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(Badass Digest)   Why Star Trek Into Darkness is really a 9/11 crypto-truther conspiracy movie, never mind the Tribble superblood   (badassdigest.com) divider line 55
    More: Obvious, Star Trek, deep space exploration, Gulf of Tonkin, Bob Orci, mujahideens, suicide bomb  
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1896 clicks; posted to Geek » on 11 Sep 2013 at 8:45 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-11 09:07:24 AM  
Tribble Superblood

Not sure what kind of music my band should play.
 
2013-09-11 09:11:41 AM  

turboke: Tribble Superblood

Not sure what kind of music my band should play.


Make it a true crossover, play that stuff from the Mos Eisly cantina.

/which is now stuck in your head.
 
2013-09-11 09:13:41 AM  
In as much as neither the film's plot nor the conspiracy theories make any sense at all, yes.
 
2013-09-11 09:15:06 AM  
Did we mention it was almost as badly written as "Prometheus" yet?
 
2013-09-11 09:24:49 AM  
Has everyone forgotten that the entire plot of Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country is a false-flag operation?
 
2013-09-11 09:33:43 AM  
All I know about that movie is that its badly written, and think it should be renamed to either Star Trek Into the Fan Service, or Star Trek Into the Dumbness. Either works.
 
2013-09-11 09:34:20 AM  

TetrisBlock: Has everyone forgotten that the entire plot of Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country is a false-flag operation?


Apparently.
 
2013-09-11 09:47:31 AM  

Any Pie Left: Did we mention it was almost as badly written as "Prometheus" yet?


Well, that's the flimsy excuse for me to suggest we maroon Lindelof on Ceti Alpha V I needed this morning. Thanks! :D

/last time I wanted to send him to the Phantom Zone
 
2013-09-11 09:50:56 AM  

Jarhead_h: TetrisBlock: Has everyone forgotten that the entire plot of Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country is a false-flag operation?

Apparently.


Then what was Final Frontier?
 
2013-09-11 09:56:31 AM  

PizzaJedi81: Jarhead_h: TetrisBlock: Has everyone forgotten that the entire plot of Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country is a false-flag operation?

Apparently.

Then what was Final Frontier?


Straight-up religious terrorism against the Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire and Federation at the hands of Sybok.
 
2013-09-11 10:11:02 AM  
suck it, old school devotees.  nu-trek is freaking awesome and the new movies make the old movies look like the turds that they mostly are.  trek was shiatting itself for decades, and the new movies are exciting, fun, gorgeous to look at and I can't wait for the next one, should there be one.

/life long trekker
//but can admit the truth.
 
2013-09-11 11:00:12 AM  
Poorly written essay calls movie badly written.
 
2013-09-11 11:28:19 AM  

TetrisBlock: Has everyone forgotten that the entire plot of Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country is a false-flag operation?


Soooo many war crimes. And Kirk was even trying to be nice.
 
2013-09-11 11:40:12 AM  

Confabulat: TetrisBlock: Has everyone forgotten that the entire plot of Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country is a false-flag operation?

Soooo many war crimes. And Kirk was even trying to be nice.


Are we ignoring the acts of war Chang and company were engaged in? The treason  SaavikValeris engaged in?
 
2013-09-11 12:04:11 PM  

frepnog: suck it, old school devotees.  nu-trek is freaking awesome and the new movies make the old movies look like the turds that they mostly are.  trek was shiatting itself for decades, and the new movies are exciting, fun, gorgeous to look at and I can't wait for the next one, should there be one.

/life long trekker
//but can admit the truth.


I really only have a single thing that bothered me about Into Darkness.  For both new films they've gone to great lengths to get actors that match those that played the original Trek counterparts, the only real exception I can think of being Chekov...but he at least still played the character as a younger Russian.

So I have no idea how Khan goes from being a  Sikh to a posh looking Brit.  It didn't make me like the movie any less, but it did kinda stink of a ploy used to hide the character's identity to the audience while the film was being made.  But personally it hid it a little too well because when Cumberbatch says who he really is I literally said "What?" out loud in the theater.  Just took me out of the film.

