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(Guardian)   Publishing the abilities of the NSA helps our enemies. YOU DON'T SAY?   (theguardian.com) divider line 123
    More: Obvious, NSA, United States, human trafficking  
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2939 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Sep 2013 at 6:41 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-06 07:58:45 PM  

uber humper: In other news, publishing companies American companies of all types in cahoots with the NSA will be terrible for their business.  What foreign company will want to buy American tech?


At this point, you'd have to be crazy to buy a router from Cisco, et al.

Really, that's good news. Since Corporate citizens have so much more sway over our government than real flesh and blood citizens do, a boycott of American internet firms on the part of others in the world who don't like the idea of being spied on can really have an effect here.

American corporations are already afraid of this.

Their fear needs to become a reality.
 
2013-09-06 07:59:21 PM  

positronica: Another potential side effect of the NSA's behavior is the damage they've done to America's and the West's computer industry.  The newest revelations make it clear that NO American companies can be trusted to handle, transmit, or process sensitive data.  The NSA, by granting themselves the power to secretly compromise any company has thus placed every company under suspicion.  More and more system administrators across the internet are already saying that from now on, the only type of encryption that can be trusted is open-source software that has been heavily peer reviewed.  If you're a closed-source company that deals in products that handle sensitive data, than the NSA has very likely farked you over when it comes to our ability to make future sales.  On top of that, every network and system administrator now needs to second-guess all of the product and service advice he's worked off of for the last decade.  This is because the NSA revelations make it clear that not only were they trying to compromise software, but they were also trying to compromise individuals at all levels of the network industry... and now there's no way to know if that router, or that new service, or that new software package that an "expert" recommended for your company was recommended to you because it was the best for your situation, or because it was the best for NSA's desire to spy on you.


Ugh, I hadn't quite thought of it that way. It's entirely possible this could have a ripple effect on our entire economy, if foreign governments and businesses freak out about it. Good job, NSA...
 
2013-09-06 08:00:29 PM  

Go Fornicate Without a Partner: Infernalist: This thread needs more drama queens freaking out.

Go back under your bridge.


Isn't the most important thing trying to pretend this isn't a big deal, because Obama?
 
2013-09-06 08:07:14 PM  
Our only enemy is the government, so, no, it doesn't help them.
 
2013-09-06 08:07:31 PM  

worlddan: Apik0r0s: Enemies come if foreign AND domestic flavors.

The better question is thus: who is not on the list of NSA adversaries? It seems these days that after Snowden even NSA employees are on the list of NSA adversaries. And if they aren't trusted, who is? It strikes me as a tiny set of friendlies.


And just how much info. have they compiled to be used against anybody who might try to put them in check - ie Anton Scalia's online footprint must be a pathological nightmare. Time to play ball.
 
2013-09-06 08:08:47 PM  

skinink: It's pretty sad when your own government neither likes you or trusts you.


It's sadder that anyone ever thought the government did in the first place.
 
2013-09-06 08:11:39 PM  

Go Fornicate Without a Partner: Infernalist: This thread needs more drama queens freaking out.

Go back under your bridge.


Shouldn't you be out there arming yourself against the evil government with your fark brethren?
 
2013-09-06 08:12:30 PM  
FTA: ...the stories, simultaneously published on the front pages of the New York Times and Guardian, were "not news"

Fark did it first.
 
2013-09-06 08:12:37 PM  
I can imagine how horrible the NSA is feeling about having their most intimate secrets exposed and studied by faceless, unsympathetic, judgmental eyes. Being betrayed by a fellow countryman, someone who promised they would never violate a sacred oath of privacy. And now it's as if there's nowhere they can communicate in confidence.

I can only imagine how the NSA feels.
 
2013-09-06 08:18:27 PM  
Arthen
The NSA calls everyone they spy on "adversaries" explicitly. This includes you and me.

How do we know he was a terrorist? Well the bomb hit him, didn't it?
 
2013-09-06 08:19:55 PM  

Kit Fister: A Non Amos: If it wasn't for warfare, just think of what kinds of crazy awesome technology we could have by now

And because of it. Microwaves? Thank radar development. GPS? Military tech. Internet? DARPA. Nuclear power? Yep.

Military. R&d has brought us a LOT of tech.


As side effects. Think what we could accomplish if such problems were our primary objectives.
 
2013-09-06 08:24:16 PM  

A Non Amos: If it wasn't for warfare, just think of what kinds of crazy awesome technology we could have by now


Heh. Well done.
 
