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(The Epoch Times)   The Holocaust was so fun, a video game version for those who did not go through it is a no brainer   (theepochtimes.com) divider line 55
    More: Fail, Holocaust, Nintendo, crowd sourcing, no-brainer, adaptations, smartphones, fun  
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2128 clicks; posted to Geek » on 10 Sep 2013 at 12:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-09-10 11:05:35 AM  
Grappling with the death of his mother, he makes a deal with a fox that claims to be able to bring her back to life.

Oh, that's less creepy. I was imagining a game where you got to be a guard. If you complete the first few wartime levels you can play the bonus round where you try to avoid Israeli Nazi hunters.
 
2013-09-10 11:59:58 AM  
Because games are only for children and have to be fun. They aren't allowed to be deep, profound or moving and addressing serious topics is totally out of the question.
 
2013-09-10 12:09:58 PM  
Geez. Wolfenstein wasn't good enough?
 
2013-09-10 12:11:07 PM  

Voiceofreason01: Because games are only for children and have to be fun. They aren't allowed to be deep, profound or moving and addressing serious topics is totally out of the question.


I would have assumed that by definition a game would be intended to be fun.

I think this is a great idea and I hope it succeeds. I think it could keep history alive and also bring a deeper sense of understanding and empathy that just reading about it and seeing pictures or film.

I also really think they should come up with a descriptor other than "game". In the same way that comic books that are "serious" can be called illustrated novels.
 
2013-09-10 12:13:32 PM  

Voiceofreason01: Because games are only for children and have to be fun. They aren't allowed to be deep, profound or moving and addressing serious topics is totally out of the question.


upload.wikimedia.org

Lighten up Francis
 
2013-09-10 12:14:08 PM  
God forbid that we expose our children to some contemplative issues about the Holocaust.

3.bp.blogspot.com
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-09-10 12:19:08 PM  
so Nintendo is a Holocaust game denier?
 
2013-09-10 12:22:57 PM  

Barfmaker: Voiceofreason01: Because games are only for children and have to be fun. They aren't allowed to be deep, profound or moving and addressing serious topics is totally out of the question.

I would have assumed that by definition a game would be intended to be fun.

I think this is a great idea and I hope it succeeds. I think it could keep history alive and also bring a deeper sense of understanding and empathy that just reading about it and seeing pictures or film.

I also really think they should come up with a descriptor other than "game". In the same way that comic books that are "serious" can be called illustrated novels.


Interactive video media
 
2013-09-10 12:25:46 PM  

Barfmaker: Voiceofreason01: Because games are only for children and have to be fun. They aren't allowed to be deep, profound or moving and addressing serious topics is totally out of the question.

I would have assumed that by definition a game would be intended to be fun.


"By definition"? You got that definition anywhere? Some of the best games I've played were not necessarily fun, but really made you think and bring you outside your comfort zone. A recent one would be Spec Ops: The Line. That game was absolutely brutal and it made you think. It wasn't fun to get through, but extremely memorable and I would recommend it to anyone. Movies like "Schindler's List" are not fun to watch. Books like Diary of Anne Frank are not necessarily fun to read. But they're very interesting and tell a moving story.

Why is there a difference between a game telling a serious story, and a movie or book which does the same thing?
 
2013-09-10 12:27:57 PM  
To be fair, survivors of the Donner party would probably have been outraged over this one:

i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-10 12:29:39 PM  

Mister Buttons: To be fair, survivors of the Donner party would probably have been outraged over this one:

[i.imgur.com image 468x308]


boourns.dynu.net
 
2013-09-10 12:30:04 PM  
Is there a part of the game where you get to turn the gas nozzle?

/dnrtfa
 
2013-09-10 12:32:01 PM  

mediablitz: Voiceofreason01: Because games are only for children and have to be fun. They aren't allowed to be deep, profound or moving and addressing serious topics is totally out of the question.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 159x279]

Lighten up Francis


Serious games tend to take a beating in the press and in some situations that can keep games from being made or released at all. Is it the end of the world? No. but what if books like The Red Badge of Courage were never published because they made some people uncomfortable?

/sometimes it's OK to care about things
 
2013-09-10 12:34:41 PM  
This will not end well
 
2013-09-10 12:40:20 PM  

diaphoresis: Is there a part of the game where you get to turn the gas nozzle?

/dnrtfa


I was picturing something like Railroad Tycoon.

I've always been amazed by the efficiency of the Holocaust- it adds to the inhumanity. It's one thing to kill someone out of hate, it's another to kill because they're the cog in the line.
 
