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(Maui News)   Historians investigate what happened to 29 airmen and 4 sailors missing since the attack on Pearl Harbor, plan to display their names at the USS Arizona memorial. Fark: Japanese airmen and sailors, that is   (mauinews.com) divider line 154
    More: Interesting, USS Arizona, Pearl Harbor, Japanese, Daniel Martinez  
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4112 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Sep 2013 at 11:29 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-07 08:11:43 AM  
Really?  That's what you took away from that?
 
2013-09-07 09:19:10 AM  

thamike: Really?  That's what you took away from that?


This.

And they would be displayed at the visitor center/museum, not the memorial.


Been there...

Moving.
 
2013-09-07 10:32:58 AM  
We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......
 
2013-09-07 10:35:37 AM  

b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......


Both should be buried in the loser section
 
2013-09-07 11:32:13 AM  
I never believe anyone who says let me be honest with you or to tell you the truth
 
2013-09-07 11:35:47 AM  

b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......


Than the Japanese?! Did the confederates rape and kill a bunch of Chinese people, conduct experiments on POWs, and force civilians to commit mass suicide? Because that would have made them just as bad as the Japanese.
 
2013-09-07 11:37:03 AM  
my take on this "im ok with it".

Twelve years ago I found myself with no where to really be for Thanksgiving and ended up in Honolulu for the week.   It had been a few months since the 9/11 attacks and the 60th Anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attacks was a week away. Both events shaped and drastically changed American Policy and the lives of its citizens.  Two terrible tragedies, one very fresh, the other not even a memory to most but still in the very recent past.

I went to Pearl Harbor that week to give my respects and satisfy my history nerd desires.  They were setting up for the big 60th Anniversary ceremony next week, tents, tables, chairs, portable potties, podiums...In-between all of that i saw something that moved me greatly and won't likely forget.   Large groups of very old American men and very old Japanese men hugging and laughing, sharing a drink and crying, a lot.  Just 60 years after taking up arms against each other.

by the time of the 60th anniversary of 9/11 I'll be dead.   If I'm not, i plan on being in Manhattan to see some hugging and crying amongst men and women who took up arms against each other.
 
2013-09-07 11:38:13 AM  
And I'm sure we'd extend the same courtesy to the fallen German soldiers of WWII as well.
/And if we wouldn't, would someone please explain why not?
 
2013-09-07 11:40:08 AM  

Likwit: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Than the Japanese?! Did the confederates rape and kill a bunch of Chinese people, conduct experiments on POWs, and force civilians to commit mass suicide? Because that would have made them just as bad as the Japanese.


How many millions of black people did the Japanese enslave for generations?

How many committed treason against their own country?
 
2013-09-07 11:42:00 AM  

Likwit: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Than the Japanese?! Did the confederates rape and kill a bunch of Chinese people, conduct experiments on POWs, and force civilians to commit mass suicide? Because that would have made them just as bad as the Japanese.


I imagine he's referring to traitors being worse than foreign attackers.

But since you mention it, read up on the Confederate POW camp at Andersonville. Every bit as bad as Nazi concentration camps. There are photos of Northern POWs... awful.
 
2013-09-07 11:42:54 AM  

b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......


Not even close.  Stop believing the anti-Confederate hype and get educated on the Imperial Japanese armed forces of WW2.
The memorials for the Confederate soldiers?
-Built by the people they fought for.
-Not built by the people they fought against.
Your argument is illogical.
 
2013-09-07 11:48:59 AM  

Dhusk: Likwit: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Than the Japanese?! Did the confederates rape and kill a bunch of Chinese people, conduct experiments on POWs, and force civilians to commit mass suicide? Because that would have made them just as bad as the Japanese.

How many millions of black people did the Japanese enslave for generations?

How many committed treason against their own country?


Oh man, I need popcorn.
 
2013-09-07 11:49:33 AM  

b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......


Meet me out back and we'll have a discussion about that ...
 
2013-09-07 11:49:50 AM  

brimed03: Likwit: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Than the Japanese?! Did the confederates rape and kill a bunch of Chinese people, conduct experiments on POWs, and force civilians to commit mass suicide? Because that would have made them just as bad as the Japanese.

