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(Townhall)   While fighting for your right to freedom of religion, the Air Force is suppressing it for their members   (townhall.com) divider line 158
    More: Asinine, air forces, freedom of religions, Lackland Air Force Base, base commander, Liberty Institute, Mirandize, fighting  
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2816 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Sep 2013 at 4:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



158 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-09 02:11:55 PM  
It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole
 
2013-09-09 02:15:05 PM  
Members of the armed forces are the property of the US government.  When told to jump, they need to ask how high.
 
2013-09-09 02:16:23 PM  

mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole


I'm sorry, I'm not seeing a difference.
 
2013-09-09 02:17:27 PM  
Officials at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio said that Monk and his commander had simply "agreed to disagree," adding "the wing commander said there was no punishment" for Monk's comments. Base officials stated that Monk was relieved of his duties because he was at the end of his assignment - not because of his views on LGBT issues.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/09/06/foxs-todd-starnes-christians- a re-trading-places/195753
 
2013-09-09 02:19:05 PM  
Yeah the reports of Airmen being forced to attend "nondenominational" but obviously fundie protestant church services or face a verbal reprimand from Commanding officer is just bullshiat http://www.truth-out.org/archive/item/91383:troops-punished-after-ref u sing-to-attend-evangelical-concert
 
2013-09-09 02:23:28 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

I'm sorry, I'm not seeing a difference.


Well, then you're an asshole too. The vast majority of people who are religious aren't assholes, and you know it.
 
2013-09-09 02:31:56 PM  
More from Stars & Stripes:

http://www.stripes.com/news/airman-opposed-to-gay-marriage-files-com pl aint-after-being-transferred-1.236835

"Monk's attorneys say the airman was reassigned to another base post and eventually barred from unit buildings. They say the moves are in direct violation of military rules governing religious freedoms.

But Air Force officials say that Monk's transfer from the squadron had been planned for months, to close out his two-year assignment there. Training wing spokeswoman Colleen McGee said Monk was not relieved of his position, but instead was informed of his upcoming assignment change in early May.

McGee said Monk was transferred a few weeks ago - about a month before he had expected to move - but only because his replacement arrived ahead of schedule."
 
2013-09-09 02:38:36 PM  
Fortunately, Liberty Counsel is on the job.....

mitchcumstein1: Well, then you're an asshole too. The vast majority of people who are religious aren't assholes, and you know it.


Unless your threshold for being an asshole is low enough to also consider most people to be assholes. If instead of using binary is/isn't terms, you consider asshole-nature via relative measure (like the difference between "hot/cold" versus temperature), the more asshole sorts are about equally distributed among the religious and irreligious.

It's the tendency to protofascism that correlates to religiosity, but not all protofascists are inherently assholes themselves; some are merely "following orders" types.
 
2013-09-09 02:43:11 PM  
The Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concert that Smith and others were told to attend was headlined by BarlowGirl, a "band of tender-hearted, beautiful young women who aren't afraid to take an aggressive, almost warrior-like stance when it comes to spreading the gospel and serving God," according to the group's web site.

Aggressively, militantly subservient.
 
2013-09-09 02:45:15 PM  

mitchcumstein1: cameroncrazy1984: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

I'm sorry, I'm not seeing a difference.

Well, then you're an asshole too. The vast majority of people who are religious aren't assholes, and you know it.


Not from personal experience, I'll tell you that. My entire family is religious and they're all asshole Republicans.
 
2013-09-09 02:47:51 PM  

kronicfeld: The Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concert that Smith and others were told to attend was headlined by BarlowGirl, a "band of tender-hearted, beautiful young women who aren't afraid to take an aggressive, almost warrior-like stance when it comes to spreading the gospel and serving God," according to the group's web site.

Aggressively, militantly subservient.

Power bottom.

The whole "army of God" thing has only waxed metaphorical in the last couple hundred years.
 
2013-09-09 03:01:57 PM  
I'm so glad I left the military (Army, not Air Farce) before the Evangelicals took over. Getting promoted is political enough as it is. Throw religion on top of that, and you're spending waay too much time kissing ass and not enough doing your actual job.
 
2013-09-09 03:09:27 PM  
Isn't there a Pacman looking graph to describe this?
 
2013-09-09 03:15:43 PM  

dj_bigbird: Isn't there a Pacman looking graph to describe this?


farm1.staticflickr.com
 
2013-09-09 03:16:31 PM  
wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?
 
2013-09-09 03:19:23 PM  
No, your freedom of religion isn't being infringed here asspony.  Being Christian does not mean that you have to disagree with homosexuality, and it certainly doesn't mean that you have to vocalize or publicize any disapproval you may have.

Saying that you disagree with homosexuality or homosexuals serving is just as bigoted as saying you disagree with the existence of black people or them serving.
 
2013-09-09 03:21:38 PM  

FlashHarry: wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?


I believe so, yes. I'm actually more than a bit concerned at how some of the evangelical death cults have tried to convert members of the US military.
 
2013-09-09 03:27:11 PM  
"Last week, Monk was supposed to meet with an Air Force investigator tasked with gathering facts about the complaint. But when he arrived, Monk was immediately read his Miranda Rights and accused of providing false statements in a conversation Monk had with me. "


I don't know about the accusation but during an investigation, everyone verbally interviewed is read Miranda Rights.  That's nothing big.
 
2013-09-09 03:32:26 PM  
In the military, don't you only have as much freedom of religion as the military says you have?

Proselytize on your own time, God Squad. You're in uniform - you fight for your country, not your lord.
 
2013-09-09 03:33:21 PM  

Weaver95: FlashHarry: wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?

I believe so, yes. I'm actually more than a bit concerned at how some of the evangelical death cults have tried to convert members of the US military.


The fact that the Evangelicals' Vatican is in Colorado Springs and within a laden swallow's flight from the US Air Force Academy hasn't really helped the cadets much, particularly those cadets whose religious beliefs don't include eager anticipation of a war which renders the human race extinct.
 
2013-09-09 03:33:23 PM  

UberDave: "Last week, Monk was supposed to meet with an Air Force investigator tasked with gathering facts about the complaint. But when he arrived, Monk was immediately read his Miranda Rights and accused of providing false statements in a conversation Monk had with me. "


I don't know about the accusation but during an investigation, everyone verbally interviewed is read Miranda Rights.  That's nothing big.


Except that a member off the armed forces doesn't have Miranda rights...least ways i never heard of it applying under the UCMJ. I could be wrong about that but...hmm. Interesting.
 
2013-09-09 03:33:57 PM  

kronicfeld: Aggressively, militantly subservient.


Sounds familiar....

Authoritarian followers usually support the established authorities in their society, such as government officials and traditional religious leaders. Such people have historically been the "proper" authorities in life, the time-honored, entitled, customary leaders, and that means a lot to most authoritarians. Psychologically these followers have personalities featuring:
1) a high degree of submission to the established, legitimate authorities in their society;
2) high levels of aggression in the name of their authorities; and
3) a high level of conventionalism.
 
2013-09-09 03:38:07 PM  
So basically, this dick freckle was harassing his fellow airmen and when told to knock it off he whined about how his rights to be an asshole for his god were being repressed?

This is why people don't like Christians.
 
2013-09-09 03:40:45 PM  
I have just as much sympathy for this jackoff as I would for some 1950's era Sergeant who held onto the religiously-infromed view that descendants of Ham shouldn't be allowed to serve in his unit.
 
