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(Click Orlando)   You knew it was only a matter of time before Zimmerman was arrested in another gun incident. Drink   (clickorlando.com) divider line 1050
    More: News, George Zimmerman, Mark O'Mara, Bracknell  
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19367 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Sep 2013 at 4:11 PM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-09 07:38:13 PM

Fubini: The All-Powerful Atheismo: This is factually wrong.  Stand Your Ground applies regardless of whether you think the lawyers "invoked" it, so it very much has a bearing on the case, as was stated by a member of the JURY.

You are incorrect. The following jury instructions stemmed from common law (not Stand Your Ground):

If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Just because the instructions include the phrase "stand your ground" does not mean that the defense was invoking the Stand Your Ground law, or that the jury were using the Stand Your Ground law to reason about the case. Case in point- the defense established beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was underneath Martin at the time of the shooting, so the above description applies equally in that context (Zimmerman had no duty to retreat because of his position) or in general (A person has no duty to retreat in general self defense).

Even if you think I'm wrong about the jury instructions, and you're welcome to believe that I'm wrong, you cannot deny that the Stand Your Ground provisions are moot once you've accepted that Zimmerman was on the ground and unable to escape. The presence of the law (or lack thereof) would not have changed the outcome of the trial. Ergo, Stand Your Ground had no bearing on the trial.


IIRC, the notion of "invoking the Stand Your Ground law" involves the defense requesting an evidentiary hearing (that would occur BEFORE any actual trial), where they would present testimony and evidence to show that the defendant acted in accordance with the requirements of that law, and therefore committed no crime.

There was no hearing of that sort, and in fact the defense never requested one. So the Stand Your Ground law (as you say) had no bearing on the trial. It was a standard self-defense case that could have been presented the same way even before the Stand Your Ground law was enacted.
 
2013-09-09 07:41:26 PM
George's true nature is showing...some people will have a hard time with that after they blindly supported him. the gun threat, the aggressive behavior puts the death of a 17 yr old in a new light now doesn't it.
 
2013-09-09 07:43:47 PM

catmandu: George's true nature is showing...some people will have a hard time with that after they blindly supported him. the gun threat, the aggressive behavior puts the death of a 17 yr old in a new light now doesn't it.


Those Zimmerman supporters should be consistent and do their best to make sure that the wife is armed so she can defend herself.
 
2013-09-09 07:43:55 PM

Cybernetic: There was no hearing of that sort, and in fact the defense never requested one. So the Stand Your Ground law (as you say) had no bearing on the trial. It was a standard self-defense case that could have been presented the same way even before the Stand Your Ground law was enacted.


Or at the very least, it should not have had any bearing on the trial. A juror says it came up, and if that's the case, that's the jury's problem, and a severe one: as in, if they'd decided to convict him, he might have been able to argue for a mistrial on those grounds. As it stands, the point is moot.
 
2013-09-09 07:43:57 PM

gimmegimme: Ugh.  I listened to the 911 call.  That was clearly George's voice.

I just don't get it.  Domestic violence problems...Charged with assault of a police officer...tried for murder of an unarmed 17-year-old kid...more domestic violence problems...

WHEN WILL PEOPLE LEAVE ZIMMERMAN ALONE?  WHY ARE PEOPLE TRYING TO MAKE HIM SEEM LIKE A VIOLENT THUG?


I've believed all along (even before and during the trial) that Zimmerman's life was going to be irretrievably farked up no matter how the trial turned out. The events of that night will follow him for the rest of his life; he will never, ever be able to escape them. He will always be that guy.

I think he will continue to spiral out of control, and eventually he'll blow his brains out--sooner rather than later. I'd put the over/under at about a year.
 
2013-09-09 07:45:02 PM

catmandu: George's true nature is showing...some people will have a hard time with that after they blindly supported him. the gun threat, the aggressive behavior puts the death of a 17 yr old in a new light now doesn't it.


No. Even if this were true I'd still not want him convicted of murder without evidence. Id hope all Americans would demand that.
 
