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(STLToday)   Giving your child allowance is child abuse   (stltoday.com) divider line 69
    More: Stupid, child abuses, financial literacy, professor emeritus, adaptations, Cooperative Extension Service  
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9008 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Sep 2013 at 5:11 PM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-08 04:57:34 PM
I don't think it's child abuse. Maybe spoiling, but not abuse. Our kids can earn money for certain chores, but some are just mandatory. Our emphasis is on saving the money too. My eleven year old managed to scrape together enough of his earnings to buy a tablet with a keyboard; he got it off Amazon today. It was neat. I said, "okay, it's ordered, hand over the money." Now I'm off to the strip club without having to beg the gas station clerk for making change so I can get some ones when I buy that 40 of Colt45 with a hundy.  What? You weren't going to read the rest of this post anyways.
 
2013-09-08 05:14:40 PM
I have a teacher friend point out the economic disparity in this area. At one high school a kid with $500 is a drug dealer, at another five miles away it's their weekly allowance.
 
2013-09-08 05:18:01 PM
I'm 45, and I get $10,000/mo allowance. But I'm also several hundred thousand dollars in debt.
 
2013-09-08 05:18:27 PM
The article is a lot of bla bla stupid crap and tries to bring Newtonian Economics into something that is as simple as can mommy and daddy (or just mommy as in most cases) afford to do the teaching that goes along with an allowance...........That is the only factor that should be a deciding thought, when they are old enough they can get jobs mowing lawns, baling hay and such.  Being a drug dealer is no way to go through life.  Being a stingy cheap hole isn't either.
 
2013-09-08 05:19:31 PM
It depends on the kid.  I give my kids a healthy allowance but they have to buy all of their school clothes and supplies with that.  One of the kids will spend it immediately and the others hoard the money.  None of them have lots of clothes though because when it's "their" money those $200 shoes don't look so appealing.

Not sure that any of them are learning a useful life skill.
 
2013-09-08 05:19:56 PM
When your kid asks for an allowance, what should you do?
Should you open your wallet and shell out a few bucks? Or are you the tough-love type who will say, "Stop begging, kid! I feed you, and that's enough. Go wash the dishes."
One of those is a wrong-headed parent, but there's debate as to which. There's some evidence that the nice parent with the open wallet might be doing more harm than the big cheapskate.


How about both? A small allowance and you have to work to get more. That's what i got until slightly after my 2nd digit age.

You could almost deduct one's political alignment based on their choice/opinion.
 
2013-09-08 05:21:26 PM
Like I am going to take advice from the guy who does the hot pocket jokes.
 
2013-09-08 05:21:40 PM

OregonVet: I don't think it's child abuse. Maybe spoiling, but not abuse. Our kids can earn money for certain chores, but some are just mandatory. Our emphasis is on saving the money too. My eleven year old managed to scrape together enough of his earnings to buy a tablet with a keyboard; he got it off Amazon today. It was neat. I said, "okay, it's ordered, hand over the money." Now I'm off to the strip club without having to beg the gas station clerk for making change so I can get some ones when I buy that 40 of Colt45 with a hundy.  What? You weren't going to read the rest of this post anyways.


Excellent parenting! You've not only taught your son the value of a dollar, but a lesson about the velocity of money and the need to support the performing arts. Bravo, Dad!
 
2013-09-08 05:22:17 PM
shiat, just realized that was jim gaffigan, not gallager.

disregard.
 
2013-09-08 05:23:02 PM
I like to cover all my bases and just give my kid $1 every time I hit him, $5 if I get to use a belt.
 
2013-09-08 05:24:24 PM
I had a very meager allowance, but also did (some) babysitting, subbed on a paper route a couple times, and washed dishes for the Rotary club dinner at my church once a week.  Got my first job at 16... I had a period after that where I was bad with money but I know it's because my bf's family had lots of money and I got used to their mentality of spending all the time. After we broke up I had to put the brakes on that again but at least I never ended up with a ton of debt like he did.
 
2013-09-08 05:25:57 PM
Mira cabron, I allow you to live.
 
2013-09-08 05:26:12 PM
The biggest problem is that children aren't being taught basic home finance.  They don't understand how savings work, how to pay taxes, how to write a check, how credit cards work, how credit scores are calculated, how to set a budget, how a mortgage works, etc.

I'm not convinced that chores-for-money or getting a set allowance are by themselves sufficient to educate a child in any of this.  I'd love to see school teach it but barring that, parents really need to teach their children how household finance works.
 
