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(NPR)   Science finally proves you need to take a nap   (npr.org) divider line 55
    More: PSA  
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10719 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Sep 2013 at 8:05 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-08 06:58:04 PM
Not only should we nap in the afternoon we should have segmented sleep and wake in the night
 
2013-09-08 07:25:39 PM

jamspoon: Not only should we nap in the afternoon we should have segmented sleep and wake in the night


Didn't work too well for Kramer.
 
2013-09-08 08:10:59 PM
I knew IT!!!    Told my chief in the Navy and he disagreed, told my boss later and he disagreed, now I don't need to tell anyone because it's true.
 
2013-09-08 08:14:47 PM
The Science is settled!
 
2013-09-08 08:19:50 PM
So the next time a teacher calls you out for snoring, just tell her that you are diligently memorizing the lecture material.
 
2013-09-08 08:20:17 PM
As much as I would like to take a nap on weekend afternoons to extend my nights, I find it is generally an exercise in failure.  No matter how tired I am, it takes me a long time to actually sleep.  If I plan to nap for an hour, I may begin to nod off at roughly 45 minutes.  At that point I have a choice, I commit to the nap and sleep too long and I am groggier than before.  The second option is that I just get back up, and I am groggy from trying to sleep and failing.  I find its better to pop a caffeine pill, eat some fruit and do some light exercise.  This tends to make me feel more energized without messing with my rhythms.
 
2013-09-08 08:23:41 PM
That article was vague as all hell. I know just about as much of the science behind sleep as I did before I read it.
 
2013-09-08 08:24:52 PM

Nubenstein: As much as I would like to take a nap on weekend afternoons to extend my nights, I find it is generally an exercise in failure.  No matter how tired I am, it takes me a long time to actually sleep.  If I plan to nap for an hour, I may begin to nod off at roughly 45 minutes.  At that point I have a choice, I commit to the nap and sleep too long and I am groggier than before.  The second option is that I just get back up, and I am groggy from trying to sleep and failing.  I find its better to pop a caffeine pill, eat some fruit and do some light exercise.  This tends to make me feel more energized without messing with my rhythms.


It actually doesn't take long at all to realize some of the benefits. Closing your eyes and leaning back in your chair for a few minutes can do a lot- there's research that suggests even as little as 90 seconds or so can have an effect.

Laying your head on your desk for 10 minutes in the afternoon could be all you need.
 
2013-09-08 08:28:03 PM
They could have just asked me.
 
2013-09-08 08:29:24 PM

cptjeff: Nubenstein: As much as I would like to take a nap on weekend afternoons to extend my nights, I find it is generally an exercise in failure.  No matter how tired I am, it takes me a long time to actually sleep.  If I plan to nap for an hour, I may begin to nod off at roughly 45 minutes.  At that point I have a choice, I commit to the nap and sleep too long and I am groggier than before.  The second option is that I just get back up, and I am groggy from trying to sleep and failing.  I find its better to pop a caffeine pill, eat some fruit and do some light exercise.  This tends to make me feel more energized without messing with my rhythms.

It actually doesn't take long at all to realize some of the benefits. Closing your eyes and leaning back in your chair for a few minutes can do a lot- there's research that suggests even as little as 90 seconds or so can have an effect.

Laying your head on your desk for 10 minutes in the afternoon could be all you need.


Interesting, I will look more into this.  I find that my mind tends to explode into "overthinking everything about everything" as soon as I try to relax.  I need to research how to quiet my mind during the time I would like to nap.
 
2013-09-08 08:32:04 PM
Sucks, I'm virtually incapable of napping.  Last time I took a nap was late 2004 due to a roommate who f'd my sleep schedule up so bad by staying up all night playing an MMORPG.
 
2013-09-08 08:34:50 PM
Haha, no.  Every time I nap, it's for 3-4 hours, I wake up with a headache, and am not able to fall asleep the same night until 3 am.  Fark naps.
 
2013-09-08 08:34:50 PM
I feel like CRAP
after a NAP.

Although, lately, I've been nodding off in the afternoon. Too bad my employer frowns on this behavior. They prefer that we work 23/7.
 
