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(Politico)   So there was Hedy Lamar, in an alpaca wool sweater...with a zipper down the back. I hear a *zip* and she shows me her great, big-LIVE from the WHITE HOUSE. IT'S TUESDAY NIGHT   (politico.com) divider line 116
    More: Interesting, President Obama, White House, East Room, Towson University, President Clinton, talking points  
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3665 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Sep 2013 at 10:28 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



116 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-10 08:51:33 AM  
I really hope he isn't announcing his intention to bomb Syria....
 
2013-09-10 08:55:43 AM  
That's *HEDLY*.
 
2013-09-10 09:03:48 AM  

dittybopper: That's *HEDLY*.


It's the 1800s. You'll be able to sue HER!
 
2013-09-10 09:04:18 AM  
I would really like it if we could avoid booming another country.
 
2013-09-10 09:08:04 AM  
fark...I just realized the quote was "argyle sweater...with a zipper down the back"

*sigh* mods, if you read this, please fix it for all us MASH fans
 
2013-09-10 09:10:09 AM  

Weaver95: I would really like it if we could avoid booming another country.


I'd prefer this thing to be worked out diplomatically, but if we do need to punitive strike their ass over chemical weapons, then I'll be happy with not putting boots on the ground or toppling Assad

/where was all this dissent in the run up to Libya?
 
2013-09-10 09:11:26 AM  

somedude210: Weaver95: I would really like it if we could avoid booming another country.

I'd prefer this thing to be worked out diplomatically, but if we do need to punitive strike their ass over chemical weapons, then I'll be happy with not putting boots on the ground or toppling Assad

/where was all this dissent in the run up to Libya?


I just don't see how bombing Syria is gonna help the situation any.
 
2013-09-10 09:18:25 AM  

Weaver95: somedude210: Weaver95: I would really like it if we could avoid booming another country.

I'd prefer this thing to be worked out diplomatically, but if we do need to punitive strike their ass over chemical weapons, then I'll be happy with not putting boots on the ground or toppling Assad

/where was all this dissent in the run up to Libya?

I just don't see how bombing Syria is gonna help the situation any.


Did you believe the same thing about Libya? Why or why not? Do you believe the bombing helped in removing Ghaddafi?
 
2013-09-10 09:22:35 AM  

Weaver95: I just don't see how bombing Syria is gonna help the situation any.


if it stops just one chemical weapons strike, and therefore countless civilians who have no part in this war but are there because they don't want to give up their homes, then it's done more good than a thousand US troops on the ground could ever do.
 
2013-09-10 09:23:15 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Weaver95: somedude210: Weaver95: I would really like it if we could avoid booming another country.

I'd prefer this thing to be worked out diplomatically, but if we do need to punitive strike their ass over chemical weapons, then I'll be happy with not putting boots on the ground or toppling Assad

/where was all this dissent in the run up to Libya?

I just don't see how bombing Syria is gonna help the situation any.

Did you believe the same thing about Libya? Why or why not? Do you believe the bombing helped in removing Ghaddafi?


No, I don't believe bombing libya helped much at all. Oh it sure looked good in the papers but was it effective? Not so much. Same with Syria...it might look good on the news, but it won't actually have any effect. Not to mention that if I were a country in the middle east I'd start to believe that the US really has it in for anyone living in that area of the world. How many bombs can we drop before everyone there starts to believe that the US is a common threat to all of them?
 
2013-09-10 09:24:14 AM  

somedude210: Weaver95: I just don't see how bombing Syria is gonna help the situation any.

if it stops just one chemical weapons strike, and therefore countless civilians who have no part in this war but are there because they don't want to give up their homes, then it's done more good than a thousand US troops on the ground could ever do.


But it won't do any of that.
 
