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(Townhall)   While fighting for your right to freedom of religion, the Air Force is suppressing it for their members   (townhall.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, air forces, freedom of religions, Lackland Air Force Base, base commander, Liberty Institute, Mirandize, fighting  
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2824 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Sep 2013 at 4:47 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-09-09 02:11:55 PM  
7 votes:
It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole
2013-09-09 03:38:07 PM  
6 votes:
So basically, this dick freckle was harassing his fellow airmen and when told to knock it off he whined about how his rights to be an asshole for his god were being repressed?

This is why people don't like Christians.
2013-09-09 02:45:15 PM  
6 votes:

mitchcumstein1: cameroncrazy1984: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

I'm sorry, I'm not seeing a difference.

Well, then you're an asshole too. The vast majority of people who are religious aren't assholes, and you know it.


Not from personal experience, I'll tell you that. My entire family is religious and they're all asshole Republicans.
2013-09-09 02:16:23 PM  
5 votes:

mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole


I'm sorry, I'm not seeing a difference.
2013-09-09 04:26:45 PM  
4 votes:
amer-lit-puritan-textbook.wikispaces.com
2013-09-09 09:47:09 PM  
3 votes:

super_grass: freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.

Aren't they a protected group now? Homosexuals are more equal than your average American these days.


You are aware that protections against "age, sex, religion, race and sexual orientation" go BOTH ways, right?  That if you are discriminated against for being straight (for example, you are not hired by a salon because you are straight and the owner prefers that guys who work there be gay guys), you have just as much standing as someone who is discriminated against for being gay?  It works the same way for the other categories, too.  If someone fires you for being too old, your case is just as solid as someone who couldn't get a job for being too young.  If you aren't hired because you're male, you have as much a case as if you were not hired for being female.  Black or white, too.  Atheist or hardcore fundie, Muslim or Jew, if you're discriminated on that basis, you have standing.

So, yeah.  The "more equal" thing is bullshiat.  And now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
www.millionaireplayboy.com
2013-09-09 09:12:04 PM  
3 votes:

freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.


Yes, they have that right.  But if they choose to exercise that bigotry in public, and in an official capacity, while working for an organization with a stated order to not harass people because of their sexual orientation ... well, then they should expect to have some problems at the office.
2013-09-09 04:59:55 PM  
3 votes:
Religion does not give you an alibi.
If you do not have the courage to accept gay marriage you have rejected the principles of Christianity.
Worse, you might be a fundamentalist.
The U.S. military is no place for you in either case.
2013-09-09 03:56:42 PM  
3 votes:
1993: Gay service members told to 'keep it to themselves'...

2013: Bigots upset they are being told to 'keep it to themselves'...
2013-09-09 03:19:23 PM  
3 votes:
No, your freedom of religion isn't being infringed here asspony.  Being Christian does not mean that you have to disagree with homosexuality, and it certainly doesn't mean that you have to vocalize or publicize any disapproval you may have.

Saying that you disagree with homosexuality or homosexuals serving is just as bigoted as saying you disagree with the existence of black people or them serving.
2013-09-09 02:38:36 PM  
3 votes:
Fortunately, Liberty Counsel is on the job.....

mitchcumstein1: Well, then you're an asshole too. The vast majority of people who are religious aren't assholes, and you know it.


Unless your threshold for being an asshole is low enough to also consider most people to be assholes. If instead of using binary is/isn't terms, you consider asshole-nature via relative measure (like the difference between "hot/cold" versus temperature), the more asshole sorts are about equally distributed among the religious and irreligious.

It's the tendency to protofascism that correlates to religiosity, but not all protofascists are inherently assholes themselves; some are merely "following orders" types.
2013-09-09 02:23:28 PM  
3 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

I'm sorry, I'm not seeing a difference.