2013-09-09 07:45:03 PM

JDAT: SHE DROPPED THE CHARGES.

FYI


This, I think was stupid. She should have pressed.
 
2013-09-09 07:46:18 PM

Fubini: Even if you think I'm wrong about the jury instructions, and you're welcome to believe that I'm wrong, you cannot deny that the Stand Your Ground provisions are moot once you've accepted that Zimmerman was on the ground and unable to escape. The presence of the law (or lack thereof) would not have changed the outcome of the trial. Ergo, Stand Your Ground had no bearing on the trial.


The number of people still making SYG disparaging comments in the face of this I find sad.

Common Law Self Defense - You are reasonably* unable to retreat in safety, you defend yourself.
Castle Doctrine - You are not expected to retreat from your home, and intruders are automatically considered a threat, without additional requirement.  In 'many' areas already a part of CLSD.
Stand Your Ground - Castle doctrine extended to anywhere you're legally allowed to be.

I remember a thread some time ago where a poster seriously suggested that a woman who'd given birth 3 days earlier should have been able to climb out a 2nd story window, carrying her baby & 2 year old, cross the back yard and climb an 8' fence, rather than blow away the intruder when he attempted to bust through the bedroom door she'd barricaded, while yelling for him take what he wanted but to stay out.

Like her, Zimmerman made his claim under the most stringent level of self defense - not depending on Castle or SYG.

*IE you don't use 20/20 hindsight, knowledge not known by the involved at the time of the incident, and hours of deliberation to find some alternative that possibly involves split-second timing to retreat 'safely'.
 
2013-09-09 07:46:26 PM

JDAT: SHE DROPPED THE CHARGES.

FYI


LOL, no. She said she didn't want to press charges. A clear sign that she's lying and knows that another perjury charge will lang her in jail.
 
2013-09-09 07:47:23 PM

catmandu: George's true nature is showing...


What's this "is showing"? George Zimmerman is a big fat poopyhead, and everyone on both sides has known this since the beginning.

some people will have a hard time with that after they blindly supported him.

Not really. Being a big fat poopyhead is not a crime, and sometimes even big fat poopyheads need to defend themselves.

the gun threat, the aggressive behavior puts the death of a 17 yr old in a new light now doesn't it.

Not at all. Why would it?
 
2013-09-09 07:49:26 PM

freak7: JDAT: SHE DROPPED THE CHARGES.

FYI

LOL, no. She said she didn't want to press charges. A clear sign that she's lying and knows that another perjury charge will lang her in jail.


What did the victim say after Zimmerman's 2005 domestic violence incident?
 
2013-09-09 07:51:20 PM

catmandu: George's true nature is showing...some people will have a hard time with that after they blindly supported him. the gun threat, the aggressive behavior puts the death of a 17 yr old in a new light now doesn't it.


Just out of curiosity, do you think that anyone who thought the acquittal was the correct verdict was "blindly supporting" Zimmerman?

Or do you think it's possible that a reasonable person could look at the facts of the case and conclude that, under the law, Zimmerman committed no crime and was properly found not guilty?
 
2013-09-09 07:53:37 PM

I_C_Weener: No. Even if this were true I'd still not want him convicted of murder without evidence. Id hope all Americans would demand that.


Burden of proof....a guy stalks shoots and unarmed kid and it's on the state to prove that he wasn't justified. Well shiat, we need to revisit every murder case we've ever tried.
 
2013-09-09 07:54:24 PM

I_C_Weener: catmandu: George's true nature is showing...some people will have a hard time with that after they blindly supported him. the gun threat, the aggressive behavior puts the death of a 17 yr old in a new light now doesn't it.

No. Even if this were true I'd still not want him convicted of murder without evidence. Id hope all Americans would demand that.


I actually think this country could use some more political show trials.
 
2013-09-09 07:54:27 PM

gimmegimme: What did the victim say after Zimmerman's 2005 domestic violence incident?


He didn't have a domestic violence incident, he had a fiance that filed a restraining order, alleging domestic violence. George also filed his own restraining order, both were granted.
 
