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(Click Orlando)   You knew it was only a matter of time before Zimmerman was arrested in another gun incident. Drink   (clickorlando.com) divider line 1050
    More: News, George Zimmerman, Mark O'Mara, Bracknell  
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19366 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Sep 2013 at 4:11 PM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-09 10:45:46 PM

fredklein: s2s2s2: fredklein: freak7: lordjupiter: So what the self-defense enthusiasts are now saying is he should've retreated to his house and just called the police so they'd protect him from the guy following him home.  Is that right?

Who said that? What people are doing is countering the ridiculous claim that Zim chased down and grabbed Trayvon.

Why is it rediculous? He was chasing Trayvon up to that point, so why would he suddenly stop?
Trayvon was running away up to that point, why would be suddenly turn and confront?

It makes much more sense that they each kept acting as they had been- Zimmerman as hunter, chasing, and Trayvon as prey trying to get away.

How did he manage to keep up a calm conversation with Rachel if he was being "chased"?

I've gone over this before. Trayvon was probably hiding. (Only an idiot would lead a "creepy" armed guy right to his front door). Trayvon wasn't "calm"- he was trying to be quiet as he hid from the creepy guy hunting for him! Then Zimmerman, after a few minutes of looking, found him.


I know. You live to be wrong.
 
2013-09-09 10:46:43 PM
I care about this just about as much as Syria.
 
2013-09-09 10:47:56 PM

lordjupiter: s2s2s2: lordjupiter: s2s2s2: lordjupiter: s2s2s2: lordjupiter: s2s2s2: lordjupiter: s2s2s2: birdmanesq: freak7: birdmanesq: I find it interesting that you would simply make up something like that.

I find it interesting that you're commenting on a case you obviously know little about. Trayvon's female friend said that he was in his yard and then went back to where Zimmerman was. She also said that she believes that Trayvon threw the first punch.

So "arrived at home" actually means "in the yard of his home"?

It definitely means he went back to George, either way.

Give up.

Almost like he was trying to stand his ground.

You misspelled "commit assault". He succeeded at that.

If some strange guy is stalking you and following you to your house, are you standing your ground or just going out and randomly assaulting someone.


You have it backwards.

ZOMG! He was talking right at me!

Sorry, if you DO retreat, then go back, it's assault.


Not really, but you keep believing what makes you feel better.

Yeah. Facts work for me. Shellie(noted perjurer) has already recanted.

Zimmerman (noted killer) is merely not being charged by his wife.  This means nothing when it comes to what actually happened, and further proves my earlier points regarding the double standard when it comes to proof and character bias.

He is also not being charged by police. You got nothing.

I have as much as you.  You just choose to lionize a killer and possible racist who has had multiple accusations of violence and abuse.

Your choice.


No. You have nothing. You don't even have "lionize."
 
2013-09-09 10:49:23 PM
Trayvon was hiding in the bushes, scared for his life, and casually chatting on the phone with Jabba at the same time. Makes perfect sense.
 
2013-09-09 10:52:58 PM
They aren't pressing charges as of yet, so this story is essentially over.  The real question here is...

who gets last post?
 
2013-09-09 10:53:23 PM

birdmanesq: I seems like either vast media incompetence or some sort of sprawling left-wing conspiracy that prevented an important fact like Martin being home and then "returning to the scene" to attack Zimmerman from coming to the attention of the public. That seems like something that w


I don't know what news you listen to, but I got that off of a cable news network. It was the centerpiece of the defense's closing arguments- there was a substantial amount of time in which Zimmerman had lost track of Martin completely, and Martin could have disengaged completely and permanently.

They made a compelling case that Martin decided of his own will to return to Zimmerman and confront him.
 
2013-09-09 10:56:22 PM

birdmanesq: freak7: birdmanesq: pursue

Stop whatever you're doing and look up the definition of that word before you say anything else.

Oh, you guys and your dictionaries. It's like a Scalia wet dream.

I don't think it's open to question that Zimmerman pursued Martin. Even if you say he was following him to "observe and report" (*cough* bullsh*t *cough*) he still would have been pursuing him.


I just got an email from a 107 year-old Japanese soldier who still thinks WWII is going on.

