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(The New York Times)   Microsoft is from Mars and Nokia is from Venus. The unlikely tag is for this relationship ending without a lawsuit   (bits.blogs.nytimes.com) divider line 41
    More: Followup, Ballmer, Nokia, Microsoft, Mobile World Congress, Elop  
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625 clicks; posted to Business » on 05 Sep 2013 at 9:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



41 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-05 09:45:23 AM  
Risto Siilasmaa

Every time I see his name I think of the old guy in the wheelchair from Breaking Bad.
 
2013-09-05 09:46:09 AM  
I feel I know a decent amount when it comes to technology, who offers what services, etc...but I had no idea that Nokia had a mapping service.

For those who use it, how does it compare to what I regard at this ppint to be "gold standard," Google Maps?
 
2013-09-05 09:49:14 AM  
What unlikely tag?
 
2013-09-05 10:00:42 AM  

Endive Wombat: I feel I know a decent amount when it comes to technology, who offers what services, etc...but I had no idea that Nokia had a mapping service.

For those who use it, how does it compare to what I regard at this ppint to be "gold standard," Google Maps?


It's not bad, but I can't imagine what good it does them without a platform to push it on, unless they want to become a back end map provider.
 
2013-09-05 10:09:22 AM  

bsharitt: Endive Wombat: I feel I know a decent amount when it comes to technology, who offers what services, etc...but I had no idea that Nokia had a mapping service.

For those who use it, how does it compare to what I regard at this ppint to be "gold standard," Google Maps?

It's not bad, but I can't imagine what good it does them without a platform to push it on, unless they want to become a back end map provider.


Hell, Apple...who is a VERY innovative company with very deep pockets tried their hand at a mapping service and failed miserably.  To me as a consumer, I have no incentive to switch mapping services.  I use two - Google Maps/Nav for places that I do not know where I am going, because their routes are great, and WAZE is just running when I know where I am going so I can see where traffic and cops are.

Verizon has their VZ navigator which looks pretty, but at the end of the day, I am not shelling out, what???...$10 a month for a service that I can get from other providers for FREE!

Back to the topic at hand, I expected the article to discuss differences between cultures of both companies, not Nokia focusing on stupid shiat like their mapping service that I (and probably many others) have never heard of, and have no interest in using.
 
2013-09-05 10:13:17 AM  

Endive Wombat: I feel I know a decent amount when it comes to technology, who offers what services, etc...but I had no idea that Nokia had a mapping service.

For those who use it, how does it compare to what I regard at this ppint to be "gold standard," Google Maps?


It's a mixed bag. The location database isn't quite as large or up to date (the indoor map if my local mall shows a restaurant that has been closed a couple of years), and the routing can sometimes be a bit odd, but on the other hand you can preload maps of the state or country you are traveling in to the phone memory and use the maps and navigation completely offline, with only the satellite connection needed for location. This saves you from getting charged international roaming, or lets you navigate in rural areas with poor reception.
 
2013-09-05 10:18:03 AM  

thurstonxhowell: What unlikely tag?


Way to screw up a headline, admods.
 
2013-09-05 10:24:35 AM  

Endive Wombat: I feel I know a decent amount when it comes to technology, who offers what services, etc...but I had no idea that Nokia had a mapping service.

For those who use it, how does it compare to what I regard at this ppint to be "gold standard," Google Maps?


Its kind of sad that Google Maps is the "gold standard"

Yes its free, yes it does pretty good at getting you to point B if you know where you are going.

However its sucks as a navigation application. I used to use Nokia Maps, and Garmin Street Pilot XT on my s60 devices and both blew Google Maps out of the water. Both offer offline maps (not just caching of the current trip, true offline use). Google maps sucks balls for road trips. Ok, I am taking a 200 mile trip on vacation and need gas, with google maps I have to search for gas, figure out what gas station is actually along my route and doesnt require doubling back or going considerably off course just because its closer "as the crow flies". Once I have figured this out manually I now need to tell it to navigate there which will automatically stop my current route as it doesnt do waypoint navigation. Then once I have gotten gas I then have to manually restart the navigation to where I was going before i needed gas.

Where as Nokia or Garmin you just brought up Points of Interest, then by default it would show things along your current route, you select the gas station and then add as waypoint.

