If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Townhall)   While fighting for your right to freedom of religion, the Air Force is suppressing it for their members   (townhall.com) divider line 158
    More: Asinine, air forces, freedom of religions, Lackland Air Force Base, base commander, Liberty Institute, Mirandize, fighting  
•       •       •

2811 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Sep 2013 at 4:47 PM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



158 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-09-09 06:57:06 PM

PsiChick: Yeeeeep. You're in the military, dumbass. If your CO says something, maybe you shouldn't respond with 'well, okay, but I think you're going to burn in Hell for it'. You will come off as insubordinate and mind-bogglingly stupid.


I was faced with that quandary once. A new CO that had never been on a boomer wanted me and my guys to do something that I knew for a fact was against his direct superiors policies (but it was common on fast attacks which is where he came from). I ended up telling him that we would do it if ordered to but that he might want to check with them first.

We ended up not doing it but he never really liked me after that. I told him what I did to cover my own ass because I knew that if we did what he wanted Squadron was going to chew out my ass for doing it so I wanted to be able to tell them that the CO ordered it against my recommendation.
 
2013-09-09 06:59:23 PM

FrancoFile: Yeah, some of the radical fundies have targeted the AF over the last 20 years.  Ironic considering that it's the service that depends most on science and high-tech.


Pilots seem to me to be more like engineers than scientist and I will just leave this here

And the Navy has Nuclear subs and Aircraft carriers they sure need to know their science.
 
2013-09-09 07:04:09 PM
Wow how many idiotic things can I find in this article

Another airman has been brought up on charges eight times.


I doubt that someone who is brought up on charges for the same offense eight times has the required intelligence to be in the modern military.
 
2013-09-09 07:04:23 PM
I for one think this is a very good idea, do you want the man who is flying with the nuked to be raptured?
  What happens if that plane crashes on Jesus?  I for one am not willing to take this kind of risk, at the very most they should be allowed to transport mail and laundry.
 
2013-09-09 07:08:12 PM
 Oh no that headline sounds like he's being punished for being a christian....and of course that's not even close. I wonder if subby thinks those discharged from the military after refusing to serve with black soldiers after military integration were also being persecuted? It seems that much of the christian "persecution" is just them not being able to persecute others.
 
2013-09-09 07:23:46 PM

Radioactive Ass: The Drawing Board: Are we talking about the same branch here? The Air Force I was in has a 14 year TIS requirement before making Chief and a 12 year E-7 is considere a fairly fast burner...

At the time (Navy by the way) the short path from E1 to E6 broke down as follows: 6 months (E1 to E2), 6 months (E2 to E3), 9 months (E3 to E4), 1 year (E4 to E5), 3 years (E5 to E6) and 4 years (E6 to E7). That's excluding any reenlistment bumps upwards. As long as you aren't in a closed rating it was fairly easy to go up as long as you know your shiat and don't get lower than ~3.8 evals. E7 was a bit harder to get due to how the selection process worked but it wasn't unheard of at all, much less rare, to have someone with 12 years in make chief as long as the billets were open. The surface navy was a different story though, mainly because there were so many people competing at the same time.

Submarines don't have a great retention rate simply because of the stress of the job so billets open fairly often. You don't see a whole lot of 30 year guys and all of them are long-time E9's at that point. I had an E8 LCPO that I worked with who hadn't even reached 20 years. He retired as an E8 because, as he put it, after then he was working for half price (meaning that he was already eligible for retirement pay at 50% of his salary so by retiring and working in the civilian sector he would be making more).


Ah, that clarifies...I forgot that an E-7 in the Navy is a Chief.  Yes, making E-7 in the AF after 12 years is rare but certainly not unheard of.  I only did four years and have been out since 2006 but a good buddy of mine is in his 12th year now and he just made E-7.  A Chief in the AF is an E-9.  14 years TIS is the minimum to make E-9 in the AF and I'd be willing to bet someone makes it that fast once a decade, if that.
 
2013-09-09 07:34:02 PM
I attended Navy before the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell.  The audience was mostly officers and the message they put out to those who feel that for religious purposes who feel they can't serve with gay service members was petty simple.  "We will accept your resignation and thank you for your service."
 
2013-09-09 07:34:05 PM

abb3w: kronicfeld: Aggressively, militantly subservient.

Sounds familiar....

Authoritarian followers usually support the established authorities in their society, such as government officials and traditional religious leaders. Such people have historically been the "proper" authorities in life, the time-honored, entitled, customary leaders, and that means a lot to most authoritarians. Psychologically these followers have personalities featuring:
1) a high degree of submission to the established, legitimate authorities in their society;
2) high levels of aggression in the name of their authorities; and
3) a high level of conventionalism.


