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(Military & Aerospace)   If you ever wanted to take a crack at building a MJOLNIR armor prototype, the US military is willing to start shoveling money in your general direction if your plans are good enough   (militaryaerospace.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, power armor, MacDill Air Force Base, thermoelectric cooling, operating environment, prototypes, sensors, special forces  
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4575 clicks; posted to Geek » on 06 Sep 2013 at 6:29 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-06 05:29:58 PM  
Talk to me when we get to Starship Troopers.
 
2013-09-06 06:04:25 PM  
Mjolnir?
static.comicvine.com
 
2013-09-06 06:36:28 PM  
Put a booth up at any cosplay event and you'll have hundreds of submissions

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-09-06 06:40:00 PM  

FrancoFile: Talk to me when we get to Starship Troopers.


Say what you will about the 3 live-action movies... Starship Troopers: Invasion was a great CGI movie.

www.scificool.com
 
2013-09-06 06:41:41 PM  
meowmeow armor?

laughingsquid.com
 
2013-09-06 06:44:27 PM  

WippitGuud: FrancoFile: Talk to me when we get to Starship Troopers.

Say what you will about the 3 live-action movies... Starship Troopers: Invasion was a great CGI movie.

[www.scificool.com image 640x352]


I thought it was pretty damn good too. Although some of the deaths were like a "fark you" to the characters. The CGI tits were pretty good too.
 
2013-09-06 06:45:53 PM  
Power Armor. Then for a fee/side quest, upgrade them to Adv Power Armor.
 
2013-09-06 06:47:49 PM  
Building it isn't a problem.

Giving it a power source smaller than a Volkswagen? That's the problem.
 
2013-09-06 07:04:04 PM  

netweavr: Building it isn't a problem.

Giving it a power source smaller than a Volkswagen? That's the problem.


What's the output of a betavoltaic cell?
 
2013-09-06 07:11:38 PM  
Oh god not is again.

Another distracted soldier program.
 
2013-09-06 07:11:56 PM  

skyotter: meowmeow armor?

[laughingsquid.com image 600x480]


www.fuckedinparkslope.com
 
2013-09-06 07:13:21 PM  
I'd much rather have this and  F-35s than youth that can't be classified as learning disabled.

Outstanding allocation of resources.
 
2013-09-06 07:14:36 PM  
Someone tell Troy Hurtubise.
 
2013-09-06 07:25:40 PM  

netweavr: Building it isn't a problem.

Giving it a power source smaller than a Volkswagen? That's the problem.


But The Matrix taught me that Humans can be used as batteries!

Or did they lie to me too?  Dammit!
 
2013-09-06 07:41:23 PM  
I'm no expert, but you know what's interesting? The mere fact that they're looking for a solicitation on this rather than routing through a research organ like DARPA means the DOD thinks that all of this is currently possible. They're not looking for new ideas here, they want someone to build the system and put it all together in one package.
 
2013-09-06 07:49:35 PM  

netweavr: Building it isn't a problem.

Giving it a power source smaller than a Volkswagen? That's the problem.


I don't know anything about man-portable air conditioning or powered armor, but a lot of those electronics packages have come a long way. You're probably looking at something with the computational power of a small tablet computer, and some of those have battery lives of 10-15hrs with a radio going and a bright LED screen. Throw those out of the mix (or at least use them intermittently) and you're looking at doubling or tripling that, and those use small lithium-ion battery packs. You're also probably able to cut out power hungry applications like decoding video or playing games.
 
2013-09-06 08:02:07 PM  

mrlewish: Oh god not is again.

Another distracted soldier program.


This sounds less like a battle-augmentation (like the Land Warrior or Future Force Warrior programs) and more of a survival/endurance suit. This is being requested by USSOCOM rather something like the Army, and as far as I know those units have a much greater need for information, navigation, communications, and the like rather than the ability to kill bad guys.
 
2013-09-06 08:08:36 PM  

Fubini: I'm no expert, but you know what's interesting? The mere fact that they're looking for a solicitation on this rather than routing through a research organ like DARPA means the DOD thinks that all of this is currently possible. They're not looking for new ideas here, they want someone to build the system and put it all together in one package.


Most civilians use each part of the system daily already. They just want someone to stick it all together.
 
2013-09-06 08:10:46 PM  

Phaeon: netweavr: Building it isn't a problem.

Giving it a power source smaller than a Volkswagen? That's the problem.

What's the output of a betavoltaic cell?


Mucrowatts, typically.
 
2013-09-06 08:11:21 PM  

Fubini: mrlewish: Oh god not is again.

Another distracted soldier program.

This sounds less like a battle-augmentation (like the Land Warrior or Future Force Warrior programs) and more of a survival/endurance suit. This is being requested by USSOCOM rather something like the Army, and as far as I know those units have a much greater need for information, navigation, communications, and the like rather than the ability to kill bad guys.