2013-09-10 09:26:25 AM  

Weaver95: No, I don't believe bombing libya helped much at all. Oh it sure looked good in the papers but was it effective? Not so much. Same with Syria...it might look good on the news, but it won't actually have any effect. Not to mention that if I were a country in the middle east I'd start to believe that the US really has it in for anyone living in that area of the world. How many bombs can we drop before everyone there starts to believe that the US is a common threat to all of them?


I think we've reached that threshold already.

No way Obama can bomb Syria now.  Not with the Russians offering to "help".  All Obama's choices at this point are bad ones.
 
2013-09-10 09:26:43 AM  
Yeah, we bombed Libya and helped remove Qaddafi.

And now, Libya is a stable Democracy!
 
2013-09-10 09:26:58 AM  

Weaver95: somedude210: Weaver95: I just don't see how bombing Syria is gonna help the situation any.

if it stops just one chemical weapons strike, and therefore countless civilians who have no part in this war but are there because they don't want to give up their homes, then it's done more good than a thousand US troops on the ground could ever do.

But it won't do any of that.


In fact, it might make the situation worse, retaliatory strikes, a targeting malfunction on a bomb, or anything else could result in MORE civilian casualties.
 
2013-09-10 09:28:51 AM  

Weaver95: Not to mention that if I were a country in the middle east I'd start to believe that the US really has it in for anyone living in that area of the world.


I'm pretty sure most people in the Middle East and Africa and Central Asia feel that way already about the US and Russia. China's tends to exercise it economic power instead so it doesn't piss people off as directly.
 
2013-09-10 09:31:40 AM  

Somacandra: Weaver95: Not to mention that if I were a country in the middle east I'd start to believe that the US really has it in for anyone living in that area of the world.

I'm pretty sure most people in the Middle East and Africa and Central Asia feel that way already about the US and Russia. China's tends to exercise it economic power instead so it doesn't piss people off as directly.


That;s because the Chinese are playing Civ while we're playing go fish.
 
2013-09-10 09:32:39 AM  

doyner: That;s because the Chinese are playing Civ while we're playing go fish.


I'd say it's more like Whack-a-Mole.
 
2013-09-10 09:32:41 AM  

Weaver95: No, I don't believe bombing libya helped much at all. Oh it sure looked good in the papers but was it effective? Not so much. Same with Syria...it might look good on the news, but it won't actually have any effect. Not to mention that if I were a country in the middle east I'd start to believe that the US really has it in for anyone living in that area of the world. How many bombs can we drop before everyone there starts to believe that the US is a common threat to all of them?


I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this. We may not have stated that we wanted Gadhaffi gone but our military action with NATO (which we did very little, France and GB handled most of it) allowed the rebels to build enough of foothold to fight back and actually topple the government. We may not have pulled the trigger on the gun that shot him, but we certainly put the gun in the hands of the one that did.

Weaver95: But it won't do any of that.


you don't know that, just like I don't know that it will. regardless, if we don't do anything, then we can pretty much throw out all international law, since we've just given the world a greenlight to ignore it and not get punished.

that said, even a threat of military strikes have allowed Syria a way out and allowing them to turn over all chemical weapons. As I write this, the BBC is reporting that they've accepted those terms. Sometimes you need to threatened to beat the crap out of someone to make them feel beat
 
2013-09-10 09:39:52 AM  
i44.tinypic.com
 
2013-09-10 09:52:33 AM  
Weaver95:  How many bombs can we drop before everyone there starts to believe that the US is a common threat to all of them?

Remember the Axis of Evil?

Syria - has WMD - gets away with it
North Korea - was WMD - gets away with it
Iraq - no WMD - gets facefarked

We've done a great job of demonstrating to the world just how important it is to get hold of some proper kick ass WMD.

(That's not an argument in favor of bombing Syria it's an argument against badly thought out neocon foreign policy as executed by excitable teenage boys with fun new catchphrases)
 
2013-09-10 09:56:22 AM  
I still haven't heard a good reason for us to start yet another bombing run on a middle eastern country.
 