2013-09-10 12:40:24 PM  

Barfmaker: I would have assumed that by definition a game would be intended to be fun


Nope, just like movies and books there are video games that are also meant to evoke different emotions in the player besides fun.
 
2013-09-10 12:42:55 PM  
I think it sounds like a fine game. I was expecting something akin to the JFK Simulator or the Columbine game. You know, something completely tasteless not to mention unplayable. The game described in the article actually sounds like a good game. I didn't like the poll question made by the website, though. "Should kids play a game about the Holocaust?" What a poorly worded question. Why not ask, should kids be allowed to play a game about the Holocaust? Or, Should kids be allowed to learn about the Holocaust through video games or other interactive media? Yes. But should a kid play a game about the holocaust just because it's a game and it's about the holocaust? That really depends on the game itself, doesn't it? While I think kids should know about WWII, probably best not to force them to play a game about the Rape of Nanking. Rephrase the question and try again.
 
2013-09-10 12:46:28 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: Barfmaker: I would have assumed that by definition a game would be intended to be fun

Nope, just like movies and books there are video games that are also meant to evoke different emotions in the player besides fun.


For example, I'm pretty sure Dead Island was intended to break your will to live. And it did. Good bye, cruel world!

/not the worst game I purchased that year, but pretty damn close
//Call of Juarez: The Cartel holds that dishonor
 
2013-09-10 12:54:37 PM  

mooseyfate: Lumbar Puncture: Barfmaker: I would have assumed that by definition a game would be intended to be fun

Nope, just like movies and books there are video games that are also meant to evoke different emotions in the player besides fun.

For example, I'm pretty sure Dead Island was intended to break your will to live. And it did. Good bye, cruel world!

/not the worst game I purchased that year, but pretty damn close
//Call of Juarez: The Cartel holds that dishonor


I'm still amazed they released The Cartel in the condition it was in, it was obvious that it wasn't finished.

The Call of Juarez: Gunslinger game on XBLA/PSN at least turned out well.
 
2013-09-10 12:59:16 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: mooseyfate: Lumbar Puncture: Barfmaker: I would have assumed that by definition a game would be intended to be fun

Nope, just like movies and books there are video games that are also meant to evoke different emotions in the player besides fun.

For example, I'm pretty sure Dead Island was intended to break your will to live. And it did. Good bye, cruel world!

/not the worst game I purchased that year, but pretty damn close
//Call of Juarez: The Cartel holds that dishonor

I'm still amazed they released The Cartel in the condition it was in, it was obvious that it wasn't finished.

The Call of Juarez: Gunslinger game on XBLA/PSN at least turned out well.


I didn't buy it because of my experience with the Cartel. I like a few Ubisoft franchises, but Call of Juarez is dead to me now. Splinter Cell is quickly heading that direction. Atleast Watch Dogs and the new Rainbow Six games look like they'll be tons of fun. As well as Black Flag.

/now all I need is for them to figure out how to make Prince of Persia good again
//Man the last two sucked ass...
 
2013-09-10 01:09:54 PM  

Barfmaker: I also really think they should come up with a descriptor other than "game". In the same way that comic books that are "serious" can be called illustrated novels.


Jack Thompson already has a trademark on "murder simulator".
 
2013-09-10 01:11:00 PM  

Voiceofreason01: mediablitz: Voiceofreason01: Because games are only for children and have to be fun. They aren't allowed to be deep, profound or moving and addressing serious topics is totally out of the question.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 159x279]

Lighten up Francis

Serious games tend to take a beating in the press and in some situations that can keep games from being made or released at all. Is it the end of the world? No. but what if books like The Red Badge of Courage were never published because they made some people uncomfortable?

/sometimes it's OK to care about things


Sigh. I made a joke about a character who farts.

You doubled down. Like I said; Lighten up Francis.
 
2013-09-10 01:13:20 PM  

Voiceofreason01: Because games are only for children and have to be fun. They aren't allowed to be deep, profound or moving and addressing serious topics is totally out of the question.


Yeah, that excuse will totally work on your wife when you're trying to explain the receipt for Shinobi Girl.
 
2013-09-10 01:15:09 PM  
mediablitz:
Sigh. I made a joke about a character who farts.

LOL YOU"RE FUNNY! Why actually talk about something when we can have fart jokes.
 
2013-09-10 01:16:24 PM  
listhamper.com
 
2013-09-10 01:25:03 PM  

Voiceofreason01: mediablitz:
Sigh. I made a joke about a character who farts.