Again, it's a small point, I'm not pissed or anything, but I just fail to see why they went that route.   If they hadn't already used him, the guy that plays the captain of the Kelvin in the first film (and the lead terrorist in the first Iron Man) would have been awesome.
 
2013-09-11 12:27:53 PM  

Crotchrocket Slim: Confabulat: TetrisBlock: Has everyone forgotten that the entire plot of Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country is a false-flag operation?

Soooo many war crimes. And Kirk was even trying to be nice.

Are we ignoring the acts of war Chang and company were engaged in? The treason  SaavikValeris engaged in?


What got me is that they show Praxis as already destroyed in the beauty shot of Kronos. When it is destroyed in ST6 it is far enough in the future that Sulu has his own command. Now it's magically at least a decade earlier.

Well that, and all of the other plot holes.
 
2013-09-11 12:33:26 PM  

TetrisBlock: Has everyone forgotten that the entire plot of Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country is a false-flag operation?


What does Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country have to do with Sherlock Holmes 2: A Game of Shadows?

Nick Meyer, director and writer of The Undiscovered Country, also wrote what is widely considered to be the best Sherlock Holmes novel not written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle himself - 'The Seven Per-Cent Solution'. In this novel, a conspiracy of villains work to engineer a world war and profit from it.

Nick Meyer obviously decided to use his old plot again in TUC, casting Spock as Sherlock Holmes, not subtly.*

A Game of Shadows' plot was loosely based on Nick Meyer's novel (Moriarty engineering a world war for profit).

So, while TUC has a false-flag operation as a premise, it's because it was written by a Sherlock author, not a conspiracy theorist, so it doesn't rule out the article writer's conclusions.

*This is why Into Darkness by Orci is shiat: in TUC, Spock directly references Sherlock Holmes in a tongue-in-cheek fashion: "An ancestor of mine maintained that once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth'. This, of course, was originally a quote by Sherlock Holmes. Nick Meyer was being 'cute' there by implying that Holmes was his *literary* ancestor (and he certainly was). A lot of stupid fanfic writers (and even some of the official Trek novelists) took that literally and wrote stories in which Sir Arthur Conan Doyle is Spock's mother's great-great-great-grandfather or some idiocy.

Now, in the reboot Star Trek film, Spock says the same line, probably because Orci wrote it while fast-forwarding through the original movies for 'inspiration' (ahem, copying shiat that happened before). But, the reference is lost! It's no longer a Sherlock Holmes story in disguise, penned by a Sherlock author. Spock is no longer filling the Sherlock shoes in the story. I would bet the stars that Orci had no clue that Spock was quoting Sherlock in TUC. So, now we have a movie in which Spock says a Sherlock Homes line that is completely out of context. Pure Jean Baudrillard-ian second order simulacra - a copy of a copy that no longer references the original reference.

That is why the new Star Trek movies are absolute, puerile garbage.
 
2013-09-11 01:02:25 PM  

Samwise Gamgee: TetrisBlock:


ST:II was also an original take on an excellent book by being Moby Dick being told from the POV of the whale. That was not subtly hinted at by Khan quoting it.

This movie was a jumbled mess where they didn't even bother connecting the dots.
 
2013-09-11 01:08:53 PM  

Samwise Gamgee: TetrisBlock: Has everyone forgotten that the entire plot of Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country is a false-flag operation?

Now, in the reboot Star Trek film, Spock says the same line, probably because Orci wrote it while fast-forwarding through the original movies for 'inspiration' (ahem, copying shiat that happened before). But, the reference is lost!


Yeah, but guess what? Not even the hardcore Star Trek fans understand that 'the undiscovered country' is a reference to death. They miss it entirely. They don't get the scene. It's not like it would be the first Trek reference that got missed.

/I work on Star Trek, so I'm getting a kick, etc.
 
2013-09-11 01:41:53 PM  

TetrisBlock: Samwise Gamgee: TetrisBlock: Has everyone forgotten that the entire plot of Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country is a false-flag operation?