He says you guys really need to face facts and move on.
 
2013-09-09 11:00:09 PM

ThatDarkFellow: Please.

All this was is a ploy from the coont he is married to in order to fabricate some evidence/abuse history so she can try and clean out the entire legal fund accrued for the divorce she's been talking about for the last 2 weeks.


I'm sad it took so long to point out the truth on this one. I thought Fark's legion of misogynists would've picked up on this straightaway! Here's some fun facts to start the ball rolling:

In her divorce petition, Shellie Zimmerman asked that her husband pay for a permanent life insurance policy with her named as the beneficiary, according to a divorce petition made public last week.

From over here: http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/national_world&id=92417 3 9

Zimmerman had offered to turn over surveillance tapes from security cameras at the house to investigators.

From over here: http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/09/us/george-zimmerman-detained/

Police tell us they did NOT find gun on George Zimmerman or anywhere at the scene of disturbance w/ wife-
Kim Segal CNN Miami (@CNNkimsegal)

Not your everyday domestic: Zimmerman had bodyguard with him during incident, offered cops tapes from home security cameras...-
Byron York (@ByronYork)


From over here: http://twitchy.com/2013/09/09/cnn-miami-police-found-no-gun-at-george - zimmerman-domestic-disturbance-call/

Looks like the fat biatch is trying to screw him over with negative publicity so she can haz all the stuff. Hey Zim, I see another attempted robber to take car of! :D
 
2013-09-09 11:00:48 PM
Say what you want, but Zimmerman is still a free man. Suck it.
 
2013-09-09 11:01:49 PM

birdmanesq: The thing I think is hilarious about this is that the only way you can infer that Martin "retreated and then re-engaged" is through a very liberal interpretation of pretty confused testimony. Which is proof of assault.

Contrast the fact that Zimmerman first actively pursued Martin in his truck and the left his truck to actively pursue him on foot. Which wasn't enough evidence to support some finding of assault.

There's enough cognitive dissonance there to be a Henry Cowell piano work.


I don't think anyone is arguing that, and the majority of people (I know) who defended Zimmerman also thought he was a stupid wannabe douchebag.

That said, the prosecution hung their hat on the idea that Zimmerman stalked and murdered Martin in cold blood with racial animus, or at the very least was the one who directly initiated the confrontation, which is what would have been necessary for a murder or manslaughter charge to stick. The evidence is pretty clear that Zimmerman completely lost track of Martin, to the point of giving up and retreating back to his truck. That fact alone casts significant doubt on the image of Zimmerman as the aggressor.

Which is enough, when the bar is "Beyond a reasonable doubt."
 
2013-09-09 11:03:01 PM

s2s2s2: abfab: So the consensus is if it's Zim's word against his wife's, we should believe him. The problem with that is there was a witness/second victim (her dad) and he apparently supports her story. They could be ganging up on him, but how likely is that, really? Yes, she committed perjury (apparently at his behest, and to benefit him) but didn't he also concoct some wild tale of saving some family in a car crash recently? That turned out to be utter b.s., IIRC, so his credibility ain't looking too shiny either.

And we all know a battered wife deciding not to press charges later means jackshiat. Frankly, it makes her story seem more genuine to me, since I've seen that next-day scenario of "But I love him!" way too many times. That's why many states have taken the option away from the victim, because they recant and possibly end up dead later.

There was no battery, no accusation of battery, no gun, nothing to corroborate her original claims, which both she, and her father have refused to continue with. George cooperated with police, offered the video footage from his security cameras, and Shellie has admitted there was no gun(no gun was found on George at the scene). My favorite part: He "Stayed in his damned car."


So the two of them decided to made up an elaborate, easily disproved story for what purpose? To entertain the 911 dispatcher? To court another perjury charge? To take a really, really long shot at possibly getting a slightly more favorable divorce settlement?

I'm just saying, there's a lot of highly suspect shiat surrounding this guy. And I'm 99.9% there will be more farkery from him soon. He just needs a little more rope, methinks.

/I know I'm sick in the head, but has anyone started a pool yet? I can't resist odds like these!
 