2013-09-09 07:59:06 PM

100 Watt Walrus: Duke_leto_Atredes: wife divorce shnenanigans

she is a confessed purjurer, her word carrys no weight with the court.

lock his in-laws up for false police reports and violate her probation.

And there it is. No need to wait for facts or details. There's simply no way this could possibly be true.


This is FARK who needs facts?
:-{)
 
2013-09-09 08:01:30 PM

Mugato: I_C_Weener: No. Even if this were true I'd still not want him convicted of murder without evidence. Id hope all Americans would demand that.

Burden of proof....a guy stalks shoots and unarmed kid and it's on the state to prove that he wasn't justified. Well shiat, we need to revisit every murder case we've ever tried.


So... the fact that Trayvon Martin was committing felony aggravated assault and felony battery (as defined in Florida statutes 784.021 and 784.03) at the time he was shot means nothing?

There was plenty of stupidity on both sides that night, and either one of them could have made some different decisions and we'd never have heard of them; but those were the only ACTUAL crimes (as defined in Florida law) that were committed that night.
 
2013-09-09 08:02:01 PM
www.lotustalk.com
Breaking News: George Zimmerman is a violent psychopath and a scuzzbucket of a human being.   We'll have more for your at 11:00
 
2013-09-09 08:02:10 PM
Wonder if her dropping the charges, after talking to her lawyer, had anything to do with the $4k a month she's getting from his defense fund. If that fund is used up, no more $4k a month.
 
2013-09-09 08:02:28 PM

trappedspirit: Newsflash!  No crime and no arrest.  Less at 10.
/journalgasm


100 Watt Walrus: Duke_leto_Atredes: wife divorce shnenanigans

she is a confessed purjurer, her word carrys no weight with the court.

lock his in-laws up for false police reports and violate her probation.

And there it is. No need to wait for facts or details. There's simply no way this could possibly be true.


Facts
1 She has filed for Divorce
2 She has asked for his current and future money
3 shae has been convicted of perjury
4 she is on probation
5 the police let him go, this right here is the most telling of all the facts.
 
2013-09-09 08:03:40 PM

freak7: gimmegimme: What did the victim say after Zimmerman's 2005 domestic violence incident?

He didn't have a domestic violence incident, he had a fiance that filed a restraining order, alleging domestic violence. George also filed his own restraining order, both were granted.


Which word in my sentence do you take issue with?
Zimmerman?
2005?
domestic?
violence?
or
incident?

All of them apply.
 
2013-09-09 08:04:18 PM
What does GZ gain from a libel suit from her if she falsified the report?
 
2013-09-09 08:07:38 PM

gimmegimme: Which word in my sentence do you take issue with?


You implied that he committed domestic violence in 2005. Please provide proof of this.
 
2013-09-09 08:08:29 PM

Duke_leto_Atredes: trappedspirit: Newsflash!  No crime and no arrest.  Less at 10.
/journalgasm

100 Watt Walrus: Duke_leto_Atredes: wife divorce shnenanigans

she is a confessed purjurer, her word carrys no weight with the court.

lock his in-laws up for false police reports and violate her probation.

And there it is. No need to wait for facts or details. There's simply no way this could possibly be true.

Facts
1 She has filed for Divorce
2 She has asked for his current and future money
3 shae has been convicted of perjury
4 she is on probation
5 the police let him go, this right here is the most telling of all the facts.


Do you dispute that Zimmerman has a long history of involvement in violent incidents?
 
2013-09-09 08:11:55 PM

Cybernetic: So... the fact that Trayvon Martin was committing felony aggravated assault and felony battery (as defined in Florida statutes 784.021 and 784.03) at the time he was shot means nothing?


Look at the video. Yeah, he looks really farked up.

media.npr.org
 
2013-09-09 08:12:16 PM

freak7: gimmegimme: Which word in my sentence do you take issue with?

You implied that he committed domestic violence in 2005. Please provide proof of this.


You really need to catch up on things, friend.
 
