If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Vancouver Sun)   Judge says government can't seize your motorcycle just because you drive it over the speed limit   (blogs.vancouversun.com) divider line 92
    More: Interesting, civil forfeiture, Ducati  
•       •       •

9027 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Sep 2013 at 2:00 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



92 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-09-07 01:34:32 PM  
Let's hope tis reasonable Canadian jurisprudence makes it's way south of the border
 
2013-09-07 01:41:49 PM  

ArkAngel: Let's hope tis reasonable Canadian jurisprudence makes it's way south of the border


Fat chance.  Even if the rider is acquitted, the property is still guilty of the crime.  Hence, forfeiture.
 
2013-09-07 01:43:01 PM  
The ruling seems reasonable.  I'm somewhat against civil forfeiture in general, it just seems like it's open to too much potential abuse.  It should really require a criminal conviction and a ruling from a judge for you to lose your property.

I do hope this guy loses his license for a while though, driving around at 3x the speed limit on a motorcycle is going to get somebody killed.
 
2013-09-07 02:02:47 PM  
Dumb move Canada. How will police make all that lovely money if they can't seize property when they feel like it?
 
2013-09-07 02:04:30 PM  
Eh.  fark crotch rocket riders who drive that fast.  Go to a track day if you want to show off.
 
2013-09-07 02:05:20 PM  
If you can do 200 kph on something as maneuverable as a motorcycle, how do you even get caught?
 
2013-09-07 02:11:02 PM  

jjorsett: If you can do 200 kph on something as maneuverable as a motorcycle, how do you even get caught?


Radio and/or helicopters.
 
2013-09-07 02:11:05 PM  
Oh, good. Everybody gets to keep their cars, SUVs, pickups, etc. Because let's face it, everybody but your grandparents speed. And your grandparents are the dangerous drivers. They cause road rage for miles behind them.

As an environmentally concerned Canadian, I am rather of two minds on this, but hey, I guess it is a good thing, like keeping the lights on. Canada is a country with many tough climates and we need all the power we can get. You can't walk except in Big City cores. A car is as necessary to life as coffee and doughnuts. You'd freeze your brass monkeys off without it (Vancouver excepted).
 
2013-09-07 02:12:13 PM  

jjorsett: If you can do 200 kph on something as maneuverable as a motorcycle, how do you even get caught?


crazy talk from a non-rider.
/sooner or later you gotta turn. and for the most part a lot slower then a car.
//bikes are not more maneuverable as car. they can thread though smaller spaces is all.
 
2013-09-07 02:14:20 PM  
Its ok for the police break the law via avoiding presenting evidence of criminal activity to a Judge in order to take peoples stuff, but when you want to confiscate the police equipment when they violate you, well tuff shiat.
 
2013-09-07 02:14:53 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: The ruling seems reasonable.  I'm somewhat against civil forfeiture in general, it just seems like it's open to too much potential abuse.  It should really require a criminal conviction and a ruling from a judge for you to lose your property.

I do hope this guy loses his license for a while though, driving around at 3x the speed limit on a motorcycle is going to get somebody killed.


North Carolina is the only US state that requires that.
 
2013-09-07 02:22:46 PM  
I blame the metric system. 200 km/h? 60 km/h? This confuses people. If they'd just stick with standards like how many cubits per fortnight, we wouldn't have these problems.
 
2013-09-07 02:24:14 PM  

brantgoose: Oh, good. Everybody gets to keep their cars, SUVs, pickups, etc. Because let's face it, everybody but your grandparents speed. And your grandparents are the dangerous drivers. They cause road rage for miles behind them.

As an environmentally concerned Canadian, I am rather of two minds on this, but hey, I guess it is a good thing, like keeping the lights on. Canada is a country with many tough climates and we need all the power we can get. You can't walk except in Big City cores. A car is as necessary to life as coffee and doughnuts. You'd freeze your brass monkeys off without it (Vancouver excepted).


This isn't just Joe Blow doing 70 in a 65. Civil forfeiture only occurs with gross speeding in Canuckistan, 50+KPH over the limit if I recall correctly. At that speed, yes you should have your shiat confiscated as you could easily kill someone at that speed.
 