Sehr awesome. +1
Newsletter, I want to subscribe.

Authoritarian followers are at least half the problem....
 
2013-09-09 07:45:29 PM

The Drawing Board: Ah, that clarifies...I forgot that an E-7 in the Navy is a Chief. Yes, making E-7 in the AF after 12 years is rare but certainly not unheard of. I only did four years and have been out since 2006 but a good buddy of mine is in his 12th year now and he just made E-7. A Chief in the AF is an E-9. 14 years TIS is the minimum to make E-9 in the AF and I'd be willing to bet someone makes it that fast once a decade, if that.


Yeah, E9 is pretty much limited to around 20 years in. There are no Master Chiefs that I knew of that did it in less time than that. Part of it has to do with that by the time someone makes Chief they are pretty much committed to doing the full 20 years so billets don't open up all that often, unlike in the lower ranks where 6 years or so is much more often than not when people get out. I ended up doing eight and a half years (extensions to qualify for sub pay while I was on shore duty is why the odd number, I had to commit to two years of sea duty after shore duty). I got out because I had a kid and didn't want to have her not have a father around for over half of her life if I had stayed in. I saw too many crying kids left on the pier (so to speak) and I didn't want that to happen to my kid. If not for that I probably would have done my 20, I didn't have any real issues with doing the job itself and enjoyed a lot of it. Of course there were also parts of it that sucked but that was just the price of doing business as far as I was concerned.
 
2013-09-09 07:48:06 PM
No, they're not.
 
2013-09-09 08:12:05 PM

FrancoFile: Yeah, some of the radical fundies have targeted the AF over the last 20 years.  Ironic considering that it's the service that depends most on science and high-tech.


It's also the service that controls our ICBM's.  Makes sense when your realize the fundies want Armageddon, doesn't it?  Scares the shiat out of me.
 
2013-09-09 08:14:14 PM

NuttierThanEver: Yeah the reports of Airmen being forced to attend "nondenominational" but obviously fundie protestant church services or face a verbal reprimand from Commanding officer is just bullshiat http://www.truth-out.org/archive/item/91383:troops-punished-after-ref u sing-to-attend-evangelical-concert


A lot of people don't understand what "nondenominational" means and think it is something like "all-denominational" - vague enough to be acceptable to all Christian denominations including Catholics and Mormons and maybe even outsiders like Jews or Muslims.

"nondenominational" means not affiliated with any denomination. Most mega churches are "nondenominational" which means they can make up whatever crazy theology they want without it being the accepted teachings of any denomination, and more importantly they get to keep all of their money and don't have to contribute to a parent organization.

Avoid "nondenominational" because they are often crazy and out to take your money.
 
2013-09-09 08:24:20 PM

mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole


People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.
 
2013-09-09 08:27:17 PM

freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.


Aren't they a protected group now? Homosexuals are more equal than your average American these days.
 
2013-09-09 08:31:11 PM

super_grass: Aren't they a protected group now? Homosexuals are more equal than your average American these days.


I didn't say people had a right to discriminate against them, but giving an opinion when asked for it isn't something you should be punished for.
 
2013-09-09 08:34:02 PM

freak7: super_grass: Aren't they a protected group now? Homosexuals are more equal than your average American these days.

I didn't say people had a right to discriminate against them, but giving an opinion when asked for it isn't something you should be punished for.


Actually it is. You're going to get shiatcanned from any jerb thanks to harassment laws and get banned from most establishments. So you still have a "right" to express these opinions, but there will be retribution designed to stop you from doing it.
 
2013-09-09 08:35:13 PM

super_grass: freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.

Aren't they a protected group now? Homosexuals are more equal than your average American these days.


Fifty years ago, you idiots would be the same people whining about miscegenation.  I wonder, in another fifty years, when you anti-gay bigots are marginalized with the racists, what group will your kind be hating?
 
2013-09-09 08:36:54 PM

LordJiro: super_grass: freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.

Aren't they a protected group now? Homosexuals are more equal than your average American these days.

Fifty years ago, you idiots would be the same people whining about miscegenation.  I wonder, in another fifty years, when you anti-gay bigots are marginalized with the racists, what group will your kind be hating?


Probably the trans-aminal otherkin headmate movement gaining steam on Tumblr. Now there's a textbook case of degeneracy worth fighting!
 
