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(Gawker)   Syrian foreign minister says Syria will declare its chemical weapons arsenal, sign chemical weapons convention. Thanks Obama   (gawker.com) divider line 48
    More: Followup, Syrians, foreign ministers, chemical weapons arsenal, Syrian foreign minister, Secretary of State John Kerry, chemical weapons, arsenals  
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1146 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Sep 2013 at 6:22 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-10 04:45:39 PM  
8 votes:
So Obama avoided war, got a rouge nation to give up all of their chemical weapons and successfully worked with Russia with whom relations are strained with at the moment.  All of that while not really spending any money.  Clearly, he was outmaneuvered
2013-09-10 05:12:57 PM  
5 votes:
Anyone that still thinks this was all due to John Kerry making an off handed remark I have a bridge to sell you in New York

This was obviously put in action at the G20 retreat, Kerry's "bluff" allows Syria and Russia to save face by appearing to call it.

That being said remember that Libya gave up their nuclear program to the US in 2004 for normalization of relations and we still ended up bombing them

//the similarity between the Libyan AQ Khan gear and Iranian AQ Khan gear allowed us to build Stuxnet
2013-09-10 06:41:58 PM  
4 votes:

Cletus C.: Well, that sure was a big ol' fuss over nothing.


Not nothing. The United States took a stand against chemical weapons and won the point. Obama made clear that he was willing to spend political capital in furtherance of America's stated interest in preventing combatants anywhere in the world from deploying chemical weapons, and in this instance at least, Syria blinked first. It has the potential to be a significant diplomatic success.
2013-09-10 07:23:57 PM  
3 votes:
This is amazing.  Obama and Kerry really know how to get shiat done.  Let's face it, our evidence that Assad ordered the chemical weapon attack was weak, too weak to convince the world that we needed to take the action we have threatened. Way too weak to convince Congress and the American people that we would attack.  But Putin and Assad are acting like air strikes were a done deal, no matter what happened in Congress, no matter that polls showed the American people were against strikes, not matter whether Assad used civilians as human shields, no matter all the threats of retaliation by Syria and its allies, they're were still convinced that Obama would attack if it was not absolutely clear that Assad's chemical weapons were taken from him.  That is the only reason why this deal was seized by the Russians and Syrians with both hands, like a drowning man thrown a rope.  This is a huge win for Obama, he turned a weak hand into a winning hand by forcing his opponents to throw in their cards.  And this is a great precedent for the world, use chemical weapons, and you will be treated like a child getting his toy taken away.  Great job, Obama team,
2013-09-10 06:35:04 PM  
3 votes:
I love how the GOP now loves Putin because they percieve he's getting one over on Obama. Christ you idiots its just sad at this point.
2013-09-10 05:14:58 PM  
3 votes:
Obama rattled his sabre, scaring everybody about another war. He then had Kerry mentions off-handedly a peaceful way out- Syria hand over their chemical weapons. The Russians jumped on that idea, and once again Obama proves he's playing 3 dimensional chess while the rest of the world is playing checkers.
2013-09-10 08:38:41 PM  
2 votes:

the_dude_abides: TuteTibiImperes: Or, Obama and Putin have a chat at the G20 summit where they come up with a plan for Russia to pressure Syria to hand over the chemical weapons in exchange for no military strikes.

that's a cute narrative, but let's look at the facts. kerry made the offer in an off-the-cuff remark. he finished by saying it's impossible and has no chance of happening. and then the state department walked it back immediately after the press conference was done.

sorry, but i'll say it again -- anyone claiming the outcome we're seeing here is the result of the president's political genius is completely and utterly delusional. this is, at best, a fortunate turn of events that an incompetent administration stumbled onto by accident.


Fine, but I'll still take the results of Obama's accidental diplomacy over the GOP's intentional incompetence that bungled us into a decade of land war in Iraq.

Any. Farking. Day. Of. The. Week.
2013-09-10 07:16:54 PM  
2 votes:

Infernalist: But, again, who cares who gets the credit. The weapons are being neutralized and in my book, that's the only thing that matters.


4.bp.blogspot.com
2013-09-10 07:12:18 PM  
2 votes:

MyRandomName: Also remember. Iraq agreed to weapons inspectors too.


Yeah and they were there and found nothing, yet an idiot cowboy in the whitehouse made up some shiat and away we went? So what are you saying Mr. Un Diplomat?
2013-09-10 07:10:14 PM  
2 votes:
I honestly don't give the first fark who gets the credit for this resolution, so long as it gets done.