2013-09-10 10:01:11 AM  
Nice to know so many of you are totally OK with a ruthless dictator committing genocide, and employing chemical weapons to accomplish it.
 
2013-09-10 10:02:50 AM  

somedude210: Weaver95: No, I don't believe bombing libya helped much at all. Oh it sure looked good in the papers but was it effective? Not so much. Same with Syria...it might look good on the news, but it won't actually have any effect. Not to mention that if I were a country in the middle east I'd start to believe that the US really has it in for anyone living in that area of the world. How many bombs can we drop before everyone there starts to believe that the US is a common threat to all of them?

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this. We may not have stated that we wanted Gadhaffi gone but our military action with NATO (which we did very little, France and GB handled most of it) allowed the rebels to build enough of foothold to fight back and actually topple the government. We may not have pulled the trigger on the gun that shot him, but we certainly put the gun in the hands of the one that did.

Weaver95: But it won't do any of that.

you don't know that, just like I don't know that it will. regardless, if we don't do anything, then we can pretty much throw out all international law, since we've just given the world a greenlight to ignore it and not get punished.



The idea that the United States has any respect at all for international law would be laughable if it weren't so tragic. Oh, you mean other countries. Well sure they have to toe the line.
 
2013-09-10 10:06:04 AM  

Weaver95: I still haven't heard a good reason for us to start yet another bombing run on a middle eastern country.


Because some rich people can get richer off it, and that's all the reasoning the government needs.
 
2013-09-10 10:06:08 AM  

Diogenes: Nice to know so many of you are totally OK with a ruthless dictator committing genocide, and employing chemical weapons to accomplish it.


That was almost verbatim one of the arguments for the Iraq invasion. You can be against a Syrian intervention for any number of reasons, not least of which is we might be able to remove the chemical weapons without military intervention.
 
2013-09-10 10:11:07 AM  
This pretty much sums it up for me, pretty much every conflict since the dawn of time:

Like the latest fashion
Like a spreading disease
The kids are strappin' on their way to the classroom
Getting weapons with the greatest of ease
The gangs stake their own campus locale
And if they catch you slippin' then it's all over pal
If one guys colors and the others don't mix
They're gonna bash it up, bash it up, bash it up, bash it up...

Hey - man you talkin' back to me?
Take him out
You gotta keep 'em separated
Hey - man you disrespecting me?
Take him out
You gotta keep 'em separated

Hey they don't pay no mind
If you're under 18 you won't be doing any time
Hey come out and play

By the time you hear the siren
It's already too late
One goes to the morgue and the other to jail
One guy's wasted and the other's a waste

It goes down the same as the thousand before
No one's getting smarter
No one's learning the score
Your never ending spree of death and violence and hate
Is gonna tie your own rope, tie your own rope, tie your own...
 
2013-09-10 10:11:16 AM  
If you want to know what the US will do in any foreign affairs situation just guage the sentiment of these entities:

Bankng industry
Petrolium Industry
Defense Industry
Israel
Public opinion

If 3 or more are generally for something it's going to happen.
 
2013-09-10 10:11:53 AM  

Tigger: Diogenes: Nice to know so many of you are totally OK with a ruthless dictator committing genocide, and employing chemical weapons to accomplish it.

That was almost verbatim one of the arguments for the Iraq invasion. You can be against a Syrian intervention for any number of reasons, not least of which is we might be able to remove the chemical weapons without military intervention.


That's the nice part about trolling.  You really don't have to come up with your own material ;-)

That's the same black/white fallacy I heard the last Syria thread I was in.
 
2013-09-10 10:13:47 AM  

Diogenes: Tigger: Diogenes: Nice to know so many of you are totally OK with a ruthless dictator committing genocide, and employing chemical weapons to accomplish it.

That was almost verbatim one of the arguments for the Iraq invasion. You can be against a Syrian intervention for any number of reasons, not least of which is we might be able to remove the chemical weapons without military intervention.

