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(Pajiba)   When the showrunners of Game of Thrones came to GRR Martin to get permission to make the show, after a 5 hour meeting he asked them a test question to see if they "got" the books: "Who is Jon Snow's real mother?"   (pajiba.com) divider line 105
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7355 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 10 Sep 2013 at 6:01 PM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-10 07:48:19 PM

Dingleberry Dickwad: Texian: But Jon Snow still knows nothing?

Knew enough to turn Ygritte's crank.


I'd like to be her Fist of The First Men, if you know what I mean.
 
2013-09-10 08:02:18 PM

Capo Del Bandito: Ahh so they based it on Romance of the 3 Kingdoms instead of the histories.


Well, that's no surprise. It's the novel that made that chapter of history particularly famous today.
 
2013-09-10 08:04:18 PM

kronicfeld: Slaxl: I don't keep up on theories, but I do remember whilst reading it thinking that Ned might not be the father, but she might, but I can't remember when I thought that, or why. It was too long ago.

The quick rundown:

The more we hear about him, Rhaegar wasn't the monster that his father was. He was a fairly reasonable and honorable dude, in that context at least. There's actually a supportable side theory that he was planning a coup to depose his insane father. He didn't actually "abduct" Lyanna; that is what Robert chooses to believe because he was in love with her. Rather, they ran away together. Lyanna was being protected at the Tower of Joy by three of the Kingsguard, including Rhaegar's best friend, who had no reason to be standing between Ned and a simple prisoner of war. Ned found Lyanna in a "bed of blood," strongly implying childbirth, especially because there's never been any implication that anyone willfully injured her. Lyanna make Ned "promise" something, likely to keep secret her son's lineage, as his life would be forfeit if Robert ever found out (see, e.g., Robert calling out a hit on Dany and Viserys). Ned sacrifices his honor and lies that he knocked up a maid to create a cover story for Jon's existence.


I used to think that way, but more and more I think Lyanna was knocked up by Robert B. before she ran off with Rhaegar.  The very first HBO episode they make a point about Jon's "hair," and how he doesn't want to cut it.  I think they do that so later we'll facepalm and go, "Of course his hair is black."  There are too many similarities between Jon and Robert, too many stories about Robert's bastards, and it would be a perfect match when he ends up with Dany.  Together they will represent the three heads -- Targaryan, Baratheon and Stark.
 
2013-09-10 08:05:55 PM

Esroc: It's so obvious that Jon is a Targaryean that if it turns out that he's not it'll only be because Martin decided to change it last minute.

/Gave up on the books second one in.
//The show wasn't any better.


Then why are you posting here?
 
2013-09-10 08:08:00 PM

desertmouse: I used to think that way, but more and more I think Lyanna was knocked up by Robert B. before she ran off with Rhaegar.  The very first HBO episode they make a point about Jon's "hair," and how he doesn't want to cut it.  I think they do that so later we'll facepalm and go, "Of course his hair is black."  There are too many similarities between Jon and Robert, too many stories about Robert's bastards, and it would be a perfect match when he ends up with Dany.  Together they will represent the three heads -- Targaryan, Baratheon and Stark.


If this was true, why would Robert ask Nedd, in a private conversation between the two of them, who Jon's mother was? There'd be no need to keep up any kind of ruse between the two of them.
 
2013-09-10 08:17:58 PM

DamnYankees: desertmouse: I used to think that way, but more and more I think Lyanna was knocked up by Robert B. before she ran off with Rhaegar.  The very first HBO episode they make a point about Jon's "hair," and how he doesn't want to cut it.  I think they do that so later we'll facepalm and go, "Of course his hair is black."  There are too many similarities between Jon and Robert, too many stories about Robert's bastards, and it would be a perfect match when he ends up with Dany.  Together they will represent the three heads -- Targaryan, Baratheon and Stark.

If this was true, why would Robert ask Nedd, in a private conversation between the two of them, who Jon's mother was? There'd be no need to keep up any kind of ruse between the two of them.


Robert may no know.

I think it is pretty thin, but it is still possible.

Ned doesn't want it known that his sister had sex out of wedlock.
 
2013-09-10 08:19:47 PM

liam76: Robert may no know.