2013-09-09 03:40:50 PM  
Yeah, some of the radical fundies have targeted the AF over the last 20 years.  Ironic considering that it's the service that depends most on science and high-tech.
 
2013-09-09 03:42:20 PM  

what_now: So basically, this dick freckle was harassing his fellow airmen and when told to knock it off he whined about how his rights to be an asshole for his god were being repressed?

This is why people don't like Christians.


Reported for calling out farkers not in thread.
 
2013-09-09 03:44:59 PM  

what_now: So basically, this dick freckle was harassing his fellow airmen and when told to knock it off he whined about how his rights to be an asshole for his god were being repressed?

This is why people don't like Christians.


That's my read on it as well. He kept preaching to the point he was affecting unit cohesion and was told to knock it off. Well...religious beliefs are fine and all, bout if your CO says dial it back, you dial it back or else.
 
2013-09-09 03:56:42 PM  
1993: Gay service members told to 'keep it to themselves'...

2013: Bigots upset they are being told to 'keep it to themselves'...
 
2013-09-09 04:09:39 PM  

Weaver95: UberDave: "Last week, Monk was supposed to meet with an Air Force investigator tasked with gathering facts about the complaint. But when he arrived, Monk was immediately read his Miranda Rights and accused of providing false statements in a conversation Monk had with me. "


I don't know about the accusation but during an investigation, everyone verbally interviewed is read Miranda Rights.  That's nothing big.

Except that a member off the armed forces doesn't have Miranda rights...least ways i never heard of it applying under the UCMJ. I could be wrong about that but...hmm. Interesting.


I don't remember the specifics on that - I just know that every time you gave a statement during an investigation you were given the Miranda Rights - and (without looking it up) I don't think they were exactly like civilian Miranda Rights...if that makes any sense.  I gave statements to investigators more than once (just BS stuff that didn't directly involve me) and ever time, they read the Rights.
 
2013-09-09 04:15:36 PM  
Better also to disarm in the same way, the precedent of Chaplainships for the army and navy

James Madison
 
2013-09-09 04:17:01 PM  
So Christians dont have problems when the Air Force orders them to drop bombs on people, but they DO have problems when the Air Force orders them to accept gay marriage?
 
IP
2013-09-09 04:19:33 PM  

FlashHarry: wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?


Yes.
 
2013-09-09 04:20:16 PM  

Weaver95: UberDave: "Last week, Monk was supposed to meet with an Air Force investigator tasked with gathering facts about the complaint. But when he arrived, Monk was immediately read his Miranda Rights and accused of providing false statements in a conversation Monk had with me. "


I don't know about the accusation but during an investigation, everyone verbally interviewed is read Miranda Rights.  That's nothing big.

Except that a member off the armed forces doesn't have Miranda rights...least ways i never heard of it applying under the UCMJ. I could be wrong about that but...hmm. Interesting.


They don't have Miranda rights by that specific name, but they do have most of the same rights under section 31 of the UCMJ and various other laws.  I got the official reading a few times when I had to give some statements to a pair of CID guys.  I don't remember there being anything in the papers I had to sign that was any different from what everyone's heard on Law & Order.
 
2013-09-09 04:24:28 PM  

vernonFL: So Christians dont have problems when the Air Force orders them to drop bombs on people, but they DO have problems when the Air Force orders them to accept gay marriage?


He wasn't ordered to accept gay marriage.  He was asked if he could keep his junior Airmen from adding in lessons about how gays shouldn't be allowed to serve into the classes they were teaching.
 
2013-09-09 04:25:15 PM  
This is the Air Force cracking down on Christians that are targeting members of other religions sites that have been set aside so they may worship (if I remember the story from the Air Force Academy correctly).

It's a secular force, and you have students and enlisted men lying to their superiors about being Christian so they don't get harassed or have their careers scrapped.
 
2013-09-09 04:25:34 PM  
If SMSgt Monk tells some airmen who's gay that they're an abomination before God, it's within my freedom of religion to have a private counseling session with SMSgt Monk.

/God, I despise self-serving, disgruntled airmen.
 
2013-09-09 04:26:45 PM  
amer-lit-puritan-textbook.wikispaces.com
 
2013-09-09 04:35:11 PM  
Damn, should have RTFA, this isn't even that hopeful scenario.

Keep it to yourselves boys and girls.  You're in the military to follow orders and protect the country, not proselytize and kill non-believers.
 
2013-09-09 04:44:46 PM  
Wow!  It's a Todd Starnes double feature with this and the greenlight below with the R rated Christian movie.
 
2013-09-09 04:51:11 PM  
In short, hurp.
 
2013-09-09 04:52:12 PM  
A 19-year Air Force veteran who was relieved of his duties because he disagreed with his openly gay commander over gay marriage is now facing a formal investigation after he told me his story.

[welltheresyourproblem.jpg]

If you're stupid enough to get into a religious discussion about how you think your commander's life choices are fundamentally immoral, you might not be Air Force material.
 
2013-09-09 04:53:50 PM  

FlashHarry: wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?


Yes.

Comeuppance is a biatch ain't it, you UberChristian farktards?

Go to church or I'll find something for you to do, my ass.
 
2013-09-09 04:54:56 PM  
In 7 years working as an Army civillian, I've never been to an Army function (Change of command ceremoney, graduation, etc.) that didn't begin and end with a prayer, and whenever some one brings this up in the Commander's "Suggestion box" or whatever, the response is always 'Noted.'
 
2013-09-09 04:55:14 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Members of the armed forces are the property of the US government.  When told to jump, they need to ask how high.


Actually we tend to ask if we really need to jump
 
2013-09-09 04:56:13 PM  
Reading the headline and seeing it's a Townhall link I am going to guess: Some asshole in the military is feeling "repressed" because he can't be intolerant to someone who has different views then him.
 
2013-09-09 04:57:26 PM  

Corvus: Reading the headline and seeing it's a Townhall link I am going to guess: Some asshole in the military is feeling "repressed" because he can't be intolerant to someone who has different views then him.


*ding* *ding* *ding*
 
2013-09-09 04:59:10 PM  

FrancoFile: Yeah, some of the radical fundies have targeted the AF over the last 20 years.  Ironic considering that it's the service that depends most on science and high-tech.


It's also the service that is in control of ICBMs.

Sleep well.
 
2013-09-09 04:59:55 PM  
Religion does not give you an alibi.
If you do not have the courage to accept gay marriage you have rejected the principles of Christianity.
Worse, you might be a fundamentalist.
The U.S. military is no place for you in either case.
 
2013-09-09 05:00:10 PM  

RexTalionis: Officials at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio said that Monk and his commander had simply "agreed to disagree," adding "the wing commander said there was no punishment" for Monk's comments. Base officials stated that Monk was relieved of his duties because he was at the end of his assignment - not because of his views on LGBT issues.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/09/06/foxs-todd-starnes-christians- a re-trading-places/195753


But how is ClownHall going to play the Christian persecution card now?
 
2013-09-09 05:00:41 PM  

Corvus: Corvus: Reading the headline and seeing it's a Townhall link I am going to guess: Some asshole in the military is feeling "repressed" because he can't be intolerant to someone who has different views then him.

*ding* *ding* *ding*


You're not supposed to ring your own bell, you know that, Corvus.

Nonetheless, *ding*.
 
2013-09-09 05:01:37 PM  
When was the last time the military confronted an actual, plausible threat to Americans' freedoms?  WWII?