2013-09-07 02:25:21 PM  

bigbobowski: jjorsett: If you can do 200 kph on something as maneuverable as a motorcycle, how do you even get caught?

crazy talk from a non-rider.
/sooner or later you gotta turn. and for the most part a lot slower then a car.
//bikes are not more maneuverable as car. they can thread though smaller spaces is all.


I learned that fact at the Bristol Speed Test ran last year. The bike, while facing concrete walls, was very slow. But then again a professionally driven 5.0 Mustang with a trick suspension was slow compared to the real race cars.
 
2013-09-07 02:27:13 PM  
And for those wondering, this piece of trash was doing the equivalent of 125 in a 35.
 
2013-09-07 02:27:25 PM  

ComaToast: I blame the metric system. 200 km/h? 60 km/h? This confuses people. If they'd just stick with standards like how many cubits per fortnight, we wouldn't have these problems.


44,094,488 cubits/fortnight (I'm surprised Google knew that one)
 
2013-09-07 02:30:16 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: ComaToast: I blame the metric system. 200 km/h? 60 km/h? This confuses people. If they'd just stick with standards like how many cubits per fortnight, we wouldn't have these problems.

44,094,488 cubits/fortnight (I'm surprised Google knew that one)


I'm now upset at my convert app on my phone for not having this as a unit of measure.
 
2013-09-07 02:30:21 PM  
So I guess he doesn't want a pickle.
 
2013-09-07 02:42:24 PM  

jjorsett: If you can do 200 kph on something as maneuverable as a motorcycle, how do you even get caught?


He's a Canadian, they 'prolly just asked him to stop nicely.
 
2013-09-07 02:44:39 PM  

jayphat: And for those wondering, this piece of trash was doing the equivalent of 125 in a 35.


And was caught doing it 4 times

I love this bit.
""The only evidence that was before the Court of unlawful activity was that the defendant was operating the Ducati on four occasions when he exceeded the posted speed limit. There is no evidence of any behaviour of the defendant in operating the Ducati on those days other than speeding, nor is there any evidence that a pedestrian or other vehicle was at risk of harm because of the defendant's actions," Bowden wrote.

So I can break the law if no one else is on the road and no one got hurt.  I am only guilty if someone got hurt.  And I can do it more than once.
 
2013-09-07 02:45:22 PM  
jayphat:

This isn't just Joe Blow doing 70 in a 65. Civil forfeiture only occurs with gross speeding in Canuckistan, 50+KPH over the limit if I recall correctly. At that speed, yes you should have your shiat confiscated as you could easily kill someone at that speed.

You could easily kill someone at much lower speeds as well, Newton.
 
2013-09-07 02:54:01 PM  

theflatline: jayphat: And for those wondering, this piece of trash was doing the equivalent of 125 in a 35.

And was caught doing it 4 times

I love this bit.
""The only evidence that was before the Court of unlawful activity was that the defendant was operating the Ducati on four occasions when he exceeded the posted speed limit. There is no evidence of any behaviour of the defendant in operating the Ducati on those days other than speeding, nor is there any evidence that a pedestrian or other vehicle was at risk of harm because of the defendant's actions," Bowden wrote.

So I can break the law if no one else is on the road and no one got hurt.  I am only guilty if someone got hurt.  And I can do it more than once.


He still gets fined or has his license suspended or whatever. He just can't have his bike stolen forfeited.
 
2013-09-07 02:57:08 PM  

whither_apophis: Dumb move Canada. How will police make all that lovely money if they can't seize property when they feel like it?


Oh look, some drugs were hidden in the trunk.

Of course the motorcycle has a trunk! Now what color should our new armored vehicle come in?
 
2013-09-07 02:58:04 PM  

Jormungandr: jjorsett: If you can do 200 kph on something as maneuverable as a motorcycle, how do you even get caught?

He's a Canadian, they 'prolly just asked him to stop nicely.


I wouldnt think they cared how nicely he stopped, so long as he stopped.
 
2013-09-07 03:06:37 PM  

jjorsett: If you can do 200 kph on something as maneuverable as a motorcycle, how do you even get caught?