Dont get me wrong, I do actually like google maps. I use it quite frequently and its navigation is good. But it has some massive short comings.

I would kill for Garmin Street pilot for android. Unfortunately their exclusivity agreement with Asus when they made the garminphone rules that out. Instead we get the crappy bastard child NAVIGON. I want to get the Garmin HUD, but I will not be doing so as long as the only Android choice is the POS that is NAVIGON.
 
2013-09-05 10:28:56 AM  

Endive Wombat: I feel I know a decent amount when it comes to technology, who offers what services, etc...but I had no idea that Nokia had a mapping service.

For those who use it, how does it compare to what I regard at this ppint to be "gold standard," Google Maps?


Nokia purchased Navteq a few years back.
 
2013-09-05 10:31:42 AM  

skozlaw: Risto Siilasmaa

Every time I see his name I think of the old guy in the wheelchair from Breaking Bad.


i521.photobucket.com

Coincidentally this was the same face that I made when I heard the news of MS buying Nokia.
 
2013-09-05 10:35:25 AM  

logieal: skozlaw: Risto Siilasmaa

Every time I see his name I think of the old guy in the wheelchair from Breaking Bad.

[i521.photobucket.com image 250x190]

Coincidentally this was the same face that I made when I heard the news of MS buying Nokia.


I actually had the other feeling. It prevents Nokia from the same fate as RIM. A slow painful death.

Nokia makes some of the best hardware out there. They just dont know how to market correctly in the US or how to keep current with the OS.

While I am not a fan of windows phone right now, hopefully they can do great things with it.
 
2013-09-05 10:37:07 AM  

Endive Wombat: I feel I know a decent amount when it comes to technology, who offers what services, etc...but I had no idea that Nokia had a mapping service.

For those who use it, how does it compare to what I regard at this ppint to be "gold standard," Google Maps?


It's good and you can use it offline(like when you know traveling through Idaho or some shiat)
 
2013-09-05 10:45:06 AM  

Loki009: logieal: skozlaw: Risto Siilasmaa

Every time I see his name I think of the old guy in the wheelchair from Breaking Bad.

[i521.photobucket.com image 250x190]

Coincidentally this was the same face that I made when I heard the news of MS buying Nokia.

I actually had the other feeling. It prevents Nokia from the same fate as RIM. A slow painful death.

Nokia makes some of the best hardware out there. They just dont know how to market correctly in the US or how to keep current with the OS.

While I am not a fan of windows phone right now, hopefully they can do great things with it.


I'll give it another year http://business.financialpost.com/2013/09/05/survey-shows-weak-blackb e rry-sales-but-sale-report-drives-stock-higher/
I think the Lumia 520 and 521 will get it on the map, you just can't get a better phone for $99 off contract
 
2013-09-05 10:49:38 AM  

Loki009: Dont get me wrong, I do actually like google maps. I use it quite frequently and its navigation is good. But it has some massive short comings.


No doubt.  YEARS ago I purchased myself a stand alone Magellan GPS from Costco (prob 2006ish?) for about $120.  I LOVED it.  I could select what points of interest I wanted to see on my map, gas stations being the best POI, esp for long trips.  Butttt...as the DC metro area changed, construction became the norm, and all kinds of new roads were built and the existing roads were moved around a bit, the stand alone GPS quickly became outdated.  IIRC, Magellan's website wanted somewhere around $100 for the most recent update file for the maps.  I called their customer service and they confirmed that yes, it was $100 for the updated file that likely would be outdated again in 2-3 years.

I mean, then it was 2009 and I could have gotten myself a different brand or model that has free updates AND has live traffic info for somewhere between $120-$150.

My point is that yes, free maps lack features like POIs, but FARK Magellan in the ass for trying to charge me $100 to update a 3 year old GPS that is worth MAYBE $20.
 
2013-09-05 10:50:17 AM  

Loki009: I actually had the other feeling. It prevents Nokia from the same fate as RIM. A slow painful death.

Nokia makes some of the best hardware out there. They just dont know how to market correctly in the US or how to keep current with the OS.

While I am not a fan of windows phone right now, hopefully they can do great things with it.