Well, then you're an asshole too. The vast majority of people who are religious aren't assholes, and you know it.
2013-09-09 02:19:05 PM  
3 votes:
Yeah the reports of Airmen being forced to attend "nondenominational" but obviously fundie protestant church services or face a verbal reprimand from Commanding officer is just bullshiat http://www.truth-out.org/archive/item/91383:troops-punished-after-ref u sing-to-attend-evangelical-concert
2013-09-09 02:17:27 PM  
3 votes:
Officials at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio said that Monk and his commander had simply "agreed to disagree," adding "the wing commander said there was no punishment" for Monk's comments. Base officials stated that Monk was relieved of his duties because he was at the end of his assignment - not because of his views on LGBT issues.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/09/06/foxs-todd-starnes-christians- a re-trading-places/195753
2013-09-09 02:15:05 PM  
3 votes:
Members of the armed forces are the property of the US government.  When told to jump, they need to ask how high.
2013-09-10 12:01:56 AM  
2 votes:

jjorsett: TuteTibiImperes: No, your freedom of religion isn't being infringed here asspony.  Being Christian does not mean that you have to disagree with homosexuality, and it certainly doesn't mean that you have to vocalize or publicize any disapproval you may have.

Saying that you disagree with homosexuality or homosexuals serving is just as bigoted as saying you disagree with the existence of black people or them serving.

Freedom of speech and religion for you stops at the point where somebody says something you find offensive. What I find very interesting about people on the left is how intolerant they get while biatching about how intolerant everyone else is.


You know, I have a friend who keeps Kosher. Personally, I find those rules to be pointless and arbitrary, but I figure it's her own business. That's Freedom of Religion.

Now, if I came across a guy who not only kept Kosher but insisted America's Moral Health relied on everyone else keeping Kosher as well, and started political campaigns on keeping pork out of all school lunches or banning cheeseburger ads from television shows that innocent children might see and making sure Federal tax dollars didn't ever go to support shellfish, that would tell me two things:
1> Some assholes don't understand what Freedom of Religion means, and
2> That guy really really desperately craves bacon.
2013-09-09 08:37:00 PM  
2 votes:

freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.


Sure they do, but it doesn't give them freedom from consequence.

It's no different than thinking people of a different ethnic background are lesser human beings. You can think it, but it doesn't mean you get to say it and act on it without dealing with the repercussions of those thoughts and actions.
2013-09-09 08:14:14 PM  
2 votes:

NuttierThanEver: Yeah the reports of Airmen being forced to attend "nondenominational" but obviously fundie protestant church services or face a verbal reprimand from Commanding officer is just bullshiat http://www.truth-out.org/archive/item/91383:troops-punished-after-ref u sing-to-attend-evangelical-concert


A lot of people don't understand what "nondenominational" means and think it is something like "all-denominational" - vague enough to be acceptable to all Christian denominations including Catholics and Mormons and maybe even outsiders like Jews or Muslims.

"nondenominational" means not affiliated with any denomination. Most mega churches are "nondenominational" which means they can make up whatever crazy theology they want without it being the accepted teachings of any denomination, and more importantly they get to keep all of their money and don't have to contribute to a parent organization.

Avoid "nondenominational" because they are often crazy and out to take your money.
2013-09-09 05:10:04 PM  
2 votes:
I exchanged gay or homosexual with black, interracial or Negro and Christian/religious with white and re-read the article. Looked like something out of the early 1960s.
2013-09-09 05:01:42 PM  
2 votes:
rightwing christians: Assholes

leftwing christians: nice enough

Atheists: how about you religious people quit worshiping imaginary things and lets explore the universe by leaving this shiathole that is full of religious nuts who keep blowing things up for profit and control over humanity
2013-09-09 04:56:13 PM  
2 votes:
Reading the headline and seeing it's a Townhall link I am going to guess: Some asshole in the military is feeling "repressed" because he can't be intolerant to someone who has different views then him.
2013-09-09 04:52:12 PM  
2 votes:
A 19-year Air Force veteran who was relieved of his duties because he disagreed with his openly gay commander over gay marriage is now facing a formal investigation after he told me his story.

[welltheresyourproblem.jpg]

If you're stupid enough to get into a religious discussion about how you think your commander's life choices are fundamentally immoral, you might not be Air Force material.
2013-09-09 04:17:01 PM  
2 votes:
So Christians dont have problems when the Air Force orders them to drop bombs on people, but they DO have problems when the Air Force orders them to accept gay marriage?
2013-09-09 03:01:57 PM  
2 votes:
I'm so glad I left the military (Army, not Air Farce) before the Evangelicals took over. Getting promoted is political enough as it is. Throw religion on top of that, and you're spending waay too much time kissing ass and not enough doing your actual job.
2013-09-10 09:34:20 AM  
1 vote:

cman: Karac: freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.

