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(Slate)   Dishonesty in MY administration? Its more likely than you think   (slate.com) divider line 89
    More: Followup, internal audit, Barton Gellman  
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1717 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Sep 2013 at 9:22 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-10 09:24:10 AM  
So standard practice that didn't end up changing anything, and therefore I AM OUTRAGED!
 
2013-09-10 09:25:50 AM  
R for Revisionism.
 
2013-09-10 09:29:05 AM  
You mean the White House might not want classified details about how the NSA does its job to get out to other nations? It's almost like publishing documents that in no way enhances the rights of Americas is called treason.
 
2013-09-10 09:31:54 AM  

Outrageous Muff: It's almost like publishing documents that in no way enhances the rights of Americas is called treason.


giving aid and comfort to the enemy is called treason, being against the Iraq war or against spying on Americans is not, this calling people traitors stuff seems to go on every decade or so...
 
2013-09-10 09:32:51 AM  

Outrageous Muff: You mean the White House might not want classified details about how the NSA does its job to get out to other nations? It's almost like publishing documents that in no way enhances the rights of Americas is called treason.


It does, however, seem silly that the administration is still dead-set on locking all of those flapping barn doors three months after they were flung wide. We have internal documents that run counter to some of the claims they've made/are making - why on Earth would you think you can write/spin around "THE NSA IS SNOOPING THROUGH YOUR DIGITAL LIFE"?

I should think they'd be more in "recovery" mode (fixing the obvious civil liberty problems with these programs) than in "damage control" (trying to spin the leaked info or pretend we haven't just read about the NSA logging all our e-mails), but I guess that's why I'm not in politics?
 
2013-09-10 09:33:01 AM  
nsarchive.files.wordpress.com
What the most transparent Administration in history might look like
 
2013-09-10 09:37:48 AM  

Dr Dreidel: It does, however, seem silly that the administration is still dead-set on locking all of those flapping barn doors three months after they were flung wide. We have internal documents that run counter to some of the claims they've made/are making - why on Earth would you think you can write/spin around "THE NSA IS SNOOPING THROUGH YOUR DIGITAL LIFE"?

I should think they'd be more in "recovery" mode (fixing the obvious civil liberty problems with these programs) than in "damage control" (trying to spin the leaked info or pretend we haven't just read about the NSA logging all our e-mails), but I guess that's why I'm not in politics?


Nations lie when they say they don't spy, but they all spy. If you can't grasp that basic concept of life, perhaps you need to check again if your shoes are actually tied.
 
2013-09-10 09:47:04 AM  
Replace the name Obama with the name Bush and Fark would be in a frothy uproar. It's cool when our guy does it though. Nothing to see here, move along people. We'll be back to our regularly scheduled outrage as soon as there is a Republican in the White House again.
 
2013-09-10 09:48:19 AM  

Headso: giving aid and comfort to the enemy is called treason, being against the Iraq war or against spying on Americans is not, this calling people traitors stuff seems to go on every decade or so...


So if Obama bombs Syrian government targets and al Qaeda is fighting on the side of the rebels, Obama will be guilty of treason.

Cool. Good to know.
 
2013-09-10 09:49:19 AM  

mod3072: Replace the name Obama with the name Bush and Fark would be in a frothy uproar. It's cool when our guy does it though. Nothing to see here, move along people. We'll be back to our regularly scheduled outrage as soon as there is a Republican in the White House again.


www.toplessrobot.com
 
2013-09-10 09:50:19 AM  

Outrageous Muff: Nations lie when they say they don't spy, but they all spy.


Thanks, Captain Obvious.

What I mean is why devote so much time and energy to obvious spin and misinformation when the actual news pieces themselves explain why the administration's story is BS? In this case, they likely didn't know the Post was going to run a "here's why it's BS" accompanying piece, but WaPo (and the NY/LAT, the Chicago Tribune, the SF Chronicle, etc) have been detailing all of the various ways the NSA has, legally and less-than-legally, spied on Americans. What's the point of the administration denying it all when we have all the proof we'd need in court (as if it could get there)?

I get that administrations lie to people all the time, and about pretty much everything (this was part of my field of collegiate study). Why not simply try the Bushian deflect into "these programs keep America safe" without getting into specifics? Claiming that "the NSA respects civil liberties" when each new reveal pretty clearly lays out a new way they don't is a great way to lose support - and in case you hadn't noticed, pretty much every stripe of young Democrat (a demographic Democrats sorely need to keep, lest the GOP become the RANDPAUL Party of PrivacyTM) is really pissed over the spying.
 