I think it is pretty thin, but it is still possible.

Ned doesn't want it known that his sister had sex out of wedlock.


I just don't see why anyone thinks these are  betterexplanations than Lyanna being the mother. What's wrong with that theory which requires searching for stranger ones?
 
2013-09-10 08:20:09 PM

desertmouse: Together they will represent the three heads -- Targaryan, Baratheon and Stark.


The third head will be Lannister. Victarion delivers the dragon horn to Tyrion who uses it to tame a dragon and becomes a trusted adviser to Dany.
 
2013-09-10 08:33:20 PM

nmrsnr: DamnYankees: Didn't Aegon die when he was a baby?

Spoilers: It doesn't look that way in book 5.


Errr...more potential spoilers for your spoilers: he may not be what he claims to be and Daenerys was warned about the mummer's dragon.

Reading the short stories (featuring Dunk and Egg) and the references to Aegor "Bittersteel" Rivers and the Golden Company actually supporting "Young Griff" and it's possible that we may be looking at a potential Blackfyre Rebellion part 3.  Why else would a mercenary company founded by Blackfyre rebels aid a Targaryen?
 
2013-09-10 08:34:06 PM

liam76: DamnYankees: desertmouse: I used to think that way, but more and more I think Lyanna was knocked up by Robert B. before she ran off with Rhaegar.  The very first HBO episode they make a point about Jon's "hair," and how he doesn't want to cut it.  I think they do that so later we'll facepalm and go, "Of course his hair is black."  There are too many similarities between Jon and Robert, too many stories about Robert's bastards, and it would be a perfect match when he ends up with Dany.  Together they will represent the three heads -- Targaryan, Baratheon and Stark.

If this was true, why would Robert ask Nedd, in a private conversation between the two of them, who Jon's mother was? There'd be no need to keep up any kind of ruse between the two of them.

Robert may no know.

I think it is pretty thin, but it is still possible.

Ned doesn't want it known that his sister had sex out of wedlock.


It's tissue paper thin and extremely unlikely. He's been described as looking more like he's from the Stark bloodline than Ned's other kids with the dark hair, long face and dark eyes, and family genetics have been playing a pretty big role in the series.
 
2013-09-10 08:43:20 PM

Romanes Eunt Domus: nmrsnr: DamnYankees: Didn't Aegon die when he was a baby?

Spoilers: It doesn't look that way in book 5.

Errr...more potential spoilers for your spoilers: he may not be what he claims to be and Daenerys was warned about the mummer's dragon.

Reading the short stories (featuring Dunk and Egg) and the references to Aegor "Bittersteel" Rivers and the Golden Company actually supporting "Young Griff" and it's possible that we may be looking at a potential Blackfyre Rebellion part 3.  Why else would a mercenary company founded by Blackfyre rebels aid a Targaryen?


My reaction (too big to embed)

/couldn't find a table flipping gif/
//gotta finish Book 5 omg it's so loooong
 
2013-09-10 08:49:16 PM
Then he asked them to name any other book he'd written and they were confused.
 
2013-09-10 09:02:16 PM

Texian: Dingleberry Dickwad: Texian: But Jon Snow still knows nothing?

Knew enough to turn Ygritte's crank.

I'd like to be her Fist of The First Men, if you know what I mean.


I'd rather be the first man to fist her...

/unless that's what you mean
//in that case, I know nothing
 
2013-09-10 09:03:15 PM

shadent: personally I think he must be Lyanna and Rhaegar's kid. There has to be a rider for each dragon, Daenerys, Aegon and Jon. I also think Melisandre will burn Jon but he'll survive just like Daenerys did


Jon was badly burned when he grabbed the lamp to set the undead wight on fire when it attacked the Lord Commander. That doesn't mean he's NOT of Targaryen blood - Viserys died when molten gold was dumped on his head. But that means that he can't survive being burned.

nmrsnr: kronicfeld: The quick rundown:

While you're probably right, and I don't spend much time on textual analysis, this answer bothers me because Jon doesn't look like a Targaryen, he has dark hair and dark eyes, as far as I recall. Meanwhile, the other son of Rhaegar, Aegon, has both the silvery hair and the violet eyes of the Targaryens, even though his mother was Dornish, who have dark hair and dark eyes, so the recessive gene argument for hiding the traits in Jon doesn't really work.