2013-09-09 08:37:00 PM

freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.


Sure they do, but it doesn't give them freedom from consequence.

It's no different than thinking people of a different ethnic background are lesser human beings. You can think it, but it doesn't mean you get to say it and act on it without dealing with the repercussions of those thoughts and actions.
 
2013-09-09 08:57:40 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Members of the armed forces are the property of the US government.  When told to jump, they need to ask how high.


And then they get dishonorably discharged for questioning orders.
 
2013-09-09 09:12:04 PM

freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.


Yes, they have that right.  But if they choose to exercise that bigotry in public, and in an official capacity, while working for an organization with a stated order to not harass people because of their sexual orientation ... well, then they should expect to have some problems at the office.
 
2013-09-09 09:13:26 PM

Karac: freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.

Yes, they have that right.  But if they choose to exercise that bigotry in public, and in an official capacity, while working for an organization with a stated order to not harass people because of their sexual orientation ... well, then they should expect to have some problems at the office.


Then there is the other problem: POLITICS HAVE NO PLACE IN THE MILITARY

You should not ask and you should not tell.
 
2013-09-09 09:17:29 PM

LordJiro: super_grass: freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.

Aren't they a protected group now? Homosexuals are more equal than your average American these days.

Fifty years ago, you idiots would be the same people whining about miscegenation.  I wonder, in another fifty years, when you anti-gay bigots are marginalized with the racists, what group will your kind be hating?


That's assuming society will always "move forward".  It's unlikely, but if we start to enter a new Dark Age*, I bet racism ( both individual & institutional ) will make a big comeback....

*economic collapse
 
2013-09-09 09:26:18 PM
A little off... argument here, but...

Why did they choose to go with a Swedish Air Force insignia bearing Saab Gripen as their photo to illustrate a jet fighter, rather than an aircraft the USAF currently use?
 
2013-09-09 09:29:38 PM

LordJiro: Fifty years ago, you idiots would be the same people whining about miscegenation. I wonder, in another fifty years, when you anti-gay bigots are marginalized with the racists, what group will your kind be hating?


The "jiggleless" - people who are not tubs of lard?
 
2013-09-09 09:39:42 PM

spongeboob: What the Fark does this paragraph mean
Last week, Monk was supposed to meet with an Air Force investigator tasked with gathering facts about the complaint. But when he arrived, Monk was immediately read his Miranda Rights and accused of providing false statements in a coonversation Monk had with me.

Who is me, is me referring to the author of the article?
Now back to try and read the rest of the article why do I think I am going to have more questions?


I believe so.  Going with that reading, it makes some sense.  If he (SMSgt) said the stuff he said (persecuted for being Christian) to author guy (writes for Townhall), then he just made (false) allegations to the press about the AF, whom he represents.  He essentially came out as the AF saying that the AF persecutes Christians.  He doesn't have the authority to do that (not to mention it's not true).

/How'd you make Senior being so stupid?
//All opinions expressed in this post are my own and may not be representative of any organization to which I belong.
 
2013-09-09 09:47:09 PM

super_grass: freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.

Aren't they a protected group now? Homosexuals are more equal than your average American these days.


You are aware that protections against "age, sex, religion, race and sexual orientation" go BOTH ways, right?  That if you are discriminated against for being straight (for example, you are not hired by a salon because you are straight and the owner prefers that guys who work there be gay guys), you have just as much standing as someone who is discriminated against for being gay?  It works the same way for the other categories, too.  If someone fires you for being too old, your case is just as solid as someone who couldn't get a job for being too young.  If you aren't hired because you're male, you have as much a case as if you were not hired for being female.  Black or white, too.  Atheist or hardcore fundie, Muslim or Jew, if you're discriminated on that basis, you have standing.

So, yeah.  The "more equal" thing is bullshiat.  And now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
www.millionaireplayboy.com
 
2013-09-09 09:55:35 PM

super_grass: Aren't they a protected group now? Homosexuals are more equal than your average American these days.


Yes some Americans are more equal than others.

Gays statistically have higher incomes, better taste, and live in better neighborhoods. If we can't go after rich people can't we at least go after gays?
 
2013-09-09 10:14:46 PM

HairBolus: super_grass: Aren't they a protected group now? Homosexuals are more equal than your average American these days.

Yes some Americans are more equal than others.

Gays statistically have higher incomes, better taste, and live in better neighborhoods. If we can't go after rich people can't we at least go after gays?


So they are the leeches who feed off the fruits of the laborer and use their ill gotten gains to shield themselves from the problems of the world?