Yes, they have that right.  But if they choose to exercise that bigotry in public, and in an official capacity, while working for an organization with a stated order to not harass people because of their sexual orientation ... well, then they should expect to have some problems at the office.

Then there is the other problem: POLITICS HAVE NO PLACE IN THE MILITARY

You should not ask and you should not tell.


"Sergeant: harassment on the basis of homosexuality is no longer allowed in the US military.  If you are ordered to investigate such harassment, can you follow that order, or will your religious beliefs prevent you from fulfilling your sworn duties?"

You know what - that sounds to me like an excellent question that should be asked.

And as for telling: heterosexuals have 'told' their sexual orientation for the entirety of the existence of the military.  They 'told' it every time they brought a date down to the e-club, or took their girlfriend to an official function, or put a picture of their wife on their desk.  Why shouldn't homosexuals be allowed to do the same?
2013-09-10 12:39:41 AM  
1 vote:

spongeboob: What the Fark does this paragraph mean
Last week, Monk was supposed to meet with an Air Force investigator tasked with gathering facts about the complaint. But when he arrived, Monk was immediately read his Miranda Rights and accused of providing false statements in a coonversation Monk had with me.

Who is me, is me referring to the author of the article?
Now back to try and read the rest of the article why do I think I am going to have more questions?


Yes, the "me" in question is the author of the article.  The airman had lied about this situation to the author for a previous article the author wrote; this article is about how unfair it is that the airman is facing diciplinary action for lying to the press about Air Force policy and procedure, and how that means christians are being persecuted by the Air Force the way that gays were / are persecuted by "Christians" and they really don't like being treated like that.

/treat others something something like to be treated.
2013-09-09 11:51:42 PM  
1 vote:

jjorsett: TuteTibiImperes: No, your freedom of religion isn't being infringed here asspony.  Being Christian does not mean that you have to disagree with homosexuality, and it certainly doesn't mean that you have to vocalize or publicize any disapproval you may have.

Saying that you disagree with homosexuality or homosexuals serving is just as bigoted as saying you disagree with the existence of black people or them serving.

Freedom of speech and religion for you stops at the point where somebody says something you find offensive. What I find very interesting about people on the left is how intolerant they get while biatching about how intolerant everyone else is.


It also stops when you're in the military and directing your bigotry at your CO. They kinda frown on that.
2013-09-09 10:25:01 PM  
1 vote:
"We've been told that if you publicly say that homosexuality is wrong, you are in violation of Air Force policy."

As a retired 20 year veteran of the Air Force I see no problem with that policy. You are perfectly free to believe that homosexuality is wrong for you, in your own life. Nobody is denying you the freedom to practice your religion in your own life as you see fit. But when you begin subjecting other people to your beliefs, telling them they are immoral because they don't believe as you do, you are in the wrong.
2013-09-09 09:26:18 PM  
1 vote:
A little off... argument here, but...

Why did they choose to go with a Swedish Air Force insignia bearing Saab Gripen as their photo to illustrate a jet fighter, rather than an aircraft the USAF currently use?
2013-09-09 08:35:13 PM  
1 vote:

super_grass: freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.

Aren't they a protected group now? Homosexuals are more equal than your average American these days.


Fifty years ago, you idiots would be the same people whining about miscegenation.  I wonder, in another fifty years, when you anti-gay bigots are marginalized with the racists, what group will your kind be hating?
2013-09-09 07:48:06 PM  
1 vote:
No, they're not.
2013-09-09 07:04:09 PM  
1 vote:
Wow how many idiotic things can I find in this article

Another airman has been brought up on charges eight times.


I doubt that someone who is brought up on charges for the same offense eight times has the required intelligence to be in the modern military.
2013-09-09 06:46:53 PM  
1 vote:

Bloody William: A 19-year Air Force veteran who was relieved of his duties because he disagreed with his openly gay commander over gay marriage is now facing a formal investigation after he told me his story.