I imagine he's referring to traitors being worse than foreign attackers.

But since you mention it, read up on the Confederate POW camp at Andersonville. Every bit as bad as Nazi concentration camps. There are photos of Northern POWs... awful.


Really?  "Every bit as bad" is institutionalized murder factories that killed millions as a part of an official government policy?

I forget -- how many millions were intentionally killed at Andersonville?
 
2013-09-07 11:49:54 AM  

brimed03: Likwit: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Than the Japanese?! Did the confederates rape and kill a bunch of Chinese people, conduct experiments on POWs, and force civilians to commit mass suicide? Because that would have made them just as bad as the Japanese.

I imagine he's referring to traitors being worse than foreign attackers.

But since you mention it, read up on the Confederate POW camp at Andersonville. Every bit as bad as Nazi concentration camps. There are photos of Northern POWs... awful.




The applying conditions at Camp Sumter ( Andersonville) was due in large part to Gen Grants actions. He ordered the ending to the prisoner exchanges. He figured they benefited the south and did nothing for his army. With infurstucture gone it was hard to feed the prisoners. Couple that with the hook worm epidemic running thru the camp anemia and malnutrition is to be expected.
 
2013-09-07 11:50:04 AM  
I'm good with this. Maybe if we start publicly honoring the casualties of war on both sides, we'll think twice before demonizing others and rushing to war.

/'murica! No japs/nips/krauts/eye-tals/vc/reds/ragheads need apply. Kill em all, let God sort em out
//yes, I know we didn't start some of those wars. Yes, I know some of them needed to be fought. Yes, I know depersonalizing makes the "job" easier. Maybe it shouldn't be,easier, though?
 
2013-09-07 11:50:08 AM  

One Bad Apple: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Both should be buried in the loser section


Tell the dead farks buried on the winning section that they won. See if that does them any good
 
2013-09-07 11:50:29 AM  
Capitalism. Pearl Harbor is visited by many Japanese. They are just meeting the demands of the customer base.
 
2013-09-07 11:50:43 AM  

Dhusk: Likwit: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Than the Japanese?! Did the confederates rape and kill a bunch of Chinese people, conduct experiments on POWs, and force civilians to commit mass suicide? Because that would have made them just as bad as the Japanese.

How many millions of black people did the Japanese enslave for generations?

How many committed treason against their own country?


The Confederacy only enslaved black people for an absolute maximum of 4 years.

The United States on the other hand, yep generations and generations.
 
2013-09-07 11:52:56 AM  
Anti-confederate hype?  War of Northern Aggression much?  Traitors are worse than imperialists.
 
2013-09-07 11:53:33 AM  

b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......


7/10, only because you got responses already.
 
2013-09-07 11:54:54 AM  

Likwit: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Than the Japanese?! Did the confederates rape and kill a bunch of Chinese people, conduct experiments on POWs, and force civilians to commit mass suicide? Because that would have made them just as bad as the Japanese.


The Confederates have platoons in China? No wonder the South was lost, the ranks were stretched thin.

One of the best war movies out there: "Tora! Tora! Tora!"
 
2013-09-07 11:57:27 AM  

mcsey: Traitors are worse than imperialists.


People who want to govern themselves in defiance of the present order are worse than those who wish to forcibly govern others in defiance of the present order?

I think you forgot to carry the 1 in your moral calculus.
 
2013-09-07 11:58:48 AM  

Fallout Boy: One Bad Apple: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Both should be buried in the loser section

Tell the dead farks buried on the winning section that they won. See if that does them any good


It sure does, their deaths meant others lived.
 
2013-09-07 12:07:49 PM  

Mentalpatient87: Dhusk: Likwit: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Than the Japanese?! Did the confederates rape and kill a bunch of Chinese people, conduct experiments on POWs, and force civilians to commit mass suicide? Because that would have made them just as bad as the Japanese.

How many millions of black people did the Japanese enslave for generations?

How many committed treason against their own country?

Oh man, I need popcorn.


Hey, don't forget the butter and don't bogart it all.

/jokereatingpopcorn.gif
 
2013-09-07 12:08:46 PM  

Dhusk: Likwit: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Than the Japanese?! Did the confederates rape and kill a bunch of Chinese people, conduct experiments on POWs, and force civilians to commit mass suicide? Because that would have made them just as bad as the Japanese.

