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(Slate)   Might want to dial back your smug a little bit, Tesla owners: Your fancy new ride may actually be no "cleaner" than any run-of-the-mill SUV   (slate.com) divider line 306
    More: Obvious, SUV, Prius, Ford Expedition, cleaner, Model S, IEEE Spectrum  
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9001 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Sep 2013 at 12:42 PM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



306 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-09 10:36:27 AM
Yes, yes, yes, yes, the electricity used to charge the Model S's batteries comes from dirty fossil fuels, you don't have to remind us every second.

/Thank you, corporations that want to see Tesla go the way of AMC, for keeping us infromed.
 
2013-09-09 10:39:33 AM
I wouldn't be buying a Tesla for the environment.  I'd be buying it for me.  I could give a rat's ass what my car does to the environment.
 
2013-09-09 10:42:38 AM
I think anyone who can afford a Tesla can still be smug a out the fact that they have enough money to afford a Tesla.
 
2013-09-09 10:43:41 AM
THE ELECTRIC CAR MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO SUCCEED!

/wonder who the hell paid for THAT little hit piece?
 
2013-09-09 10:44:17 AM
And yet, people still biatch and moan whenever I walk down the street with a lit cigarette.
 
2013-09-09 10:55:30 AM
Good think Tesla kinda thought of that.
 
2013-09-09 10:57:55 AM
People still throwing around Weiss' horseshiat paper? Good lord.
 
2013-09-09 11:08:29 AM
I driven them. I don't care if they burned the equivalent fuel of a 747, I'd still love to have one. It's probably the fastest car I've ever driven, and incredibly impressive in almost every way.
 
2013-09-09 11:24:20 AM
I wonder how many people in West Virginia can afford to own a Tesla....
 
2013-09-09 11:27:40 AM

Cyberluddite: I driven them. I don't care if they burned the equivalent fuel of a 747, I'd still love to have one. It's probably the fastest car I've ever driven, and incredibly impressive in almost every way.


Yep. I think the Tesla is a great starting point in our quest for alternative fueled vehicles. Sure, it takes power to charge them, but that power is not limited to coal burning plants.

What's the petroleum industry coming up with for our future?
 
2013-09-09 11:48:59 AM
Summary of the article: Burning coal is a dirty way to generate electricity.

Thanks for the info, Will.
 
2013-09-09 11:56:22 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: /wonder who the hell paid for THAT little hit piece?


In this case, it's most likely the author's own avarice.  In addition to his ridiculously flawed "TESLAS AREN'T GREEEEN1!!1" article, Weiss has also written articles urging investors to short TSLA.  It doesn't take much insight to recognize that he believed his own horseshiat and tried to profit by shorting Tesla.  Now he needs everyone to cooperate in thinking that they suck.

This is in no way limited to just this one guy.  At the beginning of the year, TSLA was sitting at 30 bucks a share, and about 40 percent of the positions were short, with analysts gloating about the killing they were going to make when Tesla ended up being smoke and mirrors (you want to talk about "smug"...).  Of course today it's at 160 a share, and as it has risen there have been a series of increasingly panicked articles in Forbes Magazine and the like urging everyone to sell sell sell while there is still hoooope.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-09-09 11:56:53 AM

King Something: Yes, yes, yes, yes, the electricity used to charge the Model S's batteries comes from dirty fossil fuels, you don't have to remind us every second.


It's kind of a stupid argument anyway.  The cheap IC engines that cars use are less efficient than than the steam turbines that generate electricity.  Even if 100% of the power used to charge an electric car comes from coal it's still cleaner than a gasoline car.
 
2013-09-09 12:26:08 PM
so the upshot is, we need renewable green methods of generating electricity. well i could have told you that!
 
2013-09-09 12:31:26 PM
Greenlit. It's time to play Tesla thread bingo. Looking forward to "bricked battery" to complete my card.
 
2013-09-09 12:34:37 PM
If you use one of their many and growing solar-powered charging stations...no, no they are not.
 
2013-09-09 12:43:22 PM
Ugh. Another tesla troll article greened? I don't have time today to debunk horse shiat all day. I swear drew must have a bunch of TSLA short positions.
 
2013-09-09 12:48:02 PM
The Tesla can run purely on the smug exuded by its owners.
 
2013-09-09 12:50:24 PM

cameroncrazy1984: If you use one of their many and growing solar-powered charging stations...no, no they are not.


Or live anywhere other than the east coast. And their coal happy grid is a bigger problem that needs to be addressed with or without electric vehicles.
 
2013-09-09 12:50:54 PM
All of those strange metals in the batteries are highly refined and transported, which undoes the BECAUSE NO GAS! aspect of the whole thing.
 
2013-09-09 12:52:03 PM
Nobody's buying a Tesla in order to be "greener". How stupid does the Slate think people are?
 