[welltheresyourproblem.jpg]

If you're stupid enough to get into a religious discussion about how you think your commander's life choices are fundamentally immoral, you might not be Air Force material.


Yeeeeep. You're in the military, dumbass. If your CO says something, maybe you shouldn't respond with 'well, okay, but I think you're going to burn in Hell for it'. You will come off as insubordinate and mind-bogglingly stupid.
2013-09-09 06:24:51 PM  
1 vote:

Ed Grubermann: Bawdy George: Weaver95: FlashHarry: wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?

I believe so, yes. I'm actually more than a bit concerned at how some of the evangelical death cults have tried to convert members of the US military.
Not Air Force, but this West Point shiatstain now runs the so-called Family Research Council

That guy sounds like a certifiable lunatic.


I knew it was Crazy Jerry Boykin before I even clicked.  It doesn't even mention the part where he claims he saw demons attacking Army Rangers in Somalia.
2013-09-09 06:18:05 PM  
1 vote:

FlashHarry: wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?


The USAFA is in Colorado Springs.  Focus on the Family opened an "outreach center" in Colorado Springs about 15 years ago or so.  They aggressively stalked and proselytized cadets while the academy cadre either turned a blind eye, or openly cooperated with FotF.

The first crop of seniors have been hitting squadron commander billets in the past few years, which is why this shiat has gotten ridiculous lately.
2013-09-09 06:00:41 PM  
1 vote:
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
2013-09-09 05:28:11 PM  
1 vote:
LOL at the stock photo of a Swedish fighter jet that Townhall includes in a piece about the USAF.
2013-09-09 05:19:43 PM  
1 vote:
I was going to read the article, but as soon as I clicked it there was an advertisement over the page about a book that has "Obama is going to take your gun" in the title.
2013-09-09 05:19:27 PM  
1 vote:

Weaver95: Except that a member off the armed forces doesn't have Miranda rights...least ways i never heard of it applying under the UCMJ. I could be wrong about that but...hmm. Interesting.


They do actually. I've had to read them to a guy that I was taking into custody for a UA charge. They also have protections regarding their personal effects and searches. In that same case while we were still looking for the guy I was not allowed to look in his locker to see if he had left anything in there. This was in 1989.

In the end it turned out to be a combination of him being dumb and some missed messages. He got 2 weeks of restriction and a 1 month hit in pay over it but he turned out to be a pretty good sailor in the end. I was at his mast and stood up for him even though I was the one who originally charged him.
2013-09-09 05:12:08 PM  
1 vote:

Weaver95: what_now: So basically, this dick freckle was harassing his fellow airmen and when told to knock it off he whined about how his rights to be an asshole for his god were being repressed?

This is why people don't like Christians.

That's my read on it as well. He kept preaching to the point he was affecting unit cohesion and was told to knock it off. Well...religious beliefs are fine and all, bout if your CO says dial it back, you dial it back or else.


He has extreme troubles with homosexuality, but not with the "Thou shalt not kill" part?  God only gave us 10 rules to follow, and NONE of them actually deal with homosexuality.  It would appear "being a Christian' is just an excuse he uses to cover his behavior issues.
2013-09-09 05:10:49 PM  
1 vote:

cameroncrazy1984: mitchcumstein1: cameroncrazy1984: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

I'm sorry, I'm not seeing a difference.

Well, then you're an asshole too. The vast majority of people who are religious aren't assholes, and you know it.

Not from personal experience, I'll tell you that. My entire family is religious and they're all asshole Republicans.


Then you need to step outside of your bubble. It's not hard to find nice people who also believe in magic.
2013-09-09 05:10:33 PM  
1 vote:

Corvus: Reading the headline and seeing it's a Townhall link I am going to guess: Some asshole in the military is feeling "repressed" because he can't be intolerant to someone who has different views then him.


i1198.photobucket.com
2013-09-09 05:05:39 PM  
1 vote:

spcMike: Marcus Aurelius: Members of the armed forces are the property of the US government.  When told to jump, they need to ask how high.

Actually we tend to ask if we really need to jump


I believe it was Von Steuban who noted: "With Prussian soldiers, I tell them to dig, and they grab a shovel. With Americans I tell them to dig and they ask 'what is the hole for?'"

