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(Washington Post)   After not being evil, then being evil, Google has decided to not be evil again   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 39
    More: Spiffy, Google, NSA, Christopher Soghoian, security engineering  
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4337 clicks; posted to Geek » on 06 Sep 2013 at 8:12 PM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



39 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-06 08:13:43 PM
They just don't want the NSA getting anything for free.
 
2013-09-06 08:24:30 PM
Google has morphed into the world's biggest advertiser, so not being evil isn't really an option now.
 
2013-09-06 08:29:32 PM
Google Glass was canceled?  Holy shiat, that is good news.
 
2013-09-06 08:40:02 PM

skinink: Google has morphed into the world's biggest advertiser, so not being evil isn't really an option now.


This.

It is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Google has never said no to a NSA letter and what good is encryption in the face of that? Google is encrypting the data and will decrypt it the moment anyone asks.
 
2013-09-06 08:47:19 PM
"Oh 2wolves, you're paranoid.  No one is mining your email or phone records."

As per too many Farkers just +/- 90 days ago,
 
2013-09-06 08:51:28 PM
anyone who thinks that the NSA doesn't have the encryption key is a fool.
 
2013-09-06 08:51:53 PM
They're "encrypting" the data.

Sure they are.

And the NSA doesn't have the keys.  Or more than half of them, anyway.
 
2013-09-06 08:52:57 PM
Bullshiat, Google is working very hard on their vision of Internet 2.0, exclusive, pay through the nose service for those who can afford it while the rest of the original infrastructure burns to the ground.
 
2013-09-06 08:58:30 PM

Apik0r0s: Bullshiat, Google is working very hard on their vision of Internet 2.0, exclusive, pay through the nose service for those who can afford it while the rest of the original infrastructure burns to the ground.


Not too terribly different than the TSA and getting on an airplane,
 
2013-09-06 09:00:32 PM
Talk all the shiat you want about Google.  I trust them a lot more than I trust the govt.  They need a revenue stream from something to pay for all the cool crap they do, so I have no problem with them making money.  As long as they stick to their mission statement, the world will be a better place, IMO.
 
2013-09-06 09:05:25 PM

dirtyeffinhippie: Talk all the shiat you want about Google.  I trust them a lot more than I trust the govt.  They need a revenue stream from something to pay for all the cool crap they do, so I have no problem with them making money.  As long as they stick to their mission statement, the world will be a better place, IMO.


And AT&T.  And Verizon.  And Amazon.  And...

In fact the only company that said "No" to the Feds was QWEST Communications.

Look what happened to them.
 
2013-09-06 09:15:28 PM

skinink: Google has morphed into the world's biggest advertiser, so not being evil isn't really an option now.


Morphed?  They've basically never offered a software product where the 'consumer' was the user; remember, if you're not paying for a product,  you are the product.  The google user has always just been a means to get money for Google from third parties, and it's childish to think otherwise.

worlddan: It is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Google has never said no to a NSA letter and what good is encryption in the face of that? Google is encrypting the data and will decrypt it the moment anyone asks.


You miss the point entirely, and don't seem to have read the article.  The article is clear about this not being anything about NSA, PRISM, etc., but rather protection against non-governmental intrusion.

Why would they say no to an NSA letter, and why should they?  If they're presented with valid court orders, what interest would they have in refusing?  Do you complain that your bank would answer a subpoena or warrant for your records if a valid one was provided?

Apik0r0s: Bullshiat, Google is working very hard on their vision of Internet 2.0, exclusive, pay through the nose service for those who can afford it while the rest of the original infrastructure burns to the ground.


So?

What do you want them to do, instead?  Google will do what Google has always done: find ways to make money for Google.  If they can do it in a way that makes people love them, they'll do it.  If the only way to do it makes people hate them,  they'll do that to.  They are not altruists, they are businessmen.
 
2013-09-06 09:15:40 PM

dirtyeffinhippie: Talk all the shiat you want about Google.  I trust them a lot more than I trust the govt.  They need a revenue stream from something to pay for all the cool crap they do, so I have no problem with them making money.  As long as they stick to their mission statement, the world will be a better place, IMO.


The trouble is we don't know Google ends and the government begins on the internet. They have a common interest in collecting personal data so their protests that they resist the government are bogus.
 
2013-09-06 09:21:18 PM

dirtyeffinhippie: Talk all the shiat you want about Google. I trust them a lot more than I trust the govt.


Any government is really just a conglomeration of corporations now. With the president as spokesman.
 
2013-09-06 09:25:18 PM
So they want the NSA to pay them for the data just like all of their other clients?
 
2013-09-06 09:30:26 PM
Hahahahahaha no. Don't care.Google is the least trustworthy (if you can even use that term to describe any company) of the currently existing tech companies. I wouldn't trust them with the time of day.
 