Subby, groups like the ACLU and Americans United for Separation of Church and State are fighting for my freedom of religion.  The military is generally engaging in adventures in the Middle East, and doing various other things around the globe, most of which have basically nothing to do with any actual threats to my freedoms.
 
2013-09-09 05:01:42 PM  
rightwing christians: Assholes

leftwing christians: nice enough

Atheists: how about you religious people quit worshiping imaginary things and lets explore the universe by leaving this shiathole that is full of religious nuts who keep blowing things up for profit and control over humanity
 
2013-09-09 05:04:23 PM  
I got a real kick out of "Church or additional duty" Sundays when I was in Basic training.
 
2013-09-09 05:04:32 PM  
Oh sure. After having fundies in the Air Force Academy trying to force conversions on Jewish cadets, bulling atheists (and you can imagine what they did to the Muslim cadets), being told to "Hey! Stop acting like a bunch of Spanish Inquisition asshats!", they get all pouty and helphelpwerebeingoppressed.jpg
 
2013-09-09 05:05:39 PM  

spcMike: Marcus Aurelius: Members of the armed forces are the property of the US government.  When told to jump, they need to ask how high.

Actually we tend to ask if we really need to jump


I believe it was Von Steuban who noted: "With Prussian soldiers, I tell them to dig, and they grab a shovel. With Americans I tell them to dig and they ask 'what is the hole for?'"

He is also where we get the expression "By the numbers" from. He didn't speak a word of English, so he prepared all of the maneuvers he wanted the troops to perform pictorially, and labeled each with a number. On the drill field he would call out the number.

You know the drill ;-)
 
2013-09-09 05:07:20 PM  
Now where did I put that pesky "We're being oppressed" Christian pie chart .jpg?
 
2013-09-09 05:08:52 PM  

UberDave: Weaver95: UberDave: "Last week, Monk was supposed to meet with an Air Force investigator tasked with gathering facts about the complaint. But when he arrived, Monk was immediately read his Miranda Rights and accused of providing false statements in a conversation Monk had with me. "


I don't know about the accusation but during an investigation, everyone verbally interviewed is read Miranda Rights.  That's nothing big.

Except that a member off the armed forces doesn't have Miranda rights...least ways i never heard of it applying under the UCMJ. I could be wrong about that but...hmm. Interesting.

I don't remember the specifics on that - I just know that every time you gave a statement during an investigation you were given the Miranda Rights - and (without looking it up) I don't think they were exactly like civilian Miranda Rights...if that makes any sense.  I gave statements to investigators more than once (just BS stuff that didn't directly involve me) and ever time, they read the Rights.


Those subject to the UCMJ are given written/verbal notice of their rights as outlined in Article 31.  They are in some ways similar to Miranda warnings, but are broader and actually predate Miranda by a dozen years or so.

Article 31 (UCMJ):
a. No person subject to this chapter may compel any person to incriminate himself or to answer any questions the answer to which may tend to incriminate him.
b. No person subject to this chapter may interrogate or request any statement from an accused or a person suspected of an offense without first informing him of the nature of the accusation and advising him that he does not have to make any statement regarding the offense of which he is accused or suspected, and that any statement made by him may be used as evidence against him in a trial by court-martial.
c. No person subject to this chapter may compel any person to make a statement or produce evidence before any military tribunal if the statement or evidence is not material to the issue and may tend to degrade him.
d. No statement obtained from any person in violation of this article, or through the use of coercion, unlawful influence, or unlawful inducement, may be received in evidence against him in a trial by court-martial.
 
2013-09-09 05:10:04 PM  
I exchanged gay or homosexual with black, interracial or Negro and Christian/religious with white and re-read the article. Looked like something out of the early 1960s.
 
2013-09-09 05:10:33 PM  

Corvus: Reading the headline and seeing it's a Townhall link I am going to guess: Some asshole in the military is feeling "repressed" because he can't be intolerant to someone who has different views then him.


i1198.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-09 05:10:49 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: mitchcumstein1: cameroncrazy1984: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

I'm sorry, I'm not seeing a difference.

Well, then you're an asshole too. The vast majority of people who are religious aren't assholes, and you know it.

Not from personal experience, I'll tell you that. My entire family is religious and they're all asshole Republicans.


Then you need to step outside of your bubble. It's not hard to find nice people who also believe in magic.
 
2013-09-09 05:11:09 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: mitchcumstein1: cameroncrazy1984: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

I'm sorry, I'm not seeing a difference.

Well, then you're an asshole too. The vast majority of people who are religious aren't assholes, and you know it.

Not from personal experience, I'll tell you that. My entire family is religious and they're all asshole Republicans.


Maybe the common denominator is you.

Ever think of that?
 
2013-09-09 05:12:08 PM  

Weaver95: what_now: So basically, this dick freckle was harassing his fellow airmen and when told to knock it off he whined about how his rights to be an asshole for his god were being repressed?

This is why people don't like Christians.

That's my read on it as well. He kept preaching to the point he was affecting unit cohesion and was told to knock it off. Well...religious beliefs are fine and all, bout if your CO says dial it back, you dial it back or else.


He has extreme troubles with homosexuality, but not with the "Thou shalt not kill" part?  God only gave us 10 rules to follow, and NONE of them actually deal with homosexuality.  It would appear "being a Christian' is just an excuse he uses to cover his behavior issues.
 
2013-09-09 05:12:21 PM  
Sir, I knew Jesus Christ, You sir are no Jesus Christ.
 
2013-09-09 05:12:26 PM  
Meh, the USAF is full of fundies. They aren't being suppressed... they're upset that they aren't permitted to force their religion on everyone else while at work. Work is for farking WORK, not for religion, not for sexual orientation time (regardless of your orientation or how much you don't like someone elses orientation), not for any of that other bullshiat... go to work to work.
 
2013-09-09 05:12:29 PM  

mitchcumstein1: cameroncrazy1984: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

I'm sorry, I'm not seeing a difference.

Well, then you're an asshole too. The vast majority of people who are religious aren't assholes, and you know it.


This.

/Agnostic
 
2013-09-09 05:16:43 PM  
Little did I know that "freedom of religion" meant drumming anyone not Christian out of the service.

Take your persecution complex and go home,
 
2013-09-09 05:18:57 PM  
Don't you guys get it? Christians have the right to impose their values on everybody because of Stalin and Mao and furthermore
 
2013-09-09 05:19:27 PM  

Weaver95: Except that a member off the armed forces doesn't have Miranda rights...least ways i never heard of it applying under the UCMJ. I could be wrong about that but...hmm. Interesting.


They do actually. I've had to read them to a guy that I was taking into custody for a UA charge. They also have protections regarding their personal effects and searches. In that same case while we were still looking for the guy I was not allowed to look in his locker to see if he had left anything in there. This was in 1989.

In the end it turned out to be a combination of him being dumb and some missed messages. He got 2 weeks of restriction and a 1 month hit in pay over it but he turned out to be a pretty good sailor in the end. I was at his mast and stood up for him even though I was the one who originally charged him.
 
2013-09-09 05:19:43 PM  
I was going to read the article, but as soon as I clicked it there was an advertisement over the page about a book that has "Obama is going to take your gun" in the title.
 
Ant
2013-09-09 05:24:49 PM  
Nobody has to tolerate your intolerance, assholes!
 
2013-09-09 05:28:11 PM  
LOL at the stock photo of a Swedish fighter jet that Townhall includes in a piece about the USAF.
 
2013-09-09 05:30:11 PM  
19 years in and he hasn't made Chief yet? 19 years and now he'll never make Chief.
 