I had a friend that got caught doing like 130 in a 50 or something like that on a bike.

When the cop pulled him over he said, "Why did you stop?"
 
2013-09-07 03:07:57 PM  

RINO: theflatline: jayphat: And for those wondering, this piece of trash was doing the equivalent of 125 in a 35.

And was caught doing it 4 times

I love this bit.
""The only evidence that was before the Court of unlawful activity was that the defendant was operating the Ducati on four occasions when he exceeded the posted speed limit. There is no evidence of any behaviour of the defendant in operating the Ducati on those days other than speeding, nor is there any evidence that a pedestrian or other vehicle was at risk of harm because of the defendant's actions," Bowden wrote.

So I can break the law if no one else is on the road and no one got hurt.  I am only guilty if someone got hurt.  And I can do it more than once.

He still gets fined or has his license suspended or whatever. He just can't have his bike stolen forfeited.


I highly doubt this will be his last offense at that speed. When he gets caught doing it for the tenth time, then can we have his bike forfeited?
 
2013-09-07 03:08:53 PM  

MNguy: You could easily kill someone at much lower speeds as well, Newton.


Right, so the punishment for 1 kph over should be exactly the same as 200 kph over.
 
2013-09-07 03:11:53 PM  
I hope our local cops don't start trying this shiat.  But I wouldn't put it past them.  "You were going 28 MPH in a 25 zone, get out of the car."
 
2013-09-07 03:12:07 PM  
Just two years ago, the province brought in legislation allowing for administrative forfeitures, meaning that the government doesn't have to go in front of a judge to take a suspect's property when it's worth less than $75,000. All the Civil Forfeiture Office has to do is publish a notice in a newspaper or the B.C. Gazette, and if the owner doesn't file a dispute within a set time, the property is automatically forfeited.

WTF Canada?

You used to be cool.
 
2013-09-07 03:15:08 PM  

theflatline: jayphat: And for those wondering, this piece of trash was doing the equivalent of 125 in a 35.

And was caught doing it 4 times

I love this bit.
""The only evidence that was before the Court of unlawful activity was that the defendant was operating the Ducati on four occasions when he exceeded the posted speed limit. There is no evidence of any behaviour of the defendant in operating the Ducati on those days other than speeding, nor is there any evidence that a pedestrian or other vehicle was at risk of harm because of the defendant's actions," Bowden wrote.

So I can break the law if no one else is on the road and no one got hurt.  I am only guilty if someone got hurt.  And I can do it more than once.


No, You'll still get speeding tickets/reckless driving and points on your license or lose your license. There is a difference between drunkenly juggling chainsaws in the middle of an open field with nobody around and doing the same thing in a crowded movie theatre. They just can't unreasonably seize your property.
 
2013-09-07 03:16:17 PM  

OgreMagi: I hope our local cops don't start trying this shiat.  But I wouldn't put it past them.  "You were going 28 MPH in a 25 zone, get out of the car."


If you were doing 95 in a 25 like this asshole, you should expect that exact response.
 
2013-09-07 03:16:26 PM  

OgreMagi: I hope our local cops don't start trying this shiat.  But I wouldn't put it past them.  "You were going 28 MPH in a 25 zone, get out of the car."


You might want to read this story about the same BS happening in America.
 
2013-09-07 03:17:43 PM  

wumpus: theflatline: jayphat: And for those wondering, this piece of trash was doing the equivalent of 125 in a 35.

And was caught doing it 4 times

I love this bit.
""The only evidence that was before the Court of unlawful activity was that the defendant was operating the Ducati on four occasions when he exceeded the posted speed limit. There is no evidence of any behaviour of the defendant in operating the Ducati on those days other than speeding, nor is there any evidence that a pedestrian or other vehicle was at risk of harm because of the defendant's actions," Bowden wrote.

So I can break the law if no one else is on the road and no one got hurt.  I am only guilty if someone got hurt.  And I can do it more than once.

No, You'll still get speeding tickets/reckless driving and points on your license or lose your license. There is a difference between drunkenly juggling chainsaws in the middle of an open field with nobody around and doing the same thing in a crowded movie theatre. They just can't unreasonably seize your property.


