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(Guardian)   Publishing the abilities of the NSA helps our enemies. YOU DON'T SAY?   (theguardian.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, NSA, United States, human trafficking  
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2967 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Sep 2013 at 6:41 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-06 09:33:36 PM  
 
2013-09-06 09:38:27 PM  

Kit Fister: Infernalist: The only thing more amusing than the freak outs by the drama queens is the notion that anyone here has a right to act surprised.

Be honest now: Did any one of you ever sincerely think that the government wasn't watching our activity on the internet?

Did you honestly think that the internet was this super anonymous system by which we could look at whatever we wanted, talk about whatever we wanted and, in some cases, act however we wanted...and the government wasn't watching and taking notes?

When it comes to public sites, nope, nothing posted is bound by any expectation of privacy due to being publicly disseminated. However, the contents of email, texts, direct conversations between two people NOT meant for public consumption? How is that not under the same protections as telephone communications? Wiretapping, whether digital or not, should be illegal without a warrent.

I don't understand how you can blow off such a massive thing because "its the internet". Do you support the government opening and censoring mail? Listening to your private phone conversations? And in the case of breaching private networks and breaking private codes for extended consumption, likewise I assume you're okay with someone randomly bugging your house and listening to everything you do?

Why should digital communications and privacy not be afforded the same protections as nonvirtual ones?


I think people have suspected that public communications were not private,but recently.  In, say, 1995 did I suspect that?  No.  Now I assumed it.  However, it's one thing to assume or suspect something, it's another to have proof that not only is it happening, but that the same government is lying to you about it and yet telling you to trust them.
 
2013-09-06 09:40:55 PM  
Well apparently all Americans are America's enemies now, so, uhhhh...it's Bush's fault?!?
 
2013-09-06 09:41:11 PM  

DraconianTotalitarian: you people are farking retarded. you think the nsa cares about some farking farkers? HAHAHAHAHAHA


The TEA party and religious segments of the GOP are trying very _very_ hard to get enough candidates into your government to make your country very... Russia-like for people like me. Maybe Uganda-like. And far too many of you are voting for them for my comfort.

/  For the same reason I don't like seeing loaded guns near kids, I'd rather not see a loaded NSA anywhere near the Teabaggers' grubby little mitts.
//  Others will have different very valid reasons for wanting to make sure nobody with an agenda ever gets to data mine the NSA's haul.
 
2013-09-06 09:45:26 PM  
Here's another occasion where Obama's NSA Director publicly lied to the world about what the NSA does.

"Our job is foreign intelligence," Alexander said, repeating that list of agencies overseeing the NSA. "Those who would want to weave the story that we have millions or hundreds of millions of dossiers on people, is absolutely false...From my perspective, this is absolute nonsense."

Meanwhile, back at Derpy Hooves,

dl.dropboxusercontent.com

Infernalist: Be honest now: Did any one of you ever sincerely think that the government wasn't watching our activity on the internet?

 
2013-09-06 09:45:27 PM  
The enemies are freedom, liberty, privacy, efficiency and economy.  Once these enemies are vanquished, then we will use ALL resources to voyeuristically survey ALL information about everything, which will be compiled in a massive data crunching computer that will answer the BIG question.

Seriously, what the NSA and the 15 other major US intelligence agencies are doing accomplishes the same thing as a teenage boy with unrestricted access to porn.  Depletion of precious bodily fluids.
 
2013-09-06 09:47:22 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-06 09:50:27 PM  

MooseUpNorth: DraconianTotalitarian: you people are farking retarded. you think the nsa cares about some farking farkers? HAHAHAHAHAHA

The TEA party and religious segments of the GOP are trying very _very_ hard to get enough candidates into your government to make your country very... Russia-like for people like me. Maybe Uganda-like. And far too many of you are voting for them for my comfort.

/  For the same reason I don't like seeing loaded guns near kids, I'd rather not see a loaded NSA anywhere near the Teabaggers' grubby little mitts.
//  Others will have different very valid reasons for wanting to make sure nobody with an agenda ever gets to data mine the NSA's haul.


