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(Click Orlando)   You knew it was only a matter of time before Zimmerman was arrested in another gun incident. Drink   (clickorlando.com) divider line 1050
    More: News, George Zimmerman, Mark O'Mara, Bracknell  
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19375 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Sep 2013 at 4:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-09 11:51:47 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: They literally observed the entire trial first hand.


And? So did the prosecution and they didn't agree with the verdict. That's not a coherent argument for why they're especially inclined to be "right." Juries are hallmarked, in cases like this, for having the following qualities : an almost distressing lack of prior awareness of their environment as per their ability to be notably ignorant of the case, being randomly selected civilians, usually of the kind that can't quickly find an excuse not to serve jury duty. They do not represent paragons of justice.
 
2013-09-09 11:52:57 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: What horseshiat strawman is this?


It's not a strawman at all: I misrepresented no one's position. That doesn't make it automatically right, but if you're going to throw names of fallacies around, at least make sure you're actually calling them the appropriate names.

There are tons of things that could have happened in this time period, NONE of which point to Zimmerman dutifully heading back to his truck.

Actually, plenty of them point to Zimmerman heading back to his truck. Not all of them, it is true, but not "NONE" either.

Far more likely: he exchanged words with TM or decided to stay and see where he was. Why?

That is possible, for at least some of the time. It is equally possible that after this, he went back to the truck.

If TM was there and instigating like you assume he was, why did Z not report this?

See, your colleague fredklein has the right of things here: it's possible, and even likely, that Martin was hiding at this point. Z took a moment to throw a quick gaze around -clearly he wasn't looking very hard- then decided he'd had enough and went away. Which is where things should have ended.
 
2013-09-09 11:54:15 PM  

VendorXeno: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: They literally observed the entire trial first hand.

And? So did the prosecution and they didn't agree with the verdict. That's not a coherent argument for why they're especially inclined to be "right." Juries are hallmarked, in cases like this, for having the following qualities : an almost distressing lack of prior awareness of their environment as per their ability to be notably ignorant of the case, being randomly selected civilians, usually of the kind that can't quickly find an excuse not to serve jury duty. They do not represent paragons of justice.


The prosecution has an agenda; the jury is impartial.
 
2013-09-09 11:54:23 PM  

ahab: Pretty sure the burden of proof lies with the prosecution, not the defense.  In America, anyway.


Proving that Zimmerman shot and killed Martin is easy.

Millennium: And yet, Zimmerman turned and went back to the truck: the one place he knew Martin could not have gone.


Zimmerman never went back to the truck.  The shooting didn't happen by the truck.  The body wasn't found by the truck.  He never returned to the truck.
 
2013-09-09 11:55:54 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The prosecution has an agenda; the jury is impartial.


Again, this doesn't make the jury instantly more capable, more just, more likely to reach rational conclusions. Also, lack of immediate agenda doesn't equal lack of bias or absolute impartiality.
 
2013-09-09 11:56:57 PM  

JuggleGeek: ahab: Pretty sure the burden of proof lies with the prosecution, not the defense.  In America, anyway.

Proving that Zimmerman shot and killed Martin is easy.

Millennium: And yet, Zimmerman turned and went back to the truck: the one place he knew Martin could not have gone.

Zimmerman never went back to the truck.  The shooting didn't happen by the truck.  The body wasn't found by the truck.  He never returned to the truck.


Yeah, he got interrupted on his way back.
 
2013-09-09 11:58:19 PM  
Lol @ all the dumbfarks who didnt rtfa.

Cops: no evidence of an assault, no gun, just as likely the wife initiated the situation.

Dumbfarks: zomg! Zimmerman! She said "gun"! Zomg he's guilty!!!1!!1!
 
2013-09-09 11:58:58 PM  

VendorXeno: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The prosecution has an agenda; the jury is impartial.

Again, this doesn't make the jury instantly more capable, more just, more likely to reach rational conclusions. Also, lack of immediate agenda doesn't equal lack of bias or absolute impartiality.


So, we should leave it up to the angry mob justice? Brilliant plan
 
2013-09-09 11:59:15 PM  

VendorXeno: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The prosecution has an agenda; the jury is impartial.