Being rich is either bad or good, you can't pick both.
 
2013-09-09 10:17:29 PM
Accepting the article as complete truth, this is what they're telling us happened:

(Scene: Lackland AFB)

COMMANDER LESBIAN: This instructor says that homosexuals are committing a sin. I'm going to punish them! Mua-ha-ha-ha-ha!

SGT. MONK: ....

CL: Sergeant Monk, you're standing right here. I order you to tell me your true opinions on gay marriage.

MONK: I don't like it.

CL: You are violating the USAF's rule against saying homosexuality is bad. Relieved of position!

RIGHT-WING NEWS OUTLET: You look sad. What's wrong, Sgt. Monk?

MONK: The Air Force punished me for saying homosexuality is bad.

USAF: And now we're court martialing you for taking to the press. Mua-ha-ha-ha-ha!

(End scene.)

...yeah, that sounds plausible.
 
2013-09-09 10:25:01 PM
"We've been told that if you publicly say that homosexuality is wrong, you are in violation of Air Force policy."

As a retired 20 year veteran of the Air Force I see no problem with that policy. You are perfectly free to believe that homosexuality is wrong for you, in your own life. Nobody is denying you the freedom to practice your religion in your own life as you see fit. But when you begin subjecting other people to your beliefs, telling them they are immoral because they don't believe as you do, you are in the wrong.
 
2013-09-09 10:28:08 PM

ReapTheChaos: "We've been told that if you publicly say that homosexuality is wrong, you are in violation of Air Force policy."

As a retired 20 year veteran of the Air Force I see no problem with that policy. You are perfectly free to believe that homosexuality is wrong for you, in your own life. Nobody is denying you the freedom to practice your religion in your own life as you see fit. But when you begin subjecting other people to your beliefs, telling them they are immoral because they don't believe as you do, you are in the wrong.


But I really, really hate polygamists and scientologists.
 
2013-09-09 10:47:39 PM
i now know more about E-Ratings in the Navy and Airforce, thanks to the gays!

/have they deployed the homo division to Syria yet, to attract the wrath of god?
 
2013-09-09 11:26:24 PM
Article is obviously satire, since there are no heterosexuals in the Navy or the Air Force.
 
2013-09-09 11:47:06 PM
I swear that something exactly like this happened a couple months ago, prompting the same exact faux outrage.

i234.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-09 11:48:12 PM

TuteTibiImperes: No, your freedom of religion isn't being infringed here asspony.  Being Christian does not mean that you have to disagree with homosexuality, and it certainly doesn't mean that you have to vocalize or publicize any disapproval you may have.

Saying that you disagree with homosexuality or homosexuals serving is just as bigoted as saying you disagree with the existence of black people or them serving.


Freedom of speech and religion for you stops at the point where somebody says something you find offensive. What I find very interesting about people on the left is how intolerant they get while biatching about how intolerant everyone else is.
 
2013-09-09 11:51:42 PM

jjorsett: TuteTibiImperes: No, your freedom of religion isn't being infringed here asspony.  Being Christian does not mean that you have to disagree with homosexuality, and it certainly doesn't mean that you have to vocalize or publicize any disapproval you may have.

Saying that you disagree with homosexuality or homosexuals serving is just as bigoted as saying you disagree with the existence of black people or them serving.

Freedom of speech and religion for you stops at the point where somebody says something you find offensive. What I find very interesting about people on the left is how intolerant they get while biatching about how intolerant everyone else is.


It also stops when you're in the military and directing your bigotry at your CO. They kinda frown on that.
 
2013-09-10 12:01:56 AM

jjorsett: TuteTibiImperes: No, your freedom of religion isn't being infringed here asspony.  Being Christian does not mean that you have to disagree with homosexuality, and it certainly doesn't mean that you have to vocalize or publicize any disapproval you may have.

Saying that you disagree with homosexuality or homosexuals serving is just as bigoted as saying you disagree with the existence of black people or them serving.

Freedom of speech and religion for you stops at the point where somebody says something you find offensive. What I find very interesting about people on the left is how intolerant they get while biatching about how intolerant everyone else is.


You know, I have a friend who keeps Kosher. Personally, I find those rules to be pointless and arbitrary, but I figure it's her own business. That's Freedom of Religion.

Now, if I came across a guy who not only kept Kosher but insisted America's Moral Health relied on everyone else keeping Kosher as well, and started political campaigns on keeping pork out of all school lunches or banning cheeseburger ads from television shows that innocent children might see and making sure Federal tax dollars didn't ever go to support shellfish, that would tell me two things:
1> Some assholes don't understand what Freedom of Religion means, and
2> That guy really really desperately craves bacon.
 