2013-09-08 08:37:15 PM
Hey guys what's going on? I just work up from my second nap today.
 
2013-09-08 08:47:55 PM
Good article. I fully agree. In fact, I'm napping right now.
 
2013-09-08 08:48:28 PM

gnosis301: Haha, no.  Every time I nap, it's for 3-4 hours, I wake up with a headache, and am not able to fall asleep the same night until 3 am.  Fark naps.


It's called an alarm clock, and you can buy one for as little as $5.
 
2013-09-08 08:54:32 PM

kwame: It's called an alarm clock, and you can buy one for as little as $5.


Which doesn't stop the headaches.
 
2013-09-08 08:58:43 PM

Nubenstein: it takes me a long time to actually sleep. If I plan to nap for an hour, I may begin to nod off at roughly 45 minutes. At that point I have a choice, I commit to the nap and sleep too long and I am groggier than before


After you've been nodding off for a while is when the nap is over.  You dont want deep sleep, just a cat nap.

I usually have about 10 or 15 minutes of weird half-sleep-dreams, then pop to. Good for another 6 hours.

One trick I heard was to hold a ball or set of keys, or whatever when you lie down fo the nap and when you finally drop the ball, that's when it's time to get up.
 
2013-09-08 09:00:59 PM

gnosis301: Haha, no.  Every time I nap, it's for 3-4 hours, I wake up with a headache, and am not able to fall asleep the same night until 3 am.  Fark naps.


I have a similar problem except it doesnt take 3-4 hours.  If I nap (and GOD do I love the idea and occasional feeling of a nap) anything more than 20-30 minutes and I will probably have a headache or at the very least be a grouchy SOB for a while.

I find 20 minutes of actual sleep to be doable without initiating cranky SOB syndrome  (CSS for short) - try it sometime.
 
2013-09-08 09:06:01 PM
Anyone with kids could have told the scientists this.

/wife and I take turns having naps, that way the kids aren't totally left to their own device.
 
2013-09-08 09:07:55 PM

Vega.: Sucks, I'm virtually incapable of napping.  Last time I took a nap was late 2004 due to a roommate who f'd my sleep schedule up so bad by staying up all night playing an MMORPG.


Hey man, if it was a really good MMORPG, then you should have joined in! Fark sleep, play until you die!

/This message brought to you by World Of Warcraft and Mountain Dew. Don't sleep, buy more energy drinks!
 
2013-09-08 09:10:34 PM

gnosis301: kwame: It's called an alarm clock, and you can buy one for as little as $5.

Which doesn't stop the headaches.


And doesn't get you to sleep that night.

I get the same problem. A nap will make it hard for me to get to sleep that night. And night sleep helps me more than nap sleep.
 
2013-09-08 09:15:54 PM

The English Major: jamspoon: Not only should we nap in the afternoon we should have segmented sleep and wake in the night

Didn't work too well for Kramer.


Still, it was less detrimental to his sleep than having a giant red neon light outside his window.
 
2013-09-08 09:19:10 PM

gnosis301: kwame: It's called an alarm clock, and you can buy one for as little as $5.

Which doesn't stop the headaches.


Which come from 4 hour afternoon naps.
 
2013-09-08 09:21:47 PM

Nubenstein: cptjeff: Nubenstein: As much as I would like to take a nap on weekend afternoons to extend my nights, I find it is generally an exercise in failure.  No matter how tired I am, it takes me a long time to actually sleep.  If I plan to nap for an hour, I may begin to nod off at roughly 45 minutes.  At that point I have a choice, I commit to the nap and sleep too long and I am groggier than before.  The second option is that I just get back up, and I am groggy from trying to sleep and failing.  I find its better to pop a caffeine pill, eat some fruit and do some light exercise.  This tends to make me feel more energized without messing with my rhythms.

It actually doesn't take long at all to realize some of the benefits. Closing your eyes and leaning back in your chair for a few minutes can do a lot- there's research that suggests even as little as 90 seconds or so can have an effect.

Laying your head on your desk for 10 minutes in the afternoon could be all you need.