LOL YOU"RE FUNNY! Why actually talk about something when we can have fart jokes.


welcometofark.jpg

I guess YOU get to decide what I want to talk about? fark off, nazi.
 
2013-09-10 01:32:59 PM  

Voiceofreason01: Because games are only for children and have to be fun. They aren't allowed to be deep, profound or moving and addressing serious topics is totally out of the question.


Was trying to figure a way to say this, but you did it better with fewer words.

I agree 100%.
 
2013-09-10 01:41:30 PM  

mooseyfate: Splinter Cell is quickly heading that direction.


Did you play Blacklist?  It got universal praise.  I only played the first level, but I thought it was terrifically enjoyable.
 
2013-09-10 01:42:42 PM  
bbsimg.ngfiles.com

/I have until Saturday to repent for this post
 
2013-09-10 02:03:09 PM  
Some people have no shame," wrote one video game blog reader.

And some people, like you, have no brains.

God forbid anybody should ever make a fictional account of a horrific period of human history using a child's imagination as the engine of the story. It would just be a disaster and couldn't possibly invoke pathos in the viewer that leads to meaningful introspection or provides a contemplative take on emotionally difficult and historically important material.

1.bp.blogspot.com

It's a risky thing to try, and it's easy to go badly wrong and just offend everybody with material this sensitive, but if you succeed in a project like this you can create something incredibly meaningful and even important.

But, no, it MIGHT fail and nothing hard is worth trying so just don't do it.
 
2013-09-10 02:04:14 PM  
I am ok with a game about the holocaust as long as it is not denying it happened or you play as a member of the SS troops or something like this.

I have bombed lots of cities I have been to in B17 flying fortress (Amiga 500). I have helped the resistance fight the nazis in Paris (Saboteur-PS3). Saboteur, with the German speaking troops going around shooting people and modern day gfx, was a bit much to be honest. It really did make you pause now and then.

Valkyria Chronicles, with the ethnic cleansing and the concentration camps, had cute animals and hot girls, being from Japan of course...

I have also played the cripple sex game -Katawa Shoujo- and found it amazingly deep.

So, I will wait with my outrage until I have played the game unlike the media or the trolltastic headline.
 
2013-09-10 02:08:24 PM  
I'd like to see a game set in the pre-Seizure of Power time. IMO, people need to understand how the Nazis came to power and why ordinary people supported them if they are to have any chance at all at recognizing and defeating similar threats in the present.
 
2013-09-10 02:21:35 PM  

RexTalionis: God forbid that we expose our children to some contemplative issues about the Holocaust.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 238x389]


What does a blind chick have to do with this?
 
2013-09-10 02:25:36 PM  

Barfmaker: I would have assumed that by definition a game would be intended to be fun.


The noun form of the word "game" has multiple definitions and the only theme common across all of them is that of competition with man, nature or self.

Games do not have to be entertaining any more than films, novels, art or music do. To the contrary, they can be challenging, disturbing and intentionally uncomfortable. A great example of a game that does that very well, to the point of being somewhat difficult to play at times, just became available on GoG.com, in fact.
 
2013-09-10 02:27:01 PM  
Argh, hit submit too soon. As for "why a game?", I think that a game might be a better teaching tool than a book, as it would allow a person to see the events as malleable rather than inevitable and also to see them from a first person, immersive, immediate perspective. A book can't do that. Existing models of open world single player games could work well - you've got your various factions, a few important cities, high political intrigue and gutter-level street fighting. The bad guy endgame would be Hitler being made both president and chancellor, and the good guy endgames would be having someone else win the election in 1932. The endgame could be problematic, as it wouldn't follow the pattern of "defeat the big bad at the end of the story" and would end with a climactic election rather than a climactic battle. Or maybe a climactic battle could be one of the possible endings. Seen in the right light, though, it has the elements a game needs.

It would be absolutely necessary to allow the player to align themselves with ANY of the factions, though. For one, without that, you've got shiat for replayability. Also, the game would lose much of its value as a tool for understanding if it didn't allow the player to see things from the point of view of a person who chose to support the Nazis rather than the other factions. A person of reasonably healthy ethics who had to make themselves think like a Nazi in order to climb the ranks and "win" would have an experience from the game that couldn't be gotten from a book, and might be able to better detect when they are being asked to do the same in actual life. A Communist takeover should be one of the endgames, and maybe even the restoration of the Kaiser. It can't be as simple as "Hitler or some kind of democracy we're not sure".