How many millions of black people did the Japanese enslave for generations?

How many committed treason against their own country?


Yup. Committing treason against your country is totally comparable to institutionalizing sex slavery; murdering tens of thousands of Filipino civilians in cold blood; and burying POWs up to their necks, force-feeding them feces, and then decapitating them.

You're a magnificent troll, sir.
 
2013-09-07 12:09:52 PM  
I've visited a few memorials in northern Egypt. It was very power to walk through the German, Italian and English memorials.

Looked for German surname "Lentz".

The Italian memorial is beautiful and privately built by an Italian veteran after he made his fortune in business.
 
2013-09-07 12:10:17 PM  
I'm OK with this, also.  It's been over a long time and our attitudes toward each other changed a long time ago.  If the guys who fought against one another can get together, shake hands and drink toasts to one another, I think the later generations can let it go.  I've read of U.S. bomber crews having reunions and inviting German fighter aces to join them.  If they can do it, can't we?
 
2013-09-07 12:13:23 PM  

Dhusk: Likwit: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Than the Japanese?! Did the confederates rape and kill a bunch of Chinese people, conduct experiments on POWs, and force civilians to commit mass suicide? Because that would have made them just as bad as the Japanese.

How many millions of black people did the Japanese enslave for generations?

How many committed treason against their own country?


Treason because they tried to secede?  Then i guess all those Vermonters who tried to secede from the U.S in 2003 because they opposed the Global War on Terror committed treason too.
 
2013-09-07 12:17:15 PM  

lack of warmth: Fallout Boy: One Bad Apple: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Both should be buried in the loser section

Tell the dead farks buried on the winning section that they won. See if that does them any good

It sure does, their deaths meant others lived.


A noble thought, but I believe that if you died in a war, does it really matter if your side won or lost? You died, and you lost. I can imagine there have been many dead soldiers in history who would rather want to be alive and to have lost the war than the other way around.
 
2013-09-07 12:21:01 PM  
images4.wikia.nocookie.net

Killed fitty Japs and looking for subby.
 
2013-09-07 12:24:20 PM  
So, display the names of the 9/11 hijackers at Ground Zero in, say, 2076?
 
2013-09-07 12:27:03 PM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: brimed03: Likwit: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Than the Japanese?! Did the confederates rape and kill a bunch of Chinese people, conduct experiments on POWs, and force civilians to commit mass suicide? Because that would have made them just as bad as the Japanese.

I imagine he's referring to traitors being worse than foreign attackers.

But since you mention it, read up on the Confederate POW camp at Andersonville. Every bit as bad as Nazi concentration camps. There are photos of Northern POWs... awful.

The applying conditions at Camp Sumter ( Andersonville) was due in large part to Gen Grants actions. He ordered the ending to the prisoner exchanges. He figured they benefited the south and did nothing for his army. With infurstucture gone it was hard to feed the prisoners. Couple that with the hook worm epidemic running thru the camp anemia and malnutrition is to be expected.


Not to mention you can't really compare the two because there was an almost eighty year technology/science gap between the two, Civil War doctors were lopping off limbs left and right because that was the only choice at the time. Either the leg went or the entire soldier went. It would be like us talking about the unnecessary soldier deaths in WWII because these days we can use drones and how they should have used drones back then.
 
2013-09-07 12:34:29 PM  

Dhusk: Likwit: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Than the Japanese?! Did the confederates rape and kill a bunch of Chinese people, conduct experiments on POWs, and force civilians to commit mass suicide? Because that would have made them just as bad as the Japanese.

How many millions of black people did the Japanese enslave for generations?

How many committed treason against their own country?


Nice try asshole, but the Japanese were far worse. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes
 
2013-09-07 12:37:14 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Meet me out back and we'll have a discussion about that ...


Indeed. The members of George H. W. Bush's squadron would have much preferred Andersonville.
 
2013-09-07 12:38:51 PM  

adammpower: my take on this "im ok with it".


Agreed. I work in very close proximity to the JSDF on a daily basis and have found them to be nothing but professional, conscientious, and honorable. The past is the past, and war is hell.
 