Interesting, I will look more into this.  I find that my mind tends to explode into "overthinking everything about everything" as soon as I try to relax.  I need to research how to quiet my mind during the time I would like to nap.


Actually, one of the better Mythbuster "crossover" episodes was the proving by experiment what the boat captains of the Deadliest Catch knew all along: It was much better to take a 20-minute naps every 6 hours for a 30-hour shift, than to not take any naps at all.  The captains said that they played around with the timing of the naps over the years and found this to be the sweet spot.
 
2013-09-08 09:24:36 PM
I don't and basically can't nap.  I have a hard time sleeping at night.

If I get 4 hours of sleep I'm good to go for 20 hours.
 
2013-09-08 09:25:57 PM
This is of course why we should keep out doctors in training up and moving for 24+ hours a shift. Because there is no important information they need to be retaining...
 
2013-09-08 09:26:32 PM

blue_2501: Nubenstein: cptjeff: Nubenstein: As much as I would like to take a nap on weekend afternoons to extend my nights, I find it is generally an exercise in failure.  No matter how tired I am, it takes me a long time to actually sleep.  If I plan to nap for an hour, I may begin to nod off at roughly 45 minutes.  At that point I have a choice, I commit to the nap and sleep too long and I am groggier than before.  The second option is that I just get back up, and I am groggy from trying to sleep and failing.  I find its better to pop a caffeine pill, eat some fruit and do some light exercise.  This tends to make me feel more energized without messing with my rhythms.

It actually doesn't take long at all to realize some of the benefits. Closing your eyes and leaning back in your chair for a few minutes can do a lot- there's research that suggests even as little as 90 seconds or so can have an effect.

Laying your head on your desk for 10 minutes in the afternoon could be all you need.

Interesting, I will look more into this.  I find that my mind tends to explode into "overthinking everything about everything" as soon as I try to relax.  I need to research how to quiet my mind during the time I would like to nap.

Actually, one of the better Mythbuster "crossover" episodes was the proving by experiment what the boat captains of the Deadliest Catch knew all along: It was much better to take a 20-minute naps every 6 hours for a 30-hour shift, than to not take any naps at all.  The captains said that they played around with the timing of the naps over the years and found this to be the sweet spot.


When I worked in the oilfield they also said this.  A 20 minute nap is a great enhancer.
 
2013-09-08 09:30:03 PM

namegoeshere: This is of course why we should keep out doctors in training up and moving for 24+ hours a shift. Because there is no important information they need to be retaining...


I've always wondered about this. To understand so much about human biology, it seems odd to purposefully create the chance for error by exhaustion.
 
2013-09-08 09:35:34 PM
This isn't really about napping, but part of TFA was talking about what happens if you don't sleep.

If you want to read about a really weird disease (caused by prions, as if they weren't weird enough on their own), check out  fatal familial insomnia. It's... pretty much what it says on the tin:

"FFI has no known cure and involves progressively worsening insomnia, which leads to hallucinations, delirium, and confusional states like that of dementia. The average survival span for patients diagnosed with FFI after the onset of symptoms is 18 months "
 
2013-09-08 09:43:29 PM
I've been working crappy shifts for two years now, a lot of closing and then openings, meaning getting off work at 11 PM and going back to work at 5 AM. Before that, I used to get 8 hours of sleep, no matter what. Never took naps, they were alien to me.

Now? Oh boy. Even if I don't work and somehow get a solid 6 or 7 hours of sleep, by 3 PM, I'm just about dead to the world. An hour nap can help, although I'll be tired for awhile afterward, but sometimes I'll end up turning my alarm off without really waking up, and then wake up 4 hours later, 10 times more tired than when I went to sleep.

*sigh* I just want a regular sleep schedule. I've been getting very temperamental the past few months, finally realized it's because I don't sleep for shiat anymore. Fully rested, I'm just about as docile as they come.
 