That said, we always say that politics is just kabuki theater, so why make an exception in this case.

G20 summit convenes, Russia and America compare notes on the situation and devise a means for the Russians to offer a 'surprise' solution that lets them appear constructive and helpful and 'not' answering to the whims of the American government...

The American government gets what it wants without the military action.

The Syrian government gets to stay in power.

Israel is no longer potentially threatened by CW attack.

An equitable solution where everyone gets to look mature and adult-like, no blood is shed, no treasure is wasted, there's no change to the status quo and some very dangerous weapons are taken and destroyed.

With that firmly in mind, does anyone here think that any of this could have been brought to resolution without all parties actually acting responsibly for once?

But, again, who cares who gets the credit.  The weapons are being neutralized and in my book, that's the only thing that matters.
2013-09-10 07:00:59 PM  
2 votes:

LasersHurt: jigger: I'm glad it worked out without the US getting into more bombing. But just because Obama and Kerry were able to save a little face in all this doesn't mean they're some kind of diplomatic geniuses.

It also does not mean that they accidentally arrived here, or are bad at diplomacy like so many seem to want to assert. This is not an accident, and it's not "Putin's Plan" as some news organizations are selling it.

Not that credit matters so much as peaceful resolution, of course.


I'm moderately happy in that the Russians were somewhat coerced into taking some responsibility for their client state. And that we didn't send in folks to bomb the crap out of folks already up their eyeballs in a round robin of conflict. There are no "good" sides in this mess, at least as far as US interests are concerned, and Russia stepping up is what should have happened at the outset. With Russia now on the hook, the Assad regime has embarrassed the Russians into cleaning up part of their mess, which means that the Eye of Sauron is pretty much on them. Which means that Russians will be making for damn sure to let them know to check their sh*t, because there is zero chance that they want the US, the French or the Brits anywhere near their Naval base, or interfering with their investments.

I said from the get go that nothing would happen without the Russians support, and that the issue was forced means that maybe the Russians will apply real pressure to end this mess.
2013-09-10 07:00:14 PM  
2 votes:

Fart_Machine: I'm sure Putin would totally have made this proposal if we hadn't made a stink about it. After all a few weeks ago he denied Syria even used chemical weapons.


We didn't "make a stink about it" - John Kerry responded to an ABC reporters question by exasperatedly and jokingly saying that Asaad could avoid military action by giving up all his weapons within a week but that he would never do it. The state department then immediately came out and said "by the way, he wasn't making an offer he was being rhetorical" and Kerry called the Russians saying "Hey, I was just joking."

Putin and Asaad called their bluff and it is a win\win for Russia and Obama comes out looking only moderately foolish while weakening our position in them Middle East and ceding some of that position to Russia. Putin gets what he wants, Asaad left in power (in fact Asaad, today, carried out damaging air strikes against rebel positions where before the planes had been grounded fearing an American attack) and Putin becomes the major Actor and player in the region. You realize that part of Putins offer includes a resolution on our part not to use military action against Syria.

So you've got the government that probably sold the weapons to Asaad in the first place saying they're gonna look after them, you've got the Government that's been beating the war drums heavy and hard for two weeks now, suddenly going "well, we don't *really* need to punish him, just getting the chemical weapons is enough" and now you've got the Rebels, who we're training and arming, suddenly faced with unrestrained attacks by Asaad and left on their own.

This whole thing was bungled and amateurish, there's no way Obama can claim a win out of this, at best he can claim that he didn't lose as big as he could have.
2013-09-10 05:18:38 PM  
2 votes:

Dinki: Obama rattled his sabre, scaring everybody about another war. He then had Kerry mentions off-handedly a peaceful way out- Syria hand over their chemical weapons. The Russians jumped on that idea, and once again Obama proves he's playing 3 dimensional chess while the rest of the world is playing checkers.


It did remind me a bit of how he had Biden float the expansion of gay rights to get a public pulse on it before the administration made their big push.
2013-09-10 05:13:52 PM  
2 votes:

DamnYankees: I'm still confused as to why anyone (i) thinks this is a "loss" for Obama or (ii) thinks about foreign policy in terms of political wins and losses and not substantive outcome.


I think it's a win for Obama.  There will be naysayers, but that's always the case.