2013-09-09 11:10:04 PM

freak7: The gunshot was fired 3 minutes and 41 seconds after Zimmerman hung up.


And how long was the fight? 30 seconds? That leaves 3 minutes and 10 seconds of Zimmerman looking around, AFTER he acknowledged that he 'didn't need to do that'.
 
2013-09-09 11:11:51 PM

Phinn: fredklein: freak7: fredklein: Why is it rediculous? He was chasing Trayvon up to that point, so why would he suddenly stop?

So for the almost two minutes that Zimmerman was on the phone after reporting to dispatch that "he's gone", Zimmerman was actually chasing Trayvon around the building. In your version of events, is Yakkity Sax playing?

As I recall there were 3 to 4 minutes after Zimmerman said "okay" to the dispatcher's "we don't need you do to that" and hung up, before the fight started.

You tell me- what was Zimmerman doing for those minutes?? Not walking back to his truck- that was only 30 seconds away.

The answer, of course, is that he was still hunting for Trayvon. And he found him. The GF's testimony is that they traded words, then Trayvon shouted "Get off me! Get off me!" Why would be shout that if he was attacking Zimmerman? On the other bond, it makes perfect sense if Zimmerman attacked him.

If scientists could use tears of impotent rage as an energy source, you could single-handedly power the Indian subcontinent.


If scientists could harness the power of deflections and ad hominems, you could power the world.
 
2013-09-09 11:12:09 PM
Let's just enjoy a brief history of some modern conservative working class heroes! Let's see, we've got George Zimmerman, Sarah Palin, Mark Kessler, Andrew Breitbart, Joe the Plumber, Joe Arpaio, James O'keefe, Herman Cain....good stuff!
 
2013-09-09 11:12:47 PM

abfab: So the two of them decided to made up an elaborate, easily disproved story for what purpose? To entertain the 911 dispatcher? To court another perjury charge? To take a really, really long shot at possibly getting a slightly more favorable divorce settlement?


Genius, right? No one has ever before thought to make spurious, easily refutable claims to get a more favorable settlement. Remember the last witness for the defense? The one that said George offered to let her stay at his place with his wife, during the day? Shellie has a work allergy.

abfab: I'm just saying, there's a lot of highly suspect shiat surrounding this guy


*people.
 
2013-09-09 11:14:33 PM

freak7: fredklein: Only an idiot would lead a "creepy" armed guy right to his front door

Of all the ridiculous things, this is one of the worst. You want to claim that Trayvon was a terrified kid and at the same time say that he wasn't going to run home to safety.


He couldn't out-run a bullet.

And , if you bother to look at the pictures of the scene, you'll see that it's a long, straight path home for him. Where he could easily be shot, or simply followed home. Like I said, only an idiot leads someone hunting them straight to their home.
 
2013-09-09 11:14:40 PM

lordjupiter: Millennium: lordjupiter: Millennium: lordjupiter: Only if you classify the truth as a riduculous misrepresentation. Which fits the profile of bias and distorted perceptions perfectly. Thank you for proving my point.

Hold on; do you mean to tell me that you actually think that there is no way a thinking, rational adult can support Zimmerman's acquittal unless they're racist? Because that is most definitely what you're saying; I'm just trying to figure out if you're being disingenuous or if you are actually that blind.

Nice try.

Do you think it is possible for a thinking, rational adult to support Zimmerman's acquittal without being racist, or don't you? It's a very simple question.

And one that's irrelevant to my point.  Bias is not necessarily racial.

Grandstand all you want.  I don't care.


Hold on; so you're claiming some sort of bias other than racial?

Fascinating. I don't think I've heard someone claim that in connection with this case. What sorts of bias do you think might be playing a role here? Do you admit the possibility of an unbiased viewpoint coming to a conclusion opposite yours?
 
2013-09-09 11:15:39 PM

s2s2s2: fredklein: s2s2s2: fredklein: freak7: lordjupiter: So what the self-defense enthusiasts are now saying is he should've retreated to his house and just called the police so they'd protect him from the guy following him home.  Is that right?

Who said that? What people are doing is countering the ridiculous claim that Zim chased down and grabbed Trayvon.