2013-09-10 09:53:32 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Headso: giving aid and comfort to the enemy is called treason, being against the Iraq war or against spying on Americans is not, this calling people traitors stuff seems to go on every decade or so...

So if Obama bombs Syrian government targets and al Qaeda is fighting on the side of the rebels, Obama will be guilty of treason.

Cool. Good to know.


Bombing Syria would be idiotic and pointless. That said, you know it's a derper talking who gets all his info from a right wing blog when he starts talking about Al Qaeda, get a grip, there's fundie muslims in the world they provide a large portion of the oil you put in your f-350 with a bed cover that you do no work with. Sometimes they align with our interests and sometimes they don't.
 
2013-09-10 09:55:45 AM  
If you're so concerned about your privacy on the Internet, do something about it. Use strong crypto such as PGP, and relax. If you're sending all your letters on postcards rather than in envelopes (which is comparable to sending digital transmissions without strong crypto), you shouldn't complain when the mailman reads what you've written.
 
2013-09-10 09:56:44 AM  

imontheinternet: [nsarchive.files.wordpress.com image 376x489]
What the most transparent Administration in history might look like


Were the previous administrations like this?

www.bitlogic.com
 
2013-09-10 09:57:59 AM  

mod3072: Replace the name Obama with the name Bush and Fark would be in a frothy uproar. It's cool when our guy does it though. Nothing to see here, move along people. We'll be back to our regularly scheduled outrage as soon as there is a Republican in the White House again.


Probably would have. And they, too, would have been all upset about the wrong things.
 
2013-09-10 10:01:24 AM  
This all seems like standard operating procedure. I fail to see why my concern should rise above the baseline that has been established by all the other times this sort of thing has been done in prior decades.

/ oh... right... because I'm supposed to CARE A WHOLE LOT about this whole domestic spying thing that we've known about for a decade even though nobody gave a shiat about it until it had a name
// makes perfect sense
/// I repeat: wake me up when somebody proposes some farking bills to change it that I can support, otherwise STFU and stop whining about shiat you didn't care about ten years ago when you could have actually stopped it
 
2013-09-10 10:02:51 AM  

Headso: Bombing Syria would be idiotic and pointless. That said, you know it's a derper talking who gets all his info from a right wing blog when he starts talking about Al Qaeda, get a grip, there's fundie muslims in the world they provide a large portion of the oil you put in your f-350 with a bed cover that you do no work with. Sometimes they align with our interests and sometimes they don't.


Actually, it's mostly Chechen islamic extremists in the rebel forces against Syria.
They want to establish an Islamic state after they finish off Assad.

But you wouldn't know that, would you?
Study it out.
http://bit.ly/15gG6EU
 
2013-09-10 10:04:26 AM  

Headso: That said, you know it's a derper talking who gets all his info from a right wing blog when he starts talking about Al Qaeda, get a grip, there's fundie muslims in the world they provide a large portion of the oil you put in your f-350 with a bed cover that you do no work with.


No, I don't own a fossil-fuel-powered vehicle.
But I bet you do.
 
2013-09-10 10:05:16 AM  

BMulligan: Use strong crypto such as PGP, and relax.


there was just a story on NPR the other day about the NSA being able to get into encrypted data. The only way American's data could be safe from spying is if there's enough Americans actually against it to get some real accountability and obviously that isn't the case. Based on these threads there's plenty of people who think it's a great idea or at least tolerate it because of their partisanship, not to mention all the people who don't care about any civil rights or politics.
 
2013-09-10 10:05:44 AM  

Headso: giving aid and comfort to the enemy is called treason, being against the Iraq war or against spying on Americans is not, this calling people traitors stuff seems to go on every decade or so...


Depending on what you leak, it can certainly be treason. I'm not calling for the death of Snowden and frankly I think the moment he fled they should have simply said "hey, if what he did was right, he should stick around.  Oh well, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out" and minimized it like that, then transitioned into encouraging the american public to write their congressmen asking for a revision of NSA and calling for a strengthening amendment to the 4th.