The more I think about it, the more I think I might play the living shiat out of that.
 
2013-09-10 02:42:59 PM  

GavinTheAlmighty: mooseyfate: Splinter Cell is quickly heading that direction.

Did you play Blacklist?  It got universal praise.  I only played the first level, but I thought it was terrifically enjoyable.


Oh, I'm sure it'll be good, but will it be Splinter Cell? I miss the Chaos Theory days when the game was about hiding in the shadows and bypassing entire levels without ever being spotted. When getting detected was an instant game over. It took patience and skill. Now days it's all Jason Bourne meets Taken. They should have just called Splinter Cell Conviction "Sam Fisher Smashes Everyone's Head into shiat: The Game". I know, I know, I'll get over it. I do still enjoy the games, I just miss that aspect. Luckily I still have Chaos Theory on two different consoles, so I'll be fine.
 
2013-09-10 02:45:44 PM  
I just heard an Anthony Jeselnik story about making jokes about the holocaust.  It was quite funny and mean.
 
2013-09-10 03:20:37 PM  

ZAZ: Grappling with the death of his mother, he makes a deal with a fox that claims to be able to bring her back to life.

Oh, that's less creepy. I was imagining a game where you got to be a guard. If you complete the first few wartime levels you can play the bonus round where you try to avoid Israeli Nazi hunters.


I think I could get all the achievements in that game. In fact, you could say that I would be an apt pupil of it.
 
2013-09-10 03:21:25 PM  

Barfmaker: Voiceofreason01: Because games are only for children and have to be fun. They aren't allowed to be deep, profound or moving and addressing serious topics is totally out of the question.

I would have assumed that by definition a game would be intended to be fun.

I think this is a great idea and I hope it succeeds. I think it could keep history alive and also bring a deeper sense of understanding and empathy that just reading about it and seeing pictures or film.

I also really think they should come up with a descriptor other than "game". In the same way that comic books that are "serious" can be called illustrated novels.


Interactive fiction?
 
2013-09-10 03:35:50 PM  

lucksi: I am ok with a game about the holocaust as long as it is not denying it happened or you play as a member of the SS troops or something like this.

I have bombed lots of cities I have been to in B17 flying fortress (Amiga 500). I have helped the resistance fight the nazis in Paris (Saboteur-PS3). Saboteur, with the German speaking troops going around shooting people and modern day gfx, was a bit much to be honest. It really did make you pause now and then.

Valkyria Chronicles, with the ethnic cleansing and the concentration camps, had cute animals and hot girls, being from Japan of course...

I have also played the cripple sex game -Katawa Shoujo- and found it amazingly deep.

So, I will wait with my outrage until I have played the game unlike the media or the trolltastic headline.


I'd like to be able to play as a Nazi too.
 
2013-09-10 03:58:35 PM  
Oh, look.  It's one of those threads where people who suck at video games and have no comprehension of the interactivity in video games (the thing that makes them great) complain that games aren't up to their intellectual rigors.
 
2013-09-10 04:50:05 PM  

ZAZ: Grappling with the death of his mother, he makes a deal with a fox that claims to be able to bring her back to life.

Oh, that's less creepy. I was imagining a game where you got to be a guard. If you complete the first few wartime levels you can play the bonus round where you try to avoid Israeli Nazi hunters.


I'm looking forward to the multiplayer versus mode based on the clearing of the Krakow ghetto.

/aisle seat.
 
2013-09-10 05:33:23 PM  
I remember an old simulation game on dos were you run a concentration camp. I don't think it ever got an english version though.
 
2013-09-10 06:05:39 PM  

ZAZ: Grappling with the death of his mother, he makes a deal with a fox that claims to be able to bring her back to life.

Oh, that's less creepy. I was imagining a game where you got to be a guard.


o_O

:(

/maybe I can cancel the order....
 
2013-09-10 07:44:42 PM  
The New York Times quoted video game blog comments in an article published 2008, when the game was being considered by Nintendo: "Disgusting concept. Some people have no shame," wrote one video game blog reader. Another called it "pretty creepy."

So, you're quoting a paper who quoted random bloggers and you think this qualifies as a source because technically you're citing the Times and not some random schmuck? Nope.

"Mr. Spielberg, you want to make a movie about what?! Such a disgusting concept; have you no shame?!"
 
2013-09-10 10:19:09 PM  

Voiceofreason01: Because games are only for children and have to be fun. They aren't allowed to be deep, profound or moving and addressing serious topics is totally out of the question.


