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(Pajiba)   When the showrunners of Game of Thrones came to GRR Martin to get permission to make the show, after a 5 hour meeting he asked them a test question to see if they "got" the books: "Who is Jon Snow's real mother?"   (pajiba.com) divider line 105
    More: Cool, Jon Snow, Game of Thrones, GRR Martin, sundance channel, Sergio Leone, Hutchison, Jim Rash, Jason Priestley  
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7355 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 10 Sep 2013 at 6:01 PM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-10 03:25:44 PM
Lyanna Stark. What do I win? I haven't even read the books and that's obvious.
 
2013-09-10 03:30:12 PM
Kaiser Soze.
 
2013-09-10 03:36:00 PM
 Robert Baratheon
 
2013-09-10 03:38:49 PM
btw i suspect he's not dead.merely a free floating spirit that will soon inhabit hodor . Who is actually the stark heir.
 
2013-09-10 03:50:16 PM

DamnYankees: Lyanna Stark. What do I win? I haven't even read the books and that's obvious.


Ashara Dayne. At least that's the new meta-theory among the assembled internet nerdery.
 
2013-09-10 03:55:30 PM

kronicfeld: DamnYankees: Lyanna Stark. What do I win? I haven't even read the books and that's obvious.

Ashara Dayne. At least that's the new meta-theory among the assembled internet nerdery.


I don't know who that is, since I haven't read the books, but the Lyanna Stark theory is too perfect. I can't see why anyone would oppose it.
 
2013-09-10 03:57:13 PM

DamnYankees: I don't know who that is, since I haven't read the books, but the Lyanna Stark theory is too perfect. I can't see why anyone would oppose it.


Five years between books gives people with very little else to do a lot of time to develop overly-elaborate theories.
 
2013-09-10 04:13:00 PM
Butterbumps. I expect a writing credit for the Season 4 finale.
 
2013-09-10 04:37:22 PM

DamnYankees: kronicfeld: DamnYankees: Lyanna Stark. What do I win? I haven't even read the books and that's obvious.

Ashara Dayne. At least that's the new meta-theory among the assembled internet nerdery.

I don't know who that is, since I haven't read the books, but the Lyanna Stark theory is too perfect. I can't see why anyone would oppose it.


I don't keep up on theories, but I do remember whilst reading it thinking that Ned might not be the father, but she might, but I can't remember when I thought that, or why. It was too long ago.

sithon: btw i suspect he's not dead.merely a free floating spirit that will soon inhabit hodor . Who is actually the stark heir.


Who do you suspect isn't dead?
 
2013-09-10 04:38:10 PM

Slaxl: DamnYankees: kronicfeld: DamnYankees: Lyanna Stark. What do I win? I haven't even read the books and that's obvious.

Ashara Dayne. At least that's the new meta-theory among the assembled internet nerdery.

I don't know who that is, since I haven't read the books, but the Lyanna Stark theory is too perfect. I can't see why anyone would oppose it.

I don't keep up on theories, but I do remember whilst reading it thinking that Ned might not be the father, but she*might, but I can't remember when I thought that, or why. It was too long ago.

sithon: btw i suspect he's not dead.merely a free floating spirit that will soon inhabit hodor . Who is actually the stark heir.

Who do you suspect isn't dead?


*Lyanna that is, in case that wasn't clear.
 
2013-09-10 04:49:30 PM

Slaxl: I don't keep up on theories, but I do remember whilst reading it thinking that Ned might not be the father, but she might, but I can't remember when I thought that, or why. It was too long ago.


The quick rundown:

The more we hear about him, Rhaegar wasn't the monster that his father was. He was a fairly reasonable and honorable dude, in that context at least. There's actually a supportable side theory that he was planning a coup to depose his insane father. He didn't actually "abduct" Lyanna; that is what Robert chooses to believe because he was in love with her. Rather, they ran away together. Lyanna was being protected at the Tower of Joy by three of the Kingsguard, including Rhaegar's best friend, who had no reason to be standing between Ned and a simple prisoner of war. Ned found Lyanna in a "bed of blood," strongly implying childbirth, especially because there's never been any implication that anyone willfully injured her. Lyanna make Ned "promise" something, likely to keep secret her son's lineage, as his life would be forfeit if Robert ever found out (see, e.g., Robert calling out a hit on Dany and Viserys). Ned sacrifices his honor and lies that he knocked up a maid to create a cover story for Jon's existence.
 