Protesting a war is never treason, and certainly doesn't count as giving aid and comfort to the enemy. While I concur that there are reactionary morons on both sides, you playing bsrb and conflating two different things is worse.  They do it because they are blinded and stupid, and you do it because you are a dishonest jackass.  Worse, you only do it so you can be a special little fark snowflake contrarian and complain about all us sheeples.
 
2013-09-10 10:06:12 AM  

skozlaw: This all seems like standard operating procedure. I fail to see why my concern should rise above the baseline that has been established by all the other times this sort of thing has been done in prior decades.

/ oh... right... because I'm supposed to CARE A WHOLE LOT about this whole domestic spying thing that we've known about for a decade even though nobody gave a shiat about it until it had a name
// makes perfect sense
/// I repeat: wake me up when somebody proposes some farking bills to change it that I can support, otherwise STFU and stop whining about shiat you didn't care about ten years ago when you could have actually stopped it


If you knew so much about this so much earlier than the rest of us, you maybe could have shared it with the class.

The details, actually, are still coming out thanks to Snowden. Your inability to react with anything other than ho-hum is your own. Not having had your remarkable insight, I'm going to go ahead and ignore your demand and react with a measured outrage.
 
2013-09-10 10:10:10 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Headso: Bombing Syria would be idiotic and pointless. That said, you know it's a derper talking who gets all his info from a right wing blog when he starts talking about Al Qaeda, get a grip, there's fundie muslims in the world they provide a large portion of the oil you put in your f-350 with a bed cover that you do no work with. Sometimes they align with our interests and sometimes they don't.

Actually, it's mostly Chechen islamic extremists in the rebel forces against Syria.
They want to establish an Islamic state after they finish off Assad.

But you wouldn't know that, would you?
Study it out.
http://bit.ly/15gG6EU


And social conservatives want to establish a christian nation here with similar laws. You're the one who brought up Al Qaeda because that is what you learned from right wing media, amirite?
 
2013-09-10 10:11:17 AM  

Headso: there was just a story on NPR the other day about the NSA being able to get into encrypted data


Did you listen to it? It specifically said encryption is far too difficult for them to brute force hack, so they instead get private companies to give them backdoor entry.

I highly doubt every single encryption option in the country is compromised in that way.

But here is another alternative: Don't send your secrets via a business that offers no 4th amendment protection. When you put your information in the hands of a private citizen or business you accept the possibility that they will run off and grant the government access. There is an argument to be made that the courts should be ruling these companies as agents of the government because for all intents and purposes they are told by the government to cough up the info and the government has enough pressure on them to say they aren't freely making the decision.  But until such time as the courts rule that way, anyone worried about the secrecy of their emails and using hotmail is a fool.
 
2013-09-10 10:13:45 AM  

lilbjorn: mod3072: Replace the name Obama with the name Bush and Fark would be in a frothy uproar. It's cool when our guy does it though. Nothing to see here, move along people. We'll be back to our regularly scheduled outrage as soon as there is a Republican in the White House again.


He's right, you know.

Or are you one of those Democrat fanbois?
 
2013-09-10 10:14:32 AM  

Cletus C.: If you knew so much about this so much earlier than the rest of us


Your inability to pay even a modicum of attention to the world around you is not my fault. Although apparently you idiots still manage to become my problem through the miracle of democracy.

This goddamn program has been publicly debated multiple times during several congressional re-authorization hearings.

Hardly surprising that you didn't care, though. What... what was so much different about the government back then that you were totally cool with it... hmmm... nope... can't... can't quite put my finger on what changed in 2008....

As for the Obama supporters whining about this, I'm also tired of you dolts acting surprised that the guy who voted for telco immunity while he was still a Senator is big-number-one-fan of domestic spying programs.
 
2013-09-10 10:14:38 AM  

Headso: And social conservatives want to establish a christian nation here with similar laws.


All social conservatives are Christians?

Damn, I do learn something every day here on Fark.
 
2013-09-10 10:15:13 AM  
Latest Leak Shows NSA Engaging In Economic Espionage -- Not Fighting Terrorism

The NSA presentation contains documents prepared by the GCHQ -- the British Spy agency, from a country that appears as an ally of the United States in spying. The British agency shows how two spy programs operate. "Flying Pig" and "Hush Puppy" also monitor private networks which carry supposedly secure information. These networks are known as TLS/SSL.

The presentation explains how data is intercepted, through an attack known as "Man in the Middle". In this case, data is rerouted to the NSA central, and then relayed to its destination, without either end noticing.