Again, this doesn't make the jury instantly more capable, more just, more likely to reach rational conclusions. Also, lack of immediate agenda doesn't equal lack of bias or absolute impartiality.


I watched the whole trial, and had additional information on both people. I find it far more likely that George's story is the closest to the truth.
 
2013-09-09 11:59:55 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: VendorXeno: meintx2001: I actually believe that George's life is farked. Not because of what happened between him and Trayvon, but because so many people have it in their mind that they know better than the jury.  You psychotic idiots are what is truly wrong with this country.

Why wouldn't anyone know better than the jury? Were the jury picked because they were well educated in the law? Were they recognized as paragons of ethical philosophy? Did almighty Zeus bestow upon them the gift of divine wisdom?  Further, at least one member of the jury has gone on record as saying that in her opinion, Zimmerman was guilty of murder (not manslaughter, murder.) Another has gone on record saying that she now thinks they made the wrong decision. So which jurors are you supposing you agree with, you floundering bumblefark?

They literally observed the entire trial first hand.


Not the entire trial, actually. Most criminal trials spend at least some time arguing over what the jury can and cannot be shown, and the jury is (obviously) not present for this. The Zimmerman trial spent longer in these phases than most trials do. Scant as the evidence we saw was, the jury saw even less of it.

But yes: a couple of jurors have since expressed gut feelings and emotional responses that he might have done it. Fortunately, they did their job and stayed away from the nice, truthy narrative of Zimmerman's guilt, and judged from the facts instead.
 
2013-09-10 12:00:23 AM  
Interrupted, or never attempted to go back to the truck, either way, claiming "He went back to the truck" is a lie.
 
2013-09-10 12:02:03 AM  
Don't worry, George. In forty or fifty years this hole "shot a minor dead" thing will have blown over. If Lizzie Borden was alive today, she'd tell you the same thing.

Hell, if someone says "Casey Anthony," the only crime I can think of is Aggravated Duck Face.
 
2013-09-10 12:02:07 AM  
static.someecards.com
 
2013-09-10 12:03:15 AM  

s2s2s2: I watched the whole trial, and had additional information on both people. I find it far more likely that George's story is the closest to the truth.


Yeah, you also concluded and stated that I "Hated the facts" for, you know, stating the facts. You're not a reliable resource in this regard.
 
2013-09-10 12:03:27 AM  

JuggleGeek: ahab: Pretty sure the burden of proof lies with the prosecution, not the defense.  In America, anyway.

Proving that Zimmerman shot and killed Martin is easy.


Are you saying that all killing is murder?

Millennium: And yet, Zimmerman turned and went back to the truck: the one place he knew Martin could not have gone.

Zimmerman never went back to the truck.  The shooting didn't happen by the truck.  The body wasn't found by the truck.  He never returned to the truck.


Toward the truck, then, but he never got all the way back. Is that better?
 
2013-09-10 12:03:34 AM  

VendorXeno: s2s2s2: You hate facts.

Classic. Insults other person, alludes to "facts" as if saying the word magically makes an argument, fails to provide any facts. If this guy isn't a conservative he's doing a great impression of one.


I'm pro-choice, pro-gay, pro-socialized medicine, I believe the drug war is a purely racist policy, and that white men in power actively try to suppress all non-white people.

I also believe George's story. The facts are easy to find, and I've used them in previous threads. I'm posting on an iPad, and that makes pulling up the facts...challenging.

Calling me a conservative is pretty insulting. Got any facts to provide?
 
2013-09-10 12:05:10 AM  

VendorXeno: s2s2s2: I watched the whole trial, and had additional information on both people. I find it far more likely that George's story is the closest to the truth.

Yeah, you also concluded and stated that I "Hated the facts" for, you know, stating the facts. You're not a reliable resource in this regard.


Provide some facts.
 
2013-09-10 12:07:09 AM  
FACT: more than 70% of domestic violence situations are initiated by the WOMAN striking first.