So while that's probably the correct answer, I really don't want it to be.


Considering that Elia was described as "sickly" her entire adult life, and that the trauma of having two children nearly killed her, I'm going for the assumption that her genes were weak, and that allowed her husband's family traits to show in her children. Lyanna was headstrong, and it has even been implied that she fought in tourneys disguised as a knight. For a girl to wear all that armor and still fight means she comes from strong stock.

I can see it working. My bf is the splitting image of his father with brown hair and brown eyes. He was the only child born from his parents, and when his father died and mother remarried, his half brothers and sister have blonde hair like their mother despite the fact their father has black hair and brown eyes.
 
2013-09-10 09:05:46 PM
I've always liked G.R.R. Martin's writing, especially The Lord of the Rings.
 
2013-09-10 09:12:03 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: I've always liked G.R.R. Martin's writing, especially The Lord of the Rings.


What about his Harry Potter fanfic?
 
2013-09-10 09:13:06 PM

ng2810: Lyanna was headstrong, and it has even been implied that she fought in tourneys disguised as a knight. For a girl to wear all that armor and still fight means she comes from strong stock.


I always thought that the likely candidate for the mystery knight was Ned Stark.  I seem to remember something about the Starks not usually participating in tourneys because war isn't a game or something.  And while Lyanna was strong and all that, she was no Brienne of Tarth.
 
2013-09-10 09:16:34 PM

ng2810: Considering that Elia was described as "sickly" her entire adult life, and that the trauma of having two children nearly killed her, I'm going for the assumption that her genes were weak, and that allowed her husband's family traits to show in her children. Lyanna was headstrong, and it has even been implied that she fought in tourneys disguised as a knight. For a girl to wear all that armor and still fight means she comes from strong stock.

]


cdn.meme.li
 
2013-09-10 09:20:08 PM

Dingleberry Dickwad: ng2810: Considering that Elia was described as "sickly" her entire adult life, and that the trauma of having two children nearly killed her, I'm going for the assumption that her genes were weak, and that allowed her husband's family traits to show in her children. Lyanna was headstrong, and it has even been implied that she fought in tourneys disguised as a knight. For a girl to wear all that armor and still fight means she comes from strong stock.]

[cdn.meme.li image 272x254]


Thank you for saving me having to look up the image... though I was going to quote the last part of ng2810's post mentioning the bf, not the GRRM stuff. Who knows what genetics are like in GRRM's world... but we know how they work in this one.
 
2013-09-10 09:27:13 PM
I don't really give a shiat I just want the next book to come out.

YO GRR, FINISH THAT SHIAT ,

/AS IN: YESTERDAY
 
2013-09-10 09:35:44 PM
It was actually a lunch meeting, during which Benioff pointed to a turkey sandwich description on the menu and said "Okay, George, they described it in 3 sentences. Why do you need 14 pages?"
 
2013-09-10 09:45:32 PM

DamnYankees: desertmouse: I used to think that way, but more and more I think Lyanna was knocked up by Robert B. before she ran off with Rhaegar.  The very first HBO episode they make a point about Jon's "hair," and how he doesn't want to cut it.  I think they do that so later we'll facepalm and go, "Of course his hair is black."  There are too many similarities between Jon and Robert, too many stories about Robert's bastards, and it would be a perfect match when he ends up with Dany.  Together they will represent the three heads -- Targaryan, Baratheon and Stark.

If this was true, why would Robert ask Nedd, in a private conversation between the two of them, who Jon's mother was? There'd be no need to keep up any kind of ruse between the two of them.


Right before she bled to death, Lyanna made Ned promise not to tell anyone.  ANYONE, even his wife.  If he wasn't even going to tell Kat, he sure as heck wasn't going to tell anyone else.  Once Jon agreed to take the black, everything changed and Ned knew he could tell him the truth once he took his oath.  Thus we saw that scene where Ned says goodbye to Jon as he's riding off to the wall and Ned promises to have a good talk with him or something the next time they see each other.  Of course, they didn't exactly see each other again.