Actually, a coalition of Tea Party Libertarians and Progressives in the House has been working together to force the NSA to obey the law and also to keep us out of war with Syria.

Dem Rep. Alan Grayson, a leader of the anti-war wing of the House Democratic caucus, tells TPM's Dylan Scott he is organizing across the aisle to create such an alliance by gearing up an "ad hoc whip organization." This sort of right-left alliance is often discussed but rarely materializes. But this time there could be something to it.

Here's a way to look at it. I compared the current whip count of Members of Congress who are firm or leaning No votes on Syria right now, with the Members who voted Yes on the recent amendment to end bulk NSA surveillance that corralled a surprising amount of bipartisan support. The vote on that amendment - which was sponsored by GOP Rep. Justin Amash and Dem Rep. John Conyers - was perhaps the clearest demonstration of such a developing alliance we've seen.

The overlap is striking. I count nearly four dozen Representatives - from both parties - that are on both lists. In other words, even though it's early in the whipping process on Syria, we're already seeing substantial numbers of Members who voted to end NSA surveillance now coming out or leaning against action in Syria.


In both instances they are working against the corrupt leadership of both parties.
 
2013-09-06 09:56:52 PM  
Unfortunately "our enemies" has been broadened to include Americans.
 
2013-09-06 10:17:07 PM  
I've heard that there's a lack of clearable US citizens (debt? pot? traffic tickets?), so US government agencies are giving short-term gigs to Asian visa workers.

If this is so, then I predict that the Chinese will trump the NSA in intel, if they haven't already.
 
2013-09-06 10:26:52 PM  

Infernalist: The only thing more amusing than the freak outs by the drama queens is the notion that anyone here has a right to act surprised.

Be honest now: Did any one of you ever sincerely think that the government wasn't watching our activity on the internet?

Did you honestly think that the internet was this super anonymous system by which we could look at whatever we wanted, talk about whatever we wanted and, in some cases, act however we wanted...and the government wasn't watching and taking notes?


Evidently, lots of people did, and are as upset as 13-year old girls when their little brothers read their secret locked diaries they left in their underwear drawers.

Although why anyone is surprised that something which came out of an agency called Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency WASN'T under the thumb of the government from its very inception (and by design) is beyond me. Did they honestly think the government spooks said "OK geeks, here's your DARPANet? Have at it, we're totally not looking!"
 
2013-09-06 10:39:53 PM  
They're just doing it for your own good and anyone who disagrees is a traitor.

Same with those banking and corporate regulations. They drive the economy so you can have an SUV and 60 inch TV. And we know that as long as you've got just a bit more than the folks in Whatsitstan and Thingyland you really won't pay attention to what's going on.
 
2013-09-06 11:00:10 PM  
This needs to be part of any NSA thread:

Sneakers

hiat this nail many years before the shiat hit the fan.
 
2013-09-06 11:52:18 PM  
Not according to the CSI principal. People are convinced the stuff they do on TV/CSI is real. They should just do an NSA show in which the agents 'magically' know everything about anyone and anything instantly and people will come to believe it...truth or not.
 
2013-09-07 12:39:05 AM  

LoneWolf343: If you consider the American people to be the enemy, then yes.


They should have never done that. If the government cannot trust it's citizens, why should we the people trust our government?

They breached the trust of the American people when we became their enemy and they need to spy on us.
 
2013-09-07 01:46:30 AM  

Infernalist: I'm not saying any of that.  All I'm saying is we've all known since achieving some level of mature understanding of the government that they stick their noses and ears and eyes into anything that they can.  That's what government does and everyone knows it and they 'should' expect it.

I'm commenting solely on the 'thisisanoutrage' posts that predominate in this thread.  Seriously?  Especially the ones who get so outraged that they start making comments about buying weapons (lol) and spouting 'my fark brethren!' speeches as if they're some Communist Party firebrand full of fury and outrage at some government atrocity.