2013-09-10 04:52:20 PM

kronicfeld: Slaxl: I don't keep up on theories, but I do remember whilst reading it thinking that Ned might not be the father, but she might, but I can't remember when I thought that, or why. It was too long ago.

The quick rundown:

The more we hear about him, Rhaegar wasn't the monster that his father was. He was a fairly reasonable and honorable dude, in that context at least. There's actually a supportable side theory that he was planning a coup to depose his insane father. He didn't actually "abduct" Lyanna; that is what Robert chooses to believe because he was in love with her. Rather, they ran away together. Lyanna was being protected at the Tower of Joy by three of the Kingsguard, including Rhaegar's best friend, who had no reason to be standing between Ned and a simple prisoner of war. Ned found Lyanna in a "bed of blood," strongly implying childbirth, especially because there's never been any implication that anyone willfully injured her. Lyanna make Ned "promise" something, likely to keep secret her son's lineage, as his life would be forfeit if Robert ever found out (see, e.g., Robert calling out a hit on Dany and Viserys). Ned sacrifices his honor and lies that he knocked up a maid to create a cover story for Jon's existence.


He didn't just lie to save Jon's life, he also probably did to save Lyanna's honor and name. She gets to remain pure and beloved, rather than hated and scorned.
 
2013-09-10 04:54:56 PM

kronicfeld: Slaxl: I don't keep up on theories, but I do remember whilst reading it thinking that Ned might not be the father, but she might, but I can't remember when I thought that, or why. It was too long ago.

The quick rundown:

The more we hear about him, Rhaegar wasn't the monster that his father was. He was a fairly reasonable and honorable dude, in that context at least. There's actually a supportable side theory that he was planning a coup to depose his insane father. He didn't actually "abduct" Lyanna; that is what Robert chooses to believe because he was in love with her. Rather, they ran away together. Lyanna was being protected at the Tower of Joy by three of the Kingsguard, including Rhaegar's best friend, who had no reason to be standing between Ned and a simple prisoner of war. Ned found Lyanna in a "bed of blood," strongly implying childbirth, especially because there's never been any implication that anyone willfully injured her. Lyanna make Ned "promise" something, likely to keep secret her son's lineage, as his life would be forfeit if Robert ever found out (see, e.g., Robert calling out a hit on Dany and Viserys). Ned sacrifices his honor and lies that he knocked up a maid to create a cover story for Jon's existence.


img29.imageshack.us
 
2013-09-10 05:05:30 PM
O Lyanna,
And I ain't down here for your money,
I ain't down here for your love,
I ain't down here for your love of money,
I'm down here for your soul.

-Jon's song from The Winds of Winter
 
2013-09-10 05:42:23 PM

kronicfeld: The quick rundown:


While you're probably right, and I don't spend much time on textual analysis, this answer bothers me because Jon doesn't look like a Targaryen, he has dark hair and dark eyes, as far as I recall. Meanwhile, the other son of Rhaegar, Aegon, has both the silvery hair and the violet eyes of the Targaryens, even though his mother was Dornish, who have dark hair and dark eyes, so the recessive gene argument for hiding the traits in Jon doesn't really work.

So while that's probably the correct answer, I really don't want it to be.
 
2013-09-10 05:46:44 PM

nmrsnr: ll. Meanwhile, the other son of Rhaegar, Aegon, has both the silvery hair and the violet eyes of the Targaryens, even though his mother was Dornish, who have dark hair and dark eyes, so the recessive gene argument for hiding the traits in Jon doesn't really work.


Didn't Aegon die when he was a baby? Hard to say what his hair color would have turned out to be - many kids have light hair and then it gets darker as they get older. As for the rest of the Targaryens, didn't they all in-breed, thereby keeping the blond hair?
 