2013-09-06 08:25:05 PM  
Anyone else smell speggit o's while reading the comments in this thread...lol
 
2013-09-06 08:26:13 PM  

Go Fornicate Without a Partner: according to the NSA, the 'adversaries' are us.  So isn't this good news?


The NSA says it is "not news," so everyone go home.
 
2013-09-06 08:26:52 PM  

tbhouston: Anyone else smell speggit o's while reading the comments in this thread...lol


Cheetos. Lots of cheetos. And Mountain Dew.
 
2013-09-06 08:28:14 PM  

ladyfortuna: positronica: Another potential side effect of the NSA's behavior is the damage they've done to America's and the West's computer industry.  The newest revelations make it clear that NO American companies can be trusted to handle, transmit, or process sensitive data.  The NSA, by granting themselves the power to secretly compromise any company has thus placed every company under suspicion.  More and more system administrators across the internet are already saying that from now on, the only type of encryption that can be trusted is open-source software that has been heavily peer reviewed.  If you're a closed-source company that deals in products that handle sensitive data, than the NSA has very likely farked you over when it comes to our ability to make future sales.  On top of that, every network and system administrator now needs to second-guess all of the product and service advice he's worked off of for the last decade.  This is because the NSA revelations make it clear that not only were they trying to compromise software, but they were also trying to compromise individuals at all levels of the network industry... and now there's no way to know if that router, or that new service, or that new software package that an "expert" recommended for your company was recommended to you because it was the best for your situation, or because it was the best for NSA's desire to spy on you.

Ugh, I hadn't quite thought of it that way. It's entirely possible this could have a ripple effect on our entire economy, if foreign governments and businesses freak out about it. Good job, NSA...


Yeah.  I posted the below in June, and stand by it:

Currently, the US is the communications hub of the world.  Internet, cell, satellite... much of the worlds data goes through us, as pointed out in the NSA presentation.  And the US government is determined to take advantage of that, as pointed out in the very same NSA presentation.  The world's data flows through us, and what flows through us we are going to spy on.

So guess what?  The rest of the world just realized that they need to ensure their data doesn't get routed through us.  It's not a matter of trust, they KNOW what we are going to do with data that goes through the US.  We are going to use it to spy on them, we are very clear about that.

So in five, ten, twenty years from now... however long it takes... we will no longer be the world's communication hub.
 
2013-09-06 08:29:41 PM  
So, let me get this straight: The NSA's line is now that their entire security infrastructure is "security through security"?

How's that working out?
 
2013-09-06 08:30:17 PM  
images2.wikia.nocookie.net

What fun is it to have enemies if you can't toy with them?
 
2013-09-06 08:30:32 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Kit Fister: gun nuts who don't trust the government aren't so crazy now are we?

Yeah, right?
Are you going to shoot the government?
When? When they come for your guns, right?
Because you're sure not going to do it when they steal your data.
Hint: they don't need to use force to finish you off if they want to.

/Gun nuts who plan to shoot the government crack me up.


I agree. The point for me isn't to shoot the government. I just don't trust them. I own guns to have fun and for self defense. You assume gun nuts are all about taking on the feds. Most of them just want to be left alone.

What seems funny to me is that the more you want to be left alone and to stay out if harm's way the more attention you draw.

This is why I think the more "normal" you pretend to be, the less attention they pay to you.
 
2013-09-06 08:38:07 PM  

Mrbogey: Who are OUR enemies?

It's a very important question.


An equally important question is who does the NSA consider an enemy or a potential enemy? How is that defined?
 
2013-09-06 08:40:17 PM  
Much more transparency of the NSA is required.
 
2013-09-06 08:41:55 PM  

lostcat: lostcat: [upload.wikimedia.org image 158x272]

Great summer read, when I was 12.

Huh, I wanded into the wrong thread.

Carry on.


The strange thing is that it fits.
 
2013-09-06 08:45:35 PM  

SomeAmerican: So in five, ten, twenty years from now... however long it takes... we will no longer be the world's communication hub.


Yeah, but where would you put it?

Keeping in mind that I've been getting a lot of this second-hand:

* Europe's just as bad and possibly worse because they don't have to pretend that they're following the Constitution.
* China's been openly farking with their hardware AND using it for industrial espionage as well as governmental.  At least the NSA isn't forwarding all of your data to Google (that we know of) (yet) so that Google can steal your work.
* South America is a non-entity.
* Middle East and Africa are dictatorial shiatholes as well as incredibly backwards technologically.

It's the technical equivalent of "Both sides are bad, so vote Republican".
 