2013-09-09 12:52:09 PM

Hollie Maea: cameroncrazy1984: If you use one of their many and growing solar-powered charging stations...no, no they are not.

Or live anywhere other than the east coast. And their coal happy grid is a bigger problem that needs to be addressed with or without electric vehicles.


Well, actually where I live we get most of our power from Niagara Falls, I think. I am not sure how much of the east coast gets their power from the plant.
 
2013-09-09 12:52:45 PM
So tesla cars are no good because the US sucks ass at power generation?

Seems like that's not the car's fault.

/phoenix. Tons of solar.


The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: The Tesla can run purely on the smug exuded by its owners.


Well earned smug. Those things are CRAZY fun to drive. Fast as hell too.
 
2013-09-09 12:53:15 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: All of those strange metals in the batteries are highly refined and transported, which undoes the BECAUSE NO GAS! aspect of the whole thing.


Are you sure? Where does the refining plant get their electricity from? How are they transported?
 
2013-09-09 12:53:32 PM
Is this like the similar BS article on the Prius where in their numbers they assumed the Prius owner would only own the Prius for about 2 years (and then I guess throw it into a land fill because they just don't count the environment savings from a new owner) and the SUV owner would own their vehicle for 10+ years?
 
2013-09-09 12:53:37 PM
I thought it was the lithium battery manufacturing that was the dirtiest part of electric cars. I'm not especially for or against electric cars but transparency is always a good thing.
 
2013-09-09 12:54:26 PM
So this is an article pushing for the US to get off of coal technology for generating electricity, cool.  I can support that.  As a rant against electric cars, it's a total failure, none of the math adds up.  But yeah, coal sucks as a fuel source, the sooner we cut it way back in our energy mix, the better.
 
2013-09-09 12:54:52 PM
You're missing the point.  The idea isn't that the car is any more "green" than a traditional vehicle. If it is, that's a bonus.  The main idea is to wean ourselves off of oil dependence.

Sure, the electricity to run your EV might come from a coal plant or what have you.  But inroads are being made every day into sustainable and more environmentally friendly sources of electricity.

It's my hope that EV adoption rates will grow in parallel with increased adoption of greener energy generation.  A man can dream...
 
2013-09-09 12:55:41 PM
Even if it from coal, one would think a power plant would be better on emissions than a vehicle burning gas. I could be wrong.
 
2013-09-09 12:55:42 PM
Well I have solar at my home (love the farkers here who've tole me that's impossible), so if any of you Tesla owners feel guilty you can give me yours.
 
2013-09-09 12:56:11 PM

King Something: Yes, yes, yes, yes, the electricity used to charge the Model S's batteries comes from dirty fossil fuels, you don't have to remind us every second.

/Thank you, corporations that want to see Tesla go the way of AMC, for keeping us infromed.


Notice that anything that actually reduces demand for oil is 'Soshulisms' and therefore evil by default yet?
 
2013-09-09 12:57:27 PM
Safest car on the road, too.
 
2013-09-09 12:57:52 PM
No, it's still cleaner.  Even if the grid power were 100% fossil fuels (which it's not), it's more efficient (and thus easier to limit emissions) to generate that power at one central plant than at 1000s of distributed internal combustion engines.

In any case, this is an argument for increasing the percentage of renewable energy (or at least non-carbon emitting energy, like nuclear) on the grid, not an argument for driving SUVs.
 
2013-09-09 12:58:43 PM
Guys, why haven't we talked about the bricked battery yet?

/N 41, mark your cards
 
2013-09-09 12:59:17 PM
I've only seen one, but I think the Tesla cars are pretty cool. But what a really want is an electric motorcycle that can do half kmsor a little more than half the average kms of IC motorcycles. And doesn't cost a fortune. For the moment I'd settle for this Bulldog, seeing as how diesel is cheaper here and you get more miles to the gallon. I think it would be an awesome commuter bike.
 
2013-09-09 12:59:40 PM
Not as bad as the history of the prius
 
2013-09-09 01:00:50 PM

Bareefer Obonghit: Guys, why haven't we talked about the bricked battery yet?

/N 41, mark your cards


My dad read a story online about a guy who poorly planned his trip from New York to Maine and plugged into a level 1 charger that he thought was a level 2 charger and was stranded in the middle of nowhere so Teslas are horrible cars that will never work.
 
2013-09-09 01:03:16 PM
In May, a market analyst named Nathan Weiss prompted spit-takes throughout the clean-energy world in May with an incendiary post on the financial news site Seeking Alpha.

Oh, good lord.  Seeking Alpha is not a financial news site.  It's a website where anyone can post their poorly reasoned argument for why it's time to buy or sell a stock.  Generally, it boils down a a series of anecdotes which the author has confused with data.