2013-09-08 09:46:23 PM

Nubenstein: cptjeff: Nubenstein: As much as I would like to take a nap on weekend afternoons to extend my nights, I find it is generally an exercise in failure.  No matter how tired I am, it takes me a long time to actually sleep.  If I plan to nap for an hour, I may begin to nod off at roughly 45 minutes.  At that point I have a choice, I commit to the nap and sleep too long and I am groggier than before.  The second option is that I just get back up, and I am groggy from trying to sleep and failing.  I find its better to pop a caffeine pill, eat some fruit and do some light exercise.  This tends to make me feel more energized without messing with my rhythms.

It actually doesn't take long at all to realize some of the benefits. Closing your eyes and leaning back in your chair for a few minutes can do a lot- there's research that suggests even as little as 90 seconds or so can have an effect.

Laying your head on your desk for 10 minutes in the afternoon could be all you need.

Interesting, I will look more into this.  I find that my mind tends to explode into "overthinking everything about everything" as soon as I try to relax.  I need to research how to quiet my mind during the time I would like to nap.


I have this problem too. Try rhythmic breathing while repeating a word or short phrase in your head. It helps your brain focus instead of jumping around like some deranged crack whore.
 
2013-09-08 09:50:39 PM
Let me sleep on it.  For 26 minutes.  Then it's off to the gym.
 
2013-09-08 09:50:40 PM

kwame: namegoeshere: This is of course why we should keep out doctors in training up and moving for 24+ hours a shift. Because there is no important information they need to be retaining...

I've always wondered about this. To understand so much about human biology, it seems odd to purposefully create the chance for error by exhaustion.


I've wondered too, and so I did a search and came across this NY Times article. A few years ago, new rules were put into place that were supposed to end super-long shifts like that. And a widescale study was conducted, looking at the rate of errors. Interestingly, the rate did not drop in the wake of the additional rules. (In full disclosure, an earlier controlled study showed a substantial increase in errors with the long shifts.)

The article suggests that the remaining problem has to do with the decreased continuity of care. With shorter shifts comes more shift changes while patients are there, and from the sound of it, handoffs are often not very good.  namegoeshere originally said (sarcastically) "because there is no important information they need to be retaining", but that's only half of the issue: it doesn't help the patient if Doctor A retains additional information because they are less exhausted, but that information isn't conveyed to Doctor B.

The article presents things like computerized records and orders -- which can catch things like fatal drug interactions which can be missed by people, regardless of fatigue (the article gives a real-world example of such an interaction that a significant majority of doctors don't know about) -- which can help with handoff errors. The overall message is that such a system might prevent more errors in care than not having long hours.
 
2013-09-08 09:58:29 PM

kwame: namegoeshere: This is of course why we should keep out doctors in training up and moving for 24+ hours a shift. Because there is no important information they need to be retaining...

I've always wondered about this. To understand so much about human biology, it seems odd to purposefully create the chance for error by exhaustion.


Probably also factors into the extremely high rate of drug abuse among MDs.
 
2013-09-08 10:09:17 PM
evaned

I remember the NY Times article and was angry with it.  If I recall correctly, the possible explanation "We shortened the work hours but not the work load" never occurred to anyone.

/ former health care HR
// yes, medical students & residents are ridden hard and put away wet for cheap labor
/// would bet dollars to donuts they didn't shorten the corresponding workload
 
2013-09-08 10:11:07 PM

evaned: kwame: namegoeshere: This is of course why we should keep out doctors in training up and moving for 24+ hours a shift. Because there is no important information they need to be retaining...

I've always wondered about this. To understand so much about human biology, it seems odd to purposefully create the chance for error by exhaustion.

I've wondered too, and so I did a search and came across this NY Times article. A few years ago, new rules were put into place that were supposed to end super-long shifts like that. And a widescale study was conducted, looking at the rate of errors. Interestingly, the rate did not drop in the wake of the additional rules. (In full disclosure, an earlier controlled study showed a substantial increase in errors with the long shifts.)

The article suggests that the remaining problem has to do with the decreased continuity of care. With shorter shifts comes more shift changes while patients are there, and from the sound of it, handoffs are often not very good.  namegoeshere originally said (sarcastically) "because there is no important information they need to be retaining", but that's only half of the issue: it doesn't help the patient if Doctor A retains additional information because they are less exhausted, but that information isn't conveyed to Doctor B.