Why is it rediculous? He was chasing Trayvon up to that point, so why would he suddenly stop?
Trayvon was running away up to that point, why would be suddenly turn and confront?

It makes much more sense that they each kept acting as they had been- Zimmerman as hunter, chasing, and Trayvon as prey trying to get away.

How did he manage to keep up a calm conversation with Rachel if he was being "chased"?

I've gone over this before. Trayvon was probably hiding. (Only an idiot would lead a "creepy" armed guy right to his front door). Trayvon wasn't "calm"- he was trying to be quiet as he hid from the creepy guy hunting for him! Then Zimmerman, after a few minutes of looking, found him.

I know. You live to be wrong.


I eagerly await your proof that I am wrong.

/not holding my breath
 
2013-09-09 11:16:15 PM
Zimmerman needs to go hang out in front of a local TV station office drinking Arizona Iced Tea, eating Skittles and wearing a hoodie.
 
2013-09-09 11:17:05 PM

Fubini: there was a substantial amount of time in which Zimmerman had lost track of Martin completely, and Martin could have disengaged completely and permanently.


Not if Trayvon was hiding, and leaving his hiding place would have revealed him.
 
2013-09-09 11:17:47 PM

fredklein: And how long was the fight? 30 seconds? That leaves 3 minutes and 10 seconds of Zimmerman looking around, AFTER he acknowledged that he 'didn't need to do that'.


Two minutes after Zim hung up, a witness heard a fight and called 911. Considering the fight happened within 20 feet of the T intersection of the sidewalk where Zimmerman was when he hung up, what are you saying? Are you claiming that he did a few laps around the complex, looking for Trayvon?

I'd say that he stood there for a bit, maybe walked down the sidewalk a ways or over to the other street and then was walking back towards his vehicle when Trayvon appeared and starting questioning him.
 
2013-09-09 11:17:54 PM

abfab: didn't he also concoct some wild tale of saving some family in a car crash recently? That turned out to be utter b.s., IIRC, so his credibility ain't looking too shiny either.


You don't.
 
2013-09-09 11:18:00 PM

Witness99: Yeah but did you guys know that Miley Cyrus is now twerking with little people in Germany? It's really a toss up which story to indulge tonight, hmmm.....Drink?


Meh, personally I don't like watching little people twerk.  There's just something odd and off-putting about a frame of their proportions going through that movement.  It's the same feeling I get with average sized people river dancing.  And it goes way beyond the fap difficulty level.  I mean, Miley sounds like a lot lizard name.  So drink it is.
 
2013-09-09 11:19:38 PM

fredklein: And , if you bother to look at the pictures of the scene, you'll see that it's a long, straight path home for him. Where he could easily be shot, or simply followed home. Like I said, only an idiot leads someone hunting them straight to their home.



Let's put this statement into perspective : The subject is a teenage Florida urbanite. The advice is armchair combat tactics from a forum contributor. So in short, all teens are expected to know, and agree with, and be able to accurately implement some neckbeard's interpretation of basic training when being unexpectedly pursued or they're, "idiots." What kind of lifestyle do you think Martin lived, dude?
 
2013-09-09 11:20:06 PM

Fubini: The evidence is pretty clear that Zimmerman completely lost track of Martin, to the point of giving up and retreating back to his truck. That fact alone casts significant doubt on the image of Zimmerman as the aggressor.

Which is enough, when the bar is "Beyond a reasonable doubt."


Sorry, no. As has been pointed out, there were 3-4 minutes between Zimmerman saying "Okay" to the police dispatcher's "We don't need you to do that", and the fatal shot. What was Zimmerman doing in those minutes? Not heading back to his truck, or he would have gotten to it (it was only 30 seconds away).
 
2013-09-09 11:21:08 PM

fredklein: And , if you bother to look at the pictures of the scene, you'll see that it's a long, straight path home for him. Where he could easily be shot, or simply followed home. Like I said, only an idiot leads someone hunting them straight to their home.


I've looked at the pictures of the scene and can guarantee you that I know more about this case than you ever will. In the end, all you have are some wild speculations and we all know that you don't convict a person of a crime based on what you think happened.

Enjoy the rest of you're night, I'm out.
 