2013-09-09 05:31:58 PM  

Weaver95: FlashHarry: wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?

I believe so, yes. I'm actually more than a bit concerned at how some of the evangelical death cults have tried to convert members of the US military.

Not Air Force, but this West Point shiatstain now runs the so-called Family Research Council
 
2013-09-09 05:41:07 PM  

Bawdy George: Weaver95: FlashHarry: wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?

I believe so, yes. I'm actually more than a bit concerned at how some of the evangelical death cults have tried to convert members of the US military.
Not Air Force, but this West Point shiatstain now runs the so-called Family Research Council


well that was a depressing read....thanks man.
 
2013-09-09 05:44:24 PM  

Evil Twin Skippy: spcMike: Marcus Aurelius: Members of the armed forces are the property of the US government.  When told to jump, they need to ask how high.

Actually we tend to ask if we really need to jump

I believe it was Von Steuban who noted: "With Prussian soldiers, I tell them to dig, and they grab a shovel. With Americans I tell them to dig and they ask 'what is the hole for?'"

He is also where we get the expression "By the numbers" from. He didn't speak a word of English, so he prepared all of the maneuvers he wanted the troops to perform pictorially, and labeled each with a number. On the drill field he would call out the number.

You know the drill ;-)


Personally, I see that as a good thing.  If some German soldiers would only have asked what the holes were for in the '40s, perhaps a lot of heartache could have been avoided.

/Godwin
 
2013-09-09 05:45:16 PM  
I must've been in the wrong career field, I don't think there was a single Christian in our flight.
 
2013-09-09 05:49:38 PM  

FnkyTwn: 19 years in and he hasn't made Chief yet? 19 years and now he'll never make Chief.


Of those who even manage to attain that rank the average time in service is over 22 years before one makes it.
 
2013-09-09 05:53:23 PM  

RexTalionis: dj_bigbird: Isn't there a Pacman looking graph to describe this?


It needs a little venn-diagram area in the yellow denoting actual pacmen.
 
2013-09-09 05:58:07 PM  

Weaver95: Bawdy George: Weaver95: FlashHarry: wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?

I believe so, yes. I'm actually more than a bit concerned at how some of the evangelical death cults have tried to convert members of the US military.
Not Air Force, but this West Point shiatstain now runs the so-called Family Research Council

well that was a depressing read....thanks man.


Even more depressing: IIRC his reports were under orders to hand out Bibles... in Iraq.
 
2013-09-09 05:59:26 PM  

loki see loki do: FlashHarry: wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?

Yes.

Comeuppance is a biatch ain't it, you UberChristian farktards?

Go to church or I'll find something for you to do, my ass.


georgetakeiohmy.jpg
 
2013-09-09 06:00:41 PM  
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
 
2013-09-09 06:01:27 PM  

Bawdy George: Weaver95: Bawdy George: Weaver95: FlashHarry: wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?

I believe so, yes. I'm actually more than a bit concerned at how some of the evangelical death cults have tried to convert members of the US military.
Not Air Force, but this West Point shiatstain now runs the so-called Family Research Council

well that was a depressing read....thanks man.

Even more depressing: IIRC his reports were under orders to hand out Bibles... in Iraq.


I wonder how the religious right would react if pagans or muslims decided it was cool to use high pressure tactics like that to recruit more to their faiths?  ya think the evangelicals would be cool with it?
 
2013-09-09 06:03:03 PM  

The Drawing Board: Of those who even manage to attain that rank the average time in service is over 22 years before one makes it.


That depends upon the type of service. I knew more than one 12 year chief and if I had stayed in I probably would have been one too (I was a 6 year E6 with no re-enlistment or school bump, all of my promotions were based upon points and doing well on tests). I knew very few 20 year E6's. The surface navy is different I know but in submarines they are rare.
 
2013-09-09 06:04:35 PM  

Weaver95: UberDave: "Last week, Monk was supposed to meet with an Air Force investigator tasked with gathering facts about the complaint. But when he arrived, Monk was immediately read his Miranda Rights and accused of providing false statements in a conversation Monk had with me. "


I don't know about the accusation but during an investigation, everyone verbally interviewed is read Miranda Rights.  That's nothing big.

Except that a member off the armed forces doesn't have Miranda rights...least ways i never heard of it applying under the UCMJ. I could be wrong about that but...hmm. Interesting.


Yes they do. Or they did in 1978 anyway. We had an instance of Top Secret and Secret computer tapes getting out. The Secret ones had been degaused (SP?) but the Top Secret ones had not. As the head of the computer tape library for the Secret tapes, I had to testify and before they questioned me, they read me my Miranda rights.
 
2013-09-09 06:04:53 PM  
The Air Force is fighting for my freedom of religion?  Against whom?
 
2013-09-09 06:08:00 PM  

mitchcumstein1: cameroncrazy1984: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

I'm sorry, I'm not seeing a difference.

Well, then you're an asshole too. The vast majority of people who are religious aren't assholes, and you know it.


oh the irony-
trying to say hes not ===> he proves he is
 
2013-09-09 06:08:35 PM  

Type_Hard: 1993: Gay service members told to 'keep it to themselves'...

2013: Bigots upset they are being told to 'keep it to themselves'...


As I spent 16 years in the Navy as a atheist (It was on my dog tags) the only word to describe this is "Irony"

/Every night underway, at 2200 (10:00 pm to you non military types) I got to hear a evening prayer even though I never believed in a magic sky daddy who can't wait to kill you for the sins he created.
 
2013-09-09 06:10:14 PM  
Since when has the Air Force been fighting for my freedom of religion and who are they fighting?
 
2013-09-09 06:12:41 PM  

Radioactive Ass: The Drawing Board: Of those who even manage to attain that rank the average time in service is over 22 years before one makes it.

That depends upon the type of service. I knew more than one 12 year chief and if I had stayed in I probably would have been one too (I was a 6 year E6 with no re-enlistment or school bump, all of my promotions were based upon points and doing well on tests). I knew very few 20 year E6's. The surface navy is different I know but in submarines they are rare.


Are we talking about the same branch here? The Air Force I was in has a 14 year TIS requirement before making Chief and a 12 year E-7 is considere a fairly fast burner...
 
2013-09-09 06:15:10 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Not from personal experience, I'll tell you that. My entire family is religious and they're all asshole Republicans.


well, that explains a lot
 
2013-09-09 06:16:43 PM  

kronicfeld: The Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concert that Smith and others were told to attend was headlined by BarlowGirl, a "band of tender-hearted, beautiful young women who aren't afraid to take an aggressive, almost warrior-like stance when it comes to spreading the gospel and serving God," according to the group's web site.

Aggressively, militantly subservient.


That's the paradox of the military lower echelons, isn't it? Expected to be ooh-rah and aggressive, but subservient to the command chain...
 
2013-09-09 06:18:05 PM  

FlashHarry: wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?


The USAFA is in Colorado Springs.  Focus on the Family opened an "outreach center" in Colorado Springs about 15 years ago or so.  They aggressively stalked and proselytized cadets while the academy cadre either turned a blind eye, or openly cooperated with FotF.

The first crop of seniors have been hitting squadron commander billets in the past few years, which is why this shiat has gotten ridiculous lately.
 
