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(Guardian)   Publishing the abilities of the NSA helps our enemies. YOU DON'T SAY?   (theguardian.com) divider line 38
    More: Obvious, NSA, United States, human trafficking  
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2939 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Sep 2013 at 6:41 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-09-06 06:43:27 PM  
7 votes:
If you consider the American people to be the enemy, then yes.
2013-09-06 06:36:58 PM  
7 votes:
1984 was a cautionary tale, not a guidebook. I wish our government would stop trying to make it reality instead.
2013-09-06 07:23:35 PM  
6 votes:
If the US Government doesn't like all this shiat being released, they can try behaving how they're supposed to next time. If they weren't massively and flagrantly violating everybody's rights, then nobody would feel the need to come forward and blow the whistle about that.

It's a very complicated concept, I know.
2013-09-06 06:10:59 PM  
5 votes:
Yet somehow they're great at busting victimless crimes  but not so great at getting terrorists.
2013-09-06 07:54:33 PM  
4 votes:
Another potential side effect of the NSA's behavior is the damage they've done to America's and the West's computer industry.  The newest revelations make it clear that NO American companies can be trusted to handle, transmit, or process sensitive data.  The NSA, by granting themselves the power to secretly compromise any company has thus placed every company under suspicion.  More and more system administrators across the internet are already saying that from now on, the only type of encryption that can be trusted is open-source software that has been heavily peer reviewed.  If you're a closed-source company that deals in products that handle sensitive data, than the NSA has very likely farked you over when it comes to our ability to make future sales.  On top of that, every network and system administrator now needs to second-guess all of the product and service advice he's worked off of for the last decade.  This is because the NSA revelations make it clear that not only were they trying to compromise software, but they were also trying to compromise individuals at all levels of the network industry... and now there's no way to know if that router, or that new service, or that new software package that an "expert" recommended for your company was recommended to you because it was the best for your situation, or because it was the best for NSA's desire to spy on you.
2013-09-06 07:27:47 PM  
4 votes:
Well that's interesting, because the Public Editor at the New York Times said that publishing this story wasn't a difficult decision at all:

The New York Times has come under fire in the past for agreeing to government requests to hold back sensitive stories or information, but it bucked such requests in publishing a front-page article in Friday's paper.

The executive editor, Jill Abramson, told me that while she and the managing editor Dean Baquet went to Washington to meet with officials and gave them "a respectful hearing," the decision to publish was "not a particularly anguished one."

The article says that the National Security Agency has the ability - and uses it - to break the encryption used in a great deal of Internet communication. It's an important part of a continuing set of stories on the N.S.A.'s surveillance and its implications for privacy, the early ones of which have been published largely in The Guardian and The Washington Post, as a result of a huge leak by Edward J. Snowden, the former N.S.A. contractor.

Top editors at The Times listened to government officials' concerns over national security but decided to publish despite their request, because it was in the public interest to do so.

"Our default position is to inform the public," Ms. Abramson told me. "Publishing information in the public service is our mission in our democracy." The balance between national security and the public's right to know must be considered, she said. In this case, the latter clearly prevailed.


The public in a Democracy has the right to know what it's government is doing in secret when those actions threaten civil liberties?

What a concept.
2013-09-06 08:12:37 PM  
3 votes:
I can imagine how horrible the NSA is feeling about having their most intimate secrets exposed and studied by faceless, unsympathetic, judgmental eyes. Being betrayed by a fellow countryman, someone who promised they would never violate a sacred oath of privacy. And now it's as if there's nowhere they can communicate in confidence.

I can only imagine how the NSA feels.
2013-09-06 07:38:23 PM  
3 votes:

HypnozombieX: Considering the general public is included in that "enemy list" I'm ok with this.


It is very much worth remembering what happened when the people began to protest economic injustice in our plutocracy.

New documents show that the violent crackdown on Occupy last fall - so mystifying at the time - was not just coordinated at the level of the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, and local police. The crackdown, which involved, as you may recall, violent arrests, group disruption, canister missiles to the skulls of protesters, people held in handcuffs so tight they were injured, people held in bondage till they were forced to wet or soil themselves -was coordinated with the big banks themselves.

The Partnership for Civil Justice Fund, in a groundbreaking scoop that should once more shame major US media outlets (why are nonprofits now some of the only entities in America left breaking major civil liberties news?), filed this request. The document - reproduced here in an easily searchable format - shows a terrifying network of coordinated DHS, FBI, police, regional fusion center, and private-sector activity so completely merged into one another that the monstrous whole is, in fact, one entity: in some cases, bearing a single name, the Domestic Security Alliance Council. And it reveals this merged entity to have one centrally planned, locally executed mission. The documents, in short, show the cops and DHS working for and with banks to target, arrest, and politically disable peaceful American citizens.

The documents show that from the start, the FBI - though it acknowledges Occupy movement as being, in fact, a peaceful organization - nonetheless designated OWS repeatedly as a "terrorist threat"


You'd have to be a complete farking idiot to claim we shouldn't be very, very worried about the direction this nation is heading.
2013-09-06 06:45:02 PM  
3 votes:

Apik0r0s: Enemies come if foreign AND domestic flavors.