If you didn't know you wouldn't care, can't we all just pretend it's not happening?
 
2013-09-10 10:16:09 AM  

vygramul: imontheinternet: [nsarchive.files.wordpress.com image 376x489]
What the most transparent Administration in history might look like

Were the previous administrations like this?


The picture was from a GIS for redacted government document.

The most transparent Administration in history comment was a reference to Obama's campaign promise to reverse the practices of the previous Administration.
 
2013-09-10 10:16:56 AM  

Smackledorfer: When you put your information in the hands of a private citizen or business you accept the possibility that they will run off and grant the government access.


Like I said in that same post, based on these threads there is no hope for privacy with your data. Your apathy towards it is just another type of person who I didn't mention, you know about it but instead of being against it you're apathetic and resigned to it, like spying on Americans is a force of nature that can't be stopped.
 
2013-09-10 10:18:17 AM  

Smackledorfer: hey, if what he did was right, he should stick around.


Ask Chelsea Manning how well sticking around worked out for her.
 
2013-09-10 10:20:09 AM  

imontheinternet: Obama's campaign promise to reverse the practices of the previous Administration.


He did.

He went from spying on our enemies to spying on us.
 
2013-09-10 10:22:35 AM  

imontheinternet: Smackledorfer: hey, if what he did was right, he should stick around.

Ask Chelsea Manning how well sticking around worked out for her.


Exactly. If she really loved America she would have stolen classified documents and then defected to Russia.
 
2013-09-10 10:22:54 AM  

Headso: BMulligan: Use strong crypto such as PGP, and relax.

there was just a story on NPR the other day about the NSA being able to get into encrypted data. The only way American's data could be safe from spying is if there's enough Americans actually against it to get some real accountability and obviously that isn't the case. Based on these threads there's plenty of people who think it's a great idea or at least tolerate it because of their partisanship, not to mention all the people who don't care about any civil rights or politics.


It is unlikely in the extreme that the NSA can defeat the RSA algorithm, and if they can that fact would be a national security secret so valuable that the government would never reveal it in any but the most extraordinary circumstances. For all practical purposes, it's safe.
 
2013-09-10 10:22:58 AM  

The Muthaship: He went from spying on our enemies to spying on us.


So on August 5, 2007, when George W. Bush signed the "Protect America Act" into law, providing the legal basis for all of this because of the smackdown he got in 2005 over his abuse of the FISA regulations, it was because of Obama?

Holy motherfarking balls, Obama has mind control powers!

That, or you're a complete moron.
 
2013-09-10 10:25:11 AM  

skozlaw: because I'm supposed to CARE A WHOLE LOT about


...the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines?
...the NASA shuttle falling in the sea?
 
2013-09-10 10:25:36 AM  

The Muthaship: Headso: And social conservatives want to establish a christian nation here with similar laws.

All social conservatives are Christians?

Damn, I do learn something every day here on Fark.


I said all social conservatives are Christian? What percentage of American social conservatives are muslim and jewish? considering their combined population is less than 3% including secular jews and muslims I'd say it's pretty low.
 
2013-09-10 10:26:43 AM  

skozlaw: Cletus C.: If you knew so much about this so much earlier than the rest of us

Your inability to pay even a modicum of attention to the world around you is not my fault. Although apparently you idiots still manage to become my problem through the miracle of democracy.

This goddamn program has been publicly debated multiple times during several congressional re-authorization hearings.

Hardly surprising that you didn't care, though. What... what was so much different about the government back then that you were totally cool with it... hmmm... nope... can't... can't quite put my finger on what changed in 2008....

As for the Obama supporters whining about this, I'm also tired of you dolts acting surprised that the guy who voted for telco immunity while he was still a Senator is big-number-one-fan of domestic spying programs.


The level of detail is new. The intrusive nature of the NSA may have been assumed by fine folks like you, as well as the repeated violations of legal protocol but such activity was not being debated in Congress during renewals of the Patriot Act because it had not been revealed.

But you have made it clear yours is a knee-jerk political reaction. The tried and true Bush card. Sure, this story is about the administration's attempts to limit information revealed on those violations but that is more easily understandable than your "my husband has been beating me for years, so why should I care now?" defense.
 