2013-09-09 06:19:12 PM  

RexTalionis: Officials at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio said that Monk and his commander had simply "agreed to disagree," adding "the wing commander said there was no punishment" for Monk's comments. Base officials stated that Monk was relieved of his duties because he was at the end of his assignment - not because of his views on LGBT issues.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/09/06/foxs-todd-starnes-christians- a re-trading-places/195753


Dammit. I saw Townhall.com and I just KNEW this was bound to be complete bullshiat. But there's a lot of people out there - I know a few - who will see this Townhall garbage and think it's true and never find out otherwise.

If there really was a hell the people who feed this kind of society wide ignorance would surely burn there some day.
 
2013-09-09 06:22:33 PM  

Bawdy George: Weaver95: FlashHarry: wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?

I believe so, yes. I'm actually more than a bit concerned at how some of the evangelical death cults have tried to convert members of the US military.
Not Air Force, but this West Point shiatstain now runs the so-called Family Research Council


That guy sounds like a certifiable lunatic.
 
2013-09-09 06:24:51 PM  

Ed Grubermann: Bawdy George: Weaver95: FlashHarry: wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?

I believe so, yes. I'm actually more than a bit concerned at how some of the evangelical death cults have tried to convert members of the US military.
Not Air Force, but this West Point shiatstain now runs the so-called Family Research Council

That guy sounds like a certifiable lunatic.


I knew it was Crazy Jerry Boykin before I even clicked.  It doesn't even mention the part where he claims he saw demons attacking Army Rangers in Somalia.
 
2013-09-09 06:30:09 PM  

Great_Milenko: Corvus: Reading the headline and seeing it's a Townhall link I am going to guess: Some asshole in the military is feeling "repressed" because he can't be intolerant to someone who has different views then him.

[i1198.photobucket.com image 300x300]


Well that saves me the trouble of further contemplating clicking on a Townhall link.

/help!we'rebeingoppressed.jpg
 
2013-09-09 06:41:41 PM  

The Drawing Board: Are we talking about the same branch here? The Air Force I was in has a 14 year TIS requirement before making Chief and a 12 year E-7 is considere a fairly fast burner...


At the time (Navy by the way) the short path from E1 to E6 broke down as follows: 6 months (E1 to E2), 6 months (E2 to E3), 9 months (E3 to E4), 1 year (E4 to E5), 3 years (E5 to E6) and 4 years (E6 to E7). That's excluding any reenlistment bumps upwards. As long as you aren't in a closed rating it was fairly easy to go up as long as you know your shiat and don't get lower than ~3.8 evals. E7 was a bit harder to get due to how the selection process worked but it wasn't unheard of at all, much less rare, to have someone with 12 years in make chief as long as the billets were open. The surface navy was a different story though, mainly because there were so many people competing at the same time.

Submarines don't have a great retention rate simply because of the stress of the job so billets open fairly often. You don't see a whole lot of 30 year guys and all of them are long-time E9's at that point. I had an E8 LCPO that I worked with who hadn't even reached 20 years. He retired as an E8 because, as he put it, after then he was working for half price (meaning that he was already eligible for retirement pay at 50% of his salary so by retiring and working in the civilian sector he would be making more).
 
2013-09-09 06:44:48 PM  
What the Fark does this paragraph mean
Last week, Monk was supposed to meet with an Air Force investigator tasked with gathering facts about the complaint. But when he arrived, Monk was immediately read his Miranda Rights and accused of providing false statements in a coonversation Monk had with me.

Who is me, is me referring to the author of the article?
Now back to try and read the rest of the article why do I think I am going to have more questions?
 
2013-09-09 06:46:53 PM  

Bloody William: A 19-year Air Force veteran who was relieved of his duties because he disagreed with his openly gay commander over gay marriage is now facing a formal investigation after he told me his story.

[welltheresyourproblem.jpg]

If you're stupid enough to get into a religious discussion about how you think your commander's life choices are fundamentally immoral, you might not be Air Force material.


Yeeeeep. You're in the military, dumbass. If your CO says something, maybe you shouldn't respond with 'well, okay, but I think you're going to burn in Hell for it'. You will come off as insubordinate and mind-bogglingly stupid.
 
2013-09-09 06:49:13 PM  
He said the Monk family has a "family ethos."

Made me think of
 Nihilists! Fark me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
 
2013-09-09 06:57:06 PM  

PsiChick: Yeeeeep. You're in the military, dumbass. If your CO says something, maybe you shouldn't respond with 'well, okay, but I think you're going to burn in Hell for it'. You will come off as insubordinate and mind-bogglingly stupid.


I was faced with that quandary once. A new CO that had never been on a boomer wanted me and my guys to do something that I knew for a fact was against his direct superiors policies (but it was common on fast attacks which is where he came from). I ended up telling him that we would do it if ordered to but that he might want to check with them first.

We ended up not doing it but he never really liked me after that. I told him what I did to cover my own ass because I knew that if we did what he wanted Squadron was going to chew out my ass for doing it so I wanted to be able to tell them that the CO ordered it against my recommendation.
 
2013-09-09 06:59:23 PM  

FrancoFile: Yeah, some of the radical fundies have targeted the AF over the last 20 years.  Ironic considering that it's the service that depends most on science and high-tech.


Pilots seem to me to be more like engineers than scientist and I will just leave this here

And the Navy has Nuclear subs and Aircraft carriers they sure need to know their science.
 
2013-09-09 07:04:09 PM  
Wow how many idiotic things can I find in this article

Another airman has been brought up on charges eight times.


I doubt that someone who is brought up on charges for the same offense eight times has the required intelligence to be in the modern military.
 
2013-09-09 07:04:23 PM  
I for one think this is a very good idea, do you want the man who is flying with the nuked to be raptured?
  What happens if that plane crashes on Jesus?  I for one am not willing to take this kind of risk, at the very most they should be allowed to transport mail and laundry.
 
2013-09-09 07:08:12 PM  
 Oh no that headline sounds like he's being punished for being a christian....and of course that's not even close. I wonder if subby thinks those discharged from the military after refusing to serve with black soldiers after military integration were also being persecuted? It seems that much of the christian "persecution" is just them not being able to persecute others.
 
2013-09-09 07:23:46 PM  

Radioactive Ass: The Drawing Board: Are we talking about the same branch here? The Air Force I was in has a 14 year TIS requirement before making Chief and a 12 year E-7 is considere a fairly fast burner...

At the time (Navy by the way) the short path from E1 to E6 broke down as follows: 6 months (E1 to E2), 6 months (E2 to E3), 9 months (E3 to E4), 1 year (E4 to E5), 3 years (E5 to E6) and 4 years (E6 to E7). That's excluding any reenlistment bumps upwards. As long as you aren't in a closed rating it was fairly easy to go up as long as you know your shiat and don't get lower than ~3.8 evals. E7 was a bit harder to get due to how the selection process worked but it wasn't unheard of at all, much less rare, to have someone with 12 years in make chief as long as the billets were open. The surface navy was a different story though, mainly because there were so many people competing at the same time.

Submarines don't have a great retention rate simply because of the stress of the job so billets open fairly often. You don't see a whole lot of 30 year guys and all of them are long-time E9's at that point. I had an E8 LCPO that I worked with who hadn't even reached 20 years. He retired as an E8 because, as he put it, after then he was working for half price (meaning that he was already eligible for retirement pay at 50% of his salary so by retiring and working in the civilian sector he would be making more).


Ah, that clarifies...I forgot that an E-7 in the Navy is a Chief.  Yes, making E-7 in the AF after 12 years is rare but certainly not unheard of.  I only did four years and have been out since 2006 but a good buddy of mine is in his 12th year now and he just made E-7.  A Chief in the AF is an E-9.  14 years TIS is the minimum to make E-9 in the AF and I'd be willing to bet someone makes it that fast once a decade, if that.
 