2013-09-08 05:26:43 PM
Help, help!  My parents are giving me money!  Make it stop!

/Yeah, I doubt that has ever been said.
 
2013-09-08 05:27:04 PM
My original Nintendo Entertainment System was paid for with money from recycled aluminum cans my brother and I spent the summer collecting off the side of the interstate.  Unfortunately, it didn't make me better with money when I grew up :/
 
2013-09-08 05:27:13 PM
My allowance when I was a kid started at age 6.. $0.10 for every year old you were. Sixty cents in 1981 would buy about two candy bars. The allowance was docked or eliminated for failure to do chores, and augmented for taking on extra chores.
 Most of my friends got $1-5 for doing nothing.
In the long run, I don't think it made a difference one way or the other. We all ended up getting jobs/paper routes as soon as we could, so we could start earning "real money", and we all wasted it on comic books and Run DMC tapes.
 
2013-09-08 05:33:00 PM
There are people who give kids and 'unconditional' allowance?
 
2013-09-08 05:34:17 PM

oldwolf49: The article is a lot of bla bla stupid crap and tries to bring Newtonian Economics into something that is as simple as can mommy and daddy (or just mommy as in most cases) afford to do the teaching that goes along with an allowance...........That is the only factor that should be a deciding thought, when they are old enough they can get jobs mowing lawns, baling hay and such.  Being a drug dealer is no way to go through life.  Being a stingy cheap hole isn't either.


Sitting them down and telling them something about how money works isn't something that eats into the monthly budget. Leisure time, sure. But not budget. They can all "afford" it but not everyone is willing to spend 30 minutes on a Sunday telling their kids that writing down how much you spend on/get from what/who is a smart thing to do because it is easier to keep track of money that way.

Hell, just talk to them about budgeting while watching television/gardening/knitting/gaming. That way it won't even completely cut into leisure time.
 
2013-09-08 05:35:19 PM
At the extreme end an "allowance" is child abuse.

There are some Fark regulars who are trust-fund brats who who didn't bother with college because they didn't need a job and even at age 40 video games are a major portion of their life.
 
2013-09-08 05:35:22 PM
I think doing all the usual kid stuff to slowly accumulate money taught me more about long term planning and goal setting than finance. I'm so happy the days of saving for months to afford a N64 are over. Would've taken longer if I didn't also save my lunch money.
 
2013-09-08 05:35:30 PM
saynsumthn.files.wordpress.com

"Of course it is, that money belongs to us."
 
2013-09-08 05:35:44 PM

Mr. Eugenides: It depends on the kid.  I give my kids a healthy allowance but they have to buy all of their school clothes and supplies with that.  One of the kids will spend it immediately and the others hoard the money.  None of them have lots of clothes though because when it's "their" money those $200 shoes don't look so appealing.

Not sure that any of them are learning a useful life skill.


Think about that last part. I'd say they're learning a VERY important life skill. One that may keep them from getting buried under a crushing debt for stupid crap years from now.
 
2013-09-08 05:39:35 PM

OregonVet: I don't think it's child abuse. Maybe spoiling, but not abuse. Our kids can earn money for certain chores, but some are just mandatory. Our emphasis is on saving the money too. My eleven year old managed to scrape together enough of his earnings to buy a tablet with a keyboard; he got it off Amazon today. It was neat. I said, "okay, it's ordered, hand over the money." Now I'm off to the strip club without having to beg the gas station clerk for making change so I can get some ones when I buy that 40 of Colt45 with a hundy.  What? You weren't going to read the rest of this post anyways.


You know the club will break that for you if you want.  But I applaud your sense on buying the 40 from outside the hiked up prices inside the club.
 
2013-09-08 05:41:02 PM
Abuse?

Seriously?

I can understand saying it's less than optimal, but once you start calling it abuse is when I stop taking you seriously.
 
2013-09-08 05:43:03 PM
My child has learned that if you want money, you must launch an expedition into the couch.
 
2013-09-08 05:43:52 PM

theknuckler_33: There are people who give kids and 'unconditional' allowance?


Probably. I wouldn't go so far as to say mine was "unconditional," but it was never tied to chores. If I had told my dad to kiss my ass when he asked me to cut the grass or clean the bathroom, I'm sure the allowance would have stopped. It was never anyhing like 25 cents for the bathroom, 5 for the dishes, 50 for the grass, though.

Chores were done because I was part of a family and I had to do my share to help the family. I got an allowance because I was part of the family.
 