2013-09-10 10:27:32 AM  

BMulligan: It is unlikely in the extreme that the NSA can defeat the RSA algorithm...


They don't have to defeat anything, they just have to poison specific implementations with the help of software and hardware providers. The vast majority of people don't use FOSS and even among those who do, how many gladly compile proprietary code into the kernel just to get things like video cards working? And there is an established history of secret cooperation (well, until it gets exposed and stops being secret, anyway) between the NSA and various tech companies. The NSA even contributes considerable amounts of code directly to trusted vendors.

I'm not saying there's any reason to believe that this has actually happened, of course, but to say they'd have to defeat the actual algorithms to gain access to large amounts of encrypted data is not true.
 
2013-09-10 10:28:38 AM  

Headso: BMulligan: Use strong crypto such as PGP, and relax.

there was just a story on NPR the other day about the NSA being able to get into some encrypted data.


FTFY.  It's definitely not a situation where they can just *wavehands* decipher any crypto in the world.
 
2013-09-10 10:28:48 AM  

Outrageous Muff: You mean the White House might not want classified details about how the NSA does its job to get out to other nations? It's almost like publishing documents that in no way enhances the rights of Americas is called treason.


why are they keeping secret from the US people!  what, are we the enemy!  We need to know every single thing the government does at all time!  I demand to know!
 
2013-09-10 10:30:25 AM  

BMulligan: Headso: BMulligan: Use strong crypto such as PGP, and relax.

there was just a story on NPR the other day about the NSA being able to get into encrypted data. The only way American's data could be safe from spying is if there's enough Americans actually against it to get some real accountability and obviously that isn't the case. Based on these threads there's plenty of people who think it's a great idea or at least tolerate it because of their partisanship, not to mention all the people who don't care about any civil rights or politics.

It is unlikely in the extreme that the NSA can defeat the RSA algorithm, and if they can that fact would be a national security secret so valuable that the government would never reveal it in any but the most extraordinary circumstances. For all practical purposes, it's safe.


Here's a story referencing them keeping all encrypted data until they can gain access to it, so you're actually probably inviting more invasion of your privacy by trying to use your rights to privacy in your "papers".

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130620/15390323549/nsa-has-convi nc ed-fisa-court-that-if-your-data-is-encrypted-you-might-be-terrorist-so -itll-hang-onto-your-data.shtml
 
2013-09-10 10:31:22 AM  

Cletus C.: The level of detail is new.


Yea?

That's why my level of giving a crap is strictly limited to actual bills actually proposed and actually moving in the actual legislative bodies to actually rein in and limit this sort of thing.

Aside from that?

I motherfarking told you so. And so did a lot of others. Starting with the PATRIOT Act. You know. That thing a hell of a lot of really dumb and cowardly people blindly accepted while calling anybody who dared question it a traitor and terror sympathizer?

So, yea, basically fark you guys. Go lie in your beds you so carefully made up for yourselves until you're ready to do something other than just whine about the obvious and foreseeable consequences you actively helped to create.

Cletus C.: yours is a knee-jerk political reaction


But you especially can go fark yourself.
 
2013-09-10 10:35:02 AM  

Headso: Here's a story referencing them keeping all encrypted data until they can gain access to it, so you're actually probably inviting more invasion of your privacy by trying to use your rights to privacy in your "papers".


I'm going to start using perlmagick to procedurally generate penis graphics files, encrypt the shiat out of them and start hosting them all around the web.
 
2013-09-10 10:35:37 AM  

imontheinternet: vygramul: imontheinternet: [nsarchive.files.wordpress.com image 376x489]
What the most transparent Administration in history might look like

Were the previous administrations like this?

The picture was from a GIS for redacted government document.

The most transparent Administration in history comment was a reference to Obama's campaign promise to reverse the practices of the previous Administration.


"The most transparent administration in history" is not the same as "The most transparent administration as physically possible".

Now if you want to make an argument about whether, taking in account all the administrations actions in all departments, Obama is less transparent than Bush, you can do that. But saying, "LOOK! They're hiding something! THEY LIED!" is counterproductive.
 
2013-09-10 10:37:47 AM  

imontheinternet: Smackledorfer: hey, if what he did was right, he should stick around.

Ask Chelsea Manning how well sticking around worked out for her.