2013-09-10 05:55:25 PM

DamnYankees: Didn't Aegon die when he was a baby?


Spoilers: It doesn't look that way in book 5.
 
2013-09-10 06:03:30 PM
GRR Martin of the planet
images4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-09-10 06:05:26 PM
Hagrid?
 
2013-09-10 06:17:48 PM
Some worthless whore Eddard chose to bed, is my understanding.
 
2013-09-10 06:19:16 PM
Ned Stark.  Think about it!  WAKE UP SHEEPLE!
 
2013-09-10 06:20:30 PM

DamnYankees: nmrsnr: ll. Meanwhile, the other son of Rhaegar, Aegon, has both the silvery hair and the violet eyes of the Targaryens, even though his mother was Dornish, who have dark hair and dark eyes, so the recessive gene argument for hiding the traits in Jon doesn't really work.

Didn't Aegon die when he was a baby? Hard to say what his hair color would have turned out to be - many kids have light hair and then it gets darker as they get older. As for the rest of the Targaryens, didn't they all in-breed, thereby keeping the blond hair?


That.  Joffrey's genetic inheritance underlines how genetics work in Westeros.  Robert's seed was strong versus the Lannister line - likely, so is the Stark bloodline versus Targaryen.
 
2013-09-10 06:23:14 PM

KhamanV: DamnYankees: nmrsnr: ll. Meanwhile, the other son of Rhaegar, Aegon, has both the silvery hair and the violet eyes of the Targaryens, even though his mother was Dornish, who have dark hair and dark eyes, so the recessive gene argument for hiding the traits in Jon doesn't really work.

Didn't Aegon die when he was a baby? Hard to say what his hair color would have turned out to be - many kids have light hair and then it gets darker as they get older. As for the rest of the Targaryens, didn't they all in-breed, thereby keeping the blond hair?

That.  Joffrey's genetic inheritance underlines how genetics work in Westeros.  Robert's seed was strong versus the Lannister line - likely, so is the Stark bloodline versus Targaryen.


Not sure I am parsing this correctly, but are you asserting that Joffrey is Robert's son?
 
2013-09-10 06:26:33 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: KhamanV: DamnYankees: nmrsnr: ll. Meanwhile, the other son of Rhaegar, Aegon, has both the silvery hair and the violet eyes of the Targaryens, even though his mother was Dornish, who have dark hair and dark eyes, so the recessive gene argument for hiding the traits in Jon doesn't really work.

Didn't Aegon die when he was a baby? Hard to say what his hair color would have turned out to be - many kids have light hair and then it gets darker as they get older. As for the rest of the Targaryens, didn't they all in-breed, thereby keeping the blond hair?

That.  Joffrey's genetic inheritance underlines how genetics work in Westeros.  Robert's seed was strong versus the Lannister line - likely, so is the Stark bloodline versus Targaryen.

Not sure I am parsing this correctly, but are you asserting that Joffrey is Robert's son?


Maybe he worded it wrong. But Joffrey looking like a Lannister was used as a plot point to show that he wasn't Robert's son because no matter the woman, Roberts illegitimate bastards all have dark hair.
 
2013-09-10 06:28:48 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Not sure I am parsing this correctly, but are you asserting that Joffrey is Robert's son?


No, all Roberts bastards favored him.  Dark hair etc.  Which is why all his kids being fair haired and resembling their mother was a clue to Arryn that they weren't his.
 
2013-09-10 06:33:16 PM

Dingleberry Dickwad: The_Six_Fingered_Man: KhamanV: DamnYankees: nmrsnr: ll. Meanwhile, the other son of Rhaegar, Aegon, has both the silvery hair and the violet eyes of the Targaryens, even though his mother was Dornish, who have dark hair and dark eyes, so the recessive gene argument for hiding the traits in Jon doesn't really work.

Didn't Aegon die when he was a baby? Hard to say what his hair color would have turned out to be - many kids have light hair and then it gets darker as they get older. As for the rest of the Targaryens, didn't they all in-breed, thereby keeping the blond hair?