As to your second point, anything politicians do is judged on its effect on their and their party's chances for re-election.  It's probably not great that it's that way, but it's the way it is.  There are a lot of things that would really help the nation like banking reform, immigration reform, minimum wage increases, the public option returning to the ACA, improved funding for education and social safety net programs, etc, that can't happen as long as the GOP controls any part of the government.  Anything that helps the Democrats strengthen their position and leads to eventual complete control of the Presidency, the Senate, and the House, is a good t hing.
2013-09-10 04:54:13 PM  
2 votes:
This is bad news.... for Halliburton.
2013-09-11 12:58:04 AM  
1 votes:

JohnnyBravo: Ummm, (if I can respectfully disagree), we will not allow "the Russians" to solely secure and destroy the Syrian CW stockpile.  Will not happen.  It can only be politically done via the UN and OPCW.  The Russians are good at CW...75% of their stockpile is destroyed under OPCW inspection.  We are good at CW too...I dont have time to wear my fingers to the nub to prove that I know.

The Russians have run rings around the State Dept on this.  No doubt about it.  Putin and his friends are very skilled at world diplonacy.  It is embarrassing.


I should have been more clear, the current deal on the table is that Syria put their CW stockpile under international control, which does mean the UN, but headed up by Russia in particular because of their relationship and close proximity to Syria, and their experience with such things. Yeah, we've got experience with this stuff too, but we are half a world away.

Don't know what you mean by they've "run rings around the State Dept" or what's so embarrassing about this, though. Every indication is that Obama and Putin discussed this very resolution at the G20 summit.
2013-09-11 12:56:25 AM  
1 votes:

max_pooper: Gyrfalcon: voristrupp: and further, assad and the rebels have discovered that the world has no will to interfere the next time they decide to use CW.

Seriously, the tokyo subway atacks demonsrrated that sarin is easy to make and not much is required to do real damage. all assad has to do is turn over 60% of his stockpile and say that's all he has. he doesn't need that much anyway to kill a bunch of civilians.

So let's bomb them anyway, is what you're saying?

Are you for going to war with Syria, or just pissed that we're NOT?

I think he's pissed that he can't be pissed about Obama bombing Syria.


In fairness, he DID spoil the chances of complaining bitterly about how badly Hillary and wimminfolk do in the Big Chair. He single handed derailed nearly a generation of attack ads that were planned, so there is that. That's a lot of rage to displace, after about 20 years of waiting...
2013-09-10 11:06:39 PM  
1 votes:

justaguy516: sno man: udhq: justaguy516: Anybody else think that Kerry should be fired now?

On what grounds?

Giving Assad an out?  Putin an opportunity to look like a deal maker? Smoking the stock prices of all those military suppliers?

How much face do you think he has lost in Israel and Palestine?


None. and Less than none respectively.

He makes an offhand suggestion, his own staff walks it back as a rhetoric (funny how everybody has forgotten that part), his president contradicts him public, he talks about 'unbelievably tiny' strikes?

yea and?  Obama gets to back off his red line, without looking too bad, Kerry gets to take credit for being the first to say it, Putin gets to say it was his idea and not get into a proxy war they can't afford. And like it or not, Assad at the moment is relatively stabilizing Syria.  There are too many factions all wanting some of the pie, until the rebels can unite, or one faction steps up, removing Assad would leave too big a vacuum.  And an even uglier war.
2013-09-10 11:00:36 PM  
1 votes:
Republicans really are upset by this. They so wanted to see dead American soldiers on the news so that they could shove it in Obama's face and now it's (most likely) not going to happen. And they can't stand it. Want proof? Just look at the way the right wingers are handling themselves in this thread, unable to appreciate that there might be a solution that doesn't involve the military.

Any way you cut it, whether Obama's a foreign policy genius or whether he merely stumbled on this solution, it's a good outcome to a shiatty situation. Not perfect, nobody's going to argue that it's perfect (but what in this world ever is), but it's pretty much the best outcome anyone could have hoped for. Putin gets to take credit for disarming and dismantling Assad's CW stockpiles, Assad doesn't get the shiat liberated out of him (apologies to whomever originally posted that upthread, but that's too good not to borrow), and the US gets to avoid another military excursion in the Middle East; it's a win-win-win.