Take a breath and get some perspective.


So if you were getting raped, since as we all know "rapists gonna rape," you'd just lie back and accept it, even try to enjoy it?  Go fark yourself.  "It's what they do" does not in any way make it acceptable.
 
2013-09-07 02:31:18 AM  

Arumat: Infernalist: I'm not saying any of that.  All I'm saying is we've all known since achieving some level of mature understanding of the government that they stick their noses and ears and eyes into anything that they can.  That's what government does and everyone knows it and they 'should' expect it.

I'm commenting solely on the 'thisisanoutrage' posts that predominate in this thread.  Seriously?  Especially the ones who get so outraged that they start making comments about buying weapons (lol) and spouting 'my fark brethren!' speeches as if they're some Communist Party firebrand full of fury and outrage at some government atrocity.

Take a breath and get some perspective.

So if you were getting raped, since as we all know "rapists gonna rape," you'd just lie back and accept it, even try to enjoy it?  Go fark yourself.  "It's what they do" does not in any way make it acceptable.


Take another breath. None of us who are saying "it's what they do" are saying it is in any way acceptable. Instead, it's like the old story of the frog who gave the scorpion a ride across the river and got stung halfway across. "You knew I was a scorpion when you let me crawl on your back."

It is NOT acceptable--any more than a rape is acceptable--but by the same token, if a woman were to allow Ted Bundy to escort her home, would the response solely be to be furious at Ted Bundy, or would you have to say to the woman "You knew he was a scorpion when you let him drive you home?" And considering--as I noted above--the Internet was created by the government, FOR the government, with the express purpose of preserving and decentralizing information so it would be readily accessible in the event it was needed; should our anger unilaterally descend on the government for accessing said information? "You knew they were scorpions when you let them crawl onto your back."
 
2013-09-07 02:44:20 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Arumat: Infernalist: I'm not saying any of that.  All I'm saying is we've all known since achieving some level of mature understanding of the government that they stick their noses and ears and eyes into anything that they can.  That's what government does and everyone knows it and they 'should' expect it.

I'm commenting solely on the 'thisisanoutrage' posts that predominate in this thread.  Seriously?  Especially the ones who get so outraged that they start making comments about buying weapons (lol) and spouting 'my fark brethren!' speeches as if they're some Communist Party firebrand full of fury and outrage at some government atrocity.

Take a breath and get some perspective.

So if you were getting raped, since as we all know "rapists gonna rape," you'd just lie back and accept it, even try to enjoy it?  Go fark yourself.  "It's what they do" does not in any way make it acceptable.

Take another breath. None of us who are saying "it's what they do" are saying it is in any way acceptable. Instead, it's like the old story of the frog who gave the scorpion a ride across the river and got stung halfway across. "You knew I was a scorpion when you let me crawl on your back."

It is NOT acceptable--any more than a rape is acceptable--but by the same token, if a woman were to allow Ted Bundy to escort her home, would the response solely be to be furious at Ted Bundy, or would you have to say to the woman "You knew he was a scorpion when you let him drive you home?" And considering--as I noted above--the Internet was created by the government, FOR the government, with the express purpose of preserving and decentralizing information so it would be readily accessible in the event it was needed; should our anger unilaterally descend on the government for accessing said information? "You knew they were scorpions when you let them crawl onto your back."


I know that. You obviously know that. Hell, most people reading this thread probably know that. But what percentage of internet-using do you think know that? I don't know, but given the average intelligence of the people I meet in this country, I don't believe it's a majority by any stretch of the imagination.
 
2013-09-07 08:40:22 AM  

LoneWolf343: If you consider the American people to be the enemy, then yes.


Its interesting that the NSA project is called Bullrun and that the GCQH project is called Edgehill.

Both appear to be named after the first major encounters of the US and British civil wars.

A little creepy and worrying.
 