Now, in the reboot Star Trek film, Spock says the same line, probably because Orci wrote it while fast-forwarding through the original movies for 'inspiration' (ahem, copying shiat that happened before). But, the reference is lost!

Yeah, but guess what? Not even the hardcore Star Trek fans understand that 'the undiscovered country' is a reference to death. They miss it entirely. They don't get the scene. It's not like it would be the first Trek reference that got missed.

/I work on Star Trek, so I'm getting a kick, etc.


The title of STVI is referenced in dialogue, during the dinner between the Enterprise and Qonos One staff.  Spock states that Gorkon's reference to "the Undiscovered Country" was from Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 1.  That's better explained in the movie than when Spock claims the line from Sherlock is from an ancestor of his.
 
2013-09-11 01:54:49 PM  
And the gunslinger assigned me to watch it as punishment cuz I dun goof'd.

/bummer
 
2013-09-11 01:58:18 PM  

kyleaugustus: TetrisBlock: Samwise Gamgee: TetrisBlock: Has everyone forgotten that the entire plot of Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country is a false-flag operation?

Now, in the reboot Star Trek film, Spock says the same line, probably because Orci wrote it while fast-forwarding through the original movies for 'inspiration' (ahem, copying shiat that happened before). But, the reference is lost!

Yeah, but guess what? Not even the hardcore Star Trek fans understand that 'the undiscovered country' is a reference to death. They miss it entirely. They don't get the scene. It's not like it would be the first Trek reference that got missed.

/I work on Star Trek, so I'm getting a kick, etc.

The title of STVI is referenced in dialogue, during the dinner between the Enterprise and Qonos One staff.  Spock states that Gorkon's reference to "the Undiscovered Country" was from Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 1.  That's better explained in the movie than when Spock claims the line from Sherlock is from an ancestor of his.


What about when Spock claims the old Vulcan proverb that only Nixon could go to China? And how would Khan know an old Klingon proverb, anyway?
 
2013-09-11 02:17:19 PM  

TetrisBlock: kyleaugustus: TetrisBlock: Samwise Gamgee: TetrisBlock: Has everyone forgotten that the entire plot of Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country is a false-flag operation?

Now, in the reboot Star Trek film, Spock says the same line, probably because Orci wrote it while fast-forwarding through the original movies for 'inspiration' (ahem, copying shiat that happened before). But, the reference is lost!

Yeah, but guess what? Not even the hardcore Star Trek fans understand that 'the undiscovered country' is a reference to death. They miss it entirely. They don't get the scene. It's not like it would be the first Trek reference that got missed.

/I work on Star Trek, so I'm getting a kick, etc.

The title of STVI is referenced in dialogue, during the dinner between the Enterprise and Qonos One staff.  Spock states that Gorkon's reference to "the Undiscovered Country" was from Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 1.  That's better explained in the movie than when Spock claims the line from Sherlock is from an ancestor of his.

What about when Spock claims the old Vulcan proverb that only Nixon could go to China? And how would Khan know an old Klingon proverb, anyway?



He had access to the Enterprise's databanks of which he read a rather large part, and Khan has nearly perfect recall (although he can't quote Moby Dick very accurately).
 
2013-09-11 02:19:14 PM  

TetrisBlock: And how would Khan know an old Klingon proverb, anyway?


 Well, his wife  wasa Starfleet historian. And maybe Kirk gave them some reading material when he dropped them off.
 
2013-09-11 02:20:08 PM  
Star Trek III: The Wrath of Fhan
 
2013-09-11 03:04:44 PM  
Yeah, because having Khan played by a mexican dude the first time around, and then with a farcical prosthetic chest, that totally didn't ruin the versimilitude.
 
2013-09-11 03:09:51 PM  

Samwise Gamgee: "An ancestor of mine maintained that once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth'. This, of course, was originally a quote by Sherlock Holmes.


Wow, I'm lame. I thought there was some sideways reference to this Khan's actor being the same guy that played in the BBC version of Sherlock.
 
2013-09-11 03:21:44 PM  

TetrisBlock: Has everyone forgotten that the entire plot of Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country is a false-flag operation?


