phaseolus: So he's more capable of critical self-reflection than Reagan ever could have been, then?
FarkedOver: Debeo Summa Credo: Well, I guess that leaves Kim Jong Un and some farklibs as the only people still stupid enough to think communism isn't a complete disaster.North Korea does not subscribe to Marxism or Communism. They practice Juche.
neversubmit: Does this mean we will end the embargo?
o5iiawah: revrendjim: A quote from a French movie I can't name has stuck with me: In 1917 Russia had a 16th-century economy. Just four decades later they launched the world's first satellite into space.after invading their neighbors, turning their citizens into slaves, seizing the bounty of their labor to run research, starving the populace, and conscripting the scientists into producing rockets and nukes while their own people marched around barefoot, yes...Go them.
jigger: So capitalism has to make a country rich before communism can work? Communism will never work as long as capitalism exists? Is that what you're saying?Yes. You are finally understanding Marxism. Good job man!
As you say, given enough wealth (generated almost certainly by capitalism) in one spot, communism can get a foothold, and grow, and may in fact be what kills the capitalist society. Then, communism can have its way, until all the wealth built up by the capitalists is gone. Since it is a question of using wealth up, instead of creating it, the more slowly a communist society consumes wealth, the longer it can last. That means a communist society has, as a fundamental principle, difficulty in distributing and obtaining the necessary supplies of life. But, there was always a supply of bread and toilet paper, as long as you didn't mind waiting all afternoon to buy the ration of it you were allowed.
The best way to observe collectivism versus capitalism is to take one or more countries, arbitrarily divide them into collectivist and capitalist sides, and compare their results over time. Fortunately for those studying, we have two examples of this: Germany after the war, and Korea.
Germany was split into West Germany and East Germany (the DDR) after WWII. West Germany was capitalist, like other European countries, with more than a little of its structure obtained via the U.S.A. It became a world industrial and financial power. East Germany's government and economy were set up by the USSR, and it became a money-losing, grotesquely polluted, nearly-starving shiathole. After reunification, almost the entire output of the West German economy was absorbed by the effort to clean up and restore East Germany into something it would be reasonable to call Germany. Those efforts, while not as intense any more, continue to this day, and absorb a reasonable amount of the economic and industrial power Germany generates.
Korea was split, with North Korea being a communist Chinese vassal state with considerable autonomy. South Korea was left on its own, with a capitalist economy and representative government. South Korea went on to become a world power both industrially and financially, as West Germany had done. North Korea slipped back a few centuries and is now another shiathole of starving, brainwashed peasants, all apparently compensating, as a country, for the exceptionally small penises of the ruling Kim family.
Given the two examples we have, and that of the USSR collapsing of its own weight, I find it utterly astonishing that someone with access to the Internets can be so uninformed, politically entrenched, delusional, or some combination of those factors as to think that us taking the path of North Korea and East Germany is the correct thing to do. Instead of being productive, we should be a saprophytic economic organism, eking by through sucking the remaining life out of the corpse of the U.S.A? Seriously? That sounds WAY too much like some dystopia pictured in a crappy, preachy Kevin Kostner movie. And THIS is what Marxists want? WTF is wrong with you?
jigger: So capitalism has to make a country rich before communism can work? Communism will never work as long as capitalism exists? Is that what you're saying?
FarkedOver: jigger: So if capitalism and liberal democracy had failed as miserably as communism has, would that be the excuse? We couldn't possible sustain such a robust economic model when those evil communist regimes kept being mean to us for so long!Maybe, just maybe if the working class wasn't shut down at every turn in industrialized nations, socialist revolutions would have occurred there too, but as it is every socialist revolution has occurred in un-industrialized, poor, former imperialist nations. THEN when workers of these nations assert themselves, capitalist nations start oppressing them. It has happened every single time there has been a popular power worker movement throughout history.
cgraves67: ikanreed: neversubmit: Does this mean we will end the embargo?But we still haven't gotten a satisfactory sense of revenge for perceived slights against America's imperial power.As long as a major constituency in a swing state hates the Cuban government, we will embargo Cuba.
If you like these links, you'll love
Come check out what's behind the curtain.
Sign up for the Fark NotNewsletter!
Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.
When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.
Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.
You need to create an account to submit links or post comments.
Click here to submit a link.
Also on Fark
Submit a Link »
Copyright © 1999 - 2017 Fark, Inc | Last updated: Sep 21 2017 05:27:36
Runtime: 0.298 sec (297 ms)