2013-09-06 08:46:19 PM  

SomeAmerican: Yeah. I posted the below in June, and stand by it:

Currently, the US is the communications hub of the world. Internet, cell, satellite... much of the worlds data goes through us, as pointed out in the NSA presentation. And the US government is determined to take advantage of that, as pointed out in the very same NSA presentation. The world's data flows through us, and what flows through us we are going to spy on.

So guess what? The rest of the world just realized that they need to ensure their data doesn't get routed through us. It's not a matter of trust, they KNOW what we are going to do with data that goes through the US. We are going to use it to spy on them, we are very clear about that.

So in five, ten, twenty years from now... however long it takes... we will no longer be the world's communication hub.


Same thing as is happening with GPS satellites.  Can't rely on the US, so other networks are going up.
 
2013-09-06 08:47:52 PM  

blahpers: Kit Fister: A Non Amos: If it wasn't for warfare, just think of what kinds of crazy awesome technology we could have by now

And because of it. Microwaves? Thank radar development. GPS? Military tech. Internet? DARPA. Nuclear power? Yep.

Military. R&d has brought us a LOT of tech.

As side effects. Think what we could accomplish if such problems were our primary objectives.


When mankind has effectively eliminated jealousy, rage, fear, sorrow, avarice, contempt, hate...then we might not need weapons of war.
 
2013-09-06 08:49:22 PM  

SomeAmerican: Yeah.  I posted the below in June, and stand by it:


Currently, the US is the communications hub of the world.  Internet, cell, satellite... much of the worlds data goes through us, as pointed out in the NSA presentation.  And the US government is determined to take advantage of that, as pointed out in the very same NSA presentation.  The world's data flows through us, and what flows through us we are going to spy on.

So guess what?  The rest of the world just realized that they need to ensure their data doesn't get routed through us.  It's not a matter of trust, they KNOW what we are going to do with data that goes through the US.  We are going to use it to spy on them, we are very clear about that.

So in five, ten, twenty years from now... however long it takes... we will no longer be the world's communication hub.

Unfortunately for you, you're forgetting about capitalism.  As long as we offer the best service at a competitive price, we'll continue to be the world's communication hub indefinitely.  Most companies don't have principles.  They have profit motives.
 
2013-09-06 08:58:04 PM  
I think "our" is pretty damn presumptuous.
 
2013-09-06 08:59:43 PM  

ronaprhys: Unfortunately for you, you're forgetting about capitalism.  As long as we offer the best service at a competitive price, we'll continue to be the world's communication hub indefinitely.  Most companies don't have principles.  They have profit motives.


And you're forgetting that all companies are run by human leaders, and those leaders often have things they'd like to keep to themselves.  If there's a way to keep law enforcement from finding out about their raging cocaine habit or the real reason for that last "business" trip to Thailand, they're going to do that instead, stockholders be damned.
 
2013-09-06 09:00:08 PM  

Kit Fister: gun nuts who don't trust the government aren't so crazy now are we?


No, that really hasn't changed any. Your gun is your blankey. A child's pacifier. You might feel safer, but only in the same way people 'feel safer' being made to take off their shoes in the airport. A weapon you're unwilling to use is worthless. And the moment you do, you're going to draw a degree of attention to yourself you are not prepared to deal with, and when that happens, you are going to stand _alone_. Like every other idiot who thought they could make a stand using force.
 
2013-09-06 09:01:44 PM  

ronaprhys: SomeAmerican: Yeah.  I posted the below in June, and stand by it:

Currently, the US is the communications hub of the world.  Internet, cell, satellite... much of the worlds data goes through us, as pointed out in the NSA presentation.  And the US government is determined to take advantage of that, as pointed out in the very same NSA presentation.  The world's data flows through us, and what flows through us we are going to spy on.

So guess what?  The rest of the world just realized that they need to ensure their data doesn't get routed through us.  It's not a matter of trust, they KNOW what we are going to do with data that goes through the US.  We are going to use it to spy on them, we are very clear about that.

So in five, ten, twenty years from now... however long it takes... we will no longer be the world's communication hub.

Unfortunately for you, you're forgetting about capitalism.  As long as we offer the best service at a competitive price, we'll continue to be the world's communication hub indefinitely.  Most companies don't have principles.  They have profit motives.


However, best service could be define, in the marketplace, as a service that does not llow the NSA to collect and decrypt your data...
 
2013-09-06 09:03:28 PM  
enemies like the american people who fund the NSA in the firdt place?

America is no safer post 911 because of the billions wasted on paranoia.
 