I hadn't forgotten, but in Star Trek VI it was  actually executed well and was entertaining.
 
2013-09-11 04:18:06 PM  

Samwise Gamgee: But, the reference is lost! It's no longer a Sherlock Holmes story in disguise, penned by a Sherlock author. Spock is no longer filling the Sherlock shoes in the story. I would bet the stars that Orci had no clue that Spock was quoting Sherlock in TUC. So, now we have a movie in which Spock says a Sherlock Homes line that is completely out of context.


OMG I hope this is tongue in cheek. I grew up with Undiscovered Country and I never thought to connect Spock with Sherlock. That is some bullshiat you just made up right there, dumbass.
 
2013-09-11 04:20:21 PM  
Quick raise your hands everyone! Who knew Undiscovered Country was a secret Sherlock Holmes story starring Spock as Holmes?

Go on!

Raise your hands!
 
2013-09-11 04:57:32 PM  

kyleaugustus: TetrisBlock: Samwise Gamgee: TetrisBlock: Has everyone forgotten that the entire plot of Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country is a false-flag operation?

Now, in the reboot Star Trek film, Spock says the same line, probably because Orci wrote it while fast-forwarding through the original movies for 'inspiration' (ahem, copying shiat that happened before). But, the reference is lost!

Yeah, but guess what? Not even the hardcore Star Trek fans understand that 'the undiscovered country' is a reference to death. They miss it entirely. They don't get the scene. It's not like it would be the first Trek reference that got missed.

/I work on Star Trek, so I'm getting a kick, etc.

The title of STVI is referenced in dialogue, during the dinner between the Enterprise and Qonos One staff.  Spock states that Gorkon's reference to "the Undiscovered Country" was from Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 1.  That's better explained in the movie than when Spock claims the line from Sherlock is from an ancestor of his.


It was supposed to be Star Trek II's title, IIRC.

MadMattressMack: Crotchrocket Slim: Confabulat: TetrisBlock: Has everyone forgotten that the entire plot of Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country is a false-flag operation?

Soooo many war crimes. And Kirk was even trying to be nice.

Are we ignoring the acts of war Chang and company were engaged in? The treason  SaavikValeris engaged in?

What got me is that they show Praxis as already destroyed in the beauty shot of Kronos. When it is destroyed in ST6 it is far enough in the future that Sulu has his own command. Now it's magically at least a decade earlier.

Well that, and all of the other plot holes.


Spock said that Praxis exploded due to decades of overmining and poor safety measures, so it looks like Praxis was always a shiathole.
 
2013-09-11 05:02:54 PM  
Wow, these new Trek vs old Trek threads are getting weird.
 
2013-09-11 05:04:57 PM  

MadMattressMack: Crotchrocket Slim: Confabulat: TetrisBlock: Has everyone forgotten that the entire plot of Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country is a false-flag operation?

Soooo many war crimes. And Kirk was even trying to be nice.

Are we ignoring the acts of war Chang and company were engaged in? The treason  SaavikValeris engaged in?

What got me is that they show Praxis as already destroyed in the beauty shot of Kronos. When it is destroyed in ST6 it is far enough in the future that Sulu has his own command. Now it's magically at least a decade earlier.

Well that, and all of the other plot holes.


It is very clearly an alternate timeline. That doesn't cover all the plot holes but the timeline was significantly changed in the new Star Trek.
 
2013-09-11 05:11:24 PM  

Confabulat: Samwise Gamgee: But, the reference is lost! It's no longer a Sherlock Holmes story in disguise, penned by a Sherlock author. Spock is no longer filling the Sherlock shoes in the story. I would bet the stars that Orci had no clue that Spock was quoting Sherlock in TUC. So, now we have a movie in which Spock says a Sherlock Homes line that is completely out of context.

OMG I hope this is tongue in cheek. I grew up with Undiscovered Country and I never thought to connect Spock with Sherlock. That is some bullshiat you just made up right there, dumbass.


I'm sorry that you're stupid, but please don't try to project your ignorance onto me. It's not like Spock and Sherlock Holmes aren't two of the biggest pop-culture icons of all time or anything. Ever read a book? Neither has Orci.
 