True. But I do believe they were on the right path with the N9 and the new OS that it had. I would have put it on par with an iPhone 3Gs and was only going to get better. But as we now know, Elop just wanted to go back to MS and did everything he could to sink Nokia's in-house OS team.
 
2013-09-05 10:54:50 AM  
Don't worry, Uncle Fester will simply fire everyone at Nokia who poses a threat or questions his rule.
 
2013-09-05 10:54:59 AM  

Loki009: While I am not a fan of windows phone right now, hopefully they can do great things with it.


I was THISSSS close to buying a Windows Phone back in February this year, but ultimately screen size won.  I ended up with the Note 2.  I needed my phone to double as my GPS, as my car does not have a built in GPS, and I am likely never buying a stand alone GPS ever again.  I've got big hands and clumsy fingers, so screen size quickly became the most important aspect of my new phone.

Now, every phone on the market is comically small to me.  Yeah, I know many people see the Note 2 being comically large, but it works for me...LOVE IT!!!
 
2013-09-05 10:58:36 AM  

logieal: Loki009: I actually had the other feeling. It prevents Nokia from the same fate as RIM. A slow painful death.

Nokia makes some of the best hardware out there. They just dont know how to market correctly in the US or how to keep current with the OS.

While I am not a fan of windows phone right now, hopefully they can do great things with it.


True. But I do believe they were on the right path with the N9 and the new OS that it had. I would have put it on par with an iPhone 3Gs and was only going to get better. But as we now know, Elop just wanted to go back to MS and did everything he could to sink Nokia's in-house OS team.


Sorry just had to i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-05 11:05:21 AM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Sorry just had to i.imgur.com


I don't know if I've ever complained much about Nokia's hardware. It's almost universally solid.
I did have one a few years ago that was iffy, but it was a candybar and I didn't like it to begin with.

That said, their cameras are second to none. It's the Microsoft OS that I don't like.
 
2013-09-05 11:16:20 AM  

drjekel_mrhyde: logieal: Loki009: I actually had the other feeling. It prevents Nokia from the same fate as RIM. A slow painful death.

Nokia makes some of the best hardware out there. They just dont know how to market correctly in the US or how to keep current with the OS.

While I am not a fan of windows phone right now, hopefully they can do great things with it.


True. But I do believe they were on the right path with the N9 and the new OS that it had. I would have put it on par with an iPhone 3Gs and was only going to get better. But as we now know, Elop just wanted to go back to MS and did everything he could to sink Nokia's in-house OS team.

Sorry just had to [i.imgur.com image 820x500]


I have never complained about the hardware. I come from a long line of nokia phones.

The Nokia 6620 was my first "smart phone" back around 2004 if i recall correctly, since them I've had the 6820, 6650 E71, N95, N86.

The issue has always been sales and support in the US.

I have had the displeasure of having to deal with their repair service. It was horrible. In the US they dont do warranty service. They outsource to a company called Palco. With my dealings with them Ive had Palco return the phone as out of warranty (when it wasn't and serivce was already approved), send me a replacement phone in worse condition than I sent my broken phone to them in, and send my repaired phone to another customer half way across the country.

To Nokia the US market has always been one not worth the effort to commit to. Nokia has been openly hostile to the way the carriers do business, they are against the phone subsidy model because it cheapens the opinion of the phones to the customer, and they hate the branding and loss of control that the carriers demand. Until the iPhone changed this Nokia was happy doing very little business in the US. Unfortunately that was not a wise long term plan for them.
 
2013-09-05 11:17:13 AM  

logieal: drjekel_mrhyde: Sorry just had to i.imgur.com

I don't know if I've ever complained much about Nokia's hardware. It's almost universally solid.
I did have one a few years ago that was iffy, but it was a candybar and I didn't like it to begin with.

That said, their cameras are second to none. It's the Microsoft OS that I don't like.


Exactly, I want to get one of the new pureview phones, but the fact that there are 3 camera apps that you have to juggle makes me go F that.
 
2013-09-05 11:40:54 AM  

Loki009: I come from a long line of nokia phones.

The Nokia 6620 was my first "smart phone" back around 2004 if i recall correctly, since them I've had the 6820, 6650 E71, N95, N86.


You sound a lot like me. I've only had one non-Nokia phone since 1997 and that was a shiatty Motorola Nextel I had to use for work.