A google glass for a soldier is entirely doable.  A suit that better protects from harm would benefit from a jump in material sciences, like carbon areogels and nanotube weaves and improved ceramics.

A system to cool down the human body wearing all of that, while still being power efficient...that seems like the real tricky bit.  We have a hard time cooling down uninsulated humans, nevermind the ones exerting themselves while wrapped in a space age cocoon that may be airtight.

Throw in powered limbs, and you're cutting way to close to creating the smallest armored vehicle you can which, as a previous poster said, would work a lot better without the human being in it.

But an integrated, HUD with biometric data being shared throughout a unit, that would be supercool and the technology is rapidly approaching it being feasible.
 
2013-09-06 08:11:44 PM  

erewhon: Phaeon: netweavr: Building it isn't a problem.

Giving it a power source smaller than a Volkswagen? That's the problem.

What's the output of a betavoltaic cell?

Mucrowatts, typically.


Or, if you're not on an iphone with autocorrect off, microwatts.
 
2013-09-06 08:23:11 PM  

Esc7: A system to cool down the human body wearing all of that, while still being power efficient...that seems like the real tricky bit.  We have a hard time cooling down uninsulated humans, nevermind the ones exerting themselves while wrapped in a space age cocoon that may be airtight.


I really have no idea how they propose to do this, but my conception is a passive system. Something more like heat sinks to cool and insulated pockets to keep in heat, that can be configured by the wearer (or even by the computer) to achieve some degree of regulation. You could even have fluid that circulates based on temp. differences.

Esc7: Throw in powered limbs, and you're cutting way to close to creating the smallest armored vehicle you can which, as a previous poster said, would work a lot better without the human being in it.


I think they just keep throwing this out there to see if it ever actually sticks.
 
2013-09-06 08:24:08 PM  
In my opinion, wouldn't a better investment be spent making warfighters invisible or just removing them from the equation all together? Killing bad guys is pretty easy. The tricky part is killing and not taking casualties. There are strives being made into armor and protection and fancy suits which is cool, but having controlled drones do that for us would cut out a lot of problems, even if they introduce a lot more.
 
2013-09-06 08:26:23 PM  

Fubini: netweavr: Building it isn't a problem.

Giving it a power source smaller than a Volkswagen? That's the problem.

I don't know anything about man-portable air conditioning or powered armor, but a lot of those electronics packages have come a long way. You're probably looking at something with the computational power of a small tablet computer, and some of those have battery lives of 10-15hrs with a radio going and a bright LED screen. Throw those out of the mix (or at least use them intermittently) and you're looking at doubling or tripling that, and those use small lithium-ion battery packs. You're also probably able to cut out power hungry applications like decoding video or playing games.


Well a 40 cal/cm^2 flash suit has AC. I hear it still warm as all heck, though
 
2013-09-06 08:36:25 PM  

Fubini: Esc7: A system to cool down the human body wearing all of that, while still being power efficient...that seems like the real tricky bit.  We have a hard time cooling down uninsulated humans, nevermind the ones exerting themselves while wrapped in a space age cocoon that may be airtight.

I really have no idea how they propose to do this, but my conception is a passive system. Something more like heat sinks to cool and insulated pockets to keep in heat, that can be configured by the wearer (or even by the computer) to achieve some degree of regulation. You could even have fluid that circulates based on temp. differences.

Esc7: Throw in powered limbs, and you're cutting way to close to creating the smallest armored vehicle you can which, as a previous poster said, would work a lot better without the human being in it.

I think they just keep throwing this out there to see if it ever actually sticks.


I think keeping the user warm is irrelevant.  Give them some extra layers of fabric for cold weather climes and you're fine.

But passively cooling a human sounds really hard.  Are you going to slap a highly conductive heatsink to a man's groin in a war suit?  Run tubes of pumped water underneath the layers that are getting shot at?  Some of these cooling systems may make the suit more dangerous for the wearer than safer.

The best I can think of is a layer of really amazing wicking fabric that is extremely breathable underneath a semirigid standoff layer for the protective elements.  Then lots of strategic fans blowing out the heated air.

/have thought about this way too much
//what happens when you come up with sci fi game lore
 
2013-09-06 08:36:44 PM  
cdn2.tmcdn.org
 
2013-09-06 08:54:52 PM  

Fubini: I'm no expert, but you know what's interesting? The mere fact that they're looking for a solicitation on this rather than routing through a research organ like DARPA means the DOD thinks that all of this is currently possible. They're not looking for new ideas here, they want someone to build the system and put it all together in one package.


Well, it IS going through a 'research organ'. SORDAC.

You have to understand how this stuff works. DARPA doesn't do research, either. They have people that investigate what looks like promising lines of research, so I guess you'd call it metaresearch maybe. But then they contract out the actual work, usually through SBIR solicitations, occasionally through 'other funding' that doesn't get bid out. But they don't do the heavy lifting. It's all contracted.