2013-09-07 08:54:42 AM  
Kit Fister
What seems funny to me is that the more you want to be left alone and to stay out if harm's way the more attention you draw.

Well, yeah. You're not being exploited if you're being left alone.

This is why I think the more "normal" you pretend to be, the less attention they pay to you.

Normal = having a large portion of your productivity stolen. Which is the whole point of the economy and government.


Apik0r0s
There are folks in the Intelligence Community whose views make a Teabagger look like Che Guevara. There are also many patriotic Americans in those circles.

You say this as if they are different.


ginkor
i.imgur.com

The NSA has previously claimed that 54 terrorist plots had been disrupted "over the lifetime" of the bulk phone records collection and the separate program collecting the internet habits and communications of people believed to be non-Americans. On Wednesday, Inglis said that at most one plot might have been disrupted by the bulk phone records collection alone.
Not exactly the same comparison but that 54 number was obvious bullshiat, even considering how low it already is.


Gyrfalcon
It is NOT acceptable--any more than a rape is acceptable--but by the same token, if a woman were to allow Ted Bundy to escort her home, would the response solely be to be furious at Ted Bundy, or would you have to say to the woman "You knew he was a scorpion when you let him drive you home?" And considering--as I noted above--the Internet was created by the government, FOR the government, with the express purpose of preserving and decentralizing information so it would be readily accessible in the event it was needed; should our anger unilaterally descend on the government for accessing said information? "You knew they were scorpions when you let them crawl onto your back."

And therefore...?
Should we do something about it or not do something about it? I don't see a lot of other possibilities for the point you're trying to make.
 
2013-09-07 09:43:07 AM  

Arumat: And you're forgetting that all companies are run by human leaders, and those leaders often have things they'd like to keep to themselves.  If there's a way to keep law enforcement from finding out about their raging cocaine habit or the real reason for that last "business" trip to Thailand, they're going to do that instead, stockholders be damned.


No - I'm not forgetting that at all.  They aren't going to do anything like that if it costs the company money.  The BoD will put a very quick stop to that sort of nonsense if it costs more or they run into reliability things.  Secondly, any smart leader will keep that stuff on their personal machines, not company machines - which they could then elect to run through another country while keeping the business stuff running through our pipes.

Plus, the NSA likely doesn't care about the coke habit or boy-hookers.  None of those are likely to attack us.  They only care about actual threats.

Now, don't read that to say I support this - I don't.  It's nonsense to sacrifice liberty and civil rights for the illusion of safety (because it is only an illusion).  It's absolutely no different than gun control.  It infringes upon our rights while doing absolutely nothing to help us.


T-Cubed: However, best service could be define, in the marketplace, as a service that does not llow the NSA to collect and decrypt your data...


That's true, to an extent.  But timeliness, completeness, and reliability/up-time are much more likely to be the deciding factors - and cost.  Keep it cheap and they will come.  Since the infrastructure's already built, that makes it that much easier.  Plus, there's the other ways we play.  Sure - send your data through someone else, but then you lose access to our markets...
 
2013-09-07 10:50:26 AM  
121 comments on absolute confirmation that we are in the crosshairs of the NSA.

7,640 comments on Bin Laden being allegedly dumped off the side of an aircraft carrier.

We'll be okay, guys.  Oh, and all of this because 9/11.  You know?  That event that couldn't have possibly been orchestrated to create the cowardly hysteria needed as a pretext for now.

drjudywood.com

Where's the buildings?  You know?  Those two 1,000 foot tall structures that apparently dissapeared into the ground?  There should have been 100+ ft of rubble for EACH building.  It's time to revisit this, so that we can unravel the insane surveillance state that has arisen from this lie.

Trust me, the world will love us if we button this up.  There won't be a need for defense.

/drjudywood.com  - the site is atrocious, but FULL of interesting info.
 
2013-09-07 01:43:36 PM  
The NSA spends $250m a year on a program which, among other goals, works with technology companies to "covertly influence" their product designs

"with"

right
 
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