2013-09-09 07:34:02 PM  
I attended Navy before the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell.  The audience was mostly officers and the message they put out to those who feel that for religious purposes who feel they can't serve with gay service members was petty simple.  "We will accept your resignation and thank you for your service."
 
2013-09-09 07:34:05 PM  

abb3w: kronicfeld: Aggressively, militantly subservient.

Sounds familiar....

Authoritarian followers usually support the established authorities in their society, such as government officials and traditional religious leaders. Such people have historically been the "proper" authorities in life, the time-honored, entitled, customary leaders, and that means a lot to most authoritarians. Psychologically these followers have personalities featuring:
1) a high degree of submission to the established, legitimate authorities in their society;
2) high levels of aggression in the name of their authorities; and
3) a high level of conventionalism.


Sehr awesome. +1
Newsletter, I want to subscribe.

Authoritarian followers are at least half the problem....
 
2013-09-09 07:45:29 PM  

The Drawing Board: Ah, that clarifies...I forgot that an E-7 in the Navy is a Chief. Yes, making E-7 in the AF after 12 years is rare but certainly not unheard of. I only did four years and have been out since 2006 but a good buddy of mine is in his 12th year now and he just made E-7. A Chief in the AF is an E-9. 14 years TIS is the minimum to make E-9 in the AF and I'd be willing to bet someone makes it that fast once a decade, if that.


Yeah, E9 is pretty much limited to around 20 years in. There are no Master Chiefs that I knew of that did it in less time than that. Part of it has to do with that by the time someone makes Chief they are pretty much committed to doing the full 20 years so billets don't open up all that often, unlike in the lower ranks where 6 years or so is much more often than not when people get out. I ended up doing eight and a half years (extensions to qualify for sub pay while I was on shore duty is why the odd number, I had to commit to two years of sea duty after shore duty). I got out because I had a kid and didn't want to have her not have a father around for over half of her life if I had stayed in. I saw too many crying kids left on the pier (so to speak) and I didn't want that to happen to my kid. If not for that I probably would have done my 20, I didn't have any real issues with doing the job itself and enjoyed a lot of it. Of course there were also parts of it that sucked but that was just the price of doing business as far as I was concerned.
 
2013-09-09 07:48:06 PM  
No, they're not.
 
2013-09-09 08:12:05 PM  

FrancoFile: Yeah, some of the radical fundies have targeted the AF over the last 20 years.  Ironic considering that it's the service that depends most on science and high-tech.


It's also the service that controls our ICBM's.  Makes sense when your realize the fundies want Armageddon, doesn't it?  Scares the shiat out of me.
 
2013-09-09 08:14:14 PM  

NuttierThanEver: Yeah the reports of Airmen being forced to attend "nondenominational" but obviously fundie protestant church services or face a verbal reprimand from Commanding officer is just bullshiat http://www.truth-out.org/archive/item/91383:troops-punished-after-ref u sing-to-attend-evangelical-concert


A lot of people don't understand what "nondenominational" means and think it is something like "all-denominational" - vague enough to be acceptable to all Christian denominations including Catholics and Mormons and maybe even outsiders like Jews or Muslims.

"nondenominational" means not affiliated with any denomination. Most mega churches are "nondenominational" which means they can make up whatever crazy theology they want without it being the accepted teachings of any denomination, and more importantly they get to keep all of their money and don't have to contribute to a parent organization.

Avoid "nondenominational" because they are often crazy and out to take your money.
 
2013-09-09 08:24:20 PM  

mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole


People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.
 
2013-09-09 08:27:17 PM  

freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.


Aren't they a protected group now? Homosexuals are more equal than your average American these days.
 
2013-09-09 08:31:11 PM  

super_grass: Aren't they a protected group now? Homosexuals are more equal than your average American these days.


I didn't say people had a right to discriminate against them, but giving an opinion when asked for it isn't something you should be punished for.
 
2013-09-09 08:34:02 PM  

freak7: super_grass: Aren't they a protected group now? Homosexuals are more equal than your average American these days.

I didn't say people had a right to discriminate against them, but giving an opinion when asked for it isn't something you should be punished for.


Actually it is. You're going to get shiatcanned from any jerb thanks to harassment laws and get banned from most establishments. So you still have a "right" to express these opinions, but there will be retribution designed to stop you from doing it.
 
2013-09-09 08:35:13 PM  

super_grass: freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.

Aren't they a protected group now? Homosexuals are more equal than your average American these days.


Fifty years ago, you idiots would be the same people whining about miscegenation.  I wonder, in another fifty years, when you anti-gay bigots are marginalized with the racists, what group will your kind be hating?
 
2013-09-09 08:36:54 PM  

LordJiro: super_grass: freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.

Aren't they a protected group now? Homosexuals are more equal than your average American these days.

Fifty years ago, you idiots would be the same people whining about miscegenation.  I wonder, in another fifty years, when you anti-gay bigots are marginalized with the racists, what group will your kind be hating?


Probably the trans-aminal otherkin headmate movement gaining steam on Tumblr. Now there's a textbook case of degeneracy worth fighting!
 
2013-09-09 08:37:00 PM  

freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.


Sure they do, but it doesn't give them freedom from consequence.

It's no different than thinking people of a different ethnic background are lesser human beings. You can think it, but it doesn't mean you get to say it and act on it without dealing with the repercussions of those thoughts and actions.
 
2013-09-09 08:57:40 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Members of the armed forces are the property of the US government.  When told to jump, they need to ask how high.


And then they get dishonorably discharged for questioning orders.
 
2013-09-09 09:12:04 PM  

freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.


Yes, they have that right.  But if they choose to exercise that bigotry in public, and in an official capacity, while working for an organization with a stated order to not harass people because of their sexual orientation ... well, then they should expect to have some problems at the office.
 
2013-09-09 09:13:26 PM  

Karac: freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.

Yes, they have that right.  But if they choose to exercise that bigotry in public, and in an official capacity, while working for an organization with a stated order to not harass people because of their sexual orientation ... well, then they should expect to have some problems at the office.


Then there is the other problem: POLITICS HAVE NO PLACE IN THE MILITARY

You should not ask and you should not tell.
 
2013-09-09 09:17:29 PM  

LordJiro: super_grass: freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.

Aren't they a protected group now? Homosexuals are more equal than your average American these days.

Fifty years ago, you idiots would be the same people whining about miscegenation.  I wonder, in another fifty years, when you anti-gay bigots are marginalized with the racists, what group will your kind be hating?


That's assuming society will always "move forward".  It's unlikely, but if we start to enter a new Dark Age*, I bet racism ( both individual & institutional ) will make a big comeback....

*economic collapse
 
2013-09-09 09:26:18 PM  
A little off... argument here, but...

Why did they choose to go with a Swedish Air Force insignia bearing Saab Gripen as their photo to illustrate a jet fighter, rather than an aircraft the USAF currently use?
 
2013-09-09 09:29:38 PM  

LordJiro: Fifty years ago, you idiots would be the same people whining about miscegenation. I wonder, in another fifty years, when you anti-gay bigots are marginalized with the racists, what group will your kind be hating?


The "jiggleless" - people who are not tubs of lard?
 