2013-09-08 05:44:08 PM

meanmutton: The biggest problem is that children aren't being taught basic home finance.  They don't understand how savings work, how to pay taxes, how to write a check, how credit cards work, how credit scores are calculated, how to set a budget, how a mortgage works, etc.

I'm not convinced that chores-for-money or getting a set allowance are by themselves sufficient to educate a child in any of this.  I'd love to see school teach it but barring that, parents really need to teach their children how household finance works.


I agree completely. I'm still struggling to manage my money, since I grew up in a house where money was never, ever discussed. The one thing that probably saved me was a math teacher who sat us all down and taught us about credit cards, mortgages and compound interest.
 
2013-09-08 05:47:17 PM
Then my kids are the least abused in history!!!!

Nah, we tried it, you do these chores (with handy chart) you get money...

They didn't, so we don't.

Yeah, I know,

Hey, making this up as we go along.
 
2013-09-08 06:04:28 PM
How about you just treat children like real members of the household and let them participate in household spending just like the adults -- you know, where you coordinate with each other to pay for expensive things taking into consideration of the household budget and your combined needs and desires, and everyone has access to a small amount of money for uncoordinated spending?
 
2013-09-08 06:04:41 PM

FTFA:

Mandell cites a study that shows kids who got a regular allowance emerged from high school understanding less about money than kids who got no allowance at all, or those who were paid for doing chores.
Well, that's what you get for citing a "study" (unnamed, eh?) that only interviewed 5 families and relied only on a 25 question survey.


My snowflake gets a buck a year, divided by three. The first third is the "blow it" money: spend it on anything you want (no junk food, tho). Second third is saved for a goal that is written down at least one week in advance, and last third is snowflake's contribution to the college fund (I fund the rest).
It didn't take long for the tyke to figure out how to divide by three, estimate tax, and discover that x.99 is a lie. More importantly that most toys are crap and having to save for something means most popular toys aren't worth the wait.

Best part: when we go to a store, and snowflake says, "can you buy me that?" Then I say, "use your own money." No more begging, no more whining.

i651.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-08 06:07:04 PM
STEAL the money, like my folks taught me.
 
2013-09-08 06:08:34 PM
TFA didn't really differentiate between a little spending money and an open wallet policy. It also did not say if the kids who got an allowance were expected to contribute at home or were not required to lift a finger. I would think that both of these are points worth addressing.
 
2013-09-08 06:10:15 PM

lizyrd: Chores were done because I was part of a family and I had to do my share to help the family. I got an allowance because I was part of the family.


This. You don't pay your spouse to do the dishes and they don't pay you to mow the lawn. Everyone should participate in household chores and everyone should have access to household resources. In addition to demonstrating generally good behavior and communication skills it also provides a plethora of organic opportunities to teach budgeting, sharing, maintenance, work ethic and all sorts of other skills required to keep a household in order.
 
2013-09-08 06:13:16 PM
When it got to the point where it showed the difference in scores were not statistically significant, I pretty much stopped reading.
Our kids are 5 and 2, they don't really get an allowance yet because they hate going to the store and buying things almost as much as Ms Buzzcut and I do.
 
2013-09-08 06:14:16 PM
I grew up in the 70s and 80s. I didn't get an allowance. I did get paid for certain chores, but then my chores were a bit larger and more complex than the average suburban kids' chores. Mowing the lawn was an all-day job, since it involved just over six acres of field and front yard. For the first several years of this being my job at home, I did it with a push mower.

I also had to chop wood, operate a rototiller, rake the lawn (just the front and around the house, thankfully), trim trees, rake leaves, shovel an extensive driveway (which sucked before it was blacktopped, when it was just stones and frozen dirt), and do other things that left me with a bad back and screwed-up knees. But I did earn about $5.00 per task. The lawn would sometimes earn me $20 if I caught my parents on the right day.

Other chores were part of room & board- Garbage, cleaning my room, etc. Little chores were not paying chores.

I don't give a shiat about money. I acknowledge it's useful for paying my rent and bills, but materialism is not my thing. People who worship wealth make me physically ill.
 
2013-09-08 06:15:41 PM
We're in the middle on this. We give enough spending money that they can have an age appropriate social life. If they want a thing that they do not need, though, we make them a list of jobs and they earn the money for the thing. This is above and beyond the daily chores that they do just because they live here and we had to let the house elf go.
 