/Serious about the "get the shiat liberated out of them" line, totally gonna be using that in conversation tomorrow.
//I'd look up whomever said it, but I'm farking fom my phone and it's kind of a hassle on the mobile site (ie, I'm drunk as a skunk).
2013-09-10 09:42:08 PM  
1 votes:

CanisNoir: Fart_Machine: I'm sure Putin would totally have made this proposal if we hadn't made a stink about it. After all a few weeks ago he denied Syria even used chemical weapons.

We didn't "make a stink about it" - John Kerry responded to an ABC reporters question by exasperatedly and jokingly saying that Asaad could avoid military action by giving up all his weapons within a week but that he would never do it. The state department then immediately came out and said "by the way, he wasn't making an offer he was being rhetorical" and Kerry called the Russians saying "Hey, I was just joking."

Putin and Asaad called their bluff and it is a win\win for Russia and Obama comes out looking only moderately foolish while weakening our position in them Middle East and ceding some of that position to Russia. Putin gets what he wants, Asaad left in power (in fact Asaad, today, carried out damaging air strikes against rebel positions where before the planes had been grounded fearing an American attack) and Putin becomes the major Actor and player in the region. You realize that part of Putins offer includes a resolution on our part not to use military action against Syria.

So you've got the government that probably sold the weapons to Asaad in the first place saying they're gonna look after them, you've got the Government that's been beating the war drums heavy and hard for two weeks now, suddenly going "well, we don't *really* need to punish him, just getting the chemical weapons is enough" and now you've got the Rebels, who we're training and arming, suddenly faced with unrestrained attacks by Asaad and left on their own.

This whole thing was bungled and amateurish, there's no way Obama can claim a win out of this, at best he can claim that he didn't lose as big as he could have.


I would say threatening military action would be quite the stink. And if Russia and Syria wanted to "call our bluff" they would have waited for the vote to go to Congress. Since they didn't and decided to broker a deal it looks like they took the threat seriously.
2013-09-10 09:22:22 PM  
1 votes:
There are some real idiots in this country.

If you don't think that Kerry's statement wasn't purposely floated out there for the world to hear the US was willing to give Assad a way to end this that didn't involve Tomahawks reigning down on him and him being hunted like Saddam, then you are a fool. And yes Putin was probably involved in the planning.
2013-09-10 09:20:20 PM  
1 votes:
A big part of the art of politics is getting the results you want while ensuring that your opponents don't come off as losers. If everyone wins (in truth or appearances) you have been successful.

In the end, it doesn't matter if Obama is a chess master or backwards bumbled into this. Everyone came out the winner, assuming it goes through.

Everyone except for the Super Patriots who are willing to cheer on ANY destruction of this country just to prove their point. It's quite horrifying, really, to see the amount pent up rage against Obama in this situation....and yet those same people truly belive that Reagan took down the Berlin Wall with his bare hands.
2013-09-10 09:18:30 PM  
1 votes:

the_dude_abides: TuteTibiImperes: Or, Obama and Putin have a chat at the G20 summit where they come up with a plan for Russia to pressure Syria to hand over the chemical weapons in exchange for no military strikes.

that's a cute narrative, but let's look at the facts. kerry made the offer in an off-the-cuff remark. he finished by saying it's impossible and has no chance of happening. and then the state department walked it back immediately after the press conference was done.

sorry, but i'll say it again -- anyone claiming the outcome we're seeing here is the result of the president's political genius is completely and utterly delusional. this is, at best, a fortunate turn of events that an incompetent administration stumbled onto by accident.


Except that Obama spoke to Putin regarding this solution way back at the G20 summit.  It sounds like there was a plan in the works to me.
2013-09-10 09:12:27 PM  
1 votes:
It seems like the arguments in this thread about how well Obama did come down to deciding whether it's better to be able to dig yourself out of the holes you get yourself into, or to be able to avoid getting into holes in the first place.My view: fair play to Obama and Putin for sorting this shiat out without it having to come to stuff getting blown up, a nice bit of choreography they've got going on. A long way short of the multi-dimensional chess strategy some are claiming, but at least the end result could be positive.**By positive, I don't actually mean 'good' so much as 'not as bad as it could have been'
2013-09-10 07:52:21 PM  
1 votes:

gilgigamesh: Even if this was accidental, he skated out of a Kobayashi Maru scenario. And no matter how you slice that, that is about as win as it gets here.