2013-09-10 12:39:41 AM

spongeboob: What the Fark does this paragraph mean
Last week, Monk was supposed to meet with an Air Force investigator tasked with gathering facts about the complaint. But when he arrived, Monk was immediately read his Miranda Rights and accused of providing false statements in a coonversation Monk had with me.

Who is me, is me referring to the author of the article?
Now back to try and read the rest of the article why do I think I am going to have more questions?


Yes, the "me" in question is the author of the article.  The airman had lied about this situation to the author for a previous article the author wrote; this article is about how unfair it is that the airman is facing diciplinary action for lying to the press about Air Force policy and procedure, and how that means christians are being persecuted by the Air Force the way that gays were / are persecuted by "Christians" and they really don't like being treated like that.

/treat others something something like to be treated.
 
2013-09-10 12:58:50 AM
Are they still doing that mandatory "spiritual fitness" bullshiat at Fort Sam Houston?
 
2013-09-10 01:09:07 AM

Mr. Titanium: Weaver95: what_now: So basically, this dick freckle was harassing his fellow airmen and when told to knock it off he whined about how his rights to be an asshole for his god were being repressed?

This is why people don't like Christians.

That's my read on it as well. He kept preaching to the point he was affecting unit cohesion and was told to knock it off. Well...religious beliefs are fine and all, bout if your CO says dial it back, you dial it back or else.

He has extreme troubles with homosexuality, but not with the "Thou shalt not kill" part?  God only gave us 10 rules to follow, and NONE of them actually deal with homosexuality.  It would appear "being a Christian' is just an excuse he uses to cover his behavior issues.


Way more than 10 rules to follow actually. Something like 612 if I recall. Easier to ask a Hasidic Jew.
 
2013-09-10 01:27:34 AM

calufrax: A little off... argument here, but...

Why did they choose to go with a Swedish Air Force insignia bearing Saab Gripen as their photo to illustrate a jet fighter, rather than an aircraft the USAF currently use?


Because Townhall hates America.
 
2013-09-10 02:12:02 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Authoritarian followers are at least half the problem....


Funny you should say that; there's actually two scales covered in Altemeyer's handy PDF....
 
2013-09-10 02:37:03 AM
"This is why people don't like Christians."

Because all Christians are airmen...yeah, ok.
/not the looniest anti-religious statement I've seen on Fark.
 
2013-09-10 05:51:27 AM
I knew there was more to it than the Town Hall "article" presented as I have found out in this thread. Doesn't matter though, the religious nuts have their evil Obama hates Christians persecution complex reinforced and that is what matters. The irony that it comes from bearing false witness seems to escape them though.

I really dislike people like this because of their method of operation. They basically are con artists who play on people's faith to push their personal agenda under the guise that it is God's agenda. They act like total assholes in spreading their bastardized version of "faith"; and when someone stands up to them refusing to be bullied, they accuse the person of persecuting them for being Christian and "hating God" (rather than being an asshole, which is what they were called out for.) Then they go around and use it to fool other Christians who wouldn't support such a radical agenda under normal circumstances to join them in "protecting God". When in truth there is no persecution and all it is doing is preventing Christian's from helping the poor by making them de facto political activist pawns for people like the Koch brothers to push an anti-working class agenda.
 
2013-09-10 06:31:01 AM

super_grass: Being rich is either bad or good, you can't pick both.


Depends on how you got rich, and how you spend it.
 
2013-09-10 08:06:42 AM
Well, in the military you are GI, government issue, you are property, not a citizen, you don't have rights.


/didn't RTFA
 
2013-09-10 08:21:58 AM
"Christians have to go into the closet," he said. "We are being robbed of our dignity and respect. We can't be who we are."

That line is just perfect on so many levels that nothing else has to be said.
 
2013-09-10 08:27:33 AM

cman: Karac: freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.

Yes, they have that right.  But if they choose to exercise that bigotry in public, and in an official capacity, while working for an organization with a stated order to not harass people because of their sexual orientation ... well, then they should expect to have some problems at the office.

Then there is the other problem: POLITICS HAVE NO PLACE IN THE MILITARY

You should not ask and you should not tell.


That sounds like a political stance.
 
2013-09-10 08:40:06 AM
Good to see that Fark is turning into tumblr lite.
 
Displayed 50 of 158 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report