The article presents things like computerized records and orders -- which can catch things like fatal drug interactions which can be missed by people, regardless of fatigue (the article gives a real-world example of such an interaction that a significant majority of doctors don't know about) -- which can help with handoff errors. The overall message is that such a system might prevent more errors in care than not having long hours.


Very interesting. Thanks for the research. I'm impressed.
 
2013-09-08 10:33:40 PM
I started making sure that I have 6-8 hrs of sleep every night since I started my Phd. My retention, performance and creativity have drastically improved since my Masters and UGrad days. I did take a 20 min nap today and re energized me but that is a new side benefit of actually sleeping a full night now. When I was terrifically deprived when I was working and education I just wasn't doing what I was capable of. Still working on getting a solid rhythm tho. Variable schedule throws me. I have light blocking curtains which drastically improved me staying asleep.
 
2013-09-08 10:36:15 PM
I appreciate science taking an interest in my personal welfare but I wish they'd just send me an email not publish a whole paper on it for the public.....
 
2013-09-08 11:03:05 PM
my.telegraph.co.uk
cdn0.cosmosmagazine.com
www.leafandbeanstrip.com
 
2013-09-08 11:09:10 PM
I've found that a 20-30 minute nap is great. I can fall asleep in almost any situation. I just tell myself that I'm going to sleep and most of the time I do. The trick is not napping too long. If you nap too long, you'll wake up worse off than you were before. Fortunately, like I said before, a short nap is all you need.
 
2013-09-08 11:21:12 PM

TomD9938: Nubenstein: it takes me a long time to actually sleep. If I plan to nap for an hour, I may begin to nod off at roughly 45 minutes. At that point I have a choice, I commit to the nap and sleep too long and I am groggier than before

After you've been nodding off for a while is when the nap is over.  You dont want deep sleep, just a cat nap.

I usually have about 10 or 15 minutes of weird half-sleep-dreams, then pop to. Good for another 6 hours.

One trick I heard was to hold a ball or set of keys, or whatever when you lie down fo the nap and when you finally drop the ball, that's when it's time to get up.


My trick is to start to nod off while my wife is nattering away about the same farking work stories she has already told me 5 times.  It usually takes here about 20 or 30 minutes to realize that I've dozed off, at which point she gets indignant about being ignored.  At that point I'm refreshed enough to go back outside and finish what I wanted to get done for the weekend.
 
2013-09-08 11:25:50 PM
I find that if I go to bed "early", which for me is before 11ish, I will wake up at 2 am and not be able to sleep again. I usually find time for a 20 minute nap during the day, and then maybe another hour nap after work, and then stay up later. Seems to work for me, or at least I have just gotten used to it.
 
2013-09-08 11:31:56 PM

Coastalgrl: I started making sure that I have 6-8 hrs of sleep every night since I started my Phd. My retention, performance and creativity have drastically improved since my Masters and UGrad days. I did take a 20 min nap today and re energized me but that is a new side benefit of actually sleeping a full night now. When I was terrifically deprived when I was working and education I just wasn't doing what I was capable of. Still working on getting a solid rhythm tho. Variable schedule throws me. I have light blocking curtains which drastically improved me staying asleep.


What are you studying?

When I (tried) to go through, the culture of no-sleep was very strong.
Classes all morning, TA all afternoon, topped off with mandatory all-night test grading parties. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
Everyone had to have everything in 12 hours or less. Face-time in the lab was also important, but don't look busy or stressed, as the PI wants their team to be relaxed and under control. Furthermore, a lot of indispensable knowledge is passed on incidentally at the bar, so don't skip drinks night or your career will suffer. Not chipper and ready for seminar next day? What are you, defective or something?

/ No, I didn't last long.
// 8 hours of sleep daily now.
/// Suck it, ambitions.
 