2013-09-06 09:48:52 PM

sure haven't: Hahahahahaha no. Don't care.Google is the least trustworthy (if you can even use that term to describe any company) of the currently existing tech companies. I wouldn't trust them with the time of day.


Really?  You trust them less than:

Microsoft
Sony
AT&T
Facebook
Apple
EA

?
 
2013-09-06 09:52:45 PM
Meh.. Everyone is farked.. The only way to "be safe" is to stop using the internet entirely.. The internet has turned into one giant bottle of K-Y Jelly
 
2013-09-06 10:09:50 PM
NSA killed American internet dominance.

This will cost our economy 100s of billions of dollars in lost revenue as other countries go indigenous or elsewhere for their products.
 
2013-09-06 10:09:58 PM

Infernalist: anyone who thinks that the NSA doesn't have the encryption key is a fool.


aaannnd.... we're done here.
 
2013-09-06 10:29:52 PM

blue_2501: sure haven't: Hahahahahaha no. Don't care.Google is the least trustworthy (if you can even use that term to describe any company) of the currently existing tech companies. I wouldn't trust them with the time of day.

Really?  You trust them less than:

Microsoft
Sony
AT&T
Facebook
Apple
EA

?


Yes, less than all of them.

Notice I did take a shot at all of them. I don't "trust" any of them, but google in my eyes is the worst. At least Facebook doesn't pretend to be private.
 
2013-09-06 11:02:11 PM

mrlewish: NSA killed American internet dominance.

This will cost our economy 100s of billions of dollars in lost revenue as other countries go indigenous or elsewhere for their products.


It sure did.  I immediately cancelled my Facebook account after hearing about all of this and signed up for Weibo, and do all of my searches on Yandex now.  I feel so much more secure knowing my information is in the hands companies that polish the knobs of much more privacy-friendly intelligence agencies.

/Keith Alexander's address history and such is on Spokeo, if you need a little spiteful reverse-snooping retaliation.  Spokeo probably knows how many times Kim Jong Un picked his nose yesterday.
 
2013-09-06 11:06:23 PM

mrlewish: NSA killed American internet dominance.

This will cost our economy 100s of billions of dollars in lost revenue as other countries go indigenous or elsewhere for their products.


Yeah.

They'll trust the Russians or the Chinese. Heck, maybe Nigeria or India will build their technological capabilities, those are nations full of trustworthy people.

Or maybe they'll switch to the technology supplied by one of the 50-100 puppet states of the US or Russia.

Who's left?

If dumbass internet security geeks want to make themselves useful they should start work on an open-source fully encrypted onion-routed darknet for the world to switch to.
 
2013-09-06 11:10:52 PM
Don't have a link, but you guys should know Google is in court right now defending their right to scan all email messages, both outgoing and incoming, that come through Gmail, so they can better target ads. Their argument is that, since Gmail users voluntarily submit their information (emails) to a third party (Google) there is no expectation of privacy.

Food for thought.
 
2013-09-06 11:15:55 PM

amyldoanitrite: Don't have a link, but you guys should know Google is in court right now defending their right to scan all email messages, both outgoing and incoming, that come through Gmail, so they can better target ads. Their argument is that, since Gmail users voluntarily submit their information (emails) to a third party (Google) there is no expectation of privacy.

Food for thought.


People have short memories.

http://boingboing.net/2009/07/31/how-to-avoid-ads-in.html
 
2013-09-06 11:22:54 PM

amyldoanitrite: Don't have a link, but you guys should know Google is in court right now defending their right to scan all email messages, both outgoing and incoming, that come through Gmail, so they can better target ads. Their argument is that, since Gmail users voluntarily submit their information (emails) to a third party (Google) there is no expectation of privacy.

Food for thought.


Adblock blocks ads.

NoScript stops scripts from googleadservices.com.

Ghostery does the rest.

If you wanna be a real pro, find all the ad and tracker web addresses and edit your hosts.txt to set their ips to 0.0.0.0.
 
2013-09-07 12:04:46 AM

amyldoanitrite: Don't have a link, but you guys should know Google is in court right now defending their right to scan all email messages, both outgoing and incoming, that come through Gmail, so they can better target ads. Their argument is that, since Gmail users voluntarily submit their information (emails) to a third party (Google) there is no expectation of privacy.

Food for thought.


Link here .
 
2013-09-07 12:28:54 AM
mattharvest:

worlddan: It is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Google has never said no to a NSA letter and what good is encryption in the face of that? Google is encrypting the data and will decrypt it the moment anyone asks.

You miss the point entirely, and don't seem to have read the article.  The article is clear about this not being anything about NSA, PRISM, etc., but rather protection against non-governmental intrusion.