2013-09-11 05:21:12 PM  
Samwise Gamgee:

I'm sorry that you're stupid, but please don't try to project your ignorance onto me. It's not like Spock and Sherlock Holmes aren't two of the biggest pop-culture icons of all time or anything. Ever read a book? Neither has Orci.

I will give you $50 if you offer any proof that you've met Bob Orci. You're pissed and that's fine, and by all means take all the shots you want at his work, but this personal bullshiat is just stupid. I see the same shiat convention after convention, and it's not even annoying: It's sad. It reinforces the ugly stereotype of fat guys who live with their parents who have nothing better to do than biatch.

Where's your 'Star Trek' novel, or sold screenplay? Where's your credit on anything? Very interested to know.
 
2013-09-11 05:22:46 PM  

Samwise Gamgee: TetrisBlock: Has everyone forgotten that the entire plot of Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country is a false-flag operation?

What does Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country have to do with Sherlock Holmes 2: A Game of Shadows?

Nick Meyer, director and writer of The Undiscovered Country, also wrote what is widely considered to be the best Sherlock Holmes novel not written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle himself - 'The Seven Per-Cent Solution'. In this novel, a conspiracy of villains work to engineer a world war and profit from it.

Nick Meyer obviously decided to use his old plot again in TUC, casting Spock as Sherlock Holmes, not subtly.*

A Game of Shadows' plot was loosely based on Nick Meyer's novel (Moriarty engineering a world war for profit).

So, while TUC has a false-flag operation as a premise, it's because it was written by a Sherlock author, not a conspiracy theorist, so it doesn't rule out the article writer's conclusions.

*This is why Into Darkness by Orci is shiat: in TUC, Spock directly references Sherlock Holmes in a tongue-in-cheek fashion: "An ancestor of mine maintained that once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth'. This, of course, was originally a quote by Sherlock Holmes. Nick Meyer was being 'cute' there by implying that Holmes was his *literary* ancestor (and he certainly was). A lot of stupid fanfic writers (and even some of the official Trek novelists) took that literally and wrote stories in which Sir Arthur Conan Doyle is Spock's mother's great-great-great-grandfather or some idiocy.

Now, in the reboot Star Trek film, Spock says the same line, probably because Orci wrote it while fast-forwarding through the original movies for 'inspiration' (ahem, copying shiat that happened before). But, the reference is lost! It's no longer a Sherlock Holmes story in disguise, penned by a Sherlock author. Spock is no longer filling the Sherlock shoes in the story. I would bet the stars that Orci had no ...


wtf am i reading.jpg
 
2013-09-11 05:35:08 PM  
Bith Set Me Up:

Spock said that Praxis exploded due to decades of overmining and poor safety measures, so it looks like Praxis was always a shiathole.

www.stardestroyer.net

Immediately after the explosion, Excelsior's view screen showed an overlay of what remained of Praxis versus the rest of the sphere that had been there.  I don't recall what Praxis looked like in the newest ST, but it was shown in STVI to have been a spheroid prior to the disaster.

/of course the picture is from a Star Wars site
 
2013-09-11 05:45:40 PM  
kyleaugustus:

/of course the picture is from a Star Wars site

That's because of this.
 
2013-09-11 05:51:14 PM  

TetrisBlock: kyleaugustus:

/of course the picture is from a Star Wars site

That's because of this.


A planar vs spheroid shock-wave isn't something we're disputing here.
 
2013-09-11 07:10:45 PM  

PizzaJedi81: Jarhead_h: TetrisBlock: Has everyone forgotten that the entire plot of Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country is a false-flag operation?

Apparently.

Then what was Final Frontier?