2013-09-08 11:42:32 PM

Nubenstein: cptjeff: Nubenstein: As much as I would like to take a nap on weekend afternoons to extend my nights, I find it is generally an exercise in failure.  No matter how tired I am, it takes me a long time to actually sleep.  If I plan to nap for an hour, I may begin to nod off at roughly 45 minutes.  At that point I have a choice, I commit to the nap and sleep too long and I am groggier than before.  The second option is that I just get back up, and I am groggy from trying to sleep and failing.  I find its better to pop a caffeine pill, eat some fruit and do some light exercise.  This tends to make me feel more energized without messing with my rhythms.

It actually doesn't take long at all to realize some of the benefits. Closing your eyes and leaning back in your chair for a few minutes can do a lot- there's research that suggests even as little as 90 seconds or so can have an effect.

Laying your head on your desk for 10 minutes in the afternoon could be all you need.

Interesting, I will look more into this.  I find that my mind tends to explode into "overthinking everything about everything" as soon as I try to relax.  I need to research how to quiet my mind during the time I would like to nap.


Mindfulness meditation. It's worked wonders for me.
 
2013-09-09 12:46:58 AM
For those people who can't nap, the best time for a nap is around 20 minutes after lunch or so.
Just when the endorphins hit the system. Your body will naturally want to relax then.

As others have stated, even a few minutes seem to recharge the battery.

In the western culture, afternoon means 12pm all the way to dusk. However when you see other cultures, they differentiate early afternoon (siesta time) from late afternoon. While originally people thought it was the sleep cycles of agricultural societies that have a lot of heat, studies showed that the body's natural rythm is to slow down during early afternoon.

For people who get headaches, aim for early afternoon, and reduce the period of sleep.
On weekends, it's not uncommon for me to have the occasional after-lunch nap take 1-1.5 hours and wake up not feeling groggy.

/if you want to get technical about it, check out Muslim prayer times for your location as they revolve around the length of the day and angle of the sun.
//you want to sleep after the second prayer time but wake up before the third
///human nature FTW
 
2013-09-09 03:29:56 AM

jamspoon: Not only should we nap in the afternoon we should have segmented sleep and wake in the night


That's how I sleep naturally once I worked on my own schedule and could sleep whenever I wanted. When I'm stressed, working too much, or traveling I don't have the short wake cycle in the main sleep but instead sleep through. I still shoot for the nap though.

Not having to get up at any specific time is the best thing of self employment.
 
2013-09-09 04:43:35 AM
Yeah, I'll remember that the next time I'm having an anxiety dream about not being able to get my bags packed and my plane's about to leave, or that I'm running a race and missed the turnaround point and can't retrace my steps.

Welcome to my banal subconscious. Seriously, I love sleeping. Naps, too.
 
2013-09-09 04:53:08 AM

jamspoon: Not only should we nap in the afternoon we should have segmented sleep and wake in the night


Funny; I'm doing that right now.

Went to bed at 10:45, woke up at 3:00 (50 minutes ago), and will drift back off in 30 minutes or so, then wake up refreshed probably at 8:00.
 
2013-09-09 07:57:39 AM

E5bie: Coastalgrl: I started making sure that I have 6-8 hrs of sleep every night since I started my Phd. My retention, performance and creativity have drastically improved since my Masters and UGrad days. I did take a 20 min nap today and re energized me but that is a new side benefit of actually sleeping a full night now. When I was terrifically deprived when I was working and education I just wasn't doing what I was capable of. Still working on getting a solid rhythm tho. Variable schedule throws me. I have light blocking curtains which drastically improved me staying asleep.

What are you studying?

When I (tried) to go through, the culture of no-sleep was very strong.
Classes all morning, TA all afternoon, topped off with mandatory all-night test grading parties. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
Everyone had to have everything in 12 hours or less. Face-time in the lab was also important, but don't look busy or stressed, as the PI wants their team to be relaxed and under control. Furthermore, a lot of indispensable knowledge is passed on incidentally at the bar, so don't skip drinks night or your career will suffer. Not chipper and ready for seminar next day? What are you, defective or something?

/ No, I didn't last long.
// 8 hours of sleep daily now.
/// Suck it, ambitions.


Jesus, what was your PhD in?
 
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