Seeking Alpha is the Yelp of investment advice.  You should only read it for entertainment.
 
2013-09-09 01:04:04 PM
Given that the critics are counting the pollution sources in creating electricity, why aren't these critics also including the pollution sources in extracting and refining gasoline?  If you're going to do a comparison, do it right.

Yes, I drive a Tesla Model S.  And in a place (Ontario) where nuclear and hydro-electric make up a large portion of the power generation mix.  But what I really like is the near-silent acceleration that keeps up with the big V8 engines in the other sport and luxury cars around me.  I hope Musk can realize the dream of the "third-generation" / mainstream-affordable car.  The Model S is just a stepping stone to something much more significant.
 
2013-09-09 01:04:55 PM

Smackledorfer: Even if it from coal, one would think a power plant would be better on emissions than a vehicle burning gas. I could be wrong.


Well, up against a coal plant, it's probably better in some aspects, worse in others.  I wonder where he got his figures for NO and SO2 emissions from power plants.
 
2013-09-09 01:05:21 PM
No subtard (and articletard), driving a Tesla isn't about "smug". That's what your hybrid is for.

Tesla is a real, functional EV with performance that doesn't suck balls. Tesla is the real deal and proves that an EV can be done right. It's what science fiction told me electric cars should be like, just without the flying car part.
 
2013-09-09 01:07:19 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: THE ELECTRIC CAR MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO SUCCEED!

/wonder who the hell paid for THAT little hit piece?


Jesus, this. These farking people are absolutely shameless. I hope that the transparency of this piece is visible to most of the people that read it.
 
2013-09-09 01:07:25 PM

Corvus: Is this like the similar BS article on the Prius where in their numbers they assumed the Prius owner would only own the Prius for about 2 years (and then I guess throw it into a land fill because they just don't count the environment savings from a new owner) and the SUV owner would own their vehicle for 10+ years?


Sorta. TFA actually picks apart the underlying paper, pointing out (e.g.) the paper's lifecycle analysis includes electricity production, but not gasoline production.

I appreciated their link to state-by-state breakdowns of electricity fuel sources. I would have thought that here in NC we'd be more nuculur than 35%.
 
2013-09-09 01:08:06 PM
but don't you dare build any new nuclear plants despite how safe and clean modern designs are, atoms are teh scareee
 
2013-09-09 01:08:12 PM

Glendale: No subtard (and articletard), driving a Tesla isn't about "smug". That's what your hybrid is for.

Tesla is a real, functional EV with performance that doesn't suck balls. Tesla is the real deal and proves that an EV can be done right. It's what science fiction told me electric cars should be like, just without the flying car part.


Funny, SF told me that electric cars would be better than gas cars.

The Model S is great when you compare it to a $40k gas car. Unfortunately it's actually in the same class as $100k gas cars, where it doesn't look so good anymore.
 
2013-09-09 01:09:55 PM
 A horse would be greener.
No seriously. There's not really a "green" way to generate that much energy. Just "Greener" than the last method we used to generate that much energy.
 Yeah I'm insane now but wait 100 years or so and I'll be a genius.
 
2013-09-09 01:09:57 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: The Tesla can run purely on the smug exuded by its owners.


You're thinking of the Prius...

i229.photobucket.com

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-09-09 01:12:15 PM
Of course, the point isn't to be cleaner, the point is to move the pollution out of the California Valleys so that we don't have (more) smog issues.  Because what goes up gets caught in a temperature inversion and stays there forever.  You could increase the total amount of carbon by 10x, and as long as it wasn't being outputted in California, California would be thrilled.

California doesn't care about the environment, they just like being able to breathe.

/And then as mentioned, it's easier to shift the grid than the cars, efficiency from 1 central point, etc, etc, etc so it actually ends up being greener, but that's beside the point.
//Tech and infrastructure aren't quite there yet (Namely, no one's built an efficient car that fits 6'4" 300 lb people comfortably, and getting fast chargers in the apartment complex will be a painfully stupid slap fight), but 10 years from now when my current car falls apart?  We'll see.
 
2013-09-09 01:12:49 PM
After reading the whole article - at least he dials down the stupid there at the end.
 
2013-09-09 01:13:22 PM

vpb: King Something: Yes, yes, yes, yes, the electricity used to charge the Model S's batteries comes from dirty fossil fuels, you don't have to remind us every second.

It's kind of a stupid argument anyway.  The cheap IC engines that cars use are less efficient than than the steam turbines that generate electricity.  Even if 100% of the power used to charge an electric car comes from coal it's still cleaner than a gasoline car.


its cleaner than a conventional gasoline car, but not a hybrid.

I tried a zip code in Ohio, a state where 70% of power comes from coal.

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric_emissions.php

regular hybrids also beat plug-in hybrids in this scenario.
 
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