How many times do we have to tell you there is no such movie
 
2013-09-11 08:00:27 PM  

Nurglitch: Yeah, because having Khan played by a mexican dude the first time around, and then with a farcical prosthetic chest, that totally didn't ruin the versimilitude.


um ... pretty sure that was all Ricardo and steroids

/damn now i gotta go check the special features
 
2013-09-11 08:12:35 PM  
TetrisBlock:
I will give you $50 if you offer any proof that you've met Bob Orci. You're pissed and that's fine, and by all means take all the shots you want at his work, but this personal bullshiat is just stupid. I see the same shiat convention after convention, and it's not even annoying: It's sad. It reinforces the ugly stereotype of fat guys who live with their parents who have nothing better to do than biatch.

Where's your 'Star Trek' novel, or sold screenplay? Where's your credit on anything? Very interested to know.


 tvfilmnews.com

LEAVE BOB ORCI ALONE!

Seriously gonna go with the ol', 'You're not a Hollywood screenwriter, so you're not allowed to criticize' line, eh? I'm not a writer by trade and never tried to be, but if it helps, I won a statewide essay contest in school back in the 90's. As in, I was  the winner for the  entire state, among all high school students (of any grade). Got a bunch of gift certificates for bookstores and a (pitifully small) scholarship for that. One of my teachers told my parents at a parent teacher conference that I was going to write the next great American novel one day. A 9th grade English teacher asked me if I had plagiarized an essay from somewhere because I properly used the editorial 'we' throughout (which isn't impressive in itself, but it told me that my paper was obviously better than what he typically dealt with). The board of directors at the company I work for nominated me to craft all press releases and internal correspondence to the workforce, as well as rewrite the company charter and employee handbook, because they were impressed by my correspondence. Now, everything 'official' gets a re-write by me before it's published, including local press releases.

Add to that the fact that I am apparently the only one who has read enough to pick up on literary Sherlock Holmes references in 'The Undiscovered Country', judging by the reaction
I'm getting here.

Maybe I should try to break into Hollywood screenwriting. There's serious room for improvement, and not just in Star Trek.

I think people like Confabulatabove are missing the point of the Sherlock connection. It's not that the average viewer may or may not have gotten the reference.  It's the fact that Bob Orci didn't get the reference. When a screenwriter decides to start lifting the plot and elements from another work, he should probably do a little farking homework on it, don't you think? 'Into Darkness' is a mash-up of two of the best Star Trek films, and 'borrows' elements from them  without understanding why they exist in the first place. I point out the Sherlock reference specifically because it's a sharp example of the general malaise that haunts both this film and its predecessor. These movies are being made by people who don't even understand the very thing they're creating.

Then have a look at the wacky, convoluted plots that rely on contrivances, deus ex machinas, Old Spock showing up to help out with advice or futuristic intergalactic beaming technology, an odd decision by the ship's doctor to inject a Tribble with human blood, the preposterous notion that Khan could sneak 72 frozen corpses into warheads under Section 31's noses, a plan that apparently required the Enterprise to fire exactly 72 'super torpedoes', and so on, and so forth. A complete list of problems with the scripts for each movie would probably be half as long as the scripts themselves.

I especially got a kick out of the scene when Spock calls Old Spock to ask for advice concerning Khan. He asks Old Spock how they beat Khan before, and the scene cuts away before we hear Old Spock's answer. Apparently Old Spock's advice was to chase Khan through city streets by jumping from flying car to flying car a la 'Attack of the Clones', and then break Khan's arm with a martial arts move and subsequently hit him very hard in the face until he falls down, because that's what happened. It was convenient that while Chekov was unable to get a transporter lock to beam Khan up, he was apparently able to beam The Girlfriend down so she could save her man with a few stun shots.

This sort of thing is fairly commonplace among summer blockbusters, but it's especially irritating for those of us that remember Star Trek as a thinking man's show. It didn't always succeed at being smart, but it at least almost always  tried. Even The Final Frontier, the movie everyone loves to pile on, had a coherent plot, even if the gags and production overall fell flat.

I'll force myself to say three nice things about the new films: they look good, the acting is good, and they're not boring. They're automatically better than 'Insurrection' and 'Nemesis' because those were mind-numbingly boring, even during the space battle scenes (which felt like watching someone play a video game) - an unforgivable sin for a space opera.

So, there's that.
 
