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(Politico)   White House: Russia is all in, baby. Time to call and make them king me. Here's hoping I don't hit 21. Checkmate   (politico.com) divider line 10
    More: Cool, White House, Syrian President Bashar Assad, Russia, Secretary of State John Kerry, Syrians, Sergey Lavrov, Syrian Army, russian foreign minister  
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1201 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Sep 2013 at 9:14 AM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-12 09:29:59 AM
4 votes:

Granny_Panties: Mercutio74: farkin' Kerry.  He slays me.  With his off the cuff, throwin' his hands in the air, sarcastic proposal...  he may just have saved thousands of lives and potentially opened up an important diplomatic avenue with Russia.

I don't even...

Why is Russia getting credit for it? Why isn't Kerry? I don't get it.


Ego. Kerry proposed it, Russia grabbed it like one grabs a branch on the side of the cliff, then the US and Russia said 'Sh*t this might work' and Russia said 'but we want all the credit for it' and the US said, 'whatever, I don't even care' and then Russia was like 'sh*t but this means we gotta do all the legwork' and the US was like 'yah good luck with that' and Russia was like 'fine, but I'm writing a nasty letter to the New York Times' and the US was like 'OK you do that good buddy, ttyl'.
2013-09-12 11:31:32 AM
3 votes:

GTATL: As a libbie lib, I'm trying to understand the mindset here in the comments. In my mind we look like a giant fool, we wanted military action, then realized it wasn't going to happen through easy means, and then backed off. We're the superpower? We look like a joke.


We came off like we wanted military action, then delayed giving the orders until the last possible second, sent it to Congress (who wouldn't pass their own pay raises if Obama suggested it), and we backed off because what we wanted came about. We didn't look like a joke, we looked like a reasonable country that doesn't chuck bombs around willy-nilly but uses it as a means to a better end.

GTATL: After that, Kerry made an off hand offer and now that's been walked back. It's being walked back because we want more than just then end of CW in Assad's arsenal, we want to get rid of his government and thus remove Russia's influence.


Actually, Obama has never wanted to oust Assad because 1. we're not in the regime change business and 2. the devil you know. We walked it back because we publicly, we had to make it look like the Russians caught us in a bind and we had to have the public believe that this isn't really how we really have diplomatic talks.

GTATL: Shockingly, they weren't down for that. Kerry's offer plays right into their hands, keep the current government and remove the chemical weapons. That should be the worst of all possible negotiation outcomes and it's our farking offe? Really?


That is the best farking outcome. And if you were really a libbie lib, you'd be shouting from the rooftops how wonderful it is to not have to worry about another war. We don't want regime change, we don't want to get involved, but CWs being used is an affront to international law and we must take notice of what's going on and smack them down for acting up. You could also argue that Assad using the CWs was a way for him to get the West to help negotiate a cease-fire or peace or intervene.

GTATL: Obama gave a farking speech saying we need to attack because of a crossed line(CW) and now we're saying we'll just accept that and be ok with removing the CW and allowing the slaughter to continue.


that's the point. We need to keep the threat real that if they botch this, we'll farking come at them with God's own thunder if we have to. It's not our fight, it's there's. If there's one thing you should've taken away from the last 10 years is that we cannot come in and develop a country because we utterly suck at it.

GTATL: Instead of addressing that, all I see are fark libs saying this is a brilliant move, and it's actually a total farking screw up.


that's because if you spend more than 30 seconds looking at the whole board, understanding the factors and motivations at work and understand that what you're being told is not necessarily what they really want, then you'll understand why those who can look deep into the behind-the-scenes machinations are praising this.

this isn't a libby lib lib thing. This is a rational humanbeing thing.

we avoided war. You should be happy. If you're not happy that we stopped the use of CW without firing a shot then you really have messed up priorities.
2013-09-12 10:02:13 AM
3 votes:

pivazena: Mercutio74: farkin' Kerry.  He slays me.  With his off the cuff, throwin' his hands in the air, sarcastic proposal...  he may just have saved thousands of lives and potentially opened up an important diplomatic avenue with Russia.

I don't even...

It played out like the chess episode of the west wing.  I don't buy that it was completely off the cuff


I'm right there with you.

I doubt Obama ever wanted to attack Syria.  He could have done it on his own, but instead asked for authorization from a group that wouldn't pass a resolution saying the sky is blue if he asked for it.  He knows this, he's spoken about it.  Also, I heard on XM that Putin said he and Obama talked about disarming the Syrians at the G20, before Kerry said anything about it.
2013-09-12 12:41:41 PM
1 votes:

GTATL: The president doesn't need to send it to Congress unless the action lasts longer than 90 days. This is not a strategic move, it's a i want to share responsibility with Congress move. This is again a sign of weakness. He clearly doesn't have the spine to order the strike unilaterally, as is his right.


if it's a stalling tactic on our part, then sending it to Congress works wonders. Not to mention it makes it a national issue and shows us to be a democracy instead of a pseudo-fascist state.