2013-09-09 08:13:04 PM

gimmegimme: Duke_leto_Atredes: trappedspirit: Newsflash!  No crime and no arrest.  Less at 10.
/journalgasm

100 Watt Walrus: Duke_leto_Atredes: wife divorce shnenanigans

she is a confessed purjurer, her word carrys no weight with the court.

lock his in-laws up for false police reports and violate her probation.

And there it is. No need to wait for facts or details. There's simply no way this could possibly be true.

Facts
1 She has filed for Divorce
2 She has asked for his current and future money
3 shae has been convicted of perjury
4 she is on probation
5 the police let him go, this right here is the most telling of all the facts.

Do you dispute that Zimmerman has a long history of involvement in violent incidents?


What does that matter? Is that now indisputable evidence that her claims against him are valid and there not need be any sort of investigation into the matter, what she says goes because he may have a history of violent incidents? I have exceeded the speed limit on multiple occasions, does this mean that if someone says I was speeding, I was speeding based solely on the fact that I sped in the past?
 
2013-09-09 08:15:11 PM

gimmegimme: freak7: gimmegimme: What did the victim say after Zimmerman's 2005 domestic violence incident?

He didn't have a domestic violence incident, he had a fiance that filed a restraining order, alleging domestic violence. George also filed his own restraining order, both were granted.

Which word in my sentence do you take issue with?
Zimmerman?
2005?
domestic?
violence?
or
incident?

All of them apply.


In Florida, anyone can go to a courthouse and file an affidavit for a restraining order, and allege all kinds of violent or threatening behavior by the other party. Judges will issue the restraining order immediately, with a hearing (called a "return hearing") scheduled for approximately two weeks later. This happens even if the allegations in the affidavit are complete and utter bullshiat. No determination is made as to whether the allegations have any basis in fact until the return hearing. This system is easily and frequently abused.

So, the fact that a restraining order was obtained against someone should not be taken as prima facie evidence that the person actually did anything wrong. If a hearing was held, and the restraining order was extended, then it would be easier to believe that something bad actually happened. If the restraining order was dismissed after the initial two-week period, then there's a significant chance that the allegations in the affidavit were bullshiat.
 
2013-09-09 08:16:21 PM
So he doesn't wear the pants in his relationship? No wonder he was all triggerhappy.

\though, as I understand it from friends, that's kind of a given in any relationship with a Hispanic woman
 
2013-09-09 08:18:42 PM

Mugato: Cybernetic: So... the fact that Trayvon Martin was committing felony aggravated assault and felony battery (as defined in Florida statutes 784.021 and 784.03) at the time he was shot means nothing?

Look at the video. Yeah, he looks really farked up.

[media.npr.org image 850x780]


I could counter your post with all of the photos showing Zimmerman with a bloody nose, and showing the cuts to the back of Zimmerman's head that happened when Martin slammed it into the pavement. But I won't, because it won't make any difference. You're so attached to your narrative that facts and evidence mean nothing to you.
 
2013-09-09 08:19:41 PM

Fubini: There is no reasonable way to retreat from someone straddling you on the ground.


It's a shame there was no reasonable way for him to retreat before he was (allegedly) straddled on the ground.
 
2013-09-09 08:21:02 PM

Cybernetic: The events of that night will follow him for the rest of his life


It's like raaaaaaaaiiiiiiin.....
 
2013-09-09 08:21:17 PM

gimmegimme: You really need to catch up on things, friend.


You really need to read the sources you cite.

In August 2005, Zimmerman's ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.

Was he ever charged with or convicted of domestic violence?
 
2013-09-09 08:23:20 PM

Cybernetic: I could counter your post with all of the photos showing Zimmerman with a bloody nose, and showing the cuts to the back of Zimmerman's head that happened when Martin slammed it into the pavement.


Which apparently happened after he was taken into custody. Like a postmortem time travel thing.
 
2013-09-09 08:23:48 PM

ahab: that bosnian sniper: Trespassing on another's property and threatening them with a gun, huh? Sounds like time for a good old fashion Standin' yer Ground. I certainly wouldn't have shed a tear if they shot that fat bastard right in his face, and filed SYG immunity.