2013-09-09 09:39:42 PM  

spongeboob: What the Fark does this paragraph mean
Last week, Monk was supposed to meet with an Air Force investigator tasked with gathering facts about the complaint. But when he arrived, Monk was immediately read his Miranda Rights and accused of providing false statements in a coonversation Monk had with me.

Who is me, is me referring to the author of the article?
Now back to try and read the rest of the article why do I think I am going to have more questions?


I believe so.  Going with that reading, it makes some sense.  If he (SMSgt) said the stuff he said (persecuted for being Christian) to author guy (writes for Townhall), then he just made (false) allegations to the press about the AF, whom he represents.  He essentially came out as the AF saying that the AF persecutes Christians.  He doesn't have the authority to do that (not to mention it's not true).

/How'd you make Senior being so stupid?
//All opinions expressed in this post are my own and may not be representative of any organization to which I belong.
 
2013-09-09 09:47:09 PM  

super_grass: freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.

Aren't they a protected group now? Homosexuals are more equal than your average American these days.


You are aware that protections against "age, sex, religion, race and sexual orientation" go BOTH ways, right?  That if you are discriminated against for being straight (for example, you are not hired by a salon because you are straight and the owner prefers that guys who work there be gay guys), you have just as much standing as someone who is discriminated against for being gay?  It works the same way for the other categories, too.  If someone fires you for being too old, your case is just as solid as someone who couldn't get a job for being too young.  If you aren't hired because you're male, you have as much a case as if you were not hired for being female.  Black or white, too.  Atheist or hardcore fundie, Muslim or Jew, if you're discriminated on that basis, you have standing.

So, yeah.  The "more equal" thing is bullshiat.  And now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
www.millionaireplayboy.com
 
2013-09-09 09:55:35 PM  

super_grass: Aren't they a protected group now? Homosexuals are more equal than your average American these days.


Yes some Americans are more equal than others.

Gays statistically have higher incomes, better taste, and live in better neighborhoods. If we can't go after rich people can't we at least go after gays?
 
2013-09-09 10:14:46 PM  

HairBolus: super_grass: Aren't they a protected group now? Homosexuals are more equal than your average American these days.

Yes some Americans are more equal than others.

Gays statistically have higher incomes, better taste, and live in better neighborhoods. If we can't go after rich people can't we at least go after gays?


So they are the leeches who feed off the fruits of the laborer and use their ill gotten gains to shield themselves from the problems of the world?

Being rich is either bad or good, you can't pick both.
 
2013-09-09 10:17:29 PM  
Accepting the article as complete truth, this is what they're telling us happened:

(Scene: Lackland AFB)

COMMANDER LESBIAN: This instructor says that homosexuals are committing a sin. I'm going to punish them! Mua-ha-ha-ha-ha!

SGT. MONK: ....

CL: Sergeant Monk, you're standing right here. I order you to tell me your true opinions on gay marriage.

MONK: I don't like it.

CL: You are violating the USAF's rule against saying homosexuality is bad. Relieved of position!

RIGHT-WING NEWS OUTLET: You look sad. What's wrong, Sgt. Monk?

MONK: The Air Force punished me for saying homosexuality is bad.

USAF: And now we're court martialing you for taking to the press. Mua-ha-ha-ha-ha!

(End scene.)

...yeah, that sounds plausible.
 
2013-09-09 10:25:01 PM  
"We've been told that if you publicly say that homosexuality is wrong, you are in violation of Air Force policy."

As a retired 20 year veteran of the Air Force I see no problem with that policy. You are perfectly free to believe that homosexuality is wrong for you, in your own life. Nobody is denying you the freedom to practice your religion in your own life as you see fit. But when you begin subjecting other people to your beliefs, telling them they are immoral because they don't believe as you do, you are in the wrong.
 
2013-09-09 10:28:08 PM  

ReapTheChaos: "We've been told that if you publicly say that homosexuality is wrong, you are in violation of Air Force policy."

As a retired 20 year veteran of the Air Force I see no problem with that policy. You are perfectly free to believe that homosexuality is wrong for you, in your own life. Nobody is denying you the freedom to practice your religion in your own life as you see fit. But when you begin subjecting other people to your beliefs, telling them they are immoral because they don't believe as you do, you are in the wrong.


But I really, really hate polygamists and scientologists.
 
2013-09-09 10:47:39 PM  
i now know more about E-Ratings in the Navy and Airforce, thanks to the gays!

/have they deployed the homo division to Syria yet, to attract the wrath of god?
 
2013-09-09 11:26:24 PM  
Article is obviously satire, since there are no heterosexuals in the Navy or the Air Force.
 
2013-09-09 11:47:06 PM  
I swear that something exactly like this happened a couple months ago, prompting the same exact faux outrage.

i234.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-09 11:48:12 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: No, your freedom of religion isn't being infringed here asspony.  Being Christian does not mean that you have to disagree with homosexuality, and it certainly doesn't mean that you have to vocalize or publicize any disapproval you may have.

Saying that you disagree with homosexuality or homosexuals serving is just as bigoted as saying you disagree with the existence of black people or them serving.


Freedom of speech and religion for you stops at the point where somebody says something you find offensive. What I find very interesting about people on the left is how intolerant they get while biatching about how intolerant everyone else is.
 
2013-09-09 11:51:42 PM  

jjorsett: TuteTibiImperes: No, your freedom of religion isn't being infringed here asspony.  Being Christian does not mean that you have to disagree with homosexuality, and it certainly doesn't mean that you have to vocalize or publicize any disapproval you may have.

Saying that you disagree with homosexuality or homosexuals serving is just as bigoted as saying you disagree with the existence of black people or them serving.

Freedom of speech and religion for you stops at the point where somebody says something you find offensive. What I find very interesting about people on the left is how intolerant they get while biatching about how intolerant everyone else is.


It also stops when you're in the military and directing your bigotry at your CO. They kinda frown on that.
 
2013-09-10 12:01:56 AM  

jjorsett: TuteTibiImperes: No, your freedom of religion isn't being infringed here asspony.  Being Christian does not mean that you have to disagree with homosexuality, and it certainly doesn't mean that you have to vocalize or publicize any disapproval you may have.

Saying that you disagree with homosexuality or homosexuals serving is just as bigoted as saying you disagree with the existence of black people or them serving.

Freedom of speech and religion for you stops at the point where somebody says something you find offensive. What I find very interesting about people on the left is how intolerant they get while biatching about how intolerant everyone else is.


You know, I have a friend who keeps Kosher. Personally, I find those rules to be pointless and arbitrary, but I figure it's her own business. That's Freedom of Religion.

Now, if I came across a guy who not only kept Kosher but insisted America's Moral Health relied on everyone else keeping Kosher as well, and started political campaigns on keeping pork out of all school lunches or banning cheeseburger ads from television shows that innocent children might see and making sure Federal tax dollars didn't ever go to support shellfish, that would tell me two things:
1> Some assholes don't understand what Freedom of Religion means, and
2> That guy really really desperately craves bacon.
 
2013-09-10 12:39:41 AM  

spongeboob: What the Fark does this paragraph mean
Last week, Monk was supposed to meet with an Air Force investigator tasked with gathering facts about the complaint. But when he arrived, Monk was immediately read his Miranda Rights and accused of providing false statements in a coonversation Monk had with me.

Who is me, is me referring to the author of the article?
Now back to try and read the rest of the article why do I think I am going to have more questions?