GTATL: Also, chuck bombs willy nilly? Any strike by the will be a tactical strike. No one thought we'd carpet bomb a target. Cruise missiles all the way.


"chuck bombs willy-nilly" was more of a rhetorical point, not a statement of fact. I know we'd use surgical strikes, but the act of bombing because someone sneezed in a way we didn't like is foolish.

GTATL: You don't know what you are talking about. We need to oust Assad in order to remove Russia's influence and weaken their gas monopoly on Europe,That's the only motivation we have here. It's not about morality.


We don't need Assad out. He was quite friendly towards the west since taking over for his father. Would we like him to be a bit less friendly with Iran? Yeah, but we're not going to get involved in a civil war to make sure he's gone. That's foolish foreign policy and if you understood that, you'd agree.

GTATL: The best outcome is appealing for a strike and then not getting one? The slaughter has been going on for nearly 2 years, Notive we didn't smack them down, and Assad doesn't need the West. I was never worried about a war, which is something that everyone is worried about. In no way would an American president put boots on the ground, and Obama hasn't mentioned anything of the sort.


The best outcome is that we never fire a shot to get what we want. The calls for a strike was a means to the end. You're a good leader if you win the war, you're a great leader if you win without the war. Assad gets rid of the CWs, Russia can go back and say they're better off. Obama gets what he wanted without sending us to war or giving the go ahead to bomb Assad. And an American president would put boots on the ground. You know what the difference between this drum up for war and the drum up for Iraq was? We had clear objectives that we got without the need for invasion with Syria. That is how you have diplomacy.

Why you think getting what we want without having to fire one missile is a bad thing is beyond me.

GTATL: I'm still tryin to understand why, after making a national case for action and then not doing it you'd call it the best outcoem. it makes us look weak.


the national case for action was to make it seem like we were ready to go to war and do whatever was necessary. Not doing it may have given the news "blue balls" but it makes us seem far more rational and level-headed than the Bush years.
2013-09-12 09:56:21 AM
1 votes:

duenor: Translation: We're totally fobbing off this mess to the Russians.


Pretty much.  Kerry is now officially the king of the genius boner.
2013-09-12 09:55:24 AM
1 votes:
Translation: We're totally fobbing off this mess to the Russians.
2013-09-12 09:54:11 AM
1 votes:

WhackingDay: bdub77: Granny_Panties: Mercutio74: farkin' Kerry.  He slays me.  With his off the cuff, throwin' his hands in the air, sarcastic proposal...  he may just have saved thousands of lives and potentially opened up an important diplomatic avenue with Russia.

I don't even...

Why is Russia getting credit for it? Why isn't Kerry? I don't get it.

Ego. Kerry proposed it, Russia grabbed it like one grabs a branch on the side of the cliff, then the US and Russia said 'Sh*t this might work' and Russia said 'but we want all the credit for it' and the US said, 'whatever, I don't even care' and then Russia was like 'sh*t but this means we gotta do all the legwork' and the US was like 'yah good luck with that' and Russia was like 'fine, but I'm writing a nasty letter to the New York Times' and the US was like 'OK you do that good buddy, ttyl'.

If only the mainstream media talking heads could sum up the situation so concisely. Kudos!


I think that's going to also set up some successful diplomacy with Russia.  Putin is clearly an egomaniac and his sense of self is more valuable to him than anything.  As long as you put Russia in a situation where to "save face" or "look like a powerful nation" you can get them to do pretty much anything.
2013-09-12 09:39:53 AM
1 votes:

pivazena: Mercutio74: farkin' Kerry.  He slays me.  With his off the cuff, throwin' his hands in the air, sarcastic proposal...  he may just have saved thousands of lives and potentially opened up an important diplomatic avenue with Russia.

I don't even...

It played out like the chess episode of the west wing.  I don't buy that it was completely off the cuff


I was surprised how much of a war monger Kerry and Obama turned into all the sudden. It makes sense now, they was bluffing. Maybe.

Just when I thought Obama couldn't possibly be any dumber, he goes and does something like this... and totally redeem himself!

1.bp.blogspot.com
2013-09-12 09:28:14 AM
1 votes:

Granny_Panties: Why is Russia getting credit for it? Why isn't Kerry? I don't get it.


Remember, Michael Steele tried to say once that Afghanistan was OBAMA's war. With a straight face. In front of alleged adults. These are the people we're dealing with here.


/but don't you ever question their love for 'Murka (when the president isn't blah)!!!!
2013-09-12 09:25:35 AM
1 votes:

Mercutio74: farkin' Kerry.  He slays me.  With his off the cuff, throwin' his hands in the air, sarcastic proposal...  he may just have saved thousands of lives and potentially opened up an important diplomatic avenue with Russia.

I don't even...


It played out like the chess episode of the west wing.  I don't buy that it was completely off the cuff
 
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