Except the part where his wife has dropped her claim that a gun was involved at all, officers found no gun, and officers found no evidence of any assault.


Can we beat all three of them anyways,?
 
2013-09-09 08:23:58 PM

Cybernetic: gimmegimme: freak7: gimmegimme: What did the victim say after Zimmerman's 2005 domestic violence incident?

He didn't have a domestic violence incident, he had a fiance that filed a restraining order, alleging domestic violence. George also filed his own restraining order, both were granted.

Which word in my sentence do you take issue with?
Zimmerman?
2005?
domestic?
violence?
or
incident?

All of them apply.

In Florida, anyone can go to a courthouse and file an affidavit for a restraining order, and allege all kinds of violent or threatening behavior by the other party. Judges will issue the restraining order immediately, with a hearing (called a "return hearing") scheduled for approximately two weeks later. This happens even if the allegations in the affidavit are complete and utter bullshiat. No determination is made as to whether the allegations have any basis in fact until the return hearing. This system is easily and frequently abused.

So, the fact that a restraining order was obtained against someone should not be taken as prima facie evidence that the person actually did anything wrong. If a hearing was held, and the restraining order was extended, then it would be easier to believe that something bad actually happened. If the restraining order was dismissed after the initial two-week period, then there's a significant chance that the allegations in the affidavit were bullshiat.


Sorry if you've already explained, but can you whisk away:

Zimmerman's assault on a police officer.

Zimmerman initially hiding his money from the court?

I'm just having trouble understanding why some of the same folks who portrayed Martin as a thug POS are so willing to dismiss Zimmerman's documented history of violence.
 
2013-09-09 08:26:08 PM

freak7: gimmegimme: You really need to catch up on things, friend.

You really need to read the sources you cite.

In August 2005, Zimmerman's ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.

Was he ever charged with or convicted of domestic violence?


Why in the world does Zimmerman keep getting involved in all of these legal troubles?  You surely give the same benefit of the doubt to the unarmed 17-year-old he shot.
 
2013-09-09 08:27:02 PM

birdmanesq: Bob Falfa: ABC News: He was fighting with his now estranged wife and father-in-law.

Oh, it's domestic. That means that Florida will care much less than if it was a black person.


Not only that, if she fires a warning shot she'll go to jail.
 
2013-09-09 08:27:22 PM
This guy is a piece of trash that the guns rights people should have never hitched their wagons to. Martin was not a righteous kill to begin with, but on top of that this dude is now the face of gun rights and he's a psychopath who will likely end up at the center of a murder-suicide in short order. Absolute garbage.
 
2013-09-09 08:32:09 PM
I trust the media is only listing the facts and is trying to avoid sensationalism.
I imagine Nancy Grace has had 50 orgasms already
 
2013-09-09 08:32:40 PM

gimmegimme: freak7: gimmegimme: You really need to catch up on things, friend.

You really need to read the sources you cite.

In August 2005, Zimmerman's ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.

Was he ever charged with or convicted of domestic violence?

Why in the world does Zimmerman keep getting involved in all of these legal troubles?  You surely give the same benefit of the doubt to the unarmed 17-year-old he shot.


Keep getting involved in legal troubles? Since the trial he was pulled over for speeding twice. This incident, appears to be almost a complete lie and fabrication of his soon to be ex wife. Previously, the things you are referring to is the time he shoved an officer who was apparently harassing an underage drinker and the restraining order that was filed against him. Not saying the guy is a saint, but you are embellishing here. If you only look at the negative in people's lives without ever bringing up the positive, you could paint any one of your average farkers out to be complete dirtbags. Quit trying to further your cause of blindly judging a man of crimes he did not commit based on the image you have created in your head and based on his character. There are things called facts that you are willfully ignoring and choosing to only argue from one side.
 
2013-09-09 08:35:11 PM

gimmegimme: I just don't get it.


This much is true hoo haaaah haaaah.
 