I had the 6800 then the 6820 then the E70. I really liked the butterfly design. Wasn't a big fan of the 6820... almost too small. Used the E70 for 3 or 4 years. Also had the N900, now use the N9 on a daily basis.

Almost all of them have been rock solid and tough as nails. And that's going all the way back to my 252 and 636. Still got those somewhere.
 
2013-09-05 11:48:30 AM  
Thinking about this, this was probably inevitable.  Basically nobody except Nokia is making Windows phones at this point; why not merge?  The only other real choice would be for Nokia to change operating systems yet again.  The fact Google bought Motorola also encouraged this, since Microsoft is in full "copy what other people are doing" mode (and always really has been).

Of course now Microsoft has somehow managed to become a full on hardware company.  They now make laptops, mice and keyboards, gaming consoles, and cell phones.  Frankly, hardware is a bad business to be in if you can avoid it.  Software has higher margins, and, more importantly, if a product bombs, you don't have tons of unsold inventory that cost a forture to manufacture that you need to blow out; the marginal manufacturing cost for a piece of software is very close to zero, so if it bombs you just move on.  Microsoft is finding this out with their Surface tablets.  Moving into hardware (uDraw GameTablet) is why THQ went bankrupt, for instance, as the Xbox and PS3 versions bombed, leaving THQ with tons of inventory they couldn't sell for anywhere close to the amount it cost them to make them.
 
2013-09-05 11:48:50 AM  

Loki009: I have had the displeasure of having to deal with their repair service. It was horrible.


That's the one thing I haven't had to deal with. So I don't have any opinion on that. But I have others echo the same sentiment.

To Nokia the US market has always been one not worth the effort to commit to. Nokia has been openly hostile to the way the carriers do business, they are against the phone subsidy model because it cheapens the opinion of the phones to the customer, and they hate the branding and loss of control that the carriers demand. Until the iPhone changed this Nokia was happy doing very little business in the US. Unfortunately that was not a wise long term plan for them.

Yeah, I would agree. I understand why, and applaud them for trying to stand up and make their devices worth something, but it's hard to argue that when a Motorola Razr was free or $50 on contract and a Nokia was $400. But then again, I'm the type who buys my phones outright.
I hate being under contract. And also my phones would last three times longer than anyone else's.
 
2013-09-05 11:57:03 AM  

Geotpf: Thinking about this, this was probably inevitable.  Basically nobody except Nokia is making Windows phones at this point; why not merge?  The only other real choice would be for Nokia to change operating systems yet again.  The fact Google bought Motorola also encouraged this, since Microsoft is in full "copy what other people are doing" mode (and always really has been).

Of course now Microsoft has somehow managed to become a full on hardware company.  They now make laptops, mice and keyboards, gaming consoles, and cell phones.  Frankly, hardware is a bad business to be in if you can avoid it.  Software has higher margins, and, more importantly, if a product bombs, you don't have tons of unsold inventory that cost a forture to manufacture that you need to blow out; the marginal manufacturing cost for a piece of software is very close to zero, so if it bombs you just move on.  Microsoft is finding this out with their Surface tablets.  Moving into hardware (uDraw GameTablet) is why THQ went bankrupt, for instance, as the Xbox and PS3 versions bombed, leaving THQ with tons of inventory they couldn't sell for anywhere close to the amount it cost them to make them.


You mean like how IOS7, PS4, and even Android biting Metro/Modern
 
2013-09-05 12:09:46 PM  

Geotpf: Thinking about this, this was probably inevitable. Basically nobody except Nokia is making Windows phones at this point; why not merge? The only other real choice would be for Nokia to change operating systems yet again. The fact Google bought Motorola also encouraged this, since Microsoft is in full "copy what other people are doing" mode (and always really has been).


Well, no one else but Samsung, HTC and Huawei (whoever they are) are making Windows phones.
 
2013-09-05 12:53:23 PM  

Geotpf: Software has higher margins, and, more importantly, if a product bombs, you don't have tons of unsold inventory that cost a forture to manufacture that you need to blow out; the marginal manufacturing cost for a piece of software is very close to zero, so if it bombs you just move on.  Microsoft is finding this out with their Surface tablets.


No kidding.  They took a $900M write off on unsold Surface tablets!
 
