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(Opposing Views)   Keeping an eye out for cop cars while driving drunk was hard enough, now you're telling me I need to watch out for fire trucks too?   (opposingviews.com) divider line 15
    More: Interesting, Gordon Shatley, patrol cars, Verkerk, Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution, firefighters  
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3201 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Sep 2013 at 1:16 PM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



15 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-10 01:23:52 PM
A bird egg bleu firetruck? I can't fap to that.
 
2013-09-10 01:26:08 PM
Drunk driving is a very bad thing, but I doubt it would be a good precedent to set for motorists to be able to pull people over for something like speeding or swerving.
 
2013-09-10 01:26:33 PM

According to Verkerk, her incident was in direct violation of the Fourth Amendment, but Shatley says that he wasn't pulling her over to arrest her at all. He says he simply was trying to get her to stop driving and make sure she was okay.

Still, as soon as Shatley approached Verkerk at her car, she drove off, and eventually police caught up with her. She was later charged and convicted of driving while intoxicated, ordered to spend 30 days in jail plus 18 months probation, pay a $1,000 fine, and perform 72 hours of community service.


If she felt that strongly about it, she didn't have to stop for the firetruck at all.

She drove away before the fireman reached her car. He didn't actually search and/or seize anything.

Based on the fireman's observations, all he had to do was radio the description and license number to the police, and the results would have been the same. Who would the driver blame then? Answer: anyone but herself.
 
2013-09-10 01:26:51 PM
31.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-09-10 01:27:16 PM
I don't see any mention that he searched or seized anything from her.  At best she might be able to claim illegal detention or maybe some traffic violation by him.   Sounds like the police did all the arresting and searching.
 
2013-09-10 01:44:51 PM
How about you just not drive drunk?
 
2013-09-10 02:31:09 PM
So she's guilty, but looking for anything to get away with it.
 
2013-09-10 02:38:48 PM

Disgruntled Goat: How about you just not drive drunk?

 
2013-09-10 02:57:25 PM
There's a couple of municipal Public Safety Departments in CA that are both police and fire departments, and all the firefighters as sworn as cops as well. Rohnert Park, CA, the next city over, is one of them. The fire trucks have gun lockers in them, and RPDPS trucks have been known to pull cars over and issue citations if they something really egregious.

What I found interesting is that after a lot of personnel issues they've decided to hire people who want to be cops and cross-train them as firefighters. They tried cross-training firefighters as cops, but noted that there was a difference in the mentality of the people involved, and they didn't get the "right" kind of cops they wanted.

Employees of the RPDPS spend about 3 years in an assignment then "swing over." The training is fairly extensive. I understand that all the PD SGTs must *also* be qualified FD Captains, and the PD Captains must qualify as FD Battalion Chiefs.

However, there was an article in the local paper about six months ago that basically said the FD side of the RPDPS was severely lacking in morale and ability to execute the mission of fire fighting. Apparently, when they get any sort of "real" working fire (anything involving a structure as opposed to a vehicle fire or vegetation fire) according to the article the FD drives the rigs to the scene, stretches the lines and then waits for the mutual-aid fire companies to show up and perform the interior attack. It's caused quite the stir in public-safety circles around here.

CSB, I know, I know.
 
2013-09-10 03:25:35 PM
I miss seeing those Carolina blue fire trucks during my undergrad days.  That color sure beats the hell out of piss yellow and pea green fire trucks.
 
2013-09-10 04:10:13 PM

Englebert Slaptyback: Who would the driver blame then? Answer: anyone but herself.



So true. She doesn't even contest being drunk while driving.  At least the Streisand Effect will let everyone know that:

UNC Professor Dorothy Hoogland Verkerk is an unapologetic, drunk-driver who is a danger to herself and others.

http://art.unc.edu/art-history/faculty/dorothy-hoogland-verkerk/

d­ve­r­ke­rk[nospam-﹫-backwards]li­a­me­*u­nc­*edu
 
2013-09-10 04:18:50 PM
Would have been simpler and smarter to position the FT so she would ram it in her drunken stupor then sue the living snot out of her for endangering fireman's lives, damage to public property, etc. But nooo ... had to play the Good Guy ..
 
2013-09-10 05:38:04 PM

dramboxf: There's a couple of municipal Public Safety Departments in CA that are both police and fire departments, and all the firefighters as sworn as cops as well. Rohnert Park, CA, the next city over, is one of them. The fire trucks have gun lockers in them, and RPDPS trucks have been known to pull cars over and issue citations if they something really egregious.

What I found interesting is that after a lot of personnel issues they've decided to hire people who want to be cops and cross-train them as firefighters. They tried cross-training firefighters as cops, but noted that there was a difference in the mentality of the people involved, and they didn't get the "right" kind of cops they wanted.

Employees of the RPDPS spend about 3 years in an assignment then "swing over." The training is fairly extensive. I understand that all the PD SGTs must *also* be qualified FD Captains, and the PD Captains must qualify as FD Battalion Chiefs.

However, there was an article in the local paper about six months ago that basically said the FD side of the RPDPS was severely lacking in morale and ability to execute the mission of fire fighting. Apparently, when they get any sort of "real" working fire (anything involving a structure as opposed to a vehicle fire or vegetation fire) according to the article the FD drives the rigs to the scene, stretches the lines and then waits for the mutual-aid fire companies to show up and perform the interior attack. It's caused quite the stir in public-safety circles around here.

CSB, I know, I know.


I actually did find that to be a cool story.

/bro
 
2013-09-10 05:50:32 PM

Silentbob768768: I actually did find that to be a cool story.

/bro


This type of thread always reminds me of that thread from about four or five years ago when a Fire Marshal in Texas cited a woman for swearing inside a WalMart. Apparently, there are still public obscenity laws on the books in Texas, and he wrote her up. There was a massive thread about whether or not a ticket written by a "fireman" was legal in any sense of the word...until better educated Farkers reminded people that in most jurisdictions, in addition to enforcing the fire and building codes, Fire Marshals are also extensively trained arson investigators and thus, are also sworn law-enforcement officers.

In some jurisdictions they're peace officers, and in others, they're full-blown police officers, jurisdictionally-speaking. FDNY Fire Marshals, for example are considered full-power police officers, with full carry rights 24/7, full arrest powers for any witnessed felony, not just arson or other, fire-related crimes.

I also know of a police department in Westchester County, NY (Greenburgh PD) that runs the ambulance service...and the paramedics treating you are police officers. I'm not sure how it works if you OD and call 911 and they show up and you admit that you just smoked a ton of meth or whatever -- if they can treat you and THEN arrest you or whatever.
 
2013-09-10 06:55:59 PM
dramboxf:

I also know of a police department in Westchester County, NY (Greenburgh PD) that runs the ambulance service...and the paramedics treating you are police officers. I'm not sure how it works if you OD and call 911 and they show up and you admit that you just smoked a ton of meth or whatever -- if they can treat you and THEN arrest you or whatever.

Yeah that sounds like a violation of both HIPAA an the 5th amendment.
 
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