For what it's worth, I think Ned's spirit is in one of those obnoxious crows that's always saying "corn," etc.  The crow is trying to say crown.

I think the "three heads" refers to literally the three riders of the dragons, sure.  But it also has a separate, symbolic meaning for the pair who will eventually rule: Dany (Targaryan) and Jon (Baratheon & Stark).
 
2013-09-10 09:50:42 PM
The more I hear about this guy, the more he strikes me as a pompous self entitled ass.

Quizzing a place to 'get the right to' use your story and make you a gazillionaire despite you writting a book every decade..?
 
2013-09-10 10:01:21 PM

kroonermanblack: The more I hear about this guy, the more he strikes me as a pompous self entitled ass.

Quizzing a place to 'get the right to' use your story and make you a gazillionaire despite you writting a book every decade..?


So you're saying he should have just said "OK" right off the bat without caring if they planned on treating his artistic vision with care?
Seems to me that's what Stephen King does. Look at Running Man. While yes the movie was cool, it was 80s schlock and a faithful adaptation could have been much much better. Look at shiat like Dreamcather, Graveyard Shift, Needful Things, SleepWalkers, The Mangler, and others that I'm sure I'm forgetting. Sometimes, it's ok for a writer to care about their artistic vision enough to want to see it done right.
 
2013-09-10 10:15:56 PM
So, author watched "The Writers Room" and read the accompanying Entertainment Weekly articles over the last month or two, swiped the anecdotes told within, and published their own "story" about them.

/stay classy, Pajiba
 
2013-09-10 10:25:49 PM
I'm in the L + R = J camp but it doesn't matter as my favorite character in the tv version is Drogon.  That damn dragon has dropped the mic and walked off stage about 3 times and each arse-kicking is is better than the last.
 
2013-09-10 10:37:58 PM
Melisandre. It is known.
 
2013-09-10 10:39:52 PM
Just out of curiosity, because I haven't read the books...And this shouldn't mean anything of importance, but are any of Dany's three dragons particularly devious or malicious in any way?
 
2013-09-10 10:42:05 PM
My God, you folks are arguing about who Jon Snow's mother is as if GRRM actually has planned it out.

/Loves me the Fire & Ice books, but GRRM is not one to plan out anything in his books
 
2013-09-10 10:51:07 PM

GoodHomer: My God, you folks are arguing about who Jon Snow's mother is as if GRRM actually has planned it out.

/Loves me the Fire & Ice books, but GRRM is not one to plan out anything in his books


It is one of the things he said he knew back in 1997 or 98 so I"ll take his word for it. Then again he also said it was going to be a trilogy.. then five books before settling on seven.
 
2013-09-10 10:57:05 PM
StoPPeRmobile: //fark that leper guy

Thomas Covenant? Yeah, Stephen R. Donaldson can eat a family-sized bag of dicks. I can't beleive I read all six of those shiatty books.
 
2013-09-10 11:05:19 PM

Infernalist: Just out of curiosity, because I haven't read the books...And this shouldn't mean anything of importance, but are any of Dany's three dragons particularly devious or malicious in any way?


It's not clear that they're intelligent enough to have those words applied to them, but let's just say they don't exactly make the best pets.
 
2013-09-10 11:38:07 PM

Infernalist: Just out of curiosity, because I haven't read the books...And this shouldn't mean anything of importance, but are any of Dany's three dragons particularly devious or malicious in any way?


No, but they are three ridiculously dangerous animals that keep getting bigger, hungrier, and, due to some bumps along the road, wilder.
 
2013-09-11 12:13:19 AM
SPOILERS

Essentially, Lyanna was promised to Robert Baratheon at the time her and Rhaegar ran off together during the tournament at Harrenhall.  Ned's older brother and friends then went to the mad king to demand her return which ended in the friends deaths and Ned's brother's imprisonment.  When Ned's father went to demand his brother's release he was burned alive while the older brother was forced to watch and was killed while struggling to free his burning father.  This resulted in all out war which ended in the death of Rhaegar Targaryan at the forks, the execution of the mad king by Jaimie Lanister and the death of the Targaryan family and their Dornish wife and children with some exceptions at kings landing by Tywin Lannister and his bannermen (the mountain). During this time Ned then went to "rescue" his sister and was the only survivor of this endeavor along with his bannerman Howland Reed.  He came home with a baby Jon Snow. The final result was the assentation of the Baratheon bloodline to the throne and the world as it was at the start of the series.  There were a few other notable events afterwards such as the Greyjoy rebellion which also contributed to the world as we know it at the start.

