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(Townhall)   While fighting for your right to freedom of religion, the Air Force is suppressing it for their members   (townhall.com) divider line 158
    More: Asinine, air forces, freedom of religions, Lackland Air Force Base, base commander, Liberty Institute, Mirandize, fighting  
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2811 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Sep 2013 at 4:47 PM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-09 02:11:55 PM
It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole
 
2013-09-09 02:15:05 PM
Members of the armed forces are the property of the US government.  When told to jump, they need to ask how high.
 
2013-09-09 02:16:23 PM

mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole


I'm sorry, I'm not seeing a difference.
 
2013-09-09 02:17:27 PM
Officials at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio said that Monk and his commander had simply "agreed to disagree," adding "the wing commander said there was no punishment" for Monk's comments. Base officials stated that Monk was relieved of his duties because he was at the end of his assignment - not because of his views on LGBT issues.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/09/06/foxs-todd-starnes-christians- a re-trading-places/195753
 
2013-09-09 02:19:05 PM
Yeah the reports of Airmen being forced to attend "nondenominational" but obviously fundie protestant church services or face a verbal reprimand from Commanding officer is just bullshiat http://www.truth-out.org/archive/item/91383:troops-punished-after-ref u sing-to-attend-evangelical-concert
 
2013-09-09 02:23:28 PM

cameroncrazy1984: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

I'm sorry, I'm not seeing a difference.


Well, then you're an asshole too. The vast majority of people who are religious aren't assholes, and you know it.
 
2013-09-09 02:31:56 PM
More from Stars & Stripes:

http://www.stripes.com/news/airman-opposed-to-gay-marriage-files-com pl aint-after-being-transferred-1.236835

"Monk's attorneys say the airman was reassigned to another base post and eventually barred from unit buildings. They say the moves are in direct violation of military rules governing religious freedoms.

But Air Force officials say that Monk's transfer from the squadron had been planned for months, to close out his two-year assignment there. Training wing spokeswoman Colleen McGee said Monk was not relieved of his position, but instead was informed of his upcoming assignment change in early May.

McGee said Monk was transferred a few weeks ago - about a month before he had expected to move - but only because his replacement arrived ahead of schedule."
 
2013-09-09 02:38:36 PM
Fortunately, Liberty Counsel is on the job.....

mitchcumstein1: Well, then you're an asshole too. The vast majority of people who are religious aren't assholes, and you know it.


Unless your threshold for being an asshole is low enough to also consider most people to be assholes. If instead of using binary is/isn't terms, you consider asshole-nature via relative measure (like the difference between "hot/cold" versus temperature), the more asshole sorts are about equally distributed among the religious and irreligious.

It's the tendency to protofascism that correlates to religiosity, but not all protofascists are inherently assholes themselves; some are merely "following orders" types.
 
2013-09-09 02:43:11 PM
The Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concert that Smith and others were told to attend was headlined by BarlowGirl, a "band of tender-hearted, beautiful young women who aren't afraid to take an aggressive, almost warrior-like stance when it comes to spreading the gospel and serving God," according to the group's web site.

Aggressively, militantly subservient.
 
2013-09-09 02:45:15 PM

mitchcumstein1: cameroncrazy1984: mitchcumstein1: It's freedom of religion, not freedom to be an asshole

I'm sorry, I'm not seeing a difference.

Well, then you're an asshole too. The vast majority of people who are religious aren't assholes, and you know it.


Not from personal experience, I'll tell you that. My entire family is religious and they're all asshole Republicans.
 
2013-09-09 02:47:51 PM

kronicfeld: The Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concert that Smith and others were told to attend was headlined by BarlowGirl, a "band of tender-hearted, beautiful young women who aren't afraid to take an aggressive, almost warrior-like stance when it comes to spreading the gospel and serving God," according to the group's web site.

Aggressively, militantly subservient.

Power bottom.

The whole "army of God" thing has only waxed metaphorical in the last couple hundred years.
 
2013-09-09 03:01:57 PM
I'm so glad I left the military (Army, not Air Farce) before the Evangelicals took over. Getting promoted is political enough as it is. Throw religion on top of that, and you're spending waay too much time kissing ass and not enough doing your actual job.
 
2013-09-09 03:09:27 PM
Isn't there a Pacman looking graph to describe this?
 
2013-09-09 03:15:43 PM

dj_bigbird: Isn't there a Pacman looking graph to describe this?


farm1.staticflickr.com
 
2013-09-09 03:16:31 PM
wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?
 
2013-09-09 03:19:23 PM
No, your freedom of religion isn't being infringed here asspony.  Being Christian does not mean that you have to disagree with homosexuality, and it certainly doesn't mean that you have to vocalize or publicize any disapproval you may have.

Saying that you disagree with homosexuality or homosexuals serving is just as bigoted as saying you disagree with the existence of black people or them serving.
 
2013-09-09 03:21:38 PM

FlashHarry: wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?