2013-09-11 10:26:28 PM  

Confabulat: Quick raise your hands everyone! Who knew Undiscovered Country was a secret Sherlock Holmes story starring Spock as Holmes?

Go on!

Raise your hands!


I saw the movie in theaters when I was twelve. I knew "Undiscovered Country" was a reference to death (and the characters dealing with old age and change).

The Sherlock parallel escaped me. Honestly, I always figured it was Tom Clancy in Space (with PNAC as the villains).
 
2013-09-11 10:40:26 PM  

frepnog: suck it, old school devotees.  nu-trek is freaking awesome and the new movies make the old movies look like the turds that they mostly are.  trek was shiatting itself for decades, and the new movies are exciting, fun, gorgeous to look at and I can't wait for the next one, should there be one.

/life long trekker
//but can admit the truth.


No, its not. Nu-trek is poorly written and thought out space romps using the names of characters from someone else's work to bring out a fan base for increased profits.
 
2013-09-11 11:30:51 PM  

Samwise Gamgee: TetrisBlock:
I will give you $50 if you offer any proof that you've met Bob Orci. You're pissed and that's fine, and by all means take all the shots you want at his work, but this personal bullshiat is just stupid. I see the same shiat convention after convention, and it's not even annoying: It's sad. It reinforces the ugly stereotype of fat guys who live with their parents who have nothing better to do than biatch.

Where's your 'Star Trek' novel, or sold screenplay? Where's your credit on anything? Very interested to know.


[picsnip]

LEAVE BOB ORCI ALONE!

Seriously gonna go with the ol', 'You're not a Hollywood screenwriter, so you're not allowed to criticize' line, eh?


No, I'm going with this: I don't care if you jerk off farm animals for money, you're absolutely within reasonable lines to criticize Bob Orci's work. As someone who saw the movie, you're allowed to vent to all and sundry how much you hated it, and why. Feel free to pick out yawning plotholes and major problems, and explain in exhaustive detail what you didn't like and why.

I'm also going with this: There is a very large difference between criticizing someone's work to outwardly claiming they've never read a book, which is exactly what you did. And that's not cool. It's an unfair personal attack entirely outside the scope of criticism. You're simply overplaying the 'I'm smarter and/or more attentive than Bob Orci' card and while that's certainly up for honest debate, you did it by setting phasers to 'Personal Attack' and slamming it into the dirt at Warp Factor Smug.
 
2013-09-12 01:32:57 AM  
TetrisBlock: No, I'm going with this: I don't care if you jerk off farm animals for money, you're absolutely within reasonable lines to criticize Bob Orci's work. As someone who saw the movie, you're allowed to vent to all and sundry how much you hated it, and why. Feel free to pick out yawning plotholes and major problems, and explain in exhaustive detail what you didn't like and why.

Thank you for your permission! I've been waiting for the opportunity to give a farm animal a proper jerk. It's all in the wrist. But let's go mature for a moment...

'I'm also going with this: There is a very large difference between criticizing someone's work to outwardly claiming they've never read a book, which is exactly what you did. And that's not cool. It's an unfair personal attack entirely outside the scope of criticism. You're simply overplaying the 'I'm smarter and/or more attentive than Bob Orci' card and while that's certainly up for honest debate, you did it by setting phasers to 'Personal Attack' and slamming it into the dirt at Warp Factor Smug.'

And away we go! You think it's unfair that I assaulted Ocri by implying he was stupid and stuff. That he didn't understand what he was referencing. You think I'm silly for claiming that I'm 'smarter and more attentive' than Orci. You think it's unfair and 'personal' that I said bad things about his talent, and you apparently think that he exists in some sort of 'safety zone' that floats outside the realm of criticism.

You feel bad for Orci and are defending him. Why? He's richer than you or I, talent be damned, so why does it upset you that I criticize him?  This is a little bit weird, man. You exist in a framework in which rich, lazy people need protection from criticism. You imply that I shouldn't be able to say that I'm 'smarter or more attentive' than Bob Orci'. You think I'm being unfair and that I've delivered some sort of 'personal attack'. Why?.