Jon Snow is the child of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryan.  Jon Snow is the heir to house Targaryan and the throne of Westeros as he is Rhaegar's first born son and Daenery's nephew.
 
2013-09-11 12:35:28 AM
Its painfully obvious that Jon Snow's mother is Roz.
 
2013-09-11 01:42:27 AM
I think the right answer is....

Whomever you ( the writer. etc..) want it to be at the time you put it in print.

A number of possibilities is always interesting to the reader. the end of this thing is years away.
 
2013-09-11 02:24:13 AM
It is going to be fun watching that bastardo Joffrey choke to death on his purple drank....spoiler.
 
2013-09-11 03:13:41 AM
The correct answer was, "Jon Snow's real mother is all around us. She's the dawn breaking over a crisp autumn day. She's the twinkle in the eye of a happy child. As long as we treat one another with kindness, Jon Snow's mother will never truly be lost."

Or, if he was looking for a more specific answer, they probably could have bluffed their way through just by giving a lengthy description of a woman's breasts, being sure to use at least three different adjectives to describe the color and length of her nipples.
 
2013-09-11 04:30:54 AM
Lots of spoilers here so do not read this if you do not want to know. highlight the blank portion to read....


Lets see, so far there are 2 survivors where there should be none, at least one horn that needs to be taken away from the greyjoys to control the dragons, a horn that will burn your lungs if you are not fireproof. at the end of book 5 another stark dies. Tyrion will do some really nasty things... so will the spider..... the citadel knows more than they are telling... Jons mother committed suicide...Arya will get her revenge but no one will know she did it. so much more...
 
2013-09-11 07:41:34 AM
Aerys was also at the tournament. I believe Rhaegar was acting on his orders all along. Aerys was the father. Stark genes are dominant over all the others because they come from the first men. Three characters in the story had mothers who died in childbirth.

"I looked for you on the Trident," Ned said to them.
"We were not there," Ser Gerold answered.
"Woe to the Usurper if we had been," said Ser Oswell.
"When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were."
"Far away," Ser Gerold said, "or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells."
"I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege," Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them."
"Our knees do not bend easily," said Ser Arthur Dayne.
"Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him."
"Ser Willem is a good man and true," said Ser Oswell.
"But not of the Kingsguard," Ser Gerold pointed out. "The Kingsguard does not flee."
"Then or now," said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.
"We swore a vow," explained old Ser Gerold.
Ned's wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.
"And now it begins," said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.
"No," Ned said with sadness in his voice. "Now it ends
 
2013-09-11 08:05:33 AM

bin_smokin: SPOILERS

Essentially, Lyanna was promised to Robert Baratheon at the time her and Rhaegar ran off together during the tournament at Harrenhall.  Ned's older brother and friends then went to the mad king to demand her return which ended in the friends deaths and Ned's brother's imprisonment.  When Ned's father went to demand his brother's release he was burned alive while the older brother was forced to watch and was killed while struggling to free his burning father.  This resulted in all out war which ended in the death of Rhaegar Targaryan at the forks, the execution of the mad king by Jaimie Lanister and the death of the Targaryan family and their Dornish wife and children with some exceptions at kings landing by Tywin Lannister and his bannermen (the mountain). During this time Ned then went to "rescue" his sister and was the only survivor of this endeavor along with his bannerman Howland Reed.  He came home with a baby Jon Snow. The final result was the assentation of the Baratheon bloodline to the throne and the world as it was at the start of the series.  There were a few other notable events afterwards such as the Greyjoy rebellion which also contributed to the world as we know it at the start.

Jon Snow is the child of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryan.  Jon Snow is the heir to house Targaryan and the throne of Westeros as he is Rhaegar's first born son and Daenery's nephew.