I believe so, yes. I'm actually more than a bit concerned at how some of the evangelical death cults have tried to convert members of the US military.
 
2013-09-09 03:27:11 PM
"Last week, Monk was supposed to meet with an Air Force investigator tasked with gathering facts about the complaint. But when he arrived, Monk was immediately read his Miranda Rights and accused of providing false statements in a conversation Monk had with me. "


I don't know about the accusation but during an investigation, everyone verbally interviewed is read Miranda Rights.  That's nothing big.
 
2013-09-09 03:32:26 PM
In the military, don't you only have as much freedom of religion as the military says you have?

Proselytize on your own time, God Squad. You're in uniform - you fight for your country, not your lord.
 
2013-09-09 03:33:21 PM

Weaver95: FlashHarry: wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?

I believe so, yes. I'm actually more than a bit concerned at how some of the evangelical death cults have tried to convert members of the US military.


The fact that the Evangelicals' Vatican is in Colorado Springs and within a laden swallow's flight from the US Air Force Academy hasn't really helped the cadets much, particularly those cadets whose religious beliefs don't include eager anticipation of a war which renders the human race extinct.
 
2013-09-09 03:33:23 PM

UberDave: "Last week, Monk was supposed to meet with an Air Force investigator tasked with gathering facts about the complaint. But when he arrived, Monk was immediately read his Miranda Rights and accused of providing false statements in a conversation Monk had with me. "


I don't know about the accusation but during an investigation, everyone verbally interviewed is read Miranda Rights.  That's nothing big.


Except that a member off the armed forces doesn't have Miranda rights...least ways i never heard of it applying under the UCMJ. I could be wrong about that but...hmm. Interesting.
 
2013-09-09 03:33:57 PM

kronicfeld: Aggressively, militantly subservient.


Sounds familiar....

Authoritarian followers usually support the established authorities in their society, such as government officials and traditional religious leaders. Such people have historically been the "proper" authorities in life, the time-honored, entitled, customary leaders, and that means a lot to most authoritarians. Psychologically these followers have personalities featuring:
1) a high degree of submission to the established, legitimate authorities in their society;
2) high levels of aggression in the name of their authorities; and
3) a high level of conventionalism.
 
2013-09-09 03:38:07 PM
So basically, this dick freckle was harassing his fellow airmen and when told to knock it off he whined about how his rights to be an asshole for his god were being repressed?

This is why people don't like Christians.
 
2013-09-09 03:40:45 PM
I have just as much sympathy for this jackoff as I would for some 1950's era Sergeant who held onto the religiously-infromed view that descendants of Ham shouldn't be allowed to serve in his unit.
 
2013-09-09 03:40:50 PM
Yeah, some of the radical fundies have targeted the AF over the last 20 years.  Ironic considering that it's the service that depends most on science and high-tech.
 
2013-09-09 03:42:20 PM

what_now: So basically, this dick freckle was harassing his fellow airmen and when told to knock it off he whined about how his rights to be an asshole for his god were being repressed?

This is why people don't like Christians.


Reported for calling out farkers not in thread.
 
2013-09-09 03:44:59 PM

what_now: So basically, this dick freckle was harassing his fellow airmen and when told to knock it off he whined about how his rights to be an asshole for his god were being repressed?

This is why people don't like Christians.


That's my read on it as well. He kept preaching to the point he was affecting unit cohesion and was told to knock it off. Well...religious beliefs are fine and all, bout if your CO says dial it back, you dial it back or else.
 
2013-09-09 03:56:42 PM
1993: Gay service members told to 'keep it to themselves'...

2013: Bigots upset they are being told to 'keep it to themselves'...
 
2013-09-09 04:09:39 PM

Weaver95: UberDave: "Last week, Monk was supposed to meet with an Air Force investigator tasked with gathering facts about the complaint. But when he arrived, Monk was immediately read his Miranda Rights and accused of providing false statements in a conversation Monk had with me. "


I don't know about the accusation but during an investigation, everyone verbally interviewed is read Miranda Rights.  That's nothing big.

Except that a member off the armed forces doesn't have Miranda rights...least ways i never heard of it applying under the UCMJ. I could be wrong about that but...hmm. Interesting.


I don't remember the specifics on that - I just know that every time you gave a statement during an investigation you were given the Miranda Rights - and (without looking it up) I don't think they were exactly like civilian Miranda Rights...if that makes any sense.  I gave statements to investigators more than once (just BS stuff that didn't directly involve me) and ever time, they read the Rights.
 
2013-09-09 04:15:36 PM
Better also to disarm in the same way, the precedent of Chaplainships for the army and navy

James Madison
 
2013-09-09 04:17:01 PM
So Christians dont have problems when the Air Force orders them to drop bombs on people, but they DO have problems when the Air Force orders them to accept gay marriage?
 
IP
2013-09-09 04:19:33 PM

FlashHarry: wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?


Yes.
 