2013-09-07 12:39:39 PM  

mekki: Mid_mo_mad_man: brimed03: Likwit: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Than the Japanese?! Did the confederates rape and kill a bunch of Chinese people, conduct experiments on POWs, and force civilians to commit mass suicide? Because that would have made them just as bad as the Japanese.

I imagine he's referring to traitors being worse than foreign attackers.

But since you mention it, read up on the Confederate POW camp at Andersonville. Every bit as bad as Nazi concentration camps. There are photos of Northern POWs... awful.

The applying conditions at Camp Sumter ( Andersonville) was due in large part to Gen Grants actions. He ordered the ending to the prisoner exchanges. He figured they benefited the south and did nothing for his army. With infurstucture gone it was hard to feed the prisoners. Couple that with the hook worm epidemic running thru the camp anemia and malnutrition is to be expected.

Not to mention you can't really compare the two because there was an almost eighty year technology/science gap between the two, Civil War doctors were lopping off limbs left and right because that was the only choice at the time. Either the leg went or the entire soldier went. It would be like us talking about the unnecessary soldier deaths in WWII because these days we can use drones and how they should have used drones back then.



If a general in WWII had the casualty rates Grant, Lee, or McCeallan they would not be in command long. One shouldn't compare people's moral and actions in different time periods.
 
2013-09-07 12:40:25 PM  

b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......


A more fitting analogy is the (Woolsey) Memorial Hall at Yale, dedicated in 1915, with the names of ALL students killed in the Civil War. (typically Northern Universities honor students that fought for the North while Southern ones honor the South). Then again Yale has a college still named to honor John Calhoun.
 
2013-09-07 12:51:42 PM  

Farty McPooPants: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Not even close.  Stop believing the anti-Confederate hype and get educated on the Imperial Japanese armed forces of WW2.
The memorials for the Confederate soldiers?
-Built by the people they fought for.
-Not built by the people they fought against.
Your argument is illogical.


Nice try, but you're kind of wasting your time with stuff like this..

Confederates = Evil, evil slavers
Union = Saints, every last one

We live in a culture where, if a kid with a Southern drawl is in a northern school, they're made to write the Gettysburg Address instead of sentences reflecting what they actually did, teachers will make them stand with their noses to the chalk board and ask them if that reminds them of certain chalk-white cliffs down south and the kid will be ostracized and called hillbilly.. and be made to take speech therapy classes because their accent makes them "sound stupid".
 
2013-09-07 12:54:56 PM  
I took the boat ride out to the floating monument when I was 8. It has really beautiful views of the island and harbour and felt very peaceful (which was probably helped by the general quiet everyone observed without being told to), but then you see the diesel bubbling up in the water and remember all the dead men beneath you, and then become conscious of all the Japanese people around you.... it was a strange mixture of experiences. Later I asked my Dad why all the Japanese people went there and he reminded me of when we went to Wounded Knee and helped me to see how important it is we learn from all these horrible things of the past.

If the Vets of Pearl are OK with this it's good news imo, every side loses sons and daughters in war.
 
2013-09-07 12:57:55 PM  

Ned Stark: Dhusk: Likwit: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Than the Japanese?! Did the confederates rape and kill a bunch of Chinese people, conduct experiments on POWs, and force civilians to commit mass suicide? Because that would have made them just as bad as the Japanese.

How many millions of black people did the Japanese enslave for generations?

How many committed treason against their own country?

The Confederacy only enslaved black people for an absolute maximum of 4 years.

The United States on the other hand, yep generations and generations.


img.fark.net
'Of COURSE slavery is the worst thing that ever happened!'
 
2013-09-07 01:00:19 PM  

El Supe: Dhusk: Likwit: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Than the Japanese?! Did the confederates rape and kill a bunch of Chinese people, conduct experiments on POWs, and force civilians to commit mass suicide? Because that would have made them just as bad as the Japanese.

How many millions of black people did the Japanese enslave for generations?

How many committed treason against their own country?

Treason because they tried to secede?  Then i guess all those Vermonters who tried to secede from the U.S in 2003 because they opposed the Global War on Terror committed treason too.


Q: Did those Vermonters organize themselves into armies and attack US Military posts, eventually killing thousands and seizing control of vast sections of the nation? If so, then yes, they are traitors too.
 
