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(Gawker)   Syrian foreign minister says Syria will declare its chemical weapons arsenal, sign chemical weapons convention. Thanks Obama   (gawker.com) divider line 263
    More: Followup, Syrians, foreign ministers, chemical weapons arsenal, Syrian foreign minister, Secretary of State John Kerry, chemical weapons, arsenals  
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1146 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Sep 2013 at 6:22 PM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-10 08:22:22 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Or, Obama and Putin have a chat at the G20 summit where they come up with a plan for Russia to pressure Syria to hand over the chemical weapons in exchange for no military strikes.


that's a cute narrative, but let's look at the facts. kerry made the offer in an off-the-cuff remark. he finished by saying it's impossible and has no chance of happening. and then the state department walked it back immediately after the press conference was done.

sorry, but i'll say it again -- anyone claiming the outcome we're seeing here is the result of the president's political genius is completely and utterly delusional. this is, at best, a fortunate turn of events that an incompetent administration stumbled onto by accident.
 
2013-09-10 08:23:43 PM
 
2013-09-10 08:26:51 PM

the_dude_abides: sorry, but i'll say it again -- anyone claiming the outcome we're seeing here is the result of the president's political genius is completely and utterly delusional. this is, at best, a fortunate turn of events that an incompetent administration stumbled onto by accident.


This.
It wasn't Obama's eleven dimensional chess, it was pure Putin pulling the strings to make thins happen the way he needed to make them happen making Obama the Peace Prize winner look like a war stooge, which he is, but I digress.
 
2013-09-10 08:27:42 PM

the_dude_abides: this is, at best, a fortunate turn of events that an incompetent administration stumbled onto by accident.


Wow, good thing we have such a brilliant geopolitical expert like you to tell us how this all played out. Otherwise we might think that Obama got exactly what he wanted without having to fire a shot.
 
2013-09-10 08:29:34 PM

Agneska: lacrossestar83: Infernalist: But, again, who cares who gets the credit. The weapons are being neutralized and in my book, that's the only thing that matters.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 227x320]

O yea, let the dog-and-pony show begin! And don't skimp on the kool-aid. Refreshing!


Care to elaborate?
 
2013-09-10 08:29:44 PM

LasersHurt: Befuddled: How long until the rightwing lunatics say this was a conspiracy between Obama and Assad to make Obama look better?

They're running with "it makes him look even worse, for reasons".


It kind of does if you have better than a middle-school grasp of the realpolitik going on here.
And there are very real and pretty huge reasons that Putin wins with Assad not bombed into hell and still able to be his lapdog.
 
2013-09-10 08:30:58 PM

Dinki: SenorBenedict: MyRandomName: Also remember. Iraq agreed to weapons inspectors too.

Yeah and they were there and found nothing, yet an idiot cowboy in the whitehouse made up some shiat and away we went? So what are you saying Mr. Un Diplomat?

You got to wonder how far into the echo chamber MyRandomName  has wandered that he thinks the Iraqi Weapons inspectors failed. I'm betting he thinks WMD are still in Iraq, just really really well hidden.


My bet: he thinks they got shipped to Syria. As evidenced by the fact that they got used in Syria just recently. Note this doesn't preclude making the case that Syria didn't use them at a later date if necessary.
 
2013-09-10 08:32:08 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: It kind of does if you have better than a middle-school grasp of the realpolitik going on here.
And there are very real and pretty huge reasons that Putin wins with Assad not bombed into hell and still able to be his lapdog.


Remember folks, you got to study it out!
 
2013-09-10 08:32:20 PM

Dinki: Wow, good thing we have such a brilliant geopolitical expert like you to tell us how this all played out. Otherwise we might think that Obama got exactly what he wanted without having to fire a shot.


uhh... go read a few posts up where i said that this isn't a done deal and it's not time to claim victory yet. obama hasn't gotten anything yet, neither has anyone else. there's a deal in the works right now, but that's it. in fact, russia is in the process of drafting their own resolution because they don't like the strong wording france put forward. it's all pretty delicate at this point.
 
2013-09-10 08:33:46 PM

Dinki: HotIgneous Intruder: It kind of does if you have better than a middle-school grasp of the realpolitik going on here.
And there are very real and pretty huge reasons that Putin wins with Assad not bombed into hell and still able to be his lapdog.