No, you miss the point entirely. If the NSA can have it anyone can have it; it's not as if the NSA is leak free. In fact, the reality the the NSA still doesn't know everything Snowden took is a damn good indication that that he wasn't the only one.

An encryption key is a tiny file. If more than one person has access to that key or can gain access to that key, the whole world can. End of story.
 
2013-09-07 12:38:54 AM

styckx: Meh.. Everyone is farked.. The only way to "be safe" is to stop using the internet entirely.. The internet has turned into one giant bottle of K-Y Jelly


Yes, I agree. I'm old school and I remember the time when there was no internet or even cable for that matter. I had dreams of what the internet could be and that dream has turned into a nightmare on so many levels. I don't know what to do. Much of my professional and personal life is built around the internet but I've come to the realization that if I could chuck it all tomorrow and never have to look at the internet again I would. It just isn't worth it to me anymore. I do not want to be a part of what it has become.

The one advantage I have is that I know what life without the internet is like because I grew up before it happened. I can deal with it. I worry about the kids of today; they do not know any other way of living.
 
2013-09-07 01:18:28 AM

worlddan: styckx: Meh.. Everyone is farked.. The only way to "be safe" is to stop using the internet entirely.. The internet has turned into one giant bottle of K-Y Jelly

Yes, I agree. I'm old school and I remember the time when there was no internet or even cable for that matter. I had dreams of what the internet could be and that dream has turned into a nightmare on so many levels. I don't know what to do. Much of my professional and personal life is built around the internet but I've come to the realization that if I could chuck it all tomorrow and never have to look at the internet again I would. It just isn't worth it to me anymore. I do not want to be a part of what it has become.

The one advantage I have is that I know what life without the internet is like because I grew up before it happened. I can deal with it. I worry about the kids of today; they do not know any other way of living.


I got to see it Become. My first experiences with the Net involved an acoustic modem, an Omaha singles BBS and a WHOLE lotta trolling. It has changed little.
 
2013-09-07 01:58:42 AM
I heard they now switched to "Don't eat weevils."
 
2013-09-07 03:42:47 AM
I'm getting Google Fiber very shortly. I cannot wait.
 
2013-09-07 05:59:51 AM

blue_2501: sure haven't: Hahahahahaha no. Don't care.Google is the least trustworthy (if you can even use that term to describe any company) of the currently existing tech companies. I wouldn't trust them with the time of day.

Really?  You trust them less than:

Microsoft
Sony
AT&T
Facebook
Apple
EA

?


Anyone that answers "No" lacks critical thinking skills. Of the companies listed, Google is the only company there whose entire business model is selling you to the highest bidder.
 
2013-09-07 06:42:13 AM

styckx: Meh.. Everyone is farked.. The only way to "be safe" is to stop using the internet entirely.. The internet has turned into one giant bottle of K-Y Jelly


The internet is a series of lubes!
 
2013-09-07 09:43:27 AM

digistil: blue_2501: sure haven't: Hahahahahaha no. Don't care.Google is the least trustworthy (if you can even use that term to describe any company) of the currently existing tech companies. I wouldn't trust them with the time of day.

Really?  You trust them less than:

Microsoft
Sony
AT&T
Facebook
Apple
EA

?

Anyone that answers "No" lacks critical thinking skills. Of the companies listed, Google is the only company there whose entire business model is selling you to the highest bidder.


Google tells the highest bidder what kind of crazy porn I like to search for.  Facebok tells the highest bidder my name, address, phone number, what I look like (helpfully tagged in many poses, hairsyles, clothes, etc. for accurate facial recognition), and who all of my friends are.  I'll stick with Google as being at least slightly less bad.
 
2013-09-07 10:04:46 AM

RogermcAllen: Google Glass was canceled?  Holy shiat, that is good news.


Oh goddamnitsomuch you HAD MY HOPES UP!
 
2013-09-07 11:10:05 AM

RogermcAllen: Facebok tells the highest bidder my name, address, phone number, what I look like


Citation needed or GTFO.
 
2013-09-07 12:46:59 PM

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: Adblock blocks ads.

NoScript stops scripts from googleadservices.com.

Ghostery does the rest.


That doesn't stop them from scanning email contents. Of course that whole argument is kind of silly, people are worried that they scan it for keywords? they have the whole body. If you really cared about privacy you wouldn't be using an email system run by a 3rd party.
 
2013-09-07 01:57:18 PM

itsdan: Suckmaster Burstingfoam: Adblock blocks ads.

NoScript stops scripts from googleadservices.com.

Ghostery does the rest.

That doesn't stop them from scanning email contents. Of course that whole argument is kind of silly, people are worried that they scan it for keywords? they have the whole body. If you really cared about privacy you wouldn't be using an email system run by a 3rd party.


The issue taken is that Google doesn't limit email scanning to Gmail accounts.
 
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