2013-09-06 09:04:25 PM  

T-Cubed: So in five, ten, twenty years from now... however long it takes... we will no longer be the world's communication hub.

Unfortunately for you, you're forgetting about capitalism. As long as we offer the best service at a competitive price, we'll continue to be the world's communication hub indefinitely. Most companies don't have principles. They have profit motives.

However, best service could be define, in the marketplace, as a service that does not llow the NSA to collect and decrypt your data...



best service also does not mean 'where something started'.  There are *plenty* of tech companies in other countries will to take up the slack.  And in fact, many of the companies that folks think of as 'American' are really multi-national already with no national loyalties.  They are already starting to get the stink eye from their non-US locales.
 
2013-09-06 09:04:57 PM  

ladyfortuna: Kit Fister: You rock, thank you. *hugs*


*hugs* and it's recurring.
 
2013-09-06 09:07:03 PM  

BullBearMS: uber humper: In other news, publishing companies American companies of all types in cahoots with the NSA will be terrible for their business.  What foreign company will want to buy American tech?

At this point, you'd have to be crazy to buy a router from Cisco, et al.

Really, that's good news. Since Corporate citizens have so much more sway over our government than real flesh and blood citizens do, a boycott of American internet firms on the part of others in the world who don't like the idea of being spied on can really have an effect here.

American corporations are already afraid of this.

Their fear needs to become a reality.


I agree.  Once they feel the pinch.  BUT, it will be hard for them to recover.  Once trust is gone, people won't believe that they are not leaving backdoors open.

Time for the Swiss to start building up their tech.
 
2013-09-06 09:12:26 PM  

MooseUpNorth: Kit Fister: gun nuts who don't trust the government aren't so crazy now are we?

No, that really hasn't changed any. Your gun is your blankey. A child's pacifier. You might feel safer, but only in the same way people 'feel safer' being made to take off their shoes in the airport. A weapon you're unwilling to use is worthless. And the moment you do, you're going to draw a degree of attention to yourself you are not prepared to deal with, and when that happens, you are going to stand _alone_. Like every other idiot who thought they could make a stand using force.


Eh the only thing a gun makes me feel safer from are crooks,.coyotes, and so on. But bottom line, you cannot honestly tell me that the activities of the NSA are in anyone's best interests but the government, and that coupled with the outcomes of occupy and other such movements, anything questioning the status quo is allowed to happen until it really starts to disrupt before its quietly shuffled off for the next circus.

Maybe I'm paranoid, but the only thing that seems to make sense is a state of living in which the vox populi are kept stirred up into a frenzy so they don't question the snake oil salesman. After all, nothing makes a conman more legit than a frenzy of people stirred up by his sales pitch in one side or the other and no one taking a closer look at him.
 
2013-09-06 09:18:10 PM  
The only thing more amusing than the freak outs by the drama queens is the notion that anyone here has a right to act surprised.

Be honest now: Did any one of you ever sincerely think that the government wasn't watching our activity on the internet?

Did you honestly think that the internet was this super anonymous system by which we could look at whatever we wanted, talk about whatever we wanted and, in some cases, act however we wanted...and the government wasn't watching and taking notes?
 
2013-09-06 09:19:51 PM  

Kit Fister: But bottom line, you cannot honestly tell me that the activities of the NSA are in anyone's best interests but the government,


Correct. If I were to suggest that, I would definitely be lying. Just drop the ITG act. Your gun doesn't mean a lick.
 
2013-09-06 09:23:22 PM  

Kit Fister: But bottom line, you cannot honestly tell me that the activities of the NSA are in anyone's best interests but the government,


I'll just add that I don't believe the NSA is acting in the best interests of anyone but the NSA, and ultimately, not even that. I have no reason to believe that any POTUS has ever had definitive knowledge of what the NSA has been up to.
 
2013-09-06 09:23:44 PM  

Raoul Eaton: Go Fornicate Without a Partner: according to the NSA, the 'adversaries' are us.  So isn't this good news?

The NSA says it is "not news," so everyone go home.


So, it's Fark.com, then.
 
2013-09-06 09:24:06 PM  
you people are farking retarded. you think the nsa cares about some farking farkers? HAHAHAHAHAHA
 
2013-09-06 09:24:54 PM  

Infernalist: The only thing more amusing than the freak outs by the drama queens is the notion that anyone here has a right to act surprised.

Be honest now: Did any one of you ever sincerely think that the government wasn't watching our activity on the internet?

Did you honestly think that the internet was this super anonymous system by which we could look at whatever we wanted, talk about whatever we wanted and, in some cases, act however we wanted...and the government wasn't watching and taking notes?