Remember folks, you got to study it out!


I said it was because "reasons." Turns out I was right.
 
2013-09-10 08:34:48 PM
Obama didn't really want to go to war?
 
2013-09-10 08:35:25 PM
Good news, now Assad will have to kill people with conventional weapons. After all, having half your body blown off by a bomb and slowly dying in a pile of your own insides is so much better than choking on some chemicals.
 
2013-09-10 08:35:35 PM

the_dude_abides: obama sackriders pretending this outcome is some kind of masterstroke in the president's genius plan is the most sad and delusional derp i've seen in a long time... jebus, you mouth-breathers just went megaton in the special olympics


I love it.  All you do is complain about libtards and obama shills while everyone else is actually having an honest discussion.  I'm sure the irony is not lost on you.
 
2013-09-10 08:36:13 PM
Bashar Assad has surely learned his lesson, and will elevate the Kremlin from "speed dial" to "special red phone" whenever he's confronted with international outcry.
 
2013-09-10 08:37:15 PM

freak7: Good news, now Assad will have to kill people with conventional weapons. After all, having half your body blown off by a bomb and slowly dying in a pile of your own insides is so much better than choking on some chemicals.


The good news is, assuming this actually happens, CW won't be in danger of getting in the hands of terrorists.  I don't think we should be involved at all militarily, what about you?
 
2013-09-10 08:38:41 PM

the_dude_abides: TuteTibiImperes: Or, Obama and Putin have a chat at the G20 summit where they come up with a plan for Russia to pressure Syria to hand over the chemical weapons in exchange for no military strikes.

that's a cute narrative, but let's look at the facts. kerry made the offer in an off-the-cuff remark. he finished by saying it's impossible and has no chance of happening. and then the state department walked it back immediately after the press conference was done.

sorry, but i'll say it again -- anyone claiming the outcome we're seeing here is the result of the president's political genius is completely and utterly delusional. this is, at best, a fortunate turn of events that an incompetent administration stumbled onto by accident.


Fine, but I'll still take the results of Obama's accidental diplomacy over the GOP's intentional incompetence that bungled us into a decade of land war in Iraq.

Any. Farking. Day. Of. The. Week.
 
2013-09-10 08:40:32 PM

Almost Everybody Poops: I love it.  All you do is complain about libtards and obama shills while everyone else is actually having an honest discussion.  I'm sure the irony is not lost on you.


lol in fark politics "everyone else is actually having an honest discussion" = democrats patting each other on the back and agreeing with one another

plus i just love talking shiat, can't you tell?
 
2013-09-10 08:41:13 PM
The first opening move on the political chess board; and already the libtards are calling it a win for Obama,

\Drew, educate your kids for chrissake
 
2013-09-10 08:41:52 PM

another cultural observer: Bashar Assad has surely learned his lesson, and will elevate the Kremlin from "speed dial" to "special red phone" whenever he's confronted with international outcry.


Right, because before this Syria and Russia were barely speaking and now they are BFFs.
 
2013-09-10 08:44:55 PM

udhq: Fine, but I'll still take the results of Obama's accidental diplomacy over the GOP's intentional incompetence that bungled us into a decade of land war in Iraq.

Any. Farking. Day. Of. The. Week.


There.  I don't by any means consider this a "victory" for Obama, but a favorable-but-unintended outcome is preferable than a war nobody really wanted, or complete inaction when a psychopathic despot starts gassing his own people.
 
2013-09-10 08:45:43 PM

LasersHurt: Dinki: HotIgneous Intruder: It kind of does if you have better than a middle-school grasp of the realpolitik going on here.
And there are very real and pretty huge reasons that Putin wins with Assad not bombed into hell and still able to be his lapdog.

Remember folks, you got to study it out!

I said it was because "reasons." Turns out I was right.


So you're saying you don't understand why Putin did this.
 
2013-09-10 08:46:24 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if we ended up hitting Syria anyway.
 
2013-09-10 08:46:55 PM

udhq: Fine, but I'll still take the results of Obama's accidental diplomacy over the GOP's intentional incompetence that bungled us into a decade of land war in Iraq.