FACT: men are blamed more than 90% of the time because the woman lies and says the man initiated and the coos automatically believe her bc of some antiquated belief that a woman cant possibly be the person who starts the problem by being the person to throw the first punch (or grab a knife/bat/gun/whatever)

FACT: they are going through a not-so-amicable divorce.

FACT: the cops didnt believe her and found NO evidence of an assault or a gun.


Conclusion: the wife probably started the whole situation, and called 911 fake-sobbing and lied, claimed he assaulted her father...and added the part about a gun just for good measure to ensure the cops would see HER as the victim. 90% of her story was most likely a complete fabrication based on the evidence and most likely scenario.

/logic. Try some.
 
2013-09-10 12:07:24 AM  

JuggleGeek: Interrupted, or never attempted to go back to the truck, either way, claiming "He went back to the truck" is a lie.


"Went to" as if to imply intent. It is not the same as saying, "got to".
 
2013-09-10 12:07:30 AM  

s2s2s2: Calling me a conservative is pretty insulting. Got any facts to provide?


I didn't call you a conservative. I said that either you were one or were doing a remarkably good impression of one. Reading comprehension, there's a reason it's taught in schools."

As for George's story, I believe the original version of it, too. He, by his own claims, saw a person in public doing absolutely nothing wrong. In response he armed himself, got into his vehicle, pursued and harassed that individual. He is recorded speaking of the person he was pursuing in a hostile and threatening manner. He left his vehicle and continued pursuit despite being given clear and sound advice to do neither, forced a confrontation and gunned down an unarmed person committing no crime. He then tried to claim that forcing this entirely unavoidable confrontation on an unarmed teen committing no crime in public constituted self defense. And only an absolute imbecile, given those facts, doesn't recognize that as clear negligent manslaughter.
 
2013-09-10 12:09:10 AM  

The more you eat the more you fart: FACT: more than 70% of domestic violence situations are initiated by the WOMAN striking first.

FACT: men are blamed more than 90% of the time because the woman lies and says the man initiated and the coos automatically believe her bc of some antiquated belief that a woman cant possibly be the person who starts the problem by being the person to throw the first punch (or grab a knife/bat/gun/whatever)

FACT: they are going through a not-so-amicable divorce.

FACT: the cops didnt believe her and found NO evidence of an assault or a gun.


Conclusion: the wife probably started the whole situation, and called 911 fake-sobbing and lied, claimed he assaulted her father...and added the part about a gun just for good measure to ensure the cops would see HER as the victim. 90% of her story was most likely a complete fabrication based on the evidence and most likely scenario.

/logic. Try some.


You love facts.
 
2013-09-10 12:09:43 AM  
Glad to see her stand her ground.
 
2013-09-10 12:10:55 AM  

s2s2s2: The more you eat the more you fart: FACT: more than 70% of domestic violence situations are initiated by the WOMAN striking first.

FACT: men are blamed more than 90% of the time because the woman lies and says the man initiated and the coos automatically believe her bc of some antiquated belief that a woman cant possibly be the person who starts the problem by being the person to throw the first punch (or grab a knife/bat/gun/whatever)

FACT: they are going through a not-so-amicable divorce.

FACT: the cops didnt believe her and found NO evidence of an assault or a gun.


Conclusion: the wife probably started the whole situation, and called 911 fake-sobbing and lied, claimed he assaulted her father...and added the part about a gun just for good measure to ensure the cops would see HER as the victim. 90% of her story was most likely a complete fabrication based on the evidence and most likely scenario.

/logic. Try some.

You love facts.


Yes i do...because they are the only things that matter...especially when the same person that made the 911 call saying he had a gun then admits to the cops that she made it up.

The rest is speculation.
 
2013-09-10 12:14:35 AM  

The more you eat the more you fart: FACT: more than 70% of domestic violence situations are initiated by the WOMAN striking first.

FACT: men are blamed more than 90% of the time because the woman lies and says the man initiated and the coos automatically believe her bc of some antiquated belief that a woman cant possibly be the person who starts the problem by being the person to throw the first punch (or grab a knife/bat/gun/whatever)

FACT: they are going through a not-so-amicable divorce.

FACT: the cops didnt believe her and found NO evidence of an assault or a gun.