Its not unreasonable to seize your property for driving your vehicle that far over the limit, for the fourth time.
 
2013-09-07 03:20:06 PM  

jayphat: Its not unreasonable to seize your property for driving your vehicle that far over the limit, for the fourth time.


dl.dropboxusercontent.com
 
2013-09-07 03:20:35 PM  

theflatline: jayphat: And for those wondering, this piece of trash was doing the equivalent of 125 in a 35.

And was caught doing it 4 times

I love this bit.
""The only evidence that was before the Court of unlawful activity was that the defendant was operating the Ducati on four occasions when he exceeded the posted speed limit. There is no evidence of any behaviour of the defendant in operating the Ducati on those days other than speeding, nor is there any evidence that a pedestrian or other vehicle was at risk of harm because of the defendant's actions," Bowden wrote.

So I can break the law if no one else is on the road and no one got hurt.  I am only guilty if someone got hurt.  And I can do it more than once.


He was not found not guilty.  The speeding violation was a different case and there is no reason to believe he was not found guilty of it. Had he been found not guilty of speeding, the province would not have attempted to seize his bike. Since he was found guilty, however, the province tried to seize the object with made it possible for him to endanger other road users.

The key information in understanding the judge's decision is contained in the paragraph that immediately follows the one you chose to quote:
"Even though Dery was zooming along at more than three times the posted speed limit, he was travelling on a long, straight stretch of Willis Point Road near Victoria in sunny, dry weather and there were no pedestrians or other vehicles in sight."

In other words, he was guilty of speeding, but did not endanger others. That is why the judge ruled his bike could not be seized. His bike was involved in a speeding violation for which he automatically received a very hefty fine and lost his licence. His bike, however, was not involved in an act that endangered others and that is why it could not be seized.
 
2013-09-07 03:22:44 PM  
I think that if the cops seize your assets, they should be used to fund the educational system or something not cop-related.  Otherwise, there is a strong temptation to abuse power for gain.
 
2013-09-07 03:28:37 PM  

Billy Bathsalt: I think that if the cops seize your assets, they should be used to fund the educational system or something not cop-related.  Otherwise, there is a strong temptation to abuse power for gain.


Some municipalities have exactly that kind of rule set up to prevent abuse.  The cops found a way around it.  They turn the assets over to the Feds, who have a revenue sharing program with local law enforcement.
 
2013-09-07 03:29:24 PM  
Civil forfeiture law is probably some of the most despicable parts of the legal system in North America, including the monstrous drug law.
 
2013-09-07 03:30:09 PM  

jayphat: OgreMagi: I hope our local cops don't start trying this shiat.  But I wouldn't put it past them.  "You were going 28 MPH in a 25 zone, get out of the car."

If you were doing 95 in a 25 like this asshole, you should expect that exact response.


Still haven't figured out how to convert metric to archaic, have you ?

Let me help: 200kmh = 124.27mph and 60km/h =  37.28mph.

Is it your belief that private property should be seized even when no one but its user is being endangered ?
 
2013-09-07 03:32:43 PM  

Phil Moskowitz: Civil forfeiture law is probably some of the most despicable parts of the legal system in North America, including the monstrous drug law.


I put it right up there with paramilitary SWAT teams serving no-knock warrants in the middle of the night.

To the wrong house.

Resulting in the murder of an innocent homeowner.
 
2013-09-07 03:33:24 PM  

capt.hollister: jayphat: OgreMagi: I hope our local cops don't start trying this shiat.  But I wouldn't put it past them.  "You were going 28 MPH in a 25 zone, get out of the car."

If you were doing 95 in a 25 like this asshole, you should expect that exact response.

Still haven't figured out how to convert metric to archaic, have you ?

Let me help: 200kmh = 124.27mph and 60km/h =  37.28mph.

Is it your belief that private property should be seized even when no one but its user is being endangered ?


If you look up thread instead of attacking me, you'll see I already posted the actual speeds. I was making a comparison to the 25mph post.
 