Any. Farking. Day. Of. The. Week.


hey, you remember when gaddafi gave up his chemical weapons program because bush leaned on him and he was afraid of being invaded like iraq?

the thing you're celebrating -- which btw hasn't happened yet in the case of syria -- is something bush actually accomplished last decade. what results are YOU talking about? obama getting himself out of a situation he got into in the first place?
 
2013-09-10 08:47:17 PM

LasersHurt: Tigger: hubiestubert: It avoids a loss of face for the Russians, it gives Obama a "carry a big stick" win, and it allows the Syrians to not get the sh*t "liberated" out of themselves.

Clearly this is intolerable, so we will see this spun as the horriblest thing to happen since the $63,000,000 dog walking for the First Puppy...

If Neil Armstrong had been black these guys would have declared the Apollo missions to be the low point of American achievement.

MOON BESMIRCHED BY ASTRONAUT PROXIMITY


....."besmirched"???
 
2013-09-10 08:49:10 PM

freak7: Good news, now Assad will have to kill people with conventional weapons. After all, having half your body blown off by a bomb and slowly dying in a pile of your own insides is so much better than choking on some chemicals.


You do realize the US Civil War was the bloodiest in American history and the Government won. That was fought with muskets and 12 and 24 PD canon for the most part.

Small release of chemical weapons aren't the problem, the problem would be if their use became normalized. I read somewhere at one point in the cold war an exchange of CW could kill millions of people in Germany as well as the pollen carrying insects. Some CW have a slow deterioration rate so they can be toxic for a week or so.. It's a bad road to go down. I'm glad we have an option now other than bombing the Syrian government forces and actually increasing the chance that CW would fall into terrorist hands.
 
2013-09-10 08:49:50 PM
cameroncrazy1984
Obama lost because furthermore

Because the geo-political goal was to bomb the Ba'ath party's military, because they're kicking the shiat out of the rebels since Hezbollah entered the war. The CWs were an excuse.
 
2013-09-10 08:50:25 PM

Gyrfalcon: LasersHurt: Tigger: hubiestubert: It avoids a loss of face for the Russians, it gives Obama a "carry a big stick" win, and it allows the Syrians to not get the sh*t "liberated" out of themselves.

Clearly this is intolerable, so we will see this spun as the horriblest thing to happen since the $63,000,000 dog walking for the First Puppy...

If Neil Armstrong had been black these guys would have declared the Apollo missions to be the low point of American achievement.

MOON BESMIRCHED BY ASTRONAUT PROXIMITY

....."besmirched"???


Besmirched.
Study it out.
 
2013-09-10 08:51:19 PM

Gyrfalcon: LasersHurt: Tigger: hubiestubert: It avoids a loss of face for the Russians, it gives Obama a "carry a big stick" win, and it allows the Syrians to not get the sh*t "liberated" out of themselves.

Clearly this is intolerable, so we will see this spun as the horriblest thing to happen since the $63,000,000 dog walking for the First Puppy...

If Neil Armstrong had been black these guys would have declared the Apollo missions to be the low point of American achievement.

MOON BESMIRCHED BY ASTRONAUT PROXIMITY

....."besmirched"???


It's not entirely inappropriate. I suppose Befouled would be better though.
 
2013-09-10 08:58:12 PM
Fox News front page:
"HITTING 'PAUSE' ON STRIKE VOTE Obama to ask Congress to hold off"

"Secretary of State Kerry now claims credit for Syria weapons proposal"

"OPINION: Putin deserves that Nobel Prize"

" VIDEO: What Obama must say"

"KURTZ: Obama's muddled message"

They're pretty upset.
 
2013-09-10 08:59:29 PM

the_dude_abides: Almost Everybody Poops: I love it.  All you do is complain about libtards and obama shills while everyone else is actually having an honest discussion.  I'm sure the irony is not lost on you.

lol in fark politics "everyone else is actually having an honest discussion" = democrats patting each other on the back and agreeing with one another

plus i just love talking shiat, can't you tell?


Your problem is you focus on one side of the "honest discussion" and blast it as if that's what I was talking about.  The "honest discussion" I see is on whether or not this is an overall win or loss for Obama and the skepticism of Russia/Syria following through.