Conclusion: the wife probably started the whole situation, and called 911 fake-sobbing and lied, claimed he assaulted her father...and added the part about a gun just for good measure to ensure the cops would see HER as the victim. 90% of her story was most likely a complete fabrication based on the evidence and most likely scenario.

/logic. Try some.


They just broke this down on the radio, this sounds like she got one hell of a lawyer and hit the media hard.  Shes probably playing a very public relations game, she wants a big cut of all future earnings and a life insurance policy on him payable to her that he pays for.  and the fact that if there was assault battery destruction of property and brandishing and threatening with a gun, did not lead to an arrest or even a taking to the dept, this is nuts.  A story that just wont die
 
2013-09-10 12:15:02 AM  
Do my line of work.

Ive sewn up quite a few stab wounds caused by a woman because they had an argument and the wife/gf/whatever goes and gets a butcher knife and attacks her husband/bf because shes pissed at him.

Of course...she ALWAYS says "he hit me first so i had to stab him!"
 
2013-09-10 12:17:09 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Interesting, I wonder who it was.  Maybe he found out his wife was seeing someone behind his back for a while.


Someone probably already said this but if not, it would be funny as hell if it was a black guy.
 
2013-09-10 12:20:07 AM  

VendorXeno: s2s2s2: Calling me a conservative is pretty insulting. Got any facts to provide?

I didn't call you a conservative. I said that either you were one or were doing a remarkably good impression of one. Reading comprehension, there's a reason it's taught in schools."

As for George's story, I believe the original version of it, too. He, by his own claims, saw a person in public doing absolutely nothing wrong. In response he armed himself, got into his vehicle, pursued and harassed that individual. He is recorded speaking of the person he was pursuing in a hostile and threatening manner. He left his vehicle and continued pursuit despite being given clear and sound advice to do neither, forced a confrontation and gunned down an unarmed person committing no crime. He then tried to claim that forcing this entirely unavoidable confrontation on an unarmed teen committing no crime in public constituted self defense. And only an absolute imbecile, given those facts, doesn't recognize that as clear negligent manslaughter.


I see you still have no facts.

He said he saw someone acting suspiciously, potentially on drugs. This brings us to fact #1: Martin, according to the medical examiner, had likely become inebriated within the hour.
Fact #2: George did not arm himself upon seeing Martin. He armed himself before going grocery shopping.
Fact#3: he was already in his truck when he saw Martin, as he was on his way back from Target.

"Pursued" and "harassed" are not facts, they are speculation.

Fact#4: He made no threatening statements on the 911 call.
Fact#5 He was already out of his car when told he did not need to follow. The dispatcher testified that it was reasonable that George interpreted,"let me know if this guy does anything else" as "keep an eye on him". He also testified that he asked about "following" because he realized he had given that impression, inadvertently.

"Forced a confrontation" is utter bullshiat.

You.
Hate.
Facts.
 
2013-09-10 12:26:33 AM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: This is what you all defended. Smh.


Too busy shaking you head to keep up with this one? She lied.
 
2013-09-10 12:29:45 AM  

s2s2s2: He said he saw someone acting suspiciously, potentially on drugs. This brings us to fact #1: Martin, according to the medical examiner, had likely become inebriated within the hour.


False, no "within the hour" statement appears on the toxicology report or anywhere else. Further, Zimmerman isn't qualified to determine or respond to "possible inebriation." Had it been apparent, it would also have been apparent in Martin's phone conversations. I like how you cherry pick your hearsay, present it as relevant fact and then make up facts about the autopsy to justify it. 

"Pursued" and "harassed" are not facts, they are speculation

False. That is what Zimmerman describes himself, specifically, as doing. It's not speculation, it's his testimony.

"Forced a confrontation" is utter bullshiat.

That's what pursuing someone in public, grabbing a gun, getting into a fight with them is. It's forcing a confrontation.

Goodnight, Gracie
 
2013-09-10 12:32:50 AM  

VendorXeno: s2s2s2: He said he saw someone acting suspiciously, potentially on drugs. This brings us to fact #1: Martin, according to the medical examiner, had likely become inebriated within the hour.