 Does it matter if either of us get emotional? Nah. This is an open forum. I said my piece. You can say your own. Robert Orci is welcome to join in this discussion. There is not some some unspoken Internet etiquette that restricts me from saying the truth because it's not polite or whatever.

 I wasn't directly making the claims that you accuse me of making, but since you force the issue, you know what? Screw it. It's true. I will take your hyperbole - what you think I think about Rob Orci - and take it to heart, and scream it from the heavens:

  'I'm smarter and/or more attentive than Bob OrcI.'

Allow me to repeat:  I'm smarter and more talented (attentive) than Rob Orci, or virtually anyone else involved with the Trek franchise lately. The usual response is: 'Prove it'.

My answer: Prove it? Fine. I think I've 'proved it' with my posts, but If anyone reading this is in any way involved with the Star Trek franchise,  needs a hand, speak the fark up. I'm here. Yes, I will absolutely write you a better plot than the ones you've been given lately. I will write characters that are true to the originals, allowing you to relate to them, (with caveats, given plot complications.) I guaran-damned-tee you I can create better screenplays, because I know what is happening here - I understand the context.  I know why Kirk cheated on the Kobyashi Maru. Those in charge of the franchise right now do not. I understand why the Kobayashi Mari is important to Trek fans. I rather suspect that the showrunners do not.

I'm willing to prove that I'm not just talking out my ass. No, I'm not just shiatting on Orci because i'm a 'hater'. It's not even about Orci. And wes, I can do better. If someone can tell me how to (get paid), I'll absolutely do it. I'm not going to back down on this. I didn't enter this discussion to prove I'm a better showman than the current Trek crew, but I motherfarking absolutely WOULD be. I'm smarter, more capable, and more clever than Orci. He's and idiot, and he doesn't understand context, or framework, or themes, or anything else. He completely lacks a historic
 
2013-09-12 01:38:19 AM  
... frame of reference. Hit control-enter too early, sorry. But yeah. To sum it up, modern 'Trek' is shiat and is destined to fail. It could be good, but it won't, because who really cares? If you dare to criticize Trek these days, you get shiat on. What's the point? Why should anyone care? DOES anyone care?
 
2013-09-12 04:30:23 AM  

Samwise Gamgee: I'm smarter, more capable, and more clever than Orci.


Because you are better. At what? Everything.

/just wondering if you're an augment
 
2013-09-12 10:04:27 AM  
  We could have had a kick ass Star Trek sci-fi adventure on a strange and beautiful alien world... like Avatar but with the characters we actually like. We could have had intense space battles with Klingons, where Kirk showed his military cunning to outwit a more powerful enemy. We could have Spock and McCoy having philosophical debates of logic versus passion over what Kirk should do. Scotty and the crew using engineering and science to get out of impossible situations. The essence of classic Star Trek. But we get none of that.
Instead we get this confusing, generic, and sloppily written 9/11 conspiracy film that rips off whole chunks of Wrath of Khan and pukes them back at us. Disappointing to say the least. And then Pegg and Orci tell Star Trek fans to "Fark OFF" for being disappointed?!  Man, that's like school on a Saturday.

/no class
 
2013-09-12 10:09:08 AM  

ReaverZ: frepnog: suck it, old school devotees.  nu-trek is freaking awesome and the new movies make the old movies look like the turds that they mostly are.  trek was shiatting itself for decades, and the new movies are exciting, fun, gorgeous to look at and I can't wait for the next one, should there be one.

/life long trekker
//but can admit the truth.

No, its not. Nu-trek is poorly written and thought out space romps using the names of characters from someone else's work to bring out a fan base for increased profits.


Do you really think that the first movie was made thinking it would be the highest rated and highest grossing film in the star trek catalogue to date?

DO YOU?

because they didn't know.  it could have flopped.  it could have been released to theaters and audiences say "meh, fark trek".  but no.  glowing reviews.  glowing word of mouth.  incredible box office return.  more money made than any previous trek film.  better rated than any previous trek film.

you are farking wrong.  demonstrably so.  get over it.
 
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