But yeah, I agree with your second point.
 
2013-09-10 09:05:11 PM

the_dude_abides: udhq: Fine, but I'll still take the results of Obama's accidental diplomacy over the GOP's intentional incompetence that bungled us into a decade of land war in Iraq.

Any. Farking. Day. Of. The. Week.

hey, you remember when gaddafi gave up his chemical weapons program because bush leaned on him and he was afraid of being invaded like iraq?

the thing you're celebrating -- which btw hasn't happened yet in the case of syria -- is something bush actually accomplished last decade. what results are YOU talking about? obama getting himself out of a situation he got into in the first place?


Go ahead and believe what you want, but you're living in a fantasy world if you honestly think the "red line" bit or Kerry's comments were accidents.
 
2013-09-10 09:06:53 PM
absolutely, 100%, no doubt the best possible outcome in this situation if it actually comes to pass and we are able to verify and continue verifying the abandonment of weapons programs
 
2013-09-10 09:09:04 PM

gilgigamesh: man, this thread is one bright-red sea of Derp. Obama must have pissed off all the right people.


That's the key to success: when all the derpy trolls are in more of a fervor than usual, Democrats have done something right.
 
2013-09-10 09:10:05 PM
Really, I'm confused.

Just a few days ago I was called a right wing fascist for not supporting Obama's drums for war. That was confusing enough. Now that US military action have been, thankfully, diverted, I'm reading that it is Obama's master stroke or something. Which is more confusing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad of the outcome. But I though we had to go save those poor people, or something?

Is this just a case of shills gonna shill?
 
2013-09-10 09:11:09 PM

sendtodave: Really, I'm confused.

Just a few days ago I was called a right wing fascist for not supporting Obama's drums for war. That was confusing enough. Now that US military action have been, thankfully, diverted, I'm reading that it is Obama's master stroke or something. Which is more confusing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad of the outcome. But I though we had to go save those poor people, or something?

Is this just a case of shills gonna shill?


Transdimensional chess. He plays it with both hands at once.
 
2013-09-10 09:12:27 PM
It seems like the arguments in this thread about how well Obama did come down to deciding whether it's better to be able to dig yourself out of the holes you get yourself into, or to be able to avoid getting into holes in the first place.My view: fair play to Obama and Putin for sorting this shiat out without it having to come to stuff getting blown up, a nice bit of choreography they've got going on. A long way short of the multi-dimensional chess strategy some are claiming, but at least the end result could be positive.**By positive, I don't actually mean 'good' so much as 'not as bad as it could have been'
 
2013-09-10 09:14:32 PM
Obama just keeps on WINNING
I can't wait to taste the Republican tears tomorrow.
 
2013-09-10 09:16:44 PM

SnakeLee: So Obama avoided war, got a rouge nation to give up all of their chemical weapons and successfully worked with Russia with whom relations are strained with at the moment.  All of that while not really spending any money.  Clearly, he was outmaneuvered


I hate rouge nations, mascara nations, and eyeliner nations!!
 
2013-09-10 09:18:30 PM

the_dude_abides: TuteTibiImperes: Or, Obama and Putin have a chat at the G20 summit where they come up with a plan for Russia to pressure Syria to hand over the chemical weapons in exchange for no military strikes.

that's a cute narrative, but let's look at the facts. kerry made the offer in an off-the-cuff remark. he finished by saying it's impossible and has no chance of happening. and then the state department walked it back immediately after the press conference was done.

sorry, but i'll say it again -- anyone claiming the outcome we're seeing here is the result of the president's political genius is completely and utterly delusional. this is, at best, a fortunate turn of events that an incompetent administration stumbled onto by accident.


Except that Obama spoke to Putin regarding this solution way back at the G20 summit.  It sounds like there was a plan in the works to me.
 
2013-09-10 09:18:51 PM
Anybody else think that Kerry should be fired now?
 
2013-09-10 09:20:15 PM

Begoggle: Obama just keeps on WINNING
I can't wait to taste the Republican tears tomorrow.


you can probably get the HIV that way
 
2013-09-10 09:20:20 PM
A big part of the art of politics is getting the results you want while ensuring that your opponents don't come off as losers. If everyone wins (in truth or appearances) you have been successful.