That.  Joffrey's genetic inheritance underlines how genetics work in Westeros.  Robert's seed was strong versus the Lannister line - likely, so is the Stark bloodline versus Targaryen.

Not sure I am parsing this correctly, but are you asserting that Joffrey is Robert's son?

Maybe he worded it wrong. But Joffrey looking like a Lannister was used as a plot point to show that he wasn't Robert's son because no matter the woman, Roberts illegitimate bastards all have dark hair.


Which is why I wondered why he wrote "Robert's seed was strong versus the Lannister line." There is nothing to indicate that Robert ever fathered a child with Cersei. I was under the impression that all of Cersei's children are Jamie's.

Nefarious: Which is why all his kids being fair haired and resembling their mother was a clue to Arryn that they weren't his.


Right.
 
2013-09-10 06:34:07 PM
Does it matter?
 
2013-09-10 06:34:41 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Robert's seed was strong versus the Lannister line


Jon Arryn's note only said "the seed is strong"
 
2013-09-10 06:42:11 PM
The little bit after the stuff in the headline is what caught my attention:

At the end of the five hour meeting, Martin asked them, "Who is Jon Snow's real mother?" It was a test question They made an educated guess which turned out to be right, so they got the job.

That pretty much seals it: R+L=J.  The theory has been floating around for years, but I've never before heard Martin say there was a definitive answer, or that it can be made through an educated guess.  I can't think of anything else that could equal a correct educated guess to the question.  I guess it's official now.

Which is good, because I'd been afraid that Martin, being the troll he is, would end up making Jon really be the bastard of Ned and some random woman.  Just to piss everybody off.
 
2013-09-10 06:43:51 PM
Stupid.

Why isn't there a Three Kingdoms tv series. I might actually purchase a TV for that...
 
2013-09-10 06:44:55 PM

sithon: btw i suspect he's not dead.merely a free floating spirit that will soon inhabit hodor . Who is actually the stark heir.




I started thinking about the trolling aspect and realized the only reason I'm watching this show is because of this.
images4.wikia.nocookie.net
A tv show! Mind blown.

/has read all the fantasy staples
//fark that leper guy
 
2013-09-10 06:48:28 PM
This part gets me confused.  I thought Robert was into Lyanna.  Something happened at the Harrenhal tournament with some kind of triangle between Lyanna, Robert and Rheagar.  That set off things.  I haven't read the books for a few years.  But is it that Snow is the son of Layanna and Robert?
 
2013-09-10 06:50:07 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Which is why I wondered why he wrote "Robert's seed was strong versus the Lannister line." There is nothing to indicate that Robert ever fathered a child with Cersei. I was under the impression that all of Cersei's children are Jamie's


Cersei explicitly tells Ned Stark that all three of her children are Jaimie's in the first book and that whenever Robert did manage to knock her up she promptly downed a mug of moon tea.
 
2013-09-10 06:51:23 PM

Polish Hussar: she promptly downed a mug of moon tea.


with a side of Sun Chips
 
2013-09-10 06:51:34 PM

PapaChester: Stupid.

Why isn't there a Three Kingdoms tv series. I might actually purchase a TV for that...


[link]

(Haven't seen it myself.)
 
2013-09-10 06:54:12 PM

Skyrmion: PapaChester: Stupid.

Why isn't there a Three Kingdoms tv series. I might actually purchase a TV for that...

[link]

(Haven't seen it myself.)


There is alive action three kingdoms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms_%28TV_series%29
 
2013-09-10 06:56:41 PM

liam76: Skyrmion: PapaChester: Stupid.

Why isn't there a Three Kingdoms tv series. I might actually purchase a TV for that...

[link]

(Haven't seen it myself.)

There is alive action three kingdoms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms_%28TV_series%29


Oh, interesting!

I loved those books.
 
2013-09-10 06:57:52 PM
His mother was Maggy.  No love potion or anything, just Ned having a massive granny fetish and her promise of nightly gummers.  You have to read between the lines a little but it is all there.
 
2013-09-10 07:07:13 PM

PapaChester: Stupid.

Why isn't there a Three Kingdoms tv series. I might actually purchase a TV for that...