2013-09-07 03:36:24 PM  

Billy Bathsalt: I think that if the cops seize your assets, they should be used to fund the educational system or something not cop-related.  Otherwise, there is a strong temptation to abuse power for gain.


You don't say?
 
2013-09-07 03:37:19 PM  

brantgoose: Oh, good. Everybody gets to keep their cars, SUVs, pickups, etc. Because let's face it, everybody but your grandparents speed. And your grandparents are the dangerous drivers. They cause road rage for miles behind them.

As an environmentally concerned Canadian, I am rather of two minds on this, but hey, I guess it is a good thing, like keeping the lights on. Canada is a country with many tough climates and we need all the power we can get. You can't walk except in Big City cores. A car is as necessary to life as coffee and doughnuts. You'd freeze your brass monkeys off without it (Vancouver excepted).


I'm mostly in agreement with you, except I have a vendetta against motorcycles after living on a main route for them for the last four years (I didn't know in advance or I would NEVER have bought this house). Take them all away, I say... or at least mandate that quieter exhaust like they have in Europe.
 
2013-09-07 03:39:16 PM  

BullBearMS: Phil Moskowitz: Civil forfeiture law is probably some of the most despicable parts of the legal system in North America, including the monstrous drug law.

I put it right up there with paramilitary SWAT teams serving no-knock warrants in the middle of the night.

To the wrong house.

Resulting in the murder of an innocent homeowner.


Well I was talking about actual law, but yeah, that's much worse.
 
2013-09-07 03:43:49 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I do hope this guy loses his license for a while though, driving around at 3x the speed limit on a motorcycle is going to get somebody killed.


static.seton.com

Piles of bodies everywhere. Won't someone please think of the children?
 
2013-09-07 03:57:36 PM  

Phil Moskowitz: BullBearMS: Phil Moskowitz: Civil forfeiture law is probably some of the most despicable parts of the legal system in North America, including the monstrous drug law.

I put it right up there with paramilitary SWAT teams serving no-knock warrants in the middle of the night.

To the wrong house.

Resulting in the murder of an innocent homeowner.

Well I was talking about actual law, but yeah, that's much worse.


Well, that's a pretty specific example of what goes wrong with no-knock warrants, but it happened within a hundred miles of my house.

A father was home sleeping with his girls in the middle of the night while his other half was at work when a SWAT team mistakenly burst into his home and gunned him down.

No-knock warrants and asset forfeiture laws are the two most retarded things to come out of the war on drugs.

They both need to go.
 
2013-09-07 03:59:07 PM  

BullBearMS: A father was home sleeping with his girls in the middle of the night while his other half was at work when a SWAT team mistakenly burst into his home and gunned him down.


I don't know how any one of those officers ever puts on a uniform again. I'd end up at the bottom of a bottle dry clicking a revolver at myself.
 
2013-09-07 04:00:27 PM  
It should be the same with guns.
 
2013-09-07 04:02:19 PM  

BullBearMS: Phil Moskowitz: BullBearMS: Phil Moskowitz: Civil forfeiture law is probably some of the most despicable parts of the legal system in North America, including the monstrous drug law.

I put it right up there with paramilitary SWAT teams serving no-knock warrants in the middle of the night.

To the wrong house.

Resulting in the murder of an innocent homeowner.

Well I was talking about actual law, but yeah, that's much worse.

Well, that's a pretty specific example of what goes wrong with no-knock warrants, but it happened within a hundred miles of my house.

A father was home sleeping with his girls in the middle of the night while his other half was at work when a SWAT team mistakenly burst into his home and gunned him down.

No-knock warrants and asset forfeiture laws are the two most retarded things to come out of the war on drugs.

They both need to go.


Yes, but was it a poor neighborhood? Because if so he was probably guilty of something. Maybe he had a gang tattoo or smoked weed, so there ya go.
 
2013-09-07 04:04:17 PM  

jjorsett: If you can do 200 kph on something as maneuverable as a motorcycle, how do you even get caught?


Few of the people that buy those bikes have the skill set to ride them at any where close to their maximum capabilities.  The ones that do, probably don't get caught very often.  Youtube is loaded with examples.
 
Displayed 50 of 92 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report