The NSA calls everyone they spy on "adversaries" explicitly. This includes you and me.
2013-09-06 09:00:08 PM  
2 votes:

Kit Fister: gun nuts who don't trust the government aren't so crazy now are we?


No, that really hasn't changed any. Your gun is your blankey. A child's pacifier. You might feel safer, but only in the same way people 'feel safer' being made to take off their shoes in the airport. A weapon you're unwilling to use is worthless. And the moment you do, you're going to draw a degree of attention to yourself you are not prepared to deal with, and when that happens, you are going to stand _alone_. Like every other idiot who thought they could make a stand using force.
2013-09-06 07:26:52 PM  
2 votes:

HypnozombieX: Considering the general public is included in that "enemy list" I'm ok with this.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/05/nsa-snowden-enc ry ption-cracked/2772721/

It bears repeating.  The NSA considers you an adversary.  Get pissed.  Then tell everyone you know.  Then get more pissed.  and stay pissed.  For a long time.  The only thing they have going for them is our goldfish-esque attention spans.  LETS END THIS CYCLE NOW.
2013-09-06 07:17:45 PM  
2 votes:
before the trolls try their thing.. here's the article where the NSA says we are the adversaries:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/05/nsa-snowden-enc ry ption-cracked/2772721/
2013-09-06 06:51:34 PM  
2 votes:
Our enemies being, of course, ourselves.
2013-09-06 11:00:10 PM  
1 votes:
This needs to be part of any NSA thread:

Sneakers

hiat this nail many years before the shiat hit the fan.
2013-09-06 09:47:22 PM  
1 votes:
i.imgur.com
2013-09-06 09:31:24 PM  
1 votes:

new_york_monty: 1984 was a cautionary tale, not a guidebook. I wish our government would stop trying to make it reality instead.


peacersvp.files.wordpress.com
2013-09-06 09:27:10 PM  
1 votes:

DraconianTotalitarian: you people are farking retarded. you think the nsa cares about some farking farkers? HAHAHAHAHAHA


Oh look the NSA is here. Or one of their apologists. Whether or not they care about me, I still demand ththe natural right to privacy when my conversation is done in such a way as to exclude all but a single other party.
2013-09-06 09:23:22 PM  
1 votes:

Kit Fister: But bottom line, you cannot honestly tell me that the activities of the NSA are in anyone's best interests but the government,


I'll just add that I don't believe the NSA is acting in the best interests of anyone but the NSA, and ultimately, not even that. I have no reason to believe that any POTUS has ever had definitive knowledge of what the NSA has been up to.
2013-09-06 09:04:25 PM  
1 votes:

T-Cubed: So in five, ten, twenty years from now... however long it takes... we will no longer be the world's communication hub.

Unfortunately for you, you're forgetting about capitalism. As long as we offer the best service at a competitive price, we'll continue to be the world's communication hub indefinitely. Most companies don't have principles. They have profit motives.

However, best service could be define, in the marketplace, as a service that does not llow the NSA to collect and decrypt your data...



best service also does not mean 'where something started'.  There are *plenty* of tech companies in other countries will to take up the slack.  And in fact, many of the companies that folks think of as 'American' are really multi-national already with no national loyalties.  They are already starting to get the stink eye from their non-US locales.
2013-09-06 08:59:43 PM  
1 votes:

ronaprhys: Unfortunately for you, you're forgetting about capitalism.  As long as we offer the best service at a competitive price, we'll continue to be the world's communication hub indefinitely.  Most companies don't have principles.  They have profit motives.


And you're forgetting that all companies are run by human leaders, and those leaders often have things they'd like to keep to themselves.  If there's a way to keep law enforcement from finding out about their raging cocaine habit or the real reason for that last "business" trip to Thailand, they're going to do that instead, stockholders be damned.
2013-09-06 08:47:52 PM  
1 votes:

blahpers: Kit Fister: A Non Amos: If it wasn't for warfare, just think of what kinds of crazy awesome technology we could have by now

And because of it. Microwaves? Thank radar development. GPS? Military tech. Internet? DARPA. Nuclear power? Yep.

Military. R&d has brought us a LOT of tech.

As side effects. Think what we could accomplish if such problems were our primary objectives.


When mankind has effectively eliminated jealousy, rage, fear, sorrow, avarice, contempt, hate...then we might not need weapons of war.
2013-09-06 08:28:14 PM  
1 votes:

ladyfortuna: positronica: Another potential side effect of the NSA's behavior is the damage they've done to America's and the West's computer industry.  The newest revelations make it clear that NO American companies can be trusted to handle, transmit, or process sensitive data.  The NSA, by granting themselves the power to secretly compromise any company has thus placed every company under suspicion.  More and more system administrators across the internet are already saying that from now on, the only type of encryption that can be trusted is open-source software that has been heavily peer reviewed.  If you're a closed-source company that deals in products that handle sensitive data, than the NSA has very likely farked you over when it comes to our ability to make future sales.  On top of that, every network and system administrator now needs to second-guess all of the product and service advice he's worked off of for the last decade.  This is because the NSA revelations make it clear that not only were they trying to compromise software, but they were also trying to compromise individuals at all levels of the network industry... and now there's no way to know if that router, or that new service, or that new software package that an "expert" recommended for your company was recommended to you because it was the best for your situation, or because it was the best for NSA's desire to spy on you.