Oh, I never said Snowden SHOULD stick around.  I wouldn't if I were him - why take the risk?  But that is the line I'd use as the administration. Also there is a distinct difference between what Snowden did (leaked things about which he had personal knowledge and a specific argument for why a whistleblower was needed) and what Manning did (afaik leaking buttloads of stuff about which he had no knowledge).  I have vastly more faith that Snowden could get through our court for what he did than Manning would.

Headso: Your apathy towards it is just another type of person who I didn't mention, you know about it but instead of being against it you're apathetic and resigned to it


Depends on how you define apathy.
Am I lying awake at night and raging at the interwebs about it? Nope
Am I wasting boatloads of my personal time doing anything about it? Nope.
Because I AM against it.  But what I am not is stupid enough to believe the 4th amendment as written and interpreted actually prevents the spying that the NSA does. Furthermore, I suspect the majority of the country isn't simply  apathetic about it, but actually likes these systems at the time they are set up.  Finally, as mentioned in the thread, given the fickleness of the public (look how many people care now but didn't care when their wasn't a bla- in office), I don't think we will get rid of them.  I will happily speak out against it, as I have in numerous threads.

What I will not do is devote my personal resources or significant amount of time to fighting what I view as a lost cause.  It is legal now, and it is a fat farking chance that we'll get a more liberal legislature on this issue.  Not purely because of Apathy, as you say, but because that simply isn't what the bulk of americans want.

I am curious.  Aside from internet posting to complain, Headso, what steps do you take irl to combat this? You've had ten years to complain about it, so what exactly have you done? Whatever that amount of action is, why does that make me an apathetic object of your derision, and you some bastion of freedom?

I suspect you devote the same amount of personal resources that I do, but think that being extra upset on internet posts makes you superior in some way.  To me that looks less like you care about the issue, and more like a cry for attention.  /shrug.
 
2013-09-10 10:41:57 AM  

skozlaw: Holy motherfarking balls, Obama has mind control powers!


Obama has vastly expanded (overstepped actually) and re-purposed the Patriot Act/NSA.  But, it doesn't worry you, so it's no problem.

Headso: I said all social conservatives are Christian? What percentage of American social conservatives are muslim and jewish? considering their combined population is less than 3% including secular jews and muslims I'd say it's pretty low.


So now they're all religious?
 
2013-09-10 10:46:15 AM  

The Muthaship: Headso: I said all social conservatives are Christian? What percentage of American social conservatives are muslim and jewish? considering their combined population is less than 3% including secular jews and muslims I'd say it's pretty low.

So now they're all religious?


yep, they are all religious, I said that right after I said all social conservatives are christian.
 
2013-09-10 10:46:24 AM  

skozlaw: Cletus C.: The level of detail is new.

Yea?

That's why my level of giving a crap is strictly limited to actual bills actually proposed and actually moving in the actual legislative bodies to actually rein in and limit this sort of thing.

Aside from that?

I motherfarking told you so. And so did a lot of others. Starting with the PATRIOT Act. You know. That thing a hell of a lot of really dumb and cowardly people blindly accepted while calling anybody who dared question it a traitor and terror sympathizer?

So, yea, basically fark you guys. Go lie in your beds you so carefully made up for yourselves until you're ready to do something other than just whine about the obvious and foreseeable consequences you actively helped to create.

Cletus C.: yours is a knee-jerk political reaction

But you especially can go fark yourself.


You seem a bit on edge. I'm guessing it has to do with something other than the massive spying effort the U.S. has undertaken against its citizens. Did you change coffees?
 
2013-09-10 10:52:52 AM  

Headso: And social conservatives want to establish a christian nation here with similar laws. You're the one who brought up Al Qaeda because that is what you learned from right wing media, amirite?


Yes, because the al qaeda factor is relevant to any discussion of Syria.
Why do you think Putin supports Assad so heavily, besides Assad steadfastly refusing to support an Arab gas pipeline to Europe? It's because Assad has been killing islamic militants -- Chechens -- by the truckload. This is not hard to puzzle out unless you're completely ignorant of the regional truths.

I don't give a fark about the idiot Obama and I actually voted for him. Twice. So there's that.
I thought we'd hit rock bottom with Bush, but no.
 
2013-09-10 10:52:56 AM  

Smackledorfer: I am curious.  Aside from internet posting to complain, Headso, what steps do you take irl to combat this?


I donate to the ACLU, so I guess I do devote more of my personal resources and am superior to you in some way...
 
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