2013-09-09 08:35:45 PM

gimmegimme: Zimmerman's assault on a police officer.


You really think they would reduce and expunge charges for assaulting a police officer if it was a valid case? Yeah, no.

gimmegimme: Zimmerman initially hiding his money from the court?


If you were unable to leave your house, let alone make a living, you might just want to hold onto the money you had too. While a dumb thing to do, I totally get why he did it.

gimmegimme: You surely give the same benefit of the doubt to the unarmed 17-year-old he shot.


The 17 year old who had arrived at home and then decided to return to the scene, confront and violently attack somebody? What benefit of the doubt does he deserve?
 
2013-09-09 08:38:52 PM

the money is in the banana stand: gimmegimme: freak7: gimmegimme: You really need to catch up on things, friend.

You really need to read the sources you cite.

In August 2005, Zimmerman's ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.

Was he ever charged with or convicted of domestic violence?

Why in the world does Zimmerman keep getting involved in all of these legal troubles?  You surely give the same benefit of the doubt to the unarmed 17-year-old he shot.

Keep getting involved in legal troubles? Since the trial he was pulled over for speeding twice. This incident, appears to be almost a complete lie and fabrication of his soon to be ex wife. Previously, the things you are referring to is the time he shoved an officer who was apparently harassing an underage drinker and the restraining order that was filed against him. Not saying the guy is a saint, but you are embellishing here. If you only look at the negative in people's lives without ever bringing up the positive, you could paint any one of your average farkers out to be complete dirtbags. Quit trying to further your cause of blindly judging a man of crimes he did not commit based on the image you have created in your head and based on his character. There are things called facts that you are willfully ignoring and choosing to only argue from one side.


?  Zimmerman has been in trouble with the legal system his entire adult life.  We're not talking speeding.  We're talking domestic violence, assault of a police officer and a murder charge.  How many acts of violence must he be involved with before you see there's some fire under the smoke?

The crazy people need to find a new champion; Zimmerman is just going to keep doing what he's always done and it shouldn't be a surprise if his kill count increases.
 
2013-09-09 08:40:03 PM

gimmegimme: I'm just having trouble understanding.


It's because you are trying so hard not to.
 
2013-09-09 08:40:19 PM

jimmiejaz: The estranged wife of George Zimmerman opted not to press charges against her husband Monday after police in Florida responded to her sobbing 911 call reporting he had punched her father and was threatening them with a gun.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/09/george-zimmerma n- gun-incident-florida-trayvon-martin/2788443/


"Deputy Police Chief Colin Morgan said officers did not recover a gun, and Bracknell said Shellie Zimmerman later dropped her claim that a gun was involved."

Aaaaaahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....

All these gun incidents, this man is showing such an obvious pattern of using his penis substitute to threaten innocent people with...
 
2013-09-09 08:42:13 PM

FloydA: Tom_Slick: That shaking you just felt was Nancy Grace having the biggest orgasm of her life.


[i105.photobucket.com image 520x390]

Oh great.  Now I hate everything.


Flash flood warnings are out for Gwinette and Jones countys
 
2013-09-09 08:42:41 PM
Oh, wait, Martin arrived at home and then decided to "return to the scene" to confront and violently attack Zimmerman?
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-09-09 08:42:43 PM

Elegy: jimmiejaz: The estranged wife of George Zimmerman opted not to press charges against her husband Monday after police in Florida responded to her sobbing 911 call reporting he had punched her father and was threatening them with a gun.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/09/george-zimmerma n- gun-incident-florida-trayvon-martin/2788443/

"Deputy Police Chief Colin Morgan said officers did not recover a gun, and Bracknell said Shellie Zimmerman later dropped her claim that a gun was involved."

Aaaaaahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....

All these gun incidents, this man is showing such an obvious pattern of using his penis substitute to threaten innocent people with...


Marley's law infraction!!
images.wikia.com
 
2013-09-09 08:42:47 PM

gimmegimme: How many acts of violence must he be involved with before you see there's some fire under the smoke?


Does the same apply to Trayvon?
 
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