Ugh, I hadn't quite thought of it that way. It's entirely possible this could have a ripple effect on our entire economy, if foreign governments and businesses freak out about it. Good job, NSA...


Yeah.  I posted the below in June, and stand by it:

Currently, the US is the communications hub of the world.  Internet, cell, satellite... much of the worlds data goes through us, as pointed out in the NSA presentation.  And the US government is determined to take advantage of that, as pointed out in the very same NSA presentation.  The world's data flows through us, and what flows through us we are going to spy on.

So guess what?  The rest of the world just realized that they need to ensure their data doesn't get routed through us.  It's not a matter of trust, they KNOW what we are going to do with data that goes through the US.  We are going to use it to spy on them, we are very clear about that.

So in five, ten, twenty years from now... however long it takes... we will no longer be the world's communication hub.
2013-09-06 08:19:55 PM  
1 votes:

Kit Fister: A Non Amos: If it wasn't for warfare, just think of what kinds of crazy awesome technology we could have by now

And because of it. Microwaves? Thank radar development. GPS? Military tech. Internet? DARPA. Nuclear power? Yep.

Military. R&d has brought us a LOT of tech.


As side effects. Think what we could accomplish if such problems were our primary objectives.
2013-09-06 07:55:45 PM  
1 votes:

uber humper: In other news, publishing companies in cahoots with the NSA will be terrible for their business.  What foreign company will want to buy American tech?


The companies with agreed-to backdoors in their software / hardware is more comprehensive than has been released so far.  I would wager that US products of this kind are now starting to be looked at as liabilities.  This can of worms will have far-reaching consequences.

/walked away from this in 2006
2013-09-06 07:52:20 PM  
1 votes:
This thread needs more drama queens freaking out.
2013-09-06 07:42:22 PM  
1 votes:

flynn80: The enemy of your enemy is your friend.


No, the enemy of your enemy is usually just not your enemy yet.
2013-09-06 07:41:19 PM  
1 votes:
The terrorists have won.  All the small steps that have happened, or - as some suggest, been on the government's wish list but didn't have the excuse to implement, right up to our government collecting our communications and metadata and treating us as potential adversaries (without any particular reason) and actively seeking to weaken encryption standards for their own gains at the potential detriment of their citizens is one victory for our enemies.  That had to execute one attack on American soil, and then sit back while they watched our government restrict our freedoms to a point no outside entity ever could.  If they hated us for our freedom, they have succeeded getting the government to capitulate to their demands of less freedom for us.

I'm just a little sad that my country has decided that the best course of action is to collect and keep and data mine my presumably private communications.
2013-09-06 07:35:20 PM  
1 votes:

Go Fornicate Without a Partner: HypnozombieX: Considering the general public is included in that "enemy list" I'm ok with this.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/05/nsa-snowden-enc ry ption-cracked/2772721/

It bears repeating.  The NSA considers you an adversary.  Get pissed.  Then tell everyone you know.  Then get more pissed.  and stay pissed.  For a long time.  The only thing they have going for them is our goldfish-esque attention spans.  LETS END THIS CYCLE NOW.


gun nuts who don't trust the government aren't so crazy now are we?
2013-09-06 07:31:54 PM  
1 votes:

A Non Amos: If it wasn't for warfare, just think of what kinds of crazy awesome technology we could have by now


Atomic power?
2013-09-06 07:22:04 PM  
1 votes:
 Considering the general public is included in that "enemy list" I'm ok with this.
2013-09-06 07:19:16 PM  
1 votes:

lostcat: lostcat: [upload.wikimedia.org image 158x272]

Great summer read, when I was 12.

Huh, I wanded into the wrong thread.

Carry on.


It works.
2013-09-06 07:13:36 PM  
1 votes:
according to the NSA, the 'adversaries' are us.  So isn't this good news?
2013-09-06 07:12:04 PM  
1 votes:
If it wasn't for warfare, just think of what kinds of crazy awesome technology we could have by now
2013-09-06 07:11:03 PM  
1 votes:
Publishing ANYTHING could somehow in some way help our enemies.  That doesn't mean we make publishing illegal.
2013-09-06 06:51:08 PM  
1 votes:
if I can't publish information that will help the terrorists win, then the terrorists have already won
2013-09-06 06:46:17 PM  
1 votes:
The enemy of your enemy is your friend.
2013-09-06 06:44:52 PM  
1 votes:

Apik0r0s: Enemies come if in foreign AND domestic flavors.


ftfm
2013-09-06 06:42:08 PM  
1 votes:
Enemies come if foreign AND domestic flavors.
 
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