2013-09-09 04:20:16 PM

Weaver95: UberDave: "Last week, Monk was supposed to meet with an Air Force investigator tasked with gathering facts about the complaint. But when he arrived, Monk was immediately read his Miranda Rights and accused of providing false statements in a conversation Monk had with me. "


I don't know about the accusation but during an investigation, everyone verbally interviewed is read Miranda Rights.  That's nothing big.

Except that a member off the armed forces doesn't have Miranda rights...least ways i never heard of it applying under the UCMJ. I could be wrong about that but...hmm. Interesting.


They don't have Miranda rights by that specific name, but they do have most of the same rights under section 31 of the UCMJ and various other laws.  I got the official reading a few times when I had to give some statements to a pair of CID guys.  I don't remember there being anything in the papers I had to sign that was any different from what everyone's heard on Law & Order.
 
2013-09-09 04:24:28 PM

vernonFL: So Christians dont have problems when the Air Force orders them to drop bombs on people, but they DO have problems when the Air Force orders them to accept gay marriage?


He wasn't ordered to accept gay marriage.  He was asked if he could keep his junior Airmen from adding in lessons about how gays shouldn't be allowed to serve into the classes they were teaching.
 
2013-09-09 04:25:15 PM
This is the Air Force cracking down on Christians that are targeting members of other religions sites that have been set aside so they may worship (if I remember the story from the Air Force Academy correctly).

It's a secular force, and you have students and enlisted men lying to their superiors about being Christian so they don't get harassed or have their careers scrapped.
 
2013-09-09 04:25:34 PM
If SMSgt Monk tells some airmen who's gay that they're an abomination before God, it's within my freedom of religion to have a private counseling session with SMSgt Monk.

/God, I despise self-serving, disgruntled airmen.
 
2013-09-09 04:26:45 PM
amer-lit-puritan-textbook.wikispaces.com
 
2013-09-09 04:35:11 PM
Damn, should have RTFA, this isn't even that hopeful scenario.

Keep it to yourselves boys and girls.  You're in the military to follow orders and protect the country, not proselytize and kill non-believers.
 
2013-09-09 04:44:46 PM
Wow!  It's a Todd Starnes double feature with this and the greenlight below with the R rated Christian movie.
 
2013-09-09 04:51:11 PM
In short, hurp.
 
2013-09-09 04:52:12 PM
A 19-year Air Force veteran who was relieved of his duties because he disagreed with his openly gay commander over gay marriage is now facing a formal investigation after he told me his story.

[welltheresyourproblem.jpg]

If you're stupid enough to get into a religious discussion about how you think your commander's life choices are fundamentally immoral, you might not be Air Force material.
 
2013-09-09 04:53:50 PM

FlashHarry: wasn't the air force academy in colorado notorious for its proselytizing of cadets?


Yes.

Comeuppance is a biatch ain't it, you UberChristian farktards?

Go to church or I'll find something for you to do, my ass.
 
2013-09-09 04:54:56 PM
In 7 years working as an Army civillian, I've never been to an Army function (Change of command ceremoney, graduation, etc.) that didn't begin and end with a prayer, and whenever some one brings this up in the Commander's "Suggestion box" or whatever, the response is always 'Noted.'
 
2013-09-09 04:55:14 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Members of the armed forces are the property of the US government.  When told to jump, they need to ask how high.


Actually we tend to ask if we really need to jump
 
2013-09-09 04:56:13 PM
Reading the headline and seeing it's a Townhall link I am going to guess: Some asshole in the military is feeling "repressed" because he can't be intolerant to someone who has different views then him.
 
2013-09-09 04:57:26 PM

Corvus: Reading the headline and seeing it's a Townhall link I am going to guess: Some asshole in the military is feeling "repressed" because he can't be intolerant to someone who has different views then him.


*ding* *ding* *ding*
 
2013-09-09 04:59:10 PM

FrancoFile: Yeah, some of the radical fundies have targeted the AF over the last 20 years.  Ironic considering that it's the service that depends most on science and high-tech.


It's also the service that is in control of ICBMs.

Sleep well.
 
2013-09-09 04:59:55 PM
Religion does not give you an alibi.
If you do not have the courage to accept gay marriage you have rejected the principles of Christianity.
Worse, you might be a fundamentalist.
The U.S. military is no place for you in either case.
 
2013-09-09 05:00:10 PM

RexTalionis: Officials at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio said that Monk and his commander had simply "agreed to disagree," adding "the wing commander said there was no punishment" for Monk's comments. Base officials stated that Monk was relieved of his duties because he was at the end of his assignment - not because of his views on LGBT issues.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/09/06/foxs-todd-starnes-christians- a re-trading-places/195753


But how is ClownHall going to play the Christian persecution card now?
 
2013-09-09 05:00:41 PM

Corvus: Corvus: Reading the headline and seeing it's a Townhall link I am going to guess: Some asshole in the military is feeling "repressed" because he can't be intolerant to someone who has different views then him.

*ding* *ding* *ding*


You're not supposed to ring your own bell, you know that, Corvus.

Nonetheless, *ding*.
 
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