a friend out of my life when he started going on and on about that shiat. He's Tea party level derp.

/Bonus points. He's a black kid that is barely middle class.
 
2013-09-13 02:30:13 AM  

give me doughnuts: Right. Just like the Woodstock generation aren't now old, greedy, and conservative.


As opposed to young, greedy, and conservative, like most of them were in the '60s. Nixon's silent majority was real, and they weren't just the elderly. The hippies and the SDS types were always a minority, and for every war protester there was an Okie from Muskogee who wouldn't burn his draft card down on Main Street, or more likely two or three of them.
 
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