False, no "within the hour" statement appears on the toxicology report or anywhere else. Further, Zimmerman isn't qualified to determine or respond to "possible inebriation." Had it been apparent, it would also have been apparent in Martin's phone conversations. I like how you cherry pick your hearsay, present it as relevant fact and then make up facts about the autopsy to justify it.
"Pursued" and "harassed" are not facts, they are speculation

False. That is what Zimmerman describes himself, specifically, as doing. It's not speculation, it's his testimony.

"Forced a confrontation" is utter bullshiat.

That's what pursuing someone in public, grabbing a gun, getting into a fight with them is. It's forcing a confrontation.

Goodnight, Gracie


Gracie's dead. So is your argument. You have no grasp of this case or the relevant facts. Sleep like a rock, my friend. You clearly think like one.
 
2013-09-10 12:35:30 AM  

Millennium: Are you saying that all killing is murder?


No, but considering your a farking liar, I'm not surprised to see you twist my words that way.
 
2013-09-10 12:45:26 AM  

TheJoe03: TuteTibiImperes: Interesting, I wonder who it was.  Maybe he found out his wife was seeing someone behind his back for a while.

Someone probably already said this but if not, it would be funny as hell if it was a black guy.


She's looking pretty fat lately, so that's a high probability
 
2013-09-10 12:56:45 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: She's looking pretty fat lately, so that's a high probability


LOL, nice.
 
2013-09-10 01:06:23 AM  

Cataholic: [static.someecards.com image 420x294]


I know, right?  Can't a guy just threaten to kill his estranged wife and her father anymore without somebody JUDGING him?
 
2013-09-10 01:07:55 AM  
So now she's changed her story saying she never saw a gun and her father never was touched, seems someone was right all along, and it was me.
 
2013-09-10 01:12:02 AM  
Can't flam the zim zam!! I donated to his defense.
 
2013-09-10 01:18:12 AM  

Rhino_man: Cataholic: [static.someecards.com image 420x294]

I know, right?  Can't a guy just threaten to kill his estranged wife and her father anymore without somebody JUDGING him?


Except that none of it actually...you know...HAPPENED.
 
2013-09-10 01:19:02 AM  

steamingpile: So now she's changed her story saying she never saw a gun and her father never was touched, seems someone was right all along, and it was me.


And me. Said it back on page 3 i think.
 
2013-09-10 01:24:22 AM  

steamingpile: So now she's changed her story saying she never saw a gun and her father never was touched, seems someone was right all along, and it was me.


The more you eat the more you fart: And me. Said it back on page 3 i think.


Don't worry. In a week or two, it will be "look at this dirtbag that pulled a gun on his wife" and we'll be right back to square one.
 
2013-09-10 01:55:00 AM  

Elegy: Don't worry. In a week or two, it will be "look at this dirtbag that pulled a gun on his wife" and we'll be right back to square one.


And you'll be here to white knight St. Zimmerman once again. If Zimmerman shiat in your mouth and told you it was steak you would smile and ask for seconds.
 
2013-09-10 02:01:50 AM  

NightOwl2255: Elegy: Don't worry. In a week or two, it will be "look at this dirtbag that pulled a gun on his wife" and we'll be right back to square one.

And you'll be here to white knight St. Zimmerman once again. If Zimmerman shiat in your mouth and told you it was steak you would smile and ask for seconds.


It's a nutritionally balanced meal replacement.

You know, for a guy who claimed to be an impartial "devil's advocate" during the trial, you've sure shown your true colors in these post-trial threads.

Bitter much?
 
2013-09-10 02:08:01 AM  

NightOwl2255: Elegy: Don't worry. In a week or two, it will be "look at this dirtbag that pulled a gun on his wife" and we'll be right back to square one.

And you'll be here to white knight St. Zimmerman once again. If Zimmerman shiat in your mouth and told you it was steak you would smile and ask for seconds.


Lmfao!!!!

You sure are illiterate.

No one is white-knighting anyone....if you bothered to READ you would see that the wife basically made the entire story up.
 