When it comes to public sites, nope, nothing posted is bound by any expectation of privacy due to being publicly disseminated. However, the contents of email, texts, direct conversations between two people NOT meant for public consumption? How is that not under the same protections as telephone communications? Wiretapping, whether digital or not, should be illegal without a warrent.

I don't understand how you can blow off such a massive thing because "its the internet". Do you support the government opening and censoring mail? Listening to your private phone conversations? And in the case of breaching private networks and breaking private codes for extended consumption, likewise I assume you're okay with someone randomly bugging your house and listening to everything you do?

Why should digital communications and privacy not be afforded the same protections as nonvirtual ones?
 
2013-09-06 09:26:26 PM  

MooseUpNorth: Kit Fister: gun nuts who don't trust the government aren't so crazy now are we?

No, that really hasn't changed any. Your gun is your blankey. A child's pacifier. You might feel safer, but only in the same way people 'feel safer' being made to take off their shoes in the airport. A weapon you're unwilling to use is worthless. And the moment you do, you're going to draw a degree of attention to yourself you are not prepared to deal with, and when that happens, you are going to stand _alone_. Like every other idiot who thought they could make a stand using force.


You're assuming "open battle against government forces".

That paradigm has been outdated since at least 1996.
 
2013-09-06 09:26:47 PM  
 
2013-09-06 09:27:10 PM  

DraconianTotalitarian: you people are farking retarded. you think the nsa cares about some farking farkers? HAHAHAHAHAHA


Oh look the NSA is here. Or one of their apologists. Whether or not they care about me, I still demand ththe natural right to privacy when my conversation is done in such a way as to exclude all but a single other party.
 
2013-09-06 09:27:59 PM  
Where are we to go now that they've gone too far?
 
2013-09-06 09:28:28 PM  

MooseUpNorth: I have no reason to believe that any POTUS has ever had definitive knowledge of what the NSA has been up to.


Aside from the fact that the NSA is part of the Executive Branch and it's director is appointed by the President?
 
2013-09-06 09:29:12 PM  

RDixon: Where are we to go now that they've gone too far?


I say we take over a small African or south American country.
 
2013-09-06 09:31:24 PM  

new_york_monty: 1984 was a cautionary tale, not a guidebook. I wish our government would stop trying to make it reality instead.


peacersvp.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-09-06 09:32:34 PM  
You people keep referring to "the Government" as being in control of this information. We have no idea who is actually in control, or posession, of this information. There are folks in the Intelligence Community whose views make a Teabagger look like Che Guevara. There are also many patriotic Americans in those circles. The potential for misuse, political blackmail or graymail, is astounding.

Yet nobody talks about that. J Edgar Hoover wasn't "the Government", yet he maintained his hold on power for a very long time by collecting dirt on anybody in a position to bring him down.

It might explain a lot about how crazy our Supreme Court and Congress have become.
 
2013-09-06 09:33:14 PM  

Kit Fister: Infernalist: The only thing more amusing than the freak outs by the drama queens is the notion that anyone here has a right to act surprised.

Be honest now: Did any one of you ever sincerely think that the government wasn't watching our activity on the internet?

Did you honestly think that the internet was this super anonymous system by which we could look at whatever we wanted, talk about whatever we wanted and, in some cases, act however we wanted...and the government wasn't watching and taking notes?

When it comes to public sites, nope, nothing posted is bound by any expectation of privacy due to being publicly disseminated. However, the contents of email, texts, direct conversations between two people NOT meant for public consumption? How is that not under the same protections as telephone communications? Wiretapping, whether digital or not, should be illegal without a warrent.

I don't understand how you can blow off such a massive thing because "its the internet". Do you support the government opening and censoring mail? Listening to your private phone conversations? And in the case of breaching private networks and breaking private codes for extended consumption, likewise I assume you're okay with someone randomly bugging your house and listening to everything you do?

Why should digital communications and privacy not be afforded the same protections as nonvirtual ones?


I'm not saying any of that.  All I'm saying is we've all known since achieving some level of mature understanding of the government that they stick their noses and ears and eyes into anything that they can.  That's what government does and everyone knows it and they 'should' expect it.

I'm commenting solely on the 'thisisanoutrage' posts that predominate in this thread.  Seriously?  Especially the ones who get so outraged that they start making comments about buying weapons (lol) and spouting 'my fark brethren!' speeches as if they're some Communist Party firebrand full of fury and outrage at some government atrocity.

Take a breath and get some perspective.
 
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