There is one in (Mandarin) Chinese. It is a few hundred episodes and pretty good.
 
2013-09-10 07:07:24 PM
personally I think he must be Lyanna and Rhaegar's kid. There has to be a rider for each dragon, Daenerys, Aegon and Jon. I also think Melisandre will burn Jon but he'll survive just like Daenerys did
 
2013-09-10 07:08:53 PM

Richard Roma: The little bit after the stuff in the headline is what caught my attention:

At the end of the five hour meeting, Martin asked them, "Who is Jon Snow's real mother?" It was a test question They made an educated guess which turned out to be right, so they got the job.

That pretty much seals it: R+L=J.  The theory has been floating around for years, but I've never before heard Martin say there was a definitive answer, or that it can be made through an educated guess.  I can't think of anything else that could equal a correct educated guess to the question.  I guess it's official now.

Which is good, because I'd been afraid that Martin, being the troll he is, would end up making Jon really be the bastard of Ned and some random woman.  Just to piss everybody off.


Jon has to be of Targaryen blood to be The Price that Was Promised (for his is the story of Ice and Fire).
 
2013-09-10 07:12:06 PM
It's so obvious that Jon is a Targaryean that if it turns out that he's not it'll only be because Martin decided to change it last minute.

/Gave up on the books second one in.
//The show wasn't any better.
 
2013-09-10 07:13:44 PM
But Jon Snow still knows nothing?
 
2013-09-10 07:18:25 PM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Polish Hussar: she promptly downed a mug of moon tea.

with a side of Sun Chips


Followed by a dragoon of dream wine and double-stuff Oreos.
 
2013-09-10 07:24:44 PM
I would have guessed Rei Ayanami.
 
2013-09-10 07:28:17 PM
Well fine, I thought it was funny.
 
2013-09-10 07:30:57 PM

Texian: But Jon Snow still knows nothing?


Knew enough to turn Ygritte's crank.
 
2013-09-10 07:35:27 PM

DamnYankees: kronicfeld: Slaxl: I don't keep up on theories, but I do remember whilst reading it thinking that Ned might not be the father, but she might, but I can't remember when I thought that, or why. It was too long ago.

The quick rundown:

The more we hear about him, Rhaegar wasn't the monster that his father was. He was a fairly reasonable and honorable dude, in that context at least. There's actually a supportable side theory that he was planning a coup to depose his insane father. He didn't actually "abduct" Lyanna; that is what Robert chooses to believe because he was in love with her. Rather, they ran away together. Lyanna was being protected at the Tower of Joy by three of the Kingsguard, including Rhaegar's best friend, who had no reason to be standing between Ned and a simple prisoner of war. Ned found Lyanna in a "bed of blood," strongly implying childbirth, especially because there's never been any implication that anyone willfully injured her. Lyanna make Ned "promise" something, likely to keep secret her son's lineage, as his life would be forfeit if Robert ever found out (see, e.g., Robert calling out a hit on Dany and Viserys). Ned sacrifices his honor and lies that he knocked up a maid to create a cover story for Jon's existence.

He didn't just lie to save Jon's life, he also probably did to save Lyanna's honor and name. She gets to remain pure and beloved, rather than hated and scorned.


All of this is my theory. But I'm usually wrong.
 
2013-09-10 07:39:58 PM
HODOR!!!!
 
2013-09-10 07:46:40 PM

liam76: Skyrmion: PapaChester: Stupid.

Why isn't there a Three Kingdoms tv series. I might actually purchase a TV for that...

[link]

(Haven't seen it myself.)

There is alive action three kingdoms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms_%28TV_series%29


Ahh so they based it on Romance of the 3 Kingdoms instead of the histories.

I bet they play Cao Cao as an evil bastard, blah blah blah, playing up how vile and treacherous he was.

The man was introducing Machavellian philosophy in the Chinese court way too early for the people to get it. But it was a giant farking kingdom, and some control was needed.

Peasants don't appreciate that, but then they're peasants and they're only good for working the land. They know shiat about shiat when it comes to ruling that same land.
 
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