In the end, it doesn't matter if Obama is a chess master or backwards bumbled into this. Everyone came out the winner, assuming it goes through.

Everyone except for the Super Patriots who are willing to cheer on ANY destruction of this country just to prove their point. It's quite horrifying, really, to see the amount pent up rage against Obama in this situation....and yet those same people truly belive that Reagan took down the Berlin Wall with his bare hands.
 
2013-09-10 09:20:22 PM

skullkrusher: sendtodave: Really, I'm confused.

Just a few days ago I was called a right wing fascist for not supporting Obama's drums for war. That was confusing enough. Now that US military action have been, thankfully, diverted, I'm reading that it is Obama's master stroke or something. Which is more confusing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad of the outcome. But I though we had to go save those poor people, or something?

Is this just a case of shills gonna shill?

Transdimensional chess. He plays it with both hands at once.


I'm more questioning the support. And the weird rationalizations.

"We should go to war." "Right on! Flex your muscles, Obama!"

"Never mind." "Brilliant! Way to outfox them, Obama! We never wanted war at all!"
 
2013-09-10 09:22:01 PM

sendtodave: skullkrusher: sendtodave: Really, I'm confused.

Just a few days ago I was called a right wing fascist for not supporting Obama's drums for war. That was confusing enough. Now that US military action have been, thankfully, diverted, I'm reading that it is Obama's master stroke or something. Which is more confusing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad of the outcome. But I though we had to go save those poor people, or something?

Is this just a case of shills gonna shill?

Transdimensional chess. He plays it with both hands at once.

I'm more questioning the support. And the weird rationalizations.

"We should go to war." "Right on! Flex your muscles, Obama!"

"Never mind." "Brilliant! Way to outfox them, Obama! We never wanted war at all!"


keep walking through it. I think you'll come up with an explanation as to why some people say such apparently contradictory things.
 
2013-09-10 09:22:22 PM
There are some real idiots in this country.

If you don't think that Kerry's statement wasn't purposely floated out there for the world to hear the US was willing to give Assad a way to end this that didn't involve Tomahawks reigning down on him and him being hunted like Saddam, then you are a fool. And yes Putin was probably involved in the planning.
 
2013-09-10 09:25:14 PM

ongbok: There are some real idiots in this country.

If you don't think that Kerry's statement wasn't purposely floated out there for the world to hear the US was willing to give Assad a way to end this that didn't involve Tomahawks reigning down on him and him being hunted like Saddam, then you are a fool. And yes Putin was probably involved in the planning.


in text it didn't appear that way. Watching the tape, it certainly did.
 
2013-09-10 09:26:31 PM
Ok, cool. If that's true, my faith is restored somewhat. And all you guys who supported Obama and kerry in their case for war can go blow. Because apparently he didn't even want that.

Useful idiots should at least be useful.
 
2013-09-10 09:27:19 PM

skullkrusher: sendtodave: skullkrusher: sendtodave: Really, I'm confused.

Just a few days ago I was called a right wing fascist for not supporting Obama's drums for war. That was confusing enough. Now that US military action have been, thankfully, diverted, I'm reading that it is Obama's master stroke or something. Which is more confusing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad of the outcome. But I though we had to go save those poor people, or something?

Is this just a case of shills gonna shill?

Transdimensional chess. He plays it with both hands at once.

I'm more questioning the support. And the weird rationalizations.

"We should go to war." "Right on! Flex your muscles, Obama!"

"Never mind." "Brilliant! Way to outfox them, Obama! We never wanted war at all!"

keep walking through it. I think you'll come up with an explanation as to why some people say such apparently contradictory things.


Shills gonna shill.
 
2013-09-10 09:30:43 PM

justaguy516: Anybody else think that Kerry should be fired now?


On what grounds?
 
2013-09-10 09:33:36 PM
This is a brilliant move by both Putin and Assad.  Assad declares HIS chemical weapons, allowing Russia (?) to store them out of control of Syria; all this knowing any WMD's declared can be replaced by the Iraqi WMDs transferred to Syria 10 years ago, thus living up to his word and still having a chemical arsenal..

Winning!

//Should the transfer of WMDs take place, this probably is the best we can hope for in this situation.. IMO.
 
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