Same with SORDAC. SORDAC bids out research. It's often slightly oddball, or not quite reachable. The idea is to stimulate thought along those lines, find out what can't quite be done and so on. Thus the open forum for a year where the bidders will publish white papers on the problems (and get paid for that, albeit sort of piddly, 20-40K sort of awards, usually).

If it's more of a directly engineerable thing, it'll go through an SBIR bid. AF and Navy usually dump their research-y stuff directly to SBIR, so you see things like "Design a satellite system capable of inflight refueling, winner will construct three satellites and demonstrate it in action",  SOCOM's SBIR bids are more like "Design us a plastic camera case that can accommodate an Olympus model x camera, be water proof to 20 feet, survive ten ruck drops and be operable in the dark, with gloves. If this can be found off the shelf commercially, this will constitute a design win under the terms of this contract"

For this particular bid/development contract, it's going to start off horrifyingly oddball, and get worse - if they look like they're getting close, Coffey will spring some other requirements - the ones about surviving parachute jumps, repeated impact (e.g. hitting a tree sideways at 10mph during a bad night jump), immersion in salt water, low heat signatures, unrealistic weights and bulk factors and the like. Also having to recharge from pretty much any power source you're likely to encounter, unreasonable run times with all systems up and the like.

It's sort of a 'how close can you get to this and why not' exercise. What they'd like is something like the illustration, but they'd take any of the subsystems they could actually get and use them in other projects.

At any rate, it's not the sort of thing you'd use every time even if you could get it - it's sort of a mission targeted thing. I am sitting here thinking about a bravo with this thing on, and chortling. "Ok, what farkin' button do I farkin' hit to get this OFF"
 
2013-09-06 08:56:19 PM  
No, no, no, goddammit. Mjolnir is NOT a name for armor. Mjolnir is a name for an orbital nuclear weapons platform.
 
2013-09-06 09:00:02 PM  
Oh, and I think there is supposed to be an add-on for chameleonics if it gets rolling.
 
2013-09-06 09:00:16 PM  
There are more ads on that site than there are in the weekly coupon packet that shows up in the mailbox.

Buy our chip... Now with FLANGES!
 
2013-09-06 09:09:45 PM  
Esc7:
I think keeping the user warm is irrelevant.  Give them some extra layers of fabric for cold weather climes and you're fine.

Depending on the environment, it can be a real bear. Sitting around with no fire in a brisk wind in the Alps in the winter is no picnic, extra layers of fabric or no. A quick pass through Ft Wainwright would convince you about the depths of misery to which the cold weather environment rotation can take you. However, most cooling systems can be rigged to heat pretty efficiently. It still takes a lot of power unless the suit insulates well. However, if your suit is really good at insulating, it's going to retain heat really well in the sun in, say, Riyadh. It's a pretty set of tradeoffs.

But passively cooling a human sounds really hard.  Are you going to slap a highly conductive heatsink to a man's groin in a war suit?  Run tubes of pumped water underneath the layers that are getting shot at?  Some of these cooling systems may make the suit more dangerous for the wearer than safer.


We bid thermionics against most of these things, but even with thermionics or quantum interference cooling the power is too high. However, you can use them to cool, heat, and generate power from body heat depending on the situation, even if they tend to be fragile. It's all a tradeoff.

You may have noted the requirement for the TALOS to provide oxygen, this is a veiled hint it'll be a dive suit as well, and/or you'll wear it in HALO. As well as being MOPP 4. The surprises on the bid sequence are going to be endless.
 
2013-09-06 09:15:46 PM  

Sugarbombs: There are more ads on that site than there are in the weekly coupon packet that shows up in the mailbox.

Buy our chip... Now with FLANGES!


In years gone by, had you bought a CPCI board from three of those guys,  odds are we had designed it for them.
 
2013-09-06 09:40:49 PM  
www.dvice.com

When somebody can fire a nuke from a power suit, I'd be impressed.

/probably the only good thing about that book
 
2013-09-06 09:48:58 PM  
the-lost-and-the-damned.664610.n2.nabble.com
 
2013-09-06 10:42:42 PM  

doglover: Fubini: I'm no expert, but you know what's interesting? The mere fact that they're looking for a solicitation on this rather than routing through a research organ like DARPA means the DOD thinks that all of this is currently possible. They're not looking for new ideas here, they want someone to build the system and put it all together in one package.

Most civilians use each part of the system daily already. They just want someone to stick it all together.


I think this stuff is somewhat common, they just want someone to connect the dots and put it together.
 
2013-09-06 10:42:56 PM  

netweavr: Building it isn't a problem.

Giving it a power source smaller than a Volkswagen? That's the problem.