Too bad Jon Snow would still be a bastard.  Maybe a Rivers instead of a Snow, but unless there was a secret wedding with Rhaegar/Lyanna he isn't legitimate
 
2013-09-11 08:33:50 AM

kronicfeld: DamnYankees: Lyanna Stark. What do I win? I haven't even read the books and that's obvious.

Ashara Dayne. At least that's the new meta-theory among the assembled internet nerdery.


It can't be Ashara because 1)The tourney was two years before her death and 2) that was the last time she'd seen Ned before he came to Starfall and 3) she killed herself directly after he came by. Jon Snow has the Stark face and the Stark "coloring" and, while Ashara is said to have "dark hair", his father would have to be someone other than Ned for the reasons above, and the Stark features are distinct enough that such is a practical impossibility. 4) Further more, the purple eyes of Ashara and Daenerys(whose mother was also Dornish) shows that the Targaryen purple-eyes, in the simplified genetics of ASoIaF, are a Dominant trait over the common Dornish eye-color gene, meaning that if Jon were Ashara's son, he'd likely have Purple eyes as she did.

TL;dr: Jon is a Stark, he can't be Ned's given all the conflicting nurse-maids attributed as his mother, the only other Stark in the South at the time was Lyanna, she died in a blood-soaked bed, Lyanna is described as having a willowy, "boyish" build like Arya's, one not well suited to child bearing: Lyanna is his mother and died soon after giving birth to him in a hard delivery, possibly done without the aid of mid-wife or maester(given that the only survivors of the Tower of Joy are Ned and Howland Reed).
 
2013-09-11 08:33:51 AM
Snooki?
 
2013-09-11 08:35:19 AM

DamnYankees: kronicfeld: DamnYankees: Lyanna Stark. What do I win? I haven't even read the books and that's obvious.

Ashara Dayne. At least that's the new meta-theory among the assembled internet nerdery.

I don't know who that is, since I haven't read the books, but the Lyanna Stark theory is too perfect. I can't see why anyone would oppose it.


The Books are called "A Song of Ice and Fire" for Pete's Sake. I mean seriously; who else can literally embody the Series name other than Jon?
 
2013-09-11 08:38:18 AM

kronicfeld: Slaxl: I don't keep up on theories, but I do remember whilst reading it thinking that Ned might not be the father, but she might, but I can't remember when I thought that, or why. It was too long ago.

The quick rundown:

The more we hear about him, Rhaegar wasn't the monster that his father was. He was a fairly reasonable and honorable dude, in that context at least. There's actually a supportable side theory that he was planning a coup to depose his insane father. He didn't actually "abduct" Lyanna; that is what Robert chooses to believe because he was in love with her. Rather, they ran away together. Lyanna was being protected at the Tower of Joy by three of the Kingsguard, including Rhaegar's best friend, who had no reason to be standing between Ned and a simple prisoner of war. Ned found Lyanna in a "bed of blood," strongly implying childbirth, especially because there's never been any implication that anyone willfully injured her. Lyanna make Ned "promise" something, likely to keep secret her son's lineage, as his life would be forfeit if Robert ever found out (see, e.g., Robert calling out a hit on Dany and Viserys). Ned sacrifices his honor and lies that he knocked up a maid to create a cover story for Jon's existence.


Yes. Exactly. This is also why Ned reacts so strongly to Robert's assassination plans. He isn't just morally disgusted(though he is that), but it is proof of all his fears about Robert; proof that if he had found out, Robert would have had Jon killed, which is a suspicion Ned had likely been trying to talk himself out of ever since he holed himself up in the North after the Rebellion.
 
2013-09-11 08:42:04 AM

nmrsnr: kronicfeld: The quick rundown:

While you're probably right, and I don't spend much time on textual analysis, this answer bothers me because Jon doesn't look like a Targaryen, he has dark hair and dark eyes, as far as I recall. Meanwhile, the other son of Rhaegar, Aegon, has both the silvery hair and the violet eyes of the Targaryens, even though his mother was Dornish, who have dark hair and dark eyes, so the recessive gene argument for hiding the traits in Jon doesn't really work.

So while that's probably the correct answer, I really don't want it to be.