2013-09-10 03:07:08 AM  
It appears there is no convincing his admirers that George Zimmerman is anything but the coolest dude ever. It's everyone BUT him that have lead to his troubles! TWO women in his life (Shellie & ex-GF Veronica Zauzo) accusing the poor, gentle soul of domestic violence? That's some bad luck! It's amazing, with all of the women I've dated over the last 25 years that I've never been accused of such, nor have any family of said partner made such a claim. In fact, I'm managed to never have the police called on me ever.  Very unusual, apparently. But for the grace of God, I could be in his position!

We really should start a pool. The implosion is coming, and while I hope no innocents are harmed, I've a feeling it will be spectacular.
 
2013-09-10 03:26:36 AM  

TheJoe03: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: She's looking pretty fat lately, so that's a high probability

LOL, nice.


With the robes creating wind drag and generally being a bit more cumbersome, does it negatively effect the impact and spontaneity of high fives or do you do them so often that you're used to it and it's now a non-issue?
 
2013-09-10 03:32:08 AM  

MagSeven: With the robes creating wind drag and generally being a bit more cumbersome, does it negatively effect the impact and spontaneity of high fives or do you do them so often that you're used to it and it's now a non-issue?


I think Zimmerman is a total schmuck, so go eat a dick for accusing me of being racist because I thought a goofy racial joke was somewhat amusing. I really can't believe you'd say that given my posting history, but I guess you have no sense of humor. Lighten up and throw the KKK references at me when I actually say something racist, because I just lost a good deal of respect for your point of view.
 
2013-09-10 03:56:28 AM  

TheJoe03: MagSeven: With the robes creating wind drag and generally being a bit more cumbersome, does it negatively effect the impact and spontaneity of high fives or do you do them so often that you're used to it and it's now a non-issue?

I think Zimmerman is a total schmuck, so go eat a dick for accusing me of being racist because I thought a goofy racial joke was somewhat amusing. I really can't believe you'd say that given my posting history, but I guess you have no sense of humor. Lighten up and throw the KKK references at me when I actually say something racist, because I just lost a good deal of respect for your point of view.

Racist? I logically assume everyone up this time of night is wearing a robe. Thought you boys were rocking your humor Heffner style. Almost spilled my rocks glass of Bushmills.
HURR HURRR HURRRRRR! Go0d ONE!1
 
2013-09-10 04:00:55 AM  

MagSeven: Racist? I logically assume everyone up this time of night is wearing a robe. Thought you boys were rocking your humor Heffner style. Almost spilled my rocks glass of Bushmills.
HURR HURRR HURRRRRR! Go0d ONE!1


Uh, okay, at least you backed off your statement in your own unique way. Respect for doing so in a somewhat humorous way, I guess.
 
2013-09-10 04:02:54 AM  
Bushmills does sound good, but no hard liquor on Monday, just some beer for the football game.
 
2013-09-10 04:11:44 AM  

fredklein: Fubini: The evidence is pretty clear that Zimmerman completely lost track of Martin, to the point of giving up and retreating back to his truck. That fact alone casts significant doubt on the image of Zimmerman as the aggressor.

Which is enough, when the bar is "Beyond a reasonable doubt."

Sorry, no. As has been pointed out, there were 3-4 minutes between Zimmerman saying "Okay" to the police dispatcher's "We don't need you to do that", and the fatal shot. What was Zimmerman doing in those minutes? Not heading back to his truck, or he would have gotten to it (it was only 30 seconds away).


Lack of evidence is not evidence.

Whatever you think of Zimmerman or Martin, there was just no way to get beyond reasonable doubt, especially not from the evidence presented at trial.
 
2013-09-10 04:13:09 AM  

TheJoe03: MagSeven: Racist? I logically assume everyone up this time of night is wearing a robe. Thought you boys were rocking your humor Heffner style. Almost spilled my rocks glass of Bushmills.
HURR HURRR HURRRRRR! Go0d ONE!1

Uh, okay, at least you backed off your statement in your own unique way. Respect for doing so in a somewhat humorous way, I guess.


Meh. I like racist jokes too. I don't really have a thin skin. I think I'm just farking with you because I'm a little drunk. Don't mind me.
 
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