That's the nice part about trolling.  You really don't have to come up with your own material ;-)

That's the same black/white fallacy I heard the last Syria thread I was in.


It's too early for me clearly. shuffle away
 
2013-09-10 10:19:32 AM  

Diogenes: Nice to know so many of you are totally OK with a ruthless dictator committing genocide, and employing chemical weapons to accomplish it.


I don't think that is a fair assessment. When an awful person with awful power does awful things in some area of the world, it certainly does legitimate any country's intervention to stop it (like the Vietnamese communists did with the Khmer Rouge fascists). However, that does not mandate that any other particular country change its agenda do so, especially since the US has just gotten through two long, awful and expensive wars and a great recession. The question to intervene applies equally to every other country like France and Turkey (who are in a better position economically and politically and historically) to intervene. No country has endless capital, endless resources, and endless endurance to engage all evil everywhere and its a poor criticism to condemn it for not doing so. You'll need to find some superogatory reason specific to the USA and right now no one has provided one.
 
2013-09-10 10:31:44 AM  
The people know very little, as a whole, about the situation. He's trying to correct that. I applaud that.

I can't imagine anyone who would honestly give any President a hard time for "I think Congress should approve something, and I will explain to the people why so we can all have a good understanding."
 
2013-09-10 10:32:32 AM  
for the love of god, FINISH THE STORY submitter.
 
2013-09-10 10:37:13 AM  
I think it would be cool if it was Obama's coronation, then some mysterious stranger appears, turns into a gun, and blasts Obama to cinders.  Then Joe Biden will ask, "What'd he say his name was?"  Then the stranger will respond, "Bush."  Finally, all the Decepticons press corp will shout, "Hail Bush!"
 
2013-09-10 10:38:41 AM  

Weaver95: I just don't see how bombing Syria is gonna help the situation any.


I don't see why that should be the goal. I know that's what the resolution says, but this is an example of a guy who hates us in an unstable region full of people who hate us where we could actually strike to eliminate some measure of their capability to hurt us.

No matter who ultimately wins this civil war it's in our best interests to make sure they have as little access to those chems as possible because neither side is going to be our buddy once the dust settles. If they can actually drastically reduce the stockpiles and delivery capabilities without getting off the boats, I'm all for it.

The guy actually has the weapons. This is established fact. I don't see why we wouldn't take the opportunity to eliminate some of them in a low-risk operation.
 
2013-09-10 10:39:07 AM  

bad_blood: for the love of god, FINISH THE STORY submitter.


So there was Hedy Lamar in a white argyle sweater....with a zipper down the back. And you in your silk smoking jacket....with a zipper down the back. She throws her arms around her and kisses you. You throw her of you, disgusted.

...she got argyle lint all over your smoking jacket. She gets her things and walks out

filmdope.com
 
2013-09-10 10:39:23 AM  

Weaver95: I still haven't heard a good reason for us to start yet another bombing run on a middle eastern country.


I'm still waiting for a good reason for a booming run...
 
2013-09-10 10:40:16 AM  

somedude210: regardless, if we don't do anything, then we can pretty much throw out all international law, since we've just given the world a greenlight to ignore it and not get punished.


You made some good points, but this isn't one of them. What we do or don't do in response to Syria is specific to the context of Syria. It doesn't give anybody else in different circumstances a greenlight to do anything, let alone "throw out all international law", and all of them understand that. I can say this with absolute certainty because there have been many occasions in the past when international law has been violated without intervention, and none of those resulted in the complete breakdown of international law.

So unless you are arguing that there is something uniquely terrible and dangerous and most importantly universally applicable about the situation in Syria, then it's a logical fallacy to argue that we should react here based on some "message" it sends. We should deal with Syria based on Syria, and Syria alone. Politics is the art of the possible.