2013-09-09 11:22:36 PM

fredklein: freak7: fredklein: Only an idiot would lead a "creepy" armed guy right to his front door

Of all the ridiculous things, this is one of the worst. You want to claim that Trayvon was a terrified kid and at the same time say that he wasn't going to run home to safety.

He couldn't out-run a bullet.


Nor wwas he trying to. Ballistics tests were quite clear about this: he was shot from the front.

And , if you bother to look at the pictures of the scene, you'll see that it's a long, straight path home for him. Where he could easily be shot, or simply followed home. Like I said, only an idiot leads someone hunting them straight to their home.

I think you've been watching too many action movies, personally. It's not nearly as tactically unsound a maneuver as you make it out to be. But even if "only an idiot" would do such a thing, that would not make it in any way implausible. Even very smart people do stupid things when they panic, and what better reason is there to panic than thinking (rightly or wrongly) that you're being hunted?|
 
2013-09-09 11:23:15 PM
Thanks for Farking me,  birdmanesq!!
 
2013-09-09 11:28:05 PM

fredklein: Fubini: The evidence is pretty clear that Zimmerman completely lost track of Martin, to the point of giving up and retreating back to his truck. That fact alone casts significant doubt on the image of Zimmerman as the aggressor.

Which is enough, when the bar is "Beyond a reasonable doubt."

Sorry, no. As has been pointed out, there were 3-4 minutes between Zimmerman saying "Okay" to the police dispatcher's "We don't need you to do that", and the fatal shot. What was Zimmerman doing in those minutes? Not heading back to his truck, or he would have gotten to it (it was only 30 seconds away).


If he was hunting Martin, he should have been much further away from the truck. Either he never did (making Martin the aggressor), or he started but then thought better of it and turned back. The latter is a clear and unambiguous de-escalation, which once again makes Martin the aggressor. This leaves no plausible situation in which Zimmerman started the fight.
 
2013-09-09 11:28:10 PM
I actually believe that George's life is farked. Not because of what happened between him and Trayvon, but because so many people have it in their mind that they know better than the jury.  You psychotic idiots are what is truly wrong with this country.

George can be my neighbor anytime.
 
2013-09-09 11:29:27 PM

freak7: fredklein: And how long was the fight? 30 seconds? That leaves 3 minutes and 10 seconds of Zimmerman looking around, AFTER he acknowledged that he 'didn't need to do that'.

Two minutes after Zim hung up, a witness heard a fight and called 911

Um...

7:11:59 - In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman responds with, "Yes." Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman: "OK."

7:12:00 - 7:12:59 - The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.

7:13:10 - Zimmerman says he does not know Martin's location.

7:13:41 - The end of Zimmerman's call to Sanford police.

7:16:00 - 7:16:59 - Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.

7:16:11 - First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.

7:16:55 - Gunshot heard on 911 call.

-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_shooting_of_Trayvon_Mar t in

4 minutes and 12 seconds between "OK" and the first 911 call about the fight. And another 44 seconds until the gunshot.

(Oh, and even if you count from the time Zimmerman hung up ( 7:13:41) to the first 911 call ( 7:16:11), it's still over 2 minutes- 2 minutes, 30 seconds.

Considering the fight happened within 20 feet of the T intersection of the sidewalk where Zimmerman was when he hung up, what are you saying? Are you claiming that he did a few laps around the complex, looking for Trayvon?
Nope- I'm claiming that he continued to look for Trayvon. Peering around corners, looking in shadows, etc.

I'd say that he stood there for a bit, maybe walked down the sidewalk a ways or over to the other street.../i>

WHY?

To look for Trayvon.

Which is exactly what I said- he continued to look for Trayvon, even though he 'didn't need to do that'.

 
2013-09-09 11:29:44 PM

freak7: I'd say that he stood there for a bit, maybe walked down the sidewalk a ways or over to the other street and then was walking back towards his vehicle when Trayvon appeared and starting questioning him.


freak7 Account created:2013-08-19 21:33:14

So, an alt. I'm guessing Frep's.
 