I would still consider it to be laying along the "lose" axis not the win. Right now, there's no hope that the chemical weapons can be secured and removed because the security to do so isn't there, not to mention it took Libya 8 years to get rid of theirs, while there were not embroiled in a civil war and had far fewer chemical weapons. Meanwhile, military strikes are *completely* off the table for the foreseeable future because Putin is making that part of his initial offer; sure we're going to negotiate on that, but Asaad doesn't have to worry about it while we're negotiating, so effectively, he now has carte blanche to do what he pleases.

...and at the end of the day, there's no guarantee that we can agree on a negotiated settlement to this and we might be right back here in a few weeks to a month down the line. The presidents speech is only going to be 15 minutes and he's going to mention a "Russian led proposal" which tells me he's already back tracking and will hope for a change of topic while Syria flows to the background of the American psyche.

I don't feel so rosy about this; would like it to work out, but I'm quite cynical about it.
2013-09-10 07:36:26 PM  
1 votes:

TFerWannaBe: I don't care who gets the credit or if it's a complete accident, I'm celebrating the US not bombing people.


Yeah, Obama's still gonna be heavy on the "They better do this, otherwise it's 'Bomb's Away'" tonight.
2013-09-10 07:22:39 PM  
1 votes:
I still think Obama should follow through on the alternative congressional resolution that authorizes force if Syria does not follow through.

Not so much for the additional gravitas, I think the way the situation has played out showed he doesn't need it, but rather to get all of congress to take a vote on record, especially the 7 senators and 40+ house members who publicly opposed the resolution after earlier criticizing Obama's "failure to act" in Syria.
2013-09-10 07:13:11 PM  
1 votes:
Gawd.

it must suck going through life as angry as i see a lot of Conservatives & Republicans being.

could you imagine?

wake up angry, go to sleep angry, there's a potentially peaceful solution to a serious international human rights issue angry.  did they want to see people killed? and if the CW situation wasn't resolved, more people gassed? so long as Obama is President during the act, sure.

and why, hate?  who in the hell harbors that much hate for one person?

no way to go through life son. it's not living.
2013-09-10 07:08:57 PM  
1 votes:
hey, maybe we can call this way of doing business "the accident doctrine" or something
2013-09-10 07:08:53 PM  
1 votes:

DamnYankees: I'm still confused as to why anyone (i) thinks this is a "loss" for Obama or (ii) thinks about foreign policy in terms of political wins and losses and not substantive outcome.


Because some people see politics as a zero-sum game. The way my friend explained it to me is that if you win, you get three points, if you lose, your enemy gets three points, and if you compromise your enemy gets three points. The reason some people see it that way is because they are, well, assholes. The same sort of people who think they lost their job because of Affirmative Action.
2013-09-10 07:03:12 PM  
1 votes:
I'll just be glad if the chem weapons are removed. Means the AQ rebels won't have a chance of getting them, which is the real danger to begin with.
2013-09-10 07:03:12 PM  
1 votes:

SnakeLee: So Obama avoided war, got a rouge nation to give up all of their chemical weapons and successfully worked with Russia with whom relations are strained with at the moment.  All of that while not really spending any money.  Clearly, he was outmaneuvered


Obama did nothing. Nothing.

Kerry made an unscripted commebt and said X would never happen. His aides and the white house back tracked on the comment hours later saying it wasn't a real offer.

Putin calls Syria and forms an agreement.

Kerry and Obama backtrack on their backtrack and declare victory. Idiot liberals praise Obama.
2013-09-10 06:51:51 PM  
1 votes:

Target Builder: Are they talking about Protocol II of the Geneva Convention? Or is there another chemical weapons convention?


The Chemical Weapons Convention is separate. In addition to the Geneva convention prohibitions on using CW, it also outlaws stockpiling and developing them. It also, IIRC, has verification mechanisms so it's not just a paper tiger.

So regarding this whole affair:
a) this is far from over. The resolutions by France and Russia are miles apart. This could all still fall apart.
b) they blundered into this solution, but it was a nifty intersection of mistake, circumstance, and initiative.
2013-09-10 06:51:50 PM  
1 votes:
Lt. Cheese Weasel:


I'm sorry that things didn't turn out more disastrous so that you could rub death and war in the faces of everyone who supports out President.
2013-09-10 06:45:17 PM  
1 votes:

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Liberal DerpCon5.

Putin's Proposal to the UN over Syrian Chemical weapons WAS ACTUALLY OBAMA'S!  GENIUS!!!!