By the way, I suspect that everybody understands this except for the American media, and those who get their positions on international relations from it.
 
2013-09-10 10:42:44 AM  

Tigger: Diogenes: Nice to know so many of you are totally OK with a ruthless dictator committing genocide, and employing chemical weapons to accomplish it.

That was almost verbatim one of the arguments for the Iraq invasion. You can be against a Syrian intervention for any number of reasons, not least of which is we might be able to remove the chemical weapons without military intervention.


Wasn't the followup "argument" in favor of Iraq "It doesn't matter whether there were WMD's or not. We got rid of Saddam"?
 
2013-09-10 10:43:18 AM  

Diogenes: Nice to know so many of you are totally OK with a ruthless dictator committing genocide, and employing chemical weapons to accomplish it.


Well, that was a thoughtful contribution to a complex and delicate situation.

Personally I think we should nuke Baghdad, and anybody who disagrees with me is totally OK with a ruthless dictator committing genocide and employing chemical weapons to accomplish it.

Are you with me or against humanity?
 
2013-09-10 10:44:08 AM  

czetie: You made some good points, but this isn't one of them. What we do or don't do in response to Syria is specific to the context of Syria. It doesn't give anybody else in different circumstances a greenlight to do anything, let alone "throw out all international law", and all of them understand that. I can say this with absolute certainty because there have been many occasions in the past when international law has been violated without intervention, and none of those resulted in the complete breakdown of international law.


the difference being that we never publicly declared it's a violation of law when we ignored it before. Hell, we took months to decide that Rwanda was actually a genocide.
 
2013-09-10 10:44:28 AM  

skozlaw: No matter who ultimately wins this civil war it's in our best interests to


Help the hundreds of thousands of refugees, so when they return to their country to help run it, they think we are pretty good folks?
 
2013-09-10 10:49:51 AM  

dittybopper: That's *HEDLY*.


If this hadn't appeared in the first five posts, I would have been sad.
 
2013-09-10 10:50:39 AM  
9/8/13 5:04 PM EDT  Updated: 9/9/13 9:51 AM EDT

Timely. Is he still going to make an address now that a strike looks to be unnecessary?
 
2013-09-10 10:51:04 AM  
The only winning move is not to play
 
2013-09-10 10:54:26 AM  

mediablitz: Weaver95: I still haven't heard a good reason for us to start yet another bombing run on a middle eastern country.

I'm still waiting for a good reason for a booming run...


We want great sound to go along with those bombing videos.

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-09-10 10:56:03 AM  
4.bp.blogspot.com

Actual photo
 
2013-09-10 10:57:02 AM  

czetie: Diogenes: Nice to know so many of you are totally OK with a ruthless dictator committing genocide, and employing chemical weapons to accomplish it.

Well, that was a thoughtful contribution to a complex and delicate situation.

Personally I think we should nuke Baghdad, and anybody who disagrees with me is totally OK with a ruthless dictator committing genocide and employing chemical weapons to accomplish it.

Are you with me or against humanity?


Like fish in a barrel.
 
2013-09-10 10:58:13 AM  

Weaver95: I would really like it if we could avoid booming another country.


Is that some kind of euphemism?
 
2013-09-10 11:03:01 AM  

doyner: If you want to know what the US will do in any foreign affairs situation just guage the sentiment of these entities:

Bankng industry
Petrolium Industry
Defense Industry
Israel
Public opinion

If 3 or more are generally for something it's going to happen.


You can add Saudi Arabia, who usually occupy its own special, private list in cases like this.
It'll be hard for Obiwan to say no to Prince Bandar, unless another solution presents itself.
For the time being, it looks like Kerry and Obiwan have been playing Dumb Cop-Bad Cop and shaken up Assad enough to move him to action.
 
2013-09-10 11:06:39 AM  
If they accidentally slaughter some innocents, is the State Department going to release a CD showing all the dead and dying women and children suffering from the aftermath?
 
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