2013-09-09 11:31:23 PM

VendorXeno: fredklein: And , if you bother to look at the pictures of the scene, you'll see that it's a long, straight path home for him. Where he could easily be shot, or simply followed home. Like I said, only an idiot leads someone hunting them straight to their home.


Let's put this statement into perspective : The subject is a teenage Florida urbanite. The advice is armchair combat tactics from a forum contributor. So in short, all teens are expected to know, and agree with, and be able to accurately implement some neckbeard's interpretation of basic training when being unexpectedly pursued or they're, "idiots." What kind of lifestyle do you think Martin lived, dude?


So, you're saying that if you were being followed by a creepy armed guy, you'd just go straight home, thus showing the creep where you live?? And you would teach your kids to do the same?
 
2013-09-09 11:33:14 PM

fredklein: Fubini: The evidence is pretty clear that Zimmerman completely lost track of Martin, to the point of giving up and retreating back to his truck. That fact alone casts significant doubt on the image of Zimmerman as the aggressor.

Which is enough, when the bar is "Beyond a reasonable doubt."

Sorry, no. As has been pointed out, there were 3-4 minutes between Zimmerman saying "Okay" to the police dispatcher's "We don't need you to do that", and the fatal shot. What was Zimmerman doing in those minutes? Not heading back to his truck, or he would have gotten to it (it was only 30 seconds away).


This is the central problem in this case. Zero explanation here. The Zimmerman defenders don't care. There was definitely reasonable doubt, but there's also the bit about not guilty not having a damn thing to do with actual innocence.
 
2013-09-09 11:36:03 PM

Millennium: fredklein: Fubini: The evidence is pretty clear that Zimmerman completely lost track of Martin, to the point of giving up and retreating back to his truck. That fact alone casts significant doubt on the image of Zimmerman as the aggressor.

Which is enough, when the bar is "Beyond a reasonable doubt."

Sorry, no. As has been pointed out, there were 3-4 minutes between Zimmerman saying "Okay" to the police dispatcher's "We don't need you to do that", and the fatal shot. What was Zimmerman doing in those minutes? Not heading back to his truck, or he would have gotten to it (it was only 30 seconds away).

If he was hunting Martin, he should have been much further away from the truck.


Why?

He saw Trayvon round the corner. He himself reached and turned the corner, and cannot see Trayvon. Now, either Trayvon ran 300 feet home in the blink of an eye, or he's hiding somewhere nearby. Why would Zimmerman be 'much father away from the truck' when he was looking for Trayvon near(er) the truck?
 
2013-09-09 11:36:47 PM

boozehat: I care about this just about as much as Syria.


Is that Trayvon's girlfriend?
 
2013-09-09 11:38:15 PM

arentol: There was also evidence that Martin knew Zimmerman was armed with a gun...


Really? Could you elaborate on this? I never heard about any such evidence.

and therefore was legally justified in attempting to beat Zimmerman into unconsciousness...

Actually, no. Legitimate self-defense is not unlike the third rule of Fight Club: when the threat is neutralized, you stop. If your opponent continues to press until you've knocked him unconscious, that's one thing, but Zimmerman had clearly stopped: the fact that he did so is, in fact, one of the few things we've got an eyewitness account of. At that point, Martin should have too.

As to who initiated the fight, the evidence is really a toss up.

No, actually, it's not. The evidence points pretty clearly to Martin: not beyond a reasonable doubt, but Martin's not the one on trial.

The only way to break that tie would be for Martin to testify...

Why would Martin's testimony be able to break the tie, exactly? Would that not be essentially a he-said/she-said case, except for the fact that they're both male? Would he not have the same sorts of conflicts of interest that the J4T crowd loves to claim Zimmerman had?

but he can't, because HE IS FARKING DEAD.

And this bears relevance to the case... how, exactly?
 
2013-09-09 11:38:25 PM

Millennium: fredklein: Fubini: The evidence is pretty clear that Zimmerman completely lost track of Martin, to the point of giving up and retreating back to his truck. That fact alone casts significant doubt on the image of Zimmerman as the aggressor.

Which is enough, when the bar is "Beyond a reasonable doubt."