2013-09-08 06:17:55 PM

theknuckler_33: There are people who give kids and 'unconditional' allowance?


Yes.  They are fiscally irresponsible people that pass their fiscally irresponsible traits onto their children.

/allowance isn't the problem
 
2013-09-08 06:21:32 PM
When I was a kid my allowance was the return deposit on empty pop bottles. A carton of eight bottles at ten cents a bottle was a fortune for me. I spent most of it on fireworks or Garbage Pail Kids stickers. Luckily, my family went through a lot of pop and the grocery store was across the street.
 
2013-09-08 06:26:00 PM
So another person with no children calling something child abuse again?
 
2013-09-08 06:28:51 PM
The article's a piece of slow news day fluff, but I really liked his illustration of correlation isn't causation. Men who wear hard hats to work are more likely to be injured on the job than guys who wear business suits to work.  I'm gonna remember that one.
 
2013-09-08 06:31:47 PM
Our kids get $2/week for doing chores expected as members of the family (we're too cheap to pay $1/year).  If they do additional chores (yard work, etc.) they get extra.  Son learned a few years back if he wanted an ipod he had to work and save to buy it himself.  We even went through the whole comparison shopping thing so he could learn how to get the best deal.  He worked his butt off learning to mow the lawn so he could buy that ipod.  Just recently he bought himself a tablet he'd been researching.  Daughter was the same way, she saved her allowance and other money so that she could buy her own ipod.  Having to work for what you want is a life lesson not enough kids learn (I see it every day since I'm a teacher too.)
 
2013-09-08 06:34:38 PM
In 1994 at age 13 I started getting am allowance when my mom remarried and our house grew from 3 to 6 and we needed shiat done around the house. It was $5. For $5, they got the bathroom cleaned, the kitchen swept and mopped(which on a farm that should have been enough on its own), and the litter box emptied for a cat I couldn't stand. While I had a sibling who got off cleaning the other bathroom alone, and yet another who got just vacuuming. When I was in college, guess what? I had learned about money, and my siblings got off of doing chores and just got the money. The house went to shiat. FAST. I couldn't bring a girl home on the weekends when they were gone because it was so god damn filthy it was embarrassing. So I would come home and clean like mad hoping to get laid, who h lasted all of four attempts before I said fark this and just started going to their place instead.

But to the point of the article, yes, a mix of chores and allowance works very well.
 
2013-09-08 06:36:08 PM
Allowance = child abuse?  Oh, this is too easy.
www.nivmedia.com
 
2013-09-08 06:37:14 PM
safetycap:

My snowflake gets a buck a year, divided by three. The first third is the "blow it" money: spend it on anything you want (no junk food, tho). Second third is saved for a goal that is written down at least one week in advance, and last third is snowflake's contribution to the college fund (I fund the rest).
It didn't take long for the tyke to figure out how to divide by three, estimate tax, and discover that x.99 is a lie. More importantly that most toys are crap and having to save for something means most popular toys aren't worth the wait.

Best part: when we go to a store, and snowflake says, "can you buy me that?" Then I say, "use your own money." No more begging, no more whining.



Impressive. I don't know if I could afford to give my kids an allowance that big.
 
2013-09-08 06:37:49 PM

ZeroCorpse: Mowing the lawn was an all-day job, since it involved just over six acres of field and front yard. For the first several years of this being my job at home, I did it with a push mower.


Yeah, I'm calling bullshiat. You didn't mow 6+ acres with a damn push mower.

People who worship wealth make me physically ill.

No, you do not actually get physically ill.

/exaggerate much?
 
2013-09-08 06:50:35 PM

lizyrd: theknuckler_33: There are people who give kids and 'unconditional' allowance?

Chores were done because I was part of a family and I had to do my share to help the family. I got an allowance because I was part of the family.


This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
2013-09-08 07:10:45 PM
meh - I had an allowance when I was a kid.  50 cents a week or so.  I got a whole dollar for washing a car.  I don't think I was abused.

I bought comic books with that money, now that was stupid
 
2013-09-08 07:19:10 PM
It should be a requirement that every article written about child-raising is prefaced with the number of children for which the author is the primary caregiver.
 
2013-09-08 07:26:06 PM

the_chief: I'm 45, and I get $10,000/mo allowance. But I'm also several hundred thousand dollars in debt.


That buys a lot cards to put in your spokes.
 
2013-09-08 07:28:56 PM
Some parents give kids an allowance to make them. I didn't give my kids an allowance because they were good for nothing.
 
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