Indeed.

I was at the Festival of Independent Games recently, and sat through a lecture where a senior game designer (who was a woman) was discussing how she used games to understand human nature. One of the most disturbing games came about after she was brutally raped. She described the time immediately after as the most horrific experience ever, but she knew she needed to overcome it in order to enjoy life again. How can one go back to making fun games after an experience like that?

Apart from tracking down her rapist and brutally murdering him in revenge, she created a game that allowed her to relive the trauma of the rape in a controlled environment. At the end of the struggle, she would defeat the rapist, emerge the winner and gain her lost life back.

Now, she cautioned that the game was not meant to replace the therapy she had to complete, but it helped her immensely by giving her the confidence to step out into the world again.

I've seen games used similarly to treat returning veterans who have severe PTSD. It's no cure, but anything that makes a huge struggle a little easier is good.
 
2013-09-10 10:42:43 PM  

mooseyfate: Oh, I'm sure it'll be good, but will it be Splinter Cell? I miss the Chaos Theory days when the game was about hiding in the shadows and bypassing entire levels without ever being spotted. When getting detected was an instant game over. It took patience and skill. Now days it's all Jason Bourne meets Taken. They should have just called Splinter Cell Conviction "Sam Fisher Smashes Everyone's Head into shiat: The Game". I know, I know, I'll get over it. I do still enjoy the games, I just miss that aspect. Luckily I still have Chaos Theory on two different consoles, so I'll be fine.


Mimicking Batman: AA's gameplay is a good thing.  I couldn't really get into SC before Conviction.
 
2013-09-10 11:03:44 PM  

ng2810: Voiceofreason01: Because games are only for children and have to be fun. They aren't allowed to be deep, profound or moving and addressing serious topics is totally out of the question.

Indeed.

I was at the Festival of Independent Games recently, and sat through a lecture where a senior game designer (who was a woman) was discussing how she used games to understand human nature. One of the most disturbing games came about after she was brutally raped. She described the time immediately after as the most horrific experience ever, but she knew she needed to overcome it in order to enjoy life again. How can one go back to making fun games after an experience like that?

Apart from tracking down her rapist and brutally murdering him in revenge, she created a game that allowed her to relive the trauma of the rape in a controlled environment. At the end of the struggle, she would defeat the rapist, emerge the winner and gain her lost life back.

Now, she cautioned that the game was not meant to replace the therapy she had to complete, but it helped her immensely by giving her the confidence to step out into the world again.

I've seen games used similarly to treat returning veterans who have severe PTSD. It's no cure, but anything that makes a huge struggle a little easier is good.


Feeding endless quarters against SNK final bosses never made me feel any less helpless while being raped.
 
2013-09-11 12:07:57 AM  

Mike_LowELL: Oh, look.  It's one of those threads where people who suck at video games and have no comprehension of the interactivity in video games (the thing that makes them great) complain that games aren't up to their intellectual rigors.


You didn't read the thread at all, did you?
 
2013-09-11 12:35:55 AM  

blue_2501: Mimicking Batman: AA's gameplay is a good thing.  I couldn't really get into SC before Conviction.


First game I had with my original Xbox was Splinter Cell.  Fell in love with it the first time I played it.  Fantastic stealth, great graphics, nifty gadgets, varied missions.  Really fun.  I spent my entire summer beating that game over and over.  They didn't start pulling away from that method of gameplay until Double Agent, which was a pretty big departure from their standard formula, but still really suspenseful due to having to satisfy Agency goals without getting caught by the organization you were infiltrating.  So the basis was still first and foremost stealth.  Conviction wasn't so much "stealth" as it was "get into position to engage in a quick and lethal firefight".  It was still fun and I really enjoyed the co-op storyline, it just lost a lot of that reliance on stealth by deciding to cater to the Chest High Walls Club (they meet on saturdays at your local rec center).  Much in the same way Rainbow Six stopped being about squad-based tactics and started being about epic gun-fights.  Blacklist looks to take it even further in that direction, though I will admit I haven't seen much on it's actual stealth gameplay.  If it'll still allow me to pick my way through a room or sneak past it all-together without having to engage in a full-throttle firefight, I'll still be happy.  I'd just hate to see the stealth evaporate from one of the best stealth franchises ever made.  All that being said, I still have the new Thief game, Watch Dogs, and most assuredly a Dishonored sequel to keep my stealth-game-lust satisfied.

/oh, and a little game called GTAV that is likely to replace my current life as my primary means of existence...
 
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