Sorry, no. As has been pointed out, there were 3-4 minutes between Zimmerman saying "Okay" to the police dispatcher's "We don't need you to do that", and the fatal shot. What was Zimmerman doing in those minutes? Not heading back to his truck, or he would have gotten to it (it was only 30 seconds away).

If he was hunting Martin, he should have been much further away from the truck. Either he never did (making Martin the aggressor), or he started but then thought better of it and turned back. The latter is a clear and unambiguous de-escalation, which once again makes Martin the aggressor. This leaves no plausible situation in which Zimmerman started the fight.


What horseshiat strawman is this? There are tons of things that could have happened in this time period, NONE of which point to Zimmerman dutifully heading back to his truck. Far more likely: he exchanged words with TM or decided to stay and see where he was. Why? Why not return immediately to his truck? If TM was there and instigating like you assume he was, why did Z not report this? What happened in those 3 minutes?
 
2013-09-09 11:39:12 PM

PC LOAD LETTER: This is the central problem in this case. Zero explanation here. The Zimmerman defenders don't care.


Exactly. And, as shown in this thread, the Zimmerman defenders will LIE about the length of time Zimmerman took hunting for Trayvon AFTER acknowledging he 'didn't need to do that'. If you have facts on your side, you don't need to lie.
 
2013-09-09 11:40:33 PM

Millennium: And this bears relevance to the case... how, exactly?


Because in normal states, you are NOT assumed innocent if you claim self defense. You have to prove it. Why? Because it farking makes sense, that's why.
 
2013-09-09 11:41:45 PM

fredklein: freak7: fredklein: Only an idiot would lead a "creepy" armed guy right to his front door

Of all the ridiculous things, this is one of the worst. You want to claim that Trayvon was a terrified kid and at the same time say that he wasn't going to run home to safety.

He couldn't out-run a bullet.

And , if you bother to look at the pictures of the scene, you'll see that it's a long, straight path home for him. Where he could easily be shot, or simply followed home. Like I said, only an idiot leads someone hunting them straight to their home.


If you had followed the trial, you would know that the alley was pitch dark. He'd have been invisible about half way down. He could have easily escaped, and gotten home, without George knowing where he had gone.
 
2013-09-09 11:42:58 PM

PC LOAD LETTER: Millennium: And this bears relevance to the case... how, exactly?

Because in normal states, you are NOT assumed innocent if you claim self defense. You have to prove it. Why? Because it farking makes sense, that's why.


Pretty sure the burden of proof lies with the prosecution, not the defense.  In America, anyway.
 
2013-09-09 11:43:44 PM

meintx2001: I actually believe that George's life is farked. Not because of what happened between him and Trayvon, but because so many people have it in their mind that they know better than the jury.  You psychotic idiots are what is truly wrong with this country.


Why wouldn't anyone know better than the jury? Were the jury picked because they were well educated in the law? Were they recognized as paragons of ethical philosophy? Did almighty Zeus bestow upon them the gift of divine wisdom?  Further, at least one member of the jury has gone on record as saying that in her opinion, Zimmerman was guilty of murder (not manslaughter, murder.) Another has gone on record saying that she now thinks they made the wrong decision. So which jurors are you supposing you agree with, you floundering bumblefark?
 
2013-09-09 11:44:47 PM

fredklein: So, you're saying that if you were being followed by a creepy armed guy, you'd just go straight home, thus showing the creep where you live?? And you would teach your kids to do the same?


Personally I would loose him first.  Then double back.
 
2013-09-09 11:45:08 PM

fredklein: He saw Trayvon round the corner. He himself reached and turned the corner, and cannot see Trayvon. Now, either Trayvon ran 300 feet home in the blink of an eye, or he's hiding somewhere nearby. Why would Zimmerman be 'much father away from the truck' when he was looking for Trayvon near(er) the truck?


He saw Martin reach the corner, turned and rounded the corner, and couldn't see him. Maybe he's hiding somewhere nearby, but he certainly didn't teleport behind Zimmerman. And yet, Zimmerman turned and went back to the truck: the one place he knew Martin could not have gone.

Why? What sense does it make to hunt someone in places you know they're not? The answer is simple: it makes no sense at all. Why do it, then? Simple: you're not hunting him.
 