Yes, the "me" in question is the author of the article.  The airman had lied about this situation to the author for a previous article the author wrote; this article is about how unfair it is that the airman is facing diciplinary action for lying to the press about Air Force policy and procedure, and how that means christians are being persecuted by the Air Force the way that gays were / are persecuted by "Christians" and they really don't like being treated like that.

/treat others something something like to be treated.
 
2013-09-10 12:58:50 AM  
Are they still doing that mandatory "spiritual fitness" bullshiat at Fort Sam Houston?
 
2013-09-10 01:09:07 AM  

Mr. Titanium: Weaver95: what_now: So basically, this dick freckle was harassing his fellow airmen and when told to knock it off he whined about how his rights to be an asshole for his god were being repressed?

This is why people don't like Christians.

That's my read on it as well. He kept preaching to the point he was affecting unit cohesion and was told to knock it off. Well...religious beliefs are fine and all, bout if your CO says dial it back, you dial it back or else.

He has extreme troubles with homosexuality, but not with the "Thou shalt not kill" part?  God only gave us 10 rules to follow, and NONE of them actually deal with homosexuality.  It would appear "being a Christian' is just an excuse he uses to cover his behavior issues.


Way more than 10 rules to follow actually. Something like 612 if I recall. Easier to ask a Hasidic Jew.
 
2013-09-10 01:27:34 AM  

calufrax: A little off... argument here, but...

Why did they choose to go with a Swedish Air Force insignia bearing Saab Gripen as their photo to illustrate a jet fighter, rather than an aircraft the USAF currently use?


Because Townhall hates America.
 
2013-09-10 02:12:02 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Authoritarian followers are at least half the problem....


Funny you should say that; there's actually two scales covered in Altemeyer's handy PDF....
 
2013-09-10 02:37:03 AM  
"This is why people don't like Christians."

Because all Christians are airmen...yeah, ok.
/not the looniest anti-religious statement I've seen on Fark.
 
2013-09-10 05:51:27 AM  
I knew there was more to it than the Town Hall "article" presented as I have found out in this thread. Doesn't matter though, the religious nuts have their evil Obama hates Christians persecution complex reinforced and that is what matters. The irony that it comes from bearing false witness seems to escape them though.

I really dislike people like this because of their method of operation. They basically are con artists who play on people's faith to push their personal agenda under the guise that it is God's agenda. They act like total assholes in spreading their bastardized version of "faith"; and when someone stands up to them refusing to be bullied, they accuse the person of persecuting them for being Christian and "hating God" (rather than being an asshole, which is what they were called out for.) Then they go around and use it to fool other Christians who wouldn't support such a radical agenda under normal circumstances to join them in "protecting God". When in truth there is no persecution and all it is doing is preventing Christian's from helping the poor by making them de facto political activist pawns for people like the Koch brothers to push an anti-working class agenda.
 
2013-09-10 06:31:01 AM  

super_grass: Being rich is either bad or good, you can't pick both.


Depends on how you got rich, and how you spend it.
 
2013-09-10 08:06:42 AM  
Well, in the military you are GI, government issue, you are property, not a citizen, you don't have rights.


/didn't RTFA
 
2013-09-10 08:21:58 AM  
"Christians have to go into the closet," he said. "We are being robbed of our dignity and respect. We can't be who we are."

That line is just perfect on so many levels that nothing else has to be said.
 
2013-09-10 08:27:33 AM  

cman: Karac: freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.

Yes, they have that right.  But if they choose to exercise that bigotry in public, and in an official capacity, while working for an organization with a stated order to not harass people because of their sexual orientation ... well, then they should expect to have some problems at the office.

Then there is the other problem: POLITICS HAVE NO PLACE IN THE MILITARY

You should not ask and you should not tell.


That sounds like a political stance.
 
2013-09-10 08:40:06 AM  
Good to see that Fark is turning into tumblr lite.
 
2013-09-10 09:34:20 AM  

cman: Karac: freak7: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

People have a right to be against homosexuality for any reason, including religion.

Yes, they have that right.  But if they choose to exercise that bigotry in public, and in an official capacity, while working for an organization with a stated order to not harass people because of their sexual orientation ... well, then they should expect to have some problems at the office.

Then there is the other problem: POLITICS HAVE NO PLACE IN THE MILITARY

You should not ask and you should not tell.


"Sergeant: harassment on the basis of homosexuality is no longer allowed in the US military.  If you are ordered to investigate such harassment, can you follow that order, or will your religious beliefs prevent you from fulfilling your sworn duties?"

You know what - that sounds to me like an excellent question that should be asked.

And as for telling: heterosexuals have 'told' their sexual orientation for the entirety of the existence of the military.  They 'told' it every time they brought a date down to the e-club, or took their girlfriend to an official function, or put a picture of their wife on their desk.  Why shouldn't homosexuals be allowed to do the same?
 
2013-09-10 09:46:09 AM  

lacrossestar83: mitchcumstein1: cameroncrazy1984: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

I'm sorry, I'm not seeing a difference.

Well, then you're an asshole too. The vast majority of people who are religious aren't assholes, and you know it.

This.

/Agnostic


So you don't know if there is a god, but do you believe there is a god? I'm agnostic too, but I'm an atheist.
 
2013-09-10 10:42:09 AM  

RexTalionis: dj_bigbird: Isn't there a Pacman looking graph to describe this?

[farm1.staticflickr.com image 500x318]


It's all about timing.

Well played, sir, well played
 
2013-09-10 11:39:29 AM  
My religion demands that I get to spit gobs of my mucous on your face.  How dare you tell me to turn my back on God?
 
2013-09-10 12:09:36 PM  

HairBolus: NuttierThanEver: Yeah the reports of Airmen being forced to attend "nondenominational" but obviously fundie protestant church services or face a verbal reprimand from Commanding officer is just bullshiat http://www.truth-out.org/archive/item/91383:troops-punished-after-ref u sing-to-attend-evangelical-concert

A lot of people don't understand what "nondenominational" means and think it is something like "all-denominational" - vague enough to be acceptable to all Christian denominations including Catholics and Mormons and maybe even outsiders like Jews or Muslims.

"nondenominational" means not affiliated with any denomination. Most mega churches are "nondenominational" which means they can make up whatever crazy theology they want without it being the accepted teachings of any denomination, and more importantly they get to keep all of their money and don't have to contribute to a parent organization.

Avoid "nondenominational" because they are often crazy and out to take your money.


This. I know from extensive personal experience that "non-denominational" almost always means crazy fundamentalists. The vast majority of the big college campus Christian groups claim to be non-denominational but are actually strict, the Bible must be taken completely literal, fundi nutbags.
 
2013-09-10 01:04:08 PM  

FrancoFile: Ironic considering that it's the service that depends most on science and high-tech.


Ahem....

www.perch-base.org
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-09-10 02:42:20 PM  

Kurmudgeon: "This is why people don't like Christians."

Because all Christians are airmen...yeah, ok.


You say that as if this kind of behavior was unique to the Air Force. It isn't.

/not the looniest anti-religious statement I've seen on Fark.

That's probably because you're fabricating many of them from your own imagination.
 
2013-09-10 03:29:07 PM  

Karac: And as for telling: heterosexuals have 'told' their sexual orientation for the entirety of the existence of the military. They 'told' it every time they brought a date down to the e-club, or took their girlfriend to an official function, or put a picture of their wife on their desk. Why shouldn't homosexuals be allowed to do the same?


because it is icky!  damn gay people, wanting to be treated like normal folks!

/my brother posted this on facebooks a few days ago.  i posted back "yeah, it's getting hard to be a bigot these days".
 
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