He is also where we get the expression "By the numbers" from. He didn't speak a word of English, so he prepared all of the maneuvers he wanted the troops to perform pictorially, and labeled each with a number. On the drill field he would call out the number.

You know the drill ;-)
2013-09-09 05:04:32 PM  
1 vote:
Oh sure. After having fundies in the Air Force Academy trying to force conversions on Jewish cadets, bulling atheists (and you can imagine what they did to the Muslim cadets), being told to "Hey! Stop acting like a bunch of Spanish Inquisition asshats!", they get all pouty and helphelpwerebeingoppressed.jpg
2013-09-09 05:04:23 PM  
1 vote:
I got a real kick out of "Church or additional duty" Sundays when I was in Basic training.
2013-09-09 05:01:37 PM  
1 vote:
When was the last time the military confronted an actual, plausible threat to Americans' freedoms?  WWII?

Subby, groups like the ACLU and Americans United for Separation of Church and State are fighting for my freedom of religion.  The military is generally engaging in adventures in the Middle East, and doing various other things around the globe, most of which have basically nothing to do with any actual threats to my freedoms.
2013-09-09 04:55:14 PM  
1 vote:

Marcus Aurelius: Members of the armed forces are the property of the US government.  When told to jump, they need to ask how high.


Actually we tend to ask if we really need to jump
2013-09-09 04:25:34 PM  
1 vote:
If SMSgt Monk tells some airmen who's gay that they're an abomination before God, it's within my freedom of religion to have a private counseling session with SMSgt Monk.

/God, I despise self-serving, disgruntled airmen.
2013-09-09 03:44:59 PM  
1 vote:

what_now: So basically, this dick freckle was harassing his fellow airmen and when told to knock it off he whined about how his rights to be an asshole for his god were being repressed?

This is why people don't like Christians.


That's my read on it as well. He kept preaching to the point he was affecting unit cohesion and was told to knock it off. Well...religious beliefs are fine and all, bout if your CO says dial it back, you dial it back or else.
2013-09-09 03:40:45 PM  
1 vote:
I have just as much sympathy for this jackoff as I would for some 1950's era Sergeant who held onto the religiously-infromed view that descendants of Ham shouldn't be allowed to serve in his unit.
2013-09-09 03:33:57 PM  
1 vote:

kronicfeld: Aggressively, militantly subservient.


Sounds familiar....

Authoritarian followers usually support the established authorities in their society, such as government officials and traditional religious leaders. Such people have historically been the "proper" authorities in life, the time-honored, entitled, customary leaders, and that means a lot to most authoritarians. Psychologically these followers have personalities featuring:
1) a high degree of submission to the established, legitimate authorities in their society;
2) high levels of aggression in the name of their authorities; and
3) a high level of conventionalism.
2013-09-09 03:33:21 PM  
1 vote:

Weaver95: FlashHarry: wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?

I believe so, yes. I'm actually more than a bit concerned at how some of the evangelical death cults have tried to convert members of the US military.


The fact that the Evangelicals' Vatican is in Colorado Springs and within a laden swallow's flight from the US Air Force Academy hasn't really helped the cadets much, particularly those cadets whose religious beliefs don't include eager anticipation of a war which renders the human race extinct.
2013-09-09 03:32:26 PM  
1 vote:
In the military, don't you only have as much freedom of religion as the military says you have?

Proselytize on your own time, God Squad. You're in uniform - you fight for your country, not your lord.
2013-09-09 03:21:38 PM  
1 vote:

FlashHarry: wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?


I believe so, yes. I'm actually more than a bit concerned at how some of the evangelical death cults have tried to convert members of the US military.
2013-09-09 02:47:51 PM  
1 vote:

kronicfeld: The Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concert that Smith and others were told to attend was headlined by BarlowGirl, a "band of tender-hearted, beautiful young women who aren't afraid to take an aggressive, almost warrior-like stance when it comes to spreading the gospel and serving God," according to the group's web site.

Aggressively, militantly subservient.

Power bottom.

The whole "army of God" thing has only waxed metaphorical in the last couple hundred years.
 
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