2013-09-09 11:45:48 PM

fredklein: s2s2s2: fredklein: s2s2s2: fredklein: freak7: lordjupiter: So what the self-defense enthusiasts are now saying is he should've retreated to his house and just called the police so they'd protect him from the guy following him home.  Is that right?

Who said that? What people are doing is countering the ridiculous claim that Zim chased down and grabbed Trayvon.

Why is it rediculous? He was chasing Trayvon up to that point, so why would he suddenly stop?
Trayvon was running away up to that point, why would be suddenly turn and confront?

It makes much more sense that they each kept acting as they had been- Zimmerman as hunter, chasing, and Trayvon as prey trying to get away.

How did he manage to keep up a calm conversation with Rachel if he was being "chased"?

I've gone over this before. Trayvon was probably hiding. (Only an idiot would lead a "creepy" armed guy right to his front door). Trayvon wasn't "calm"- he was trying to be quiet as he hid from the creepy guy hunting for him! Then Zimmerman, after a few minutes of looking, found him.

I know. You live to be wrong.

I eagerly await your proof that I am wrong.

/not holding my breath


I also am not holding my breath for any proof from you. I also know you won't dig too deep into this case, because you'd find the proof that you are wrong.
 
2013-09-09 11:46:01 PM

VendorXeno: meintx2001: I actually believe that George's life is farked. Not because of what happened between him and Trayvon, but because so many people have it in their mind that they know better than the jury.  You psychotic idiots are what is truly wrong with this country.

Why wouldn't anyone know better than the jury? Were the jury picked because they were well educated in the law? Were they recognized as paragons of ethical philosophy? Did almighty Zeus bestow upon them the gift of divine wisdom?  Further, at least one member of the jury has gone on record as saying that in her opinion, Zimmerman was guilty of murder (not manslaughter, murder.) Another has gone on record saying that she now thinks they made the wrong decision. So which jurors are you supposing you agree with, you floundering bumblefark?


They literally observed the entire trial first hand.
 
2013-09-09 11:47:22 PM

fredklein: VendorXeno: fredklein: And , if you bother to look at the pictures of the scene, you'll see that it's a long, straight path home for him. Where he could easily be shot, or simply followed home. Like I said, only an idiot leads someone hunting them straight to their home.


Let's put this statement into perspective : The subject is a teenage Florida urbanite. The advice is armchair combat tactics from a forum contributor. So in short, all teens are expected to know, and agree with, and be able to accurately implement some neckbeard's interpretation of basic training when being unexpectedly pursued or they're, "idiots." What kind of lifestyle do you think Martin lived, dude?

So, you're saying that if you were being followed by a creepy armed guy, you'd just go straight home, thus showing the creep where you live?? And you would teach your kids to do the same?


No, what I'm saying, clearly, and what I've already seen other people say to you, so you definitely know this, is that a panicked teenage American is not an "idiot" because he doesn't adhere to your game plan. Since you tried to make a straw man of that, I can safely conclude that you're not interested in an intelligent, honest dialogue on this subject. Enjoy using fallacy to build a wall around your bad ideas!
 
2013-09-09 11:47:40 PM

freak7: I find it interesting that you're commenting on a case you obviously know little about. Trayvon's female friend said that he was in his yard and then went back to where Zimmerman was. She also said that she believes that Trayvon threw the first punch.


She said he was "by his daddy's house".  She did not say he was in the yard as best I can tell.

That's not the same as "he went home, then came back" the way you guys keep pretending.  Talking on the phone, you can easily be a block away and tell them "I'm close to my dads house" or similar.

If you can show me video of her saying "He was in his dads yard", I'd appreciate it, but I've looked, and the claims the Zimmerman lovers make and the actual video don't seem to match up.  I think you know that, and are just lying about "She said he was in his dads yard", but if you can show some actual video footage or a transcript, I'd be happy to see it.
 
2013-09-09 11:47:45 PM

meintx2001: ...but because so many people have it in their mind that they know better than the jury.  You psychotic idiots are what is truly wrong with this country.

George can be my neighbor anytime.


Word. I wish OJ'd move to my cul de sac. Juries do know best.
 
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