Targaryen trumps Dornish, but not Stark. See: Daenerys, Viserys, and Ashara's eyes, and the fact that the current Starks "look" has preserved since the days of the First Men.
 
2013-09-11 08:47:39 AM

Carth: Richard Roma: The little bit after the stuff in the headline is what caught my attention:

At the end of the five hour meeting, Martin asked them, "Who is Jon Snow's real mother?" It was a test question They made an educated guess which turned out to be right, so they got the job.

That pretty much seals it: R+L=J.  The theory has been floating around for years, but I've never before heard Martin say there was a definitive answer, or that it can be made through an educated guess.  I can't think of anything else that could equal a correct educated guess to the question.  I guess it's official now.

Which is good, because I'd been afraid that Martin, being the troll he is, would end up making Jon really be the bastard of Ned and some random woman.  Just to piss everybody off.

Jon has to be of Targaryen blood to be The Price that Was Promised (for his is the story of Ice and Fire).


^^^ This
 
2013-09-11 08:57:10 AM

Capo Del Bandito: liam76: Skyrmion: PapaChester: Stupid.

Why isn't there a Three Kingdoms tv series. I might actually purchase a TV for that...

[link]

(Haven't seen it myself.)

There is alive action three kingdoms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms_%28TV_series%29

Ahh so they based it on Romance of the 3 Kingdoms instead of the histories.

I bet they play Cao Cao as an evil bastard, blah blah blah, playing up how vile and treacherous he was.

The man was introducing Machavellian philosophy in the Chinese court way too early for the people to get it. But it was a giant farking kingdom, and some control was needed.

Peasants don't appreciate that, but then they're peasants and they're only good for working the land. They know shiat about shiat when it comes to ruling that same land.


I hate when Cao Cao is portrayed that way. In reality, he was far more honest than either of the other two "kingdoms", particularly Liu Bei of Shu, who betrayed pretty much everyone he ever entered the service of, plus many of his underlings, and was generally a gigantic jerk. The only reason Cao Cao gets remembered this way is because the Dynasty that eventually managed to maintain its rule after Wei crushed Wei and Shu wanted to increase its legitimacy by claiming ties to the Han, and Liu Bei justified his ambition by claiming to be a restoration of that fallen house. The "official" histories are pure propaganda in that regard, and you don't even need to really read too far between the lines to see it.

And while Liu Bei was murdering anyone who questioned his "Royal" heritage, Cao Cao was promoting officers based on ability and skill rather than birth, appointed genuinely trustworthy and reliable bureaucrats to administer his provinces (because North China, while vast, was far too sparse and arid to support the kind of armies he needed to field without efficient and honest administration), doing precisely what the "Defender of the Imperial Court" should have been doing, and not trying to hide his ambitions between disingenuous slogans or absurd claims of legitimacy based on the ownership of a special stamp-press.

Anyway, pet-peeve of mine. Sorry for the rant.
 
2013-09-11 09:07:18 AM

Heron: Capo Del Bandito: liam76: Skyrmion: PapaChester: Stupid.

Why isn't there a Three Kingdoms tv series. I might actually purchase a TV for that...

[link]

(Haven't seen it myself.)

There is alive action three kingdoms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms_%28TV_series%29

Ahh so they based it on Romance of the 3 Kingdoms instead of the histories.

I bet they play Cao Cao as an evil bastard, blah blah blah, playing up how vile and treacherous he was.

The man was introducing Machavellian philosophy in the Chinese court way too early for the people to get it. But it was a giant farking kingdom, and some control was needed.

Peasants don't appreciate that, but then they're peasants and they're only good for working the land. They know shiat about shiat when it comes to ruling that same land.

I hate when Cao Cao is portrayed that way. In reality, he was far more honest than either of the other two "kingdoms", particularly Liu Bei of Shu, who betrayed pretty much everyone he ever entered the service of, plus many of his underlings, and was generally a gigantic jerk. The only reason Cao Cao gets remembered this way is because the Dynasty that eventually managed to maintain its rule after Wei crushed Wei Wu and Shu ...


Bah. FTFM
 
2013-09-11 09:46:45 AM

Texian: But Jon Snow still knows nothing?


He acts like an inbred dumbass... Yeah, he could be a Targaryen.
 
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