2013-09-07 01:00:32 PM  

Ned Stark: mcsey: Traitors are worse than imperialists.

People who want to govern themselves in defiance of the present order are worse than those who wish to forcibly govern others in defiance of the present order?

I think you forgot to carry the 1 in your moral calculus.


This could not be a bigger set up to point out that when SLAVERY is what you are fighting for freedom over, you have lost all high ground.
 
2013-09-07 01:00:52 PM  

0z79: Confederates = Evil, evil slavers


They weren't slaves.  They were 'student-athletes'.
 
2013-09-07 01:01:55 PM  

adammpower: my take on this "im ok with it".

Twelve years ago I found myself with no where to really be for Thanksgiving and ended up in Honolulu for the week.   It had been a few months since the 9/11 attacks and the 60th Anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attacks was a week away. Both events shaped and drastically changed American Policy and the lives of its citizens.  Two terrible tragedies, one very fresh, the other not even a memory to most but still in the very recent past.

I went to Pearl Harbor that week to give my respects and satisfy my history nerd desires.  They were setting up for the big 60th Anniversary ceremony next week, tents, tables, chairs, portable potties, podiums...In-between all of that i saw something that moved me greatly and won't likely forget.   Large groups of very old American men and very old Japanese men hugging and laughing, sharing a drink and crying, a lot.  Just 60 years after taking up arms against each other.

by the time of the 60th anniversary of 9/11 I'll be dead.   If I'm not, i plan on being in Manhattan to see some hugging and crying amongst men and women who took up arms against each other.


Not to go all "MURRICA" on you, as I'm sure I'll get the derp retort...but what makes you think the Arab culture will have changed in 60 years?  It's been centuries and centuries of fully clothed cum dumpsters (literally) and be-headings...whereas the Japanese are now highly refined and philosophic in their culture.

In 60 years they're still gonna be yelling Allah al Akbar and killing their own siblings in the name of honor...the only difference will be their oil reserves will be almost gone.
 
2013-09-07 01:03:56 PM  
El Supe:

Treason because they tried to secede?  Then i guess all those Vermonters who tried to secede from the U.S in 2003 because they opposed the Global War on Terror committed treason too.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

By farking definition it was treason.

Yet another apologist that doesn't know what the farking constitution says.
 
2013-09-07 01:04:26 PM  

DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: 0z79: Confederates = Evil, evil slavers

They weren't slaves.  They were 'student-athletes'.


Sorry... to me you're in the same category as anyone who ever gave me a hard time simply for being a native Texan, from grade school, through college to when I finally learned to suppress my drawl.

And no, I'm not racist. I've met too many decent black people and too many truly horrible whites to hold such views.
 
2013-09-07 01:04:35 PM  

El Supe: Dhusk: Likwit: b2theory: We have memorials for Confederate soldiers, who were arguably worse......

Than the Japanese?! Did the confederates rape and kill a bunch of Chinese people, conduct experiments on POWs, and force civilians to commit mass suicide? Because that would have made them just as bad as the Japanese.

How many millions of black people did the Japanese enslave for generations?

How many committed treason against their own country?

Treason because they tried to secede?  Then i guess all those Vermonters who tried to secede from the U.S in 2003 because they opposed the Global War on Terror committed treason too.


United States Constitution, Article III, Section 3:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

Did the Vermonters that tried to secede from the Untied States levy war against tthem?  No.  Did they adher to their enemeies, giving them aid and comfort?  No.

Did the Confederacy levy war against the United States?  Yes.

Vermonters that tried to secede in 2003:  No treason committed.
Confederacy:  Treason committed.
 
2013-09-07 01:08:28 PM  
pbs.twimg.com
/hot
 
2013-09-07 01:09:42 PM  

0z79: DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: 0z79: Confederates = Evil, evil slavers

They weren't slaves.  They were 'student-athletes'.

Sorry... to me you're in the same category as anyone who ever gave me a hard time simply for being a native Texan, from grade school, through college to when I finally learned to suppress my drawl.

And no, I'm not racist. I've met too many decent black people and too many truly horrible whites to hold such views.


Of course you are not a racist.

southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com
 
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