I'm sure Putin would totally have made this proposal if we hadn't made a stink about it. After all a few weeks ago he denied Syria even used chemical weapons.
2013-09-10 06:41:26 PM  
1 votes:

jigger: LasersHurt: jigger: SnakeLee: So Obama avoided war, got a rouge nation to give up all of their chemical weapons and successfully worked with Russia with whom relations are strained with at the moment.  All of that while not really spending any money.  Clearly, he was outmaneuvered

Obama and Kerry pretty much blundered into the whole thing. Whatever. I'll take it.

Whatever you need to tell yourself.

It was all an elaborate plan by that genius, John F. Kerry.


It doesn't have to be an elaborate masterstroke, either. It can just be things sort of working out pretty well with some solid international diplomacy.
2013-09-10 06:39:32 PM  
1 votes:
Liberal DerpCon5.

Putin's Proposal to the UN over Syrian Chemical weapons WAS ACTUALLY OBAMA'S!  GENIUS!!!!
2013-09-10 06:37:42 PM  
1 votes:

SnakeLee: So Obama avoided war, got a rouge nation to give up all of their chemical weapons and successfully worked with Russia with whom relations are strained with at the moment.  All of that while not really spending any money.  Clearly, he was outmaneuvered


Obama and Kerry pretty much blundered into the whole thing. Whatever. I'll take it.
2013-09-10 06:36:17 PM  
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: Assad still needs to be bombed to pieces, just on principal.
Obama looks weak for not being punitive after a chemical attack.
It's pretty sad when a tin-pot freak like Assad can play the United States for a fool.


Stop, just stop. Your trolls are weaker than Christian Ponder's throws down field.
2013-09-10 06:32:09 PM  
1 votes:
4.bp.blogspot.comThank YOU Pooty Poot!
Give that man a Nobel peace prize!
2013-09-10 06:30:01 PM  
1 votes:
Hey let's wait until the weapons are declared and handed over before we debate on whether it's a win/lose.
2013-09-10 05:37:25 PM  
1 votes:

hubiestubert: It avoids a loss of face for the Russians, it gives Obama a "carry a big stick" win, and it allows the Syrians to not get the sh*t "liberated" out of themselves.

Clearly this is intolerable, so we will see this spun as the horriblest thing to happen since the $63,000,000 dog walking for the First Puppy...


If Neil Armstrong had been black these guys would have declared the Apollo missions to be the low point of American achievement.
2013-09-10 05:30:06 PM  
1 votes:
It avoids a loss of face for the Russians, it gives Obama a "carry a big stick" win, and it allows the Syrians to not get the sh*t "liberated" out of themselves.

Clearly this is intolerable, so we will see this spun as the horriblest thing to happen since the $63,000,000 dog walking for the First Puppy...
2013-09-10 05:27:28 PM  
1 votes:

zedster: Libya


That's the real win here: Syria is unstable, and has chemical weapons. If the Assad regime collapses, those weapons could fall into the hands of some pretty bad people.

Libya has become a clusterfark. Imagine the horror if their nuke hardware was not sitting in a Tennessee warehouse right now.

That's why everyone should be happy about this outcome.
2013-09-10 05:23:07 PM  
1 votes:

Rev. Skarekroe: Obama?
[newnation.sg image 468x560]

How 'bout a little love for Vlad "The Impaler" Putin?


Putin was the instrument, Obama was the musician.
2013-09-10 05:20:52 PM  
1 votes:

DamnYankees: I'm still confused as to why anyone (i) thinks this is a "loss" for Obama or (ii) thinks about foreign policy in terms of political wins and losses and not substantive outcome.


Dude - you think the GOP was against bombing Assad on some kind of principle? You think they didn't want to see Obama make things go BOOM? They just didn't want him to get any credit for what they beat-off to.
2013-09-10 05:06:35 PM  
1 votes:

Cletus C.: Well, that sure was a big ol' fuss over nothing.


It is interesting that the "liberal media" never talked about removing the chemical weapons. It was ONLY about attack.

We are a war mongering nation, barely distinguishable for the middle east (other than we do all our killing outside our borders).
2013-09-10 04:54:31 PM  
1 votes:
I'm still confused as to why anyone (i) thinks this is a "loss" for Obama or (ii) thinks about foreign policy in terms of political wins and losses and not substantive outcome.
 
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