2013-09-05 01:02:06 PM  
My mom switched from WP8 to Android and is ready to go back.  When I was on WP it was pretty darn slick and easy to use.  The calendar was by far better and integration with social networking was worlds better.  But people that have never touched a device will still bash it because it's made by MS.
 
2013-09-05 01:16:24 PM  
My Nokia 720 approves of this.

The app market is awful-to-non-exsistant.

Besides that, the OS still runs smooth 2 years after I got it, IE is still awesome as a browser and it still plays Netflix. I'm happy.

/oh and it does calls and stuff\
//whatever
 
2013-09-05 02:35:32 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: Geotpf: Thinking about this, this was probably inevitable. Basically nobody except Nokia is making Windows phones at this point; why not merge? The only other real choice would be for Nokia to change operating systems yet again. The fact Google bought Motorola also encouraged this, since Microsoft is in full "copy what other people are doing" mode (and always really has been).

Well, no one else but Samsung, HTC and Huawei (whoever they are) are making Windows phones.


Yeah, but not in large quantities.  The vast majority of Windows 8 phones sold are made by Nokia.
 
2013-09-05 02:38:43 PM  
Relationship ending without a lawsuit? I dunno, I figure the shareholders will wait for Voltron-of-suck to be formed before suing.
 
2013-09-05 03:32:32 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-05 03:33:14 PM  
lol - wrong thread.  :)
 
2013-09-05 03:52:33 PM  

Bob The Nob: lol - wrong thread.  :)


You owe us a link to the right thread...
 
2013-09-05 04:40:59 PM  
Hell can I be a forker?
 
2013-09-05 07:13:07 PM  
Microsoft is from Mars and Nokia is from Venus. The unlikely tag is for this relationship ending without a lawsuit ....
And you can stick Windows 8 and the Windows phone in Uranus.
 
2013-09-05 08:00:05 PM  

TNel: My mom switched from WP8 to Android and is ready to go back.  When I was on WP it was pretty darn slick and easy to use.  The calendar was by far better and integration with social networking was worlds better.  But people that have never touched a device will still bash it because it's made by MS.


macdaddy357: Microsoft is from Mars and Nokia is from Venus. The unlikely tag is for this relationship ending without a lawsuit ....
And you can stick Windows 8 and the Windows phone in Uranus.


Point proven.
 
2013-09-05 08:36:42 PM  
This news is not really 'News'. MS has a long storied history of buying their way into a market. Glad to see that the more things change the more they stay the same.

Are they just buying a H/W maker or are they trying to buy themselves an Apple? The former is no problem but the latter requires more commitment than just buying a division. MS would need to also buy a new corporate culture at the very least. They would have to buy vertical integration. They would have to buy a transporter to put Nokia in one campus with the rest of MS. And, they would need to buy a time machine so they could rewind the clock a decade or two to allow time for the parts to come together and work smoothly.

Previous acquisitions were usually of the 'My way or the highway' variety. Nokia's designers and engineers will need to be cultivated and allowed time and space to do their thing. Innovation requires more time than the 90 days in a fiscal quarter. When MS had a lock on PCs, yes. When there are several of competitors ready to turn on a dime or that are already working on a radical new product, no. You can't just buy your way into that. I suppose that's the fundamental issue. MS has never had to learn how to compete.
 
2013-09-05 08:43:56 PM  
F*ck that ratbastard Elop. He's a traitor.
 
2013-09-05 10:15:22 PM  
bsharitt:
It's not bad, but I can't imagine what good it does them without a platform to push it on, unless they want to become a back end map provider.

Like for Garmin, MapQuest or Sirius for example?
 
2013-09-06 06:20:31 AM  

Kittypie070: F*ck that ratbastard Elop. He's a traitor.


Haista paskaa....

How's that exactly?
Nokia Chairman Jorma Ollila chose Elop (then Microsoft COO) to be the new CEO of Nokia. It was always in Ollila's plans that Nokia and MSFT would be linked...if you don't like Nokia and MSFT being together, blame Ollila, not Elop.
Prior CEO Kallasvuo made colossal f*ck-ups (no touch screens, crappy own OS) and only under Elop did Nokia begin to produce decent phones again with a competitive OS.
 
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