Sort of.... this is the military we're talking about, they arent bound by pesky consumer safety laws.  There are lots of energy storage methods out there that are very energy dense, so long as you dont mind a little injury or death in the event of mishandling or manufacture defect.
 
2013-09-06 10:53:47 PM  

knight_on_the_rail: I think this stuff is somewhat common, they just want someone to connect the dots and put it together.


It is, individually.

Ballistic Armor: Cops
Cooling System: Eccentric Japanese Businessmen
HUD: Certain Gamers, Google Glass People
Radio/GPS: Every Phone Owner
 
2013-09-06 11:32:07 PM  
Really? None of these yet?
 
2013-09-06 11:33:34 PM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: Really? None of these yet?


Dammit fark, stop throwing away my images.
images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-09-06 11:37:35 PM  
Some old school shiat up in here.

/also needs moar Tron guy
 
2013-09-06 11:49:08 PM  
boards.420chan.org

/Obscure?
 
2013-09-06 11:50:35 PM  

knight_on_the_rail: doglover: Fubini: I'm no expert, but you know what's interesting? The mere fact that they're looking for a solicitation on this rather than routing through a research organ like DARPA means the DOD thinks that all of this is currently possible. They're not looking for new ideas here, they want someone to build the system and put it all together in one package.

Most civilians use each part of the system daily already. They just want someone to stick it all together.

I think this stuff is somewhat common, they just want someone to connect the dots and put it together.


They want a private company to combine everything into one unit, since the pieces are already out there.
 
2013-09-07 12:10:15 AM  
img1.ak.crunchyroll.com

Really? All these images and nothing from Fallout?

/Soooo excited for Fallout 4.
 
2013-09-07 12:29:49 AM  

Znuh: Really? All these images and nothing from Fallout?

/Soooo excited for Fallout 4.


Yeah, you're right.  I blame myself.
 
2013-09-07 12:56:55 AM  

blue_2501: Znuh: Really? All these images and nothing from Fallout?

/Soooo excited for Fallout 4.

Yeah, you're right.  I blame myself.


blue_2501: Znuh: Really? All these images and nothing from Fallout?

/Soooo excited for Fallout 4.

Yeah, you're right.  I blame myself.


Serious props / kudos / awesome for Starship Troopers. And for the other pics here - I can honestly say I was surprised; I haven't seen a lot of those.

/Totally overplaying Fallout 3 and NV as I type this
 
2013-09-07 01:25:41 AM  

Fubini: I'm no expert, but you know what's interesting? The mere fact that they're looking for a solicitation on this rather than routing through a research organ like DARPA means the DOD thinks that all of this is currently possible. They're not looking for new ideas here, they want someone to build the system and put it all together in one package.


Speaking as a Government contractor... no. An element of DARPA may think this is all possible, but that would be the business school graduate side, not the engineering side.

Mobility is all about one thing: weight. If you don't weigh a lot, you can travel farther, move faster, fight longer. Too much weight, and you surpass the ability for a human being to lug the thing around. It needs an engine at that point. And an engine requires fuel. And while you can keep uprating the engine as you add more weight, the amount of fuel you need to move that weight around increases faster than the capabilities you are adding.

There are certain "butter zones" for performance. 70 pounds, historically, has been the battle load of a soldier in the field. Beyond that, and up to about 800 pounds, a motorcycle or ATV makes a great platform. Between 1000 pounds, and you really need a 4 wheeled vehicle. A jeep, a humvee, etc. Slap armor on the puppy and you are in the personnel carrier range of a BMP or a Bradley. Get past 20 tons, and you might as well go whole hog and build a tank.

Why not use a legged motivator platform? Because they are full of fail. A bike, truck, or tank can take a lot of beating before they are completely immobilized. A walker needs only to take a bullet to a hydrolic line (or if it's electromotivated, a cable or actuator.) If you need mobility, use a helicopter. If you need to schlep something, use a road. If you are chasing people on foot, use people on foot.
 
2013-09-07 02:57:21 AM  

Phil Moskowitz: I'd much rather have this and  F-35s than youth that can't be classified as learning disabled.

Outstanding allocation of resources.


The true irony is we would have better weapons development if the kids were smarter.
 
2013-09-07 04:20:00 AM  

Nurglitch: [the-lost-and-the-damned.664610.n2.nabble.com image 850x911]


You might have something there when someone comes up with a way to make ceramite.
 
2013-09-07 05:48:57 AM  
Ceramic composites mixed with a micro titanium "scale" plating. It's getting the body armor to be mobile while effective against heavy flak/shrapnel.

Figuring out a micro power core though? that would be the multi-billion dollar ticket.


/and take a few trillion to even make possible

// then a few more to make feasible and affordable.
 
2013-09-07 08:23:35 AM  
Is not impressed...
wilmonfilm.blogs.starnewsonline.com
 
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